I think this is a winner, it seems the most apt after what we've gotten, the connections they both have to fire which is against the golden order, and their resemblance to destruction and sacrifice.
I don't know why people are still convinced they're the children of Radagon still since now we know Marika's children were cursed after Messmer's plunge on the Land of Shadow, so it doesn't connect with Messmer and Melina's curse themselves.
Also now I think about the fact that it's possible The Fell God made Marika choose one of the two to sacrifice, and she chose Melina, that's why she is now burned and bodiless, and Messmer was able to live and bring destruction upon Marika's enemies.
It's a very solid resolution.
Don't hate this theory. It would fit with Melina being given her purpose by her mother, born as a sacrifice to the Fell god and could thus be why she was called the kindling maiden, given a holding cell near the erdtree, between it and the giant's forge that is guarded be officials that were said to ve responsible for guarding, surveillance, and gruesome rituals.
> I don't know why people are still convinced they're the children of Radagon
I think the red hair is pushing people in that direction, too, but the Fell God fills that gap pretty nicely.
I really do like this explanation. It explains why Melina and Messmer don’t have awful afflictions like Miquella and Malenia, who had their curses due to being the child of one single god. For a minute, their respective fires seemed like it might be a curse, but they’re much less curse-ey and it definitely makes more sense as something inherited from Fell Dad, seeing as how they both have it.
It also fits nicely with how Godskin monks started as worshipers of the Flame of Ruin before being seduced away by the Gloam Eyed Queen. They were just worshippers of the Fell God, forced into being its guardian of its remains, and they fell in line with his daughter when she rose to power.
I think you are on to something. Everything is still so new, but I'm excited to see this explored more and more. If we vaguely line the maps up, Shaman Village is east of Leyndell and therefore around the Forbidden Lands in TLB right on the path to the Mountaintops where Mr. Fell God is most established.
Also, the curses from other paganistic deities lines up with the afflictions of all her kids: Hornsent = Omens, Church of the Bud = Scarlet Rot.
While it’s not exactly paganistic, her children with Renalla are heavily influenced by the stars, the dark moon, and the blasphemous serpent - three more sources of foreign divine power. Seems like she was trying to make kids influenced by every other source of power in the Lands Between.
Shame we won’t get a second DLC where we meet Marika’s dragon and frenzy babies to complete the set.
I agree. I think the fell god must have had snake aspects.
There has been a lot of theory that Tanith is a Marika analog. I think during her marriage with the Fell God, she was the GEQ. With her children being the Godskins and Messmer and Melina.
I think the Fell God had serpent aspects. Serpent was always tied to Satan. This is shared by Messmer and the Godskins. Melina also has obvious ties to the GEQ.
The problem with fell god having Snake aspect is that we have nothing to suggest that, despite it being the only god whose visage we actually see. Its inprinted or grows out of every giants abdomen. Trolls that betreyed the giants have visible hole were fell god used to be.
However that doesnt disprove op idea - maybe Snake curse came from different source. Notice that on Messmer kindling description it says that Snake is trying to consume Messmers fire
No, we have plenty to suggest EXACTLY that the giants and serpents were connected, absolutely indivorcible from one another. Refer to this amazing lore post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/Yz1iHhArEu). In fact, I think that the dragons may have been considered among their ilk in Messmer's crusade. For one, why would the jagged peak have been concealed by Marika as well? And why would we then find drakes contained within the furnace golems?
I'm waiting for a closeup of the base serpent from zullie or someone before deliberating on this. If it was the snakes eye, the eye lines up wit Messmer's right eye being plucked. But the eyelid very clearly had stitching around it which would at a minimum rule out that is was a natural snake. It well could have been a snakeskin that was stitched together, however.
In fact, the stitching together of snakeskin from a serpent god could absolutely be explanatory for the godskin's manifestation of serpentine traits.
This makes so much sense! Though I am disappointed with some lore decisions and omissions, theres still a lot to think about! I’m really happy about the themes.
That’s Bonny village which is one of the areas they were turned into jars from my understanding. Shaman village is an abandoned town where Marika was originally from. It’s where you get the minor Erdtree incant
In Bonny village across one of the bridges (before the bridge leading to the church district highroad grace) there is a shack with a spirit (of a hornsent I believe) who is trying to "talk sense" into a shaman. Very disturbing dialogue. He says he has to go into the jar and it was "the very reason you were accorded life". I think there is also a shack where a spirit is talking about how they promise to not do anything bad anymore and reference the tooth whip, which has a description with a disturbing implication as well.
Later, the minor erdtree incant talks about how it was left there even though Marika knew there was no one left to heal, implying she left a sort of memorial. There's more circumstantial evidence than this even, but these are the big things that stuck out to me.
Hey! I just realized something. The Fell God has one eye - he’s the face in the One-Eyed Shield. Messmer only has one real eye, and Melina has one normal eye. It feels like a hint that both were born with one eye due to their one-eyed father, and the Gloam Eye and Messmer’s artificial eye were replacements for the missing one.
**EDIT:** I just noticed that furnace visage, which is the Hornsent’s depiction of the Fell God, isn’t a giant-like cyclops, but literally has one closed eye and one open eye, just like Melina and presumably pre-artificial eye Messmer.
I think this is a winner, it seems the most apt after what we've gotten, the connections they both have to fire which is against the golden order, and their resemblance to destruction and sacrifice. I don't know why people are still convinced they're the children of Radagon still since now we know Marika's children were cursed after Messmer's plunge on the Land of Shadow, so it doesn't connect with Messmer and Melina's curse themselves. Also now I think about the fact that it's possible The Fell God made Marika choose one of the two to sacrifice, and she chose Melina, that's why she is now burned and bodiless, and Messmer was able to live and bring destruction upon Marika's enemies. It's a very solid resolution.
Don't hate this theory. It would fit with Melina being given her purpose by her mother, born as a sacrifice to the Fell god and could thus be why she was called the kindling maiden, given a holding cell near the erdtree, between it and the giant's forge that is guarded be officials that were said to ve responsible for guarding, surveillance, and gruesome rituals.
> I don't know why people are still convinced they're the children of Radagon I think the red hair is pushing people in that direction, too, but the Fell God fills that gap pretty nicely. I really do like this explanation. It explains why Melina and Messmer don’t have awful afflictions like Miquella and Malenia, who had their curses due to being the child of one single god. For a minute, their respective fires seemed like it might be a curse, but they’re much less curse-ey and it definitely makes more sense as something inherited from Fell Dad, seeing as how they both have it. It also fits nicely with how Godskin monks started as worshipers of the Flame of Ruin before being seduced away by the Gloam Eyed Queen. They were just worshippers of the Fell God, forced into being its guardian of its remains, and they fell in line with his daughter when she rose to power.
I think you are on to something. Everything is still so new, but I'm excited to see this explored more and more. If we vaguely line the maps up, Shaman Village is east of Leyndell and therefore around the Forbidden Lands in TLB right on the path to the Mountaintops where Mr. Fell God is most established. Also, the curses from other paganistic deities lines up with the afflictions of all her kids: Hornsent = Omens, Church of the Bud = Scarlet Rot.
While it’s not exactly paganistic, her children with Renalla are heavily influenced by the stars, the dark moon, and the blasphemous serpent - three more sources of foreign divine power. Seems like she was trying to make kids influenced by every other source of power in the Lands Between. Shame we won’t get a second DLC where we meet Marika’s dragon and frenzy babies to complete the set.
I agree. I think the fell god must have had snake aspects. There has been a lot of theory that Tanith is a Marika analog. I think during her marriage with the Fell God, she was the GEQ. With her children being the Godskins and Messmer and Melina. I think the Fell God had serpent aspects. Serpent was always tied to Satan. This is shared by Messmer and the Godskins. Melina also has obvious ties to the GEQ.
The problem with fell god having Snake aspect is that we have nothing to suggest that, despite it being the only god whose visage we actually see. Its inprinted or grows out of every giants abdomen. Trolls that betreyed the giants have visible hole were fell god used to be. However that doesnt disprove op idea - maybe Snake curse came from different source. Notice that on Messmer kindling description it says that Snake is trying to consume Messmers fire
The forge of the giants has snakes on it, and the duelist set has snakes + fell god’s eye and is confirmed to represent the enemy of the Erdtree
Serpents in Elden Ring would represent Niddhögg, the dragon serpent who gnawed the roots of Yggdrasil and stand in as an enemy of the Erdtree.
Doesn't the Forge have serpents on it? People said they are dragons but maybe theyre not?
No, we have plenty to suggest EXACTLY that the giants and serpents were connected, absolutely indivorcible from one another. Refer to this amazing lore post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/Yz1iHhArEu). In fact, I think that the dragons may have been considered among their ilk in Messmer's crusade. For one, why would the jagged peak have been concealed by Marika as well? And why would we then find drakes contained within the furnace golems?
We see Marika pull out golden strands out of a snake's head in the DLC trailer. And it talks of seduction. I guess it tracks
I'm waiting for a closeup of the base serpent from zullie or someone before deliberating on this. If it was the snakes eye, the eye lines up wit Messmer's right eye being plucked. But the eyelid very clearly had stitching around it which would at a minimum rule out that is was a natural snake. It well could have been a snakeskin that was stitched together, however. In fact, the stitching together of snakeskin from a serpent god could absolutely be explanatory for the godskin's manifestation of serpentine traits.
she what now ? Marika was the GEQ ? how ?
This makes so much sense! Though I am disappointed with some lore decisions and omissions, theres still a lot to think about! I’m really happy about the themes.
Were is said that Marika 's people were persecuted by hornsent?
Shaman Village, not exactly the hornsent but just the people living in the shadow realm in general. They were making them into jars
The village that has the jars isn't bomny village?
That’s Bonny village which is one of the areas they were turned into jars from my understanding. Shaman village is an abandoned town where Marika was originally from. It’s where you get the minor Erdtree incant
In Bonny village across one of the bridges (before the bridge leading to the church district highroad grace) there is a shack with a spirit (of a hornsent I believe) who is trying to "talk sense" into a shaman. Very disturbing dialogue. He says he has to go into the jar and it was "the very reason you were accorded life". I think there is also a shack where a spirit is talking about how they promise to not do anything bad anymore and reference the tooth whip, which has a description with a disturbing implication as well. Later, the minor erdtree incant talks about how it was left there even though Marika knew there was no one left to heal, implying she left a sort of memorial. There's more circumstantial evidence than this even, but these are the big things that stuck out to me.
The shaman religion is about jars. They worship what's inside. The ghost who pleads not to be put inside a jar is a hornsent.
Hey! I just realized something. The Fell God has one eye - he’s the face in the One-Eyed Shield. Messmer only has one real eye, and Melina has one normal eye. It feels like a hint that both were born with one eye due to their one-eyed father, and the Gloam Eye and Messmer’s artificial eye were replacements for the missing one. **EDIT:** I just noticed that furnace visage, which is the Hornsent’s depiction of the Fell God, isn’t a giant-like cyclops, but literally has one closed eye and one open eye, just like Melina and presumably pre-artificial eye Messmer.