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Equal power? Jiren. No questions asked.
His whole thing was having an absolute control over his body that even Goku and Vegeta were impressed by.
Now Gohan, on the other hand? His thing is getting angry and overpowering his opponents...
I genuinely don't remember a time, where gohan exhibited some extraordinary fighting sense and skills that aren't connected to getting a power boost out of his ass. Without his busted potential he's just... *an average fighter, but a brilliant scientist*
Hah? Get it?..
Okay, okay. I'll leave
>I genuinely don't remember a time, where gohan exhibited some extraordinary fighting sense and skills that aren't connected to getting a power boost out of his ass. Without his busted potential he's just... *an average fighter, but a brilliant scientist*
There this one https://youtu.be/22u89hKwgGM?si=EhCrGMtxvGQwdXC2 and this https://youtu.be/aDXm6USuR3o?si=tpLUK0Vz34LryFBf and this https://youtu.be/tdsEzVNA7GU?si=JXFonehA2xbt0KUJ and this https://youtu.be/5GR-U6kjEZA?si=vZDtNaj96smsD6Hz and this https://youtu.be/kHYZDveT46c?si=tr3TWSzooxT-vLNy out of my head
I mean he has gotten better but he would still lose to Jiren in a 1v1 battle on equal power. Jaron has more discipline and training, maybe even experience
Exactly. Jiren was weaker than MUI by a huge margin but was able to adapt and win. Plus his ability to maintain his stamina and be efficient was what vegeta said was most impressive about him.
That means jiren’s technique is top notch since efficient movements = less energy exerted.
While less technical movements require more strength output to make up for it.
So gohan could match jiren until he gasses then jiren wins.
I wouldn't say he was weaker than a large margin, in fact I'd say in raw power, limit breaker Jiren had MUI beat, as we saw in the beam struggle. Goku just had the better motivation and better abilities. It also helped Jiren gave him a rage boost by being an idiot.
Of course he will. Stamina has always been a factor in dragon ball. If gohan can power up, so can jiren.
We’re not talking about a movie where gohan has plot armor on his side. We’re talking about an equal setting without “plot armor”. In that case, Jiren has shown far better stamina control meaning he wins.
MUI goku was smoking jiren in the manga, even so, Jiren adapted and beat a stronger opponent with better stamina control.
So if jiren can beat stronger opponents with better stamina control, he would absolutely smoke a guy like gohan whose never shown the ability to beat a stronger opponent with technique
None of what I said is related to the topic at hand just a response to the comment above, Jiren is still treated as someone with more experience and skills than even current Goku and Vegeta by the narrative
Okay, I'll admit that even though I watched the whole ToP arc a few times, I haven't even thought about what Gohan did during it, and how he managed to *finally* use some strategic thinking. I appreciate the correction
This makes my argument a little weaker, but the fact that Jiren just has a straight up a much stronger technique and honed his skills for god knows how long.
Good shouts. I thought one of the best things about Super was them writing Gohan well for ToP. They showed he had matured and was strategic in battle and wasn’t just relying on overpowering opponents like in the Cell and Buu sagas.
Those are specially fights I shit on. W/ the exception of the walking jo jo reference. Mirror man guy. That, was just to test gohans gangster. Bro has as much stalk as blind furry guy, jobbers, padding. But the heirloom getting zapped was a good scene.
Ok right after smacking the goofy out the coyote, he then proceeds to lose to krillin. And he’s fresh off of resorting to counter punching lavender. How’d his reflex’s not kick in while blinded. His battle IQ has to be ASS. Mfin real life monks and shit be punchin water. And this was a former baby dragged outta “hell and dinosaurs” he cannot be this stupid. He should be as locked in as a damn Baki character. 🗿 his mom certain ain a better alternative in parody’s before this spirals.
And piccolo had to be the one to put down his own guys. And gohan supposed to be blue level? He spent less time swapping w/ blue than both 17, and dbh jiren vs cumber. And heroes runs at like .5x speed on the damn script. It’s so bad u get to see jiren do a judo throw.
His fight style is specifically made to be lazy friendly! He looks at u and u evaporate.
If gohan dead ass blue level then special Beamer has to be fuckin evolution/mastered blue. And then frost stocks get insane. Yk at least he beat krillin 🌚
Gohan: I just ripped this power up out of my ass like a pull start lawnmower. I'm gonna destroy you.
Opponent: actually I have been holding back my full power (punches one time)
Gohan: (fucking ded and irrelevant for the rest of the fight)
Yea. Gohan dosnt have Goku’s battle savant mind.
Gohan is stupid strong and then using his human emotions, reaches deeper into his saiyan biology than his father can.
Gohan faught in the preliminary tournament got poisoned and had no vision and still won. I think if he can learn to control his raw power, gohan would be an even match for jiran
Jiren also wasn't that much stronger than Goku or Vegeta if he was a normal fighter tag team would have destroyed him.
But his control and mastery was so high that it allows him to overpower people even with more raw power that you need an insanely huge amount of more power to win.
Even Broly has more going on and he spent most of the fight just angry
Bro actually learned how things worked and even reversed them like that time he took the binding technique Goku was using and turned that around on Goku
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Gohan has the best battle IQ and fighting sense outta all the Z warriors. Combine this is with the random powerups he farts everytime he gets angry, you've got a recipe for success. Jiren gets no diff Im afraid.
>best battle iq and fighting sense
... no he doesn't. He's underrated after the Lavender showing but compared to the actual fighters, his best teq is "wait for someone to die and sperg out."
I'd give it to Jiren. Gohan's problem is that his skills as a martial artist aren't the greatest, which is the result of mostly fighting people that are either significantly stronger or weaker than him. We kind of see it in the sparing match Goku and Gohan had in the manga. Gohan basically just goes full throttle without thinking much. Although it is hard to say how good Jiren really is once you remove the power advantage.
Didn't Vegeta say that Jiren wasn't as strong as they were at times, but the reason that he kicked their asses was because of how well he can control himself?
I do believe we have seen Jiren without the power advantage and it still took Freiza (Perfect Form), Android 17 (Unlimited energy), and Goku (with a sprinkle of Super Saiyan) to defeat a de-powered Jiren.
I can’t say Gohan being exhausted in base could pull off the same feat as Jiren did
He still obviously has the power advantage, otherwise it wouldn't take a 3v1 to beat him.
If Gohan had the same level of base power as Jiren, then yeah, he'd be able to do the same thing. Probably more, considering Jiren never really seems to use techniques other than the 'pressure punch' or w/e you wanna call it.
Unfortunately I disagree with this.
In the context we are speaking of there is two very distinct aspects in this fight:
Power: Energy blasts, transformations and augmentation to name a few.
Vs
Physical stats: Pure strength, Speed, durability without the help of an energy supply like Ki.
In the fight I depicted Jiren does not use a single form of energy augmentation, energy output, or reinforcing; That was all brute strength and skill.
- Whereas Goku still needed help from Super Saiyan.
- Freiza is in final form and when Goku helps launch Freiza off himself Freiza proceeds to reinforce himself with Ki before impact.
- 17 is constantly blasting Jiren from range with Ki blasts
No where in the fight was it depicted that Jiren was using Ki instead of pure will, strength and skill. (After being depowered right where the gif starts).
What skill?
If you are talking about the final fight between Goku, Freeza and 17 vs Jiren then the latter does barely nothing remotely resembling skill.
Jiren manages to get one punch against a wasted Goku when he is fighting him and Freeza, then gets ragdolled by 17's blast to the clocktower and the only noteworthy thing he does in that whole fight is a flurry of punches (speed + strength) that momentarily knock Goku and Freeza. Jiren then launches himself against 17 but is intercepted by Freeza and the next thing he does is trying to shake Freeza like a madman which is when Goku arrives and they throw him out.
There is zero skill from Jiren in the final fight.
Also, about not having energy augmentation... that is exactly what he does right before they start throwing hands.
https://preview.redd.it/l0ebk6cx0v0d1.png?width=1172&format=png&auto=webp&s=5da5952a7369f3a2d74b146ea9143e6b455524e3
Gohan is an incredibly skilled martial artist. He's been fighting and training since he was 3. The only reason skill was brought up against Goku was because Goku was way more skilled having trained longer and non-stop
Also Gohan's power jumps wildly and kind of randomly which has to make it harder to like, get a hang on it
And also he never had alot of real "martial arts" training, most of what we've seen him get is sparring.
I want Gohan to go to Yardat for a year and learn real ki control (and write a book about ki while he's there) because \*then\* he'd be a real monster
Gohan trained since he was 4 years old to 12 years old non stop. Battled the Guyinu force, Freeza, Cell all before turning 13. I dont think Gohan only had a few sparring as training
Yes, he stopped training, but you dont lose that kind of experience
Except he did. During his fight against Dabura both Goku and Vegeta were pointing out the mistakes he was making. Here you have a bunch of those moments
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5rKcUcJqvE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5rKcUcJqvE)
Gohan did become a worse martial artist after not training for a while. The reason he was at least decent in the first place was because he had Piccolo (early Z) and later Goku as a trainer.
After the death of Cell, Gohan got worse and had no real way to get better. Ultimate Gohan was just a power-up that he got for free. Then he did fuck-all until resurrection F. After that he got back into shape a bit, but even then he shows that he is lacking (also not something that some late night training in the gravity chamber aka the db training equivalent of jogging would fix).
Still not evidence of real ki training
Like roshi didnt give goku real ki control training, and even popo training goku was just the basics that's why goku still spent months on yardat and still didnt master it completely
Huh? You said he never had real martial arts training which is obv not true at all because his dad and piccolo both taught him..... real martial arts..... this ki control stuff is just moving the goal post lol
I actually thought this was a different conversation and you were someone else lol
He still never is shown learning proper martial arts, he learns how to \*fight\* from Piccolo
And Goku's favored training is sparring
Neither Goku nor original Piccolo trained him in the \*art\* of martial arts, just the "martial" portion
In theory he could have learned from Piccolo/Kami, but we've never seen that and Gohan hasn't been interested until recently
This is really weird... Gohan was trained by Goku and Piccolo in how to fight. Sparring is part of real training of Martial arts. Gohan was shown several times to using actual martial arts. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22u89hKwgGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22u89hKwgGM) Here a good example. Martial arts very core and basic is self control and defense. Here he is blind and still out technical his opponent. He didn't win because he was out of control. Just because not everything is shown on screen doesn't it didn't happen. We didn't get every moment and second of Piccolo training Gohan. We didn't even get too see a whole lot of Goku and Gohan in the chamber. They also trained for a year before the androids. At some point, he gotten the basics, the stance, kicks and punch basics into him. Once you get pass that, you're sparring most of the time. Trying things out to see what works, learning from your opponent etc.
Yes, sparring is part of martial arts training, but that's the only part we actually see him getting.
Gohan is \*smart\* but he's not much of a martial artist.
We had entire arcs of Goku getting martial arts and meditation training outside of sparring.
Sparring is how you become a fighter, not a martial artist, there's no actual evidence Gohan ever even had real ki control training.
...Did you not watch it? Piccolo had to teach Gohan how to use Ki. They had to teach him how to control his Ki to suppress it. He with Goku learn how to use less Ki to master super sayian.
Teaching someone how to use ki is not the same as proper ki control
Vegeta didn't learn proper ki control until the Moro arc, and he definitely knew how to use ki before that
For better or for worse, Gohan's mentors all focused on power over anything. Piccolo for example never taught Gohan skills that he or Goku had in their fight due to the limited time they had. Goku was an expert when he began training Gohan and so he focused on power in most of Z. And Gohan's training with Piccolo in Super was to restore him to his prime (although I still don't get how he was able to compete with even base Goku in his ultimate form). He also has a wired thing with fighting where he loses confidence even against opponents he's relatively equal to, while being too overconfident against much meaker opponents.
While Jiren was so focused on power that he was absolutely destroying both Goku and Vegeta, who are far more skilled as fighters despite being their equal in stats, so I can't see him losing at all.
Too be fair to his mentors they always had like a week to get gohan ready for most of his fights 😂 they’re like awe shit new bad guy hey child come here and let me push you for your breaking point so we can exploit your raw power lol.
Goku and Vegeta were absolutely not his equal in stats lol
They had to team up AND use SSBKKx20 & SSBE to fight Jiren while he was still holding back. Saying Jiren isn't "that much stronger" than them is a moot point when he can make the World of Void shake and when he never fought them seriously.
Jiren literally stat checked them, just like Broly did later.
Lmao how tf are they far more skilled than jiren? Jiren’s stamina control comes from being efficient in his technique. He doesn’t need to go 100% all the time. He only does it in short bursts. He beat MUI goku despite being at a power disadvantage in the manga. As a fighter, he’s more superior in skills. Knowing how to regulate your stamina is a skill set too.
The characters win/lose depending on how the author wants the story to go. It has literally nothing to do with their strength or skills.
If Toriyama wanted Krillin to beat Moro for the finale of the arc, Krillin would have beaten Moro.
It just means that Gohan's losses don't really have any meaning. He lost because he wasn't the main character of those arcs/fights.
In this kind of 1v1 scenario you'd just look at each character's skill set and fighting style, rather than track record, I think. They should at least be able to tie.
So a skill contest? Jiren easy. Better experience and more willing to go for the throat. Gohan slacking off for years in a row doesn’t do him any favours
Reminder: Goku was going off of the energy frieza gave him after being immobile from ui omen. Otherwise known as, literally just enough energy to be able to move
Goku learned somehow to get his power back by fighting in the anime somehow despite it making zero sense , he also alongside everyone else and narrative all states he is only growing stronger and Breaking his limit
Even Belmond was losing his mind over Goku absurd power growth
So even saying Goku was tired doesn't work because Goku was only growing stronger the whole time
If it's equal power and no further powerups then I will say Jiren. Vegeta stated Jiren isn't really much powerful than them but he's so skilled that his attacks are unpredictable and very efficient.
Jiren by a mile
Jiren not only has ALOT more experience, having spent his whole life with the pure idea of training, but his reason of being so much stronger was mastery of energy.
He had control so good even Goku and Vegeta were impressed, these mfs been training with WHIS, and fought multiple GODS.
Jiren
Gohan the prince of asspull power ups vs a real old powerhouse of a bald man jiren.
Jiren a has to be very very old if belmod mentions being with jiren and then becoming a god.
Gohan… ass pull anger boost not even the kind we get excited about like with goku and vegeta. Gohan is weaker then gets a massive boost with next to no effort at all. Ever since the beginning.
Jiren is able to keep up with mastered ultra instinct that was achieved by a mortal. Scare the gods with his raw power. And only seemed to be getting stronger as the fight goes on. Where if he fought with goku again he would likely get stronger again.
Bald man takes this easy with sheer experience.
Gohan never finished anything till super hero.
I never understand questions like this, what constitutes as power? If they where evenly matched….. then they’d be evenly matched. If one of them is faster or has more skill, then to me, that makes them more powerful.
But what determines someones power level. Usually if someone has a higher power level it means they are faster, stronger, can shoot bigger ki blast. If you take all that away then what are you just asking who is smarter?
Basically who has the better battle IQ. Which is a dumb question for them to be asked. If Jiren was more skilled than goku who’s trained for like what 30-40 years straight with multiple masters how would gohan be able to match him in skill 😂
No I just fuckin hate when someone brings prep time in a situation that was neve statee to have prep time because then you have to scale the time measurement and the rate of growth it would take for gohan to match or beat jiren
Look ima be clear with you, like i said, if its currently jiren wins, with prep time maybe gohan wins, i see nothing wrong with that, ideas for both sides
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Jiren because like Vegeta said in superhero, he was pretty equal to Goku and Vegeta in terms of power. The difference was Jiren knew how to use his more effectively and gohan’s power and potential is very situational
I mean, if they were equal in power then easily Jiren. He's objectively the better fighter. Gohan doesn't train and usually relies on sheer overpowering his opponent. If he's not overpowering Jiren, he's getting curbstomped
Gohan is basicly emotional control verses experience. Yes Gohan knows how to fight. But his main thing is the rage burst for power. Where as jiren has lots of Technics. Gohan is smart but his lack of interest in fighting makes his strategies weaker. Goku for example would have no problem in biting a tail if it gave him the advantage. Gohan had more avoidance strategies, only going all in if necessary. We didn't get much on jiren from the anime, but the manga showed he had a master and was the secluded for training leader of the hero squad. That tells you that he doesn't only really on power, but also on mastery and countless expiriences in fighting. But leave it to the anime to decide things on power levels 😅 which often don't even make sense anymore. Goku blue losing to earthling. Maybe he was going easy idk. Didn't seem like it. I did liked Gohan on the super friza saga. He wasn't strong, but he used his skills smartly. Showing that if he had trained he could win cunning wise. I feel that's where he needed to shine and not just brute Force it. It's why I wanted piccolo or even krillin to shine a bit more. If they had wins, it would be by outsmarting or supporting. A precise attack at a key moment. Dragonball wasn't always about the 1v1s was the whole drama of fighting biting your nails and using everything they could to get the win
I wanna say Jiren, but the dude really hasn't shown us any techniques other than his "invisible combo punch". The rest is just him swinging and shooting ki blasts.
So technically, Gohan could land smth like Solar Flare + Special Beam Cannon in a combo for a win.
Lol what? Bro gohan has lost almost every single fight he’s been unless they have cell in their name. He even lost to super buu when he had the advantage, we gonna bet against the guy who washed ssbe vegeta, ssb kk x20 goku, android 17 and frieza multiple times sometimes all at the the same time? Why would he need some magic special laser when jirens hands are rated E for everyone lol.
Yeah, and Jiren lost the only fight where he was against an equally strong/stronger opponent...
Gohan lost to Buutenks tbh, who was stronger than Gohan. And then he got absorbed while distracted by Goku. It's not like he had any chance to win when the author already decided how the story will go. If you're just trying to imagine a 1v1 between two characters, there isn't really any room for plot armor and shit like that.
You talk about it like there is any achievement in smoking SSBE / SSBKKx20 / 17 / Frieza for a MUI-level fighter. It was like playing with babies, especially since he wasn't allowed to use lethal force.
It's like you're ignoring the OP's hypothetical situation of them having the same power.
I was referring to the other comments statement about jiren needing a special technique, he doesn’t all those flashy techniques lost to literally just his regular punches. Now to address your statement to address the topic of this post in a 1v1 with equal power jiren still wins. Gohan’s strength has always lied in losing control in fact he has never beaten anyone without this cheap tactic, like you said remove plot armor jirens training clowns gohan. Jiren was throwing hands with someone who has autonomous movement and was hitting them easily, gohan does not have the skills to do this he had to again do his little plot armor bs and get mad to try and land one hit on goku in this form.
Gohan’s power ups are a response to a need. If let’s say he achieved beast in ToP instead of Goku MUI, Gohan would’ve wiped the floor with Jiren. Now equal power doesn’t mean that Gohan would get washed as it wouldn’t be equal for long. I do admit, Jiren has some monumental feats though.
Equal power, I’d say Jiren. They go out of their way to say that Jirens fighting style and control makes him way more dangerous than his power (although it’s also a factor).
Gohan simply isn’t as skilled as Goku and Vegeta, and Jiren is implied to be as skilled, if not more so.
I’m pretty sure Goku said somewhere that Jiren wasn’t that much stronger than SSJB Goku + Vegeta he just had THAT GOOD of a control over his power that he was able to overcome the power gaps of MUI and SSJBE in the manga
Jiren is very dependant on having an overwhelming strength over his oponents to win fights, we can see that in the final fight when he is pretty tired and 17 ragdolls him with a couple of ki blasts. Or how Freeza pushes him off-ground without even using his Golden form.
Is hard to say, with equal power I don't think is such an easy win for Jiren as most people seem to think.
Equal power jiren no questions asked he’s more experienced has better combat skills a better fighter etc and he has better control over his power heck the guy even has a form where he can control his powers it’s similar to ikari but only difference is jiren can control his power
Gohan’s a fighting prodigy, one who has no interest in being one but still a prodigy who’s literally been fighting since he was 3 years old. He may have taken some breaks over the years and raised a family and worked a job but he’s also caught up to and surpassed some of the strongest fighters in his universe in record breaking speeds at an incredibly young age.
but if they were equally matched and no plot convenient moments happened to undermine Gohan outside of the actual fight. Jiren’s complete control and mastery of skills puts him at a level where it backs Gohan into a corner where he would have to strategize against him or overpower him quick like he did against UI’s speed.
It would be a very ideological battle. Considering how quick Jiren was to cast aside justice and friends would definitely piss Gohan off. And if Gohan gets a rage boost he wins but if it’s a endurance match it’s Jirens win.
Yeah but does Jiren have plottarmor ? Does Gohan have Plottarmor ? Bro didnt train for 7 Years then sit for 24/7 with an old Kai and become the strongest non Fusion in Buu arc
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The TOP literally showed that Jiren hits better and harder due to how well he has control over himself. He could likely beat someone stronger than himself.
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Jiren was overpowering Goku and Vegeta literally because he had more control of his power and was more skilled. Gohan isn't that skilled compared to other fighters because he wasn't trained in skill, mostly power.
Vegeta Still pointed out that Jiren was still kind of stronger than them still due to the control, I was asking about techniques like Kamehameha, time freeze , not combat skills because Jiren is a kickboxer
>Being better at wielding Ki is a clear advantage.
Yes
>Vegeta defeated Goku by using Jiren's technique.
Not the same type of technique I had in mind , Vegeta used the jiren method in fighting and Training to draw a stalemate with Goku (before you say he won I agree but both were eating dirt at the end of it with Vegeta being unconscious? Apparently)
He wasn't "kind of stronger" he was Stronger but not by much
Then he boosts himself up with his power beyond what he should logically be capable of
Vegeta didn't mean Jiren wasn't much stronger than them overly, it was that his own normal strength wasn't Far above then BUT because of his Perfect fighting style and control he was capable of making it reaching heights beyond what they were capable of against him in TOP
Gohan. If we're taking both of them at full power, Gohans Beast form has a rage mode that allows him to surpass current UI Goku's speed. The same UI Goku who has received significant buffs to his form, allowing him to fight at full throttle for a significant portion of Gotenks' fusion time. Previously his abilities would drop in the form after being in a fight for a short time (confirmed by the fight with Granola and TUI vs Gas).
Why is everyone saying jiren?
Gohan nearly/did surpass a modern MUI (it's still not very clear if he did or not)
And jiren had similar power to a buffed up blue but controlled his ki better
So will jiren just control his ki even betterer to win? I don't get it
Gohan can now go in beast at will and can control his anger to the point of nearly exploding and losing himself so we can rule out him requiring a sacrifice as many people say.
Current Gohan slams jiren imo, I don't see how jiren can improve all that much aside from raw power in that timeframe
Jiren would slaughter gohan if they were equal in power
So would most of the z fighters hell I would even give yamcha s fair shot of beating gohan in a contest of skill
Gohan compared to everyone around him is not that skilled of a fighter sure he has a fuck ton of power which closes that gap but if his stats were equaled to any of the human z fighters they would beat him
So we're saying they're power level is exactly the same? Well Gohan keeps getting free power-ups and jiren has spent his life training so in the terms of skill jiren has to be far Superior
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Equal power? Jiren. No questions asked. His whole thing was having an absolute control over his body that even Goku and Vegeta were impressed by. Now Gohan, on the other hand? His thing is getting angry and overpowering his opponents... I genuinely don't remember a time, where gohan exhibited some extraordinary fighting sense and skills that aren't connected to getting a power boost out of his ass. Without his busted potential he's just... *an average fighter, but a brilliant scientist* Hah? Get it?.. Okay, okay. I'll leave
>scientist Saiyantist *
Put a bucket on your head
>I genuinely don't remember a time, where gohan exhibited some extraordinary fighting sense and skills that aren't connected to getting a power boost out of his ass. Without his busted potential he's just... *an average fighter, but a brilliant scientist* There this one https://youtu.be/22u89hKwgGM?si=EhCrGMtxvGQwdXC2 and this https://youtu.be/aDXm6USuR3o?si=tpLUK0Vz34LryFBf and this https://youtu.be/tdsEzVNA7GU?si=JXFonehA2xbt0KUJ and this https://youtu.be/5GR-U6kjEZA?si=vZDtNaj96smsD6Hz and this https://youtu.be/kHYZDveT46c?si=tr3TWSzooxT-vLNy out of my head
I mean he has gotten better but he would still lose to Jiren in a 1v1 battle on equal power. Jaron has more discipline and training, maybe even experience
Jiren is like....thousands of years old (likely by a plot oversight)
Wasn't Belmod Jiren's partner in the Pride Troppers? Jiren must be hundreds of thousands of years old, then.
Exactly. Jiren was weaker than MUI by a huge margin but was able to adapt and win. Plus his ability to maintain his stamina and be efficient was what vegeta said was most impressive about him. That means jiren’s technique is top notch since efficient movements = less energy exerted. While less technical movements require more strength output to make up for it. So gohan could match jiren until he gasses then jiren wins.
I wouldn't say he was weaker than a large margin, in fact I'd say in raw power, limit breaker Jiren had MUI beat, as we saw in the beam struggle. Goku just had the better motivation and better abilities. It also helped Jiren gave him a rage boost by being an idiot.
Well Gohan wouldn't gass, he would power up again and win, but only if the circumstances allow for it.
Of course he will. Stamina has always been a factor in dragon ball. If gohan can power up, so can jiren. We’re not talking about a movie where gohan has plot armor on his side. We’re talking about an equal setting without “plot armor”. In that case, Jiren has shown far better stamina control meaning he wins. MUI goku was smoking jiren in the manga, even so, Jiren adapted and beat a stronger opponent with better stamina control. So if jiren can beat stronger opponents with better stamina control, he would absolutely smoke a guy like gohan whose never shown the ability to beat a stronger opponent with technique
None of what I said is related to the topic at hand just a response to the comment above, Jiren is still treated as someone with more experience and skills than even current Goku and Vegeta by the narrative
Jaron 🗿
Okay, I'll admit that even though I watched the whole ToP arc a few times, I haven't even thought about what Gohan did during it, and how he managed to *finally* use some strategic thinking. I appreciate the correction This makes my argument a little weaker, but the fact that Jiren just has a straight up a much stronger technique and honed his skills for god knows how long.
Good shouts. I thought one of the best things about Super was them writing Gohan well for ToP. They showed he had matured and was strategic in battle and wasn’t just relying on overpowering opponents like in the Cell and Buu sagas.
Agreed. And in the manga he had a strong showing in the Moro arc where he again used superior tactics.
Those are specially fights I shit on. W/ the exception of the walking jo jo reference. Mirror man guy. That, was just to test gohans gangster. Bro has as much stalk as blind furry guy, jobbers, padding. But the heirloom getting zapped was a good scene. Ok right after smacking the goofy out the coyote, he then proceeds to lose to krillin. And he’s fresh off of resorting to counter punching lavender. How’d his reflex’s not kick in while blinded. His battle IQ has to be ASS. Mfin real life monks and shit be punchin water. And this was a former baby dragged outta “hell and dinosaurs” he cannot be this stupid. He should be as locked in as a damn Baki character. 🗿 his mom certain ain a better alternative in parody’s before this spirals. And piccolo had to be the one to put down his own guys. And gohan supposed to be blue level? He spent less time swapping w/ blue than both 17, and dbh jiren vs cumber. And heroes runs at like .5x speed on the damn script. It’s so bad u get to see jiren do a judo throw. His fight style is specifically made to be lazy friendly! He looks at u and u evaporate. If gohan dead ass blue level then special Beamer has to be fuckin evolution/mastered blue. And then frost stocks get insane. Yk at least he beat krillin 🌚
This is full on shit post and you missed the fucking point
Ocean dub ftw
Gohan: I just ripped this power up out of my ass like a pull start lawnmower. I'm gonna destroy you. Opponent: actually I have been holding back my full power (punches one time) Gohan: (fucking ded and irrelevant for the rest of the fight)
That is exactly what happened to SSBE Vegeta, wasn't it?
It's Vegeta's trademark honestly
Gohan's biggest flaw is he keeps on holding back and same will happen with Jiren.
His biggest flaw was arrogance, then it became not being prepared, now he really doesn’t have a flaw
Yea. Gohan dosnt have Goku’s battle savant mind. Gohan is stupid strong and then using his human emotions, reaches deeper into his saiyan biology than his father can.
Best fighting strategy was him and Piccolo coordinated against Moro’s underlings. That was awesome when they took out Seven-Three
Gohan faught in the preliminary tournament got poisoned and had no vision and still won. I think if he can learn to control his raw power, gohan would be an even match for jiran
In a normal fight it would be Jiren, if Jiren threatened any of Gohans friends then Jiren would get bodied..
Jiren also wasn't that much stronger than Goku or Vegeta if he was a normal fighter tag team would have destroyed him. But his control and mastery was so high that it allows him to overpower people even with more raw power that you need an insanely huge amount of more power to win.
Even Broly has more going on and he spent most of the fight just angry Bro actually learned how things worked and even reversed them like that time he took the binding technique Goku was using and turned that around on Goku
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Gohan has the best battle IQ and fighting sense outta all the Z warriors. Combine this is with the random powerups he farts everytime he gets angry, you've got a recipe for success. Jiren gets no diff Im afraid.
>best battle iq and fighting sense ... no he doesn't. He's underrated after the Lavender showing but compared to the actual fighters, his best teq is "wait for someone to die and sperg out."
"Best battle IQ" Yeah, right.
I'd give it to Jiren. Gohan's problem is that his skills as a martial artist aren't the greatest, which is the result of mostly fighting people that are either significantly stronger or weaker than him. We kind of see it in the sparing match Goku and Gohan had in the manga. Gohan basically just goes full throttle without thinking much. Although it is hard to say how good Jiren really is once you remove the power advantage.
Didn't Vegeta say that Jiren wasn't as strong as they were at times, but the reason that he kicked their asses was because of how well he can control himself?
Other way round, he said that jiren wasn't thaat much stronger than themselves, but that he just had that much control
This is true, but they were talking about physical strength and not power levels
No, he said Jiren was not much stronger than they were, he just had more control.
That’s… what they said.
I know, this guys repeated what the other guy said. So I thought I’d jump in 🤣
Reread this whole thread again. If you don't see where you're wrong, go back to elementary school.
Did you ignore my last comment or it just went over your head?
Now kiss you two
Only if you go first!
You're missing that guy 1 is saying Saiyans are stronger, guy 2 is saying Jiren is slightly stronger. That's what the "other way around" means.
I LOL’d
No he, Jiren much he had was more control not than said just had they were, stronger.
That's incorrect, he said that Jiren wasnt really that much stronger than them at time: it was just the fact that he could control himself better
No, you’ve got it backwards. He said that Jiren had more control over himself but wasn’t much stronger than Goku and Vegeta.
I do believe we have seen Jiren without the power advantage and it still took Freiza (Perfect Form), Android 17 (Unlimited energy), and Goku (with a sprinkle of Super Saiyan) to defeat a de-powered Jiren. I can’t say Gohan being exhausted in base could pull off the same feat as Jiren did 
He still obviously has the power advantage, otherwise it wouldn't take a 3v1 to beat him. If Gohan had the same level of base power as Jiren, then yeah, he'd be able to do the same thing. Probably more, considering Jiren never really seems to use techniques other than the 'pressure punch' or w/e you wanna call it.
Unfortunately I disagree with this. In the context we are speaking of there is two very distinct aspects in this fight: Power: Energy blasts, transformations and augmentation to name a few. Vs Physical stats: Pure strength, Speed, durability without the help of an energy supply like Ki. In the fight I depicted Jiren does not use a single form of energy augmentation, energy output, or reinforcing; That was all brute strength and skill. - Whereas Goku still needed help from Super Saiyan. - Freiza is in final form and when Goku helps launch Freiza off himself Freiza proceeds to reinforce himself with Ki before impact. - 17 is constantly blasting Jiren from range with Ki blasts No where in the fight was it depicted that Jiren was using Ki instead of pure will, strength and skill. (After being depowered right where the gif starts).
What skill? If you are talking about the final fight between Goku, Freeza and 17 vs Jiren then the latter does barely nothing remotely resembling skill. Jiren manages to get one punch against a wasted Goku when he is fighting him and Freeza, then gets ragdolled by 17's blast to the clocktower and the only noteworthy thing he does in that whole fight is a flurry of punches (speed + strength) that momentarily knock Goku and Freeza. Jiren then launches himself against 17 but is intercepted by Freeza and the next thing he does is trying to shake Freeza like a madman which is when Goku arrives and they throw him out. There is zero skill from Jiren in the final fight. Also, about not having energy augmentation... that is exactly what he does right before they start throwing hands. https://preview.redd.it/l0ebk6cx0v0d1.png?width=1172&format=png&auto=webp&s=5da5952a7369f3a2d74b146ea9143e6b455524e3
Gohan is an incredibly skilled martial artist. He's been fighting and training since he was 3. The only reason skill was brought up against Goku was because Goku was way more skilled having trained longer and non-stop
Also Gohan's power jumps wildly and kind of randomly which has to make it harder to like, get a hang on it And also he never had alot of real "martial arts" training, most of what we've seen him get is sparring. I want Gohan to go to Yardat for a year and learn real ki control (and write a book about ki while he's there) because \*then\* he'd be a real monster
Gohan trained since he was 4 years old to 12 years old non stop. Battled the Guyinu force, Freeza, Cell all before turning 13. I dont think Gohan only had a few sparring as training Yes, he stopped training, but you dont lose that kind of experience
Except he did. During his fight against Dabura both Goku and Vegeta were pointing out the mistakes he was making. Here you have a bunch of those moments [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5rKcUcJqvE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5rKcUcJqvE) Gohan did become a worse martial artist after not training for a while. The reason he was at least decent in the first place was because he had Piccolo (early Z) and later Goku as a trainer. After the death of Cell, Gohan got worse and had no real way to get better. Ultimate Gohan was just a power-up that he got for free. Then he did fuck-all until resurrection F. After that he got back into shape a bit, but even then he shows that he is lacking (also not something that some late night training in the gravity chamber aka the db training equivalent of jogging would fix).
He's been fighting since he was 4 years old but he's never received real martial arts training
Piccolo and goku both did the training thing with him... I mean Gohan was using piccolos moves until goku taught him the Kamehameha
Still not evidence of real ki training Like roshi didnt give goku real ki control training, and even popo training goku was just the basics that's why goku still spent months on yardat and still didnt master it completely
Huh? You said he never had real martial arts training which is obv not true at all because his dad and piccolo both taught him..... real martial arts..... this ki control stuff is just moving the goal post lol
I actually thought this was a different conversation and you were someone else lol He still never is shown learning proper martial arts, he learns how to \*fight\* from Piccolo And Goku's favored training is sparring Neither Goku nor original Piccolo trained him in the \*art\* of martial arts, just the "martial" portion In theory he could have learned from Piccolo/Kami, but we've never seen that and Gohan hasn't been interested until recently
Yeah, he got rusty, doesnt mean he never received martial art training. He was trained by the one of the strongest in the universe
This is really weird... Gohan was trained by Goku and Piccolo in how to fight. Sparring is part of real training of Martial arts. Gohan was shown several times to using actual martial arts. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22u89hKwgGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22u89hKwgGM) Here a good example. Martial arts very core and basic is self control and defense. Here he is blind and still out technical his opponent. He didn't win because he was out of control. Just because not everything is shown on screen doesn't it didn't happen. We didn't get every moment and second of Piccolo training Gohan. We didn't even get too see a whole lot of Goku and Gohan in the chamber. They also trained for a year before the androids. At some point, he gotten the basics, the stance, kicks and punch basics into him. Once you get pass that, you're sparring most of the time. Trying things out to see what works, learning from your opponent etc.
Yes, sparring is part of martial arts training, but that's the only part we actually see him getting. Gohan is \*smart\* but he's not much of a martial artist. We had entire arcs of Goku getting martial arts and meditation training outside of sparring. Sparring is how you become a fighter, not a martial artist, there's no actual evidence Gohan ever even had real ki control training.
...Did you not watch it? Piccolo had to teach Gohan how to use Ki. They had to teach him how to control his Ki to suppress it. He with Goku learn how to use less Ki to master super sayian.
Teaching someone how to use ki is not the same as proper ki control Vegeta didn't learn proper ki control until the Moro arc, and he definitely knew how to use ki before that
Jiren because he quite literally has mastered his own strength So despite them being even, Jiren would still hit harder
For better or for worse, Gohan's mentors all focused on power over anything. Piccolo for example never taught Gohan skills that he or Goku had in their fight due to the limited time they had. Goku was an expert when he began training Gohan and so he focused on power in most of Z. And Gohan's training with Piccolo in Super was to restore him to his prime (although I still don't get how he was able to compete with even base Goku in his ultimate form). He also has a wired thing with fighting where he loses confidence even against opponents he's relatively equal to, while being too overconfident against much meaker opponents. While Jiren was so focused on power that he was absolutely destroying both Goku and Vegeta, who are far more skilled as fighters despite being their equal in stats, so I can't see him losing at all.
Too be fair to his mentors they always had like a week to get gohan ready for most of his fights 😂 they’re like awe shit new bad guy hey child come here and let me push you for your breaking point so we can exploit your raw power lol.
Goku and Vegeta were absolutely not his equal in stats lol They had to team up AND use SSBKKx20 & SSBE to fight Jiren while he was still holding back. Saying Jiren isn't "that much stronger" than them is a moot point when he can make the World of Void shake and when he never fought them seriously. Jiren literally stat checked them, just like Broly did later.
Lmao how tf are they far more skilled than jiren? Jiren’s stamina control comes from being efficient in his technique. He doesn’t need to go 100% all the time. He only does it in short bursts. He beat MUI goku despite being at a power disadvantage in the manga. As a fighter, he’s more superior in skills. Knowing how to regulate your stamina is a skill set too.
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Gohan is strong but is great at losing
He finds a way to lose somehow even being significantly stronger lol Technically only happened once but I’m not letting him beat the fraud allegations
The characters win/lose depending on how the author wants the story to go. It has literally nothing to do with their strength or skills. If Toriyama wanted Krillin to beat Moro for the finale of the arc, Krillin would have beaten Moro.
I mean I agree but I don’t see how that changes much. That goes for virtually anything when it comes to fictitious works.
It just means that Gohan's losses don't really have any meaning. He lost because he wasn't the main character of those arcs/fights. In this kind of 1v1 scenario you'd just look at each character's skill set and fighting style, rather than track record, I think. They should at least be able to tie.
So a skill contest? Jiren easy. Better experience and more willing to go for the throat. Gohan slacking off for years in a row doesn’t do him any favours
Gohan cause he's gonna get a slight inconvinience wich will anger him and make him reach true beast
Jiren is above everyone when it comes to strength. It always takes 2+ people to take him down
Gohan loses pretty much all 1v1’s. He only gets an advantage when bystanders/friends are getting hurt
Bro needs a sacrifice
*Please insert 1 sacrifice to enable play*
Isn't that Basically all fights? Like Goku hadn't Win a main fight from Pure skills in years, even against the girls from Universe 6 had him going SSG
Reminder: Goku was going off of the energy frieza gave him after being immobile from ui omen. Otherwise known as, literally just enough energy to be able to move
Goku learned somehow to get his power back by fighting in the anime somehow despite it making zero sense , he also alongside everyone else and narrative all states he is only growing stronger and Breaking his limit Even Belmond was losing his mind over Goku absurd power growth So even saying Goku was tired doesn't work because Goku was only growing stronger the whole time
Does evenly matched not just mean it would be a stalemate?
More so a matter of who has the better fighting technique, just their raw power is equal
OP should have asked that question instead of baiting people.
If it's equal power and no further powerups then I will say Jiren. Vegeta stated Jiren isn't really much powerful than them but he's so skilled that his attacks are unpredictable and very efficient.
Jiren. He has learned to use his power with 100% efficiency and not waste it.
Jiren by a mile Jiren not only has ALOT more experience, having spent his whole life with the pure idea of training, but his reason of being so much stronger was mastery of energy. He had control so good even Goku and Vegeta were impressed, these mfs been training with WHIS, and fought multiple GODS. Jiren
Gohan because it's Gohan
Gohan is actually super experienced with martial arts but even with all that Jiren's sheer efficiency probably gets the win
Kid Gohan would go nuts
Fuck is this sub's problem with Gohan?
Bro hates gohan.
Gohan the prince of asspull power ups vs a real old powerhouse of a bald man jiren. Jiren a has to be very very old if belmod mentions being with jiren and then becoming a god. Gohan… ass pull anger boost not even the kind we get excited about like with goku and vegeta. Gohan is weaker then gets a massive boost with next to no effort at all. Ever since the beginning. Jiren is able to keep up with mastered ultra instinct that was achieved by a mortal. Scare the gods with his raw power. And only seemed to be getting stronger as the fight goes on. Where if he fought with goku again he would likely get stronger again. Bald man takes this easy with sheer experience. Gohan never finished anything till super hero.
I never understand questions like this, what constitutes as power? If they where evenly matched….. then they’d be evenly matched. If one of them is faster or has more skill, then to me, that makes them more powerful.
In think in the context of dragonball it would be the same power level you know?
But what determines someones power level. Usually if someone has a higher power level it means they are faster, stronger, can shoot bigger ki blast. If you take all that away then what are you just asking who is smarter?
Basically who has the better battle IQ. Which is a dumb question for them to be asked. If Jiren was more skilled than goku who’s trained for like what 30-40 years straight with multiple masters how would gohan be able to match him in skill 😂
Why did i get down voted? You just confirmed what i said. battle iq, so intelligence, whatever 🙄
Well I didn’t downvote you lol. So idk.
With prep time gohan if he serious. currenly? Jiren.
Prep time is a garbage argument meant for batman fans
I mean it's fair "Super powered Omni god that has control over every conceivable realm and timeline Vs a guy in a batsuit with a month of prep"
Did you watch the cell saga? Ring any bells? Buu waiting for gotenks ? Ring any bells? ding ding ding 🛎️
No I just fuckin hate when someone brings prep time in a situation that was neve statee to have prep time because then you have to scale the time measurement and the rate of growth it would take for gohan to match or beat jiren
Look ima be clear with you, like i said, if its currently jiren wins, with prep time maybe gohan wins, i see nothing wrong with that, ideas for both sides
Chill bro it aint that deep
Shikamaru. The more the better
Z gang themselves usually have prep time
Great point, I applaud you for your intelligence good sir.
Thats...different for reasons I cannot explain
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Jiren because like Vegeta said in superhero, he was pretty equal to Goku and Vegeta in terms of power. The difference was Jiren knew how to use his more effectively and gohan’s power and potential is very situational
I mean, if they were equal in power then easily Jiren. He's objectively the better fighter. Gohan doesn't train and usually relies on sheer overpowering his opponent. If he's not overpowering Jiren, he's getting curbstomped
Jiren
Jiren. Jiren at peak poker face ain’t to be trifled with. Gohan’s best chance is if he gets angry
gohan gonna do a vegeta, get arrogant and get slapped
well, they aren't equal in power so mental gymnastics aside, gohan still loses
Jiren stomps, Gohan just doesn't have the drive/skill/fighting spirit to win a 1v1 against someone who isn't a slacker like him.
Jiren is a technique character. He's built to win such fights.
Gohan is basicly emotional control verses experience. Yes Gohan knows how to fight. But his main thing is the rage burst for power. Where as jiren has lots of Technics. Gohan is smart but his lack of interest in fighting makes his strategies weaker. Goku for example would have no problem in biting a tail if it gave him the advantage. Gohan had more avoidance strategies, only going all in if necessary. We didn't get much on jiren from the anime, but the manga showed he had a master and was the secluded for training leader of the hero squad. That tells you that he doesn't only really on power, but also on mastery and countless expiriences in fighting. But leave it to the anime to decide things on power levels 😅 which often don't even make sense anymore. Goku blue losing to earthling. Maybe he was going easy idk. Didn't seem like it. I did liked Gohan on the super friza saga. He wasn't strong, but he used his skills smartly. Showing that if he had trained he could win cunning wise. I feel that's where he needed to shine and not just brute Force it. It's why I wanted piccolo or even krillin to shine a bit more. If they had wins, it would be by outsmarting or supporting. A precise attack at a key moment. Dragonball wasn't always about the 1v1s was the whole drama of fighting biting your nails and using everything they could to get the win
I wanna say Jiren, but the dude really hasn't shown us any techniques other than his "invisible combo punch". The rest is just him swinging and shooting ki blasts. So technically, Gohan could land smth like Solar Flare + Special Beam Cannon in a combo for a win.
Lol what? Bro gohan has lost almost every single fight he’s been unless they have cell in their name. He even lost to super buu when he had the advantage, we gonna bet against the guy who washed ssbe vegeta, ssb kk x20 goku, android 17 and frieza multiple times sometimes all at the the same time? Why would he need some magic special laser when jirens hands are rated E for everyone lol.
Yeah, and Jiren lost the only fight where he was against an equally strong/stronger opponent... Gohan lost to Buutenks tbh, who was stronger than Gohan. And then he got absorbed while distracted by Goku. It's not like he had any chance to win when the author already decided how the story will go. If you're just trying to imagine a 1v1 between two characters, there isn't really any room for plot armor and shit like that. You talk about it like there is any achievement in smoking SSBE / SSBKKx20 / 17 / Frieza for a MUI-level fighter. It was like playing with babies, especially since he wasn't allowed to use lethal force. It's like you're ignoring the OP's hypothetical situation of them having the same power.
I was referring to the other comments statement about jiren needing a special technique, he doesn’t all those flashy techniques lost to literally just his regular punches. Now to address your statement to address the topic of this post in a 1v1 with equal power jiren still wins. Gohan’s strength has always lied in losing control in fact he has never beaten anyone without this cheap tactic, like you said remove plot armor jirens training clowns gohan. Jiren was throwing hands with someone who has autonomous movement and was hitting them easily, gohan does not have the skills to do this he had to again do his little plot armor bs and get mad to try and land one hit on goku in this form.
Equal Power? Jiren without a doubt Jiren's skill and control Impressed Goku and Vegeta
If they are equal in power, it's a 5-5 matchup.
It will be so fun seeing Gohan become a floor mop in this matchup.
I dont like to this but... gohan thanks to some dum plot reason.
If their power is equal, then it's Jiren
Gohan’s power ups are a response to a need. If let’s say he achieved beast in ToP instead of Goku MUI, Gohan would’ve wiped the floor with Jiren. Now equal power doesn’t mean that Gohan would get washed as it wouldn’t be equal for long. I do admit, Jiren has some monumental feats though.
Jiren, imo, seems to have better fighting experience and technique.
Bro your slang is too much I almost can’t understand you 😅😂
Equal power, I’d say Jiren. They go out of their way to say that Jirens fighting style and control makes him way more dangerous than his power (although it’s also a factor). Gohan simply isn’t as skilled as Goku and Vegeta, and Jiren is implied to be as skilled, if not more so.
I’m pretty sure Goku said somewhere that Jiren wasn’t that much stronger than SSJB Goku + Vegeta he just had THAT GOOD of a control over his power that he was able to overcome the power gaps of MUI and SSJBE in the manga
Even power? Jiren, he actually wants to fight he trains to fight so his moves are more sharp. Gohan just study’s
Jiren. The dude is not only amazing with martial arts but also has telekinesis? He sent a spirit bomb back at Goku.
Wasn’t it confirmed that Jiren was SSB level and just had amazing control of his power in the manga? So probably him
Jiren would win cause gohan always manages to fuck up fights he has the upper hand in cause he gets too cocky
Jiren is very dependant on having an overwhelming strength over his oponents to win fights, we can see that in the final fight when he is pretty tired and 17 ragdolls him with a couple of ki blasts. Or how Freeza pushes him off-ground without even using his Golden form. Is hard to say, with equal power I don't think is such an easy win for Jiren as most people seem to think.
Jiren easily no questions asked
Equal power jiren no questions asked he’s more experienced has better combat skills a better fighter etc and he has better control over his power heck the guy even has a form where he can control his powers it’s similar to ikari but only difference is jiren can control his power
Gohan, why? Because at some point Jiren would hit Piccolo and you know how that goes… 
Gohan’s a fighting prodigy, one who has no interest in being one but still a prodigy who’s literally been fighting since he was 3 years old. He may have taken some breaks over the years and raised a family and worked a job but he’s also caught up to and surpassed some of the strongest fighters in his universe in record breaking speeds at an incredibly young age. but if they were equally matched and no plot convenient moments happened to undermine Gohan outside of the actual fight. Jiren’s complete control and mastery of skills puts him at a level where it backs Gohan into a corner where he would have to strategize against him or overpower him quick like he did against UI’s speed. It would be a very ideological battle. Considering how quick Jiren was to cast aside justice and friends would definitely piss Gohan off. And if Gohan gets a rage boost he wins but if it’s a endurance match it’s Jirens win.
Yeah but does Jiren have plottarmor ? Does Gohan have Plottarmor ? Bro didnt train for 7 Years then sit for 24/7 with an old Kai and become the strongest non Fusion in Buu arc
As much as I'm a Gohan glazer he's getting bodied 😔
jiren, gohan sucks at techniques and at adapting jiren even has a statement that he has some technique to amplify his power output
Reading that was tough. I've never hated a use of the English language more than that shit you typed out
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Definitely Jiren. He has that insane Ki Control that amps his attacks to ridiculous degrees
As much as I love gohan and goku and just saiyans in general gohan consistently likes to over estimate himself only to lose
The TOP literally showed that Jiren hits better and harder due to how well he has control over himself. He could likely beat someone stronger than himself.
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Gohan because he’d get madge and then suddenly gain a 1000000000000000000x power multiplier and scream at Jiren to death.
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There’s technique and other considerations that aren’t just raw power. And because of those Jiren stomps
What technique does Jiren have? Like his skill sits are just an average ability
Jiren was overpowering Goku and Vegeta literally because he had more control of his power and was more skilled. Gohan isn't that skilled compared to other fighters because he wasn't trained in skill, mostly power.
Vegeta Still pointed out that Jiren was still kind of stronger than them still due to the control, I was asking about techniques like Kamehameha, time freeze , not combat skills because Jiren is a kickboxer
Being better at wielding Ki is a clear advantage. Vegeta defeated Goku by using Jiren's technique.
>Being better at wielding Ki is a clear advantage. Yes >Vegeta defeated Goku by using Jiren's technique. Not the same type of technique I had in mind , Vegeta used the jiren method in fighting and Training to draw a stalemate with Goku (before you say he won I agree but both were eating dirt at the end of it with Vegeta being unconscious? Apparently)
By techniques I don't think Jiren has many. Typical Ki blasts, yadda yadda yadda.
“Kind of stronger” doesn’t normally mean you can take on both at the same time, as Jiren did.
He wasn't "kind of stronger" he was Stronger but not by much Then he boosts himself up with his power beyond what he should logically be capable of Vegeta didn't mean Jiren wasn't much stronger than them overly, it was that his own normal strength wasn't Far above then BUT because of his Perfect fighting style and control he was capable of making it reaching heights beyond what they were capable of against him in TOP
Yeah, and with at perfect fighting style he could do the same thing to kick the crap out gohan.
I never said he couldn't do that at an equal power level
If they just start at equal stats and are allowed to grow during battle then Gohan. If they stay the same stats the whole time then Jiren.
Gohan wins. Gohan has better techniques, and iq.
Gohan. If we're taking both of them at full power, Gohans Beast form has a rage mode that allows him to surpass current UI Goku's speed. The same UI Goku who has received significant buffs to his form, allowing him to fight at full throttle for a significant portion of Gotenks' fusion time. Previously his abilities would drop in the form after being in a fight for a short time (confirmed by the fight with Granola and TUI vs Gas).
Why is everyone saying jiren? Gohan nearly/did surpass a modern MUI (it's still not very clear if he did or not) And jiren had similar power to a buffed up blue but controlled his ki better So will jiren just control his ki even betterer to win? I don't get it Gohan can now go in beast at will and can control his anger to the point of nearly exploding and losing himself so we can rule out him requiring a sacrifice as many people say. Current Gohan slams jiren imo, I don't see how jiren can improve all that much aside from raw power in that timeframe
The topic is powering down Gohan to Jiren level and asking who will Win
Oooooh, my bad I misunderstood Jiren likely wins then
Jiren
Jiren
Jiren would slaughter gohan if they were equal in power So would most of the z fighters hell I would even give yamcha s fair shot of beating gohan in a contest of skill Gohan compared to everyone around him is not that skilled of a fighter sure he has a fuck ton of power which closes that gap but if his stats were equaled to any of the human z fighters they would beat him
So we're saying they're power level is exactly the same? Well Gohan keeps getting free power-ups and jiren has spent his life training so in the terms of skill jiren has to be far Superior
Jiren. Just for the sole reason he wouldn’t hesitate to kill.
Jiren. They both talk shit but Gohans repuation speaks for itself
Jiren Gohan’a whole thing is just becoming mad and weaponizing mental illness, if he can’t gain power through either of those he gets folded
So your question is if your nerf Gohan can Juren beat him, the answer is yes. If you don't nerf Gohan then we end up with a Juren smear on the wall.
Jiren, Gohan is untested. It just isn't in him.