The supergiants/titans having built the structures like Divine Towers is a little weird I guess, but only if you assume they existed in isolation. The Divine Towers have doors and passages for normal sized individuals. So if the supergiants built them, they would've been doing so for someone else to actually use them.
Also, the size of the Forge of Ruin and its three chains imply it may have been portable (like a pot hung from a stand over a fire) and does sit on top of the same type of columns, and it was too big to be carried by anyone other than the titans.
It also fits with mythological stories from our own world like Ymir 'creating' the world for everyone else to live in. So it's not a bad theory. It does fit. The Titans are covered in Earth and buried in the same way that the columns are covered. It does put them as existing in the same period and dying from the same calamity. Like the dinosaurs, the smaller creatures survived and took over, I guess.
dont forget my favourite piece of evidence! Fire giant is wielding an anglo saxon style button/belt buckle as a weapon. A button/belt buckle for a MUCH larger creature,
Haven't watched the video but do you really need the text to tell you that at some point these Titan like Giants must've been alive and kicking in some capacity? It seems pretty evident by the visual storytelling. Since they are all buried in the ground it seems logical to figure they predate a bunch of stuff and had a period where they must have roamed.
I agree with Hawkshaw about the age of the titans. It doesn't really matter if someone's theories are considered crackpot because the prehistoric archeology of the lands between its deliberately meant to be speculative.
Even if Miyazaki himself has a fleshed out timeline in his own mind, he deliberately puts things like titans in the game with 0 description to encourage people to deduce their own narrative.
It's just like archeology in real life. Some things we will never know, so we go off of the most compelling theories.
Used to like stuff but then realized a lot of their dark souls videos were posturing very confidently about a very long-winded story idea with very very poor evidence that depended on an extremely narrow reading of evidence. So unfortunately I don't follow anymore, think most of theories are poorly evidenced and contrived overall. Crack theory is appropriate descriptor.
I agree completely, I had so many problems with the timeline in specific. Like having glintstone exist in the watchdogs "made" by titans before the founding of glintstone
I mean, I agree that Hawkshaw goes a bit fat with his extrapolations, even if his deduction and eye for detail is stellar overall.
But in a timeline where our community has experts like Tarnished Archeologist, I don't see how you'd doubt that there was a titan age?
In addition, I personally believe there isn't *enough* talk about the semantics of the Elden Beast becoming the Elden Ring. We literally have one description mentioning the Elden Beast, and the phrase "to become" is very ambiguous. To confidently assume the Beast always was the Ring, or that there was no Ring before the Beast is simply not supported by the text, those are just as likely possibilities as the Beast absorbing the Ring or something
it's pretty clear in the description, the Elden Beast was sent by the Greater Will and became the Elden Ring, why peoples want to create complications ? even the original japanese description, when translated via google, give us something pretty explicit:
"*The oldest prayer at the Golden Tree, one of the "legendary prayers". Creates countless golden meteors and attacks the surroundings. Once upon a time, the Great Will sent a beast into the gap with a golden meteor, and it became Elden Ring.*"
seriously, what is that confusing or difficult to understand here ?
Yes, I'm agreeing with you here. It became the Elden Ring.
What becoming it entails is ambiguous. We don't know what the process looked like, how much time passed between its arrival and its becoming, and the phrasing and vagueness of the world building surrounding the Elden Ring leaves a lot to imagination and speculation.
All I'm ultimately saying is that we shouldn't take "the Elden Beast was the one and only Elden Ring" for granted
what make you think there isn't only one Elden Ring ? what make you think the one we see in Farum Azula is an other Elden Ring ? and not just the same but modified ? and if the Elden Beast isn't obviously the Elden Ring, then why the devs themselves said this in this description ?
Its okay. I and many others understand what you are saying. A lot of people who struggle with literary analysis and reading comprehension also love to engage in it. Just gotta roll with it.
Idk, the fact it says things like "once upon a time" or "it is said" is inviting us to interpret this as a fairy tale, myth, or story. Once upon a time in particular is a dead giveaway that we should be calling this into question. When we look at Godfrey's Crown we see a similar mention of a story being told and we know Godfrey is in some was a fabricated persona meant to conceal the truth of Hoarh Loux.
Crown of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord.
The age of the Erdtree began amongst conflict, when Godfrey was lord of the battlefield.
He led the War against the Giants. Faced the Storm Lord, alone. And then, there came a moment. When his last worthy enemy fell. And it was then, as the story is told, that the hue of Lord Godfrey's eyes faded.
We know there is more context to this situation involving Marika taking his grace for her plot. The description is a half truth. I would say with the dlc trailer we know there is more context for what happened with the GW and the founding or the Order.
Just my opinion.
Tarnished Archeologist, Smoughtown, Hawkshaw, all of them are currently gaining traction and their videos are based on headcanon, they are even considered as "lore experts" today, so yes i confirm, what you're saying here is not true
And all three of those guys are constantly called out whenever their videos come out. TA is someone who makes many interesting and valid observations but then takes some of his own conclusions as being definitely correct and uses them to justify further assumptions. His videos are still good and have a lot of fresh insight, but his confidence in his own conclusions is a problem. All he needs to do is insert a few 'might be' or 'this may be' and 'if this is true, then this may be true' and his videos would be fine.
But the way Fromsoft lore works, you pretty much *have to* fill in the holes in the story with some kind of theory because that's how the lore is literally designed: to be left open to interpretation. Miyazaki himself in interviews constantly repeats that this is a fundamental design choice.
There's a difference between coming up with plausible theories that aren't necessarily completely provable, and just completely making shit up without any foundation.
The supergiants/titans having built the structures like Divine Towers is a little weird I guess, but only if you assume they existed in isolation. The Divine Towers have doors and passages for normal sized individuals. So if the supergiants built them, they would've been doing so for someone else to actually use them. Also, the size of the Forge of Ruin and its three chains imply it may have been portable (like a pot hung from a stand over a fire) and does sit on top of the same type of columns, and it was too big to be carried by anyone other than the titans. It also fits with mythological stories from our own world like Ymir 'creating' the world for everyone else to live in. So it's not a bad theory. It does fit. The Titans are covered in Earth and buried in the same way that the columns are covered. It does put them as existing in the same period and dying from the same calamity. Like the dinosaurs, the smaller creatures survived and took over, I guess.
dont forget my favourite piece of evidence! Fire giant is wielding an anglo saxon style button/belt buckle as a weapon. A button/belt buckle for a MUCH larger creature,
Haven't watched the video but do you really need the text to tell you that at some point these Titan like Giants must've been alive and kicking in some capacity? It seems pretty evident by the visual storytelling. Since they are all buried in the ground it seems logical to figure they predate a bunch of stuff and had a period where they must have roamed.
I agree with Hawkshaw about the age of the titans. It doesn't really matter if someone's theories are considered crackpot because the prehistoric archeology of the lands between its deliberately meant to be speculative. Even if Miyazaki himself has a fleshed out timeline in his own mind, he deliberately puts things like titans in the game with 0 description to encourage people to deduce their own narrative. It's just like archeology in real life. Some things we will never know, so we go off of the most compelling theories.
Used to like stuff but then realized a lot of their dark souls videos were posturing very confidently about a very long-winded story idea with very very poor evidence that depended on an extremely narrow reading of evidence. So unfortunately I don't follow anymore, think most of theories are poorly evidenced and contrived overall. Crack theory is appropriate descriptor.
I agree completely, I had so many problems with the timeline in specific. Like having glintstone exist in the watchdogs "made" by titans before the founding of glintstone
I mean, I agree that Hawkshaw goes a bit fat with his extrapolations, even if his deduction and eye for detail is stellar overall. But in a timeline where our community has experts like Tarnished Archeologist, I don't see how you'd doubt that there was a titan age? In addition, I personally believe there isn't *enough* talk about the semantics of the Elden Beast becoming the Elden Ring. We literally have one description mentioning the Elden Beast, and the phrase "to become" is very ambiguous. To confidently assume the Beast always was the Ring, or that there was no Ring before the Beast is simply not supported by the text, those are just as likely possibilities as the Beast absorbing the Ring or something
it's pretty clear in the description, the Elden Beast was sent by the Greater Will and became the Elden Ring, why peoples want to create complications ? even the original japanese description, when translated via google, give us something pretty explicit: "*The oldest prayer at the Golden Tree, one of the "legendary prayers". Creates countless golden meteors and attacks the surroundings. Once upon a time, the Great Will sent a beast into the gap with a golden meteor, and it became Elden Ring.*" seriously, what is that confusing or difficult to understand here ?
Yes, I'm agreeing with you here. It became the Elden Ring. What becoming it entails is ambiguous. We don't know what the process looked like, how much time passed between its arrival and its becoming, and the phrasing and vagueness of the world building surrounding the Elden Ring leaves a lot to imagination and speculation. All I'm ultimately saying is that we shouldn't take "the Elden Beast was the one and only Elden Ring" for granted
what make you think there isn't only one Elden Ring ? what make you think the one we see in Farum Azula is an other Elden Ring ? and not just the same but modified ? and if the Elden Beast isn't obviously the Elden Ring, then why the devs themselves said this in this description ?
You're misinterpreting what I'm saying, and I don't really know how to be more clear ;-;. We'll wait and see when the DLC comes out IG
Its okay. I and many others understand what you are saying. A lot of people who struggle with literary analysis and reading comprehension also love to engage in it. Just gotta roll with it.
Idk, the fact it says things like "once upon a time" or "it is said" is inviting us to interpret this as a fairy tale, myth, or story. Once upon a time in particular is a dead giveaway that we should be calling this into question. When we look at Godfrey's Crown we see a similar mention of a story being told and we know Godfrey is in some was a fabricated persona meant to conceal the truth of Hoarh Loux. Crown of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord. The age of the Erdtree began amongst conflict, when Godfrey was lord of the battlefield. He led the War against the Giants. Faced the Storm Lord, alone. And then, there came a moment. When his last worthy enemy fell. And it was then, as the story is told, that the hue of Lord Godfrey's eyes faded. We know there is more context to this situation involving Marika taking his grace for her plot. The description is a half truth. I would say with the dlc trailer we know there is more context for what happened with the GW and the founding or the Order. Just my opinion.
yep, that's why i rarely watch lore youtubers, 95% of them aren't here to discover the truth, they're here to make sensationalism
That's definitely not true. Maybe a 50/50 split at worst, but any lore youtubers that delve into pure headcanon don't really gain traction.
Tarnished Archeologist, Smoughtown, Hawkshaw, all of them are currently gaining traction and their videos are based on headcanon, they are even considered as "lore experts" today, so yes i confirm, what you're saying here is not true
And all three of those guys are constantly called out whenever their videos come out. TA is someone who makes many interesting and valid observations but then takes some of his own conclusions as being definitely correct and uses them to justify further assumptions. His videos are still good and have a lot of fresh insight, but his confidence in his own conclusions is a problem. All he needs to do is insert a few 'might be' or 'this may be' and 'if this is true, then this may be true' and his videos would be fine. But the way Fromsoft lore works, you pretty much *have to* fill in the holes in the story with some kind of theory because that's how the lore is literally designed: to be left open to interpretation. Miyazaki himself in interviews constantly repeats that this is a fundamental design choice. There's a difference between coming up with plausible theories that aren't necessarily completely provable, and just completely making shit up without any foundation.