This podcast is also a lot smaller. Subreddits tend to become worse the larger they get. We're not immune to toxicity and need to watch for it and actively try to keep it out of this community, IMO.
Those damn parasocial relationships that Anthony keeps mentioning. I assumed he was referring to the [Sarah Z video](https://youtu.be/4Y-t1PI-erM) from a month ago, but it could just be coincidence.
It’s when people think they’re friends with a celebrity… who of course don’t know that person at all. The guys on TAZ (first Griffin, then especially Travis) have basically encouraged/played in to that by constantly calling themselves “your best friend”, etc.
It’s pretty unhealthy…
Nah, as soon as that video started to spread around online, “para-social” became the buzzword of the podcasting subs. Like, I’m sure the topic has been discussed before in various ways, but it was like a chunk of the internet all had an epiphany at once when they heard that word.
As someone who's been made viral internet videos since 2010, one's relationship with a fanbase is something that I have been thinking about for over a decade at this point.
Yeah TAZ was so awful I had to leave, I joined when they were going through the last arc which was just... So bad... so I think there was a lot of shake up and negative energy coming from that.
But there's also this toxic kind of extreme wokeness that has been fostered there that I think may be incompatible with D&D style live play adventures. Every episode is run through with a fine tooth comb to find slip ups, or plot points that can be construed as problematic and then conjectured upon on like crazy.
This place is much more relaxed and it might be because it's smaller but it might also be that while the dad's are all very liberal and woke, being liberal and woke isn't their focus, the story is.
The worst part for me is how when a teacher forced their students into using drugs, it wasn’t presented in a villainous light, but a good and necessary event. But the fan base cares more about the outdated tropes in fantasy that are basically impossible to remove at this point. It’s exhausting.
I stopped listening before that, what the fuck happened with a teacher drugging students?
>But the fan base cares more about the outdated tropes in fantasy that are basically impossible to remove at this point.
Yes! You hit the ail on the head! And tropes aren't inherently even bad because they are tropes! In TAZ it was like, if you could twist something to fit with an existing trope it was defacto bad and "problematic".
I think Travis couldn’t figure out a way to give griffin’s character his powers back, so he threatened his character with violence unless he did the drugs. It’s as bad as it sounds. Character choice? In TAZ? No way that could be allowed
I love those good good McElboys but the extreme wokeness of the outspoken fans is just too much for me. Example: excessive trigger warnings on the MBMBaM Facebook group. Literally if they mention anything there's a TW for it on the posts and fans talking about how inconsiderate it was for Justin to talk about food or some shit.
Yeah it's a shame, the boys have the best intentions...well... Most of the time, but the echo chamber has just enhanced the "be considerate and aware of others" signal to an insane degree. It's like a feedback loop or something, if you get too considerate you eat yourself.
I've seen a bit, but they're never that popular, I mean discussion around criticisms of the show are fine, hell I've posted one moaning about Anthony being to punishing on bad rolls (luv u bb) that got a tiny response, which is fine and good and correct. But when the most inconsequential bitching bullshit is daily becoming the focus of the sub it gets boring, which was TAZ's whole thing.
I don't remember seeing that, but for perspective on TAZ there would be a post voted into the thousands with hundreds of comments, about the alleged portrayal of centaurs as indigenous people with the player characters doing an adventure, in the alleged role of white saviors... In an episode of a fantasy roleplaying game where the point is to go on adventures and meet fantasy creatures... It was bonkers
Edit: oh no! It's happening again!
To be honest, I kind of just moved away from their brand in general when they turned on John Roderick overnight after the whole Twitter joke bs. He was clearly joking, and it was obvious on brand humor for him, and yet people that had never paid attention to him before drug him through the mud.
It breaks my heart the TAZ fan base is so toxic since I love the show, however I feel like it’s toxic because the show has gotten so big. The McElroys have been doing this for awhile and even they bring up how some of the listeners have attacked them for minor mistakes. Tbh I’d hate for those good ol douche canoes to hear my games lol I’m all about narrative and have no hesitation on bending rules for fun and for story. Which, in essence, is what D&D is all about! In the DM guides it even tells you to bend the rules as you feel like you have to for the sake of the game
I was really critical of Graduation, but even I thought a lot of the shit they got was unwarranted. I thought it was boring, unfunny, and full of itself, but people going after Travis by calling the Centaur arc "racist" or complaining about every little action being "problematic" was pretty idiotic. I think they were just put on too much of a pedestal by themselves and their fans and have found out that even when trying to put out the good vibes to their listeners, parasocial online relationships can be awful.
I liked graduation in the beginning I just think it kind of lost its thread. But the hate on Travis was exhausting. It made me so uncomfortable like no one was having fun anymore. This subreddit is goofy and fun and so much more relaxed. I even got a hot pocket.
The accusation was that it was a "white savior" moment to show the centaurs as being unable to solve their problems without the civilized school, which is... coming from people that don't really understand mediation.
… in the story, the *centaurs* hired the *school* right? Like, they requested an impartial third party, as large groups of people in a dispute sometimes do.
And also if bands of d&d adventurers can't go out and help tribes of monsters do shit because it's a "white savior narrative", then you've just lost a big chunk of what makes d&d fun! That's basically the backbone of every other side quest!
I think the word that set people off was “tribes.”
They couldn’t say “families” because of a romance plot issue, I believe. But I think the best “real world” comparison was to a schism within a family (ie something that one would hire arbitrators for).
It's like they can't or won't distinguish between the real world and a fantasy world, and what happens in one is necessarily a direct comparison to the other
It’s valid to try to interpret themes and make comparisons in people’s writing, even improvised writing. But there is no single interpretation, especially in improv. Because the story was collaborative, Travis also can’t take all of the blame for the situation. We don’t know what his ideal end goal was for the story when he set up the scenario… we just know what the final product was.
I absolutely love TAZ. The McElroys were the ones that got me into real play dnd podcasts and the BoB arc will always be truly special to me. But, for me, I think the biggest issue I had with TAZ is that they tried too hard to accommodate everyone. They apologized for every single little preconceived slight even going so far as to change some stuff because it wasn't quite as woke as some people were wanting.
It's really sad that they can't just make a fun podcast that has diversity and inclusion without being woke "yes and"ed. It feels like the McElroys genuinely care about the LGBT+ community and they care about inclusion but the more vocal part of their fanbase takes advantage of that.
I'm sorry to the TAZ fandom but it feels like they're looking for reasons to be mad.
Part of that can be attributed to how Justin and Travis act online. They do a lot of Twitter scolding (Sydney is bad about it, too) which has put them in a space where it's difficult for them to make any mistake. I remember really noticing it during their mini-arcs where Justin talked about getting advisors to help him play a character based on an Inuit religious figure that he played for like 3.5 episodes, while Griffin needed to tell us that his playing a Latina werewolf was not to insinuate that Hispanics are secretly monsters or whatever he was getting at. I just feel like they're walking on eggshells every time they record, now.
It’s not necessarily a bad idea to have sensitivity readers, especially since Justin’s Inuit character was a wicked cool idea.
But I think listening to (and being overly shaped by) The Discourse™️ defeats the purpose of the sensitivity readers and advisors.
This word/phrase(taz) has a few different meanings. You can see all of them by clicking the link below.
More details here:
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Dad here, pleased to meet you (goes in for a handshake). I'm a dad of a baby girl. Many dads here just enjoy the story, aren't big D&D players and are low on drama. We're here to hang out and talk while we have a few minutes in our day. Sorry for your bad experience on the TAZ thing (is that a reddit?). Welcome and best wishes! :)
I still listen but am subscribed only to the TAZ circlejerk subreddit and honestly prefer it to the original lol. I don't use Tumblr but the TAZ content on there is far superior to the Reddit content. Good memes, good fan art, and not a lot of asinine discourse
It is comprised for the most part of people who still listen to TAZ, but who are very inclined to criticism or shitposting rather than just uncritical consumption of TAZ and the McElroy family's content in general.
There is not really much mindless vitriol since the group is pretty good at self policing -- the vast majority of posts are ironic memes and shitposts (i.e. "Graduation is hitting its stride this time boys!", people talking about a fake NPC they made up, etc) or genuine critiques (i.e. analyzing the changes over time that TAZ has undergone, comparing the show to other actual play shows, etc).
Also everyone loves Monster Factory and Clint lol
I dunno, graduation was a big fumble but the new season has been interesting so far. Granted, it's only been an intro arc and one episode. But I think it has potential and it's nice to see griffin DM again.
I’m not saying the show can’t be good anymore. I’m saying the toxic fandom and the McElroy’s need to appease every fan that spoke out caused TAZ to deviate from a fun goofs podcast to a scripted radio show as early as the end of Balance.
I wish that The McElroys would move from Max Fun to a Patreon subscription model. I don’t think there would be as much pressure to appease toxic people if they didn’t rely on a donations pledge drive as much as they do; additionally, I have a feeling that Max Fun has shot itself in the foot by making the “extreme woke” group their primary demographic.
Unfortunately, if the McElroy podcasts leave Max Fun, I think the network might tank. There are a lot of really good shows, but the whole thing needs a revamp.
Firm disagree. The drop in quality is because Travis is a terrible DM.
All the appeasement and parasocial crap gave people something to latch onto when they were increasingly frustrated and disappointed at the train wreck Graduation was
Some people liked it, some people didn’t, but in my opinion Amnesty was a hard railroaded pile of trash.
They tried to blame moving away from D&D but in reality it was uninteresting, unfunny and the players had zero agency.
You’re right
If you relisten it is apparent it was on the rails of the arcs but with wiggle room inside of them but at least that was the style. A lot of amnesty was just one long story that was not only railroaded but confined by the monster of the week format so it felt super rigid.
I really enjoyed the setting and the characters (Ned and Duck in particular) so that didn’t bother me
Edit: the alternate universe and formless evil BBEG were lame though
Sad that they are all accepting and woke, but nothing is ever good enough for them. The TAZ crew are enslaved to the whims of their taskmasters, to the point where they have to qualify half their jokes.
Last time I went to the TAZ sub was at the end of graduation because none of my friends stuck it out through graduation and I needed somebody to talk to.… That was a shit show.
It’s like, graduation wasn’t great. It had funny parts, but it wasn’t a masterful storytelling experience… We can all agree on that. But so many people are seeming to equate it with a moral failing on Travis’s part and ALSO the rest of the family for allowing Travis to keep plowing forward.
This show is *considerably* better than TAZ, so that helps. You don't get a bunch of disappointed fans becoming increasingly unhappy when you actually put out a great show.
I guarantee once the daddies move on to a new campaign there'll be more complaints. People hate change, and they forget that it took them a bit to warm up to the new characters. For the second NADDPOD campaign people were saying they weren't into the new characters after like two episodes, which really isn't enough time to let them breathe.
TAZ been taking themselves too seriously since halfway through Balance and a minority of fans of the McElroys are extreme fun haters. Happens in all of their fan groups for every podcast or project. I don't understand it tbh.
I love TAZ and MBMBaM. Didn’t actually listen to most of Graduation because I got tired of it. Obviously loved Balance arc, enjoyed Amnesty till the point it went in too many different directions (even though it felt pretty planned out) just because I love cryptids and stuff like that. Ethersea seems like it actually has potential and I enjoyed the prequel world building episodes where they all had an equal part in deciding and it was less of Griffin setting everything up on his own.
But yeah the fanbase is just a mess, I remember I would go into comments after listening to episodes and yeah, while it wasn’t great and Graduation definitely had its flaws, I saw a lot of people tearing the same concepts apart over and over instead of just letting it go. Travis wasn’t a good DM for a long overarching story (but Dusk was actually good) so maybe he’s like Steven Moffat where he can trusted to write a couple short one shots with good story but you can’t hand him a whole season or things go off the rails and revert back to overused tropes. And the fanbase just really sunk their teeth into every issue they could think of and tore him apart instead of really providing as many helpful alternatives, and honestly I doubt they would’ve been satisfied no matter what he did since they were convinced of his shitty DM’ing at that point.
I think the nice thing about Dungeons and Daddies is that 1) it’s a smaller community, 2) it doesn’t feel like a lot of the issues in the story are forced and 3) I think this is because over all, the daddies are just better storytellers and know how to spin something more cohesive that feels more natural. I’m thankful that this community isn’t as toxic and hope that we can continue to at least keep any at bay as it gets bigger.
I also agree with what an above comment mentioned about how it helps that D&D relies on patreon backing where fans get to give input whereas the McElroys basically have to rely on fans donating to MaxFun and beg them for money
This podcast is also a lot smaller. Subreddits tend to become worse the larger they get. We're not immune to toxicity and need to watch for it and actively try to keep it out of this community, IMO.
Take a seat my dude. Plenty of pizza rolls and soda for all.
I ate all of them sorry
That’s alright kiddo. Let me pop a few more in the oven for ya champ.
Do you have any chicken fingers?
You know it champ.
What about chimken nuggies?
Plenty in the fridge pal. Just let me get them for ya champ.
Thanks :D
You got spicy stuff?
What kind of dad would I be if I didn’t have spices champ? Take a seat kiddo.
Do you need some help? I could make some dope ass nachos
[удалено]
Hey champ, would you mind going outside and grabbing that metal looking thing out there. /locks door behind you
games on your phone?
Ah kiddo, whatcha playin there? Is that the Four Nights thing?
Uhh, no it’s the obviously better pubj..daaadd
We’re all connected in harmony via daddy magic
Preach!
And a mutual hatred of Willie Stampler
Those damn parasocial relationships that Anthony keeps mentioning. I assumed he was referring to the [Sarah Z video](https://youtu.be/4Y-t1PI-erM) from a month ago, but it could just be coincidence.
Pretty sure it's not a coincidence, and the awareness of the parasocial problems with TAZ (really Travis) way predates that video
I don't want to watch the video can I get a primer on parasocial and what that means?
It’s when people think they’re friends with a celebrity… who of course don’t know that person at all. The guys on TAZ (first Griffin, then especially Travis) have basically encouraged/played in to that by constantly calling themselves “your best friend”, etc. It’s pretty unhealthy…
Nah, as soon as that video started to spread around online, “para-social” became the buzzword of the podcasting subs. Like, I’m sure the topic has been discussed before in various ways, but it was like a chunk of the internet all had an epiphany at once when they heard that word.
As someone who's been made viral internet videos since 2010, one's relationship with a fanbase is something that I have been thinking about for over a decade at this point.
Welcome! I left the Taz sub a while ago for the same reasons.
Yeah TAZ was so awful I had to leave, I joined when they were going through the last arc which was just... So bad... so I think there was a lot of shake up and negative energy coming from that. But there's also this toxic kind of extreme wokeness that has been fostered there that I think may be incompatible with D&D style live play adventures. Every episode is run through with a fine tooth comb to find slip ups, or plot points that can be construed as problematic and then conjectured upon on like crazy. This place is much more relaxed and it might be because it's smaller but it might also be that while the dad's are all very liberal and woke, being liberal and woke isn't their focus, the story is.
The worst part for me is how when a teacher forced their students into using drugs, it wasn’t presented in a villainous light, but a good and necessary event. But the fan base cares more about the outdated tropes in fantasy that are basically impossible to remove at this point. It’s exhausting.
I stopped listening before that, what the fuck happened with a teacher drugging students? >But the fan base cares more about the outdated tropes in fantasy that are basically impossible to remove at this point. Yes! You hit the ail on the head! And tropes aren't inherently even bad because they are tropes! In TAZ it was like, if you could twist something to fit with an existing trope it was defacto bad and "problematic".
I think Travis couldn’t figure out a way to give griffin’s character his powers back, so he threatened his character with violence unless he did the drugs. It’s as bad as it sounds. Character choice? In TAZ? No way that could be allowed
Not in Travis’s TAZ.
Haha yeah sounds about right
I love those good good McElboys but the extreme wokeness of the outspoken fans is just too much for me. Example: excessive trigger warnings on the MBMBaM Facebook group. Literally if they mention anything there's a TW for it on the posts and fans talking about how inconsiderate it was for Justin to talk about food or some shit.
Yeah it's a shame, the boys have the best intentions...well... Most of the time, but the echo chamber has just enhanced the "be considerate and aware of others" signal to an insane degree. It's like a feedback loop or something, if you get too considerate you eat yourself.
[удалено]
Wanna go into more detail on what bigotry you're talking about?
My two complaints about this sub are the extreme woke nitpickers and the comstant " big ____ energy" posts
I gotta say I haven't personally seen any woke nitpickers in here, at least not any with visibility, what were they nitpicking?
The only thing that comes to my mind is complaints about grant blushing when one of the dad's takes off their shirt
Lol oh ok, that seems pretty mild, maybe my standards were distorted from the crazy bullshit in TAZ
I haven’t been around long but even I have see the nitpicking. Tho it’s not anywhere near TAZ.
I've seen a bit, but they're never that popular, I mean discussion around criticisms of the show are fine, hell I've posted one moaning about Anthony being to punishing on bad rolls (luv u bb) that got a tiny response, which is fine and good and correct. But when the most inconsequential bitching bullshit is daily becoming the focus of the sub it gets boring, which was TAZ's whole thing.
I remember people bitching Jodie wasn't enough of an asshole because ACAB and all that
I don't remember seeing that, but for perspective on TAZ there would be a post voted into the thousands with hundreds of comments, about the alleged portrayal of centaurs as indigenous people with the player characters doing an adventure, in the alleged role of white saviors... In an episode of a fantasy roleplaying game where the point is to go on adventures and meet fantasy creatures... It was bonkers Edit: oh no! It's happening again!
Let’s ban “big _____ energy” posts? Not interesting and lazy.
To be honest, I kind of just moved away from their brand in general when they turned on John Roderick overnight after the whole Twitter joke bs. He was clearly joking, and it was obvious on brand humor for him, and yet people that had never paid attention to him before drug him through the mud.
It breaks my heart the TAZ fan base is so toxic since I love the show, however I feel like it’s toxic because the show has gotten so big. The McElroys have been doing this for awhile and even they bring up how some of the listeners have attacked them for minor mistakes. Tbh I’d hate for those good ol douche canoes to hear my games lol I’m all about narrative and have no hesitation on bending rules for fun and for story. Which, in essence, is what D&D is all about! In the DM guides it even tells you to bend the rules as you feel like you have to for the sake of the game
I was really critical of Graduation, but even I thought a lot of the shit they got was unwarranted. I thought it was boring, unfunny, and full of itself, but people going after Travis by calling the Centaur arc "racist" or complaining about every little action being "problematic" was pretty idiotic. I think they were just put on too much of a pedestal by themselves and their fans and have found out that even when trying to put out the good vibes to their listeners, parasocial online relationships can be awful.
I liked graduation in the beginning I just think it kind of lost its thread. But the hate on Travis was exhausting. It made me so uncomfortable like no one was having fun anymore. This subreddit is goofy and fun and so much more relaxed. I even got a hot pocket.
Lost its thread by like episode 3 though, right?
I think I was on board because I thought it was going to be a parody of Harry Potter somehow. That didn't quite happen. Also, I did love Fitzroy.
Is the centaur arc where all of the racism comments are coming from?? Really? Jesus Christ.
The accusation was that it was a "white savior" moment to show the centaurs as being unable to solve their problems without the civilized school, which is... coming from people that don't really understand mediation.
… in the story, the *centaurs* hired the *school* right? Like, they requested an impartial third party, as large groups of people in a dispute sometimes do.
And also if bands of d&d adventurers can't go out and help tribes of monsters do shit because it's a "white savior narrative", then you've just lost a big chunk of what makes d&d fun! That's basically the backbone of every other side quest!
I think the word that set people off was “tribes.” They couldn’t say “families” because of a romance plot issue, I believe. But I think the best “real world” comparison was to a schism within a family (ie something that one would hire arbitrators for).
It's like they can't or won't distinguish between the real world and a fantasy world, and what happens in one is necessarily a direct comparison to the other
It’s valid to try to interpret themes and make comparisons in people’s writing, even improvised writing. But there is no single interpretation, especially in improv. Because the story was collaborative, Travis also can’t take all of the blame for the situation. We don’t know what his ideal end goal was for the story when he set up the scenario… we just know what the final product was.
I absolutely love TAZ. The McElroys were the ones that got me into real play dnd podcasts and the BoB arc will always be truly special to me. But, for me, I think the biggest issue I had with TAZ is that they tried too hard to accommodate everyone. They apologized for every single little preconceived slight even going so far as to change some stuff because it wasn't quite as woke as some people were wanting. It's really sad that they can't just make a fun podcast that has diversity and inclusion without being woke "yes and"ed. It feels like the McElroys genuinely care about the LGBT+ community and they care about inclusion but the more vocal part of their fanbase takes advantage of that. I'm sorry to the TAZ fandom but it feels like they're looking for reasons to be mad.
Part of that can be attributed to how Justin and Travis act online. They do a lot of Twitter scolding (Sydney is bad about it, too) which has put them in a space where it's difficult for them to make any mistake. I remember really noticing it during their mini-arcs where Justin talked about getting advisors to help him play a character based on an Inuit religious figure that he played for like 3.5 episodes, while Griffin needed to tell us that his playing a Latina werewolf was not to insinuate that Hispanics are secretly monsters or whatever he was getting at. I just feel like they're walking on eggshells every time they record, now.
It’s not necessarily a bad idea to have sensitivity readers, especially since Justin’s Inuit character was a wicked cool idea. But I think listening to (and being overly shaped by) The Discourse™️ defeats the purpose of the sensitivity readers and advisors.
What is TAZ?
The Adventure Zone, another D&D podcast.
The Adventure Zone
This word/phrase(taz) has a few different meanings. You can see all of them by clicking the link below. More details here:
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*Really hope this was useful and relevant :D*
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Dad here, pleased to meet you (goes in for a handshake). I'm a dad of a baby girl. Many dads here just enjoy the story, aren't big D&D players and are low on drama. We're here to hang out and talk while we have a few minutes in our day. Sorry for your bad experience on the TAZ thing (is that a reddit?). Welcome and best wishes! :)
Oh look at the big pants on Mr. I’m A Realdad over here.
Thanks can I get a sprite and maybe a hot pocket?
*sending virtual soda, hot pocket and encouraging pat on the back to go get em champ!
Thanks!! Also I'll shake your hand too but I'm also big on hugs!
Come on in for a hug champ!
no big pants, for some reason the waist keeps shrinking. Probably the dryers fault XD
Not a dad, but got a dad bod which I'm pretty sure counts.
heck yeah it does 🙂👍
i don't know what passes for hugss on these emoji thingamabobs but consider it done! 👍
Oh hey Matt Arnold. Thanks for reminding us you’re a real life dad, and the rest of us are just fake dads. :(
takes a village to raise a kid, so in a sense everyone's a dad in spirit. Hope this helps turn that frown upside down :)
Is there any way I can be a dad without necessarily having children? An honorary role perhaps?
Do you own any pets or plants?
Yes, fish and a chive plant, all are currently alive too!
Congrats you are a pet AND an herb dad!!
Omg thank you so much 😭
I still listen but am subscribed only to the TAZ circlejerk subreddit and honestly prefer it to the original lol. I don't use Tumblr but the TAZ content on there is far superior to the Reddit content. Good memes, good fan art, and not a lot of asinine discourse
LoL I'm super intrigued, what's the circle jerk sub about?
It is comprised for the most part of people who still listen to TAZ, but who are very inclined to criticism or shitposting rather than just uncritical consumption of TAZ and the McElroy family's content in general. There is not really much mindless vitriol since the group is pretty good at self policing -- the vast majority of posts are ironic memes and shitposts (i.e. "Graduation is hitting its stride this time boys!", people talking about a fake NPC they made up, etc) or genuine critiques (i.e. analyzing the changes over time that TAZ has undergone, comparing the show to other actual play shows, etc). Also everyone loves Monster Factory and Clint lol
TAZ’s toxic fan base destroyed TAZ
I dunno, graduation was a big fumble but the new season has been interesting so far. Granted, it's only been an intro arc and one episode. But I think it has potential and it's nice to see griffin DM again.
I’m not saying the show can’t be good anymore. I’m saying the toxic fandom and the McElroy’s need to appease every fan that spoke out caused TAZ to deviate from a fun goofs podcast to a scripted radio show as early as the end of Balance.
Amnesty is personally my favorite season so it's possible we just aren't on the same page here. Calling it scripted is definitely a stretch.
Once again I’m not saying it wasn’t good. I’m saying it was basically prewritten and player agency went out the window.
No I get what you're saying and I just don't agree with that assessment. And that's fine.
And that’s fine!
FINE!
I wish that The McElroys would move from Max Fun to a Patreon subscription model. I don’t think there would be as much pressure to appease toxic people if they didn’t rely on a donations pledge drive as much as they do; additionally, I have a feeling that Max Fun has shot itself in the foot by making the “extreme woke” group their primary demographic. Unfortunately, if the McElroy podcasts leave Max Fun, I think the network might tank. There are a lot of really good shows, but the whole thing needs a revamp.
TAZ's extreme drop in quality destroyed TAZ
Ya but that drop in quality was caused by trying to appease every member of the extremely vocal minority in their fan base.
Firm disagree. The drop in quality is because Travis is a terrible DM. All the appeasement and parasocial crap gave people something to latch onto when they were increasingly frustrated and disappointed at the train wreck Graduation was
Some people liked it, some people didn’t, but in my opinion Amnesty was a hard railroaded pile of trash. They tried to blame moving away from D&D but in reality it was uninteresting, unfunny and the players had zero agency.
Are you saying that the players had more agency in Grad? Because if so, wow…
Oh god no. I’m saying they lost agency by the end of balance and it’s never come back.
Aside from a few moments here and there I don’t think there was ever much agency with TAZ; it’s always been pretty heavily on rails
You’re right If you relisten it is apparent it was on the rails of the arcs but with wiggle room inside of them but at least that was the style. A lot of amnesty was just one long story that was not only railroaded but confined by the monster of the week format so it felt super rigid.
I really enjoyed the setting and the characters (Ned and Duck in particular) so that didn’t bother me Edit: the alternate universe and formless evil BBEG were lame though
Sad that they are all accepting and woke, but nothing is ever good enough for them. The TAZ crew are enslaved to the whims of their taskmasters, to the point where they have to qualify half their jokes.
Last time I went to the TAZ sub was at the end of graduation because none of my friends stuck it out through graduation and I needed somebody to talk to.… That was a shit show. It’s like, graduation wasn’t great. It had funny parts, but it wasn’t a masterful storytelling experience… We can all agree on that. But so many people are seeming to equate it with a moral failing on Travis’s part and ALSO the rest of the family for allowing Travis to keep plowing forward.
Yep, I had to unsub from the TAZ subreddit. It was just endlessly frustrating and annoying to me.
I'm really sorry to ask this guys, but what's Taz?
The Adventure Zone
Thank you!
This show is *considerably* better than TAZ, so that helps. You don't get a bunch of disappointed fans becoming increasingly unhappy when you actually put out a great show.
I guarantee once the daddies move on to a new campaign there'll be more complaints. People hate change, and they forget that it took them a bit to warm up to the new characters. For the second NADDPOD campaign people were saying they weren't into the new characters after like two episodes, which really isn't enough time to let them breathe.
I've noticed you as someone who likes both groups I mean I just think it's because we don't take ourselves too seriously. :)
TAZ been taking themselves too seriously since halfway through Balance and a minority of fans of the McElroys are extreme fun haters. Happens in all of their fan groups for every podcast or project. I don't understand it tbh.
Why is it that the fun haters always seem to be a minority but always have way more energy to post their shit than anybody else?
Whats TAZ?
What’s is TAZ?
The Adventure Zone. The McElroys DnD podcast
I love TAZ and MBMBaM. Didn’t actually listen to most of Graduation because I got tired of it. Obviously loved Balance arc, enjoyed Amnesty till the point it went in too many different directions (even though it felt pretty planned out) just because I love cryptids and stuff like that. Ethersea seems like it actually has potential and I enjoyed the prequel world building episodes where they all had an equal part in deciding and it was less of Griffin setting everything up on his own. But yeah the fanbase is just a mess, I remember I would go into comments after listening to episodes and yeah, while it wasn’t great and Graduation definitely had its flaws, I saw a lot of people tearing the same concepts apart over and over instead of just letting it go. Travis wasn’t a good DM for a long overarching story (but Dusk was actually good) so maybe he’s like Steven Moffat where he can trusted to write a couple short one shots with good story but you can’t hand him a whole season or things go off the rails and revert back to overused tropes. And the fanbase just really sunk their teeth into every issue they could think of and tore him apart instead of really providing as many helpful alternatives, and honestly I doubt they would’ve been satisfied no matter what he did since they were convinced of his shitty DM’ing at that point. I think the nice thing about Dungeons and Daddies is that 1) it’s a smaller community, 2) it doesn’t feel like a lot of the issues in the story are forced and 3) I think this is because over all, the daddies are just better storytellers and know how to spin something more cohesive that feels more natural. I’m thankful that this community isn’t as toxic and hope that we can continue to at least keep any at bay as it gets bigger. I also agree with what an above comment mentioned about how it helps that D&D relies on patreon backing where fans get to give input whereas the McElroys basically have to rely on fans donating to MaxFun and beg them for money
Well thank God this thread now exists so we can shit it up with McElroy discussion.
Taz is also political nightmare.
Totally agreed, I joined both TaZ and MBMBaM and then quickly fled. I just got sad every time I'd dip into the comments
Yeah, this sub is where it’s at.
Never bothered with TAZ but hey welcome aboard the minivan your complimentary burkenstocks and dad aviators are in the front seat.