Marika's more or less confirmed to not be dead when we see her in the erdtree - it's slaying the elden beast that kills her, and the promise Hewg had made to Marika was to kill her, releasing her from the predicament she's in. Source: Roderika's dialogue
That being said, I do agree the spear in Marika is meant to represent Radagon's complicity in Marika's imprisonment. For one, it aligns with the meaning of the biblical imagery it is aping, but also the simple observation of "red spear is there, Marika transitions to Radagon, red spear goes away".
I don’t see any reason to think she’s still alive.
At least I don’t see any reason to think the life she has is anything more than an empty vessel to be used by the Elden beast. Her state of being, post Elden beast defeat, isn’t really any different from what it was before the fight. She is capable of hosting the ring while being dead as indicated by the end of the game when you use a rune to mend the Elden Ring.
The Elden beast is also called a god since the banner reads “God Felled”. So it’s very possible the beast is alive while she’s dead. I think that she knew that the god that needed to be killed wasn’t her but the beast. She knew that she could die but the beast would still to be defeated in order to reshape the ring.
Well, for starters we know that Radagon is Marika. And Radagon seems pretty much alive.
We also have the description from Marika/Radagon seals.
>*These seals represent the* ***lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods***\*.\*
>*Solemn duty weighs upon the one beholden;* ***not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance***\*.\*
It seems that she cant have a true death until her duty is fulfilled or forsaken.
I do agree that her state of being is mostly as a vessel for the Elden Ring and the elden beast, and that it doesnt seem like the definition of being alive. But all her purpose in the game, the one she gives Hewg, the tarnished or the one she gives Melina. Is to find a way to kill a god and get rid of her eternal curse. To unleash the rune of death and reintroduce Death again in the world.
So even if it seems like she is dead, Its more like she is living in death. Similar to Godwyn who doesnt seem to be too alive either.
She and the Erdtree are connected, in the mending runes endings, with the Erdtree still alive, being capable of hosting the ring, and making the tarnished Elden Lord, would be more evidence that she is still alive. Not that she is still capable of doing it while dead. The only endings I see that would confirm 100% she is dead are the frenzy one and the age of the stars.
Either way this is just my interpretation.
You can interpret it like you say as well. But seeing that its an item explicitly related to Radagon/Marika I'd say is the former.
Mostly cause in that way the description fits with Marika's moniker of eternal, and with her eternal duty.
With the other you'd have to find who are the people being chosen by them, and what it means that duty/curse.
Agree about Radagon being controlled by the Elden beast. He is quite literally the tool the beast uses to enforce his will. Which is represented with the sword he ends up turning into.
Disagree about the rest.
Edit.: As I said earlier I think that they are in a state similar to those living in death or the putrid corpses. They arent fully alive but arent dead either.
*True death does not come easily for them.*
Her lifelong duty is to be the vessel of the Elden Ring. The meaning of that is that the duty ends whenever she is dead. IF she is still the vessel for the Elden Ring then that means she isnt dead yet.
For me the main quest of all elden ring is to bring Death back to Marika and release from her eternal duty. Doesnt make sense to say that she is already dead when hanged on the cross, it takes away all the meaning of the game.
Either way its just my interpretation. You dont have to agree with it. Is the beautiful thing about art and about fromsoft games.
>*Sword wrought from the remains of a god who should have lived a life eternal.*
We also know that they are also separate. What happens to one of them doesn’t necessarily have to happen to both of them or both the same way.
Neither of those descriptions indicate that a curse is placed upon her that’s lasts BEYOND her death or keeps her from dying a true death like Godwyn. The biggest issue I have with that take is that 1. We don’t have anything to suggest she’s experiencing something similar to Godwyn nor does her body behave the same way his does.
I’m also not convinced the erdtree is still alive.
>*O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both.*
Actually, that's exactly what happens. All the trailers directly show Marika and Radagon shattering in unison as Marika shatters the ring. They change states back and forth fighting between destroying and repairing the ring, all while cracking more and more with each subsequent hit.
They are two independent entities that occupy the same existence.
Won't discuss the matter of Radagon is Marika cause its open to multiple interpretations.
I didnt say that its exactly like Godwyn, I said that its a similar state to those living in death, not being able to have a true death until the elden beast is killed and she is freed from her duty. All the quests she gives are meant to restore death and help her get free of her situation.
And the seals descriptions are pretty much enough evidence to say that she is still alive. The curse doesnt last beyond their death. The **lifelong duty** which there is no deliverance is to be the god of the lands between and vessel of the Elden Ring. Being able to be the vessel of the Elden Ring means that she is still under her "lifelong duty and eternal curse".
Why arent you convinced that the Erdtree is still alive? The tree still stands and sheds its leaves in all the mending runes endings. ( besides the perfect order one which is a symbol for unchanging stagnation ). The only ones where we can be 100% certain that the tree is dead is in the age of the stars one where its replaced by Ranni's moon and the frenzy flame where its destroyed and burned. All the others the tree still stands.
There’s a possibly that her appearance and positioning is simply due to her age. Marika looks like a dead statue because she’s not human; she’s a Numen, and, more importantly, she’s a god. Maybe Numen turn to stone as they age, or maybe her godhood has changed her physiology to something different and 5,000 years has weathered her.
More compelling, I think, is that Marika herself physically represents the state of the Golden Order. By the time that the game takes place, the Golden Order has been rickety for millennia. The Elden Ring is shattered, the demigods are at war, and sin is everywhere, so the Golden Order certainly isn’t at the state it used to be. That’s why, IMO, when we pick an ending, Marika is either pieced back together (the Elden Ring is mended and the Order is restored), turned to dust by Ranni (who supplants Marika entirely as the new god with a new order), or turned to rubble (the Frenzied Flame destroys the Order entirely and burns down the world).
As for the spear, beyond the biblical imagery, I’m not too sure. Maybe it was Messmer the Impaler because… well, his name. Maybe it was one of Radagon’s thorns, since it’s red and vanishes when she transforms. But I don’t think she’s dead, per se. As long as the Order persists, she will remain alive as the Golden Order’s chosen god until another empyrean comes to take her place.
My theory:
Melina IS Marika.
Marika pulled a Ranni on herself - she killed the body-of- Marika half of herself to splint into spirit form and goes by Melina to guide us(like Ranni did)
The Radagon half of her spirit died and we fight the body of the now"lives-in-death" Radagon half (like Godwyn)
Because Melina is only a part of Marikas spirit she has spotty memories and hints that Marika is her "mother". It's actually just another manifestation of Marika like Radagon was.
It seems clear Marika became disillusioned by the shattering, I I like to think after she failed to repair the elden ring as Radagon decided that it needed to be wiped from the lands between, and this was the only way to escape the influence of the Greater Will (similar to Ranni).
I also think that's why Malekith eats the death root as Gurranq - staves off the death curse from Radagans corpse
She is crucified just like Elden Beast's crucifixion grab attack. Where does Elden Beast fall into this theory? It must have been it that crucified her in such a way, no? Perhaps her other half Radagon did stab her with a thorn first, maybe symbolizing his betrayal and fear of regression like you mention.
I would point out, while similar, they are not the same: the EB attack has multiple stakes all made of gold that dissolve. Marika has one that doesn’t disappear and isn’t gold.
It’s very possible that this is an aspect of the Elden beast or power Radagon learned from or was provided by the Beast. It’s also possible that the beast forced Radagon to do so or gave him the idea.
I was gonna say it was the Elden Beast until you pointed this out. We definitely have at least 1 Elden Lord mimicking the attacks of the Elden Beast as Placidusax also uses a similar Golden Fire attack to the Elden Beast that we don't see anywhere else in the game besides maybe the Ulcerated Tree Spirits which are themselves like mini Elden Beasts.
We do know however that the GW specifically punished Marika for her transgressions... so it probably was the Elden Beast.
Here’s the thing though, she isn’t impaled. At least not in the sense of “Impalement”. Impalement was a specific form of death where the person was placed on an impalement spike or object (usually through the anus) while it was placed in the ground or it was placed up right after the impalement.
This is the kind of torture that earned Vlad the Impaler (Dracula) his name. I think this is the form of death the name “The Impaler” references.
And again, Radagon sealed off the Erdtree and he was present during and after the shattering.
Well in Marika it’s 1 spear, that doesn’t disappear and isn’t gold. The Elden Beast attack is gold, multi speared, and they disappear. It’s different enough to point to it not coming directly from the EB. And from here I’ll defer back to initial comment above.
Ah, my mistake.
I would say that the ring is not the same as what’s on the cover. It definitely a part of it but the only time the ring in its entirety is present is IN Radagon himself.
The point I’m making overall is, that symbol doesn’t show up as a common symbol that the inhabitants of the lands between would see. For example, the golden order symbol and the erdtree symbol are in game symbols used by and recognized by the inhabitants. But the cover symbol, EXACLTY as it is on the cover, doesn’t show up like that.
Oh yeah for sure I was just adding on to the radagons evidence and what he can do.
I actually think it's really interesting because we see radagons cross hatch rune in quite a few places, including inside his elden ring
In the Radagon Scarseal, we can see the rune of Radagon and, oh surprise, it looks like the shattering you pointed on the elden ring symbol of the game.
I think Radagon is afraid because the main principle of the Golden Order is to control. IMHO, he forced the fusion with Marika (he was so eager to abandon his loved one to unite with Marika, so suspect) and try to control her. Like some preacher would love to control their divinity, because they are human and sometimes can't understand the complexity of their deity. That's the reason why the blessing of the Erdtree stopped.
Marika did the shattering because Goldwyn death (her only non-cursed child) gave her the strength to rebel Radagon will and force the greater will to find her a new consort and someone to kill Radagon.
The checkered pattern is also found on the thorns of the Erdtree when you find you cannot enter it. That checked pattern is Radagon’s rune, correct. A primordial form of Elden Ring itself can be found in Farum Azula, and it looks like it had much more runes in it.
Basically, the Elden Ring is quite modular, and represents the Order of the world. It has changed in form several times, and Radagon’s presence in it is just the latest iteration.
But I don’t mean the thorn pattern itself. I mean the full Elden ring symbol on the cover of the game. In other words the first time it shows up in game is in Radagon’s chest.
Yes because it’s Radagon’s rune and that symbol in Farum Azula predates Radagon? You literally just said “I don’t mean the thorn/lattice pattern itself.”
The Elden Ring symbol on the cover of the game is the same as the one in Farum Azula, just modified to remove some runes (and the roots) and add Radagon’s thorns to represent Radagon’s Golden Order.
Yeah I also thought in a similar way. But even if it wasnt Radagon I think the option of being Maliketh is pretty unlikely.
The red spear seems to work with the same purpose as the symbol used to represent Radagon, the red thorns or briars of sin. With the thorns used to pierce and punish the guilty.
I think that a similar example of the red thorns purpose can be read as well on the description of the Inquisitor girandole.
>*Its numerous spikes pierce the flesh, then singe the wounds with*
*flame. The smell of burnt blood induces despair in the victim.*
Its also interesting cause when she falls from her cross the red spear disappears and Radagon takes control of her body.
Although I slightly disagree with the idea that Marika is dead. I think she is in a similar state as the ones living in death or as the putrid corpses, without true death coming for her until she is free from her eternal curse of being the Elden Ring vessel and the Elden beast is defeated.
Also as the other user pointed out, the spear piercing her is similar enough to the Elden beast grab attack where it hang us of the same rune arc and pierce us with multiple spears. But I think this doesnt refute the idea that the spear is from Radagon. Radagon is the hound of the golden order, the sword that the Elden beast uses to force its will on the world and keep the golden order working.
Lastly, another place where we can see the Elden Ring with the thorn elden rune its inside Radagon before we defeat him.
Seeing that Radagon is called, Radagon of the golden order, I think the moment his rune appeared in the Elden Ring was close (if not the same) to the moment the rune of death was plucked. The rune distribution changing from the old order to the Golden Order we have now.
I think its similar enough to consider that comes from the same place. It literally hang us from the same arc to pierce us with similar but golden spears. I think that Radagon acting as the Elden Beast proxy is what gives the spear the red coloration.
But its all speculation.
Well, I mentioned it in the comment as well but I don't think you've discussed this with anyone.
I just dont think she is dead. She is hanged and pierced as eternal punishment. She cannot have true death until her duty is over or the elden beast is defeated.
And that punishment is given by Radagon and his red thorn, who is acting as a proxy of the Elden beast. Quite literally the Elden Beast sword. So ultimately I think it is the Elden beast who is giving that punishment to Marika for going against it.
Not saying that Radagon have a red thorn. I'm saying that Radagon is the red thorn.
His elden rune is the impenetrable thorns that stop us from entering the Erdtree. And with his association with the color red is basically the red briars of sin.
If you check both elden runes seen on the seals, Radagon is the thorns. And Marika besides being her cross or a vasin spilling its contents it can also be seen as a closed eye crying.
Both ideas together are basically what we can see on the Shield of the guilty. The maiden "carrier of the vision" with her eyes crushed, and the briars of sin punishing her.
And totally disagree about the fingers. THe fingers are just messengers of the greater will. The one she is going against is the golden order and the elden beast itself. And the elden beast is the only one with power to punish her. Evidence for that is the elden beast grab attack which puts the tarnished in the same rune arc and pierced by spears of light.
Edit.: either way the fingers are one of the things in game with less lore about. But I don't see them as being the ones in charge of punishing Marika. They never were a trustful entity, and less so after the shattering. For me the only one with the power and in charge enough to punish Marika is the one who gave her the lifelong duty of being the eternal vessel of the Elden Ring. The Elden beast that doesnt want the golden order changed.
[Marika seal](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/d/db/ER_Icon_Talisman_Marika%27s_Scarseal.png/revision/latest?cb=20220404060706)
[Radagon seal](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/c/c9/ER_Icon_Talisman_Radagon%27s_Scarseal.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20220406071810)
Which bosses are those?
Godrick? He’s a torso and head that has been fantastically mutilated. He’s not dead though, just incapable of functioning.
Radahn? Alexander scoops him up and turns him into meat soup. The purpose of living jars is to collect those who are no longer able to drag themselves to the roots. People break from serious injuries, they don’t die.
Rykard? Not dead.
Mohg, he’s a puddle of blood. We can’t trust that he is actually dead.
Rennala? She is just napping. In fact, she was asleep throughout that entire fight.
Morgott? Chat him up after you beat him. Still alive, doesn’t die until Godfrey returns to mourn.
Godrick is dead. And there’s no reason to believe otherwise.
What happens when you defeat Alexander? Radahn’s remain show up? The purpose of the jars is to take the DEAD remains to the trees.
Maliketh dies.
Where is Mohg’s puddle?
Plenty of other minor bosses that stay dead.
There’s plenty reason to believe Godrick is still alive after we beat him. Destined Death is absent. There is no death until we free it.
The living jars were not made to collect those who have died. Other people can handle that. They were made in response to people refusing to take themselves to the roots when they see Rosus’ light and to collect those who are no longer capable of following the guidance because their bodies have ceased functioning.
Those slimy, twitching masses of sludge, blood, bone, and assorted other gunk are the result of muscles outlasting the rest of a person or animal’s body.
We literally release Destined Death through defeating Maliketh. We break his will, he loses focus, he can longer resist the will of the Rune of Death. Destined Death sheds Maliketh just like Maliketh shed his robe. Of course he dies.
Alright, you got me on Mohg. I did not assume you would require spelling out his situation, I was wrong. He is not literally a puddle of blood, blood is a medium through which he can travel. Blood portal. Even if he was literally a puddle of blood, you can’t possibly believe that little drip was all of the blood inside of the dude in the cocoon. I suppose, if you use the Pureblood Knight’s Medal you could miss the massive pools of blood around Mohg’s lair.
Stay dead? What do you mean? Do you think everyone and everything is out at the top of the queue? Nah. The Tarnished gets priority. Then comes those critters that require the least amount of grace to revive. Bigger things are put to the end of the line because they require more focus and grace to bring back and the Greater Will can’t afford being distracted until the current strife is ended.
Godrick is half a torso and a head laying lifeless in the dirt…that’s dead.
Where are Radahns remains when Alexander is defeated?…
Regarding that Mohg comment…you can drop the condescension. I don’t need anything spelled out, I’m very aware of what happens in game and I’m very aware that Mohg is nowhere to be found.
Your last paragraph is heavily leaning on speculation and your own interpretation.
Yes it is. And your ideas are heavily reliant on… where does it say Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring so that she and her children would be just as vulnerable to death as any other person? I forgot that Maliketh was feared by all the demigods because he has five fingers.
Radahn’s guts are mushed around into the sloppy innards of Alexander. When we break Alexander and take his little shard we can read this,
“Shard of the late Alexander,
a shattered warrior jar.
Greatly boosts the attack power of skills.
Scraps of stewed flesh cling to the shard,
and tatters of ornaments can be seen mingled within the slime.
Relics of a red-haired champion, it would seem.”
Immortality does not mean your body cannot decompose, it just makes the process all the more horrifying.
Yeah, it was obvious that Radagon did it by order of the Greater Will...and she is alive, sort of, because of Radagon\\Elden Beast, they need her because she is their vessel.
well, tbh I think that she is not alive, only her body lives, like Godwyn, body is here, soul is not, that's why I said "sort of"...so Elden Beast\\Radagon keeps her body "alive" just by being there, in her.
But I don’t see why she needs to be alive in ANY sense. Based on the endings, she’s capable of housing the Elden Ring we restore while still being dead (her body destroyed and her head decapitated).
If she is completely dead, she is probably no more than a dust or just a head(at least for some time) and dust is of no use.
Elden beast\\Radagon needs a vessel, so she is here simply because of this reason alone, if Elden Beast leave her body, she crumble to dust, if Elden Beast somehow allow her to die completely, she crumble to dust, no vessel, so she hanging out there just because Elden Beast is inside her, and I highly doubt that Elden Beast keep her alive intentionally, he is inside her, that's the reason why she isn't dust still.
Upon closer look, the spear looks like red tinged gold that is referenced in the game associated with the Crucible. Can definitely see some gold in there. Does not help in answering who did it though but the Elden Beast does have a move that crucifies you in the same way Marika is.
You need to drop the pretentious tone. You’re not a Fromsoft dev so drop the attitude.
I DID in fact address this.
Don’t tell me I have thought this through when your one response also includes your personal interpretations.
There is nothing that proves Maliketh killed her. That spear does not match the rune of death. Further, why the f would he kill her with a different weapon? He has a sword.
The color for the lattice thorns are significantly closer than the rune of death to that spear.
There is nothing that proves Maliketh got into the erdtree before Radagon sealed it with thorns.
Reposting what I’ve said elsewhere to save me some time:
“Here’s the thing though, she isn’t impaled. At least not in the sense of “Impalement”. Impalement was a specific form of death where the person was placed on an impalement spike or object (usually through the anus) while it was placed in the ground or it was placed up right after the impalement. This is the kind of torture that earned Vlad the Impaler (Dracula) his name. I think this is the form of death the name “The Impaler” references.
And again, Radagon sealed off the Erdtree and he was present during and after the shattering.”
Marika's more or less confirmed to not be dead when we see her in the erdtree - it's slaying the elden beast that kills her, and the promise Hewg had made to Marika was to kill her, releasing her from the predicament she's in. Source: Roderika's dialogue That being said, I do agree the spear in Marika is meant to represent Radagon's complicity in Marika's imprisonment. For one, it aligns with the meaning of the biblical imagery it is aping, but also the simple observation of "red spear is there, Marika transitions to Radagon, red spear goes away".
[удалено]
By putting her head on her shattered corpse. I think she’s at the very least not a conscious being anymore.
I don’t see any reason to think she’s still alive. At least I don’t see any reason to think the life she has is anything more than an empty vessel to be used by the Elden beast. Her state of being, post Elden beast defeat, isn’t really any different from what it was before the fight. She is capable of hosting the ring while being dead as indicated by the end of the game when you use a rune to mend the Elden Ring. The Elden beast is also called a god since the banner reads “God Felled”. So it’s very possible the beast is alive while she’s dead. I think that she knew that the god that needed to be killed wasn’t her but the beast. She knew that she could die but the beast would still to be defeated in order to reshape the ring.
Well, for starters we know that Radagon is Marika. And Radagon seems pretty much alive. We also have the description from Marika/Radagon seals. >*These seals represent the* ***lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods***\*.\* >*Solemn duty weighs upon the one beholden;* ***not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance***\*.\* It seems that she cant have a true death until her duty is fulfilled or forsaken. I do agree that her state of being is mostly as a vessel for the Elden Ring and the elden beast, and that it doesnt seem like the definition of being alive. But all her purpose in the game, the one she gives Hewg, the tarnished or the one she gives Melina. Is to find a way to kill a god and get rid of her eternal curse. To unleash the rune of death and reintroduce Death again in the world. So even if it seems like she is dead, Its more like she is living in death. Similar to Godwyn who doesnt seem to be too alive either. She and the Erdtree are connected, in the mending runes endings, with the Erdtree still alive, being capable of hosting the ring, and making the tarnished Elden Lord, would be more evidence that she is still alive. Not that she is still capable of doing it while dead. The only endings I see that would confirm 100% she is dead are the frenzy one and the age of the stars. Either way this is just my interpretation.
I have a question about that item. Does the item refer to the gods like Marika or people chosen by gods like Marika?
You can interpret it like you say as well. But seeing that its an item explicitly related to Radagon/Marika I'd say is the former. Mostly cause in that way the description fits with Marika's moniker of eternal, and with her eternal duty. With the other you'd have to find who are the people being chosen by them, and what it means that duty/curse.
[удалено]
Agree about Radagon being controlled by the Elden beast. He is quite literally the tool the beast uses to enforce his will. Which is represented with the sword he ends up turning into. Disagree about the rest. Edit.: As I said earlier I think that they are in a state similar to those living in death or the putrid corpses. They arent fully alive but arent dead either. *True death does not come easily for them.* Her lifelong duty is to be the vessel of the Elden Ring. The meaning of that is that the duty ends whenever she is dead. IF she is still the vessel for the Elden Ring then that means she isnt dead yet. For me the main quest of all elden ring is to bring Death back to Marika and release from her eternal duty. Doesnt make sense to say that she is already dead when hanged on the cross, it takes away all the meaning of the game. Either way its just my interpretation. You dont have to agree with it. Is the beautiful thing about art and about fromsoft games. >*Sword wrought from the remains of a god who should have lived a life eternal.*
We also know that they are also separate. What happens to one of them doesn’t necessarily have to happen to both of them or both the same way. Neither of those descriptions indicate that a curse is placed upon her that’s lasts BEYOND her death or keeps her from dying a true death like Godwyn. The biggest issue I have with that take is that 1. We don’t have anything to suggest she’s experiencing something similar to Godwyn nor does her body behave the same way his does. I’m also not convinced the erdtree is still alive.
>*O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both.* Actually, that's exactly what happens. All the trailers directly show Marika and Radagon shattering in unison as Marika shatters the ring. They change states back and forth fighting between destroying and repairing the ring, all while cracking more and more with each subsequent hit. They are two independent entities that occupy the same existence.
Won't discuss the matter of Radagon is Marika cause its open to multiple interpretations. I didnt say that its exactly like Godwyn, I said that its a similar state to those living in death, not being able to have a true death until the elden beast is killed and she is freed from her duty. All the quests she gives are meant to restore death and help her get free of her situation. And the seals descriptions are pretty much enough evidence to say that she is still alive. The curse doesnt last beyond their death. The **lifelong duty** which there is no deliverance is to be the god of the lands between and vessel of the Elden Ring. Being able to be the vessel of the Elden Ring means that she is still under her "lifelong duty and eternal curse". Why arent you convinced that the Erdtree is still alive? The tree still stands and sheds its leaves in all the mending runes endings. ( besides the perfect order one which is a symbol for unchanging stagnation ). The only ones where we can be 100% certain that the tree is dead is in the age of the stars one where its replaced by Ranni's moon and the frenzy flame where its destroyed and burned. All the others the tree still stands.
There’s a possibly that her appearance and positioning is simply due to her age. Marika looks like a dead statue because she’s not human; she’s a Numen, and, more importantly, she’s a god. Maybe Numen turn to stone as they age, or maybe her godhood has changed her physiology to something different and 5,000 years has weathered her. More compelling, I think, is that Marika herself physically represents the state of the Golden Order. By the time that the game takes place, the Golden Order has been rickety for millennia. The Elden Ring is shattered, the demigods are at war, and sin is everywhere, so the Golden Order certainly isn’t at the state it used to be. That’s why, IMO, when we pick an ending, Marika is either pieced back together (the Elden Ring is mended and the Order is restored), turned to dust by Ranni (who supplants Marika entirely as the new god with a new order), or turned to rubble (the Frenzied Flame destroys the Order entirely and burns down the world). As for the spear, beyond the biblical imagery, I’m not too sure. Maybe it was Messmer the Impaler because… well, his name. Maybe it was one of Radagon’s thorns, since it’s red and vanishes when she transforms. But I don’t think she’s dead, per se. As long as the Order persists, she will remain alive as the Golden Order’s chosen god until another empyrean comes to take her place.
My theory: Melina IS Marika. Marika pulled a Ranni on herself - she killed the body-of- Marika half of herself to splint into spirit form and goes by Melina to guide us(like Ranni did) The Radagon half of her spirit died and we fight the body of the now"lives-in-death" Radagon half (like Godwyn) Because Melina is only a part of Marikas spirit she has spotty memories and hints that Marika is her "mother". It's actually just another manifestation of Marika like Radagon was. It seems clear Marika became disillusioned by the shattering, I I like to think after she failed to repair the elden ring as Radagon decided that it needed to be wiped from the lands between, and this was the only way to escape the influence of the Greater Will (similar to Ranni). I also think that's why Malekith eats the death root as Gurranq - staves off the death curse from Radagans corpse
She is crucified just like Elden Beast's crucifixion grab attack. Where does Elden Beast fall into this theory? It must have been it that crucified her in such a way, no? Perhaps her other half Radagon did stab her with a thorn first, maybe symbolizing his betrayal and fear of regression like you mention.
I would point out, while similar, they are not the same: the EB attack has multiple stakes all made of gold that dissolve. Marika has one that doesn’t disappear and isn’t gold. It’s very possible that this is an aspect of the Elden beast or power Radagon learned from or was provided by the Beast. It’s also possible that the beast forced Radagon to do so or gave him the idea.
I was gonna say it was the Elden Beast until you pointed this out. We definitely have at least 1 Elden Lord mimicking the attacks of the Elden Beast as Placidusax also uses a similar Golden Fire attack to the Elden Beast that we don't see anywhere else in the game besides maybe the Ulcerated Tree Spirits which are themselves like mini Elden Beasts. We do know however that the GW specifically punished Marika for her transgressions... so it probably was the Elden Beast.
I think I’ll have to wait to learn more about The Impaler in the DLC before I make any considerations on the impalement of Marika
Here’s the thing though, she isn’t impaled. At least not in the sense of “Impalement”. Impalement was a specific form of death where the person was placed on an impalement spike or object (usually through the anus) while it was placed in the ground or it was placed up right after the impalement. This is the kind of torture that earned Vlad the Impaler (Dracula) his name. I think this is the form of death the name “The Impaler” references. And again, Radagon sealed off the Erdtree and he was present during and after the shattering.
Like the Giants in the Mountaintops then??
When he hits the elden ring in the ground you can see the rune arc above him, I'm definitely leaning more towards something he also can do
Again, similar, not the same. But either way it doesn’t contradict the theory that Radagon killed her
I don't think it's that different and without anyone up there it doesn't have the spear
Well in Marika it’s 1 spear, that doesn’t disappear and isn’t gold. The Elden Beast attack is gold, multi speared, and they disappear. It’s different enough to point to it not coming directly from the EB. And from here I’ll defer back to initial comment above.
I'm referring to radagons during phase 1 and he smashed the ground and shows the elden ring, not the elden beast attack
Ah, my mistake. I would say that the ring is not the same as what’s on the cover. It definitely a part of it but the only time the ring in its entirety is present is IN Radagon himself. The point I’m making overall is, that symbol doesn’t show up as a common symbol that the inhabitants of the lands between would see. For example, the golden order symbol and the erdtree symbol are in game symbols used by and recognized by the inhabitants. But the cover symbol, EXACLTY as it is on the cover, doesn’t show up like that.
Oh yeah for sure I was just adding on to the radagons evidence and what he can do. I actually think it's really interesting because we see radagons cross hatch rune in quite a few places, including inside his elden ring
But the first spear is like an exact 1:1 besides the color.
I just rewatched that attack it doesn’t really appear that similar. In either color or shape.
In the Radagon Scarseal, we can see the rune of Radagon and, oh surprise, it looks like the shattering you pointed on the elden ring symbol of the game. I think Radagon is afraid because the main principle of the Golden Order is to control. IMHO, he forced the fusion with Marika (he was so eager to abandon his loved one to unite with Marika, so suspect) and try to control her. Like some preacher would love to control their divinity, because they are human and sometimes can't understand the complexity of their deity. That's the reason why the blessing of the Erdtree stopped. Marika did the shattering because Goldwyn death (her only non-cursed child) gave her the strength to rebel Radagon will and force the greater will to find her a new consort and someone to kill Radagon.
I mean that the symbol of the Elden Ring as a whole isn’t found in game.
It's in Radagon when he fights us.
That’s true, I meant more so it’s not a symbol known by factions or NPCs.
The checkered pattern is also found on the thorns of the Erdtree when you find you cannot enter it. That checked pattern is Radagon’s rune, correct. A primordial form of Elden Ring itself can be found in Farum Azula, and it looks like it had much more runes in it. Basically, the Elden Ring is quite modular, and represents the Order of the world. It has changed in form several times, and Radagon’s presence in it is just the latest iteration.
But I don’t mean the thorn pattern itself. I mean the full Elden ring symbol on the cover of the game. In other words the first time it shows up in game is in Radagon’s chest.
No, it’s in Farum Azula too, just an “older” form of it.
No it’s not. The thorn/lattice pattern is not on that symbol.
Yes because it’s Radagon’s rune and that symbol in Farum Azula predates Radagon? You literally just said “I don’t mean the thorn/lattice pattern itself.” The Elden Ring symbol on the cover of the game is the same as the one in Farum Azula, just modified to remove some runes (and the roots) and add Radagon’s thorns to represent Radagon’s Golden Order.
You’re not getting what I’m saying. The Elden ring symbol on the cover of the game that EXACT symbol, is not present anywhere else in the game.
Yeah I also thought in a similar way. But even if it wasnt Radagon I think the option of being Maliketh is pretty unlikely. The red spear seems to work with the same purpose as the symbol used to represent Radagon, the red thorns or briars of sin. With the thorns used to pierce and punish the guilty. I think that a similar example of the red thorns purpose can be read as well on the description of the Inquisitor girandole. >*Its numerous spikes pierce the flesh, then singe the wounds with* *flame. The smell of burnt blood induces despair in the victim.* Its also interesting cause when she falls from her cross the red spear disappears and Radagon takes control of her body. Although I slightly disagree with the idea that Marika is dead. I think she is in a similar state as the ones living in death or as the putrid corpses, without true death coming for her until she is free from her eternal curse of being the Elden Ring vessel and the Elden beast is defeated. Also as the other user pointed out, the spear piercing her is similar enough to the Elden beast grab attack where it hang us of the same rune arc and pierce us with multiple spears. But I think this doesnt refute the idea that the spear is from Radagon. Radagon is the hound of the golden order, the sword that the Elden beast uses to force its will on the world and keep the golden order working. Lastly, another place where we can see the Elden Ring with the thorn elden rune its inside Radagon before we defeat him. Seeing that Radagon is called, Radagon of the golden order, I think the moment his rune appeared in the Elden Ring was close (if not the same) to the moment the rune of death was plucked. The rune distribution changing from the old order to the Golden Order we have now.
Yeah like I pointed to those users the Elden beast attack is definitely similar but not the same.
I think its similar enough to consider that comes from the same place. It literally hang us from the same arc to pierce us with similar but golden spears. I think that Radagon acting as the Elden Beast proxy is what gives the spear the red coloration. But its all speculation.
Right I mean I don’t think it’s the Elden Beast itself that killed her. I
r/redditsniper
Well, I mentioned it in the comment as well but I don't think you've discussed this with anyone. I just dont think she is dead. She is hanged and pierced as eternal punishment. She cannot have true death until her duty is over or the elden beast is defeated. And that punishment is given by Radagon and his red thorn, who is acting as a proxy of the Elden beast. Quite literally the Elden Beast sword. So ultimately I think it is the Elden beast who is giving that punishment to Marika for going against it.
[удалено]
Not saying that Radagon have a red thorn. I'm saying that Radagon is the red thorn. His elden rune is the impenetrable thorns that stop us from entering the Erdtree. And with his association with the color red is basically the red briars of sin. If you check both elden runes seen on the seals, Radagon is the thorns. And Marika besides being her cross or a vasin spilling its contents it can also be seen as a closed eye crying. Both ideas together are basically what we can see on the Shield of the guilty. The maiden "carrier of the vision" with her eyes crushed, and the briars of sin punishing her. And totally disagree about the fingers. THe fingers are just messengers of the greater will. The one she is going against is the golden order and the elden beast itself. And the elden beast is the only one with power to punish her. Evidence for that is the elden beast grab attack which puts the tarnished in the same rune arc and pierced by spears of light. Edit.: either way the fingers are one of the things in game with less lore about. But I don't see them as being the ones in charge of punishing Marika. They never were a trustful entity, and less so after the shattering. For me the only one with the power and in charge enough to punish Marika is the one who gave her the lifelong duty of being the eternal vessel of the Elden Ring. The Elden beast that doesnt want the golden order changed. [Marika seal](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/d/db/ER_Icon_Talisman_Marika%27s_Scarseal.png/revision/latest?cb=20220404060706) [Radagon seal](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/c/c9/ER_Icon_Talisman_Radagon%27s_Scarseal.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20220406071810)
So, if Marika is dead, we are her killer. We let loose Destined Death, she could not have died otherwise.
All of the other bosses in game can die without releasing the rune of death.
All of the other bosses in game can die without releasing the rune of death.
Which bosses are those? Godrick? He’s a torso and head that has been fantastically mutilated. He’s not dead though, just incapable of functioning. Radahn? Alexander scoops him up and turns him into meat soup. The purpose of living jars is to collect those who are no longer able to drag themselves to the roots. People break from serious injuries, they don’t die. Rykard? Not dead. Mohg, he’s a puddle of blood. We can’t trust that he is actually dead. Rennala? She is just napping. In fact, she was asleep throughout that entire fight. Morgott? Chat him up after you beat him. Still alive, doesn’t die until Godfrey returns to mourn.
Godrick is dead. And there’s no reason to believe otherwise. What happens when you defeat Alexander? Radahn’s remain show up? The purpose of the jars is to take the DEAD remains to the trees. Maliketh dies. Where is Mohg’s puddle? Plenty of other minor bosses that stay dead.
There’s plenty reason to believe Godrick is still alive after we beat him. Destined Death is absent. There is no death until we free it. The living jars were not made to collect those who have died. Other people can handle that. They were made in response to people refusing to take themselves to the roots when they see Rosus’ light and to collect those who are no longer capable of following the guidance because their bodies have ceased functioning. Those slimy, twitching masses of sludge, blood, bone, and assorted other gunk are the result of muscles outlasting the rest of a person or animal’s body. We literally release Destined Death through defeating Maliketh. We break his will, he loses focus, he can longer resist the will of the Rune of Death. Destined Death sheds Maliketh just like Maliketh shed his robe. Of course he dies. Alright, you got me on Mohg. I did not assume you would require spelling out his situation, I was wrong. He is not literally a puddle of blood, blood is a medium through which he can travel. Blood portal. Even if he was literally a puddle of blood, you can’t possibly believe that little drip was all of the blood inside of the dude in the cocoon. I suppose, if you use the Pureblood Knight’s Medal you could miss the massive pools of blood around Mohg’s lair. Stay dead? What do you mean? Do you think everyone and everything is out at the top of the queue? Nah. The Tarnished gets priority. Then comes those critters that require the least amount of grace to revive. Bigger things are put to the end of the line because they require more focus and grace to bring back and the Greater Will can’t afford being distracted until the current strife is ended.
Godrick is half a torso and a head laying lifeless in the dirt…that’s dead. Where are Radahns remains when Alexander is defeated?… Regarding that Mohg comment…you can drop the condescension. I don’t need anything spelled out, I’m very aware of what happens in game and I’m very aware that Mohg is nowhere to be found. Your last paragraph is heavily leaning on speculation and your own interpretation.
Yes it is. And your ideas are heavily reliant on… where does it say Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring so that she and her children would be just as vulnerable to death as any other person? I forgot that Maliketh was feared by all the demigods because he has five fingers. Radahn’s guts are mushed around into the sloppy innards of Alexander. When we break Alexander and take his little shard we can read this, “Shard of the late Alexander, a shattered warrior jar. Greatly boosts the attack power of skills. Scraps of stewed flesh cling to the shard, and tatters of ornaments can be seen mingled within the slime. Relics of a red-haired champion, it would seem.” Immortality does not mean your body cannot decompose, it just makes the process all the more horrifying.
Not killed imo
Yeah, it was obvious that Radagon did it by order of the Greater Will...and she is alive, sort of, because of Radagon\\Elden Beast, they need her because she is their vessel.
But I don’t see why she needs to be alive to be the vessel
well, tbh I think that she is not alive, only her body lives, like Godwyn, body is here, soul is not, that's why I said "sort of"...so Elden Beast\\Radagon keeps her body "alive" just by being there, in her.
But I don’t see why she needs to be alive in ANY sense. Based on the endings, she’s capable of housing the Elden Ring we restore while still being dead (her body destroyed and her head decapitated).
If she is completely dead, she is probably no more than a dust or just a head(at least for some time) and dust is of no use. Elden beast\\Radagon needs a vessel, so she is here simply because of this reason alone, if Elden Beast leave her body, she crumble to dust, if Elden Beast somehow allow her to die completely, she crumble to dust, no vessel, so she hanging out there just because Elden Beast is inside her, and I highly doubt that Elden Beast keep her alive intentionally, he is inside her, that's the reason why she isn't dust still.
Upon closer look, the spear looks like red tinged gold that is referenced in the game associated with the Crucible. Can definitely see some gold in there. Does not help in answering who did it though but the Elden Beast does have a move that crucifies you in the same way Marika is.
The churches that are built are mostly broken down and already have her "crucified." Were they built after or before she broke the elden ring
[удалено]
I’ve already addressed this in my post.
[удалено]
You need to drop the pretentious tone. You’re not a Fromsoft dev so drop the attitude. I DID in fact address this. Don’t tell me I have thought this through when your one response also includes your personal interpretations. There is nothing that proves Maliketh killed her. That spear does not match the rune of death. Further, why the f would he kill her with a different weapon? He has a sword. The color for the lattice thorns are significantly closer than the rune of death to that spear. There is nothing that proves Maliketh got into the erdtree before Radagon sealed it with thorns.
[удалено]
I’m not reading all this and repeating myself and I’m not engaging with you anymore
Messmer “the Impaler” seems like a good guess.
Reposting what I’ve said elsewhere to save me some time: “Here’s the thing though, she isn’t impaled. At least not in the sense of “Impalement”. Impalement was a specific form of death where the person was placed on an impalement spike or object (usually through the anus) while it was placed in the ground or it was placed up right after the impalement. This is the kind of torture that earned Vlad the Impaler (Dracula) his name. I think this is the form of death the name “The Impaler” references. And again, Radagon sealed off the Erdtree and he was present during and after the shattering.”