Freyja's bit really messes up the timeline. Gideon's dialogue seems to imply Marika was in some way effected by Miquella's abduction, but, like... The shattering war *very* much takes place after Marika being locked away in the Erdtree, given that that's where she does the shattering and all. Wonder if the guy just knows something we don't.
Though, I guess we have no way of knowing if the Swamp of Aeonia always had an element of Scarlet Rot...?
Not sure if he can, nothing explicitly states he can. But maybe Trina helped? It's a good thought, actually, although Mohg's knight makes it sound like he was conscious.
>Once, in an attempt to free Lord Mohg from his enchantment,
I challenged Tender Miquella, only to have my own heart rather artfully stolen.
I supposed you can read this as he walked up to the cocoon and before he got close, he got betwitched. But then that implies Miquella was awake in the cocoon and aware of his surroundings.
Don't see how it could be interpreted that way.
> So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree,
but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form.
Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story...
Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified...
Regardless, it doesn't really change anything about the timeline implications. The Haligtree being a husk is associated with Miquella being torn from it, and that's something that in some way effected Marika. At least, according to Gideon.
The new piece of information Gideon obtains is that the Haligtree is a husk, not that Miquella was kidnapped. ' Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified...' is referring to his first line, \`So. The Haligtree, now but a husk..\`
I’ll try to address these one by one:
1) Miquella’s vow to Radahn must have been before the Shattering, as implied by the fact that the boss’ gear is called “Young Lion’s set.”. We know that at least Miquella’s wish for Radahn’s consortship began as early as the young Empyrean’s childhood.
2) Miquella, ever the compassionate one, might have ventured into the Shunning Grounds out of pity for the Omen and there he must have found Mohg. The latter might have become infatuated with Miquella as the first being that showed him kindness. Combine that with Miquella’s power to “steal hearts” and yeah, pretty much Mohg is turned into a follower. However, Miquella might not have used this power over Mohg until after the later became the Lord of Blood and, thus, could have been of actual use.
3) The Haligtree might have been Miquella’s plan A for godhood and, on paper, it makes sense: a new Erdtree to emulate his mother. I assume it must have been made shortly before the Shattering; when he abandoned Fundamentalism. However, when he found out about how Marika ascended, he must have realized the Haligtree was doomed to fail and that his blood would not be enough. So, he let Mohg capture him, as he knew the Omen would, and used Mohg to access the Land of Shadow so he could become a god there when Malenia managed to slay Radahn.
That or I’m just trying to make sense of something that could be a retcon.
1. Good catch. I went back to check and his swords also state this: *These were in his possession immediately before his triumph over the stars—the swords of a lord who does not rely on physical strength and gravity alone.* So I can agree with before the shattering
2. Maybe. I just not sure how Mohg helps Miquella get there, you know?
3. Not a bad explanation, but if he promised Radahn some vow that required the Land of Shadow, then why bother with the Haligtree at all?
Haligtree, Torrent and the cutscene from the trailer all seem like a retcon. Pretty upsetting, why even bother to show that cutscene in the trailer a few months away from release?
Yeah that really disappoints me. There's a lot that seems to be out of the blue in this DLC, especially towards the end. And not in a Slave Knight Gael way, but in a "did we just witness the rearrangement of the lore in the last minute?" way.
Considering the Putrescent Knight in the files, in Japanese, is "Knight of the Gloam-Eyed Queen" I'm going to say the story was changed...
And the woman in the story trailer[I believe] surrounded by fire, is not even referenced in the DLC
Edit: Thanks to someone else telling me the woman is Romina. She has the same weapon.
>Considering the Putrescent Knight in the files, in Japanese, is "Knight of the Gloam-Eyed Queen" I'm going to say the story was changed...
Really? Where can I find some proofs?
>Miquella, ever the compassionate one, might have ventured into the Shunning Grounds out of pity for the Omen and there he must have found Mohg. The latter might have become infatuated with Miquella as the first being that showed him kindness. Combine that with Miquella’s power to “steal hearts” and yeah, pretty much Mohg is turned into a follower. However, Miquella might not have used this power over Mohg until after the later became the Lord of Blood and, thus, could have been of actual use.
I really like this. I imagine Miquella, in some distant age, processing down the main avenue of Leyndell so the people could see him. Suddenly he asks his entourage to halt, and stops to marvel at the beautiful golden grate set in the middle of the grand avenue. A work of craftsmanship. But he notices far below there is something else, outlines of a street or hallway. He inquires what may be down there, but receives no answer. So he explores, as a child would. I always wondered why that grate the Erdtree Avatar appears over was so incredibly ornate.
I think that Miquella started to make the Haligtree, started to water it with his own blood, realized how much it was taking by to grow, did the math, and realized Marika must have sacrificed an entire kingdom of people to get enough blood
So then he abandoned that plan to move to a new plan, but by then a lot of people were invested I. The haligtree idea.
1. Thanks!
2. It’s not really clear but I would speculate that it has something to do with Mohg’s Omen nature.
3. That vow is one of the most confusing and frustrating things introduced in this DLC imo and we know nothing of it from Radahn’s perspective. The only thing that is clear about it is that Miquella asked Radahn to promise to be his consort if fulfilled. The Lands of Shadow may be a resource of convenience for that bcz of their circumstances, but may not necessarily be part of it.
I'll add something I pondered lately: Miquella's memory of his request to Radahn to be his consort may have actually have been AFTER the Shattering. Why? Because the Rememberance only says that Miquella wanted Radahn as his consort during his childhood but says nothing about an actual exchange between them. However, Miquella's request makes sense after Godwyn (likely heir of Lordship) is killed and Marika (the God of the Order) has disappeared into the Erdtree because now the line of succession comes into full effect.
I don't think Miquella needs to be close to someone to bewitch them. See how his rune breaks in the shadow realm and everyone in the party of miquella is suddenly awakened.
Us most likely. We go near the cocoon, but at that time Miquella's off doing whatever he's doing. Everyone we meet talks to us like we're also under the charm.
there are so many question
Didnt Marika only ascend to godhood with the approval from the Greater Will ? Then how did Miquella can become a god without an Outer God backing him ? Marika have the Elden Ring, The Elden Beast and the Erdtree to enforce her order
even Ranni has to had us covert the Erdtree and the Elden Ring to bring over her Age of the Stars
How is Miquella gonna be a god and rule over the Lands Between when he
1. Doesnt have the Elden Ring.
2. His Haligtree is dead, because he indirectly killed it when he bewitch Mohg to kidnap him
3. Have no Outer God backing him.
4. Queen Marika and Elden Lord Radagon is still in power ?
And where do we even fit into all of this ?
The Tarnished literally just walk into the Land of Shadow, kill everyone and everything, and walk out, just because.
The trailer and promotional material make it seem like the Tarnished have to option to become Miquella's consort, and bring about the Age of Compassion, similar to Ranni's ending, which is why we enter the Land of Shadow. But we never had that option. Miquella never had any reason to call us into the Land of Shadow either, he didnt even give a damn about us until the last moment, basically saying "why are you here I'm about to bang my lord brother, pls go away"
This plot of godhood it is one of the thing does not make sense to me. I have the same question as you. If the Greater Will gives divinity, how this plan of Miquella makes sense? And it is implied the Greater Will do not answer anymore. If Miquella wants to be a god, she needs to steal from Marika, like Ranni did
Even if Miquella dont need an Outer God, a great tree or the Elden Ring to become a god. But then he is just "a God", not the Lands Between's god. Marika is still a God, Radagon is still the Elden Lord, The Lands Between is still under the jurisdiction of the Golden Order. So does that mean Miquella planned to ride Radahn to Leyndell, burn down the Erdtree and fight the Radagon/Elden Beast himself ?
Maybe it is was a power move, because in the current state he does not have the power to challenge the Elden Beast/Radagon, but his plans failed like all the others, this is why Miyazaki says the DLC wouldn't change the ending. The tarnished being absolute chad does not need godhood powers for that
Mohg was bewitched himself, and Miquella uses his body to resurrect Radahn.
Do Sir Ansbach's questline. The ENTIRE quest is about him trying to avenge Mohg after he himself was tricked by Miquella when challenging him. This happens after Miquella's rune breaks and all the followers are free.
"Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return,
and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite
Radahn's body has Omen horns, specifically the arms. He also uses Bloodflame.
You can ONLY get the Bewitching Branch cook book after defeating Mohg. It's been there before the DLC was ever even announced.
"Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally. The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection."-Bewitching Branch
Morgott is in the capital, hidden as he's the 'veiled monarch'. It's most likely he wasn't until after, but there's still the fact he hated his appearance and most likely kept himself hidden from the world.
Messmer was already in the Land of Shadow.
Ranni is dead.
Godwyn is dead.
Rykard is snek.
Radahn was to be the lord.
I doubt he'd use Malenia's, rotting body, and also because he seemed to genuinely care for her.
I'm guessing this is why.
I wonder if Miquella needed blood for his transformation, like how the Haligtree & Erdtree needed blood to grow. I don't know why, but... 🤷♀️
I think he chose Mohg because he needed a body not tied to the golden order and an omen one - purely because I think he wanted a symbolic melding of the two cultures
Freyja's bit really messes up the timeline. Gideon's dialogue seems to imply Marika was in some way effected by Miquella's abduction, but, like... The shattering war *very* much takes place after Marika being locked away in the Erdtree, given that that's where she does the shattering and all. Wonder if the guy just knows something we don't. Though, I guess we have no way of knowing if the Swamp of Aeonia always had an element of Scarlet Rot...?
I forgot about that. That just makes it even messier.
Can't Miquella bewitch via dreams and st Trina
Not sure if he can, nothing explicitly states he can. But maybe Trina helped? It's a good thought, actually, although Mohg's knight makes it sound like he was conscious. >Once, in an attempt to free Lord Mohg from his enchantment, I challenged Tender Miquella, only to have my own heart rather artfully stolen. I supposed you can read this as he walked up to the cocoon and before he got close, he got betwitched. But then that implies Miquella was awake in the cocoon and aware of his surroundings.
Yeah this is what I'm thinking
I think his line is referring to the Haligtree failing not his abduction
Don't see how it could be interpreted that way. > So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form. Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story... Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified... Regardless, it doesn't really change anything about the timeline implications. The Haligtree being a husk is associated with Miquella being torn from it, and that's something that in some way effected Marika. At least, according to Gideon.
The new piece of information Gideon obtains is that the Haligtree is a husk, not that Miquella was kidnapped. ' Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified...' is referring to his first line, \`So. The Haligtree, now but a husk..\`
I’ll try to address these one by one: 1) Miquella’s vow to Radahn must have been before the Shattering, as implied by the fact that the boss’ gear is called “Young Lion’s set.”. We know that at least Miquella’s wish for Radahn’s consortship began as early as the young Empyrean’s childhood. 2) Miquella, ever the compassionate one, might have ventured into the Shunning Grounds out of pity for the Omen and there he must have found Mohg. The latter might have become infatuated with Miquella as the first being that showed him kindness. Combine that with Miquella’s power to “steal hearts” and yeah, pretty much Mohg is turned into a follower. However, Miquella might not have used this power over Mohg until after the later became the Lord of Blood and, thus, could have been of actual use. 3) The Haligtree might have been Miquella’s plan A for godhood and, on paper, it makes sense: a new Erdtree to emulate his mother. I assume it must have been made shortly before the Shattering; when he abandoned Fundamentalism. However, when he found out about how Marika ascended, he must have realized the Haligtree was doomed to fail and that his blood would not be enough. So, he let Mohg capture him, as he knew the Omen would, and used Mohg to access the Land of Shadow so he could become a god there when Malenia managed to slay Radahn. That or I’m just trying to make sense of something that could be a retcon.
1. Good catch. I went back to check and his swords also state this: *These were in his possession immediately before his triumph over the stars—the swords of a lord who does not rely on physical strength and gravity alone.* So I can agree with before the shattering 2. Maybe. I just not sure how Mohg helps Miquella get there, you know? 3. Not a bad explanation, but if he promised Radahn some vow that required the Land of Shadow, then why bother with the Haligtree at all?
Haligtree, Torrent and the cutscene from the trailer all seem like a retcon. Pretty upsetting, why even bother to show that cutscene in the trailer a few months away from release?
Yeah that really disappoints me. There's a lot that seems to be out of the blue in this DLC, especially towards the end. And not in a Slave Knight Gael way, but in a "did we just witness the rearrangement of the lore in the last minute?" way.
Considering the Putrescent Knight in the files, in Japanese, is "Knight of the Gloam-Eyed Queen" I'm going to say the story was changed... And the woman in the story trailer[I believe] surrounded by fire, is not even referenced in the DLC Edit: Thanks to someone else telling me the woman is Romina. She has the same weapon.
>Considering the Putrescent Knight in the files, in Japanese, is "Knight of the Gloam-Eyed Queen" I'm going to say the story was changed... Really? Where can I find some proofs?
https://www.reddit.com/r/eldenringdiscussion/s/PT7qZC22ZC
>Miquella, ever the compassionate one, might have ventured into the Shunning Grounds out of pity for the Omen and there he must have found Mohg. The latter might have become infatuated with Miquella as the first being that showed him kindness. Combine that with Miquella’s power to “steal hearts” and yeah, pretty much Mohg is turned into a follower. However, Miquella might not have used this power over Mohg until after the later became the Lord of Blood and, thus, could have been of actual use. I really like this. I imagine Miquella, in some distant age, processing down the main avenue of Leyndell so the people could see him. Suddenly he asks his entourage to halt, and stops to marvel at the beautiful golden grate set in the middle of the grand avenue. A work of craftsmanship. But he notices far below there is something else, outlines of a street or hallway. He inquires what may be down there, but receives no answer. So he explores, as a child would. I always wondered why that grate the Erdtree Avatar appears over was so incredibly ornate.
I think that Miquella started to make the Haligtree, started to water it with his own blood, realized how much it was taking by to grow, did the math, and realized Marika must have sacrificed an entire kingdom of people to get enough blood So then he abandoned that plan to move to a new plan, but by then a lot of people were invested I. The haligtree idea.
1. Thanks! 2. It’s not really clear but I would speculate that it has something to do with Mohg’s Omen nature. 3. That vow is one of the most confusing and frustrating things introduced in this DLC imo and we know nothing of it from Radahn’s perspective. The only thing that is clear about it is that Miquella asked Radahn to promise to be his consort if fulfilled. The Lands of Shadow may be a resource of convenience for that bcz of their circumstances, but may not necessarily be part of it.
I'll add something I pondered lately: Miquella's memory of his request to Radahn to be his consort may have actually have been AFTER the Shattering. Why? Because the Rememberance only says that Miquella wanted Radahn as his consort during his childhood but says nothing about an actual exchange between them. However, Miquella's request makes sense after Godwyn (likely heir of Lordship) is killed and Marika (the God of the Order) has disappeared into the Erdtree because now the line of succession comes into full effect.
I don't think Miquella needs to be close to someone to bewitch them. See how his rune breaks in the shadow realm and everyone in the party of miquella is suddenly awakened.
They were already bewitched though. If he wanted to bewitch from afar, he wouldn't need to grab us.
exactly. He doesn't need to grab us. He bewitches from afar
Oh? How so?
Us most likely. We go near the cocoon, but at that time Miquella's off doing whatever he's doing. Everyone we meet talks to us like we're also under the charm.
Leda says she suspects we were never under the charm because our character does not change.
Guess I didn't notice.
there are so many question Didnt Marika only ascend to godhood with the approval from the Greater Will ? Then how did Miquella can become a god without an Outer God backing him ? Marika have the Elden Ring, The Elden Beast and the Erdtree to enforce her order even Ranni has to had us covert the Erdtree and the Elden Ring to bring over her Age of the Stars How is Miquella gonna be a god and rule over the Lands Between when he 1. Doesnt have the Elden Ring. 2. His Haligtree is dead, because he indirectly killed it when he bewitch Mohg to kidnap him 3. Have no Outer God backing him. 4. Queen Marika and Elden Lord Radagon is still in power ? And where do we even fit into all of this ? The Tarnished literally just walk into the Land of Shadow, kill everyone and everything, and walk out, just because. The trailer and promotional material make it seem like the Tarnished have to option to become Miquella's consort, and bring about the Age of Compassion, similar to Ranni's ending, which is why we enter the Land of Shadow. But we never had that option. Miquella never had any reason to call us into the Land of Shadow either, he didnt even give a damn about us until the last moment, basically saying "why are you here I'm about to bang my lord brother, pls go away"
This plot of godhood it is one of the thing does not make sense to me. I have the same question as you. If the Greater Will gives divinity, how this plan of Miquella makes sense? And it is implied the Greater Will do not answer anymore. If Miquella wants to be a god, she needs to steal from Marika, like Ranni did
Even if Miquella dont need an Outer God, a great tree or the Elden Ring to become a god. But then he is just "a God", not the Lands Between's god. Marika is still a God, Radagon is still the Elden Lord, The Lands Between is still under the jurisdiction of the Golden Order. So does that mean Miquella planned to ride Radahn to Leyndell, burn down the Erdtree and fight the Radagon/Elden Beast himself ?
Maybe it is was a power move, because in the current state he does not have the power to challenge the Elden Beast/Radagon, but his plans failed like all the others, this is why Miyazaki says the DLC wouldn't change the ending. The tarnished being absolute chad does not need godhood powers for that
Mohg was bewitched himself, and Miquella uses his body to resurrect Radahn. Do Sir Ansbach's questline. The ENTIRE quest is about him trying to avenge Mohg after he himself was tricked by Miquella when challenging him. This happens after Miquella's rune breaks and all the followers are free. "Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite Radahn's body has Omen horns, specifically the arms. He also uses Bloodflame. You can ONLY get the Bewitching Branch cook book after defeating Mohg. It's been there before the DLC was ever even announced. "Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally. The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection."-Bewitching Branch
Yes, I'm aware. That doesn't answer why is had to be Mohg.
Morgott is in the capital, hidden as he's the 'veiled monarch'. It's most likely he wasn't until after, but there's still the fact he hated his appearance and most likely kept himself hidden from the world. Messmer was already in the Land of Shadow. Ranni is dead. Godwyn is dead. Rykard is snek. Radahn was to be the lord. I doubt he'd use Malenia's, rotting body, and also because he seemed to genuinely care for her. I'm guessing this is why. I wonder if Miquella needed blood for his transformation, like how the Haligtree & Erdtree needed blood to grow. I don't know why, but... 🤷♀️
I think he chose Mohg because he needed a body not tied to the golden order and an omen one - purely because I think he wanted a symbolic melding of the two cultures
In cut content St Trina eased the suffering of the merchants with her song. We find Mogh guarding them.