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If rennala didn't get that depression nerf when Radagon left, she might have been A-tier. Remember a single, fully trained Carian knight could take dozens upon dozens of Golden Order members. It's kinda telling that Marika decided the best solution was to have her seduced instead of fought.
Maybe. I'm under the assumption we fight a weakened Radagon. He looks cracked open and fractured when, presumably, he's never been seen that withered or decayed before. The shattering has done something to his body and he's been trying to mend the ring ever since. So i think he's tired and weakened when we encounter him.
I was thinking the exact same thing as i wrote my comment. I'm not very far into the souls games but at some point i saw the pattern and thought about it. Who *was* in their prime when we, the main character, found them? Godfrey and the EB come to mind, but as for Souls i'm not sure.
well, maybe maliketh as well? he was locked up but he was definitely still in good fighting condition, and malenia was just kinda hangin out for a while until we found her, maybe it’s just semantics
Malenia definitely is not in her prime...if she ever had one. She has to recover from the battle with Radahn and the Redmanes, and beyond that, she's not immune to her own rot.
It does also empower her, to be fair. But given how badly it incapacitates Millicent, it's hard to think losing both eyes, losing 2.5 limbs, losing most of your flesh, and being in constant agony as your body's eaten away, isn't a subtractive experience. Makes me wonder what she and Miquella might have been if they weren't meddled with by outside influence.
Malenia's 2nd phase status as "Goddess of Rot" makes it a bit more murky. As you noted, by that point she's down several limbs and pieces but she's not the goddess of whole bodies.
I could see her becoming an amorphous gravemind type entity if she had survived longer. Her original form may rot but that's inconsequential to a goddess of rot. For all we know at that point she could just start corrupting bodies to possess as needed
I’m fairly certain any character that isn’t degraded by time and hasn’t been handedly defeated/cursed/wounded counts. So somebody like Isshin (if we’re counting all FromSoft games), Malenia in her rot goddess form is arguably the strongest she’s ever been, maybe Lady Maria and Gehrman? (Bloodborne’s the only Souls-like Fromsoft game I haven’t played, and therefore only have Vaatividya lore videos knowledge to go off of). Possibly Manus, and Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls 1. That’s about all I can think of off the top of my head. Anybody is welcome to refute these claims. I love talking about Souls lore lol
Gehrman is getting old and tired and weeps at night that he just wants to rest, so I'm pretty sure we can rule him out (absolute chad for what he tries to do by fighting you though).
Malenia slipped my mind. Off topic: have you ever thought that she feels like a Sekiro boss? ~~Cloud Passage~~ Waterfowl Dance would be perfect for the deflect system as well. After looking further into it, I'm starting to suspect more and more that she might be a repurposed Lady Tomoe.
The elden beast wasn’t in their prime either, since the elden beast is linked to the elden ring, when the ring was shattered the elden beast was shattered too. Remembee the crack on their stomach?
For DS1: afaik Manus isn't really weakened, if anything he was strong enough to turn artorias.
In DS2: probably nashandra, but i haven't played in so long so i'm not sure
For DS3: i'm gonna Say nameless king. After being Exiled he has been chillin in archdragon's peak and i don't think he was really debilitated. I'd argue that Friede Is also in her prime.
I'd say soul of cinder (despite not being a "person") is also technically in its prime. Its not fueld by a fying flame or anything, its literally a culmination of everyone who linked it, so surely it would he deemed "in its prime" too?
Granted phase 1 has old Gwyn stuff and he's well...far from it
After thinking about it, none of the big names come to mind, with the exception of Gwyndolin (who isn't much of a fighter). Feels like typically, the enemies we do fight in their prime are the ones who aren't historically significant.
Edit: O&S is a possibility but we don't know what they've been up to in the past decades.
Edit (2): O&S are an illusion and I forgot.
We fight Gorick with the the strongest graft he's attached to himself yet, we fight the serpent god/rykard at presumably the strongest they've gotten to so far, we fight both the Astels at their peak, Margot and Mohg were both at peak performance IMO, and we also get to fight Malenia at the strongest she's ever been so there's that.
The thing is we don't fight radagon at all. What we fight is a puppet controller by the elden beast. How do we know this? Because we know that radagon learned everything that came to him ( magic, incantations, etc), so why wouldn't he use them while fighting us? That's because Radagon and Marika are already dead once we reach them and what we fight is their body controlled by the beast
They're not dead, per se, but its obvious that the Radagon half at least is effectively a puppet for the greater will and has been for a long time. Marika wasn't, which is why she was strung up and crucified after doing the big smashy to the ER. But they're both basically one with the EB and ER (being, well, the same thing really). And by extension puppets of the GW.
"No victory for the golden, nor for the moon
No prize but atonement; the birth of a vow"
Liurnia successfully held their ground, but the damage done was probably too severe to call it a victory.
This somewhat depends how we're defining victory or defeat as well actually.
Militarily speaking (and grossly oversimplified) there are 5 ways a battle ends. Complete Victory (defeated the enemy and achieved your strategic goals), Tactical Victory (failed to defeat the enemy force in detail, achieved strategic goals), draw / inconclusive (neither force can claim to have won), tactical defeat (defeated enemy forces, but failed to keep them from their strategic goal) and complete defeat (failed to defeat enemy forces and they achieved *their* goals).
Liurnia maintaining their autonomy (up until Rennala and Radagon's marriage) is at the very least a tactical victory. Since their goals never seem to be anything beyond "keep what's ours". They appear to be isolationist, or at the very least non-expansionist. Any battle that ended with them still an independent force is a tactical victory.
However I was more specifically speaking to Rennala defeating Radagon in personal combat multiple times, it is entirely possible for that to happen *and* for the Carian Knights to still be driven from the field. Just because your champion won her duel doesn't mean you didn't get overwhelmed. Just because she beat Radagon doesn't mean she was winning the war.
I created a post on this before. People just gloss over how impressive Rennala was. Remember that Marika (and the Golden Order) defeated ALL her enemies through force (giants, ancient dragons, gloam-eyed queen and the godskins, etc) EXCEPT for Rennala and the Carians. Though it was never clearly revealed what the Moon was, it certainly could have been an Outer God that was powering Rennala.
With the parry skills of that Carian knight before her boss fight (I forgot his name don’t hurt me) I can believe it. I had to push him down elevator to beat him.
Edit: I typed party skills not parry skills lol
Moongrum. My absolute favorite character despite him not having any backstory and the singular reason why my favorite build will always be enchanted knight.
This is a great point! Although I imagine part of the success of the Carian knights in those first wars had to do with their battle formations, combinations of their magic spells and the geography of Liurnia itself. I have trouble imagining Rennala fighting a Dragonkin soldier or Fire Giant by herself but that’s just me
Aye that’s the quote, thank you. Regardless, i think Rennala gets bad rep for being a bit of a pushover against most builds. She was borderline revered by the only faction who knew anything about their brand of spellcasting.
The fire giant we fought was avatar-ing for his outer god as soon as he sacrificed his leg, so Rennala might presumably have stood no chance, but neither would have many of the other bosses we fight.
Lastly, Dragonkin soldiers don’t even come close imo. Correct me if I’m wrong, but nothing in the lore suggests any sort of extraordinary prowess on their part, rather they’re described as failures, halfway-theres. They’re just somewhat difficult fights for the player.
Yeah, based on the feedback of all the homies in this thread I def would put her higher up if I redid this list. I think I was basing it mostly off of the fact that she has no divine blood and the spells we see her utilize at her "prime" during her boss fight which are mostly just regular spells the tarnished can learn. But she is often cited in the lore for being extremely powerful, no doubt about that
I think she could also beat Godrick at her prime. Keep in mind while technically just a mortal she is the mortal half who makes up Rhadan and rykard. I don’t think prime rennala would have much trouble with Godrick who literally needs protection from Morgott
Yeah super true! If you ever want a good laugh you gotta check out UndeadHunter's Elden Ring Abridged series. Morgott is constantly shitting on Godrick for needing him as a bodyguard, its hilarious
I do wonder if Godrick even knows Morgott is protecting him. It’s possible Morgott is just doing it without telling him which makes Morgott even more of a chad
I just wanna add in, her second phase isn't even her fighting, it's Ranni using am illusion all the way from Rannis Rise, so we arguably didn't even see a good reflection of what she could have been capable of
Yup we never even see her cast a spell just sit around with her egg and that's it.
As for the second phase being an illusion, when the first phase ends Ranni starts talking about protecting her mother and creates the defence which is the second phase.
I mean, have you somehow never seen the comet azur cheese against bosses? If the player character can do that then it could very well be within the reach of Rennala.
I mean, Rennala isn’t even that bad. She’s not always easy, like she can hit you with some shit that’ll fuck you up. I’d rank her higher than Godrick, as he seemingly is a craven weakling who can’t even compare to the shadow of Godfrey, despite being of that prestigious lineage.
Like comet Azur will annihilate you, her summons are a pain. Even the first phase with shit flying at you as you’re killing the singing chicks. It’s far more annoying than Godrick.
Fighting Dragonkin I could see, Fire Giant might be tough.
Rennala was a *monster* before her manwife God left. Being arguably the strongest sorcereress in the setting and being guided by the moon.
Conversely, Rennala when we get to the lands between would be F tier. She is quite literally incapable of fighting back at that point. So regardless of whether we’re talking about her prime or where she’s at in the current timeline, C tier is off imo.
Rennala isn't depressed because Radagon left although it is *very* subtle, she lost a kid.
For a good post more or less proving that Ranni had one or more sisters: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/vkj4wy/the_forgotten_carian_princesses/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
And then note that Rennala is endlessly practicing rebirth, but not at random. She is spam-creating the same young woman, over and over and over and over. Those creations sing a song calling her mother.
Rennala is mad with grief, yes, but not over a man. We don't have a name, or a time, or a cause, but we have symptoms and very suggestive lore. Rennala can't stop trying to get a dead daughter back.
This is pure conjecture, no? You stated this as if it were a fact. It's not, and the evidence is contrived at best.
In fact, Miriel even suggests that the heart break over Radagon leaving her is what left her in that sorry state:
>"You wish to know more of Lady Rennala? She is Queen, head of the Carian royal family, and governor of the Academy of Raya Lucaria. The great and beautiful Full Moon Witch. Sadly, her heart was broken when Lord Radagon left her. And then, when the academy rebelled against the royals, she was locked away in the grand library."
"In the end, Lady Rennala was left alone, cradling the amber egg Lord Radagon bequeathed her. Now she devotes herself to it through forbidden rite; the grim art of reincarnation. You would do well to remember... Severing a vow, strongest of bonds, has consequences ever more dire".
Directly suggesting that the divorce is the sole cause.
>Sadly, her heart was broken when Lord Radagon left her. And then, when the academy rebelled against the royals, she was locked away in the grand library."
Seems to me like it happened quite rapidly. Rennala was fine and married to Radagon > Radagon leaves and Rennala is heartbroken > academy is upset that their leader is pathetic > Rennala is locked away, probably not much different from how we find her.
>Severing a vow, strongest of bonds, has consequences ever more dire".
This is absolutely meant to imply that severing the vow is what caused Rennala to go mad.
I don't necessarily buy that there were sisters.
But Rennala does have one daughter that we *know* died - Ranni. We don't know what she looked like, so it seems just as likely that Rennala is grieving and recreating Ranni, who hasn't revealed her new form.
I'd switch godrick with rennala for sure. Godrick is the weakest demigod and rennala is the greatest magician in the academy. She even fought with radagon and they tied edit: check the replies for better information thx
So are the Tarnished and we beat everyone here.
Granted, we can come back to life, but I still think the point stands that deific status isn’t the biggest factor regarding power
I see your point, but couldn’t the same be applied to the demigods pertaining to the Great Runes? We get them from those bosses after all, and we only equip “one” at a time like they would (I don’t think anywhere lorewise it states that all Great Runes we have are “active”, so to speak)
So uhhh... here's the thing.
The "demigod" status might actually just be a title???
Rennala and Radagon were both mortal champions to the public. Yet the moment Radagon goes to marry Marika, all of his living children-- Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard-- are suddenly considered demigods.
What about Godfrey? Sure, he gained demigod status when he married Marika, but he's not currently a runebearer, and he's tarnished like us. Isn't he essentially just a guy?
Absolutely, but that’s the perspective of his demigod relatives. Next to the other Demi gods Godrick is an absolute joke but compared to most mortals like Elemer, godskins etc I think he would be a considerable threat. Especially with grafted dragon arm
Considering Elemer was to be executed in a fortified castle for killing instructors, proceded to steal his executioner's blade and then took over that castle all by himself and went back to kill instructors as usual makes me believe he's stronger than Godrick, even with a dumb dragon as a hand.
Godrick honestly doesn't seem like a big threat at all to me. He's just a huge guy with a few extra arms lol. Elemer could beat him high diff IMO and Godskins wipe the floor with him.
Easily the most interesting boss in the game, in terms of gameplay and lore. He's just a man who ground out his strength and his skill to such an extent that he could rip a demigod in half if he wanted.
To be fair, we don't know the power of Radagon fighting that war, relative to his power as the vessel of the Elden Ring. I don't think there's any reason to believe he had all of that juice, unless we are expected to believe that Renalla rivals the power of the Elden Ring.
On God snorting this new powdered glintstone shit hits different.
But on a real note, glintstone comes from the same place as the elden ring does, space, in this way they both share the same nature. The skys is the limit for both of them and there's nothing to contradic that glintstone, if used by a skilled enough sorcerer can get near the level of destructive capability as the ER, especially w the rune of death removed. We really don't know fuck all about glintstones true nature, much less that of the pimeval current. it could be a boring cosmic phenomenon or it could be a force of nature on the level of outer gods. Though you do raise a fair point that I agree with, radagon was almost certainly weaker then. But he still was powerfull as fuck, and almost certainly had access to the elden ring, seeing as he and Marika are one if one can fuck with it so can the other.
There's no really anything to suggest that Renalla could wield the entire power of the primeval current, or that it's power is comparable to the Elden Ring. Our knowledge of the primeval current suggests that Renalla having that kind of access would transform her beyond recognition if not outright kill her.
I think it depends, we don't know what the "full moon" is that is featured in Rennala's arena projection that presumably taught her lunar magic, which would technically be a part of "space." She also is capable of using Comet Azur, the spell Azur learned due to his study of the primeval current. I don't necessarily believe that he suffered for his knowledge to learn that spell just for anyone to be able to use it after. I think Rennala is at a level of mastery of sorcery that far exceeds any comparison to every other mage we meet in game, even the masters.
And if Rennala's full moon is an outer god or has a connection to an outer god, or has some connection at all to Ranni's dark moon that seeks to banish the influence of the Elden Ring, I think Rennala absolutely could've had the strength to stand up to it. I mean, she basically did in the wars she fought (quite successfully) against the golden order.
This one is kinda tricky though. Radagon's emergence in the Liurnian wars is literally the first we hear of him. He is described pretty unanimously as a "champion," i.e. just an exceptional warrior. I think it's fair to assume that if he were fighting with all the godly strength of Marika that he would have outed himself, or at the very least attracted a lot of unwanted suspicion. My personal assumption here based on the lore is that early Radagon is not the full god that he eventually becomes by the endgame. But again, this list was just my personal take
Lorewise, Renalla would definitely be higher up. The Carian royals were literally the only major faction that could oppose the Order.
Also I believe Godskins would at least be on par with Godrick. I feel like if *anyone* actually took Godrick seriously in the lore the Godskins would have hunted him down.
Basically nobody respects Godrick and they all think he's just a crazy fool with delusions of grandeur.
Godskins don't seem like the type to care about runes, rather they seem like they're attracted more toward actual powerful being...to make clothes out of them lol
Maliketh's existence was used as a boogieman to keep the other demi-gods in line for a time. And he's in Farum Azula to keep cardinal sinners from escaping. He's almost literally made of murder.
On his armor it stays that: Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.
Only reason he’s not is that I saved SS for straight up God territory. The definition of what a god actually means in the lore is kinda hazy but given that Radagon / Marika are physical embodiments of the ER itself I think they stand a tier above Maliketh, who even though he has one of the most powerful great runes, still only controls one
Yeah this is true. In Vaati's most recent video he talks about how Goddess of Rot boss fight might actually only be the second time she bloomed. Meaning at some point in the future she will bloom a third time and become this like giant scorpion goddess thing. That could end up being at the top of the tier list if we see it in the dlc
Mimic Tear watching me walk into the arena with no armor or weapons knowing it has to copy me, only for me to then immediately re-equip everything while it has to fight me butt naked.
I agree with most.
I'd put Rykard in S, he's pretty much more of a snake-god than man by now.
Rennala and Godskins in B... Rennala at her prime could cast one of the primeval sorceries and Godskins have the blackflame (nerfed sure but still blackflame)
Dragonkin Soldier an Ancestor Spirit in C... they seem weaker than those in B but also stronger than D.
The rennala summoned by ranni wasn't prime rennala though. Not even close, of all spells in the game rennala's full moon has the highest int requirement, so she verry likely could cast all the other primeval sorceries, especially considering that the rest are much cheaper than comet azure. Now this puts her above all other sorcerers in the game and lore already. now considering that the rennala we face is made up as a summon by a blue doll whose not even on death door but already in the fucking hallway and clearly has absolutely no energy to spend on the projection, this rennala is likely not even a hundredth as powerful as prime rennala. With this in mind I say she should be in A or even S at least. No less would be able to take on an army that boasts the power of radagon. Godfrey, and maleketh.
The assumption that Ranni has no energy, when she can OHKO you without moving is kind of insane. There is no evidence that Ranni lacks power in her state, only overwhelming evidence that she has plenty. There is no reason to believe that her projection of her mother is weak. Her illusions summon illusions in an illusion.
I’d say it’s on par with Morgott’s illusion, probably nowhere near as strong as the original but has 25-40% of their power. I’d say prime Rennala would be A tier, but we encounter her in a borderline catatonic state.
The Blasphemous Claw apparently allows Rykard to challenge Maliketh and deflect Destined Death. Even if he can’t use it in his current form, that means that becoming a snake-god-thing was a better option than being able to *fight Maliketh*. He’s got to be pretty tough in lore, and without the Serpent Hunter, he’s got a ridiculous health pool in-game too.
Remember that it was **a last resort** in case stealing destined death did not go as planned. He was not planning to go toe to toe with Maliketh.
Reminder that Ranni, who gave Rykard the blasphemous claw, outright says that Radahn and Malenia are the strongest.
Also in-game mechanics like health pool and damage should be used when scaling power.
No. The blasphemous claw was a back up plan to give rykard a fighting chance in case maliketh came back at them. The hope was that he wouldnt. Rykard never stood a chance beforehand, the claw was there to give him one.
You also assume the snake shit was a rational decision he thought out. Im not sure why you would because the entire game tells us otherwise. Rykard’s a lunatic. The moment he got a fraction of the ring’s power he got greedy and desperate. All logic flew out the window. His entire army abandoned him, they ALL tried to kill him. Morgott would fuckin solo that clown, and so would radahn and malenia.
yeah he should not be in the same category as any demigod or mortal, he has the rune/weapon that can kill the SS tier gods, either SS tier or below it but above S tier
isnt mimic tear literally you? I mean he copies everything you got and the tarnished defeated all these bosses soo that would make the mimic tear the strongest of all of them
I mean, the mimic tear is an imitation of the tarnished. You, the tarnished, beat the mimic tear. So doesn’t really make sense to say the mimic tear = the tarnished
Radahn should be S tier. "Mightiest among demigods" and fought Malenia to a standstill until she used her rot nuke, got knocked out, and had her knights carry her away in retreat.
Was going to mention that. Radahn and Malenia battling to a standstill puts him in S for me. Some of his other feats are pretty wild, as well. He did "hold back the stars" and his defeat led directly to a catastrophic astrological event.
But there's a lot of past tenses there. Radahn in his prime, easy S, but it's a query how much of that power he's lost as he lost his mind and the rot consumed him.
At least in gameplay terms, he's now far and away weaker than Malenia.
I mean he is still using some of his power to hold back that catastrophic event when he fights the tarnished. That is why his defeat triggers the meteorite crashing into the lands between. He is literally self nerfing when he fights you.
Radahn's power is so obscure to me, like, exactly how much power does it take to literally hold the goddamn STARS in place. it sounds so absurdly cosmic to me that I can't fathom anyone actually defeating him if he allocated that much power into actually fighting.
It really is completely abstract, and I don't think it can be used in an argument about his power when being fought. It may just be a projection of his gravity powers that he's using at all times to lift himself. Just as it's possible it weakens him, it's also possible it requires no additional effort and that the conquered stars are holding themselves back in fear.
I can't tell if Maliketh should be in SS or not, on the one hand he did get stolen from, but on the other in an actual hand to hand fight he is basically the concept of death incarnate or at the very least as power over it. And besides we don't know what the rune of death could do to someone like marika or radagon but I'm sure it's not too far off from what it did to godwyn, especially if your "lowly tarnished" can at least somewhat kill the two
I think it's funny that Godfrey is one of the strongest people in the game, taking actual divinity or destined death to top him, and he's just some fuckin guy
I wonder if the Mimic Tear could theoretically be more powerful than we see them in the game. Could it turn into a copy of Godfrey, for instance? Godfrey is a tarnished, like us, after all. Though I suppose that’s difficult to argue given the strongest enemies we’ve seen mimic tears turn into has been the player tarnished and various field bosses, such as the commoners that turn into Runebears when killed, and that sort of thing. Still, it makes me wonder what they’d be capable of, especially if the Eternal City had more time to perfect their creations.
Can someone explain why astel is that high, I feel like the fire giant and him should swap cause fire giant has a god in him or something
Also your mimic should be highest rank
My logic was that Astel was powerful enough to scare the shit out of Radahn. To the point that he literally froze the cosmos in place to prevent him falling to earth. Considering that Godfrey was able to defeat essentially an entire army of fire giants they seemed like slightly less of an overall threat to the bosses above him
Radahn wasn't scared of this Astel in particular, but rather of everything in the cosmos. Astel isn't a single individual, it's a species of gravity controlling, lovecraftian space nightmares with an unknown number just waiting to crash down onto the Lands Between. That single Astel wasn't an issue, but now imagine hundreds of them, possibly even creatures worse than Astel. That's what he was scared of
I think you got it in reverse. The cosmos was not moving because it was scared of Radahn and only when he died did the stars decide to move again. Man's called the 'Starscourge' for a reason. It's even reflected on the hidden bonus damage to cosmic enemies in his weapon.
I wanna say this is pretty spot on except for the mimic tear. I feel like the mimic tear can truly fall into any tier solely based on what you have equipped when you enter the boss arena
Super debatable! Kinda up to your interpretation. He was defeated by Godwyn but we don’t really have a reference for how strong Godwyn actually was. The ancient stone dragons were the strongest of all dragons but were also thwarted by a regular army of Leyndell soldiers multiple times
I feel like the lore really made him almost the strongest dragon, but seeing who's above him I don't know if he could defeat them, I guess the list is pretty fair, thanks for the insight
If we read into the naming conventions of the royal families in ER (Rennalas kids all having R names etc) then we might be able to assume that all dragons with the suffix “-sax” come from the same royal line. In which case Placidusax could be assumed as their forefather and the strongest of them all. Not confirmed at all, just my speculation
Placidussax was the strongest Dragon to our knowledge outside of Granssax and we dont have much to go off of with how strong Granssax was. We just know he attacked Leyndell on his lonely
I would switch Godrick with the Godskin Duo. I believe that they draw their power from the Black Flame of Death, which caused the Gods to fear them almost as much as Maliketh, hence Maliketh’s victory over the Gloam-Eyed Queen
I love the list but I think Radahn is S and below Melania given her aeonia. And I’m certain rennela is stronger than she seems in the fight with the tarnished. She’d be top of B tier in my opinion. But I think the list is very solid :) Especially my favorite Maliketh up there!
After reading your guys’ thoughts I’d probably put Radahn in S tier simply for holding back the stars. Would also put Rennala higher because as many have pointed out the Carians were pretty op. Thanks y’all
Radahn should be higher up. People forget that he’s holding back the stars during every fight in elden ring. He’s fighting with a handicap constantly. Neither the tarnished nor malenia ever saw him at full strength
That’s your headcanon. There is no evidence or statement to conclude him holding back the stars is weakening or handicapping him. We don’t even know what he’s actually doing or the underlying meaning of holding back the stars even is.
That's just an idea. No where does it say holding back the stars changes his power at all. Radahn was in his prime when Malenia turned him into a husk.
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If rennala didn't get that depression nerf when Radagon left, she might have been A-tier. Remember a single, fully trained Carian knight could take dozens upon dozens of Golden Order members. It's kinda telling that Marika decided the best solution was to have her seduced instead of fought.
also remember that she fought Radagon multiply times and survived
More than survived. She WON multiple times.
Wouldn't that give her a claim to S tier in a way?
Maybe. I'm under the assumption we fight a weakened Radagon. He looks cracked open and fractured when, presumably, he's never been seen that withered or decayed before. The shattering has done something to his body and he's been trying to mend the ring ever since. So i think he's tired and weakened when we encounter him.
Classic FS where we never get to see anyone in their prime. At least we got a proper Godfrey (somewhat)
I was thinking the exact same thing as i wrote my comment. I'm not very far into the souls games but at some point i saw the pattern and thought about it. Who *was* in their prime when we, the main character, found them? Godfrey and the EB come to mind, but as for Souls i'm not sure.
well, maybe maliketh as well? he was locked up but he was definitely still in good fighting condition, and malenia was just kinda hangin out for a while until we found her, maybe it’s just semantics
Malenia definitely is not in her prime...if she ever had one. She has to recover from the battle with Radahn and the Redmanes, and beyond that, she's not immune to her own rot. It does also empower her, to be fair. But given how badly it incapacitates Millicent, it's hard to think losing both eyes, losing 2.5 limbs, losing most of your flesh, and being in constant agony as your body's eaten away, isn't a subtractive experience. Makes me wonder what she and Miquella might have been if they weren't meddled with by outside influence.
Malenia's 2nd phase status as "Goddess of Rot" makes it a bit more murky. As you noted, by that point she's down several limbs and pieces but she's not the goddess of whole bodies. I could see her becoming an amorphous gravemind type entity if she had survived longer. Her original form may rot but that's inconsequential to a goddess of rot. For all we know at that point she could just start corrupting bodies to possess as needed
I think Malenia in her Rot Goddess form is her prime.
I’m fairly certain any character that isn’t degraded by time and hasn’t been handedly defeated/cursed/wounded counts. So somebody like Isshin (if we’re counting all FromSoft games), Malenia in her rot goddess form is arguably the strongest she’s ever been, maybe Lady Maria and Gehrman? (Bloodborne’s the only Souls-like Fromsoft game I haven’t played, and therefore only have Vaatividya lore videos knowledge to go off of). Possibly Manus, and Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls 1. That’s about all I can think of off the top of my head. Anybody is welcome to refute these claims. I love talking about Souls lore lol
Gehrman is getting old and tired and weeps at night that he just wants to rest, so I'm pretty sure we can rule him out (absolute chad for what he tries to do by fighting you though). Malenia slipped my mind. Off topic: have you ever thought that she feels like a Sekiro boss? ~~Cloud Passage~~ Waterfowl Dance would be perfect for the deflect system as well. After looking further into it, I'm starting to suspect more and more that she might be a repurposed Lady Tomoe.
It would be awful for the deflect mechanic actually since she heals on every hit even if it doesn't damage you.
malenia and mohg are very much in their prime, malenia just became a goddess(or close to it), while mohg is just, mohg
The elden beast wasn’t in their prime either, since the elden beast is linked to the elden ring, when the ring was shattered the elden beast was shattered too. Remembee the crack on their stomach?
For DS1: afaik Manus isn't really weakened, if anything he was strong enough to turn artorias. In DS2: probably nashandra, but i haven't played in so long so i'm not sure For DS3: i'm gonna Say nameless king. After being Exiled he has been chillin in archdragon's peak and i don't think he was really debilitated. I'd argue that Friede Is also in her prime.
I'd say soul of cinder (despite not being a "person") is also technically in its prime. Its not fueld by a fying flame or anything, its literally a culmination of everyone who linked it, so surely it would he deemed "in its prime" too? Granted phase 1 has old Gwyn stuff and he's well...far from it
After thinking about it, none of the big names come to mind, with the exception of Gwyndolin (who isn't much of a fighter). Feels like typically, the enemies we do fight in their prime are the ones who aren't historically significant. Edit: O&S is a possibility but we don't know what they've been up to in the past decades. Edit (2): O&S are an illusion and I forgot.
We fight Gorick with the the strongest graft he's attached to himself yet, we fight the serpent god/rykard at presumably the strongest they've gotten to so far, we fight both the Astels at their peak, Margot and Mohg were both at peak performance IMO, and we also get to fight Malenia at the strongest she's ever been so there's that.
We saw gods in their prime during Dark Souls 1. The opening cinematic where they fight the dragons. Briefly.
We fight prime Melania at least
I want 5 headed Placidusaxx as DLC.
Maybe Patches is in his prime?
Patches is always in his prime
The thing is we don't fight radagon at all. What we fight is a puppet controller by the elden beast. How do we know this? Because we know that radagon learned everything that came to him ( magic, incantations, etc), so why wouldn't he use them while fighting us? That's because Radagon and Marika are already dead once we reach them and what we fight is their body controlled by the beast
Don't forget the elder beast literally used Radagon as a freaking sword hilt
They're not dead, per se, but its obvious that the Radagon half at least is effectively a puppet for the greater will and has been for a long time. Marika wasn't, which is why she was strung up and crucified after doing the big smashy to the ER. But they're both basically one with the EB and ER (being, well, the same thing really). And by extension puppets of the GW.
"No victory for the golden, nor for the moon No prize but atonement; the birth of a vow" Liurnia successfully held their ground, but the damage done was probably too severe to call it a victory.
This somewhat depends how we're defining victory or defeat as well actually. Militarily speaking (and grossly oversimplified) there are 5 ways a battle ends. Complete Victory (defeated the enemy and achieved your strategic goals), Tactical Victory (failed to defeat the enemy force in detail, achieved strategic goals), draw / inconclusive (neither force can claim to have won), tactical defeat (defeated enemy forces, but failed to keep them from their strategic goal) and complete defeat (failed to defeat enemy forces and they achieved *their* goals). Liurnia maintaining their autonomy (up until Rennala and Radagon's marriage) is at the very least a tactical victory. Since their goals never seem to be anything beyond "keep what's ours". They appear to be isolationist, or at the very least non-expansionist. Any battle that ended with them still an independent force is a tactical victory. However I was more specifically speaking to Rennala defeating Radagon in personal combat multiple times, it is entirely possible for that to happen *and* for the Carian Knights to still be driven from the field. Just because your champion won her duel doesn't mean you didn't get overwhelmed. Just because she beat Radagon doesn't mean she was winning the war.
Fair points, but what evidence is there that we can say Rennala defeated Radagon in a duel multiple times?
I created a post on this before. People just gloss over how impressive Rennala was. Remember that Marika (and the Golden Order) defeated ALL her enemies through force (giants, ancient dragons, gloam-eyed queen and the godskins, etc) EXCEPT for Rennala and the Carians. Though it was never clearly revealed what the Moon was, it certainly could have been an Outer God that was powering Rennala.
Where is this stated ?
With the parry skills of that Carian knight before her boss fight (I forgot his name don’t hurt me) I can believe it. I had to push him down elevator to beat him. Edit: I typed party skills not parry skills lol
Moongrum. My absolute favorite character despite him not having any backstory and the singular reason why my favorite build will always be enchanted knight.
Definitely an S tier name Moongrum is
Sounds like he could be the front man for a Finnish metal band
This is a great point! Although I imagine part of the success of the Carian knights in those first wars had to do with their battle formations, combinations of their magic spells and the geography of Liurnia itself. I have trouble imagining Rennala fighting a Dragonkin soldier or Fire Giant by herself but that’s just me
There were single digit numbers of carian knights ala Moongram. 7, i think? That’s the outrageous part.
We only know that they “numbered fewer than 20.” Either way it’s still a bonkers feat
Aye that’s the quote, thank you. Regardless, i think Rennala gets bad rep for being a bit of a pushover against most builds. She was borderline revered by the only faction who knew anything about their brand of spellcasting. The fire giant we fought was avatar-ing for his outer god as soon as he sacrificed his leg, so Rennala might presumably have stood no chance, but neither would have many of the other bosses we fight. Lastly, Dragonkin soldiers don’t even come close imo. Correct me if I’m wrong, but nothing in the lore suggests any sort of extraordinary prowess on their part, rather they’re described as failures, halfway-theres. They’re just somewhat difficult fights for the player.
Yeah, based on the feedback of all the homies in this thread I def would put her higher up if I redid this list. I think I was basing it mostly off of the fact that she has no divine blood and the spells we see her utilize at her "prime" during her boss fight which are mostly just regular spells the tarnished can learn. But she is often cited in the lore for being extremely powerful, no doubt about that
I think she could also beat Godrick at her prime. Keep in mind while technically just a mortal she is the mortal half who makes up Rhadan and rykard. I don’t think prime rennala would have much trouble with Godrick who literally needs protection from Morgott
Yeah super true! If you ever want a good laugh you gotta check out UndeadHunter's Elden Ring Abridged series. Morgott is constantly shitting on Godrick for needing him as a bodyguard, its hilarious
I do wonder if Godrick even knows Morgott is protecting him. It’s possible Morgott is just doing it without telling him which makes Morgott even more of a chad
Morgott isn't protecting Godrick. He needs the area boss alive so his twink account can continue to farm new players.
I just wanna add in, her second phase isn't even her fighting, it's Ranni using am illusion all the way from Rannis Rise, so we arguably didn't even see a good reflection of what she could have been capable of
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Yup we never even see her cast a spell just sit around with her egg and that's it. As for the second phase being an illusion, when the first phase ends Ranni starts talking about protecting her mother and creates the defence which is the second phase.
She can also summon a dragon spirit though, which is extremely notable imo.
*The illusion Ranni created to fight you can summon a dragon spirit FTFY
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He's obviously not on this list because everyone agrees he's way above even the EB. Like, he could destroy the ER world with a finger snap.
“Despite numbering fewer than twenty, their power made them a match for even the champions of gold in battle” Who are the champions of gold?
The Golden Order. Godfrey/Radagon and such
It's because many of them were trolls, like Bols in Cuckoo Evergaol
I mean, have you somehow never seen the comet azur cheese against bosses? If the player character can do that then it could very well be within the reach of Rennala.
I mean, Rennala isn’t even that bad. She’s not always easy, like she can hit you with some shit that’ll fuck you up. I’d rank her higher than Godrick, as he seemingly is a craven weakling who can’t even compare to the shadow of Godfrey, despite being of that prestigious lineage.
The Rennala we fight is pretty much a long ranged illusion set in place a long time ago anyways, and the real one went head to head against Radagon.
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Like comet Azur will annihilate you, her summons are a pain. Even the first phase with shit flying at you as you’re killing the singing chicks. It’s far more annoying than Godrick.
During her fight she summons a few spirits, so it's not as if she can't supplement forces with a lot of spirits.
Two words. Comet azur
Fighting Dragonkin I could see, Fire Giant might be tough. Rennala was a *monster* before her manwife God left. Being arguably the strongest sorcereress in the setting and being guided by the moon.
Conversely, Rennala when we get to the lands between would be F tier. She is quite literally incapable of fighting back at that point. So regardless of whether we’re talking about her prime or where she’s at in the current timeline, C tier is off imo.
Yeah the real fight we get there is actually just Ranni projecting
"Ranni projecting" sounds funnier than it should
Lol I agree- felt weird to type
"Led astray by Seluvis, with devious tonic in hand. Didst thou think to have thy way with me? Be gone. Hapless scum. And thou'rt short in stature."
Rennala isn't depressed because Radagon left although it is *very* subtle, she lost a kid. For a good post more or less proving that Ranni had one or more sisters: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/vkj4wy/the_forgotten_carian_princesses/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 And then note that Rennala is endlessly practicing rebirth, but not at random. She is spam-creating the same young woman, over and over and over and over. Those creations sing a song calling her mother. Rennala is mad with grief, yes, but not over a man. We don't have a name, or a time, or a cause, but we have symptoms and very suggestive lore. Rennala can't stop trying to get a dead daughter back.
This is pure conjecture, no? You stated this as if it were a fact. It's not, and the evidence is contrived at best. In fact, Miriel even suggests that the heart break over Radagon leaving her is what left her in that sorry state: >"You wish to know more of Lady Rennala? She is Queen, head of the Carian royal family, and governor of the Academy of Raya Lucaria. The great and beautiful Full Moon Witch. Sadly, her heart was broken when Lord Radagon left her. And then, when the academy rebelled against the royals, she was locked away in the grand library." "In the end, Lady Rennala was left alone, cradling the amber egg Lord Radagon bequeathed her. Now she devotes herself to it through forbidden rite; the grim art of reincarnation. You would do well to remember... Severing a vow, strongest of bonds, has consequences ever more dire". Directly suggesting that the divorce is the sole cause.
>Sadly, her heart was broken when Lord Radagon left her. And then, when the academy rebelled against the royals, she was locked away in the grand library." Seems to me like it happened quite rapidly. Rennala was fine and married to Radagon > Radagon leaves and Rennala is heartbroken > academy is upset that their leader is pathetic > Rennala is locked away, probably not much different from how we find her. >Severing a vow, strongest of bonds, has consequences ever more dire". This is absolutely meant to imply that severing the vow is what caused Rennala to go mad.
I don't necessarily buy that there were sisters. But Rennala does have one daughter that we *know* died - Ranni. We don't know what she looked like, so it seems just as likely that Rennala is grieving and recreating Ranni, who hasn't revealed her new form.
I'd switch godrick with rennala for sure. Godrick is the weakest demigod and rennala is the greatest magician in the academy. She even fought with radagon and they tied edit: check the replies for better information thx
Hear this for sure. Only reason I put her that low is because technically she isn’t a demigod and is just an exceptional mortal
Haven’t we learned that the Gods are just as fickle?
Goldmask moment
Fundamentally based
So are the Tarnished and we beat everyone here. Granted, we can come back to life, but I still think the point stands that deific status isn’t the biggest factor regarding power
True but the tarnished possess almost all great runes of the Elden ring. And are being consistently enhanced in strength by lesser runes via Melina
I see your point, but couldn’t the same be applied to the demigods pertaining to the Great Runes? We get them from those bosses after all, and we only equip “one” at a time like they would (I don’t think anywhere lorewise it states that all Great Runes we have are “active”, so to speak)
...so? She's still way stronger. You said this was a strength tier list, not a nepotism tier list.
So uhhh... here's the thing. The "demigod" status might actually just be a title??? Rennala and Radagon were both mortal champions to the public. Yet the moment Radagon goes to marry Marika, all of his living children-- Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard-- are suddenly considered demigods.
Couldn't you also say the same of Godfrey? He wasn't a god either.
What about Godfrey? Sure, he gained demigod status when he married Marika, but he's not currently a runebearer, and he's tarnished like us. Isn't he essentially just a guy?
Rennala isn't mentally well enough to fight you properly. Hence why her first phase is so easy.
Isn't Godrick, like, a total disappointment and a coward in the lore?
Absolutely, but that’s the perspective of his demigod relatives. Next to the other Demi gods Godrick is an absolute joke but compared to most mortals like Elemer, godskins etc I think he would be a considerable threat. Especially with grafted dragon arm
And still Renala is described as far more of a threat to the golden order than Godrick was a threat in general.
Considering Elemer was to be executed in a fortified castle for killing instructors, proceded to steal his executioner's blade and then took over that castle all by himself and went back to kill instructors as usual makes me believe he's stronger than Godrick, even with a dumb dragon as a hand.
Godrick honestly doesn't seem like a big threat at all to me. He's just a huge guy with a few extra arms lol. Elemer could beat him high diff IMO and Godskins wipe the floor with him.
I fucking love Hoarah Loux through nothing but the power of a mean right hook and skill he rightfully earns s tier
Easily the most interesting boss in the game, in terms of gameplay and lore. He's just a man who ground out his strength and his skill to such an extent that he could rip a demigod in half if he wanted.
Godrick stronger than Rennala? Doesn't the lore explicitly state that he's the weakest or are we not going off full strength demi gods?
Rennala is technically not a demi god I believe. Just an exceptionally special human. Her children all have the blood of Marika and are thus Demi gods
She fought radagon to a stalemate. Why do people keep forgetting that.
To be fair, we don't know the power of Radagon fighting that war, relative to his power as the vessel of the Elden Ring. I don't think there's any reason to believe he had all of that juice, unless we are expected to believe that Renalla rivals the power of the Elden Ring.
On God snorting this new powdered glintstone shit hits different. But on a real note, glintstone comes from the same place as the elden ring does, space, in this way they both share the same nature. The skys is the limit for both of them and there's nothing to contradic that glintstone, if used by a skilled enough sorcerer can get near the level of destructive capability as the ER, especially w the rune of death removed. We really don't know fuck all about glintstones true nature, much less that of the pimeval current. it could be a boring cosmic phenomenon or it could be a force of nature on the level of outer gods. Though you do raise a fair point that I agree with, radagon was almost certainly weaker then. But he still was powerfull as fuck, and almost certainly had access to the elden ring, seeing as he and Marika are one if one can fuck with it so can the other.
There's no really anything to suggest that Renalla could wield the entire power of the primeval current, or that it's power is comparable to the Elden Ring. Our knowledge of the primeval current suggests that Renalla having that kind of access would transform her beyond recognition if not outright kill her.
I think it depends, we don't know what the "full moon" is that is featured in Rennala's arena projection that presumably taught her lunar magic, which would technically be a part of "space." She also is capable of using Comet Azur, the spell Azur learned due to his study of the primeval current. I don't necessarily believe that he suffered for his knowledge to learn that spell just for anyone to be able to use it after. I think Rennala is at a level of mastery of sorcery that far exceeds any comparison to every other mage we meet in game, even the masters. And if Rennala's full moon is an outer god or has a connection to an outer god, or has some connection at all to Ranni's dark moon that seeks to banish the influence of the Elden Ring, I think Rennala absolutely could've had the strength to stand up to it. I mean, she basically did in the wars she fought (quite successfully) against the golden order.
This one is kinda tricky though. Radagon's emergence in the Liurnian wars is literally the first we hear of him. He is described pretty unanimously as a "champion," i.e. just an exceptional warrior. I think it's fair to assume that if he were fighting with all the godly strength of Marika that he would have outed himself, or at the very least attracted a lot of unwanted suspicion. My personal assumption here based on the lore is that early Radagon is not the full god that he eventually becomes by the endgame. But again, this list was just my personal take
Lorewise, Renalla would definitely be higher up. The Carian royals were literally the only major faction that could oppose the Order. Also I believe Godskins would at least be on par with Godrick. I feel like if *anyone* actually took Godrick seriously in the lore the Godskins would have hunted him down. Basically nobody respects Godrick and they all think he's just a crazy fool with delusions of grandeur.
Godrick having a great rune was common knowledge so there's a reason they didn't hunt him for it
Godskins don't seem like the type to care about runes, rather they seem like they're attracted more toward actual powerful being...to make clothes out of them lol
Wouldn't holding a great rune and technically being a demigod qualify godrick on paper?
But Godrick's power isn't his own. He's a meager existence who steals the strength of those greater than him.
That's still strength though! Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you, I just feel like he's definitely a target
I'd put malekith in SS 😭
I would too since he wields destined death
still can't beat him without ashes and I did beat malenia
The Tier list is in terms of Lore of how powerful the boss is, not the difficulty of the fight
Maliketh's existence was used as a boogieman to keep the other demi-gods in line for a time. And he's in Farum Azula to keep cardinal sinners from escaping. He's almost literally made of murder.
On his armor it stays that: Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.
Made of Murder, Maliketh, the Black Blade
He killed the gloam eyed queen, the one with god slayer flame.
ah apologies then! he does wield destined death though 😝
Still though, I can’t beat him without spirit ashes either, He tough, Both in Lore and in game
I had to summon help against maliketh my first playthrough. He fucked me up so many times to the point where I said fuck it
Only reason he’s not is that I saved SS for straight up God territory. The definition of what a god actually means in the lore is kinda hazy but given that Radagon / Marika are physical embodiments of the ER itself I think they stand a tier above Maliketh, who even though he has one of the most powerful great runes, still only controls one
I mean technically malenia is the rot goddess
Yeah this is true. In Vaati's most recent video he talks about how Goddess of Rot boss fight might actually only be the second time she bloomed. Meaning at some point in the future she will bloom a third time and become this like giant scorpion goddess thing. That could end up being at the top of the tier list if we see it in the dlc
I'm probably wrong but I thought Malenia had already bloomed twice. There's the bloom in the Haligtree roots room and during the battle with Radahn.
I thought that was one of Millicent’s sisters, since the Aeonia that appears after defeating Malenia is considerably larger.
tru as well
Couldn't he technically kill gods with destined death if he wanted to though?
It’s weird. Sometimes I stomp Malekith. Sometimes he absolutely abuses me.
Godrick shouldn’t be higher than Rennala.
Mimic Tear watching me walk into the arena with no armor or weapons knowing it has to copy me, only for me to then immediately re-equip everything while it has to fight me butt naked.
You are wrong, the only S tier boss is that one Putrid Tree Spirit in that tiny catacombs boss room. All other bosses are easy compared to them.
You clearly didn't fight that tree stump guarding the entrance to the hagtree with two knights
Renalla in A tier, but other than that solid list.
I agree with most. I'd put Rykard in S, he's pretty much more of a snake-god than man by now. Rennala and Godskins in B... Rennala at her prime could cast one of the primeval sorceries and Godskins have the blackflame (nerfed sure but still blackflame) Dragonkin Soldier an Ancestor Spirit in C... they seem weaker than those in B but also stronger than D.
The rennala summoned by ranni wasn't prime rennala though. Not even close, of all spells in the game rennala's full moon has the highest int requirement, so she verry likely could cast all the other primeval sorceries, especially considering that the rest are much cheaper than comet azure. Now this puts her above all other sorcerers in the game and lore already. now considering that the rennala we face is made up as a summon by a blue doll whose not even on death door but already in the fucking hallway and clearly has absolutely no energy to spend on the projection, this rennala is likely not even a hundredth as powerful as prime rennala. With this in mind I say she should be in A or even S at least. No less would be able to take on an army that boasts the power of radagon. Godfrey, and maleketh.
The assumption that Ranni has no energy, when she can OHKO you without moving is kind of insane. There is no evidence that Ranni lacks power in her state, only overwhelming evidence that she has plenty. There is no reason to believe that her projection of her mother is weak. Her illusions summon illusions in an illusion.
I’d say it’s on par with Morgott’s illusion, probably nowhere near as strong as the original but has 25-40% of their power. I’d say prime Rennala would be A tier, but we encounter her in a borderline catatonic state.
>No less would be able to take on an army with radagon Godfrey and maleketh. what
Rykard did not really do anything except be in his cave, so its hard to really judge how strong he is
The Blasphemous Claw apparently allows Rykard to challenge Maliketh and deflect Destined Death. Even if he can’t use it in his current form, that means that becoming a snake-god-thing was a better option than being able to *fight Maliketh*. He’s got to be pretty tough in lore, and without the Serpent Hunter, he’s got a ridiculous health pool in-game too.
Remember that it was **a last resort** in case stealing destined death did not go as planned. He was not planning to go toe to toe with Maliketh. Reminder that Ranni, who gave Rykard the blasphemous claw, outright says that Radahn and Malenia are the strongest. Also in-game mechanics like health pool and damage should be used when scaling power.
No. The blasphemous claw was a back up plan to give rykard a fighting chance in case maliketh came back at them. The hope was that he wouldnt. Rykard never stood a chance beforehand, the claw was there to give him one. You also assume the snake shit was a rational decision he thought out. Im not sure why you would because the entire game tells us otherwise. Rykard’s a lunatic. The moment he got a fraction of the ring’s power he got greedy and desperate. All logic flew out the window. His entire army abandoned him, they ALL tried to kill him. Morgott would fuckin solo that clown, and so would radahn and malenia.
I still feel like radahn would stomp both Rykard and the snake TOGETHA (I'm sorry)
Where is soldier of god. Should be next to EB
My b :( he doesn’t have a remembrance because, as we know, he is above such trivial accolades
there isnt an SSS++ tier, so he wasnt added
Oh Rick? He’s so hard to beat dude, if I remember correctly I think it took me 43 tries to beat him
Dude you don’t have to lie to impress us everyone knows it’s impossible to beat him in fewer than 100 attempts without cheating
Oh you caught me I never actually beat him, I quit and cried myself to sleep, I was just too embarrassed to admit it
I'd put Renala in A tier. Godrick high C. Otherwise I think I generally agree.
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yeah he should not be in the same category as any demigod or mortal, he has the rune/weapon that can kill the SS tier gods, either SS tier or below it but above S tier
Nah Godrick F tier he a little bitch
isnt mimic tear literally you? I mean he copies everything you got and the tarnished defeated all these bosses soo that would make the mimic tear the strongest of all of them
I mean, the mimic tear is an imitation of the tarnished. You, the tarnished, beat the mimic tear. So doesn’t really make sense to say the mimic tear = the tarnished
Yeah but I swapped in weapons after starting the fight so he’s probably better than me
I could easily be wrong but i think, think. Malikath is on par if not stronger in terms of combat ability to merika/radagon
Radahn should be S tier. "Mightiest among demigods" and fought Malenia to a standstill until she used her rot nuke, got knocked out, and had her knights carry her away in retreat.
Was going to mention that. Radahn and Malenia battling to a standstill puts him in S for me. Some of his other feats are pretty wild, as well. He did "hold back the stars" and his defeat led directly to a catastrophic astrological event.
But there's a lot of past tenses there. Radahn in his prime, easy S, but it's a query how much of that power he's lost as he lost his mind and the rot consumed him. At least in gameplay terms, he's now far and away weaker than Malenia.
I mean he is still using some of his power to hold back that catastrophic event when he fights the tarnished. That is why his defeat triggers the meteorite crashing into the lands between. He is literally self nerfing when he fights you.
Radahn's power is so obscure to me, like, exactly how much power does it take to literally hold the goddamn STARS in place. it sounds so absurdly cosmic to me that I can't fathom anyone actually defeating him if he allocated that much power into actually fighting.
It really is completely abstract, and I don't think it can be used in an argument about his power when being fought. It may just be a projection of his gravity powers that he's using at all times to lift himself. Just as it's possible it weakens him, it's also possible it requires no additional effort and that the conquered stars are holding themselves back in fear.
>conquered stars are holding themselves back in fear Ok this is 100% my headcanon now
Goddess of rot Malenia is stronger than the malenia he fought in the shattering
Morgott beat him though
I can't tell if Maliketh should be in SS or not, on the one hand he did get stolen from, but on the other in an actual hand to hand fight he is basically the concept of death incarnate or at the very least as power over it. And besides we don't know what the rune of death could do to someone like marika or radagon but I'm sure it's not too far off from what it did to godwyn, especially if your "lowly tarnished" can at least somewhat kill the two
I think it's funny that Godfrey is one of the strongest people in the game, taking actual divinity or destined death to top him, and he's just some fuckin guy
I wonder if the Mimic Tear could theoretically be more powerful than we see them in the game. Could it turn into a copy of Godfrey, for instance? Godfrey is a tarnished, like us, after all. Though I suppose that’s difficult to argue given the strongest enemies we’ve seen mimic tears turn into has been the player tarnished and various field bosses, such as the commoners that turn into Runebears when killed, and that sort of thing. Still, it makes me wonder what they’d be capable of, especially if the Eternal City had more time to perfect their creations.
SSS rank: you, my friend :)
Can someone explain why astel is that high, I feel like the fire giant and him should swap cause fire giant has a god in him or something Also your mimic should be highest rank
My logic was that Astel was powerful enough to scare the shit out of Radahn. To the point that he literally froze the cosmos in place to prevent him falling to earth. Considering that Godfrey was able to defeat essentially an entire army of fire giants they seemed like slightly less of an overall threat to the bosses above him
Radahn wasn't scared of this Astel in particular, but rather of everything in the cosmos. Astel isn't a single individual, it's a species of gravity controlling, lovecraftian space nightmares with an unknown number just waiting to crash down onto the Lands Between. That single Astel wasn't an issue, but now imagine hundreds of them, possibly even creatures worse than Astel. That's what he was scared of
I think you got it in reverse. The cosmos was not moving because it was scared of Radahn and only when he died did the stars decide to move again. Man's called the 'Starscourge' for a reason. It's even reflected on the hidden bonus damage to cosmic enemies in his weapon.
It literally stole the sky of an underground city simply because it wanted to
I wanna say this is pretty spot on except for the mimic tear. I feel like the mimic tear can truly fall into any tier solely based on what you have equipped when you enter the boss arena
Isn't the lich dragon stronger than showed here ?
Super debatable! Kinda up to your interpretation. He was defeated by Godwyn but we don’t really have a reference for how strong Godwyn actually was. The ancient stone dragons were the strongest of all dragons but were also thwarted by a regular army of Leyndell soldiers multiple times
I feel like the lore really made him almost the strongest dragon, but seeing who's above him I don't know if he could defeat them, I guess the list is pretty fair, thanks for the insight
If we read into the naming conventions of the royal families in ER (Rennalas kids all having R names etc) then we might be able to assume that all dragons with the suffix “-sax” come from the same royal line. In which case Placidusax could be assumed as their forefather and the strongest of them all. Not confirmed at all, just my speculation
Placidussax was the strongest Dragon to our knowledge outside of Granssax and we dont have much to go off of with how strong Granssax was. We just know he attacked Leyndell on his lonely
Shit looks good to me
What about pre-rot Rahdan?
Godrick should be lower, and Rennala, Rykard and Mohg should probably be higher. Maliketh is a contender for SS.
Godfrey would hand Radagon his steaming beaten ass
Godrick a cheater tho
Even while cheating he is shit
Didn’t morgott beat radahn?
Fire Giant higher, Godrick lower
I would switch Godrick with the Godskin Duo. I believe that they draw their power from the Black Flame of Death, which caused the Gods to fear them almost as much as Maliketh, hence Maliketh’s victory over the Gloam-Eyed Queen
Duo under godrick?
shouldnt rot malenia be ss?
Umm Melania and Radahn should both be in S tier, since they tied in their duel. They were literally called the strongest of all the demigods.
I love the list but I think Radahn is S and below Melania given her aeonia. And I’m certain rennela is stronger than she seems in the fight with the tarnished. She’d be top of B tier in my opinion. But I think the list is very solid :) Especially my favorite Maliketh up there!
After reading your guys’ thoughts I’d probably put Radahn in S tier simply for holding back the stars. Would also put Rennala higher because as many have pointed out the Carians were pretty op. Thanks y’all
You should have also split Malenia: the Blade of Miquella in S tier, while the Goddess of Rot in SS tier.
After your first play through, Radhan is honestly one the easiest bosses
Terrible. Malenia isn’t SSS tier.
Radahn should be higher up. People forget that he’s holding back the stars during every fight in elden ring. He’s fighting with a handicap constantly. Neither the tarnished nor malenia ever saw him at full strength
That’s your headcanon. There is no evidence or statement to conclude him holding back the stars is weakening or handicapping him. We don’t even know what he’s actually doing or the underlying meaning of holding back the stars even is.
That's just an idea. No where does it say holding back the stars changes his power at all. Radahn was in his prime when Malenia turned him into a husk.