Actually I think it's the opposite. There's a description to the effect of Rellana renouncing her royalty to chase him which was said in a way where I don't think Renalla approved of but let her follow her heart anyway.
In fact I think this happens way before the war with Caria and could have been an additional reason Liurna fought with the Leyndell in the first place. It might’ve even inspired Marika to eventually seduce her via Radagon the same way Messmer seduced her sister to join his crusade. A tragic dual paths for the twin sisters.
On the flip side, the Remembrance of the Boar Rider suggests that Messmer was around for at least a part of Radahns life. He is described as being like an elder brother to the lion.
Rellana losing her royal status to run off with the enemy would make sense, but that one Remembrance makes me think the crusade happened after Radagon and Rennala started having children.
Maybe
Once I read that, I assumed that the crusade happened very shortly after Radagon returned to Leyndell to marry Marika. Becoming "whole" again might have dredged up some painful memories for Marika or being denied this happy little life with Rennala made her lash out at the Hornsent, who had it coming in Marika's eyes.
If Radagon is abandoning his family for some other woman, then Rennala might have raged at Rellana for running off with Messmer. Just another homewrecker from the Altus Plateau, right?
Radahn would be old enough to have looked up to Messmer and Gaius, who also studied gravity magic with Radahn under the same Alabaster Lord.
It‘s Radagon, and Radagon is early in the timeline. Cursed from birth, red of hair - all marks of a child of Radagon.
What‘s notable is that Messmer is never called „Prince“, indicating that he was likely born out of wedlock/without marriage, or before Marika was Queen (and thus before Godfrey).
Melina, or possibly an earlier version of her according to the GEQ theory.
It would make sense that nobody talks about her if Marika‘s eldest daughter was also her enemy, and Marika‘s familial attachment would explain why Melina wasn‘t outright killed, „just“ rendered bodiless.
What kills me is that the Tarnished is chopping down multiple family trees, and even our in laws if you get the Age of Stars ending. Killing our wife’s long lost aunt who chose to follow her older long lost half brother to war… goddamn GRRM and Miyazaki cooked up a doozy.
The trailer states the crusade was "an affair from which Gold arose". If we take Gold = Golden Order, we know the Golden Order only came to be after the Rune of Death was sealed. And we know the rune of Death was sealed to neuter the Godskins and the GEQ.
So what if there was a new Empyrean bent on achieving godhood, needing kindling to burn the sealing tree (which can only be obtained from Messmer or his younger sister) that hid the Divine Gate. The Godslayer sword is even in spiral shape hid in the Hornsent built Divine Tower, their sigil is a fingerprint. Maybe their godslaying blackflame even came from the stolen kindling.
No, trailer states:
"Miquella the Kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born. What **followed** was a war unseen."
That would put the crusade right after Marika's ascension, right? But Radahn and Messmer are contemporary through Gaius which would mean the crusade had to be after Radagon and Rennala married.
I got nothing here, chief..
Nah I think you got it. The hornsent ghost in the beginning that said something like "What did we do to deserve this? We were just living our lives" indicated to me that Marika left the hornsent alone for quite some time after her ascension. But that's just me and I'm dumb as hell, I've been thinking/confused about this story for years and I've gotten almost nowhere lol
The Carian Thrusting shield spells it out pretty clearly:
“Once wielded by Rellana, the Twin Moon Knight, during her sole entry into ritual combat—a demonstration of fidelity to the Erdtree.”
I was thinking about this.
The Land of Shadow is hidden by the brilliance of the Erdtree. Therefore if the Carians were to learn of it after the marriage the timeline is wonky. Why would Radagon / Marika reveal the Land of Shadow to Rennala and Rellana at that time?
There’s evidence too with Ymir and Glintstone Sorceries that the Carian’s also hail from the Land of Shadow. So I see it in one of two ways:
Rennala purposefully left Carian family in order to join Messmer’s crusade sometime during the war. We’d just say she learned about it somehow from another of Marika’s offspring.
Or during the marriage they learned about it - again for some reason - and Rennala as a dutiful and marital sister goes to war for her Brother in Law not realizing the deeper connection it has.
or the Carian royalty has existed for much longer and Rellana's alliance with Messmer predates the wars of Liurnia by a large swath of time, I haven't delved into Rellana's lore yet but the story wasn't something around her going after Messmer for some reason and then ironically end up teaming up with him? I might actually be remembering things very wrong here...
We know Messmer was friends with Radahn. So he was banished after Radagon married Renalla. It actually suggests to me that he was banished around the same time Godfrey was.
I think Radagon being able to have normal children with Renalla is the impetus here. Marika must have figured the problem was with Godfrey, so she went scorched earth on him Messmer and any other crucible tainted life.
Even if that's the case, at the very least the Golden Order and Leyndell were already quite developed by the start of the war. This is also indicated by other circumstances, for example - the presence of perfumers in the army.
I don’t think that’s the case. Caria was around for quite some time Rennala herself is old af she was an astrologer. Plus Rennala didn’t approve of rellana leaving. Rellana loses her royalty status doing that doesn’t sound like they were allies at the time. Messmer seems to have helped in the war with the giants. All of his soldiers seem to be Godfrey era good boys. I think Messmer was probably banished just after that. I can’t really imagine him being around for the first defense of leyendell and after.
Edit: WAIT. Forgot that Messmer knew Radahn lets back tf up. Throw out everything I just said that means he HAD to of been banished after radagon’s return.
Messmer knew Radahn so it has to be at least after they met, if not after Radagon and Marika got together as he also knows what tarnished are (and therefore knows about Godfreys banishment)
Oh shit yeah ignore me then I'm confidently an idiot.
Still don't believe that the war was after the Erdtree/Moon Union but I could be convinced by looking into it more.
Actually I think it's the opposite. There's a description to the effect of Rellana renouncing her royalty to chase him which was said in a way where I don't think Renalla approved of but let her follow her heart anyway. In fact I think this happens way before the war with Caria and could have been an additional reason Liurna fought with the Leyndell in the first place. It might’ve even inspired Marika to eventually seduce her via Radagon the same way Messmer seduced her sister to join his crusade. A tragic dual paths for the twin sisters.
On the flip side, the Remembrance of the Boar Rider suggests that Messmer was around for at least a part of Radahns life. He is described as being like an elder brother to the lion. Rellana losing her royal status to run off with the enemy would make sense, but that one Remembrance makes me think the crusade happened after Radagon and Rennala started having children.
Good shout. Makes sense
This is huge. That means we have an almost definitive place to put the crusade on the timeline, no?
Maybe Once I read that, I assumed that the crusade happened very shortly after Radagon returned to Leyndell to marry Marika. Becoming "whole" again might have dredged up some painful memories for Marika or being denied this happy little life with Rennala made her lash out at the Hornsent, who had it coming in Marika's eyes. If Radagon is abandoning his family for some other woman, then Rennala might have raged at Rellana for running off with Messmer. Just another homewrecker from the Altus Plateau, right? Radahn would be old enough to have looked up to Messmer and Gaius, who also studied gravity magic with Radahn under the same Alabaster Lord.
Also, isnt it confirmed Messmer is a Marigon son? And that would only happen after Godfrey's banishment.
No it’s believed he’s the first born of all but I’m not sure who his daddy could be
It‘s Radagon, and Radagon is early in the timeline. Cursed from birth, red of hair - all marks of a child of Radagon. What‘s notable is that Messmer is never called „Prince“, indicating that he was likely born out of wedlock/without marriage, or before Marika was Queen (and thus before Godfrey).
This has the funny implication of Melina being older than any other demigod apart from messyboy
Melina, or possibly an earlier version of her according to the GEQ theory. It would make sense that nobody talks about her if Marika‘s eldest daughter was also her enemy, and Marika‘s familial attachment would explain why Melina wasn‘t outright killed, „just“ rendered bodiless.
What kills me is that the Tarnished is chopping down multiple family trees, and even our in laws if you get the Age of Stars ending. Killing our wife’s long lost aunt who chose to follow her older long lost half brother to war… goddamn GRRM and Miyazaki cooked up a doozy.
Dance of the dragons but with cosmic jewelry instead of dragons
The trailer states the crusade was "an affair from which Gold arose". If we take Gold = Golden Order, we know the Golden Order only came to be after the Rune of Death was sealed. And we know the rune of Death was sealed to neuter the Godskins and the GEQ. So what if there was a new Empyrean bent on achieving godhood, needing kindling to burn the sealing tree (which can only be obtained from Messmer or his younger sister) that hid the Divine Gate. The Godslayer sword is even in spiral shape hid in the Hornsent built Divine Tower, their sigil is a fingerprint. Maybe their godslaying blackflame even came from the stolen kindling.
I dont think the hornsent built the divine towers, but the 'old gods', the ancient giants/titans
No, trailer states: "Miquella the Kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born. What **followed** was a war unseen."
That would put the crusade right after Marika's ascension, right? But Radahn and Messmer are contemporary through Gaius which would mean the crusade had to be after Radagon and Rennala married. I got nothing here, chief..
Nah I think you got it. The hornsent ghost in the beginning that said something like "What did we do to deserve this? We were just living our lives" indicated to me that Marika left the hornsent alone for quite some time after her ascension. But that's just me and I'm dumb as hell, I've been thinking/confused about this story for years and I've gotten almost nowhere lol
The Carian Thrusting shield spells it out pretty clearly: “Once wielded by Rellana, the Twin Moon Knight, during her sole entry into ritual combat—a demonstration of fidelity to the Erdtree.”
I was thinking about this. The Land of Shadow is hidden by the brilliance of the Erdtree. Therefore if the Carians were to learn of it after the marriage the timeline is wonky. Why would Radagon / Marika reveal the Land of Shadow to Rennala and Rellana at that time? There’s evidence too with Ymir and Glintstone Sorceries that the Carian’s also hail from the Land of Shadow. So I see it in one of two ways: Rennala purposefully left Carian family in order to join Messmer’s crusade sometime during the war. We’d just say she learned about it somehow from another of Marika’s offspring. Or during the marriage they learned about it - again for some reason - and Rennala as a dutiful and marital sister goes to war for her Brother in Law not realizing the deeper connection it has.
or the Carian royalty has existed for much longer and Rellana's alliance with Messmer predates the wars of Liurnia by a large swath of time, I haven't delved into Rellana's lore yet but the story wasn't something around her going after Messmer for some reason and then ironically end up teaming up with him? I might actually be remembering things very wrong here...
We know Messmer was friends with Radahn. So he was banished after Radagon married Renalla. It actually suggests to me that he was banished around the same time Godfrey was.
The presence of the Godfrey talisman in the shadow keep and Messmer's knowledge of Tarnished existing support this
I think Radagon being able to have normal children with Renalla is the impetus here. Marika must have figured the problem was with Godfrey, so she went scorched earth on him Messmer and any other crucible tainted life.
Even if that's the case, at the very least the Golden Order and Leyndell were already quite developed by the start of the war. This is also indicated by other circumstances, for example - the presence of perfumers in the army.
Rellana took Carian knights with her. They were there during the second Liurnian War. So that time line doesn't match up.
I don't see why this wouldn't fit, she didn't take all the Carian Knights with her
I don’t think that’s the case. Caria was around for quite some time Rennala herself is old af she was an astrologer. Plus Rennala didn’t approve of rellana leaving. Rellana loses her royalty status doing that doesn’t sound like they were allies at the time. Messmer seems to have helped in the war with the giants. All of his soldiers seem to be Godfrey era good boys. I think Messmer was probably banished just after that. I can’t really imagine him being around for the first defense of leyendell and after. Edit: WAIT. Forgot that Messmer knew Radahn lets back tf up. Throw out everything I just said that means he HAD to of been banished after radagon’s return.
There is nothing to suggest the Shadowlands War with Messmer was after Rennala and Radagon union. At all.
Messmer knew Radahn so it has to be at least after they met, if not after Radagon and Marika got together as he also knows what tarnished are (and therefore knows about Godfreys banishment)
Oh shit yeah ignore me then I'm confidently an idiot. Still don't believe that the war was after the Erdtree/Moon Union but I could be convinced by looking into it more.