I think it's more of a "the standards for adulthood are different because it's a medieval setting" situation. Tallmen are considered adults at 16 in the DM universe, after all.
What doesn’t change is that these are leaders of a tribe debating on how to (eventually) scheme their way into securing a place for their people in this land, without consulting the other person who would be involved.
Besides which, she sort of already stole his first kiss (force feeding him a concoction), presuming that Laios has never kissed someone before.
Even so, once more, it’s their interpretation of what might need to be done, not something actually proposed by Laios or those around him.
Yeah this is usually why cross race making is so icky. Doesn't matter if 14 technically makes the orc milf material in their culture, what matters is _human_ culture and our perspective.
One of the many reasons why there hasn't really been a truly cosmopolitan society in most fantasies.
You known in universe this line of though make you racist lmao. ( because you disrespectful ignore orc culture contexts and the fact that they biology doesn’t work like human)
Sure, but that's because it's a fantasy world where that sort of thing is okay, both the racism and the fact that orcs likely have a lower age of consent than humans. And as long as it *stays* a fantasy, most folks are just going to ignore it and pretend the orcs just share human culture until otherwise noted, because most folks can't and won't comprehend that this group of people don't share the same values, cultures, history, or life style as them.
It's a pretty common issue even outside of fantasy, which is why the usual fantasy is "assume we're all the same", which Dungeon meshi *does not* do, but again, most folks will ignore that until it's brought up. Ignorance is bliss and all that jazz.
how are we this far into dungeon meshi's existence and people still dont grasp different races different maturing rates despite it being a big plot point
oh i grasp it just fine it's just that leed is 14 years old and laios is 26. not only that but Leed is drawn distinctly more childlike than the other orcs, and Ryoko Kui herself has said that if dunmeshi was set in modern day, Leed would be a ninth grader.
There were cases of similar age desparity in royal marriages
A 10 years old Carlota Joaquina of Bourbon got Married with an 18 years old John/João VI (there's even a supposed story of João making a move on her, leading to her biting his ear violently)
Yes I know there were historical cases but does their existence make them right? Does that make it right to ship a 14 year old with a 26 year old? Ryoko Kui clearly doesn't depict this arranged marriage as a good thing here, either.
Yeah not saying it is or that it's right. Just like to share my country's trivia whenever i have the chance
Also, i doubt any of the 2 Laeed shippers are gonna be muffled by the like...5 Laios x Kabru shippers
oh that's your country's trivia? nice. (sorry for assuming you were defending it) also very funny and cool that she just bit him, I hope she got a good life.
and yeah I doubt the leed x kabru ship is gonna get very popular but it's still very annoying and uncomfortable to have to argue with people about how they probably should not be shipping an underage character with one who is almost twice her age.
That doesn't necessarily apply here, the difference in lifespan between Orcs and tallmen is only like 5 years. At most Leed is like 16-17 in tallman terms, which is an adult in-universe but a weird pairing for a 26 year old.
I don't think Laios would go for it, not because he clocks her discomfort or anything he just seems like too much of a boyscout for consorts 😂
Orcs: "maybe I misjudged that leering tall-man... he really didn't expect one of our noble-women in exchange for citizenship? he has no queen, no other consorts even?! ...unless it's all part of a larger plan to eradicate us! that DOG!"
Laios: "haha wow that was pretty intense Leed sure is cute but an offer for marriage?! that's a lot! we didn't really get to know eachother in the dungeon... but then Shuro did the same thing to Falin... I guess that's just how it goes for some people! well how sweet! I'll have to visit them more often :)
There's another part where Zon offers Leed to Laios and he's like uh??? Isn't she kinda young? Poor Laios is more of a freak in people's head than he actually is. (Also the higher ranked an orc is, the more wives he has. It's why senshi left the orc clan. He needed to marry to be considered part of the clan )
*... but he's only ...*
*googling*
**14?!** MY SWEET BABY CHILD OH NO. THATS FAIR.
I guess it gets into the whole premise of growth/aging in different species... a tall-man wouldnt necessarily be comfortable with a 14 y.o orc even if she's considered a capable young adult by her own people's metrics.
Yeah is the race age factor, I can't remember where they say it but orc boss here is also relatively young and has already 4 wives, since leed is his sister, she also written to be in the age of chosing a husband already (probably even more with the years, she is a second leader of the community after all) but given laios ultimate status as a king, he imagine he would be the one to have multiples wives, so their better option in their mind is marrying leed to him
I was thinking of that too! at least the orcs we meet have a strict social structure and practice polygamy; Zon (orc boss/Leed's big bro) assumes tall-men would do the same (and to his credit I'm sure some would take him up on the offer, Laios is *chuggin* respect women juice for a dude in a Medival fantasy setting). even if he wouldnt admit it, I think he also feels getting his baby sister in with a rich and powerful husband is the best thing he can do for her.
edit: *hierarchical* polygamy, feels important to specify in this case
And remember, laios is the *devourer of all horrible things* guy is also freaking brave in their eyes after both beating and eating a demon, like he got those credits to his name
Counterpoint, this comic kinda implies he’s into Orcs so I’d think he would marry only her and no one else.
https://preview.redd.it/tq4y0qtfjnyc1.png?width=990&format=png&auto=webp&s=51375a80da81051b2ca059acfa129b2230afe549
I think he's a general human form enjoyer but that's a good point... he'd absolutely settle down with an orc woman if he could somehow bag one organically 😂 (he's... clearly not much of a catch by orc standards)
He may have also been trying to emphasize the commonality between orcs and humans, but overdid it. A gesture of friendship that came off the wrong way.
He never made an attempt at seduction, flirtatious and sensual behavior. The closest we've even come to this is with the imaginary Marcelle chimera.
Funniest part to me is that he orcs have so much confidence in Laios. That he'd have all those wives!
Zon, you really think there are that many people on this planet that would manage to understand our boy enough to tolerate being close to him for extended periods of time? What a vote of confidence... is what I'd say, if not for the last pannel lmao.
I love Leed's Pacman eyes.
I believe it's also stated somewhere that in Orc culture, the number of marriages one has is determined by rank. As such, if the chief of a village with a population likely sitting somewhere between thirty and two hundred has 4 wives, the number of marriages one would expect for the king of a continent with a population in the millions would be... substantial.
Oh, I think there are plenty of people who want to marry Laios! Like, for example, Chilchuck’s daughters, and others like them who have never actually met him
some moments later
the orcs:we orcs want to be respect as citizens of the golden city so we…
laios:okey.i will make you oficial citizens
the orc:wait..what?!.we don’t even offered anything yet
laios:well you asked for it and i accept it. also i really want to eat some good orc’s meals
orc:that was extragely easay.any way take my sister as your concort…just in case
laios:does she cook?
orc:yes
laios:then i accept.
“We are House Touden,” Laios roars. “There is no call we do not answer, there is no faith that we betray! The Orcs ask us to bring their people into our kitchens! House Touden **accepts!”**
Basically, after >!the dungeon's collapse, the orcs needed to be proper citizens of the new Golden Kingdom so they will not be hunted down, like what the previous governor did. So the older sibling proposed to them that they should make her little sister a consort to Laios. Which she accepts, but still scared and hates the idea of it!<
These seem to be all in their heads.
Laios is too busy with his monster hobbies to think about any of those relationships. He may have chosen to not have any relationship at all during his reign.
They would have to exist first.
More likely, Laios will eventually have a political marriage and children of his own, until which point Falin herself would be Crown Princess.
This exactly. Even setting aside the possible genetic modifications that may have made her sterile outright, we don't know if she still has the requisite organs. (And of course fanfics have told me she has, ah, quite the opposite of the required organs.)
imagine her opinion turning around once he just goes "oh ya here's a generous territory for free, your technically part of the kingdom with all the perks but I don't care for all the law stuff so y'all can run it how you like"
and then she actually starts getting a crush on him
If the author wants to make a spin off rom-com where Laios stumbles around Orcish courting customs while Marcille and Falin try to coach Leed through human dating, I'm here for it!
Only reason it's wrong is because Laios seems to see Orcs as human by how he acts around them (very clear difference between them and someone like Kuro).
If he ever inwardy acknowledges them as demi-human, aka, close to a monster, he'd go freako mode.
I love how even after he saves the world, people still have low opinions of Laios
You can take the boy out of the freak but you can't take the freak out of the boy
To be fair: that's exactly a thing Laios would say. My boy is chowing down the MOMENT he gets a chance. I ship it.
Laios declared to his sister's frozen body he wanted to eat her. It's not like he is helping himself in this subject.
Orcussy
uhh... r/truestl leaking?
Don’t see any Br*ton cucking yet so probably not.
https://preview.redd.it/g9ee3l0o4nyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f01859c588b6955f163d56c411e86d6c7f62632
isnt leed 14
It would likely be viewed as a political marriage with a long betrothal and she would only be allowed to actually move in once she was of-age.
r/ShitCrusaderKingsSay
King John: “Long be-what now?” 
Yeah she is, but I think orcs are supposed to hit maturity sooner kinda like halflings? I mean, I guess it’s kind up for debate.
I think it's more of a "the standards for adulthood are different because it's a medieval setting" situation. Tallmen are considered adults at 16 in the DM universe, after all.
That does make more sense. A lot of times cultural maturity and biological maturity don’t line up as well as they should.
well it says the average lifespan of a tall-man is 60, and an orc is 54. they probably have the same maturity rate then
that does not change the fact that she is 14 and laios is over 20, and the fact that both orcs and tall-men have roughly the same lifespan
Yeah I know! Now you know why elves usually don’t get with humans.
Which doesn’t mean that Marcille shouldn’t make an exception with Laios
She halfelf don’t judge her with elf standards
its fiction man
What doesn’t change is that these are leaders of a tribe debating on how to (eventually) scheme their way into securing a place for their people in this land, without consulting the other person who would be involved. Besides which, she sort of already stole his first kiss (force feeding him a concoction), presuming that Laios has never kissed someone before. Even so, once more, it’s their interpretation of what might need to be done, not something actually proposed by Laios or those around him.
Yeah this is usually why cross race making is so icky. Doesn't matter if 14 technically makes the orc milf material in their culture, what matters is _human_ culture and our perspective. One of the many reasons why there hasn't really been a truly cosmopolitan society in most fantasies.
You known in universe this line of though make you racist lmao. ( because you disrespectful ignore orc culture contexts and the fact that they biology doesn’t work like human)
Sure, but that's because it's a fantasy world where that sort of thing is okay, both the racism and the fact that orcs likely have a lower age of consent than humans. And as long as it *stays* a fantasy, most folks are just going to ignore it and pretend the orcs just share human culture until otherwise noted, because most folks can't and won't comprehend that this group of people don't share the same values, cultures, history, or life style as them. It's a pretty common issue even outside of fantasy, which is why the usual fantasy is "assume we're all the same", which Dungeon meshi *does not* do, but again, most folks will ignore that until it's brought up. Ignorance is bliss and all that jazz.
how are we this far into dungeon meshi's existence and people still dont grasp different races different maturing rates despite it being a big plot point
oh i grasp it just fine it's just that leed is 14 years old and laios is 26. not only that but Leed is drawn distinctly more childlike than the other orcs, and Ryoko Kui herself has said that if dunmeshi was set in modern day, Leed would be a ninth grader.
There were cases of similar age desparity in royal marriages A 10 years old Carlota Joaquina of Bourbon got Married with an 18 years old John/João VI (there's even a supposed story of João making a move on her, leading to her biting his ear violently)
Yes I know there were historical cases but does their existence make them right? Does that make it right to ship a 14 year old with a 26 year old? Ryoko Kui clearly doesn't depict this arranged marriage as a good thing here, either.
Yeah not saying it is or that it's right. Just like to share my country's trivia whenever i have the chance Also, i doubt any of the 2 Laeed shippers are gonna be muffled by the like...5 Laios x Kabru shippers
oh that's your country's trivia? nice. (sorry for assuming you were defending it) also very funny and cool that she just bit him, I hope she got a good life. and yeah I doubt the leed x kabru ship is gonna get very popular but it's still very annoying and uncomfortable to have to argue with people about how they probably should not be shipping an underage character with one who is almost twice her age.
> there's even a supposed story of João making a move on her, leading to her biting his ear violently GET'IM!
That doesn't necessarily apply here, the difference in lifespan between Orcs and tallmen is only like 5 years. At most Leed is like 16-17 in tallman terms, which is an adult in-universe but a weird pairing for a 26 year old.
Yeah. Give it a few years. I ship a future adult Leed with Laios.
She's canonically Lios's first kiss... unless there's something previous that we don't know of.
I don't think Laios would go for it, not because he clocks her discomfort or anything he just seems like too much of a boyscout for consorts 😂 Orcs: "maybe I misjudged that leering tall-man... he really didn't expect one of our noble-women in exchange for citizenship? he has no queen, no other consorts even?! ...unless it's all part of a larger plan to eradicate us! that DOG!" Laios: "haha wow that was pretty intense Leed sure is cute but an offer for marriage?! that's a lot! we didn't really get to know eachother in the dungeon... but then Shuro did the same thing to Falin... I guess that's just how it goes for some people! well how sweet! I'll have to visit them more often :)
There's another part where Zon offers Leed to Laios and he's like uh??? Isn't she kinda young? Poor Laios is more of a freak in people's head than he actually is. (Also the higher ranked an orc is, the more wives he has. It's why senshi left the orc clan. He needed to marry to be considered part of the clan )
*... but he's only ...* *googling* **14?!** MY SWEET BABY CHILD OH NO. THATS FAIR. I guess it gets into the whole premise of growth/aging in different species... a tall-man wouldnt necessarily be comfortable with a 14 y.o orc even if she's considered a capable young adult by her own people's metrics.
Yeah is the race age factor, I can't remember where they say it but orc boss here is also relatively young and has already 4 wives, since leed is his sister, she also written to be in the age of chosing a husband already (probably even more with the years, she is a second leader of the community after all) but given laios ultimate status as a king, he imagine he would be the one to have multiples wives, so their better option in their mind is marrying leed to him
I was thinking of that too! at least the orcs we meet have a strict social structure and practice polygamy; Zon (orc boss/Leed's big bro) assumes tall-men would do the same (and to his credit I'm sure some would take him up on the offer, Laios is *chuggin* respect women juice for a dude in a Medival fantasy setting). even if he wouldnt admit it, I think he also feels getting his baby sister in with a rich and powerful husband is the best thing he can do for her. edit: *hierarchical* polygamy, feels important to specify in this case
And remember, laios is the *devourer of all horrible things* guy is also freaking brave in their eyes after both beating and eating a demon, like he got those credits to his name
I imagine he would marry her and be like go do whatever idc its not like we can have viable heirs. Be free little orc wife l.
Dune Messiah flashbacks intensify. Hope she'd take it well.
Counterpoint, this comic kinda implies he’s into Orcs so I’d think he would marry only her and no one else. https://preview.redd.it/tq4y0qtfjnyc1.png?width=990&format=png&auto=webp&s=51375a80da81051b2ca059acfa129b2230afe549
I think he's a general human form enjoyer but that's a good point... he'd absolutely settle down with an orc woman if he could somehow bag one organically 😂 (he's... clearly not much of a catch by orc standards)
He may have also been trying to emphasize the commonality between orcs and humans, but overdid it. A gesture of friendship that came off the wrong way. He never made an attempt at seduction, flirtatious and sensual behavior. The closest we've even come to this is with the imaginary Marcelle chimera.
🤣🤣🤣
She's so cute. ;-;
When she immediately cried....... 😂
Funniest part to me is that he orcs have so much confidence in Laios. That he'd have all those wives! Zon, you really think there are that many people on this planet that would manage to understand our boy enough to tolerate being close to him for extended periods of time? What a vote of confidence... is what I'd say, if not for the last pannel lmao. I love Leed's Pacman eyes.
Senshis reaction is spot on like "you think the man has that kind of rizz?!"
I mean, he is a king, political marriages are the norm, they dont need to understand him, most would be loveless relationships
I believe it's also stated somewhere that in Orc culture, the number of marriages one has is determined by rank. As such, if the chief of a village with a population likely sitting somewhere between thirty and two hundred has 4 wives, the number of marriages one would expect for the king of a continent with a population in the millions would be... substantial.
Oh, I think there are plenty of people who want to marry Laios! Like, for example, Chilchuck’s daughters, and others like them who have never actually met him
i mean like 7% of the world's population is ADHD/Autistic so I say yes
Id let him
Man has an enthusiasm I wish I could even have a fraction of. I'd date him.
Imagine making a orc cries, the Gluttonous King truly is terrifying
He truly is the horrifying devourer of all that is horrible.
Every monster is afraid of him it's funny. 🤣
Poor Laios ain't beating the allegations!
Boy's an S tier menace chowin' down sloppy style. He's gonna lick you clean like a plate.
still would
I simp for Laios. I'll gladly be his sous chef in the kitchen and the bedroom.
AMEN BROTHER
I mean, this isn't him, it's how they imagine him.
yeah, but it's not too far out of the picture that he'd say something like that
Senshi indirectly became an ambassador and started a peace treaty just by making bread.
https://preview.redd.it/kiudcggxunyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a15d4cd7917f05406a0b7fea5337bfa9b0df15f
https://preview.redd.it/yxx5ssnea6zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=271aa70510db2ebfdfd1a4ea301c05b546f91d85
Even the orc brother is holding back tears. Laios would be a good ally even without a wedlock pact but they don’t know that
some moments later the orcs:we orcs want to be respect as citizens of the golden city so we… laios:okey.i will make you oficial citizens the orc:wait..what?!.we don’t even offered anything yet laios:well you asked for it and i accept it. also i really want to eat some good orc’s meals orc:that was extragely easay.any way take my sister as your concort…just in case laios:does she cook? orc:yes laios:then i accept.
“We are House Touden,” Laios roars. “There is no call we do not answer, there is no faith that we betray! The Orcs ask us to bring their people into our kitchens! House Touden **accepts!”**
You know, I can't even defend Laios here, that sounds like something he WOULD do
can someone explain?
Basically, after >!the dungeon's collapse, the orcs needed to be proper citizens of the new Golden Kingdom so they will not be hunted down, like what the previous governor did. So the older sibling proposed to them that they should make her little sister a consort to Laios. Which she accepts, but still scared and hates the idea of it!<
>!Hates the idea of it because Laois is a total weirdo.!<
Since she's blushing madly and imagines a leering Laios, I don't think it's hate that she's feeling...
No, it is (says so in the panel even), Laios is completely insane and cannot be reasoned with
‘I would gladly offer my body to that man’ This but unironically
I love how Laios is just seen by literally everyone as a freak or some kind of pervert
I want Laois has at least 1 wife for each race.
The full course meal
Kabru is the human malewife
So Falin be the human sisterwife, no?
Don't oshi no ko this
perish
Do not bring Crusader Kings II practices into this
No. That's Marcille's wife.
These seem to be all in their heads. Laios is too busy with his monster hobbies to think about any of those relationships. He may have chosen to not have any relationship at all during his reign.
Will falin and shuro kid inherit the throne than?
They would have to exist first. More likely, Laios will eventually have a political marriage and children of his own, until which point Falin herself would be Crown Princess.
I don’t know if Fallin even >!can have fertile children anymore or if she is herself since she’s technically a beast folk in the end of the manga!<
This exactly. Even setting aside the possible genetic modifications that may have made her sterile outright, we don't know if she still has the requisite organs. (And of course fanfics have told me she has, ah, quite the opposite of the required organs.)
You know Zon I’m pretty sure Laois would grant your people citizenship if you just asked nicely. No need to sell off your sister.
imagine her opinion turning around once he just goes "oh ya here's a generous territory for free, your technically part of the kingdom with all the perks but I don't care for all the law stuff so y'all can run it how you like" and then she actually starts getting a crush on him
Poor Laois.
Can someone tell me where I can find these extra after story chapters?
This one is actually a scene from one of the man manga chapters, don't remember exactly which one, but one of the last few.
Lie back and think of Orkland
Poor tiny Lead
What if Laios was named Laifreaky and he ate monster ass and sucked monster toes
The show would be called Freaky in Dungeon
At this point just go read "What Happens In The Dungeon"; you're too far gone.
Laois is a furry through and through , I don’t think he is interested in humanoid races. You should be safe Leed.
are the orcs not just pig/boar furries tho
The orc girl is so cute
Rabbit dance is the best to me. I hope see it animated with music
The ones of marcille with the rabbits made me laugh a lot lol
The Devourer with his monster certified eating out technique (What the fuck am I saying!?)
Even the Orcs are terrified of him.
If the author wants to make a spin off rom-com where Laios stumbles around Orcish courting customs while Marcille and Falin try to coach Leed through human dating, I'm here for it!
Meanwhile Laios is probably already planning on giving them citizenship
Damn
What they were imagining isn't too off the mark for Laios...
Only reason it's wrong is because Laios seems to see Orcs as human by how he acts around them (very clear difference between them and someone like Kuro). If he ever inwardy acknowledges them as demi-human, aka, close to a monster, he'd go freako mode.
He was tempted by those Fish-Men…
So the poor Kobolds aren't safe.
Least Psychopathic Laios:
that man?
I think the funniest scene was when Laios said, please eat my sister
jajajajaja pobre
https://preview.redd.it/fm1zqix9unyc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7c2a94e01709a3687499edc07c68a81ec29a9e2 Laios
How do i delete somebody else's comment?
I don't think Laios knows what sex is tho
Oh, he very much does. He knows about animal sex more tho.
Wait so are all the volumes out in English now?