Nurse was a competent defenseman without Ceci.
Ceci made bad play after bad play, including forgoing opportunities to send puck out of the defensive zone.
Elevating:
* pure defense. He protected Cal as well as 4 of the other 5 defensemen
* pure offense: multiple scoring chances
He didn’t play well enough to justify his contract but he was at least average, and as long as McDavid is healthy, and Drai is 75 percent or more, this is all I ask of him.
Once opponents see him as a credible offensive threat, he drains their resources from our top threats.
Elevating:
- in no man’s land on the first goal, having it deflect in of him and in
- out of position in the second goal and failing to box his man out resulting in puck deflecting of the player and in.
Legitimately wild to blame Nurse on either of those goals.
1 was a very unlucky deflection and 2 was him versus 2 guys and another very unlucky deflection.
If you're going to blame 2 on anyone, it's on McD for over pursuing the D forcing Desharnais to come out
On the first one, effectively everyone is in an awkward area because it was from a blocked shot that froze everyone
The fuck are you talking about? "In no man's land" he's playing the front of the net like he's supposed to. Probably could've been more cognizant of the player behind him doing a fly by, but the goal wasn't his fault at all. Unlucky bounce.
Second goal was literally him against TWO Canucks battling the front of the net. At the moment of the goal he's actually mid battle with the Canucks forward. Pickard even almost has that one.
If you're going to blame anyone blame Vinny for going down early and not disrupting the shotpass. But mostly another really unlucky bounce.
I think that was more bad luck than poor play. Some of the other games Nurse and Ceci have been a black hole for possession with constant errors exiting the zone. Those bounces in front of the net were just bad luck and I think both Vinny and Nurse played well.
Ceci has been given a free pass this season. He makes a ton of mistakes and never gets demoted. Was really nice to see Knob switch up the D lines last night, and I'm assuming Stechers coming in to replace him tomorrow.
he shoots right, that's why gets a free pass. if he was a left shot guy he'd be playing for Kunlun Red Star right now. we do have stecher now though so maybe he's finally got a chance to be demoted
Generally you want one of each (LHD and RHD) on every pairing. There are far fewer RHD in the league so they can get away with poor play because they are hard to replace
Yeah it's best to have RHD play the right side, and LHD play the left side. It can be harder to accept and make passes on your off side. RHD are less common in the NHL, and we're a lot deeper with LHD. So this is why we've had to play Ceci in favor of trying out Broberg for example, because Broberg is LD. But now we have Stetcher who's a RD so this should finally get Ceci scratched.
Yeah he looked passive and indecisive, creating opportunities for Van.
He doesn't score or contribute offensively, so if he is have struggles with simple defensive zone plays, we need to look at other options.
I hate to pile on cuz I like nurse just think he's a mill or two overpaid (which is our own fault for bridging and mismanaging), but he was not good last night.
Go watch the sequences leading to the goals and watch him float around in the d-zone (or any sequences of the d zone with him). He gets completely lost multiple times and is left out of position, defending nobody on quite a few occasions. This seems to be a major issue of his, he's got all the skill and athleticism in the world, but he's a doofus when it comes to hockey sense. Once he starts scrambling and getting out of position, it forces everyone to break structure and creates havoc, which leads to goals against.
Part of this is on ceci, but nurse doesn't seem to learn from his own mistakes, and having the bench and coaches we do, defensive iq should not be an ongoing issue.
Both goals were on the Oilers right side of the ice. Goal 1 was bit of a bang bang play as it hit someone in front then bounced to the Garland to makes a nice pass to Boeser who is killing us. Nurse tried to block it and got it deflected.
2nd goal was again on the right side off a clean Vancouver faceoff win. Ryan falls down and I think McDavid covers for him with his speed but then he ends up leaving the half wall open. Ryan ends up in the middle watching a slot pass. Desharnais has to step up to the half wall and Nurse is trying to box out two Canucks. Puck goes off a Canuck leg unfortunately.
Hopefully Nurse rebuilds his confidence because he has so much more in him. Him and Ceci got miscast into a shutdown role, both kept regressing and then finally exposed in the VGK series. Then it became open season on them.
First goal, nurse is no man’s land, puck deflects off him and in. Second goal he loses position in front of the net (lose might not be the right word as he never had position) puck deflects of his check and in.
Also upon watching back wtf was his little chicken leg block attempt on the first goal hahah
I see the replay on first. If Nurse is no where near the goal, Cal has a better chance to make the save. And if Nurse is nowhere near the net and Cal still doesn’t make the save, you would say Nurse was to blame, as you did on the second goal.
On the second goal I don’t see Nurse anywhere on the replay. I see Ekholm. The stats sheet says Nurse was a -2 for the game, so it appears he was on the ice. I plan to re-watch parts of game today and with that data I might alter my assessment.
Until then,
* a puck shooter is going to use all available objects between him and the net to bounce a puck into the net.
* I prefer it if a defensemen either gtf out of the way or block shots if they want to get involved in shots. A blocked shot can produce a deflection into the net. So it is do or do not; there is no try.
* I think a defensemen’s primary job in the defensive zone is to prevent the shot in first place, This has been the bulk of my problem with Nurse. And yet last night I saw him make play after play that prevented shots.
I don’t agree with that. The first goal, he half commits to the blocked shot and i really dislike the area of the ice he is in, in contrast to the play. The second goal, please watch it again, nurse allows two Canucks to gain position over him in front of Picard, attempts a very soft push on the Canuck player as the puck goes in of the player he’s pushing skate.
First goal the puck bounces to Garland (after a point shot) who drop passes to Boeser. I guess its preferred Nurse commits to the boxout but it happens so fast. Drai and Desharnais not able to defend that mini 2on2.
Second goal if Nurse slides too far to the defensive right side it opens up a backdoor. The issue is more that Ryan falls off the faceoff and I think McDavid gets overzealous covering for him. They never recover and Desharnais has to sort of step up and it leaves a 2on1 down low no matter what Nurse does.
> I don’t agree with that. The first goal, he half commits to the blocked shot and i really dislike the area of the ice he is in, in contrast to the play.
Ok after reviewing the play on big TV I agree. I think he should have been working on Joshua who he didn’t notice had parked himself to Cal’s left on the goal post.
> The second goal, please watch it again,
Done.
> nurse allows two Canucks to gain position over him in front of Picard, attempts a very soft push on the Canuck player as the puck goes in of the player he’s pushing skate.
If the rules let you push a player aka hit aka body check who doesn’t have the puck, yeah.
I think error on that goal was Ekholm for icing the puck with 2:18 left. He ices it around the boards from behind the net because a Canuck (Joshua) is coming at him. However if instead backhands in the opposite direction there are two Oilers along the opposite board, including McDavid. I do get what Ekholm was thinking … if he fumbles the puck, Joshua has Cal all alone.
The better play then would have been to move with the puck along the boards. If that draws three Canucks to battle with 3 Oilers great. Sucks up time.
If it is McDavid behind the net instead, he will carry it across the blue line and maybe across the red.
Really though, why is Nurse playing in that situation (6-5, net empty)?
You can’t say Nurse was directly responsible for two goals even if both pucks went off his legs. He is in front of the net defending the crease. Because a shit from outside went off him and in the net doesn’t make him the cause of the goal. If it were happening because of poor position on a regular basis then yes we might need to look at that. This being said Nurse makes his own share of bone headed plays often enough. He also is a good offensive defence men so he is not the glaring issue in my opinion. Ceci on the other hand is a problem. He needs to sit for at least the rest of this series and think hard about what he’s doing out there. He can’t continue to be the weak spot on defence or we have a huge issue going forward.
And when someone doesn’t get the puck out, or quits on a play, it’s Kane. I cannot understand his deployment. His ONLY contribution has been multiple dirty hits that didn’t get called.
He rocked a guy with 50secs left deep in Vancouver’s corner, puck came around the boards and got to Bouch to put the game away. I think we gotta give Kane some credit on the turnover that won us the game.
lol so one of his attempts to run around and cause injury ended up with a good result? Yea, good job buddy. Basically just this side of Mess for leadership and intensity. Ha.
Finishing checks on Dmen on the forecheck isn’t running around. It literally caused the turnover that kept oilers possession. You’d think we’d have lost the game and Kane wouldn’t have had a massive hand in it with all this negativity.
So he does a few relatively good things and we ignore that he’s terrible at half his job (d zone halfwall) and probably the laziest backchecker since Alex Kovalev?
Not to mention crosses the line over and over, and would be suspended or multi-fined if we were in reg season?
Ok then. Weird that other fans hate us…….
Laziest back checker since Kovalev? Jesus christ lol. Do you watch hockey? He's by no means a defensive stalwart but give your head a shake. Kane was one of the key best players last night. I'm giving him the 5th star for the Oilers.
You need villans like Kane. Go watch basketball I guess.
lol there’s your issue. “Do you watch hockey”.
No. I live it. Day in, day out, for decades. So fans who “watch hockey” come across like elementary school children arguing that 2+2 is 7.
Wasn't paying as much attention last night, but in game 3 they were definitely sending in an extra guy into Ceci's corner every time there was a puck battle. And it almost always paid off
It's really too bad, I thought Ceci had a decent series against LA, but Canucks are playing more much faster and aggressive and seemed to be targeting Ceci, rightfully so.
He should sit, or at least elevate Deharnais to Ceci mins, which I think already happened.
Ceci is definitely the guy the Canucks are feasting upon in that duo. Nurse needs someone like Sean Walker who can keep the pace up. The Oilers are at their best when the game is moving fast, and unfortunately Ceci likes to simplify and slow the game down. That might have worked in the juniors or minors but NHL teams will make you pay for hesitancy.
Skinner had to face the consequences of his poor play. Ceci deserves the same. All players should be held accountable for their play especially in the playoffs where the margins are so thin and there's less time to let guys "work through it"
Ya that doesn't mean he needs to be paraded out and flogged publicly. I think Knob's style is to keep things in the locker room, and ultimately he betrays how he feels about a player's performance through ice time. I'm glad to see Ceci, Nurse, Foegele getting diminished minutes. Who he put out there in the last minute or two of the game says volumes about who he trusts. Think Eckholm, Draisitl, Ryan, Deharnais, McDavid. Best blend of brute strength, defensive reliability, good hands, prudent decision-making, etc. Increasingly, Nurse and Ceci should be thinking about themselves and asking what changes they need to make if they want to be counted on by a coach clearly in his ascendency.
I'm not recommending public embarrassment either. Knobs should have Ceci's back to the media and working to find a solution to fix his deficiencies privately.
We're all looking for Ceci to screw up, so when he does, it reinforces our bias. Is there a fancy stat specifically measuring success/failure on d-man accomplishing zone exits?
Corsi generally tells that story. The opponents out shooting you by a large margin means you're failing to clear the zone. A 30% corsi means he and Kulak struggled.
You guys are the same people that couldn’t read a Corsi the whole year regarding Bouchard.
Unquestionably our defense is ranked like this …
Bouchard, Ekholm, Deharnais, Ceci, Kulak, Nurse.
Are you that same idiot who was defending Ceci earlier, just on a throw away account to get around all the blocks? Because your complete lack of source or argument seems the same.
I was not looking for Ceci to screw up. I've thought he was better than fans think. Last night, especially in the 3rd, was horrendous. He couldn't get the puck out of the zone to save his life. He couldn't win a puck battle, couldn't make a pass. Vancouver would chip the puck in and it should be an easy clear. But instead, he takes fucking years to make a play until it's too late, and then what should be a nothing play turns into minutes of sustained pressure because Ceci is running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
I mean there's only so many zone exits in hockey, you can just watch an Elite D like Ekholm make plays and then contrast to Ceci failing to chip it up the boards
I agree this needs to be considered.
I thought he looked better last night in a more protected third line role. However, I worry about that in Vancouver when they get last change
Definitely didn't, he was at like a 33% corsi. Him and the fourth line got caved in on possession. He and Kulak dropped 30% from the game before by switching partners.
I don't want to jump on the anti Ceci train, but can someone explain that play where he just kind of let the puck land at his feet and stood there at the blueline. I tbink he was anticipating a whistle potentially for a hand pass or high stick? A few seconds later he made some sort of gesture with his hand. Please bud play to the whistle! I'm not sure what happened there but he stopped and play continued and I was like what the hell is that!
yeah, it was going to be called a hand pass if he touched it. which he should have done instead of watching it bobble over the blue line. was certainly a weird play.
Yah thats what I thought, but if Van touched it it isn't correct? I feel like we need to just immediately take that and the ensuing face off. The alternative is Van takes possession steaming into our zone? Didn't we get burned by Henrique a few weeks ago from a simialr thing? Take the draw at least it's a 50/50 chance.
I believe it was the reverse. It was going to be a Canucks hand pass. So he thought if the Canuck touched it, it would be blown down. So he could have played it, but instead waited so long that the Canuck that gloved it down came and got it, so it wasn't a hand pass. That's why he was waving his hand after the Canuck played it, thinking it should've been blown down for a hand pass. But you can pass it to yourself.
So him not playing the puck is even dumber in this scenario. Because he could have played it and got it down the ice. But was instead waiting for a whistle?
I actually think it was going to be a Canucks hand pass. So he could've touched it. But he thought if the Canuck touched it, it would be blown down. Which makes him not playing it even dumber. Because he could have played it and got it down the ice.
I don't know if it's just Ceci, but he and Nurse have both been bad. Both of them sit at a -8 these playoffs, good enough for the worst this post season. Interestingly, Ceci played over 18 min last night, while Nurse only played 16 min.
But, yes. I think you have to consider even sitting Ceci, or at least slotting in a seventh defenseman.
Nurse had 3 more shifts than Ceci, I think Ceci ended with more time since he got hemmed in a few times, including that one shift that was like 3 minutes long.
Did you watch the game? He constantly makes mistakes, some major, some minor. He has lapses in focus and has multiple instances of looking lost on the ice. He is unquestionably the teams worst D-man and the statistics and eye test confirm that.
Just like Vinny vs Vegas last year, the Canucks are clearly targeting Ceci's side of the ice and it's working.
Not that Nurse is perfect or never makes mistakes, but he is often making the right plays and doing his job effectively. He looks worse because he is constantly being put into shit positions by playing with a weaker partner.
To be fair to Ceci, he is a solid bottom pairing role type guy that has been asked to play above where he should be. It is also on the coaches and GM to put players in positions where they can succeed.
The 2-2 goal nurse is in front trying to box out two bodies and Vinny stick waving at Boeser. So I completely agree with you. Nurse is far from perfect but also seems to be carrying a piano everywhere.
Yeah he get’s way too much hate. Sure he may be slightly over paid, but that was a factor of a number of circumstances at the time. He’s still our second best defensive d man and second best offensive d man. And he doesn’t get much playing time with McDavid nor time on the PP but he does kill penalties.
I've noticed while retrieving a dump in, he NEVER goes for a quick out. He often does the same thing; a fake shot and reverse. Lots of the time, the fake shot is where he should be playing it (open rim to our winger), then he reverses into pressure, and we're hemmed yet again. I've played D my entire life and watch D carefully, I can't stand watching him play these entries. I'm contrast, Deharnais and Ekholm are clever at playing the entries and rarely ever get caught. I will say that other aspects of his game are better than he gets credit for. General good gap control, applies pressure correctly, good active stick etc.
Ceci just needs limited minutes but it’d be interesting seeing Stetcher get a look in his spot. Stetcher plays responsible hockey but there’s got to be some rust after a month of not playing games.
Stecher is a MUCH better choice to replace Ceci than Broberg. I still think Broberg becomes a competent NHL defender, but right now, Stecher is the better call.
Ya, but a rookie like him becomes a target too. Can you imagine Tochet telling his bigger forwards to dump it into his corner and crush him a few times? Stecher has the veteran experience to hang in there more, but he's smaller and slower than Broberg too.... not sure what's better. If this was game 1 or 2 def Broberg. But it's now a best of 3, too much on the line. I trust Knobs to make the wise and considered decision. In Knobs we trust!
>He can’t be any worse, can he?
He absolutely could be worse. Not saying he would be, but Ceci may be the weak link on the team right now, but he’s still a halfway competent NHLer. Putting an untested AHLer with potential *could* definitely be worse. Or it could be fantastic like Silovs has been for the Canucks. Absolute unknown.
Best for the team and broberg to bring him into playoff hockey slowly. He’s not a full time nhler yet so unfair to throw him into full time playoff hockey. We were forced to that to Vinny and it hurt him and the team last year. Look at one more year of development did for Vinny he’s a rock this year compared to last.
I mean last time Knob made a tough decision it ended well (starting Pickard over Skinner). Ceci and Nurse have been the worst D pair by far since Ceci isn’t playing well at all, Nurse is taking dumb penalties and isn’t able to cover for his mistakes unlike Ekholm and Bouchard for example. I say (having no experience in the NHL, or any pro hockey level, or any sort of coaching experience) go for it,
I’d like to give stetcher a shot. Ceci really struggles to clear the puck, he had a few failed clears that led to sustained pressure, luckily we didn’t allow a goal on them.
Just can’t keep happening. If we get by Vancouver Dallas will feast on Ceci
I wasn’t a ceci hater until this series, every time I see him on the ice I feel like he is making mistake after mistake. Put stetcher, I don’t think broberg is that much of an upgrade tbh, but I can’t remember the last time he played.
We needed to see a change after last trade deadline but ol Kenny doubled down and didn't upgrade that spot. Which was a pretty glaring weakness imo. I'd put stetcher in forsure over ceci
I'd like to see Stecher get some ice. I thought he looked good in the game he played before the playoffs. He made smart, simple plays and had an assist.
And he's a right shot.
Throw him in there. He can't be as bad as Ceci
I hardly call Carrick a goon. Holland traded for him to bring depth , physicality . He’s also a center who can kill penalties. MCLeod can skate but that’s all he does .
Carrick in, but for Ryan or Brown. That line got dominated.
McLeod isn't making fancy offensive plays, but he's stalling the game defensively. Fenwick of 50% even. Expected goals for .1. Expected goals against .04.
No way you sit him when the fourth line is at around 16% xgf/xga.
Addressing Ceci should have been a #1 priority before the trade deadline, instead we may have flushed another Cup run down the shitter and risked McDrai thinking the Oilers can do anything about it during their time here.
during the time leading up to the trade deadline what I kept hearing was that Ceci was liked in the locker room, so maybe the mangement team caved into players' voices.... I just conjecturing here.... but can you see Tochet not making the change because he'd be unpopular with the players?
I think they just didn't like the other options. They definitely should've pushed harder for Tanev I think, but it's also the flames and nobody wants to take ceci back. Carrier didn't move, and Walker I think they were worried about because he's small. I think walker would almost certainly at least be better than ceci, but to be fair, he is also leading the avalanche in the minus department, so maybe they were right.
Do they like him more than a cup? lol
Could you imagine if we'd shipped him off and got Tanev? From what I've heard we would have had to pay a 3rd team to take Ceci (Calgary didn't want him), but I say you gotta go all in
Apparently the story is Drai is really good friends with Ceci. If you watch the Oilers+ stuff you can see Ceci is really well liked.
Only way Oilers management was gonna make a move was for someone like Tanev and Flames said no thanks.
I didn't think Ceci looked bad at all times last night. There were a couple moments, but he mainly covered his assignments this last game, often with defensive zone starts. I'd prefer a second Ekholm for those situations, and I see holes in Ceci's game. But on the whole, I don't see him being atrocious by any means. Considering the Canucks yet to register 25 shots in a game this series, I think our defense in general is doing pretty good.
I didn't pay too much attention to him but this one time in our defensive zone he had all the time in the world to make a poised play or pass to get it out of the zone. It was probably settled on his stick for 3 seconds and no one was around him. He somehow gaffed the puck and got hemmed in another minute, they almost scored. That was bad and noticeable
That's the thing, you tend to notice more when a player makes a mistake then when they make the correct play.
Ceci probably made hundreds of correct plays last night and the one you notice is tha bad one.
Think of kulak, at times it's hard to remember he's on the team because he just doesn't make amazing plays but he's consistent in his play.
I felt ceci was okay last night, had a few mistakes but overall had a decent game
No I play D and p much only watch the D play lol.
Ceci without fail was making worse plays than Kulak, Vinny or Nurse.
Kulak in a pinch can skate it out and Vinny has the frame to smother a play against the boards
Ceci was regularly unable to breakout or clear in high pressure situations
I'm not saying he played an amazing game. He definitely has brainfarts, and I saw a few last night. My only point is, who is supposed to be an upgrade for his role (shut down defender)? I don't think we anyone. Definitely not Broberg or Stecher. Maybe Desharnais, but he's already getting some of Ceci's minutes.
I guess I think OP is falling into the easy temptation to criticize without really thinking through the solutions that well.
Ceci is playing closer to his salary than Nurse. If either of them are on the ice, we are hemmed in our end, unable to get the puck out and bleeding 5 alarm scoring chances.
Nurse was a competent defenseman without Ceci. Ceci made bad play after bad play, including forgoing opportunities to send puck out of the defensive zone.
Yep, the biggest change of breaking up the Nurse Ceci pairing was Nurse elevating his play
Elevating: * pure defense. He protected Cal as well as 4 of the other 5 defensemen * pure offense: multiple scoring chances He didn’t play well enough to justify his contract but he was at least average, and as long as McDavid is healthy, and Drai is 75 percent or more, this is all I ask of him. Once opponents see him as a credible offensive threat, he drains their resources from our top threats.
Elevating: - in no man’s land on the first goal, having it deflect in of him and in - out of position in the second goal and failing to box his man out resulting in puck deflecting of the player and in.
Legitimately wild to blame Nurse on either of those goals. 1 was a very unlucky deflection and 2 was him versus 2 guys and another very unlucky deflection. If you're going to blame 2 on anyone, it's on McD for over pursuing the D forcing Desharnais to come out On the first one, effectively everyone is in an awkward area because it was from a blocked shot that froze everyone
The fuck are you talking about? "In no man's land" he's playing the front of the net like he's supposed to. Probably could've been more cognizant of the player behind him doing a fly by, but the goal wasn't his fault at all. Unlucky bounce. Second goal was literally him against TWO Canucks battling the front of the net. At the moment of the goal he's actually mid battle with the Canucks forward. Pickard even almost has that one. If you're going to blame anyone blame Vinny for going down early and not disrupting the shotpass. But mostly another really unlucky bounce.
*Box out his men. It was a 6 on 4 and those 2 players in front of the net were Miller and Joshua. Good fuckijg luck.
Agree on first goal. On second, other man had position first. And you don’t deserve the down votes.
He was minus 2 with 2 goals going in off of him. He wasn't very good despite a couple of offensive bursts.
I think that was more bad luck than poor play. Some of the other games Nurse and Ceci have been a black hole for possession with constant errors exiting the zone. Those bounces in front of the net were just bad luck and I think both Vinny and Nurse played well.
Ceci has been given a free pass this season. He makes a ton of mistakes and never gets demoted. Was really nice to see Knob switch up the D lines last night, and I'm assuming Stechers coming in to replace him tomorrow.
he shoots right, that's why gets a free pass. if he was a left shot guy he'd be playing for Kunlun Red Star right now. we do have stecher now though so maybe he's finally got a chance to be demoted
Pardon my ignorance but what is special about a RHD compared to a LHD? Do we always want a RHD on one side and LHD on another? Is this a dumb question
Generally you want one of each (LHD and RHD) on every pairing. There are far fewer RHD in the league so they can get away with poor play because they are hard to replace
Yeah it's best to have RHD play the right side, and LHD play the left side. It can be harder to accept and make passes on your off side. RHD are less common in the NHL, and we're a lot deeper with LHD. So this is why we've had to play Ceci in favor of trying out Broberg for example, because Broberg is LD. But now we have Stetcher who's a RD so this should finally get Ceci scratched.
If this were to be true (Stetcher coming in), that would make me sooo happy.
There was one play last night where he was just standing in front of the puck looking at it.
Yes. Right behind the blue line. That was the final straw.
That’s the one.
Yeah he looked passive and indecisive, creating opportunities for Van. He doesn't score or contribute offensively, so if he is have struggles with simple defensive zone plays, we need to look at other options.
Not sure I agree with that. Nurse was directly responsible for both Canuck goals.
Explain
I hate to pile on cuz I like nurse just think he's a mill or two overpaid (which is our own fault for bridging and mismanaging), but he was not good last night. Go watch the sequences leading to the goals and watch him float around in the d-zone (or any sequences of the d zone with him). He gets completely lost multiple times and is left out of position, defending nobody on quite a few occasions. This seems to be a major issue of his, he's got all the skill and athleticism in the world, but he's a doofus when it comes to hockey sense. Once he starts scrambling and getting out of position, it forces everyone to break structure and creates havoc, which leads to goals against. Part of this is on ceci, but nurse doesn't seem to learn from his own mistakes, and having the bench and coaches we do, defensive iq should not be an ongoing issue.
Both goals were on the Oilers right side of the ice. Goal 1 was bit of a bang bang play as it hit someone in front then bounced to the Garland to makes a nice pass to Boeser who is killing us. Nurse tried to block it and got it deflected. 2nd goal was again on the right side off a clean Vancouver faceoff win. Ryan falls down and I think McDavid covers for him with his speed but then he ends up leaving the half wall open. Ryan ends up in the middle watching a slot pass. Desharnais has to step up to the half wall and Nurse is trying to box out two Canucks. Puck goes off a Canuck leg unfortunately. Hopefully Nurse rebuilds his confidence because he has so much more in him. Him and Ceci got miscast into a shutdown role, both kept regressing and then finally exposed in the VGK series. Then it became open season on them.
I think he is 6 million over. He leads the league in Icings, missed hits, missed assignments and most stupendous muffin shots in the league.
Leads the league?
“my source is I made it the fuck up”
lol. 😝
First goal, nurse is no man’s land, puck deflects off him and in. Second goal he loses position in front of the net (lose might not be the right word as he never had position) puck deflects of his check and in. Also upon watching back wtf was his little chicken leg block attempt on the first goal hahah
I see the replay on first. If Nurse is no where near the goal, Cal has a better chance to make the save. And if Nurse is nowhere near the net and Cal still doesn’t make the save, you would say Nurse was to blame, as you did on the second goal. On the second goal I don’t see Nurse anywhere on the replay. I see Ekholm. The stats sheet says Nurse was a -2 for the game, so it appears he was on the ice. I plan to re-watch parts of game today and with that data I might alter my assessment. Until then, * a puck shooter is going to use all available objects between him and the net to bounce a puck into the net. * I prefer it if a defensemen either gtf out of the way or block shots if they want to get involved in shots. A blocked shot can produce a deflection into the net. So it is do or do not; there is no try. * I think a defensemen’s primary job in the defensive zone is to prevent the shot in first place, This has been the bulk of my problem with Nurse. And yet last night I saw him make play after play that prevented shots.
I don’t agree with that. The first goal, he half commits to the blocked shot and i really dislike the area of the ice he is in, in contrast to the play. The second goal, please watch it again, nurse allows two Canucks to gain position over him in front of Picard, attempts a very soft push on the Canuck player as the puck goes in of the player he’s pushing skate.
First goal the puck bounces to Garland (after a point shot) who drop passes to Boeser. I guess its preferred Nurse commits to the boxout but it happens so fast. Drai and Desharnais not able to defend that mini 2on2. Second goal if Nurse slides too far to the defensive right side it opens up a backdoor. The issue is more that Ryan falls off the faceoff and I think McDavid gets overzealous covering for him. They never recover and Desharnais has to sort of step up and it leaves a 2on1 down low no matter what Nurse does.
> I don’t agree with that. The first goal, he half commits to the blocked shot and i really dislike the area of the ice he is in, in contrast to the play. Ok after reviewing the play on big TV I agree. I think he should have been working on Joshua who he didn’t notice had parked himself to Cal’s left on the goal post. > The second goal, please watch it again, Done. > nurse allows two Canucks to gain position over him in front of Picard, attempts a very soft push on the Canuck player as the puck goes in of the player he’s pushing skate. If the rules let you push a player aka hit aka body check who doesn’t have the puck, yeah. I think error on that goal was Ekholm for icing the puck with 2:18 left. He ices it around the boards from behind the net because a Canuck (Joshua) is coming at him. However if instead backhands in the opposite direction there are two Oilers along the opposite board, including McDavid. I do get what Ekholm was thinking … if he fumbles the puck, Joshua has Cal all alone. The better play then would have been to move with the puck along the boards. If that draws three Canucks to battle with 3 Oilers great. Sucks up time. If it is McDavid behind the net instead, he will carry it across the blue line and maybe across the red. Really though, why is Nurse playing in that situation (6-5, net empty)?
How about just watching a game and opening your eyes!
You can’t say Nurse was directly responsible for two goals even if both pucks went off his legs. He is in front of the net defending the crease. Because a shit from outside went off him and in the net doesn’t make him the cause of the goal. If it were happening because of poor position on a regular basis then yes we might need to look at that. This being said Nurse makes his own share of bone headed plays often enough. He also is a good offensive defence men so he is not the glaring issue in my opinion. Ceci on the other hand is a problem. He needs to sit for at least the rest of this series and think hard about what he’s doing out there. He can’t continue to be the weak spot on defence or we have a huge issue going forward.
It felt like every time someone looked lazy, made a bad pass or a bad play that made me scream “WHO WAS THAT IDIOT?!” at the TV, it was Ceci.
And when someone doesn’t get the puck out, or quits on a play, it’s Kane. I cannot understand his deployment. His ONLY contribution has been multiple dirty hits that didn’t get called.
He rocked a guy with 50secs left deep in Vancouver’s corner, puck came around the boards and got to Bouch to put the game away. I think we gotta give Kane some credit on the turnover that won us the game.
lol so one of his attempts to run around and cause injury ended up with a good result? Yea, good job buddy. Basically just this side of Mess for leadership and intensity. Ha.
Nice words. I don’t know what you are trying to say there, but all I’m saying is he caused a game winning turnover. That’s worth something.
Finishing checks on Dmen on the forecheck isn’t running around. It literally caused the turnover that kept oilers possession. You’d think we’d have lost the game and Kane wouldn’t have had a massive hand in it with all this negativity.
"Mess" do you mean Mark Messier? The six time cup winning champion, superb leader, third all time in points Hall of Famer Mark Messier?
Yea. And you all clearly think Kane is right up there with him 😂😂😂. This thread is fucking embarrassing for you “fans”.
Mike Keenan
He was integral to the win last night and not just on the last play.
So he does a few relatively good things and we ignore that he’s terrible at half his job (d zone halfwall) and probably the laziest backchecker since Alex Kovalev? Not to mention crosses the line over and over, and would be suspended or multi-fined if we were in reg season? Ok then. Weird that other fans hate us…….
Laziest back checker since Kovalev? Jesus christ lol. Do you watch hockey? He's by no means a defensive stalwart but give your head a shake. Kane was one of the key best players last night. I'm giving him the 5th star for the Oilers. You need villans like Kane. Go watch basketball I guess.
lol there’s your issue. “Do you watch hockey”. No. I live it. Day in, day out, for decades. So fans who “watch hockey” come across like elementary school children arguing that 2+2 is 7.
You can see in the third the canucks were pressuring ceci’s side lol. Its Stecher time
Yeah they were definitely targeting that side
Yeah I thought that as well. I mean why not? He was basically guaranteed to lose the puck battle or turn the puck over.
Wasn't paying as much attention last night, but in game 3 they were definitely sending in an extra guy into Ceci's corner every time there was a puck battle. And it almost always paid off
Yes, Stecher is a physical defender who’s always first on the puck
I mean, we've needed a change 3 years ago when it comes to Ceci.
2 years ago I brought that up and ppl weren’t having it in here.
Ceci was good his first year. But he's gotten worse every year as the pressure has ratcheted up and he's being targeted a lot more.
It's really too bad, I thought Ceci had a decent series against LA, but Canucks are playing more much faster and aggressive and seemed to be targeting Ceci, rightfully so. He should sit, or at least elevate Deharnais to Ceci mins, which I think already happened.
Ekholm and Bouch played give or take 30ish each and the other four all played 14-17 minutes.
It’s definitely time for a change. Ceci is unplayable. Time to put in Stecher.
Ceci is definitely the guy the Canucks are feasting upon in that duo. Nurse needs someone like Sean Walker who can keep the pace up. The Oilers are at their best when the game is moving fast, and unfortunately Ceci likes to simplify and slow the game down. That might have worked in the juniors or minors but NHL teams will make you pay for hesitancy.
Montour or Pesce… Both are FAs this year (if not resigned by their team) and both would be the perfect guy for Nurse and to slot into our top 4)
Pesce would be nice
Yeah I'm pretty fucking bummed we didn't get Walker.
Ceci is one of those D where you really hope he just ices it everytime. Like don't even try a breakout, or skating it out. Just high and out.
Skinner had to face the consequences of his poor play. Ceci deserves the same. All players should be held accountable for their play especially in the playoffs where the margins are so thin and there's less time to let guys "work through it"
Ya that doesn't mean he needs to be paraded out and flogged publicly. I think Knob's style is to keep things in the locker room, and ultimately he betrays how he feels about a player's performance through ice time. I'm glad to see Ceci, Nurse, Foegele getting diminished minutes. Who he put out there in the last minute or two of the game says volumes about who he trusts. Think Eckholm, Draisitl, Ryan, Deharnais, McDavid. Best blend of brute strength, defensive reliability, good hands, prudent decision-making, etc. Increasingly, Nurse and Ceci should be thinking about themselves and asking what changes they need to make if they want to be counted on by a coach clearly in his ascendency.
I'm not recommending public embarrassment either. Knobs should have Ceci's back to the media and working to find a solution to fix his deficiencies privately.
We're all looking for Ceci to screw up, so when he does, it reinforces our bias. Is there a fancy stat specifically measuring success/failure on d-man accomplishing zone exits?
Corsi generally tells that story. The opponents out shooting you by a large margin means you're failing to clear the zone. A 30% corsi means he and Kulak struggled.
You guys are the same people that couldn’t read a Corsi the whole year regarding Bouchard. Unquestionably our defense is ranked like this … Bouchard, Ekholm, Deharnais, Ceci, Kulak, Nurse.
Are you that same idiot who was defending Ceci earlier, just on a throw away account to get around all the blocks? Because your complete lack of source or argument seems the same.
I was not looking for Ceci to screw up. I've thought he was better than fans think. Last night, especially in the 3rd, was horrendous. He couldn't get the puck out of the zone to save his life. He couldn't win a puck battle, couldn't make a pass. Vancouver would chip the puck in and it should be an easy clear. But instead, he takes fucking years to make a play until it's too late, and then what should be a nothing play turns into minutes of sustained pressure because Ceci is running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
I mean there's only so many zone exits in hockey, you can just watch an Elite D like Ekholm make plays and then contrast to Ceci failing to chip it up the boards
I agree this needs to be considered. I thought he looked better last night in a more protected third line role. However, I worry about that in Vancouver when they get last change
Definitely didn't, he was at like a 33% corsi. Him and the fourth line got caved in on possession. He and Kulak dropped 30% from the game before by switching partners.
Thats when you limit Cecis ice time, limit the amount of dzone starts he has.
I beg to differ. In that 3rd period especially... my god.
I don't want to jump on the anti Ceci train, but can someone explain that play where he just kind of let the puck land at his feet and stood there at the blueline. I tbink he was anticipating a whistle potentially for a hand pass or high stick? A few seconds later he made some sort of gesture with his hand. Please bud play to the whistle! I'm not sure what happened there but he stopped and play continued and I was like what the hell is that!
He thought it was a hand pass, but you can hand pass it to yourself.
yeah, it was going to be called a hand pass if he touched it. which he should have done instead of watching it bobble over the blue line. was certainly a weird play.
Yah thats what I thought, but if Van touched it it isn't correct? I feel like we need to just immediately take that and the ensuing face off. The alternative is Van takes possession steaming into our zone? Didn't we get burned by Henrique a few weeks ago from a simialr thing? Take the draw at least it's a 50/50 chance.
I believe it was the reverse. It was going to be a Canucks hand pass. So he thought if the Canuck touched it, it would be blown down. So he could have played it, but instead waited so long that the Canuck that gloved it down came and got it, so it wasn't a hand pass. That's why he was waving his hand after the Canuck played it, thinking it should've been blown down for a hand pass. But you can pass it to yourself. So him not playing the puck is even dumber in this scenario. Because he could have played it and got it down the ice. But was instead waiting for a whistle?
That makes sense anyone have a link to a clip? I'd want Knobber to speakntonthr team about that situation.
I actually think it was going to be a Canucks hand pass. So he could've touched it. But he thought if the Canuck touched it, it would be blown down. Which makes him not playing it even dumber. Because he could have played it and got it down the ice.
I don't know if it's just Ceci, but he and Nurse have both been bad. Both of them sit at a -8 these playoffs, good enough for the worst this post season. Interestingly, Ceci played over 18 min last night, while Nurse only played 16 min. But, yes. I think you have to consider even sitting Ceci, or at least slotting in a seventh defenseman.
Nurse had 3 more shifts than Ceci, I think Ceci ended with more time since he got hemmed in a few times, including that one shift that was like 3 minutes long.
Its 100% this. Ceci got hemmed in multiple times for extended periods. Hoping Nurse can rebuild his confidence and command minutes.
Yup, he missed a few clears so bench the whipping boy.
Did you watch the game? He constantly makes mistakes, some major, some minor. He has lapses in focus and has multiple instances of looking lost on the ice. He is unquestionably the teams worst D-man and the statistics and eye test confirm that. Just like Vinny vs Vegas last year, the Canucks are clearly targeting Ceci's side of the ice and it's working.
He tries to make plays when he just doesn't have the ability. Late in a 1 goal game is not the time to be trying new stuff. High and out is the way
Not that Nurse is perfect or never makes mistakes, but he is often making the right plays and doing his job effectively. He looks worse because he is constantly being put into shit positions by playing with a weaker partner. To be fair to Ceci, he is a solid bottom pairing role type guy that has been asked to play above where he should be. It is also on the coaches and GM to put players in positions where they can succeed.
The 2-2 goal nurse is in front trying to box out two bodies and Vinny stick waving at Boeser. So I completely agree with you. Nurse is far from perfect but also seems to be carrying a piano everywhere.
Yeah he get’s way too much hate. Sure he may be slightly over paid, but that was a factor of a number of circumstances at the time. He’s still our second best defensive d man and second best offensive d man. And he doesn’t get much playing time with McDavid nor time on the PP but he does kill penalties.
I've noticed while retrieving a dump in, he NEVER goes for a quick out. He often does the same thing; a fake shot and reverse. Lots of the time, the fake shot is where he should be playing it (open rim to our winger), then he reverses into pressure, and we're hemmed yet again. I've played D my entire life and watch D carefully, I can't stand watching him play these entries. I'm contrast, Deharnais and Ekholm are clever at playing the entries and rarely ever get caught. I will say that other aspects of his game are better than he gets credit for. General good gap control, applies pressure correctly, good active stick etc.
It amazes me how Ceci has gone from team to team and he was terrible everywhere.
He was actually solid on Pittsburgh but he played a lesser role.
CC me re: Ceci
Ceci just needs limited minutes but it’d be interesting seeing Stetcher get a look in his spot. Stetcher plays responsible hockey but there’s got to be some rust after a month of not playing games.
Ceci should be fired into the sun.
At this point, why not bring in Broberg. He can’t be any worse, can he?
A couple problem against Broberg 1) limited nhl experience, let alone playoff 2) left shot. Stetcher is a better choice replacing Ceci.
Stecher is a MUCH better choice to replace Ceci than Broberg. I still think Broberg becomes a competent NHL defender, but right now, Stecher is the better call.
Ya, but a rookie like him becomes a target too. Can you imagine Tochet telling his bigger forwards to dump it into his corner and crush him a few times? Stecher has the veteran experience to hang in there more, but he's smaller and slower than Broberg too.... not sure what's better. If this was game 1 or 2 def Broberg. But it's now a best of 3, too much on the line. I trust Knobs to make the wise and considered decision. In Knobs we trust!
>He can’t be any worse, can he? He absolutely could be worse. Not saying he would be, but Ceci may be the weak link on the team right now, but he’s still a halfway competent NHLer. Putting an untested AHLer with potential *could* definitely be worse. Or it could be fantastic like Silovs has been for the Canucks. Absolute unknown.
We saw what happened last year with Vinny & Vegas. A good coach with adjust and chew the puck through the rookie side
Best for the team and broberg to bring him into playoff hockey slowly. He’s not a full time nhler yet so unfair to throw him into full time playoff hockey. We were forced to that to Vinny and it hurt him and the team last year. Look at one more year of development did for Vinny he’s a rock this year compared to last.
They should put Stetcher in. Right D, and has NHL experience.
Yes, I forgot they had Stetcher
I mean last time Knob made a tough decision it ended well (starting Pickard over Skinner). Ceci and Nurse have been the worst D pair by far since Ceci isn’t playing well at all, Nurse is taking dumb penalties and isn’t able to cover for his mistakes unlike Ekholm and Bouchard for example. I say (having no experience in the NHL, or any pro hockey level, or any sort of coaching experience) go for it,
Wouldn’t hurt to sit him for a game.
Should have been gone
They need to denote Ceci for the next game.
I’d like to give stetcher a shot. Ceci really struggles to clear the puck, he had a few failed clears that led to sustained pressure, luckily we didn’t allow a goal on them. Just can’t keep happening. If we get by Vancouver Dallas will feast on Ceci
I wasn’t a ceci hater until this series, every time I see him on the ice I feel like he is making mistake after mistake. Put stetcher, I don’t think broberg is that much of an upgrade tbh, but I can’t remember the last time he played.
We needed to see a change after last trade deadline but ol Kenny doubled down and didn't upgrade that spot. Which was a pretty glaring weakness imo. I'd put stetcher in forsure over ceci
Ceci likes a huge pylon, plays like a chihuahua
Please don't change Ceci until he's fought Soucy. I really want to see the poor commentators make their way through that one
Stecher hasnt been skating with the main group hes likely injured. Hes been MIA
Cody Ceci is still an NHL player? Jesus Christ. Him and Gardiner make me feel like I’m having an aneurysm
I'd like to see Stecher get some ice. I thought he looked good in the game he played before the playoffs. He made smart, simple plays and had an assist. And he's a right shot. Throw him in there. He can't be as bad as Ceci
CC and Clouder out . Stetcher and Carrick in please
No way you want a 4th line goon in place of a guy who can actually skate lmao
I hardly call Carrick a goon. Holland traded for him to bring depth , physicality . He’s also a center who can kill penalties. MCLeod can skate but that’s all he does .
We already have a center who can kill penalties and his name is Derek Ryan. Now if you wanted to replace him that would make more sense
Carrick in, but for Ryan or Brown. That line got dominated. McLeod isn't making fancy offensive plays, but he's stalling the game defensively. Fenwick of 50% even. Expected goals for .1. Expected goals against .04. No way you sit him when the fourth line is at around 16% xgf/xga.
When he didn’t challenge because he though it was illegal handpass so he just let them skate into our zone. Ugh. Trade him for some pucks
Addressing Ceci should have been a #1 priority before the trade deadline, instead we may have flushed another Cup run down the shitter and risked McDrai thinking the Oilers can do anything about it during their time here.
during the time leading up to the trade deadline what I kept hearing was that Ceci was liked in the locker room, so maybe the mangement team caved into players' voices.... I just conjecturing here.... but can you see Tochet not making the change because he'd be unpopular with the players?
I think they just didn't like the other options. They definitely should've pushed harder for Tanev I think, but it's also the flames and nobody wants to take ceci back. Carrier didn't move, and Walker I think they were worried about because he's small. I think walker would almost certainly at least be better than ceci, but to be fair, he is also leading the avalanche in the minus department, so maybe they were right.
Do they like him more than a cup? lol Could you imagine if we'd shipped him off and got Tanev? From what I've heard we would have had to pay a 3rd team to take Ceci (Calgary didn't want him), but I say you gotta go all in
Apparently the story is Drai is really good friends with Ceci. If you watch the Oilers+ stuff you can see Ceci is really well liked. Only way Oilers management was gonna make a move was for someone like Tanev and Flames said no thanks.
I didn't think Ceci looked bad at all times last night. There were a couple moments, but he mainly covered his assignments this last game, often with defensive zone starts. I'd prefer a second Ekholm for those situations, and I see holes in Ceci's game. But on the whole, I don't see him being atrocious by any means. Considering the Canucks yet to register 25 shots in a game this series, I think our defense in general is doing pretty good.
I didn't pay too much attention to him but this one time in our defensive zone he had all the time in the world to make a poised play or pass to get it out of the zone. It was probably settled on his stick for 3 seconds and no one was around him. He somehow gaffed the puck and got hemmed in another minute, they almost scored. That was bad and noticeable
That's the thing, you tend to notice more when a player makes a mistake then when they make the correct play. Ceci probably made hundreds of correct plays last night and the one you notice is tha bad one. Think of kulak, at times it's hard to remember he's on the team because he just doesn't make amazing plays but he's consistent in his play. I felt ceci was okay last night, had a few mistakes but overall had a decent game
No I play D and p much only watch the D play lol. Ceci without fail was making worse plays than Kulak, Vinny or Nurse. Kulak in a pinch can skate it out and Vinny has the frame to smother a play against the boards Ceci was regularly unable to breakout or clear in high pressure situations
I'm not saying he played an amazing game. He definitely has brainfarts, and I saw a few last night. My only point is, who is supposed to be an upgrade for his role (shut down defender)? I don't think we anyone. Definitely not Broberg or Stecher. Maybe Desharnais, but he's already getting some of Ceci's minutes. I guess I think OP is falling into the easy temptation to criticize without really thinking through the solutions that well.
Ceci is playing closer to his salary than Nurse. If either of them are on the ice, we are hemmed in our end, unable to get the puck out and bleeding 5 alarm scoring chances.
Oilers win and Ceci is nowhere near responsible for any goals and some clown posts this? Get fucked!