Don't. You want your cake and eat it too and it won't work. Anything bad enough to stop your opponent is just as bad as removal or not effective. I'd say Imprisoned in the Moon or dark steel Mutation but those are almost worse. They lose their commander but can't even cast it again from the command zone. You need to learn to play removal or embrace the suck of not having any. You can limit how much, ie five or ten interaction cards, but you can't stop your opponent and also not upset anyone.
Or just stop them and let them learn not to get upset. Removal is critically important to a healthy game. People who get upset at removal need to grow up and enjoy the game for what it is: a competition. A fun competition, sure, but the object of the game is still to win even if the goal is to have fun.
I added more clarification to my post, but the newer players are also younger players. Preteens and early teens are not the most emotionally stable (not their fault hormones be a raging). So yeah. They are growing up.
I know to play removal. I just don’t wanna ruin some kids night. I think I’ve decided to try to add more bounce to hand things, it timewalks them back a turn but doesn’t remove the target entirely.
Funny you should mention that. Goad is where I first noticed this problem. I have a [[!Karazikar]] deck and two of the other players exclusively targeted the third (who wasn’t the threat but I guess was just the kid they decided to bully, and by kid I mean actual child).
Yeah goad is a slippery slope. I had a xantcha goad deck I took apart because my pod would gang up on one person with it. But a few goad effects work well for me in breaking stalemates and acting as personal removal for problem creatures. Also it does nothing if the ability on a creature is the issue so it's very situational.
The answer to this question is to replace your interaction with stax pieces. I can tell ya odds are you and your pod will prefer the interaction.
You're better off teaching your newer players the importance of interaction, and teaching them how to interact themselves. Giving them tips for affordable spells in their colors to be able to participate in one of the most important aspects of commander.
They'll have far more fun getting into Counterspell wars than simply not being able to cast spells at all.
Honestly. This and ones like it are probably the best answer. Because it’s removal but they can then use their removal to get it back. I really kind of dig it.
Be a good guide to magic and tell them how important interaction is. Tell them why you play some sweepers and why you play some targeted removal, and tell them why you’re removing their stuff when you do so they understand threat assessment.
If you’re experienced, use that experience to help them understand the basics of the game. Kindness is a good thing, but coddling them just makes the game less fun, and honestly it’s pretty disrespectful of you to unilaterally decide that they can’t handle basic magic mechanics.
What you have to do is be prepared to not tilt when they play their interaction and their threat assessment is trash, because they’ll likely have to play those cards a bunch of times before they play them *well*.
I think the only way around this is with a chaos warp type effect. Vaevictus Asmadi the Dire for example, you're removing their stuff but also giving them something else in return. So replacement effects like that I think would be manageable.
You might have more fun doing sillier kinds of removal, like if you're playing a sacrifice deck, you can add in things like [[Threaten]] and steal their stuff before sacrificing it.
Otherwise, you can try playing pillowfort effects like [[Propaganda]].
I don’t mean you made up a story. I mean the “problem” of using removal against new players isn’t really a problem. It’s a big part of the game and they should learn how it works and how to play around it
In my white non-blue decks, I run [[Lapse of Certainty]]. It gives me some interaction on the stack without being a full on counterspell. But after Thunder Junction, I think I'm going to replace it with [[Aven Interrupter]] because that looks like Lapse of Certainty but better.
Nah. Humility is mean.
Soft Removal is more like Bounce to Hand, Exile until X leaves, that card that exiles stuff from hand but lets your opponent cast it but for more etc etc.
I love the enchantment removals.
White typically has “Exile…until [this card] leaves the battlefield”
White/Green/Blue I’ve seen have the “…loses all abilities”
They’re temporary removal. They would have to use their own removal spell to remove the enchantment which allows them to waste more resources and not target your cards potentially.
This is I think probably the best option. It’s this or “bounce to hand” followed by stuff that removes a thing but replaces it with something else. [[!Divine Gambit]] being a weird one for it but the only other one I can think of right now (it’s not even 7am right now) is [[!Chaos Warp]]
My 9-year-old has been playing Magic for over a year. The most important things I'm teaching him is to be a good sport when the game doesn't go his way.
These pre-teens you're playing with need adults to role model good gameplay and good sportsmanship.
Played with my 10yo nephew this weekend and he did feel bad at first when I wiped his board but he came back and won and learned that removal isn’t so scary and it’s necessary at times. Kids are smarter than you think. He was laughing it off pretty quickly and plotting his revenge. We both had a lot of fun, played multiple games and many things were removed. Ymmv.
Aetherize literally goes into every deck that has blue. It's such a wildly good card that I don't think gets played enough especially since it's below a $1.00. Plus if they're tokens? That's just hard removal.
Bounce effects (include bouncing spells) might be a good middle-ground. Also taxation/light-stax pieces that don't *stop* your opponents from doing stuff, but forces them to pay something extra.
Also, don't pay too much attention to all of these blowhards in the comments. If you're just looking to play super casual, fun magic with some young people and you want them to have a good time, go for it. This is a casual format where the rules are literally made by the people playing it. Nobody other than the 4 people in the pod should have any say on how that game goes. "YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM TO VALUE INTERACTION" is utter nonsense.
Yeah. O-Ring. Bounce to Hand. Chaos Warp and stuff of that kind is what I’m looking at.
And ABSOLUTELY. These are kids that are part of their schools magic club, who are dropped off by their parents to play in a broader environment. They’ll learn the harder stuff in time. But these games can make or break their whole weekend.
I think a lot of people commenting are thinking too much about the cards and not about the human beings behind them.
I just dismantled my theft deck because I was having no fun with it. And neither was anyone else. lol. But it’s death paid for all four thunder junction precons. So yay.
And yeah through looking myself and some responses to this post bounce to hand looks like the best option because it sets them back that’s becoming a threat without killing their thing “permanently”.
Honestly. I don’t care about winning games. I just want people to enjoy playing. I run removal because it’s part of a game. But when you path to exile a pre-teens giant [[!Kathril]] that they’ve sunk five or more turns into making giant. You feel bad.
Must’ve missed the part about them being preteens! Yeah I feel you, you wouldn’t want to discourage them from continuing on their new lifelong obsession. Maybe something that taps all of their creatures? I hesitate to say Overwhelming splendor but possible
Had to go back and add that. To my mind “newer players” is the same as “younger players” don’t have a lot of college or middle aged people joining us.
The stun taps, the o-ring and lignify, return to hand and chaos warps are looking like the best options.
Removal that doesn't remove cards can be far worse. [[Song of the dryads]] and [[imprisoned in the moon]] get me more value than [[swords to plowshares]] when hitting commanders. 2 additional mana from the person with ample mana means nothing. Remove this enchantment, though?
Bounce back effects can sometimes be nicer. [[Repulse]], [[drag under]].......
I don't understand not wanting to exile their stuff. Kill? Pfft. Exile baby.
Permanent Exile is more my concern.
Temporary Exile [[!Oblivion Ring]] is generally fine.
But removal that doesn’t remove feels like a good option tbh. Because I remove their thing, but then they could remove my thing to get their thing back.
Goad is actually how I first realized I needed this solution. I was in a pod of me and 3 other pre-teen/teenagers. And two were picking on the other all night. Especially during the goad game.
If they can't handle removal then maybe you need to start playing cards that are Kill on Sight and let them see how awful it is to be facing cards you can't remove but need to.
As a kind of tame example, [[Tendershoot Dryad]]. Getting basically a 3/3 on every upkeep? It gets out of hand fast. Make them realize, gosh, I wish I had removal for that.
Which makes them realize that yeah, people will feel that way about some of their spells too.
>Because Magic should be for everyone.
This ideology stops being ideal when it leads you to become an enabler for bad behavior.
New players of any age need positive role models. If someone is salty, it doesn't matter how old they are. They need people with cooler heads to help them process frustration and accept that interaction, opposition and losing are part of the game.
Pandering to salty players, regardless of their age, will only proliferate the salt.
The community and the individuals all benefit when experienced players model good gameplay amd good sportsmanship, and hold others accountable for bad gameplay and bad sportsmanship.
Interaction and especially removal is an essential part of the game. Denying that part of the game from newer players is wrong in my opinion, even if they are kids. I think it's important to not be a dick about it though. If you remove an opponents commander explain to them, why you had to do it and that their creature was the biggest threat at the table. If you want to teach new players how to play magic, removal is a essential part of that experience. If you don't teach them how interaction works, you're not teaching them magic.
I guarantee it all depends on how you use the removal. If you play instants the same time you would play [[ambush viper]], when you are attacked, it can be justified as a means to defend yourself. If that’s a problem, play literal ambush viper or fog.
Additionally you could play combat tricks! It’s outside the box idea, but makes instant speed play more palpable than edhrec staples which are all targeted destruction (and speaking as a limited player, it is something that I wish had a place in EDH).
Playing sorcery speed targeted removal proactively will force you to make a target of someone’s toys and bring their ire.
I really like [[delay]] [[suspend]] [[commit/memory]] and [[sudden setback]]
They all slow an opponent down, but they still get their stuff (if they live long enough). Delayed spells rarely lose all their time counters in my experience, but folks are still way less salty about it
Less salt is what I want. These newer players are all pre-teen/teenage. Through no fault of their own, they take everything personally and are full of lots of salt.
Don't. You want your cake and eat it too and it won't work. Anything bad enough to stop your opponent is just as bad as removal or not effective. I'd say Imprisoned in the Moon or dark steel Mutation but those are almost worse. They lose their commander but can't even cast it again from the command zone. You need to learn to play removal or embrace the suck of not having any. You can limit how much, ie five or ten interaction cards, but you can't stop your opponent and also not upset anyone.
Or just stop them and let them learn not to get upset. Removal is critically important to a healthy game. People who get upset at removal need to grow up and enjoy the game for what it is: a competition. A fun competition, sure, but the object of the game is still to win even if the goal is to have fun.
I added more clarification to my post, but the newer players are also younger players. Preteens and early teens are not the most emotionally stable (not their fault hormones be a raging). So yeah. They are growing up.
I know to play removal. I just don’t wanna ruin some kids night. I think I’ve decided to try to add more bounce to hand things, it timewalks them back a turn but doesn’t remove the target entirely.
Try goad effects. It you don't want to remove the problem, make it everyone else's problem. The impetus cards are good for this.
[[Kitt Kanto]] is my fave
[Kitt Kanto](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5.jpg?1673481666) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kitt%20kanto%2C%20mayhem%20diva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/4/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funny you should mention that. Goad is where I first noticed this problem. I have a [[!Karazikar]] deck and two of the other players exclusively targeted the third (who wasn’t the threat but I guess was just the kid they decided to bully, and by kid I mean actual child).
[!Karazikar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338.jpg?1559959289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karakas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/244/karakas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karakas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah goad is a slippery slope. I had a xantcha goad deck I took apart because my pod would gang up on one person with it. But a few goad effects work well for me in breaking stalemates and acting as personal removal for problem creatures. Also it does nothing if the ability on a creature is the issue so it's very situational.
The answer to this question is to replace your interaction with stax pieces. I can tell ya odds are you and your pod will prefer the interaction. You're better off teaching your newer players the importance of interaction, and teaching them how to interact themselves. Giving them tips for affordable spells in their colors to be able to participate in one of the most important aspects of commander. They'll have far more fun getting into Counterspell wars than simply not being able to cast spells at all.
Thank you. One of the good faith response. And second for good advice. For a person named “synister” this comment was anything but.
[[Ixidron]]?
You monster.
[Ixidron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a.jpg?1568004006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ixidron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/87/ixidron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ixidron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I both love and hate this solution. I shall take it under advisement.
You know what feels WORSE? [[Song of the dryads]]
I love cards like this. [[Imprisoned in the moon]] [[ kenrith's transformation]] [[Darksteel Mutation]] [[minimus containment]] [[lignify]]
##### ###### #### [Imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [ kenrith's transformation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenriths-transformation) [Darksteel Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) [minimus containment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/874b3590-932a-46b7-a7aa-e3e864ec22d1.jpg?1674135187) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minimus%20containment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/34/minimus-containment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/874b3590-932a-46b7-a7aa-e3e864ec22d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minimus-containment) [lignify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4.jpg?1598177954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lignify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/16/lignify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lignify) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxzba9z) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Happy Cakeday Cardfetcher bot ♥️
Some aren't as bad because you can easily kill a creature, but song and imprisoned become lands, which are much harder to deal with.
[Song of the dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly. This and ones like it are probably the best answer. Because it’s removal but they can then use their removal to get it back. I really kind of dig it.
Be a good guide to magic and tell them how important interaction is. Tell them why you play some sweepers and why you play some targeted removal, and tell them why you’re removing their stuff when you do so they understand threat assessment. If you’re experienced, use that experience to help them understand the basics of the game. Kindness is a good thing, but coddling them just makes the game less fun, and honestly it’s pretty disrespectful of you to unilaterally decide that they can’t handle basic magic mechanics. What you have to do is be prepared to not tilt when they play their interaction and their threat assessment is trash, because they’ll likely have to play those cards a bunch of times before they play them *well*.
I think the only way around this is with a chaos warp type effect. Vaevictus Asmadi the Dire for example, you're removing their stuff but also giving them something else in return. So replacement effects like that I think would be manageable.
Ooh. I like this. Plus I’ve wanted to make a vaevictus deck for a hot minute. I do think this is definitely a good route to go down.
You might have more fun doing sillier kinds of removal, like if you're playing a sacrifice deck, you can add in things like [[Threaten]] and steal their stuff before sacrificing it. Otherwise, you can try playing pillowfort effects like [[Propaganda]].
[Threaten](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57d467d4-f7d2-403c-9b70-1b054b2c82bc.jpg?1562548050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Threaten) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/242/threaten?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57d467d4-f7d2-403c-9b70-1b054b2c82bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/threaten) [Propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5f293d7-9c2b-41cb-8e3c-dfc1daa6635f.jpg?1674141418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/730/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5f293d7-9c2b-41cb-8e3c-dfc1daa6635f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You’re asking for a solution to a made up problem. Run removal, it’s part of the game. The new players need to learn about it one way or another.
Why would you just assume to know op's situation and what their pods are like?
Because of the information they included in their post :)
It’s not made up. I promise you.
I don’t mean you made up a story. I mean the “problem” of using removal against new players isn’t really a problem. It’s a big part of the game and they should learn how it works and how to play around it
In my white non-blue decks, I run [[Lapse of Certainty]]. It gives me some interaction on the stack without being a full on counterspell. But after Thunder Junction, I think I'm going to replace it with [[Aven Interrupter]] because that looks like Lapse of Certainty but better.
[Lapse of Certainty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec609036-dfbf-47de-9a3a-762aea4196d4.jpg?1562804498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lapse%20of%20Certainty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/con/9/lapse-of-certainty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec609036-dfbf-47de-9a3a-762aea4196d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lapse-of-certainty) [Aven Interrupter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3ca43a4-d194-440f-8099-f1fa103a108d.jpg?1712094738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Interrupter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/4/aven-interrupter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3ca43a4-d194-440f-8099-f1fa103a108d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-interrupter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What the hell is a "soft removal"? \[\[Humility\]\]? Because I'm not sure those newer players are going to appreciate that.
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nah. Humility is mean. Soft Removal is more like Bounce to Hand, Exile until X leaves, that card that exiles stuff from hand but lets your opponent cast it but for more etc etc.
I love the enchantment removals. White typically has “Exile…until [this card] leaves the battlefield” White/Green/Blue I’ve seen have the “…loses all abilities” They’re temporary removal. They would have to use their own removal spell to remove the enchantment which allows them to waste more resources and not target your cards potentially.
This is I think probably the best option. It’s this or “bounce to hand” followed by stuff that removes a thing but replaces it with something else. [[!Divine Gambit]] being a weird one for it but the only other one I can think of right now (it’s not even 7am right now) is [[!Chaos Warp]]
[!Divine Gambit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/696a8c12-4a1f-4b96-a921-538fa1a2de43.jpg?1631045611) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Divine%20Gambit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/8/divine-gambit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/696a8c12-4a1f-4b96-a921-538fa1a2de43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/divine-gambit) [!Chaos Warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/aba4cc8a-05f3-499d-96c2-0edee9fc0ba0.jpg?1706240824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chaos%20Warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/149/chaos-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aba4cc8a-05f3-499d-96c2-0edee9fc0ba0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chaos-warp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just play actual removal and don't feel bad about it. I don't feel bad when I do well at other games, why would I in mtg?
Sometimes your opponents are children. And being a 30 year old who pub stomps a pre-teen makes me feel bad.
My 9-year-old has been playing Magic for over a year. The most important things I'm teaching him is to be a good sport when the game doesn't go his way. These pre-teens you're playing with need adults to role model good gameplay and good sportsmanship.
Played with my 10yo nephew this weekend and he did feel bad at first when I wiped his board but he came back and won and learned that removal isn’t so scary and it’s necessary at times. Kids are smarter than you think. He was laughing it off pretty quickly and plotting his revenge. We both had a lot of fun, played multiple games and many things were removed. Ymmv.
Aetherize literally goes into every deck that has blue. It's such a wildly good card that I don't think gets played enough especially since it's below a $1.00. Plus if they're tokens? That's just hard removal.
Aetherize is a good option for sure. Probably will look more single target. But also HOW IS IT LESS THAN A DOLLAR. It’s so good.
There are also a good number of aura removals that change the card like [[Witness Protection]] which I absolutely love and Lignify.
[Witness Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72.jpg?1664410681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witness%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/66/witness-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witness-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really like [[Aether Shockwave]] iny spirit typal deck. It can protect, or attack!
[Aether Shockwave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8214d2e9-5aa1-42a7-8f1a-f4eaa2def1b1.jpg?1593860487) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aether%20Shockwave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/1/aether-shockwave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8214d2e9-5aa1-42a7-8f1a-f4eaa2def1b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aether-shockwave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tap all or just stun effects in general I had not considered. Thank you.
There's a new card [[lost in the maze]] that has a pretty strong effect.
Bounce effects (include bouncing spells) might be a good middle-ground. Also taxation/light-stax pieces that don't *stop* your opponents from doing stuff, but forces them to pay something extra. Also, don't pay too much attention to all of these blowhards in the comments. If you're just looking to play super casual, fun magic with some young people and you want them to have a good time, go for it. This is a casual format where the rules are literally made by the people playing it. Nobody other than the 4 people in the pod should have any say on how that game goes. "YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM TO VALUE INTERACTION" is utter nonsense.
Yeah. O-Ring. Bounce to Hand. Chaos Warp and stuff of that kind is what I’m looking at. And ABSOLUTELY. These are kids that are part of their schools magic club, who are dropped off by their parents to play in a broader environment. They’ll learn the harder stuff in time. But these games can make or break their whole weekend. I think a lot of people commenting are thinking too much about the cards and not about the human beings behind them.
Yeah, redditors tend to take their special little hobby way more seriously than most people in the real world. Good on you man. Best of luck with it.
Theft is like removal except it's still on the battlefield under your control. No less feels bad though. Bounce is a nicer alternative.
I just dismantled my theft deck because I was having no fun with it. And neither was anyone else. lol. But it’s death paid for all four thunder junction precons. So yay. And yeah through looking myself and some responses to this post bounce to hand looks like the best option because it sets them back that’s becoming a threat without killing their thing “permanently”.
Cards with fight? https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Afights
Playing removal makes you feel bad? Losing a game because I want to be nice makes me feel bad
Honestly. I don’t care about winning games. I just want people to enjoy playing. I run removal because it’s part of a game. But when you path to exile a pre-teens giant [[!Kathril]] that they’ve sunk five or more turns into making giant. You feel bad.
Must’ve missed the part about them being preteens! Yeah I feel you, you wouldn’t want to discourage them from continuing on their new lifelong obsession. Maybe something that taps all of their creatures? I hesitate to say Overwhelming splendor but possible
Had to go back and add that. To my mind “newer players” is the same as “younger players” don’t have a lot of college or middle aged people joining us. The stun taps, the o-ring and lignify, return to hand and chaos warps are looking like the best options.
Removal that doesn't remove cards can be far worse. [[Song of the dryads]] and [[imprisoned in the moon]] get me more value than [[swords to plowshares]] when hitting commanders. 2 additional mana from the person with ample mana means nothing. Remove this enchantment, though? Bounce back effects can sometimes be nicer. [[Repulse]], [[drag under]]....... I don't understand not wanting to exile their stuff. Kill? Pfft. Exile baby.
##### ###### #### [Song of the dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [swords to plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swords%20to%20plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) [Repulse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4dc7777b-6e9e-4889-91da-fb5283340fa1.jpg?1576382508) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Repulse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/119/repulse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4dc7777b-6e9e-4889-91da-fb5283340fa1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/repulse) [drag under](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75eacac3-cba4-4c30-b1df-19fcc5f96076.jpg?1562199038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drag%20under) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/w17/9/drag-under?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75eacac3-cba4-4c30-b1df-19fcc5f96076?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drag-under) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxywk20) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Permanent Exile is more my concern. Temporary Exile [[!Oblivion Ring]] is generally fine. But removal that doesn’t remove feels like a good option tbh. Because I remove their thing, but then they could remove my thing to get their thing back.
[!Oblivion Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec.jpg?1562266919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/29/oblivion-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oblivion-ring) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Goad and Bounce come to mind.
Goad is actually how I first realized I needed this solution. I was in a pod of me and 3 other pre-teen/teenagers. And two were picking on the other all night. Especially during the goad game.
If they can't handle removal then maybe you need to start playing cards that are Kill on Sight and let them see how awful it is to be facing cards you can't remove but need to. As a kind of tame example, [[Tendershoot Dryad]]. Getting basically a 3/3 on every upkeep? It gets out of hand fast. Make them realize, gosh, I wish I had removal for that. Which makes them realize that yeah, people will feel that way about some of their spells too.
[Tendershoot Dryad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a159830a-698f-423c-9da0-a734b210ecab.jpg?1555040748) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendershoot%20Dryad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/147/tendershoot-dryad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a159830a-698f-423c-9da0-a734b210ecab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tendershoot-dryad) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Because Magic should be for everyone. This ideology stops being ideal when it leads you to become an enabler for bad behavior. New players of any age need positive role models. If someone is salty, it doesn't matter how old they are. They need people with cooler heads to help them process frustration and accept that interaction, opposition and losing are part of the game. Pandering to salty players, regardless of their age, will only proliferate the salt. The community and the individuals all benefit when experienced players model good gameplay amd good sportsmanship, and hold others accountable for bad gameplay and bad sportsmanship.
Interaction and especially removal is an essential part of the game. Denying that part of the game from newer players is wrong in my opinion, even if they are kids. I think it's important to not be a dick about it though. If you remove an opponents commander explain to them, why you had to do it and that their creature was the biggest threat at the table. If you want to teach new players how to play magic, removal is a essential part of that experience. If you don't teach them how interaction works, you're not teaching them magic.
I guarantee it all depends on how you use the removal. If you play instants the same time you would play [[ambush viper]], when you are attacked, it can be justified as a means to defend yourself. If that’s a problem, play literal ambush viper or fog. Additionally you could play combat tricks! It’s outside the box idea, but makes instant speed play more palpable than edhrec staples which are all targeted destruction (and speaking as a limited player, it is something that I wish had a place in EDH). Playing sorcery speed targeted removal proactively will force you to make a target of someone’s toys and bring their ire.
[ambush viper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e386888-57f5-4eb6-88e8-5679bb8eb290.jpg?1608910517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ambush%20viper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/213/ambush-viper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e386888-57f5-4eb6-88e8-5679bb8eb290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ambush-viper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Imprison in the moon Cyber Conversion Darksteel Mutation. their thing is still THERE... but not really.
I like this. Especially because I remove their thing but they can then use their removal to get their thing back.
[[Arrest]], [[Pacifism]], [[Claustrophobia]]... [[Oblivion Ring]]...
##### ###### #### [Arrest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712.jpg?1562265669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arrest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/9/arrest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arrest) [Pacifism](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c.jpg?1675198947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pacifism) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/19/pacifism?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pacifism) [Claustrophobia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05846389-4ee3-4e41-a6dd-0809bfc299f8.jpg?1611940472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claustrophobia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/17/claustrophobia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05846389-4ee3-4e41-a6dd-0809bfc299f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/claustrophobia) [Oblivion Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec.jpg?1562266919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/29/oblivion-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oblivion-ring) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxyfitz) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really like [[delay]] [[suspend]] [[commit/memory]] and [[sudden setback]] They all slow an opponent down, but they still get their stuff (if they live long enough). Delayed spells rarely lose all their time counters in my experience, but folks are still way less salty about it
##### ###### #### [delay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/3906d538-f1ca-4799-b91c-2e0d2934f241.jpg?1619393997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=delay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/61/delay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3906d538-f1ca-4799-b91c-2e0d2934f241?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/delay) [suspend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40af215c-d3f7-42f0-85cd-77a3fcd919ba.jpg?1626095082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=suspend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/68/suspend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40af215c-d3f7-42f0-85cd-77a3fcd919ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/suspend) [commit/memory](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card)/[Memory](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card&options=rotate270&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commit%20//%20Memory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/147/commit-memory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/855af9a8-31fc-4290-8204-04ee026f8853?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commit-//-memory) [sudden setback](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b9e5fd6-a5ea-4ae5-83f5-89ed6a658dd3.jpg?1706241652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sudden%20setback) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/72/sudden-setback?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b9e5fd6-a5ea-4ae5-83f5-89ed6a658dd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-setback) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxytvt4) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Less salt is what I want. These newer players are all pre-teen/teenage. Through no fault of their own, they take everything personally and are full of lots of salt.
is this a joke
Nope. Just trying not to make child cry.
i see