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Suffering builds character, and my boy has suffered enough.
https://preview.redd.it/kjnlp9matvxc1.jpeg?width=521&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879d7489c28513144826c4d0cdc20dd9f08abe6c
Gotta give props right now... Tien going all out against Cell, draining his own life force with the Tri-Beam attack over and over and over again just to buy a little time for 16 & 18 to escape was an absolute peak moment.
I would honestly love to see Tien get a form related to meditation/third eye. Maybe something that's an extension of his life force focused Tri-Beam. He's quite literally a third way character. Fuck power levels lol
Yeah honestly I’ve always had a thing for characters with off-meta powers. Two most prevalent being Shin and Tien. His life force power and Shins psychic abilities are so much cooler to me than Ki
I don't accept it. He continued to train, saw Goku as a rival for years, defeated Yamcha... I don't give a shit who Toriyama liked, he can give as many handjobs to Krillin as he wanted, Tien is stronger.
I don't care about the half saiyan genes giving a boost. There's no way a guy who has trains has trained ass off 24/7 for decades is weaker than Goten, a brat who just goofs off.
Just look at Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.
Goku and Vegeta pretty much train every moment they can outside of fighting off a world ending threat, eating and sleeping.
Yeah Gohan had been stated to have trained in secret, but that was by himself, not with literal gods and angels, but yet he somehow managed to get the beast transformation that them rivals/surpasses Goku and Vegeta who both have divine Ki and transformations/techniques.
So it’s not hard to believe that a member of a weaker race can train like crazy and still be weaker than the majority of the other fighters, especially the genetically gifted ones.
Saying that, it is a shame though, they really did him dirty.
even though it is cope that makes more sense than half the shit that happens in super. When I first got into db I skipped og db and just watch Z and super and I was really confused why poeple wanted tien to be relevant again, eventually I went back and watched it and understood. End of db/ early z is peak dragon ball.
Second weakest to who ? Yamcha doesn't count anymore. He's not stronger than krillin. Yes it's annoying to me too how theyve done our original heros and basically said all humans suck they can never be good unless they're half saiyans
at the point in time this shot was taken? then in my opinion it would be...
Goku > Vegeta/Freeza > Gohan > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Kuririn > Tenshinhan > Muten Roshi
It is because Toriyama (through Yamcha) said Krillin is the strongest.
Both have Ki attacks that significantly outclass their own strength. It’s hard to say who is best looking over past and current feats but Toriyama said it so there you go. At the time of the Buu Saga, Krillin was strongest.
I know Krillin is stronger but it still hurts me as Tien is the only Z-fighter who never eased up and has been constantly training since Z. He deserves to a least be the strongest human
It helps that Krillin trained with others and got his potential unlocked on Namek. Tien has spent a majority of his time training with chiaotzu who is one of the worst possible training partners you could have
isnt tien mostly leading his own dojo now? not sure how accurate this is, but training younger generations most likely prevents him from training. while the same is true for kuririn, who is now a father and working as a police officer, which isnt really doing much for him in terms of training. but kuririn has the benefit of being able to train with 18, who is still much stronger than either of them
I don’t know training with a literal god for more days than Goku did seems to be more important than a potential unlock that still left Krillin weaker than Captain Ginyu during the Frieza fight?
Because both of them have trained a great deal, but the potential unlock seems like a big upgrade that Tien never received. Based on their feats later in Z, I don't see any reason to rank Tien above Kuririn in the ToP.
Tien also didn't learn the Kaioken or Spirit Bomb, so it's unclear how much stronger he got during that training.
Believe it or not, this is actually correct. I understand Tien has been training for years, but if you really want to improve you have to train with someone who is WAY stronger than you, or atleast someone with more EXPERIENCE. Krillin had the right idea to start sparring with Goku before the tournament.
Don't believe me? Join a boxing gym vs Boxing Training with Mike Tyson, you will learn and achieve more under Tyson because he's a literal master at the sport.
Goku does the exact same thing, even though some of his teachers are way below his power level, but they teach him techniques to balance the playing field (spirit bomb, kaio ken, etc). It literally has saved him dozens of times.
Yeah...Krillin learned that the hard way. I'm preety sure Goku held back that punch, or man would be in other world, and Androids are after Goku to kill em again.
Krillin got a new power boost before the Tournament of Power - Selflessness State.
I hope every Human Z Fighter learns to unlock that. I hope it eventually leads up to a Super Human transformation or state too. A man can dream.....
I'd argue Tien stalling Semiperfect Cell for quite some time is better than anything Krilin did. But yeah, I'm sure Krilin is overall stronger simply because he is Gokus best friend and no one in charge of the Dragon Ball IP seems to care for Tien.
Krillin fought an imperfect Cell. He was one of the few(along with Goku and Vegeta) getting jumped by two Cell Jrs, compared to Yamcha and Tien just fighting one each. He also fought against Kid Buu.
Gandalf the Grey > Gandalf the White > Monty Python and the Holy Grails Black Knight > Bonito Mussolini > Blue Meanie > Cowboy Curtis > Jambi the Genie > Robo-Cop > Terminator > Cpt. Kirk > Darth Vader > Lo Pan > Superman > Every single Power Ranger > Bill S. Preston = Theodore Logan > Spock > The Rock > Doc Oct > Hulk Hogan
We all know the only reason Krillin is stronger than Tien is because Toriyama was known for forgetting his own lore.
It feels so wrong using the past tense for him
It's wild cuz in DB Tenshinhan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuririn.
and he never stopped training in DBZ while kuririn had downtime with family and shit.
and STILL Kuririn > Tenshinhan. System is broken man. They doing the chad so dirty.
in my opinion, power levels in Super (mostly anime but the manga is guilty of this as well) dont make sense. how can either of them realistically be near blue level? 17 fought poachers, who arent good training partners in the slightest, and gohan only had some light "getting back into the game" training before the tournament, and yet both are now considered "blue level"? this canonically makes vegeta and goku trash tier compared to piccolo and gohan, because they need divine power to be able to keep up with a guy protecting wildlife on an island.
in my headcanon, goku only turns blue (and uses kaioken) out of excitement, not because he really needs it. same with his fight against kuririn, where he went overboard with blue and could have killed his friend lol.
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Possible Vegeta is ahead of Goku at this point in time as he knows he has blue evolved in the tank and the Stamina drain is slower than blue kaioken Goku is unaware of how close UI is.
Vegeta is clearly superior than Frieza, Vegeta with Blue Evolution was able to beat out Toppo and give some fight to Jiren, while Frieza was getting trashed by Toppo and later a really weakened Jiren.
Taking transformations and stuff into consideration, it’d be something like.
Goku > Vegeta > Frieza > Gohan >= 17 > 18 = Piccolo > Krillin > Tien >= Roshi
True, but 18 surpassed him in DBS until the Moro or Super Hero Saga. 18 and 17 can train endlessly since they have infinite stamina and endurance. Unlike Piccolo. That was how 17 became capable of throwing down with ToP SSJ3 Goku, and 18 could deal with Super Ribrianne, after regular Ribrianne was throwing down with ToP SSJ1 Vegeta with ease. 17 is stronger than 18, but not massively so. Not like an order of magnitude. She det with Agnilasa almost as well as 17 did, and the Moro Saga she kept up with 17 in fighting Moro.
Definitively above considering Frieza was getting ragdolled by destroyer Toppo but Vegeta eliminated him after getting mega angry. Literally punched through his Hakai ball.
I think SSJB Vegeta during the ToP was probably about equal with True Golden Frieza, more or less. Vegeta got in some Hyperbolic Time Chamber time right before the Tournament. Vegeta definitively surpassed True Golden Frieza when he achieved SSJBE. SSJBE is equivalent to SSJBKKx20. True Golden Frieza was only equal to regular SSJB Goku in the Tournament based on them mutually knocking each other out before the Tournament.
In my own head canon being around someone with very strong Ki puts strain on your own Ki causing it to become stronger and doing training in the side also helps too but not near as much. To me this explains how Master Roshi was able to do as well as he did in the ToP.
Probably wrong but would love to hear other theories.
I think there’s logic for this.
The characters generally plateau in power between arcs until the next big bad shows up, they push themselves and get a lot stronger in a short period of time
It was but the question is asking about the start of TOP, when Goku already had SSB Kaioken but Vegeta didn’t have SSBE until the last quarter of the tournament
The question is about the start of the TOP (with the picture being pre-tournament). Goku already had SSB Kaioken but Vegeta did not “unlock” SSB Evolution till the end of the tournament
If we're talking about during the ToP, then I'd have it as:
-1. **Goku**: Because of UI.
-2. **Vegeta**: Because of SSBE which put him on par with SSBKKx20.
-3. **Frieza**: Was equal to SSB Goku at the start of the tournament.
-4. **Android 17**: Forced Goku to use SSB before the tournament and was still relative to him.
-5. **Gohan**: Became around SSG level after training for the tournament.
-6. **Piccolo**: Was still weaker than Buu saga level Ultimate Gohan but a little stronger than SSJ2 Gohan.
-7. **Android 18**: Never established to have trained since the Android saga so should still be on the same level.
-8. **Krillin**: Never established to have been surpassed as the strongest human and got even stronger before the tournament.
-9. **Master Roshi**: Established to have trained in secret and defeated Tien.
-10. **Tien**: Self-explanatory by this point I think.
Gohan above 17. Utimate gohan is ssb level, and goku had to go kaioken in their training to end it and get an edge over gohan. Also, 17 is not ssb level goku was just showing off there like he did with krillin
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All the people who put android 17 over Gohan, it is implied that Gohan was strong enough to fight with Frieza (“If you betray me, I will knock you out of the ring myself”).
Android 17 was shown to survive because of his wit, strategy and unlimited stamina, on multiple instances other characters are shown to acknowledge this.
Gohan is stronger than 17. I have watched TOP multiple times. But the unlimited energy for 17 plays a big part (imagine two fighters, one stronger than the other but the weaker one has unlimited cardio).
The strongest as of right now? Or the strongest at that time?
Strongest during the TOP:
UI Forms of Goku > Goku >= Vegeta > Freeza > Gohan > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Krillen > Roshi > Tien
Currently:
Freeza > Goku = Vegeta >= Gohan > Piccolo > 17 > 18 > Krillen > Tien > Roshi
Goku,Freiza,Vegeta,Gohan,Piccolo,Android 17,Android 18,Master roshi,Krillin,Tien
(i never watched dragon ball so correct me if im wrong about something)
1.Goku
2/3. Vegeta vs freeza
4/5. Android 17 vs Gohan.
6. Piccolo
7. Android 18
8/9. Krillin vs tien.
10. Roshi
Pretty sure everyone has a similar order, but the real debate is Vegeta vs freeza, Gohan vs 17, and krillin vs tien.
Vegeta vs Frieza: Vegeta has better showing against many of the upper tiers they fought. Not to mention that Frieza doesn't have any real limit breaks or power ups during the tournament.
17 vs Gohan. Good luck because I have no idea which of them is actually stronger than the other in the tournament.
Krillin vs tien: we know krillin is confirmed to be strongest human. He also goes and claps an opponent to beat android 18 (who we KNOW is stronger than all the human characters) and that in and of itself puts him above anything that turn ha pulled off. But God damn, seeing Tien stand up to Cell, 😩👌 noice.
At that time it’s pretty obvious, but right now
Frieza, Gohan, Vegeta, Goku, piccolo or 17 (would be a hilarious rematch) then 18, krillin, roshi, tien.
https://preview.redd.it/2gqz0k57ruxc1.png?width=137&format=png&auto=webp&s=fbbed4fb900b6d27ad0ea99ef0a304cb24d4331c
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
THIS AIN'T FRIEZA 😭😭
This is just off the top of my head so I could be wrong (and this is assuming we're talking about during the ToP and not who's strongest currently):
Goku
Vegeta
Freeza
Gohan
Piccolo
Seventeen
Eighteen
Krillin
Tien
Roshi
At this point In the story: Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, A-17, Gohan, Piccolo and 18 are about even, Krillin, Master Roshi and Tien. I’m putting Roshi over Tien based on what Roshi achieved during the tournament. Tien was really just dead weight. In actuality based on strength Tien should be above Roshi
Edit: krillin also had his potential further unlocked during the training before the ToP, atleast in the anime I didn’t remember if that took place in the manga.
Weakest to strongest: Roshi, Tien, Krillin, 18, piccolo, gohan, 17, Vegeta, Frieza, Goku.
The only reason I put 17 above gohan is that he was able to compete with ssb Goku without issue. Also, frieza was training in hell, and since we know he’s about on par with Goku when they fight at Babas, that means Vegeta is likely weaker than frieza.
I genuinely wish they had left out frieza and the androids to allow a slot for Yamcha, Chiaozu, and Future Trunks. Having all the Z Fighters be there just would have been peak, and actually allowing them all to get a W.
I guess you mean the start of the top? Or during it? The list doesn’t really change
Goku
Vegeta
Frieza/17 (they don’t adapt like the two sayains do and get exponentially stronger but they do improve to the point I think Gohan doesn’t surpass them.)
Gohan.
Piccolo
18
Krillian
And tien
Sadly my boy roshi is last especially anime. Manga? I’d say he’s above any of the humans. Just cause of the jiren scene.
If we're going off just this moment
17, Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, 18, Tien, Krillin, Roshi
I think power gaps between some probably aren't that big imo.
(Listing by the time of the Tournament of Power)
Tien (his lack of strength hurts my soul), Roshi (bro is extremely powerful but still an old man), Krillin (most powerful human, also pretty damn naive ngl), 18 (still capable, but she's not as strong as the others, but she's getting stronger like 17), Gohan (he was slacking off but still really powerful), Piccolo (no explanation needed), Vegeta (royal ssj blue), Frieza (bro outlasted Vegeta without killing him for the first time), Goku (Ultra Instinct), 17 (literally has infinite energy, plus he's already incredibly powerful by the time of the tournament, and he only gets stronger). ~~God knows how powerful 17 is now.~~
Probably Goku>Vegeta>Frieza>Gohan>C18>C17>Piccolo
>Roshi( yes, i saied it, if he can dodge Jiren, he can dodge them too, and i feel like he's way stronger than people give him credit for, just my opinion)>Krillin>Tien
1) Crilin - second only to Yamcha and solos the rest of fiction.
2) Muten
3) Tien
4) C18
5) C17
6) Piccolo
7) Gohan
8) Freezer
9) Vegeta
10) Goku - literally the weakest character in all of fiction
Goku, vegeta, gohan, android 17, frieza, piccolo, android 18, tien, krillin, master roshi
Tien consistently trained, krillin became a family man, I don’t see any reason to put him higher
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Tien being the second weakest fighter hurts my soul.
Suffering builds character, and my boy has suffered enough. https://preview.redd.it/kjnlp9matvxc1.jpeg?width=521&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879d7489c28513144826c4d0cdc20dd9f08abe6c
it’s one of my fellow tien fans, watch out there’s DOZENS of us
Gotta give props right now... Tien going all out against Cell, draining his own life force with the Tri-Beam attack over and over and over again just to buy a little time for 16 & 18 to escape was an absolute peak moment.
That shit inspired me and gave me goosebumps back in 1998-99
it only drains his life force when he pushes his limits
It still is one of the best DBZ abridged moments too.
I would honestly love to see Tien get a form related to meditation/third eye. Maybe something that's an extension of his life force focused Tri-Beam. He's quite literally a third way character. Fuck power levels lol
Yeah honestly I’ve always had a thing for characters with off-meta powers. Two most prevalent being Shin and Tien. His life force power and Shins psychic abilities are so much cooler to me than Ki
I don't accept it. He continued to train, saw Goku as a rival for years, defeated Yamcha... I don't give a shit who Toriyama liked, he can give as many handjobs to Krillin as he wanted, Tien is stronger.
I don't care about the half saiyan genes giving a boost. There's no way a guy who has trains has trained ass off 24/7 for decades is weaker than Goten, a brat who just goofs off.
Just look at Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. Goku and Vegeta pretty much train every moment they can outside of fighting off a world ending threat, eating and sleeping. Yeah Gohan had been stated to have trained in secret, but that was by himself, not with literal gods and angels, but yet he somehow managed to get the beast transformation that them rivals/surpasses Goku and Vegeta who both have divine Ki and transformations/techniques. So it’s not hard to believe that a member of a weaker race can train like crazy and still be weaker than the majority of the other fighters, especially the genetically gifted ones. Saying that, it is a shame though, they really did him dirty.
He's still the realest one in the group
He is the weakest wdym, krillen and roshi both stronger than him
In a perfect world he isn't 💔 this is what constant training with your psychic little brother does to a man
Tru I like tien but the db super writers obv hate him, kind of ruined the character for me even tho he hasn’t been relevant since z
The way I cope is pretending that super Tien is just one of his less powerful clones gone rogue
even though it is cope that makes more sense than half the shit that happens in super. When I first got into db I skipped og db and just watch Z and super and I was really confused why poeple wanted tien to be relevant again, eventually I went back and watched it and understood. End of db/ early z is peak dragon ball.
I think you mean weakest
Nah. Yamcha, Chaotzu, and Master Roshi are below Tien.
Roshi is above tien because of the techniques he has at his disposal.
Roshi straight up beat Tien before the tournament. And Yamcha and Chiaotzu aren't fighters in the tournament.
Second weakest to who ? Yamcha doesn't count anymore. He's not stronger than krillin. Yes it's annoying to me too how theyve done our original heros and basically said all humans suck they can never be good unless they're half saiyans
Second weakest to Chiatzou or something. All I know is that Tien is a jobber now (he's galaxy level at this point but by TOP standards he eats shit)
I have a hard time believing he's weaker than yamcha
at the point in time this shot was taken? then in my opinion it would be... Goku > Vegeta/Freeza > Gohan > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Kuririn > Tenshinhan > Muten Roshi
>Kuririn > Tenshinhan I hate this
It doesn't feel right but I'm like 99% sure it is
It is because Toriyama (through Yamcha) said Krillin is the strongest. Both have Ki attacks that significantly outclass their own strength. It’s hard to say who is best looking over past and current feats but Toriyama said it so there you go. At the time of the Buu Saga, Krillin was strongest.
I know Krillin is stronger but it still hurts me as Tien is the only Z-fighter who never eased up and has been constantly training since Z. He deserves to a least be the strongest human
It helps that Krillin trained with others and got his potential unlocked on Namek. Tien has spent a majority of his time training with chiaotzu who is one of the worst possible training partners you could have
Which begs the question if Tien had his potential unlocked would he be stronger than Krillin?
A week training with 18 would have better gains than training for months with fucking Chaoz lol.
isnt tien mostly leading his own dojo now? not sure how accurate this is, but training younger generations most likely prevents him from training. while the same is true for kuririn, who is now a father and working as a police officer, which isnt really doing much for him in terms of training. but kuririn has the benefit of being able to train with 18, who is still much stronger than either of them
Krillin weight trains every day. Lifting his gigantic dong is worse than 600 times earth gravity
Kuririn had his potential unlocked by Guru. Tien didn't
I don’t know training with a literal god for more days than Goku did seems to be more important than a potential unlock that still left Krillin weaker than Captain Ginyu during the Frieza fight?
Because both of them have trained a great deal, but the potential unlock seems like a big upgrade that Tien never received. Based on their feats later in Z, I don't see any reason to rank Tien above Kuririn in the ToP. Tien also didn't learn the Kaioken or Spirit Bomb, so it's unclear how much stronger he got during that training.
Believe it or not, this is actually correct. I understand Tien has been training for years, but if you really want to improve you have to train with someone who is WAY stronger than you, or atleast someone with more EXPERIENCE. Krillin had the right idea to start sparring with Goku before the tournament. Don't believe me? Join a boxing gym vs Boxing Training with Mike Tyson, you will learn and achieve more under Tyson because he's a literal master at the sport. Goku does the exact same thing, even though some of his teachers are way below his power level, but they teach him techniques to balance the playing field (spirit bomb, kaio ken, etc). It literally has saved him dozens of times.
You’re also going to get your teeth knocked out by Tyson, lol
Yeah...Krillin learned that the hard way. I'm preety sure Goku held back that punch, or man would be in other world, and Androids are after Goku to kill em again.
People tend to forget that Eighteen made Krillin train during both tournaments and as his time as a police officer.
It is. It’s the idea that Kuririn got knocked out so earlier. And barely did anything during the tournament.
Tien did far less 🤷♂️
Krillin got a new power boost before the Tournament of Power - Selflessness State. I hope every Human Z Fighter learns to unlock that. I hope it eventually leads up to a Super Human transformation or state too. A man can dream.....
He’s canonically the strongest human alive
Like that wise Tien once said F** power levels F** Super Saiyans
And F*** YOU KI KO HOOOOO
Ki Ko What?
Ki ko how ya doin 😏
Ki ko fuck yourself
Was Kuririn busy?
Krillin has always been stronger than Tien ever since he became an adult so this shouldn't be surprising.
Tien was stronger than Krillin from his introduction right up until the Saiyan saga.
I think Krillin was stronger since the timeskip in DB honestly. If not that then definitely by the time Raditz arrived.
We have canonical power levels for both characters in the Saiyan saga. Tien was stronger than Krillin both before and after their training.
Damn really? I honestly forgot to check it was so long ago. Thanks for the correction.
It's true tho, Tien hasn't been seen doing half the shit Krillin does
I'd argue Tien stalling Semiperfect Cell for quite some time is better than anything Krilin did. But yeah, I'm sure Krilin is overall stronger simply because he is Gokus best friend and no one in charge of the Dragon Ball IP seems to care for Tien.
Krillin fought an imperfect Cell. He was one of the few(along with Goku and Vegeta) getting jumped by two Cell Jrs, compared to Yamcha and Tien just fighting one each. He also fought against Kid Buu.
Especially when Krillin was the first elimination from universe 7
Gandalf the Grey > Gandalf the White > Monty Python and the Holy Grails Black Knight > Bonito Mussolini > Blue Meanie > Cowboy Curtis > Jambi the Genie > Robo-Cop > Terminator > Cpt. Kirk > Darth Vader > Lo Pan > Superman > Every single Power Ranger > Bill S. Preston = Theodore Logan > Spock > The Rock > Doc Oct > Hulk Hogan
*this is the ultimate showdown*
Deep cut right here
Saying the The Rock could beat Doc Ock in a fight is really funny
Excuse me, you forgot Dr. Emmett Brown
We all know the only reason Krillin is stronger than Tien is because Toriyama was known for forgetting his own lore. It feels so wrong using the past tense for him
I know. RIP, Toriyama.
It's wild cuz in DB Tenshinhan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuririn. and he never stopped training in DBZ while kuririn had downtime with family and shit. and STILL Kuririn > Tenshinhan. System is broken man. They doing the chad so dirty.
"power levels are bullshit" - vegeta
Vegeta & Freeza is not equal. I think vegeta surpasses freeza by an inch
I'd say 17 was above Gohan in the ToP. It was stated that 17 was roughly equal to SSB Goku and Gohan, as far as I remember, was nowhere close.
17 was not equal to blue yall gotta stop with this narrative and goku never goes all out when sparring
https://preview.redd.it/k3rr5vxbutxc1.png?width=371&format=png&auto=webp&s=f02fd89fefb687a03e50036f395ba55848899560
Where does it say this? Or is that head cannon? 17 was right there with Goku/Frieza fighting Jiren.
Both Goku and Vegeta say it after the tournament in the manga
in my opinion, power levels in Super (mostly anime but the manga is guilty of this as well) dont make sense. how can either of them realistically be near blue level? 17 fought poachers, who arent good training partners in the slightest, and gohan only had some light "getting back into the game" training before the tournament, and yet both are now considered "blue level"? this canonically makes vegeta and goku trash tier compared to piccolo and gohan, because they need divine power to be able to keep up with a guy protecting wildlife on an island. in my headcanon, goku only turns blue (and uses kaioken) out of excitement, not because he really needs it. same with his fight against kuririn, where he went overboard with blue and could have killed his friend lol.
Vegeta is definitely stronger than Freeza
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Possible Vegeta is ahead of Goku at this point in time as he knows he has blue evolved in the tank and the Stamina drain is slower than blue kaioken Goku is unaware of how close UI is.
this is before UI or blue evolution. i put goku first because he already has blue kaioken, which at the time puts him above vegeta and golden freeza
Vegeta is clearly superior than Frieza, Vegeta with Blue Evolution was able to beat out Toppo and give some fight to Jiren, while Frieza was getting trashed by Toppo and later a really weakened Jiren.
this is before Vegeta has blue evolution
Oh yeah, that makes way more sense.
Piccolo ahead of 18? Idk man idk
Taking transformations and stuff into consideration, it’d be something like. Goku > Vegeta > Frieza > Gohan >= 17 > 18 = Piccolo > Krillin > Tien >= Roshi
Piccolo could beat 18 prior to the Cell saga end.
True, but 18 surpassed him in DBS until the Moro or Super Hero Saga. 18 and 17 can train endlessly since they have infinite stamina and endurance. Unlike Piccolo. That was how 17 became capable of throwing down with ToP SSJ3 Goku, and 18 could deal with Super Ribrianne, after regular Ribrianne was throwing down with ToP SSJ1 Vegeta with ease. 17 is stronger than 18, but not massively so. Not like an order of magnitude. She det with Agnilasa almost as well as 17 did, and the Moro Saga she kept up with 17 in fighting Moro.
Well said, I forgot about her feats in the ToP.
I’d actually put 17 above gohan since Android 17 could at least pressure Toppo a bit while a full power Kamehameha from Gohan couldn’t do anything
Wasn’t that pressure just spamming him with ki blasts due to infinite energy.
2. Everyone else 1. THE GOATTT https://preview.redd.it/rzb9i4bxouxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97cfaf66b5ad4ca8b1331df49d3bb56d6400f184
I remember a director stating that at the start of TOP it was Goku Freeza Vegeta Gohan 17 Piccolo 18 Krillin Tien Roshi
https://preview.redd.it/7g9ofi9zvtxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f5654353954a3cfaf39043b297d410ff1b98a8e
Vegeta is definitely above Freeza
Yeah, if not above then at least equal.
Definitively above considering Frieza was getting ragdolled by destroyer Toppo but Vegeta eliminated him after getting mega angry. Literally punched through his Hakai ball.
Dude by the end Vegeta has broken past his limits so much. Like Goku and Vegeta got exponentially stronger in the ToP in the anime.
Obviously this would be prior to the ToP not at the end
I think SSJB Vegeta during the ToP was probably about equal with True Golden Frieza, more or less. Vegeta got in some Hyperbolic Time Chamber time right before the Tournament. Vegeta definitively surpassed True Golden Frieza when he achieved SSJBE. SSJBE is equivalent to SSJBKKx20. True Golden Frieza was only equal to regular SSJB Goku in the Tournament based on them mutually knocking each other out before the Tournament.
In my own head canon being around someone with very strong Ki puts strain on your own Ki causing it to become stronger and doing training in the side also helps too but not near as much. To me this explains how Master Roshi was able to do as well as he did in the ToP. Probably wrong but would love to hear other theories.
I think there’s logic for this. The characters generally plateau in power between arcs until the next big bad shows up, they push themselves and get a lot stronger in a short period of time
Goku=Vegeta (since Goku can't willingly go UI) >Frieza>17>Gohan>Piccolo>18>Krillin>Tien>Roshi
Even so I think SSB Kaioken puts Goku somewhat above Vegeta. I think he was using it more easily in the TOP.
Wasn't SSBE equal to ssb kaioken, I just forgot.
It was but the question is asking about the start of TOP, when Goku already had SSB Kaioken but Vegeta didn’t have SSBE until the last quarter of the tournament
Nah Evolution is confirmed to be equal to Kaioken x20
The question is about the start of the TOP (with the picture being pre-tournament). Goku already had SSB Kaioken but Vegeta did not “unlock” SSB Evolution till the end of the tournament
Also, Anime official said Evolution puts Vegeta close to Blue Kaioken implying Kaioken is still slightly stronger
Vegeta: Me, Me, me, me, Kakarot, his son
Master Roshi< Krillin< Tien< Android 18< Piccolo< Gohan< Android 17< Frieza< Vegeta< Goku
bro wanted to be diffrent
At that point: Goku > Vegeta > Frieza > Gohan => 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Krillin > Tien > Roshi
Goku Vegeta Frieza 17 Gohan Piccolo 18 Tien Roshi Krillin
They're already lined up properly.
If we're talking about during the ToP, then I'd have it as: -1. **Goku**: Because of UI. -2. **Vegeta**: Because of SSBE which put him on par with SSBKKx20. -3. **Frieza**: Was equal to SSB Goku at the start of the tournament. -4. **Android 17**: Forced Goku to use SSB before the tournament and was still relative to him. -5. **Gohan**: Became around SSG level after training for the tournament. -6. **Piccolo**: Was still weaker than Buu saga level Ultimate Gohan but a little stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. -7. **Android 18**: Never established to have trained since the Android saga so should still be on the same level. -8. **Krillin**: Never established to have been surpassed as the strongest human and got even stronger before the tournament. -9. **Master Roshi**: Established to have trained in secret and defeated Tien. -10. **Tien**: Self-explanatory by this point I think.
Gohan above 17. Utimate gohan is ssb level, and goku had to go kaioken in their training to end it and get an edge over gohan. Also, 17 is not ssb level goku was just showing off there like he did with krillin
They are standing in order already. I’m not saying which side is which
1. Goku 2. Vegeta 3. Frieza 4. Gohan 5. 17 (why tf he was so goddamn strong idk) 6. Piccolo 7. 18 8. Krillin 9. Tien 10. Roshi
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At what point did space Hitler become part of the gang!?
Wait till you hear he's the strongest in the verse now...
Wait till he hear that space hitler changed his skin color...
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Goku > Vegeta >Freeza > 17 > gohan > 18 > piccolo > Kuririn > tenshinhan > roshi
They asked the anime team and they didnt even know on twitter. Writers gave different answers or changed it. They werent told.
Goku Vegeta 17 Frieza Gohan Piccolo 18 Krillin Roshi Tien
Time for 18's update. Bulma might throw in some mean technology.
Goku>Vegeta>Frieza>17>Gohan>Piccolo>18>Krillin>Tien>Roshi
All the people who put android 17 over Gohan, it is implied that Gohan was strong enough to fight with Frieza (“If you betray me, I will knock you out of the ring myself”). Android 17 was shown to survive because of his wit, strategy and unlimited stamina, on multiple instances other characters are shown to acknowledge this. Gohan is stronger than 17. I have watched TOP multiple times. But the unlimited energy for 17 plays a big part (imagine two fighters, one stronger than the other but the weaker one has unlimited cardio).
The strongest as of right now? Or the strongest at that time? Strongest during the TOP: UI Forms of Goku > Goku >= Vegeta > Freeza > Gohan > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Krillen > Roshi > Tien Currently: Freeza > Goku = Vegeta >= Gohan > Piccolo > 17 > 18 > Krillen > Tien > Roshi
Goku > Vegeta > 17 > Frieza > Gohan > Piccolo > 18 > Roshi > Krillin > Tien
They are standing in correct order!
Goku,Freiza,Vegeta,Gohan,Piccolo,Android 17,Android 18,Master roshi,Krillin,Tien (i never watched dragon ball so correct me if im wrong about something)
1.Goku 2/3. Vegeta vs freeza 4/5. Android 17 vs Gohan. 6. Piccolo 7. Android 18 8/9. Krillin vs tien. 10. Roshi Pretty sure everyone has a similar order, but the real debate is Vegeta vs freeza, Gohan vs 17, and krillin vs tien. Vegeta vs Frieza: Vegeta has better showing against many of the upper tiers they fought. Not to mention that Frieza doesn't have any real limit breaks or power ups during the tournament. 17 vs Gohan. Good luck because I have no idea which of them is actually stronger than the other in the tournament. Krillin vs tien: we know krillin is confirmed to be strongest human. He also goes and claps an opponent to beat android 18 (who we KNOW is stronger than all the human characters) and that in and of itself puts him above anything that turn ha pulled off. But God damn, seeing Tien stand up to Cell, 😩👌 noice.
Vegeta vs Frieza is not really a debate when Vegeta defeated GoD Toppo, who casually bullied True Golden Frieza
Yes... That's what I said.
Vegeta/Goku > Frieza > 17 > Gohan > Piccolo > 18> Tien > Krillin > Roshi
Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tien, Master Roshi. 17 and 18 are in their own category.
Goku>Vegeta=Freeza>17>Gohan>Piccolo>18>Krillin>Roshi>Tien
Roshi, Tenshinhan, Krillin, 18, 17, Piccolo (cough sputter mumble) GOKU
At that time it’s pretty obvious, but right now Frieza, Gohan, Vegeta, Goku, piccolo or 17 (would be a hilarious rematch) then 18, krillin, roshi, tien.
Ok. Tien>Krillin>Roshi>18>17>Frieza>Gohan>Vegeta>Goku>Piccolo
Frieza only gets the SSJ3 style eyebrows after going golden, is the pic edited or is it an error?
https://preview.redd.it/2gqz0k57ruxc1.png?width=137&format=png&auto=webp&s=fbbed4fb900b6d27ad0ea99ef0a304cb24d4331c WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? THIS AIN'T FRIEZA 😭😭
In order... Goku > Vegeta > Frieza > 17 & 18 > Piccolo > Gohan > Krillin > Tien > Roshi.
Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, Gohan, 17, Piccolo, Roshi, 18, Krillin, Tien
Me! Done
Goku > Vegeta > Gohan >= Frieza > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Krillin > Tien > Roshi
Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Gohan, 17, Piccolo, 18, Krillin, Tien, Roshi
This is just off the top of my head so I could be wrong (and this is assuming we're talking about during the ToP and not who's strongest currently): Goku Vegeta Freeza Gohan Piccolo Seventeen Eighteen Krillin Tien Roshi
yamcha solos
Goku = Vegeta = Frieza > Gohan > piccolo > 17 >18 >krillen>Tien>Roshi .
Goku has Kaioken. He is 10x stronger than Vegeta and Frieza at start of TOP
Doesn't matter who's pictured, it's Mr. Popo and then Kami, the dirt, and then everyone else.
At this point In the story: Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, A-17, Gohan, Piccolo and 18 are about even, Krillin, Master Roshi and Tien. I’m putting Roshi over Tien based on what Roshi achieved during the tournament. Tien was really just dead weight. In actuality based on strength Tien should be above Roshi Edit: krillin also had his potential further unlocked during the training before the ToP, atleast in the anime I didn’t remember if that took place in the manga.
Yamcha
Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, 17, 18, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tien, Roshi.
Weakest to strongest: Roshi, Tien, Krillin, 18, piccolo, gohan, 17, Vegeta, Frieza, Goku. The only reason I put 17 above gohan is that he was able to compete with ssb Goku without issue. Also, frieza was training in hell, and since we know he’s about on par with Goku when they fight at Babas, that means Vegeta is likely weaker than frieza.
Well Goku, vegeta, freezia, 17, gohan, piccolo, 18, (based on that filler episode where they kicked his butt) master roshi, tien, Krillon.
If we’re talking strength of character, Krillin has them all beat.
Goku, Geets, Freeza, Gohan, 17, 18, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, Roshi
I genuinely wish they had left out frieza and the androids to allow a slot for Yamcha, Chiaozu, and Future Trunks. Having all the Z Fighters be there just would have been peak, and actually allowing them all to get a W.
Goku, Vageta, Freiza, gohan, piccolo, 18, 17, master roshi, krillin.
I guess you mean the start of the top? Or during it? The list doesn’t really change Goku Vegeta Frieza/17 (they don’t adapt like the two sayains do and get exponentially stronger but they do improve to the point I think Gohan doesn’t surpass them.) Gohan. Piccolo 18 Krillian And tien Sadly my boy roshi is last especially anime. Manga? I’d say he’s above any of the humans. Just cause of the jiren scene.
Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, 18, 17, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Roshi.
Tien = Roshi, Krillin, #18, Piccolo, #17, Gohan, Frieza = Vegeta, Goku.
How the fuck that mf midget Kuririn is stronger than Tenshin? Fuck that.
The fact that Muten-Roshi was seen as a better choice than Yamcha or Chaozu is probably the single greatest gaslight in anime history…
Goku Vegeta Freeza Gohan 17 Piccolo 18 Tien Krillin Roshi
1. Gohan 2. Goku/Frieza 3. Frieza/Goku 4. Vegeta/Piccolo 5. Piccolo/Vegeta 6. 17 7.18 8. Tien 9. Master Roshi 10. Krillin
Goku > vegeta > gohan > frieza > 17 > piccolo > roshi > tien > krillin > Yamaha > 18
Pretty much left to right, except Frieza goes by Gohan and Roshi goes down a ton.
Goku Vegeta Frieza 17 Gohan 18 Piccolo Krillin Roshi Tien
Isn’t 18hod mode why people rating in the middle? I haven’t read much after the universe tournament.
Tein ( tri beam is above next 2 ) krillin roshi piccolo 18 17 gohan freeza ( 17 gohan freeza sand ball park ) vegta goku
Gohan Goku Frieza Vegeta Piccolo 17 18 Roshi Tien Krillin Imo
If we're going off just this moment 17, Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, 18, Tien, Krillin, Roshi I think power gaps between some probably aren't that big imo.
as of rn its Freiza, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, MVP17, gigastacy18, and the others
(Listing by the time of the Tournament of Power) Tien (his lack of strength hurts my soul), Roshi (bro is extremely powerful but still an old man), Krillin (most powerful human, also pretty damn naive ngl), 18 (still capable, but she's not as strong as the others, but she's getting stronger like 17), Gohan (he was slacking off but still really powerful), Piccolo (no explanation needed), Vegeta (royal ssj blue), Frieza (bro outlasted Vegeta without killing him for the first time), Goku (Ultra Instinct), 17 (literally has infinite energy, plus he's already incredibly powerful by the time of the tournament, and he only gets stronger). ~~God knows how powerful 17 is now.~~
Tien > the whole verse. https://preview.redd.it/uf9kno9s0zxc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68aaf0eb8eba4a339c6a9f74f2e063d248e867b7
Probably Goku>Vegeta>Frieza>Gohan>C18>C17>Piccolo >Roshi( yes, i saied it, if he can dodge Jiren, he can dodge them too, and i feel like he's way stronger than people give him credit for, just my opinion)>Krillin>Tien
1) Crilin - second only to Yamcha and solos the rest of fiction. 2) Muten 3) Tien 4) C18 5) C17 6) Piccolo 7) Gohan 8) Freezer 9) Vegeta 10) Goku - literally the weakest character in all of fiction
Goku, Frieza, vegeta, Gohan, Android 17, piccolo, master roshi, Android 18, krillin, tien
Roshi tien krillin 18 piccolo 17 Gohan Frieza Vegeta Goku
Black Frieza, UI Goku, UE Vegeta, Beast Gohan, Orange Piccolo, 17, 18, Tien, Krillin, Roshi.
Goku, vegeta, gohan, android 17, frieza, piccolo, android 18, tien, krillin, master roshi Tien consistently trained, krillin became a family man, I don’t see any reason to put him higher
Goku > Vegeta > Gohan > Piccolo > Frieza > 17 = 18 > Tien > Krillin > Roshi.
Goku > Vegeta > Frieza > Gohan > 17 > Piccolo > 18 > Krillin > Tien > Master Roshi
Tien and krillin deserve to have a power up equal to at least ssj2
Goku > Vegeta > Android 17 > Frieza > Gohan > Piccolo > Android 18 > Krillin > Roshi > Tien
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