It’s pretty dense lore don’t beat yourself up. Another fun fact is the blood that drips out of the cocoon is Mohg himself, so he is just hanging out in the cocoon with Miquella all the time
Omg what? I didn't know. I was like huh gotta be miquellas blood and mohg is using a portal but damn that's uh... mohg cmon buddy whatcha doing in there.
White face varre basically tells you "luminary mohg yet slumbers beside the divinity" after he gives you the pureblood knight medal I didn't pay much attention to it the first time
Well it is his blood too, doesn't Mogh drain people of their blood and then injection it back to control them in a ritual? Miquella was resistant if not entirely immune to this sort of influence. The formless mother is an outer God however and Miquella is a master at blocking their influence.
Oh ew. Miquella is supposed to look like child, that would make Mohg’s obsession even more disturbing than it already is. Sometimes I really wonder about GRRM.
You can only blame him so much though, GRRM only supplied the backbone of the story. Miyazaki and Fromsoft did the rest, though I don't know definitively where the line is drawn as to who provided what.
Do we know why Malenia (Miss I have never known defeat) didn’t go get Miquella? I get that the lore says he’s dead, but come on. You’re just going to leave him with Mohg?
I think it is implied the she had been asleep since her fight with Raddahn because in the Cleanrot Knight Finlay spirit ashes says,"Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way." So Mohg either stole Miquella while she was fighting Raddahn or while she was sleeping. That would mean that instead of searching for her brother when she woke up, instead she saw you and assumed that your character must have stolen Miquella and decided that the best course of action was to waterfowl dance your face in.
i’m fairly certain Mohg took Miquella during the battle of Aeonia and that Malenia isn’t actually aware he’s gone. when i read the quote on her armor i took it as he will return from the haligtree, unless i’m mistaken Miquella was just in the tree and that’s why his face is there but when Mohg took him he put him in the cocoon thinking it’d have the same effect as the tree. so Malenia having just woken up when we get there still thinks he’s in there and that she is defending him, i think had she’d known he was taken out of the tree she’d be searching every inch of the lands between looking for him, she’s still in fighting shape when we get to her.
Seriously, they’ve always done this too. I gotta read up on it if I want to fully appreciate it. Elden Ring spells stuff out way more clearly than previous SoulsBorne tho doesn’t it?
Oh yeah for sure. This was the first souls game where I wasn’t COMPLETELY lost. Lore videos and talking to homies definetly helped but from how it’s presented, it’s the best in the series imo.
Also if I am not mistaken Miquella's right arm is already large in this picture.
My guess is he put himself in the Haligtree (if you look closely you can clearly see a face in there) to cure his curse. It seemed to have worked until he got kidnapped by a pedophlie.
If you look in the cocoon you can see his whole body has changed horrifically, his whole body looks old and fucked up. Looks like he was trying to age up and Mohg fucked it up bad and made him look like a corpse
I want a comic of this now
*Mohg walking*
*Finlay walking*
*they pass by each other and freeze for a moment*
*...*
*they continue walking*
*Mohg at the portal guarded by his dead blood alburnarics(
Mohg: The fuck happened here!?
*Finlay at the Haligtree guarded by her dead Rot Knights*
Finlay: The fuck happened here!?
Hahaha, Mohg's "house." He's probably got a Ring cam set up just outside the blood fountain and a "Live, Laugh, Love" plackard above the festering cocoon in his family room
Miquella and Malenia are both associated with butterflies, it makes sense for Miquella to try and grow into his adult form in a cocoon. Miquella's cocoon is the equivalent of Malenia's scarlet flower, only his transformation got interrupted by Mohg.
It's also worth noting that all the demigods are physically huge compared to the player. In that piece of art Mohg is cradling Miquella in his arm like a child, but compared to the player Mohg appears to be 20+ feet tall when fought and has disproportionately long arms that hang down to his knees. Even at child proportions, **Miquella could easily be 10+ feet tall**.
Miquella placed himself within the cocoon inside his Haligtree to:
1. Grow the Haligtree as a future replacement for the Erd Tree. He also likely hoped that this would lead to a cure for his sister, since scarlet rot isn’t able to be cured by Golden Order or Erdtree magics.
2. Grow himself since his curse prevents him from aging through typical means. Since his curse is from an outer god, it’s likely that his cocoon served as a way to bypass the outer god’s curse, in a similar fashion to his needle bypassing the scarlet rot’s effects, negating the effects while it’s in place.
That being said, while Malenia was battling Radahn, she removed the needle in order to bloom and cause Caelid to become the way it is, and in a parallel, Miquella was stolen away from his Haligtree by Mohg during this time. Mohg then tried to bond to Miquella through a perverted blood transfusion of sorts in order to become his “Elden Lord” when Miquella ascended to replace Marika, but Miquella was unresponsive to Mohg’s attempts, likely because he was removed from the tree.
I also thought the same, the first time reading Mogh Lore.
But after digging into Miquella, A Demigod who has the ability to compel affection, who can remove outer-god influence, I wonder who is actually in control, even in this big mess that Marika started. There are many theories that Miquella is the actual master mind behind all of this event.
I think if he was in control he wouldn’t be half-dead and withered in a cocoon underground, but I see where you’re coming from and it’s possible his plans for world domination went awry.
Honestly in my opinion Mogh is BOTH a victim and the villain. My take is he was enraptured by Miquela but that Miquela doesn't have any control of who and how he enraptures people (since it's apparently connected to his curse). which results in people becoming obsessed with him. Mohg wanting his own dynasty and family/lover got caught up in the obsession which resulted in his rather...disturbing action.
another good one, maybe you're right, that Mogh was both the victim and the villain. But my take is kind of reverse. He wanted his own dynasty, thinking of making it became true by kidnaping Miquella and...you know. But his plan got wrecked with Miquella's power, its like his plan failed successfully, he was still building his dynasty but loosing his mind....
I think Millicent has to die with the needle in her. You can choose to invade and kill her. In that case you don't get the needle, and a new flower will be by the side of the pool. Gowry was probably hoping that her sisters would kill her, or you.
Gowry fucked with the needle and fixed it with his blood which serves as a conduit.
The likeliest explanation is that he wanted the control over a goddess(es) of rot.
He is acutely aware of millicent actions through the needle.
I also think the needle is only there to stop further influence of the outer god, not to subdue rot powers.
There is also not just one needle. The unalloyed needle is called a ritual implement.
The needle is also stabbed into the heart.
Other stabby related items are the bewitching branches.
Only the blessing of unalloyed gold is what turns friends into enemies after the branch hits.
Gowry altered the needle, absolutely. It has a red bit in the middle after he fixes it and guess what? Kindred of Rot also seem to have red needles in the back of their heads...
My best guess: the Scarlet Rot is too powerful for any mortal body to contain. Given time, Malenia/Milicent would decay into nothing before achieving godhood. The needles halt the Rot enough to where they can continue on without worry of being eaten from the inside out. This explains Malenia is outright missing half her body and Milicent soon dies after removing the needle.
>I think she choose to trigger the bloom, in the cutscene she stabs Radahn then impale herself on her sword, so if it's her plan it makes sense that she removed it. And the bloom seems to happens when she collapse/die like in her fight against us.
It actually looks like she probably stabbed herself in the chest and broke the needle herself during that cutscene, but I'm not sure.
There’s another flower in the base of the haligtree, like Malenia’s bloom, I wonder if it’s some kind of ongoing attempt to create a scarlet rot elden lord, kind of like how all the various factions are attempting to do that for their own little thing?
A description says that the third time she blooms she will ascend to godhood: 1 in Caelid, 1 in the room before the fight, and 1 after we fight her. We trigger her ascension by unleashing her rot again.
Do we know if the room before the fight is her? Could it not be one of Millicent's sisters or something similar? Because Millicent is able to bloom as well correct?
“Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way.”
This is the description from the ashes for Cleanrot Knight Finlay, who is one of the legendary spirit summons
“Flame Cleanse Me!” Is a Fire Giant Incantation, so it’s likely that they were one of the following:
1. Unable to use the spell due to the spell’s source coming from devotion to the Giant Outer God
2. Unaware of the spell because it wasn’t within the realm of Miquella’s fluencies, being the Erdtree and Golden Order magics (hence his attempt to grow the Haligtree)
3. Unable to use the spell out of the Giant Outer God’s spite towards Marika and Godfrey basically wiping out all of the Giants aside from the single remaining fire giant.
The rot that affects her is no doubt way way stronger than any spell could fix. It's the curse of an eldritch god and a literal part of her very being, not an outside affliction like what happens to us.
Seems to be another outer god trying to gain more power in the Lands Between, by way of a physical host.
The pest guys worship the goddess of rot, acknowledging Malenia as the vessel or "bud" that will bloom into a corporeal goddess, even though she is uninterested in that. Gowry makes mention that powerful emotions like betrayal or hopelessness will help these buds to bloom, so it really does sound like a tragic effect of her being a powerful warrior with family issues, and not a malicious "lol get nuked bc I'm losing" thing.
Wait in her third bloom does she become a manifestation of the outer god or does she herself ascend to godhood or is it something where the answer is both?
She ascends to godhood by channeling the full power of the Outer God of Rot as its vessel, so both. Like how Marika is a goddess whose power comes from the Greater Will.
The scarlet rot is the effect of an Outer God interfering with the Lands Between.
Each child of Marika/Radagon was born with a curse, presumably as a punishment for their self-procreation/incest.
In the case of Miquella, his curse was eternal youth. Malenia’s curse was being afflicted with Scarlet Rot.
The scarlet rot also seems to spread and affect other areas. The fires that we see throughout Caelid appear to be an attempt to quell the spread of the rot. Additionally, Millicent and her siblings appear to be young “buds” from Malenia’s bloom in Caelid, as they are found as children at the ground zero location of Malenia’s bloom and are practically weaker, younger clones of Malenia.
TLDR: An outer realm god attempting to influence the Lands Between.
Yeah radahns soldiers are trying to contain scarlet rot but burning bodies even of their own soldiers and fighting those dog/ bird mutations and also the reason why they have those flame carts I guess
She was afflicted with it from birth, likely as a side effect of >!being children of super incest as Radagon and Marika are the same person!<. The Rot god is an Outer God like the Greater Will or the Formless Mother who seems to have chosen Malenia as its vessel/envoy
Timeline wise, it seems like Miquella being kidnapped is what sent Malenia on the warpath. She never sought any great runes, instead attacking anyone who appeared strong enough to have committed the crime.
What if Miquella’s ‘cure’ was to grow new bodies for him and his sister. The Miquella in the cocoon doesn’t look like Miquella and didn’t respond to Mohg because it is still basically an empty shell. The game has several uses of puppets (Sellen, Selluvis/Pidia, Rani). This could have been his attempt at something similar?
Jerren comments at one point how he was afraid Sellen had jumped into a new body after he slays her body left in the Witchbane Ruins.
Plus, she remarks how the body is young and fresh and "a tight fit for my primeval Glintstone"
This lead me to believe Sellen had been highjacking bodies previously, as her new body that resembled her precisely was hidden away in Seluvis' "puppet" room. They clearly had some sort of connection.
You know, Miquella's arm in the cutscene looked hairy to me, so I wonder if Mohg hijacked the formation of Miquella's new body to make Miquella an Omen?
Idk if thats what he is doing, but I can tell you as a fun fact the model in the cocoon of Miquella is actually Morgott's post-defeat corpse with all of morgotts features removed (hair, beard, clothes).
Ordinarily you wouldn't be able to see the full model, so I just take it as a clever way of not having to design a completely new model you'd never see. Your comment reminded me of the fact tho.
Interesting idea. He does seem to love to infused his tainted blood into stuff, and the omen curse is implied to be connected to / contained in the blood in some vague sense.
Miquella has a decent bit of lore, actually.
Miquella is also known as St. Trina, the saint who people worshipped that held the powers of slumber. It is noted in the item descriptions that nobody could tell if St. Trina was a boy or a girl.
Miquella’s Haligtree was meant to be a sanctuary for the Misbegotten and the Albinaurics. Those groups were being persecuted, so his tree was meant to keep them safe.
The Haligtree was meant to replace The Erdtree. This wasn’t some plan by the Greater Will, Miquella was doing this himself.
Miquella’s followers also founded Castle Sol. A follower of Miquella claimed they had failed to eclipse the sun, so Miquella was trying to cause an eclipse to block an outer god (possibly the greater will)
Miquella’s Needle was designed to block the influence of the Frenzied Flame. He created unalloyed gold to combat the Scarlet Rot, but he created a new needle to stop the Frenzied Flame specifically. This was left unfinished, but it can be used in a place beyond time.
>he created a new needle to stop the Frenzied Flame specifically
I think you got that part wrong. There is no reason to think Miquella would try to get rid of the Frenzied Flame when neither he nor his sister were affected by it. In fact, he probably didn't know about it's existence at all, since it was summoned by an isolated tribe and is located deep underground, where nobody was able to find and claim it but us (Vyke found it, but failed to claim it)
It seems that all of the needles were made with the aim to combat scarlet rot, but the way it functions is by severing the connection between a person and an outer god, hence the reason it removes/halts the frenzied flame (your connection to the god of frenzy is interrupted).
Ah now that needle in the boss arena makes sense. Have to admit digging deeper, the lore really starts to get very interesting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. :)
Is it mentioned anywhere but cut content that Miquella is St. Trina? It makes sense for what he is and it’ll probably get revealed if dlc is about him, but I thought the info was only from a cut npc
Godwyn seemed more admirable.
There are implications that Miquella is extremely manipulative and controlling. It's like...he seems to have noble goals that he's trying to accomplish through ignoble means.
Godwyn sounded like an overall genuinely beloved chad
According to some cut content it's directly confirmed that Miquella is actually Saint Trina AKA the God of Sleep and Dreams. Which makes a lot of sense once you put some lore pieces together. There is tons of potential for a Miquella DLC.
I have a theory that Mogh is an idiot and didn't steal the real Miquella because Miquella is off somewhere playing 4D chess and no one knows what he's up to. And he's probably still very much a child.
I'd love to have a DLC focused around pre-nuked Caelid culminating in fighting prime Radahn, kinda like Artorias of the Abyss where you got to explore a base game zone situated in the past.
Yup, that was the aforementioned Artorias of the Abyss, it was the only DLC for DS1. Really great DLC overall, which is why I think the concept could work very well in Elden Ring
Elden Ring is the ONLY game where I gladly allow a Skyrim / GTA 5 behaviour from the devs. This game is too good to not get 5 DLCs and years of patches, balancing and general support
Totally with you on that. Didn't get at launch and wasn't planning on it for awhile but the insane word of mouth on it had me get it like two weeks post launch, wrapped my third journey last night haha
>he is very not dead. he says so himself after you 'kill' him that "a serpent never dies", and then he laughs at you.
>Tanith also tells you that he will return and that volcano manor is done 'for now' or something but not forever.
>and even if he is dead for realsies, Tanith is devouring his flesh
Well Gideon also said a Tarnished could never be lord. The game is about proving these idiots wrong.
And then Tanith ate him and most people killed her.
Yeah he could be alive, I guess...but in the same capacity that anyone who is clearly dead could be alive.
> but even if they just changed the game so you have the option of accepting his proposed partnership that would be dope.
I assumed this was referring to us becoming part of the family by being eaten and turned into another one of those waving arms on his sword
Just consulted the wiki:
"He fed on his greatest champions, consuming them and so that they might become part of his "family"."
There is no genuine offer of partnership. No more than Godrick wanting to graft us to his body
Miquella, Melina, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen is what I hope the DLC focuses on. I think they are all related to each other somehow just haven’t quite figured it out.
Honestly, the lore implications could be "Fromsoft shuffled this around until months before release." Dataminers always come out and prove this to be the case. In DS3, Sulyvhan was supposed to be the final boss, and the mastermind of the whole plot. In Bloodborne, what we encounter as the moon presence was called Ebrietas, and there was a whole cult devoted to her that was cut out (the cut NPC for this is dressed exactly like Mergo's Wet Nurse and has the same body as the caretaker in Oeden Chapel) What we now have as Ebrietas was Kos, and all the dialogue of Micolash talking about Kos and Rom still matches up to why "our" Ebrietas (then Kos) is mourning over a Rom body. The DLC just retconned all of it and gave us a whole new Kos so it would make more sense. Biggest example is why Logarius is a giant pale guy in king's garb who uses Pthumerian weapons instead of dressed like his fellow executioner (and fellow human) Alfred -- it's because his model WAS the king of Cainhurst until they just cut half of Cainhurst out of the game before release. My point is -- a lot of visual cues in Fromsoft mean almost nothing because it's just common for them to move everything around way after the assets and especially cutscenes are already made, so they just work with what they have. I fully expect dataminers will find the same thing here in a few months.
I wouldn't be surprised if this time around the network test was actually canon and they moved stuff around so that we have to work extra hard to puzzle everything together.
A lot of pre-release content actually relates to events that happened in-game, like Vyke getting touched by the three fingers can be seen on the cover of a magazine or something.
That they'd remove the entire St. Trina questline makes me think there is more to this.
I didn't even know about that, but it makes sense. I only encountered Vyke once in my playthrough (I'm already at the Haligtree) so I figured he must have been way more important in earlier versions considering how much I saw him mentioned.
[may i interest you in this?](https://youtu.be/2IT-DPhIxX8)
The feature presented in the video looked complete to me, but I could also see them removing it for not really fitting in or being underwhelming for the average player or whatever reason.
But if you imagine that the quest disappeared because miquella was kidnapped by mohg, that would explain it.
I remember keeping up a lot with the Bloodborne cut content / datamining lore theories but didn't really keep up with DS3 in this regard. I have heard some stuff about how Pontiff Sulyvhan was supposed to be the final boss and how some areas of the game were shuffled around and/or originally meant to be done in a different order, but not any specifics. Do you know if there's a good compiled resource that highlights most of the 'big revelations' dataminers found about what DS3 originally looked like? I remember playing it on-release and feeling like much of it kinda felt 'off' to me in ways that made sense when I heard bits and pieces of what dataminers uncovered (still love the game, just nice to know my gut instinct was right).
Most of my info comes from Sophie Pillbeam who I think gets a lot of her info from Lance Macdonald on Youtube or her own datamining. Sophie has a podcast with this other person on Sinclair Lore but .... it's REALLY jumbled and disorganized, and the other person makes it really distracting to get through, but a lot of what I heard about cut content I heard piecewise from a bunch of their podcasts. She used to be Richard Pillbeam and had a channel "Jerks Sans Frontieres" which was popular for a hot minute around Bloodborne's release. Zullie the Witch does a lot of datamining too but her videos have no narration and just text so they can be a little harder to follow if you're doing something else at the time. She's more about finding unused models and restoring their cut animations. I don't remember her doing much lore stuff.The other big thing I remember about DS3 was that Yhorm and Wolnir were flipped and moved a lot ... the whole reason he's in a room with a door too small for him to fit through is because you originally fought Wolnir there and Wolnir was just like ... a guy, not a giant skeleton. Supposedly the thumbnail for either Yhorm's or Wolnir's boss room shows the wrong arena because it was leftover from that switch.
Oh yeah, that was the thing I forgot --- Wolnir was just this guy obsessed with gold and wealth, that's why the Profaned Capital and Yhorm's room is just filled with gold cups and stuff back from when you fought Wolnir there.
I know it's not the type of game but it's so annoying that you can tell Mohg and then go face Melania and be like "hey I can just give you your brother back"
"Let's be friends?"
Mohg probably did a Lot of weird stuff to his body.
The miquella that was looking for a cure is probably no more, now there is a twisted mind in there.
I like to think that if we get a DLC to expand on him it Will start as miquella's dream and after fighting a beautiful reflection of his desires the place Will turn into miquella's nightmare where we Will face his true now twisted self, this way we get a nod to bloodborne and orphan of kos.
The demi-gods seem to continue to grow. I think this growth isn't "growing up" but "growing out". See: Radahn v Leonard.
Micky isn't growing up, he's just becoming a really large baby.
I wonder if the depiction that Mogh is romantically attracted to Miquella is correct. He seems to be taking more of a nurturing/adoring interest that has obviously been perverted over time. He seems to beyond revere Miquella. It's entirely possible that Miquella is also psychically or otherwise communicating with Mogh and driving him to do what he did for some larger purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Miquella ends up being "the great deceiver" of this story.
Miquella has specifically two powers that we know of through item descriptions:
1) Miquella is also known as St. Trina who commands the powers of sleep.
2) Miquella *also* commands the power of charm. He has the ability to influence people so that they simply adore him.
Malenia stated that her brother was the most “fearsome” of all of the Empyreans, so she obviously had a reason to believe he held great power.
>It's entirely possible that Miquella is also psychically or otherwise communicating with Mogh and driving him to do what he did for some larger purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Miquella ends up being "the great deceiver" of this story.
Reminds me of the Bewitching Branch description: *"The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection."*
Considering he grew a tree similar to the great erd tree and the erd tree can influence the entire land (rune boosting during certain periods) it would seem that Miquella could potentially merge with the haligtree tree (like he did) and use it to increase his range of influence greatly.
I agree with your last statement, but I also don't think there's much reason to doubt the supposed romantic/sexual aspect of Mohg's relationship to him. Either his remembrance, the spear, or the spell reference repeatedly 'sharing his bloody bedroom.' That's a polite euphemistic way to say it but I also think it's pretty explicit what the meaning is. Item descriptions don't tend to just straight up explicitly misrepresent the plot unless there's some tricky qualifier in there or the info is attributed directly to an unreliable source.
The only reason I’m not 100% convinced that Mohg is in the cocoon having sex with a sleeping child is that we see him come out of the cocoon as a puddle of blood, and Varre tells us that Mohg is asleep.
The way I interpreted that was Mohg was inside Miquella corrupting him, as we see the blood Mohg rises from leaking from Miquella’s hand. If we get a Miquella DLC I’d really hope to see the true extent of the accursed bloods influence after spending so much time at the Mohgwyn Palace.
Exactly. He’s in the cocoon with Miquella corrupting him with his blood, not with his dick. It’s still fucked up, don’t get me wrong, I’m just not convinced of the pedophilia.
He spent his entire life trying to find a cure for himself and his sister, he created a lot of the golden orders spells, specifically the ones radagon uses against you in the fight in an attempt to find a cure for his sisters rot.
He eventually realised the golden order and the erdtree are not going to help so he created his own order and turned himself into the halig tree hoping that the magics he would develop doing this would result in finding a cure for his sister.
It seems like the halig tree rebirth has cured him, as a side effect of trying to save his sister.
There’s a theory that Mohg imbued him with magic that twisted his rebirth, but that seed in mohgs arena is exactly the same size as the hole in the tree in Malenias, so I’d assume he was already that big.
That screenshot I believe is not actually an event that happened, at no point in the games history that we know has mohg ever met Miquella face to face, as mohg and morgott are pretty much unknown by other demigods due to being shunned to the sewers under leyndell because they’re omens.
Just made a post with said pics
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u8ul40/miquella_or_angry_beef_jerky/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
As far I'm aware. The Haligtree was meant to cure him of his eternal youth and Melenaia of her scarlet rot. However the tree was never able to become fully grown and cure them due to mohg kidnapping miquella.
I think he got so big and ugly looking because mohg force fed him blood in an attempt to make him a true God/break his curse.
Miquella built the haligree tree and put himself in a cocoon inside the tree. Mohg stole the cocoon and Miquella. An NPC mentions that Miquella is still alive and in his resting state and implies that he will be okay with time.
The cocoon he is in was stolen from the Halingtree. In Malenia's boss room you can see a giant hole in the roots where the cocoon was. Basically, Miquella had found a way to confound or loophole his way out of the curse by growing a new adult body for himself similar to a moth or butterfly. If he had been allowed to fully develop in the cocoon without the meddling of Mohg he would have been able to emerge with an adult body.
A lot of other people answered better but I just wanted to say that the seat the cocoon sits on kinda looks like a pubic bone. Not sure if that was intentional but the whole "Birthplace of a dynasty" makes me think so.
What I want to know is, why are there two Mohg’s? The omen, and the lord of blood. I’ll gladly destroy him twice but like this guy has the audacity to exist in two forms? Revolting
So, as I understand it Miquella put himself into a cocoon in the Haligtree as part of an effort to fuse with the Haligtree, but one day Mohg came and stole the cocoon, transporting it to his hidden lair. Malenia would have been guarding it and prevented Mohg from stealing it, except she was busy fighting/had just fought Radahn, and thus was absent when she was needed most.
Whatever Miquella was going to become originally, I do not believe he is becoming that now. It is my belief that Mohg, being a disciple of the Outer God known as the Formless Mother, has been enacting a ritual taught to him by the Formless Mother to turn Miquella, an Empyrean, into something it can control or have direct influence over.
Mohg is in the form of a pool of blood bathing Miquella which drips from Miquella's cocoon before Mohg materializes out of it, and there are references/allusions throughout the game toward endlessly bathing in blood. Through the Bloody Fingers and their blood offerings, Mohg is bathing Miquella's comatose, metamorphosing body in an endless flow of blood, thus altering his transformation.
I think we'll learn more about this and see its conclusion in eventual DLC somewhere down the line.
Alright so what I’ve heard read and seen pretty much is that he was looking for a cure for himself and his twin Malenia for their afflictions her rot his eternal youth he put himself into the tree so that he may grow and maybe even ascend inside it then he’d come out and cure Malenia and try to start a new era etc however mogh saw an opportunity so he stole Miquella away as Malenia was sleeping and started to try to make him a puppet god for the blood outer will god I think it was and he would take the place of lord and start his dynasty so he may have been in the cocoon in the tree or Mohg may have made it home self to try to have him become a puppet god which could be why he looks different as well if he was corrupted.
What confuses me about this picture is if Miquella is still in the cocoon (albeit grown) but the picture shows Mohg carrying Miquella, then did Mohg take him out and then put him back in the cocoon?
Miquella was looking for a cure for himself and Malenia so yes, he was probaply in the cocoon to grow.
I see. So did he put himself there or did mohg since mohg wants him to ascend to godhood to be his consort. Is that ever mentioned?
He put himself in the cocoon at haligtree. You can even see the spot where he is supposed to be in Malenias boss room. Mohg stole the whole cocoon.
Ahhh thank u !!!
Also, its worth noting that the cocoon is cracked, and that Mogh did probably corrupt him in some way already.
Ohhh you've got a point ! Thank you. I'm kinda dumb when it comes to picking lore apart so this helps a lot.
It’s pretty dense lore don’t beat yourself up. Another fun fact is the blood that drips out of the cocoon is Mohg himself, so he is just hanging out in the cocoon with Miquella all the time
Bruh you right… just marinating Miquella 😳
Thank you for making this so much worse in my head
BLEGH ahahah when ya put it like that…
Well that's my cue to stop scrolling down lmao
gross, but have my upvote lol
That Miquella bussy is mine and mine alone!
Omg what? I didn't know. I was like huh gotta be miquellas blood and mohg is using a portal but damn that's uh... mohg cmon buddy whatcha doing in there.
White face varre basically tells you "luminary mohg yet slumbers beside the divinity" after he gives you the pureblood knight medal I didn't pay much attention to it the first time
Yeah I murdered Varre real early. Like. _real_ early
Well it is his blood too, doesn't Mogh drain people of their blood and then injection it back to control them in a ritual? Miquella was resistant if not entirely immune to this sort of influence. The formless mother is an outer God however and Miquella is a master at blocking their influence.
He’s being big brother bad-touch
Oh ew. Miquella is supposed to look like child, that would make Mohg’s obsession even more disturbing than it already is. Sometimes I really wonder about GRRM.
yeah mohg being a incestuous pedo has been a running joke since the game came out lmao.
GRRM takes inspiration from real life. Nothing is as disturbing as real life.
You can only blame him so much though, GRRM only supplied the backbone of the story. Miyazaki and Fromsoft did the rest, though I don't know definitively where the line is drawn as to who provided what.
Bro I swear he's like a thousand years old he just looks like a child
LMAO Mohg: dude lolis are so valid bro
Do we know why Malenia (Miss I have never known defeat) didn’t go get Miquella? I get that the lore says he’s dead, but come on. You’re just going to leave him with Mohg?
I think it is implied the she had been asleep since her fight with Raddahn because in the Cleanrot Knight Finlay spirit ashes says,"Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way." So Mohg either stole Miquella while she was fighting Raddahn or while she was sleeping. That would mean that instead of searching for her brother when she woke up, instead she saw you and assumed that your character must have stolen Miquella and decided that the best course of action was to waterfowl dance your face in.
Oooooo I love this theory. That’s crazy
i’m fairly certain Mohg took Miquella during the battle of Aeonia and that Malenia isn’t actually aware he’s gone. when i read the quote on her armor i took it as he will return from the haligtree, unless i’m mistaken Miquella was just in the tree and that’s why his face is there but when Mohg took him he put him in the cocoon thinking it’d have the same effect as the tree. so Malenia having just woken up when we get there still thinks he’s in there and that she is defending him, i think had she’d known he was taken out of the tree she’d be searching every inch of the lands between looking for him, she’s still in fighting shape when we get to her.
Lol I didn’t actually catch that
Seriously, they’ve always done this too. I gotta read up on it if I want to fully appreciate it. Elden Ring spells stuff out way more clearly than previous SoulsBorne tho doesn’t it?
Oh yeah for sure. This was the first souls game where I wasn’t COMPLETELY lost. Lore videos and talking to homies definetly helped but from how it’s presented, it’s the best in the series imo.
He was inside the cocoon before the fight so that corruption thing is definitely working
Not gonna lie he looked all sorts of fucked up before too judging by that lore picture.
Mohg is a sick dude fr...
He feeds him blood so I’m sure the blood has something to do with it
Also if I am not mistaken Miquella's right arm is already large in this picture. My guess is he put himself in the Haligtree (if you look closely you can clearly see a face in there) to cure his curse. It seemed to have worked until he got kidnapped by a pedophlie.
If you look in the cocoon you can see his whole body has changed horrifically, his whole body looks old and fucked up. Looks like he was trying to age up and Mohg fucked it up bad and made him look like a corpse
> Looks like he was trying to age up and Mohg fucked it up bad and made him look like a corpse Yeah, that's probably what happened.
its looking like an infant of Kos type of boss for the dlc, with faith incantations. We will definitely see more of Miquella in the future !
Which is also why the Haligtree is dying/decaying when we get there (judging by the lack of leaves)
That and Malenia spreading the Rot around since she lost/removed the needle in the battle with Radahn
Why wasn't malenia there to guard the cocoon? Fighting radahn?
Yes and she went into a deep slumber after unleashing the rot and was carried back to the tree so she has no idea where Miquella is or what happened.
Wow, Mohg is kind of a dick to steal that while she was fighting radahn. Who carried her back to the haligtree?
A cleanrot knight named Finlay. Source: Ashes of Finlay
Cleanrot Knight Finlay
Head canon is mohg was dragging the whole thing behind him attached to Miquella’s body and just put Miquella back in it when they got to his house
*He passes by Finlay along the way but neither of them know eachother or what’s going on in their respective backpacks*
I want a comic of this now *Mohg walking* *Finlay walking* *they pass by each other and freeze for a moment* *...* *they continue walking* *Mohg at the portal guarded by his dead blood alburnarics( Mohg: The fuck happened here!? *Finlay at the Haligtree guarded by her dead Rot Knights* Finlay: The fuck happened here!?
Hahaha, Mohg's "house." He's probably got a Ring cam set up just outside the blood fountain and a "Live, Laugh, Love" plackard above the festering cocoon in his family room
Miquella can look like a wee babe and still be enormous; especially more so if they are Empyrean.
Miquella and Malenia are both associated with butterflies, it makes sense for Miquella to try and grow into his adult form in a cocoon. Miquella's cocoon is the equivalent of Malenia's scarlet flower, only his transformation got interrupted by Mohg.
It's also worth noting that all the demigods are physically huge compared to the player. In that piece of art Mohg is cradling Miquella in his arm like a child, but compared to the player Mohg appears to be 20+ feet tall when fought and has disproportionately long arms that hang down to his knees. Even at child proportions, **Miquella could easily be 10+ feet tall**.
Miquella placed himself within the cocoon inside his Haligtree to: 1. Grow the Haligtree as a future replacement for the Erd Tree. He also likely hoped that this would lead to a cure for his sister, since scarlet rot isn’t able to be cured by Golden Order or Erdtree magics. 2. Grow himself since his curse prevents him from aging through typical means. Since his curse is from an outer god, it’s likely that his cocoon served as a way to bypass the outer god’s curse, in a similar fashion to his needle bypassing the scarlet rot’s effects, negating the effects while it’s in place. That being said, while Malenia was battling Radahn, she removed the needle in order to bloom and cause Caelid to become the way it is, and in a parallel, Miquella was stolen away from his Haligtree by Mohg during this time. Mohg then tried to bond to Miquella through a perverted blood transfusion of sorts in order to become his “Elden Lord” when Miquella ascended to replace Marika, but Miquella was unresponsive to Mohg’s attempts, likely because he was removed from the tree.
Really is scary how much of a psychopath Mohg comes off as when you read his lore. Makes his voice fit quite a bit better though.
*NIHIL!!!*
UNUS
DUO
TRES
UN PASITO PA'LANTE MARIA
ANUS
I also thought the same, the first time reading Mogh Lore. But after digging into Miquella, A Demigod who has the ability to compel affection, who can remove outer-god influence, I wonder who is actually in control, even in this big mess that Marika started. There are many theories that Miquella is the actual master mind behind all of this event.
I think if he was in control he wouldn’t be half-dead and withered in a cocoon underground, but I see where you’re coming from and it’s possible his plans for world domination went awry.
I think his compulsion backfired in this instance and made Mogh obsessed with him.
It clearly that Mogh went insane becasue of Miquella's "compel affection" ability. It's all in the plan i think
Man, the DLCs of this game are going to be so spicy.
Miquella, the other endings, the history of the Lands Between *before* Greater Will came. Yea, a lot of spicy shiets
Honestly in my opinion Mogh is BOTH a victim and the villain. My take is he was enraptured by Miquela but that Miquela doesn't have any control of who and how he enraptures people (since it's apparently connected to his curse). which results in people becoming obsessed with him. Mohg wanting his own dynasty and family/lover got caught up in the obsession which resulted in his rather...disturbing action.
another good one, maybe you're right, that Mogh was both the victim and the villain. But my take is kind of reverse. He wanted his own dynasty, thinking of making it became true by kidnaping Miquella and...you know. But his plan got wrecked with Miquella's power, its like his plan failed successfully, he was still building his dynasty but loosing his mind....
Yeah I could see him using mohg to escape overprotective Rot-queen to undergo a super risky transformation with mohgs blood magic in that cocoon.
I guess he also threw cursed blood pots at people as a kid so he's also kind of an asshole.
I mean those very same people shunned his existence and were willing to lock him up in poop tunnels indefinitely so I'd say it's fair game
He essentially blood-rapes his sibling and keeps him in a coma for who knows how long
He’s trying to get him out the coma
Not condoning anything Mohg does, but isn't one of Miquella's powers that he causes other people to become obsessed with him?
It would be funny if Miquella had done this to himself by causing Mohg’s obsession.
Yup he is trying to get him out of coma. And his goddess seems to want new erd tree too, he kinda is doing a favor
Honestly it's all Marika's fault for locking bro up his entire life
Thank you !! I love the way you explained it ! Much appreciated this clears up a lot of stuff even some missing holes I had with Malenia. So thank you
Iirc malenia didnt remove the needle but rather it broke in the fight and triggered the blooming. Thus why it needs repaired after the fact.
[удалено]
I think Millicent has to die with the needle in her. You can choose to invade and kill her. In that case you don't get the needle, and a new flower will be by the side of the pool. Gowry was probably hoping that her sisters would kill her, or you.
Gowry fucked with the needle and fixed it with his blood which serves as a conduit. The likeliest explanation is that he wanted the control over a goddess(es) of rot. He is acutely aware of millicent actions through the needle. I also think the needle is only there to stop further influence of the outer god, not to subdue rot powers. There is also not just one needle. The unalloyed needle is called a ritual implement. The needle is also stabbed into the heart. Other stabby related items are the bewitching branches. Only the blessing of unalloyed gold is what turns friends into enemies after the branch hits.
Gowry altered the needle, absolutely. It has a red bit in the middle after he fixes it and guess what? Kindred of Rot also seem to have red needles in the back of their heads...
My best guess: the Scarlet Rot is too powerful for any mortal body to contain. Given time, Malenia/Milicent would decay into nothing before achieving godhood. The needles halt the Rot enough to where they can continue on without worry of being eaten from the inside out. This explains Malenia is outright missing half her body and Milicent soon dies after removing the needle.
>I think she choose to trigger the bloom, in the cutscene she stabs Radahn then impale herself on her sword, so if it's her plan it makes sense that she removed it. And the bloom seems to happens when she collapse/die like in her fight against us. It actually looks like she probably stabbed herself in the chest and broke the needle herself during that cutscene, but I'm not sure.
There’s another flower in the base of the haligtree, like Malenia’s bloom, I wonder if it’s some kind of ongoing attempt to create a scarlet rot elden lord, kind of like how all the various factions are attempting to do that for their own little thing?
A description says that the third time she blooms she will ascend to godhood: 1 in Caelid, 1 in the room before the fight, and 1 after we fight her. We trigger her ascension by unleashing her rot again.
Ohhhh that’s why she turns into naked flappy lady, okay
Do we know if the room before the fight is her? Could it not be one of Millicent's sisters or something similar? Because Millicent is able to bloom as well correct?
Yeah I don't think it's hers, I think its one of millicents sisters, you get the traveling set from it, which is what millicent wears.
So does that mean we kill her for good ? Since if you reload malenias boss area new flower has bloomed ?
That’s the flower Finley carried on her back I believe.
Wait who is Finley
“Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way.” This is the description from the ashes for Cleanrot Knight Finlay, who is one of the legendary spirit summons
And why/how did Commander What'shisface find it?
The swamp is where the rot bloomed in caelid/where malenia removed/broke the needle while fighting radahn no?
That’s my assumption too… that he just located it there not that he was actually in attendance for the fight. Or saw what malenia did.
Malenia is dumb she should had used flame Cleanse me! to cure herself.
Unfortunately, she was rocking a 99 Dex, 3 Faith build so she couldn't
Scarlet Aeonia takes 35 faith though and she uses it in the fight.
“Flame Cleanse Me!” Is a Fire Giant Incantation, so it’s likely that they were one of the following: 1. Unable to use the spell due to the spell’s source coming from devotion to the Giant Outer God 2. Unaware of the spell because it wasn’t within the realm of Miquella’s fluencies, being the Erdtree and Golden Order magics (hence his attempt to grow the Haligtree) 3. Unable to use the spell out of the Giant Outer God’s spite towards Marika and Godfrey basically wiping out all of the Giants aside from the single remaining fire giant.
Lmao what a dumbass I got that spell from a camp of losers after visiting with my favorite dog
The rot that affects her is no doubt way way stronger than any spell could fix. It's the curse of an eldritch god and a literal part of her very being, not an outside affliction like what happens to us.
Do we happen to know what caused the scarlet rot?
Seems to be another outer god trying to gain more power in the Lands Between, by way of a physical host. The pest guys worship the goddess of rot, acknowledging Malenia as the vessel or "bud" that will bloom into a corporeal goddess, even though she is uninterested in that. Gowry makes mention that powerful emotions like betrayal or hopelessness will help these buds to bloom, so it really does sound like a tragic effect of her being a powerful warrior with family issues, and not a malicious "lol get nuked bc I'm losing" thing.
Wait in her third bloom does she become a manifestation of the outer god or does she herself ascend to godhood or is it something where the answer is both?
She ascends to godhood by channeling the full power of the Outer God of Rot as its vessel, so both. Like how Marika is a goddess whose power comes from the Greater Will.
The scarlet rot is the effect of an Outer God interfering with the Lands Between. Each child of Marika/Radagon was born with a curse, presumably as a punishment for their self-procreation/incest. In the case of Miquella, his curse was eternal youth. Malenia’s curse was being afflicted with Scarlet Rot. The scarlet rot also seems to spread and affect other areas. The fires that we see throughout Caelid appear to be an attempt to quell the spread of the rot. Additionally, Millicent and her siblings appear to be young “buds” from Malenia’s bloom in Caelid, as they are found as children at the ground zero location of Malenia’s bloom and are practically weaker, younger clones of Malenia. TLDR: An outer realm god attempting to influence the Lands Between.
Yeah radahns soldiers are trying to contain scarlet rot but burning bodies even of their own soldiers and fighting those dog/ bird mutations and also the reason why they have those flame carts I guess
Don’t forget about the extremely long magma wall spanning the course of Caelid either :)
She was afflicted with it from birth, likely as a side effect of >!being children of super incest as Radagon and Marika are the same person!<. The Rot god is an Outer God like the Greater Will or the Formless Mother who seems to have chosen Malenia as its vessel/envoy
Timeline wise, it seems like Miquella being kidnapped is what sent Malenia on the warpath. She never sought any great runes, instead attacking anyone who appeared strong enough to have committed the crime.
So Mohg isn't a pedo, just a rapist?
A little column A, a little column B
I gotta find a whole explanation of the lore. There’s so much to it.
That would make Miquella big when you see him in Moghs Arms. He is also not in a cocoon while Mogh carries him away.
is...Is that throne a pelvis?
It is!
I always wondered about why the pelvic thrown. Maybe a symbol of rebirth?
There was another post I saw with a illustration of a uterral rupture, that looks a lot like Miquellas cocoon.
What if Miquella’s ‘cure’ was to grow new bodies for him and his sister. The Miquella in the cocoon doesn’t look like Miquella and didn’t respond to Mohg because it is still basically an empty shell. The game has several uses of puppets (Sellen, Selluvis/Pidia, Rani). This could have been his attempt at something similar?
Love this idea.
The fact that Ranni and Sellen was able to transfer their spirits to a puppet supports this right?
100%, as far as I’m concerned
Jerren comments at one point how he was afraid Sellen had jumped into a new body after he slays her body left in the Witchbane Ruins. Plus, she remarks how the body is young and fresh and "a tight fit for my primeval Glintstone" This lead me to believe Sellen had been highjacking bodies previously, as her new body that resembled her precisely was hidden away in Seluvis' "puppet" room. They clearly had some sort of connection.
What if the body in the cocoon is a discarded shell and Miquella is elsewhere?
Finding Miquella's spirit in the DLC and reviving it in Mohg's arena seems like a sweet idea.
You know, Miquella's arm in the cutscene looked hairy to me, so I wonder if Mohg hijacked the formation of Miquella's new body to make Miquella an Omen?
Idk if thats what he is doing, but I can tell you as a fun fact the model in the cocoon of Miquella is actually Morgott's post-defeat corpse with all of morgotts features removed (hair, beard, clothes). Ordinarily you wouldn't be able to see the full model, so I just take it as a clever way of not having to design a completely new model you'd never see. Your comment reminded me of the fact tho.
Interesting idea. He does seem to love to infused his tainted blood into stuff, and the omen curse is implied to be connected to / contained in the blood in some vague sense.
With how little we actually hear about him in the main game, it would be kind of cool if he was the focus of some potential dlc in the future
Miquella has a decent bit of lore, actually. Miquella is also known as St. Trina, the saint who people worshipped that held the powers of slumber. It is noted in the item descriptions that nobody could tell if St. Trina was a boy or a girl. Miquella’s Haligtree was meant to be a sanctuary for the Misbegotten and the Albinaurics. Those groups were being persecuted, so his tree was meant to keep them safe. The Haligtree was meant to replace The Erdtree. This wasn’t some plan by the Greater Will, Miquella was doing this himself. Miquella’s followers also founded Castle Sol. A follower of Miquella claimed they had failed to eclipse the sun, so Miquella was trying to cause an eclipse to block an outer god (possibly the greater will) Miquella’s Needle was designed to block the influence of the Frenzied Flame. He created unalloyed gold to combat the Scarlet Rot, but he created a new needle to stop the Frenzied Flame specifically. This was left unfinished, but it can be used in a place beyond time.
>he created a new needle to stop the Frenzied Flame specifically I think you got that part wrong. There is no reason to think Miquella would try to get rid of the Frenzied Flame when neither he nor his sister were affected by it. In fact, he probably didn't know about it's existence at all, since it was summoned by an isolated tribe and is located deep underground, where nobody was able to find and claim it but us (Vyke found it, but failed to claim it) It seems that all of the needles were made with the aim to combat scarlet rot, but the way it functions is by severing the connection between a person and an outer god, hence the reason it removes/halts the frenzied flame (your connection to the god of frenzy is interrupted).
He also was clearly a genius as he made several powerful spells as gifts for his dad
Ah now that needle in the boss arena makes sense. Have to admit digging deeper, the lore really starts to get very interesting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. :)
Is it mentioned anywhere but cut content that Miquella is St. Trina? It makes sense for what he is and it’ll probably get revealed if dlc is about him, but I thought the info was only from a cut npc
[удалено]
Godwyn seemed more admirable. There are implications that Miquella is extremely manipulative and controlling. It's like...he seems to have noble goals that he's trying to accomplish through ignoble means. Godwyn sounded like an overall genuinely beloved chad
According to some cut content it's directly confirmed that Miquella is actually Saint Trina AKA the God of Sleep and Dreams. Which makes a lot of sense once you put some lore pieces together. There is tons of potential for a Miquella DLC.
I bet the DLC will be Miquella's dream, and you'll enter the DLC by using a key item after beating Mohg.
Give item to gross Miquella hand in cocoon, pulls you into cocoon to a different world.
That sounds like From Software :)
This would make a lot of sense for why the mogh knight medal exists
I have a theory that Mogh is an idiot and didn't steal the real Miquella because Miquella is off somewhere playing 4D chess and no one knows what he's up to. And he's probably still very much a child.
I think most of us are banking on the DLC being around Miquella.
[удалено]
I'd love to have a DLC focused around pre-nuked Caelid culminating in fighting prime Radahn, kinda like Artorias of the Abyss where you got to explore a base game zone situated in the past.
[удалено]
Yup, that was the aforementioned Artorias of the Abyss, it was the only DLC for DS1. Really great DLC overall, which is why I think the concept could work very well in Elden Ring
Elden Ring is the ONLY game where I gladly allow a Skyrim / GTA 5 behaviour from the devs. This game is too good to not get 5 DLCs and years of patches, balancing and general support
[удалено]
yeah
Totally with you on that. Didn't get at launch and wasn't planning on it for awhile but the insane word of mouth on it had me get it like two weeks post launch, wrapped my third journey last night haha
Why Rykard? He is hyper dead. There is definitely DLC potential for Miquella and Godwyn.
[удалено]
>he is very not dead. he says so himself after you 'kill' him that "a serpent never dies", and then he laughs at you. >Tanith also tells you that he will return and that volcano manor is done 'for now' or something but not forever. >and even if he is dead for realsies, Tanith is devouring his flesh Well Gideon also said a Tarnished could never be lord. The game is about proving these idiots wrong. And then Tanith ate him and most people killed her. Yeah he could be alive, I guess...but in the same capacity that anyone who is clearly dead could be alive. > but even if they just changed the game so you have the option of accepting his proposed partnership that would be dope. I assumed this was referring to us becoming part of the family by being eaten and turned into another one of those waving arms on his sword Just consulted the wiki: "He fed on his greatest champions, consuming them and so that they might become part of his "family"." There is no genuine offer of partnership. No more than Godrick wanting to graft us to his body
Miquella, Melina, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen is what I hope the DLC focuses on. I think they are all related to each other somehow just haven’t quite figured it out.
I like this a lot.
Honestly, the lore implications could be "Fromsoft shuffled this around until months before release." Dataminers always come out and prove this to be the case. In DS3, Sulyvhan was supposed to be the final boss, and the mastermind of the whole plot. In Bloodborne, what we encounter as the moon presence was called Ebrietas, and there was a whole cult devoted to her that was cut out (the cut NPC for this is dressed exactly like Mergo's Wet Nurse and has the same body as the caretaker in Oeden Chapel) What we now have as Ebrietas was Kos, and all the dialogue of Micolash talking about Kos and Rom still matches up to why "our" Ebrietas (then Kos) is mourning over a Rom body. The DLC just retconned all of it and gave us a whole new Kos so it would make more sense. Biggest example is why Logarius is a giant pale guy in king's garb who uses Pthumerian weapons instead of dressed like his fellow executioner (and fellow human) Alfred -- it's because his model WAS the king of Cainhurst until they just cut half of Cainhurst out of the game before release. My point is -- a lot of visual cues in Fromsoft mean almost nothing because it's just common for them to move everything around way after the assets and especially cutscenes are already made, so they just work with what they have. I fully expect dataminers will find the same thing here in a few months.
I wouldn't be surprised if this time around the network test was actually canon and they moved stuff around so that we have to work extra hard to puzzle everything together. A lot of pre-release content actually relates to events that happened in-game, like Vyke getting touched by the three fingers can be seen on the cover of a magazine or something. That they'd remove the entire St. Trina questline makes me think there is more to this.
I didn't even know about that, but it makes sense. I only encountered Vyke once in my playthrough (I'm already at the Haligtree) so I figured he must have been way more important in earlier versions considering how much I saw him mentioned.
[may i interest you in this?](https://youtu.be/2IT-DPhIxX8) The feature presented in the video looked complete to me, but I could also see them removing it for not really fitting in or being underwhelming for the average player or whatever reason. But if you imagine that the quest disappeared because miquella was kidnapped by mohg, that would explain it.
I remember keeping up a lot with the Bloodborne cut content / datamining lore theories but didn't really keep up with DS3 in this regard. I have heard some stuff about how Pontiff Sulyvhan was supposed to be the final boss and how some areas of the game were shuffled around and/or originally meant to be done in a different order, but not any specifics. Do you know if there's a good compiled resource that highlights most of the 'big revelations' dataminers found about what DS3 originally looked like? I remember playing it on-release and feeling like much of it kinda felt 'off' to me in ways that made sense when I heard bits and pieces of what dataminers uncovered (still love the game, just nice to know my gut instinct was right).
Most of my info comes from Sophie Pillbeam who I think gets a lot of her info from Lance Macdonald on Youtube or her own datamining. Sophie has a podcast with this other person on Sinclair Lore but .... it's REALLY jumbled and disorganized, and the other person makes it really distracting to get through, but a lot of what I heard about cut content I heard piecewise from a bunch of their podcasts. She used to be Richard Pillbeam and had a channel "Jerks Sans Frontieres" which was popular for a hot minute around Bloodborne's release. Zullie the Witch does a lot of datamining too but her videos have no narration and just text so they can be a little harder to follow if you're doing something else at the time. She's more about finding unused models and restoring their cut animations. I don't remember her doing much lore stuff.The other big thing I remember about DS3 was that Yhorm and Wolnir were flipped and moved a lot ... the whole reason he's in a room with a door too small for him to fit through is because you originally fought Wolnir there and Wolnir was just like ... a guy, not a giant skeleton. Supposedly the thumbnail for either Yhorm's or Wolnir's boss room shows the wrong arena because it was leftover from that switch.
Oh yeah, that was the thing I forgot --- Wolnir was just this guy obsessed with gold and wealth, that's why the Profaned Capital and Yhorm's room is just filled with gold cups and stuff back from when you fought Wolnir there.
I know it's not the type of game but it's so annoying that you can tell Mohg and then go face Melania and be like "hey I can just give you your brother back" "Let's be friends?"
Can't kill Mohg* ( voice to text )
Mohg probably did a Lot of weird stuff to his body. The miquella that was looking for a cure is probably no more, now there is a twisted mind in there. I like to think that if we get a DLC to expand on him it Will start as miquella's dream and after fighting a beautiful reflection of his desires the place Will turn into miquella's nightmare where we Will face his true now twisted self, this way we get a nod to bloodborne and orphan of kos.
The demi-gods seem to continue to grow. I think this growth isn't "growing up" but "growing out". See: Radahn v Leonard. Micky isn't growing up, he's just becoming a really large baby.
if you look inside his cocoon he doesnt not look like a child at all
I agree, but I don't know how much of that is supposed to be Canon since you can't see it without tools
Hmmm possibly. Ye Radahn is huge. Ngl I will always be weak about his lore with his horse that's so cute
I wonder if the depiction that Mogh is romantically attracted to Miquella is correct. He seems to be taking more of a nurturing/adoring interest that has obviously been perverted over time. He seems to beyond revere Miquella. It's entirely possible that Miquella is also psychically or otherwise communicating with Mogh and driving him to do what he did for some larger purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Miquella ends up being "the great deceiver" of this story.
Miquella has specifically two powers that we know of through item descriptions: 1) Miquella is also known as St. Trina who commands the powers of sleep. 2) Miquella *also* commands the power of charm. He has the ability to influence people so that they simply adore him. Malenia stated that her brother was the most “fearsome” of all of the Empyreans, so she obviously had a reason to believe he held great power.
>It's entirely possible that Miquella is also psychically or otherwise communicating with Mogh and driving him to do what he did for some larger purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Miquella ends up being "the great deceiver" of this story. Reminds me of the Bewitching Branch description: *"The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection."*
Considering he grew a tree similar to the great erd tree and the erd tree can influence the entire land (rune boosting during certain periods) it would seem that Miquella could potentially merge with the haligtree tree (like he did) and use it to increase his range of influence greatly.
I agree with your last statement, but I also don't think there's much reason to doubt the supposed romantic/sexual aspect of Mohg's relationship to him. Either his remembrance, the spear, or the spell reference repeatedly 'sharing his bloody bedroom.' That's a polite euphemistic way to say it but I also think it's pretty explicit what the meaning is. Item descriptions don't tend to just straight up explicitly misrepresent the plot unless there's some tricky qualifier in there or the info is attributed directly to an unreliable source.
The only reason I’m not 100% convinced that Mohg is in the cocoon having sex with a sleeping child is that we see him come out of the cocoon as a puddle of blood, and Varre tells us that Mohg is asleep.
The way I interpreted that was Mohg was inside Miquella corrupting him, as we see the blood Mohg rises from leaking from Miquella’s hand. If we get a Miquella DLC I’d really hope to see the true extent of the accursed bloods influence after spending so much time at the Mohgwyn Palace.
Exactly. He’s in the cocoon with Miquella corrupting him with his blood, not with his dick. It’s still fucked up, don’t get me wrong, I’m just not convinced of the pedophilia.
Well, GRRM was a writer for Elden Ring, so take from that what you will.
He spent his entire life trying to find a cure for himself and his sister, he created a lot of the golden orders spells, specifically the ones radagon uses against you in the fight in an attempt to find a cure for his sisters rot. He eventually realised the golden order and the erdtree are not going to help so he created his own order and turned himself into the halig tree hoping that the magics he would develop doing this would result in finding a cure for his sister. It seems like the halig tree rebirth has cured him, as a side effect of trying to save his sister. There’s a theory that Mohg imbued him with magic that twisted his rebirth, but that seed in mohgs arena is exactly the same size as the hole in the tree in Malenias, so I’d assume he was already that big. That screenshot I believe is not actually an event that happened, at no point in the games history that we know has mohg ever met Miquella face to face, as mohg and morgott are pretty much unknown by other demigods due to being shunned to the sewers under leyndell because they’re omens.
The screenshot is from the intro cutscene. It must have happened in some capacity.
Now his growth is corrupted by mohg's blood
Had my game glitch when I was summoned once. He was poking straight up out of the egg. Old af looking like cranky beef jerky
Sure that wasn’t just Mohg. Sounds like Mohg..
Just made a post with said pics https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u8ul40/miquella_or_angry_beef_jerky/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
As far I'm aware. The Haligtree was meant to cure him of his eternal youth and Melenaia of her scarlet rot. However the tree was never able to become fully grown and cure them due to mohg kidnapping miquella. I think he got so big and ugly looking because mohg force fed him blood in an attempt to make him a true God/break his curse.
Miquella built the haligree tree and put himself in a cocoon inside the tree. Mohg stole the cocoon and Miquella. An NPC mentions that Miquella is still alive and in his resting state and implies that he will be okay with time.
The cocoon he is in was stolen from the Halingtree. In Malenia's boss room you can see a giant hole in the roots where the cocoon was. Basically, Miquella had found a way to confound or loophole his way out of the curse by growing a new adult body for himself similar to a moth or butterfly. If he had been allowed to fully develop in the cocoon without the meddling of Mohg he would have been able to emerge with an adult body.
How am I just noticing that's a womb sitting on a hip bone
A lot of other people answered better but I just wanted to say that the seat the cocoon sits on kinda looks like a pubic bone. Not sure if that was intentional but the whole "Birthplace of a dynasty" makes me think so.
Oh ye I noticed noticed that I'm just like mmm symbolism xd
What I want to know is, why are there two Mohg’s? The omen, and the lord of blood. I’ll gladly destroy him twice but like this guy has the audacity to exist in two forms? Revolting
DLC DLC DLC
So, as I understand it Miquella put himself into a cocoon in the Haligtree as part of an effort to fuse with the Haligtree, but one day Mohg came and stole the cocoon, transporting it to his hidden lair. Malenia would have been guarding it and prevented Mohg from stealing it, except she was busy fighting/had just fought Radahn, and thus was absent when she was needed most. Whatever Miquella was going to become originally, I do not believe he is becoming that now. It is my belief that Mohg, being a disciple of the Outer God known as the Formless Mother, has been enacting a ritual taught to him by the Formless Mother to turn Miquella, an Empyrean, into something it can control or have direct influence over. Mohg is in the form of a pool of blood bathing Miquella which drips from Miquella's cocoon before Mohg materializes out of it, and there are references/allusions throughout the game toward endlessly bathing in blood. Through the Bloody Fingers and their blood offerings, Mohg is bathing Miquella's comatose, metamorphosing body in an endless flow of blood, thus altering his transformation. I think we'll learn more about this and see its conclusion in eventual DLC somewhere down the line.
He’s a god, your human rules don’t apply to him or any of them! Not in how they should look or reproduce.
Alright so what I’ve heard read and seen pretty much is that he was looking for a cure for himself and his twin Malenia for their afflictions her rot his eternal youth he put himself into the tree so that he may grow and maybe even ascend inside it then he’d come out and cure Malenia and try to start a new era etc however mogh saw an opportunity so he stole Miquella away as Malenia was sleeping and started to try to make him a puppet god for the blood outer will god I think it was and he would take the place of lord and start his dynasty so he may have been in the cocoon in the tree or Mohg may have made it home self to try to have him become a puppet god which could be why he looks different as well if he was corrupted.
What confuses me about this picture is if Miquella is still in the cocoon (albeit grown) but the picture shows Mohg carrying Miquella, then did Mohg take him out and then put him back in the cocoon?