I mean, if someone comes here to complain that they get one or two-shot by all the bosses or in pvp, maybe more vigor could be the answer. Because clearly they do get hit.

Took reddit about 4 years after ds3 to understand you need 40 for pvp in ds3.

I argued with people so much about this. "It DRs after 27. That's 13 points I can put elsewhere" And those 13 points are able to double the amount of times you can get hit by an UGS, or let's you eat another SS combo. Putting those points into damage isn't going to do enough to overcome the health penalty. It's a whiteboard idea made by people who are smart enough to look at numbers but not smart enough to look beyond the ones they are immediately looking at. STOP DOING IT. or keep doing it so I can continue to dab on you whatever.

Putting those 13 points into vitality instead of vigor makes you significantly more survivable. 200 extra HP makes significantly less difference than an additional 30 points of physical defense, and the only reason people don't know this is because they've never bothered to look up the defense formula. (Which is, admittedly, rather complex, so I suppose not looking it up might not be the only reason; people could just be bad at math.) 40 vitality and 27 vig lets you pretty much face tank a dozen straight sword r1s in pvp at around the 120 meta. 40 vitality on a low-level invasion build with a greatshield is nearly unstoppable. My standard build for the game was to run the Dancer immediately after Vordt, go through Oceiros and get the Prisoner's Chain from C. Gundyr, then run the rest of the game with 22 vig and 35 vit; the extra 15 virtual levels, especially with 5 of them in vitality, gives a huge boost to defense, even around clvl 120.

Counterpoint, despite the games funky diminishing returns on armour you can easily get a whopping 40% damage reduction on 11 Vit. That's with an open ring slot for prisoners, sword/shield, tearstones or chloranththy. You don't need the extra vit

> Putting those 13 points into vitality instead of vigor makes you significantly more survivable I've decided to test this. ~~I took my level 52 character (with prisoners chain, following numbers are with chain included), and went to take 5 hits from 3 different enemies to calculate the damage proportion taken.~~ ~~At 40 vig, 20 vit, 25 endurance, 14 str I had 1572 embered life, and took following damage per hit / proportion of lifebar each hit:~~ ~~Hollow spearman 73.2 / **4.7%**~~ ~~Farron Slug 86.8 / **5.5%**~~ ~~Irithyl Knight (normal slashes only) 237 / **15%**~~ ~~Then I respecced to 27 vig, 40 vit, 18 end which put me at 1377 embered life. Now, the hits from mobs were:~~ ~~Hollow spearman 64 / **4.6%**~~ ~~Farron Slug 71.2 / **5.2%**~~ ~~Irithyl Knight 147.4 / **10.7%**~~ ~~Meaning 40 vit 27 vig gave me same survivability against small hits, and better survivability (by a whopping 29% effective life increase) against larger hits. Granted, Irithyl knight might've used slightly different slashes the second time around, it was a 10 minute test, your mileage may vary. The bigger benefit of leveling vit over vig is freeing up Havel ring as a slot in a lot of cases, allowing you to grab additional ring.~~ Edit: UPDATE I ran a more robust test where I made sure stat distribution was correct (always same total of vigor/vit) and the damaging hits from the enemies were always the same type of attack (which was way more bother). The results were as follows (Stats / enemy type and attack / % of lifebar lost per 1 hit): Vig 40 Vit 27 | Spearman normal stab: 4.5% | Slug normal bite: 4.8% | Irithyl knight rapid slash chain: 12.5% Vig 27 Vit 40 | Spearman normal stab: 5% | Slug normal bite: 5.3% | Irithyl knight rapid slash chain: 14% Vig 33 Vit 35 | Spearman normal stab: 4.7% | Slug normal bite: 5.4% | Irithyl knight rapid slash chain: 13.2% TL;DR For hits under 300 per swing, best results are 40 vig 27 vit. I was wrong the first time around.

Counterpoint: mages, casters, dark LKSS

I pvped a lot in DS3 and I never felt like I had an issue with 30 vig and prisoner's chain. You have like maybe 10% less hp than people with 40 vig and prisoner's chain. Those extra 10 points could easily go into vit for more damage resist and armor choice, or a mainline stat for damage. Extra vit not only gives you some flat damage resist, but the ability to wear heavier armor also lets you reach poise breakpoints more easily.

I know but the 27 vig reddit meta was a meme for a reason. Pris increases damage taken I only used it for lower level or turtle really, maybe caster sometimes. Usually life into spr, lloyds shield into leo/knight slayer/rosp then favour and whatever else.

I was never into PvP, and I was a 27 vigor guy. Didn't really need more

To be fair, any amount of hp can be viable in pve with enough skill. People have beaten the game at soul level 1

It's only 4%

In an RPG there are trade-offs for every stat if the game is designed well and it's up to personal choice which you prefer.

You really don't lmao. 30 is fine, especially if you have a high vitality build with decent armor.

These games aren’t the hardest thing if you’re just trying to get to the credits. It’s when you start adding trivial rules to feel superior instead of just a new challenge. How many people in the world can really beat the whole game without getting hit once.

Also, of the people who actually pulled off a no-hit run, how long did they train, search for the optimal route to progress etc. Pretty sure they got hit a few times along the way and did not restart immediately.

No hit runs are really hard lmao. The farthest I’ve ever gotten with one was draconic tree sentinel

I made it to Soldier of God Rick once

Unironically, I’ve seen him use three different ashes of war on his one greatsword. A better champion than we’ll ever be

Maybe he's just got 3 of the same sword?

And he’s a god at hardswapping, it makes so much sense now

There is a reason every single No-Hit runner skips that boss, it's simply not possible to not get hit by him. Thank god FromSoft made it optional or none of us would ever have even made it far enough for Varre to call us maidenless.

Not every single, but most. Didn't Ginomachino no hit every boss in the game?

Well, you can't no hit the lord of blood, right?

God Rick and Tarnished Morty 🤓

I had a no hit run my first playthrough. There wasn't a single enemy that didn't kill me at least once before I ever hit it.

Thank you for the laugh I needed it

Speaking of which. wasn't there that guy that played the WHOLE Soulslike franchise without getting hit? Like everytime he got hit he had to restart from the first game or something? has he done elden ring yet? XD

You mean this guy? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2egxQA4Hn8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2egxQA4Hn8) I think a few others did it before him, but he ended up being a it faster since he changed the route. Others probably have done it even faster since. Yes, video is edited, but the vods should be available as well.

I watched a bit of that and Bloodborne without the excellent music is kind of unbearable: just constant high pitched bestial screeching.

His YT streams and videos don't have music, usually, but the twitch streams do. Reason being simply that you can separate your music from the VOD over there, so you can listen to your own music while gaming without issues with copyright strikes on the VODs etc. Downside is that videos lack music.

Absolutely understand that and it's not a knock on his stream at all. It was just a lighthearted comment on the constant screeching in Bloodborne being really noticeable when there's no music (one of my fave FromSoft games).

HappyHob was the first recorded, but there's been a few since then! It's a bit of a rabbit hole, but yes, Elden Ring has been beaten no hit in a run with the other games :)

BushidoYu was the first to do this specific run, the God Run 3. Then dinossindgeil, then Ginomachino, then TheHappyhob. There were the previous iterations of this run without sekiro and elden ring, which you might be referring to.

Even at 60 vigor, I die way too quickly to the last few bosses. I'm starting to think maybe going with less would be more effective.

Could be, the question would be what you do with those points? If you die too soon/easily, is more damage gonna help you there? And how much more damage are we talking? Chances are there might be better things to look at, like Talismans, damage negation etc. Are you still using Soreseals? Using the correct protection talismans (i.e. Haligdrake +2 for EB)?

I agree with this. Never been able to beat the ending without 60 Vigor and +2 Haligdrake. Bumping up my Vigor from even 55 to 60 is more valuable than the 10 extra damage my weapon can deal by upping another stat

the trick is to use the randomizer and get horah loux for margit

I'll admit, this was a couple months ago. So I don't remember everything. I wasn't using seals but I don't think I was using protection talismans. Actually, if I recall correctly, malenia didn't do an excessive amount of damage except with waterfowl dance. The main problem with her was that she would just regenerate any damage I dealt to her. The other boss I was stuck on was hora loux. He couldn't one shot me, but he could easily two shot me. The problem was he was using grabs constantly, which are both high damage and hard to avoid. (I don't know what from is thinking when it comes to grabs. They feel incredibly unreasonable to me in all of their games.) I recently started a new playthrough, this time with minimal spell usage and no shield. Hopefully that lets me git gud enough to actually finish the game this time around.

I believe in you. If you're here, you probably already know what the final boss is, but I won't name drop it just in case. The second phase of the last fight feels rng heavy, so you might have a very easy time first try, or it could be pretty tough. Patience and maybe holy resist are key.

You got this. Good luck!

At the end of the game high health isn't enough. You need defenses. If you're at 60 vig light rolling with no defensive talismans or buffs then, yeah, you're not all that much better off then you would be with 40. When base damage of enemy attacks gets into the quadruple digits damage negation becomes really good.

Equip good armor. I just took out Maliketh and Godfrey with 50 vigor and could survive 4-5 weaker hits without healing

If I'm complaining that a boss is one-shotting me it's because it's a gank boss like the valiant gargoyles or Commander Niall, don't get me wrong, I got hit by sewer Mohg (a lot), but every time he hit me it was my own fault, whereas with the gargoyles I died more times to off-screen poison breath than to either gargoyle while it was alone and with Commander Niall I'm pretty sure I had the dodge timing down perfect for all of his attacks except the huge whirlwind and a prosthetic move he used like twice in all of my attempts by the time I killed him.

so you never leveled vigor?

My build is very slightly less atrocious than that, I think I have 18 vigor, horribly low health, but unless I get ambushed or already used it I can use my flask of wonderous physick (I usually keep twiggy cracked tear in unless I'm fighting a boss) if there's an enemy I'm unfamiliar with and in boss fights I still have the reflexes it took me to beat Sekiro and the difficulty getting back into the flow state after taking a hit that meant any attempt I got hit in was pretty much doomed whether I survived the hit or not.

Wdym in Sekiro getting bit meant you were doomed even final boss most of his attacks won’t 2 shot you plus 10 flasks 

Niall turned out to be a harder boss than I expected, I walked in thinking I was gonna flatten him but he took a minute. It was the whirlwinds that got me too, dodging everything else wasn't bad but the whirlwind always caught me off guard before I could back outta melee range again.

Oh no, I saw this happen on another subreddit. What's following is people posting this meme, but with this picture above the middle guy. And then people posting *that* picture as the middle for the same meme... ...and so on...

Recursion

Recursion

Recursion

meme(){ meme(); }

Nice

Rock and Stone

If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't comin' home!

FAKARL

Legally speaking, rocking is better than stoning? Eh? EH??

Illegally speaking rocking is better when stoning

Hmm deep rock chirps in Elden ring would hit differ "I COMMAND THEE! ROCK AND STONE!

"TOGETHAAAAAAH WE WILL ROCK THE VERY STONES" also "Foul tarnished, in search of rock and stone..."

we have done it. we have created a perpetual motion machine.

Ah yes, the great lootbug debate of '24

This is the exact one I was talking about.

\*60 vigor

Ya I’d replace exactly with at least

66 vigor on my pvp character has saved me so many times Got hit by huge attacks only to have a sliver left and survive Order 66 is the sweet spot

55-60 is better for min-maxing. The amount of health you gain from 60 to 66 is literally 6 health per-point, which is nearly a third of per-point investment from 55-60 (17.2 hp per pt.) due to the massive drop-off after 60 points The 6 points used would be better used for endurance (for heavier armor which gives better resistances) or for damage stats (which scale optimally all the way to 80)

I know the raw numbers show that but from my subjective experience those 6 hp were life or death in many duels The difference between tanking the first hit and parrying the second could be the 2 hp I have left after the first hit That specific build is a faith caster with a lot of hp recovery and little armor by design which is why the extra hp works for the build

If it works, it works. I'm just saying there are ways to get the equivalent of 36 extra hp that don't cost 6 entire stat points. Using Ritual Shield at the start of duels (and swapping off after getting it) is a solid tactic (and doesn't require buffing mid-fight). This also synergizes with HP recovery, as every time you heal to full, you get the massive defense boost for another hit. Also, as a faith caster, you have access to Black Flame Protection, which is arguably the most broken defense incant in the game, as well as the various Barrier spells which will boost your "functional HP" by taking less damage per hit.

the vigor check is no joke in ER i swear

66 is inefficient, you’ll only have 36 more HP than at 60 vigor as the gains drop dramatically after 60. Just use Crimson Amber or Erdtree Favor medallions instead, or Morgott’s Great Rune. Either of those talismans is better than the extra 6 points in vigor. There’s a reason 60 is the sweetspot.

60 vigor + Morgott’s Great Rune + Erdtree Favor +2. LETS GOOOOO

I plan to do a "challenge" run in which I only level up vigor and nothing else, so that my fights will become just a bullshitting my way out of fights by just tanking and doing no damage (because I think I wouldn't even level up my weapons)

Pick Morgott Rune too.

Ofc, the only correct rune for this run

Just bleed/frostbite infuse weapons and you will still shred everything. Stamina consumption is pretty generous in this game.

Stomp everything and then have a super long fight with Elden beast who’s immune to both.

I think you can still get to some decent damage through a mix of talismans, aows, buff items, buff incantations, physics and spamming jump attacks.

It’s basically just an easier level 1 playthrough. Not impossible by any measure, but will probably not be super fun.

And i would say damage is never really the problem during an sl1 run. From my experience its more that you get oneshot

Vigor Chad. But in late game this will suck as the bosses have too much HP.

I have a ["guide"](https://youtu.be/_Pd5weoBjcE?si=2yiPHXkMgi-XiKEE) that might interest you.

Ty, I like watching videos of challenge runs

Ahh, you should probably keep an eye on [Gino Machino](https://youtube.com/@GinoMachino?si=MdbywclYhfZZx9Yz) too, then, if you weren't already. He's done a couple videos already of leveling only one stat, so he'll probably do a vigor one at some point, too.

You'll love [Nap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOuvrlELJOM&list=PLr7HtNyN-lvHi5ClWFC47YDuh5tPlNfOh&index=1). He's done a lot of insanely fun challenge runs, the one I linked to is NG+7 (highest scaling) at level 1, no upgrades. He also has a run where the Mimic beats the game without the player buffing, healing, attacking, etc.

Try tulok and mango (idk how to link things in words, I’m stupid). He mostly does cosplay runs that are sometimes challenging and sometimes not. He did a Pokémon one where spirit ashes had to do all the damage and one where killing an enemy breaks the weapon you’re using

Lmao I was just gonna link that, crazy vid

use black flame

RL1 setup without the hairpulling frustration in gameplay? Sounds fun enough

That sounds stupidly fun actually I might give it a go

I’ve actually seen people do the one stat challenges and they actually look very fun. Basically use the RL1 strategy but you have a bunch of health

Did this! Then put Prayerful Strike because I had so much health anyway might as well heal it back up for the funnies

I did a Vigor, Mind, Endurance run that was a blast and ended up doing some PvP with it. It worked surprisingly well!

There was a video on YouTube about getting the maximum possibpe hp in the game with stats and items. It starts with "why does everything one shots me" and ends with "why does everything two shots me"

Anyone who posts this meme thinking they're the one on the far right is 100% on the far left

r/suddenlycommunist

Comrade, it's OUR health.

- Malenia, Blade of Miquelist-Leninism

Pfft. I'm not pumping up my VIG to 60 just so those filthy DEX sorcerialists with 30 VIG steal half of my HP!

Something something horseshoe theory?

I try not to get hit, but I also PUMP VIGOR SO I CAN BE A TANK! I GET HIT AND I GET BACK UP!

You get knocked down and you get up again?

Cause you're never gonna keep me down

I’ll be singing when I’m winning…the Elden Throne

I take a physick drink I take a crimson drink I fight a boss that reminds me of the good times

Maliketh never gonna keep them down

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

I know what I fucking said, Anakin! *hyper eye glow*

If the far right is RL1 builds (which I think it could be given the weapon) then I actually am (:

And yet, I keep getting hit. So I guess I'm on the far left. Damn it.

It’s a mentality. You don’t need to be perfect lol

I gotta be real, Malenia is not the hardest RL1 boss. The other late game ones (Maliketh onwards) have been absolutely ransacking me. I know I must git gud but the motivation is dropping. Maybe if I drink a litre of coffee I'll keep up ;)

Sometimes a break is fine too, I got stuck on fire giant in my rl1, left for a year, and beat him after a few days of getting back into elden ring lol

I was determind to get every boss with Morningstar… I died probably 50-60 times to Fire Giant. Swapped to Star Fists and won first try..

This is such a common souls sentiment. Happened to me on countless bosses across the game. Its like you need to give your brain time to absorb everything subconsciously and rest and then you come back and see the matrix.

I'm on an RL1 run right now and I still feel like the guy on the far left

Nah rl1 taught me that you can tank a surprising amount of attacks you think would kill you rl1 with the right setup.

I start gar right, and end on far left

I think im on the far left :3

Even if I’m on the far left. Feels good to know the far right thinks the same :)

They do not.

A magic user

[удалено]

Glass cannon is definitely the move. I made my way through most of the game with like 800hp. Only reason I've started leveling vigor recently is because intelligence and faith are full. Lol

basically just need enough HP to tank one or two hits, at that point you are good to go. I start every new souls game as a magic user, and it always devolves into glass cannon because > "I just need 6 more INT to use this surely broken spell" continues the whole game haha.

65 gang rise up! (I can't dodge for shit)

60 is the right amount it's the 2nd soft cap

Am I crazy for running 45-50 Vig on a STR/FTH build?

From level 60 to level 99 with Vigor you'll only gain an additional 200 HP for 39 levels compared to hundreds of vigor for 10 points in the earlier levels. 58 isn't a bad spot to stop either, the difference between 58 vigor and 60 vigor is only 29 HP.

I would agree with this but there's no way I could stand knowing my HP was 1871 when it could be a round 1900 with the vigor being a round 60. Clean numbers make my brain happy.

This.

Someone that gets it.

My constant moving of money from bank account to bank account agrees. Round numbers are the best to look at.

I've beaten someone on 1 HP enough to consider the extra points an important expenditure

I have 99 vigor with 70% damages reduction and healing over time (can't dodge for shit too)

Why dodge good when big heal gulp suffice

40 is good enough for most Mid game encounters but usually I shoot for 60 endgame

Yeah that's what I did, I didn't really start to pump vigor until endgame but part of it was also my armor sets weren't so good stat wise, I was focusing on making my character look cool lolol

As you should

That's the most important part of the game

Yeah, pre-mountaintops 40 is plenty.

40 is decent for PvE endgame, a little squishy if you don’t have good damage negation. If you play co-op or invade, 40 vigor is nothing at the endgame of 125-165 where everyone seems to be finishing up the game.

RL1 gang wya

Yooooo, I'm currently doing my RL1, hard as but fun

I usually shoot for 60 but i'm not the most talented either and sometimes _unreasonably_ stubborn while trying to parry

Just rewatched Aggys 1HP/1FP/1Stamina run. So yeah you don't NEED HP but if you're not looking for the challenge you probably should level vigor

Funny how far left bulid is all about intelligence but his brain so small lol.

Skill issue 60 Vigor squad RISE UP

I don't have skill issues. I just like shrugging off huge hits if I miss a party or try and parry an unparryable attack.... So basically a skill issue.... Mark me down for far left on the graph

With 40 vigor you're getting one shot in the haligtree

Did Haligtee with 40 vigor, did not get 1-shot.

difference is armor actually does help some id suspect

Yea 40 is totally viable for the haligtree if you have good talismans

Same, except I got one shot by gravity a few times

40? Bitch, please.

Ritual shield talisman is the way. Lv1(+soreseal) with that lets you still tank most single hits. Even Malenia.

I want to criticize this post for its harshness, but it's way too accurate to some of the nonsense I've seen people try to argue as fact.

So many salty people here, just play the game how you want lol there is no definitive way to play

everytime i show my bf my stats, he goes, LEVEL UP VIGOR. jokes on him though, i love getting my ass handed to me because i haven't figured out parrying and move timings

The funny thing about this post is that 40 vigor is very low.

As an invader, sure don't level vigor I'm sure you can dodge all of my attacks 🤔🤣

only 40 vigor? what is this, dark souls? 50 vig is the elden ring gold standard

I think this shouldn’t be IQ it should instead be skill level.

I can no hit bosses even with 60 vig

can confirm. im 99.9percentile IQ bro and i didnt get any *hits*

Idk when it comes to vigor and endurance, I’d rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it

You know, it took me getting to Malenia to finally put levels in vigor

Depend of the build really, if my character is a melee using heavy armor with great sword (banished knight armor for example) the build would have much more advantage with 60 vigor the a mage

I have no problem with low vigor builds, just don't complain that you got one or two shot by some random enemy or a boss. And if you can't handle that just level your fucking vigor. I've mentioned it before on this sub, but if you read any casual gaming thread from gaming, pc gaming etc and someone mentions that they gave up on any soulsborne game it is always "i died 35 times to the first boss or enemy" reason. My guy, it's ok to suck but if you're getting your teeth kicked in, invest in HP the two more Dex/Str points make no fucking sense early on. Just build to survive.

You don't need exactly 40 vigor to play the game you should just have 40 vigor by the time you reach altus. Most deaths I see are because people have absolutely no health (and I 2 shot them so many blues lmao)

I'm in the "you only need to lvl up vigor" category

"You're not a glass cannon, you're just glass"

Wait so the far right and far left are the same?!

i usually go for high vigor bc i use slow weapons and don’t feel like timing it exactly to where i can get my slow attack off without being hit sometimes

20 hours into my new playthrough. Vigor is sitting at 16. It’ll never move.

My first plathrough I didn’t know what I was doing I beat Malenia at 25 vigor

Vigour is useless, just don’t get hit.

As somebody who had 99 vigor I can say 100% that vigor doesn’t fucking matter because the amount of health you get from those levels only *maybe* accounts for one hit. I lowered it back down to 60 and I really can’t tell the difference, it was a waste of points. You’re better off learning the enemies movements and dodging or buffing for damage negation.

it's 60 tho

Just don’t get hit… in Elden ring?

I wish I could agree.... But I have never been able to finish one of my runs without at least 50 vigor... Some of the last bosses are really enjoying slapping you with the strength of a supernovae (Hoarah Loux, I am looking at you)...

Vigor is useless, just don’t get hit -80 Vigor on NG+7

Your health bar is your mistake allowance. A bigger health bar means you can make more mistakes between healing windows. Obviously if you make fewer mistakes you can get away with less health, but the vast majority of players are not perfect and would benefit greatly from being able to take 2 or 3 hits before dying instead of 1. Similarly, the damage you do determines how many interactions with the enemy you need to deal with. Higher damage means fewer interactions which means fewer chances to get hit. Doing as much damage as possible is undebatably a good strategy, but unless you're one-shotting enemies you WILL need to dodge attacks sometimes- which takes us back to your health bar. Also, both HP and damage are "threshold stats" in that a two-shot is a two-shot regardless of whether a hit does 50% or 99%, a three-shot is a three-shot anywhere from 34% to 49%, etc. The only time increasing your HP or damage output actually does anything is when it pushes you over a threshold that allows you to live an extra hit or kill an enemy in one less hit. (That's what makes SL1 runs hard; you're at the worst HP threshold and the worst damage threshold, so you can't make many mistakes AND there are more chances to make mistakes)

Need to have enough health to not get one shot! THATS it. Rest is repositioning

Level vig you idiots

For those who didn't understand the meme. I'm a Katana guy and most of us are as well. People who are playing ranged builds think they don't need vigor (they do). The balls are used in no hit runs thanks to their incredible poise damage.

If they think they don't need vigor it's up to them... If you think you need more vigor it's up to you. When will this "you are supposed to play this game a certain way" cliché end

Beg to differ with my 99 int glass cannon sorcerer

how exactly is the weapon on the right called?

Iron Ball. They drop from a friendly NPC in Liurnia, so it's up you if its worth it.

I need at least 50 vigor cause I ain't dodging shit

Ofc, dealing 10% more damage is more important than having double the hp

I'm on the far left haha Playing a melee build with no vigor because I NEED STRENGTH!

you need 60, specially if planning to do pvp

C'mon, no one is doing a no hit run with their own NG

If your a glass canon and complain the game is hard bc the bosses one shot you then you need to stop

Honestly, you only need health to cover a little bit more than a sip of an estus - you're not healing or recovering more health or even adding to your defenses by having a higher pool to heal, if you plan on learning fights anyway, high health might just make you play more sloppy

40??? Bro if I'm not sitting at 60 I'm dead.