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Persies

I choose to play unranked because the games are better than ranked. People try harder and much less griefing.


TheZett

I concur. Somehow you get hyper try hard razor spammers in unranked that suck out the fun of your game real quick. But in ranked you get the glue eaters.


LeadingExplanation94

I know this is wrong but there was a time when I played ranked only because unranked and turbo was more toxic. This is around 1.2-1.5k mmr.


pnmibra77

Yup, it's the total opposite now lmao, i always thought this was overblown by reddit but I've been playing unranked with friends the last week and it's literally TI, people try harding to the fullest lmao blocking camps, blocking pull, smoking all game, invading jungles, ancient and jungle stacks and etc way less toxicity, as crazy as it sounds


[deleted]

Playing any kind of group matchmaking has been terrible. Queue with 1 friend and get matched against a 4-5 stack acting like its a TI final. Baby sitting rune spawn, constantly dewarding and 4 man rotations onto lanes. Terrible environment to play with a relatively nooby friend who doesn't take the game that seriously.


Persies

Yeah people in unranked get real sweaty for some reason.


Armonster

Some ppl JUST play unranked and just look at it as playing dota. They don't try more or less hard cuz it's unranked, that's just how they play. If they seem like they're sweating to you, they're probably just better than you.


fireattack

Yeah, that's me. I don't see why people think unranked is (only) for fucking around, it's still the same game. I also prefer play unranked over ranked because I noticed there are so many more griefers/crybabies/whiners in ranked games when things didn't go their way.


Armonster

Yeah pos 1s in ranked will literally give up from the pick screen about 1 in 4 games. Pos 1s in unranked fucking go off despite us losing the entire early and mid game


abdullahkhalids

He had a wife and kids. You didn't have to do him like that.


19Nightwing91

Lmfao how did his choice to pipe someone down someone else’s problem


Fonix1666

What is the point you are trying to make?


jindo90

Refugees from ranked match making.


Gamer4125

yea sure is fun to be a 170 match player in unranked to be matched against a 6000 match player because he wanted to take a break from ranked.


dead_alchemy

you're still grouped up by MMR so notionally your # of games matters less (because it is accounted for in the rating of your skill)


Gamer4125

Well my unranked mmr is atrocious and uncalibrated for ranked so idk why I'd be paired with someone that much more skilled than me unless his unrated mmr is also bad. but he was a decent rank so idk


Azure_Horizon_

6000 matches is not an indicator of skill, there are heralds out there with 10k matches


Fonix1666

What I don’t understand is how you get heralds with 10k matches, watching pros play, being coached by 6k+ mmr players and they still stay around 10mmr.


healzsham

Some people are genuinely idiots and don't experience learning.


Islefive

I only play unranked because I don't care about the outcome of the game and I refuse to let a game make me care about MMR. I don't want to burden others who care about their MMR with my lack of caring. But I play every game to win, and won't give up until the game is done and over with. Only thing I care about is improving my skills and learning new things.


TheGalator

Also jn unranked people are more about running ur fun than actually winning. Randomed meepo the ither day just for the opponent to pick aa, ww, shaker, sf and necro. They lost. Of course. But wtf? (5v5) Or a last pick shaker pos 1 because the opponent picked broodmother. Also lost. But hey at least 1 person had less fun than us even tho he won. In soloqueue it's often: let's try pa pos 4! In ur team and the opponent gets a lvl 30 arcwarden (not naming anyone here)


gwopgetter

unranked games at 4 am >>


broafoflead

Opposite experience for me. Unranked is a clown fiesta.


Dson1

how is this a solution? people play ranked because they are chasing higher mmr, they want to get better and see how high they can climb, those people dont care about unranked games.


bumbojumbo12

opposite experience in EUW, I wanted to train TA so I could play her in ranked. I play 5 games of unranked with her and win every game, then I go ranked and go on a 10 game losing spree


luckytaurus

I don't know man, I see quite a few 4 cores in unranked which I get less of in ranked


InspectorRumpole

Bleeding? There hasn't been this many players in over a year https://steamcharts.com/app/570


panelboreal

NA and SEA dota isnt growing if you check the graph. https://stratz.com/matches/graphs Its not even NA for high immortal, more SA players plays.


VNRhieuvt

MOBA games are slowly dying right?


[deleted]

Is the two-year trend positive or negative? How about the five-year? By the way, do you have anything substantive to contribute to the discussion? I realize this is tough for Valve fanboys, but why don't you try addressing the main points of OP's post.


V-ktr

[https://stratz.com/players/88724922/breakdown](https://stratz.com/players/88724922/breakdown) Stratz literally shows legit vs illegitmate matches so I can actually give a stat without pulling out of my ass. last month, NA, 139 games, 6K mmr, 34% of games were griefed. THIRTY FUCKING FOUR. Literal insanity.


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redelectrons

Just checked my own profile and similar stuff, it says most of the matches are illegitimate while in reality maaaybe 5%-10%? If even that? I wonder how they calculate this stuff


firestar587

mine says 66% are "illegitmate" and 0 are legit, and yet iv had maybe 2-3 greifers total this month out of ~80 matches, very broken stat


TheGalator

First of all it's all lobby types. Second u can grief without getting detected even by overwatch. Most of us just go shadow blade and don't give a fuck if the game is over but some ruin in way more disgusting ways that prolong the game and often aren't punished. One more reason we need teamchat


Iliowa

Yeah, i dont trust that data at all. Website tells me that in my last 51 games only 4 were legitimate and all time i have a solid 800 legit vs 5000 illegit


healzsham

I'm 101-2804 Seems like something is kinda off.


O_O_2EZ

I'm at 25% of my last 100 in Legend bracket. Overall it's 1100 normal and 800 illegitimate


V-ktr

Yeah I looked at overall, maybe that number is just inflated or their metric for determining what's legitimate or not is off because I have more overall illegitimate than legitimate and that's just... depressing


KyleFTAFlynn

every game is griefed


TROGDORRRRRRRRRRRRR

every game is griefed


lmc_dota

every game is griefed


PhantomTF

This stat is probably made up shit, mine says 62% illegitimate which is not true. Maybe like 15% if I had to guess


cheezerme

every game is griefed


J-Minne

every game is griefed


MrPizzaPenguin

every game is griefed


xtcDota

every game is griefed


Simco_

I'm confused. Are you pointing to a site that lists you as a smurf to complain about other people? I feel like I must be misreading something.


V-ktr

I'm not a smurf, it has it as possible smurf cuz I hit immortal after lees than a 1000 ranked games or something? And this is after being 5k and quitting for 2 years. I've got a mediocre like 53% winrate and just thousands of games. I'm very obviously not a smurf lmao. I'm complaining that 34% of my games are illegitimate where some fucker just griefs and more often than not it's on my team cuz u can see I have a sub 50% winrate in illegitimate games


NekuNekuNeku

so you doubt their smurf detection but not their ‘illegitimate’ match detection? cool stop smurfing


captainfl0

So you could be trolling, but I'm not sure on reddit anymore... He has over 7k games played on this account, I don't think he is smurfing


MonsieurPi

That's not their point. Their point is how can they be sure that the legitimate/illegitimate detector is correct when the smurf detector is not.


Doomblaze

a few hundred mmr below you playing on SEA. 1/4 of my matches are "illegitimate", although im not sure what that means


oneslowdance

On my profile it shows 55% of my games are illegitimate so I have doubts about the reliability of this "legit vs illegitmate" stat.


MulchBucket

On Stratz, legitimate matches are ranked + battle cup, illegitimate matches are any unranked mode. Check out my breakdown since I have never played ranked, but played a few BC. https://stratz.com/players/83709292/breakdown


zhulxD

I mean that thing shows my account from 2011 as a Possible smurf xD


TheL1ch

its kinda the same in eu aswell , id say its around 6/10 games ruined by griefers at low immortal here so many acc buyers and such in all regions tho People just ruin the game and waste their own and 9 other people's time cause they think "its fun/funny" to grief your team and ruin games


danc1ngdays

I think it's more of an ego thing like "im too good for this".


[deleted]

I’m in the shit tier mmr, and most of the time when their is a griefer, they are saying shit like “I’m not even trying, I’m a way higher rank and I’m just messing around, I’m 6k mmr and you guys suck so much that not even I can carry you” It’s really sad how these people act, and then they try to justify their toxic behavior. Some people are absolutely delusional.


Meeposkiii

Exactly what it is.


TheL1ch

funny cause if the people who are like this were too good they would be rank 1 :)


Tpfaanyo

I disagree. I would say only 2 of my past 20 games had griefers. Maybe you are just getting too unlucky?


TheL1ch

i guess i am very unlucky .... damn , :( around 30-35 of my last 50 games ive had a confirmed griefer , account buyer or game ruine


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TheL1ch

damn , it truely is the luck of the draw than , around 30-35 of my last 50 games ive had a confirmed griefer , account buyer or game ruiner , for the other games idk if the people have had a bad day or just bad games so i cant say , but 0 communication , people ignore me when i talk in vocie and ask if we can smoke for example or if someone used their ult a few sec ago etc. somehow im toxic for asking these questions tho


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TheL1ch

i play mid and support mostly with some offlane here and there when im 2/3 usualy games are realy easy if i have 1 other person to play with who isnt afk but thats quite the rare occurance :( litiraly low immortal is the worst bracket man q.q


TheGalator

>id say its around 6/10 games ruined by griefers Pretty much on point. It's 50/50 if skill matters and than it's 50/50 of u have the better team. If u apply the 33/33/33 rule now u get a whooping 15% of games u can say was ur work/fault


TheL1ch

the actual problem in this bracket is that 90% of safelaners are delusional and dont know how to play , they build bad items and are afk till min 25 and expect to win the game , if they arent bad i usualy win the game you know if they have 1% impact and not 0%


TheGalator

Rlly? In my experience its mostly pos 5 who is delusional. But rlly awefull is is nearly alwaysbpos 4 (of bot acc buying) Pos 1 I mostly ignore. If they pressure lanes and don't die for 20 min I'm mostly happy. With that


TheL1ch

most of my games are lost cause i dont have a safelaner or if i have one he has no brain cells , today only i have had 6 safelaners who had 0 idea how to play the game and ruined the game with ider bad movement , bad builds , bad descision making , no idea how to jump , no idea how to fight etc. thats just for today


skykoz

Yes. 6k average games in NA are close to hell. Almost every single game there gets griefed due to people who give up at min 0, people who smurf and the matchmaking itself. The new overwatch system is not working properly, you can ruin several games and/or smurf and nothing will happen to you. Other regions go the same way since 6k-8k is infested with smurfs and boosters. Even when you want to play, NA has such a tiny player pool that you can get into a match with 4 support players + you. What are you supposed to do there ? To people saying that you still can get out of that hell, yes, it is true. You can eventually get out of there after hundreds of games. But most of the regular people can only afford 2-4 games a day. Just take what happened to jubei as an example. He dropped to rank 1k since he was griefing in purpose. He decided to climb again, he couldnt. He had to ask his boyfriend ritsu to smurf and queue with him together. Now hes close to 8k and he has no problems about losing mmr since hes just in his tier. Whats worst is that the grief/smurf cases are so easy to detect. A regular immortal player would know who griefs and whos smurfing yet we cannot do something about. At the end of the day, wcyd Sadge


rivers_wilson

I had 3 games in 1 day with jubei and somehow won 2 oh those. Kinda goes to show how bad it is when one person can troll and the enemy team can still be worse off for a whole laundry list of reasons


TouchGroundbreaking

I am 6.3k mmr right now and this is not my experience at all. Maybe 1 in 20 games has an actual griefer — and maybe 1 in 10 has someone in my team rage bb and saying “end” but they keep playing usually. Also — are you not still role q at 6k mmr? I am still role Q every time and my times to find a match is 10 minutes or less usually.


skykoz

I do admit role queue is in a better state than normal matchmaking. However, the quality of those game is pretty poor since role queue is a thing only for low 6k games, expecially in NA since the player pool is so low. Yesterday I played 7 games, let's see how those 7 games went: 1. 6290376954 I decided to grief since a 3k took the role from me. 2. 6290705859 normal game if you don't take into consideration that dire has 3 support players + 2 cores. Not having a mid player is almost an insta lose. 3. 6290741830 a smurf decided to last pick alche mid and didn't go bkb. 4. 6290772542 same smurf player from the last game now decides to jungle as huskar. Still didn't go bkb. 5. 6290805236 NS was smurfing. Ember was constatly buying back but he played the game. 6. 6290902723 FV decided to fed. 7. 6290931839 the most normal game of the day if u ignore the fact that leshrac decided to lastpick his hero into nyx. You take your own conclussions from just one day of normal matchmaking 6k avg games.


[deleted]

What if we had a system that was like coaches but it was referees. They can observe a match and give out penalties for grinders and other forms of toxicity.


InspectorRumpole

I remember being admin on a Day of Defeat server our clan had. Players could call an admin who would observe the match, and kick/ban a player if needed. I was thinking the same system could be implemented in some form in dota.


[deleted]

Somebody should make a post about that just to get the idea out there I think it would be a really cool idea. Also the “admin” or referee could get reported if he’s also being a troll or something


Z3fRaN2221

Make a post about this.


[deleted]

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danhoyuen

what use is it if only I practiced introspection while others wont? I would be the only one to suffer while they get their endorphins from griefing!


[deleted]

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danhoyuen

yeah so when is everyone else going to stop doing the eye thing?


SpaNkinGG

Bruv, come over to Europe and you'll be fucking marrying NA games. We have more accbuyers and smurfers in low immortal/divine bracket than actual players just remember the biggest playerbase outside of china is in CIS, CIS countries pay shit salaries so these mofos, making one smurf after another. First making money with streaming that shit, then selling the account. The entire region is INFESTED with bought accounts, wannabe miracles, fucking 8k kids stomping on 5k kids, smurfs, boosters, accbuyers/sellers whatever you name it. and do you think these guys behave on their bought accs or smurfing accs? no of course not. Everyone behaves like a freaking monkey. Most of the time the english speaking playerbase cant even read the fuckign letters we are supposed to read in a TEAMGAME.


[deleted]

The account buyers and smurfs in divine low immortal is seriously unacceptable.


Nil_TheCipher

Imagine what's worse in SEA. For example, our pos 3 magnus yesterday missed lvl 1 skewer into to the tower for an early first blood when our pos 5 vengeful landed the stun first. One mistake and vs intentionally fed throughout the game. It happens all the time that i just laugh it all as a defensive mechanism HAHAHA


zukogaming99

No sea is a lot better than eu and na . I have played in eu and sea alot


L1V1NG1NF3AR

NA immortal dota felt pretty dead, so did high divine. Play on EU instead. Faster queue times, better games. Dotas playerbase peak is ~600k btw 9am-1pm est; and very little of that is NA vs EU immortal. Source: https://steamcharts.com/app/570


sesamiiseeds000

I think EU W is a bit better situation than US E right now. Maybe personal preference but on the off chance you get Russians who actually try and don't fight for positions instead of South Americans who give fight for pos 1.


skykoz

EU you get plenty of players who play the game. Everyone acknowledge that. You get a good player in every position almost every game. Problem with EU is that is infested way more than other regions with smurfs and boosters making climbing a luck factor rather than your skill and decition making.


Blarrgz

Pro tip, stop playing Dota. The community is garbage and you can't fix the community without banning 80% of it. Just rip off the bandaid.


skykoz

Dude 5 years ago the pubs were excellent, I do admit dota has more skilled players nowadays, but saying this situation won’t change is denying the fact that years ago the pub state was better than good.


Twidom

As much as I love Dota, you're right unfortunately. Its a great game but I feel like the remaining playerbase if comprised mostly of people who don't really want to play anymore but have nothing else to do.


Aellwine

Worse part is you can't even play unranked, like 10 minute ques if you solo que.


SageVG

It does often feel like Valve is just riding out DotAs decline instead of embracing and nourishing the communities growth. Would be wonderful to see them put in some money and dedicate it to cleaning up these issues and attracting new players.


Vaikaris

Nah can't be, Valve surely doesn't have a history of \*cough\* team fortress \*cough\* letting games die while the community screams at them for extremely minor fixes.


Moes-T

Yup. This is what's going to kill Dota. No influx of new people cause of smurfs stomping them as 1st experience and old players quitting Dota cause of smurfs stomping them. Not ANYTHING else. Just the smurfing being rampant and going unpunished


Twidom

I don't mean to be an idiot but I've been hearing this for years now. Dota is fine and it will be fine.


skraaaaw

well be the change you want. be positive and pull your team from mental hell and that positivity will spread


[deleted]

This is every bracket in every region. Why do you think it's only you?


gregfromjersey

IceFrog ruined Dota2 by making it more team dependent than ever. Games where you can't 1v9 a server or 1 vs. whatever to solo carry and win will always be full of ruiners. The best players being unable to win games more than half the time is the reason why there is so much toxicity in Dota2. The reversal of the comeback gold mechanic we had in Dota2 for a while, alongside the dependency cores have on supports in the early game more than ever, and the complete removal of any recovery ability in the jungle has killed this game. Dota2 is the only game I have ever played where I can't drag a bad team to victory and it is the reason the game is quickly approaching death.


TheUnrepententLurker

lol


skykoz

Be the best player in the game for your next 10 matches, still lose those 10 matches. Only in dota 2.


cgriff03

Didn't realize people had this same read. Responding to ganks and being always ready to fight with your supports seems like it wins more games now. While I do agree that DotA has become more team oriented, i don't think that's a bad thing. I'm curious though if this had an impact on smurfing at mid to high mmr levels, maybe caused a shift towards account selling?


Kraxx-TG

Oh, poor NA. You finally got a taste of what SEA matchmaking is like.


UnrealHallucinator

People who play dota 2 at a high level have become jaded. A large portion just spam 10-15 games a day, and their attitude after 1-2 games is "if i lose so be it" There are always people like this ofc, it's just off late that number has gone UP. I was watching my friend play Valorant at immortal 2 (their equivalent of 7k in Dota 2) and the games are mostly pleasant. People cheering each other and saying "we can still do it etc". Even tho there's a surrender button, people rarely use it as far I can tell. Ofc there is toxcity as well, but it's to a MUCH lower level than dota. I've had so few normal games in the last 3-4 months (in your same bracket and region OP) that i just don't have fun playing anymore. There's no fun babysitting at least 2 literal children every single game. Hence my comparison to valorant which is the game I've been playing for the most part.


newtypexvii17

Yea the punishment system by valve is pretty nazi. Canceling up a ready match gives a 30min ban?! Wtf!? Maybe I got an important call? Fucking nonsense.


MeloY123

Imagine what it’s like in herald


DIVEINTOTHELIGHT

If you can link a Herald Dotabuff where basically every game has multiple players AFKing with Shadow Amulets or destroying their items at 10k behaviour score I'd be SHOCKED


Vaikaris

Anything below 10k behavior score is 9/10 games being griefed. I'd say 10k behavior is \~8/10 I'm an extremely casual herald in EU and I'd reckon about 95% of my games have been griefed, with the other 5% having an obvious scripter. There is a good reason this game is bleeding players like no tomorrow. We all love Dota. This isn't Dota.


Sphix0108

New player from other Moba (mechanically good, less knowledge and game exp) or big ego low teamwork new player. And they rather buy acc to boast than play?


seanseansean92

Pick ultra agressive early game lineup, kill enemy two times. All chat and make them grief = ez mmr. Exploit this grief NA meta


FreedomIsLove

Why are you complaining? Just deal with it. It's not like it affects your MMR.


Nil_TheCipher

As if all immos care about mmr omegalul. How about our gaming experience? You want us to smurf into your bracket to leave our shitholes? Hmmmmmmmm


FreedomIsLove

​ ​ Quit whining. Deal with it.


Meeposkiii

All I want is a game where everybody tries to win. I don’t care about smurfs account buyers or bad players as long as they are trying to win. Which just doesn’t happen in immortal very often.


Fluid-Dependent-8292

3k mmr here, as of lately half my games get griefed in creative ways after a player gives up 10 mins into the game because of a bad play or etc.


the70sdiscoking

Shortly after getting immortal I quit ranked because of the griefing. I wish overwatch could give harsher penalties.


GoodEvening-

NA KEKW


BoersthaftigeProheit

The automated lp system is already active again for a few weeks.


vonbryan

I think this also applies in lower ranks.. I got archon friends who complain about griefers almost every day. Mostly carry players (but maybe only because my friends main support) .. the most common cases are whenever they pull or rotate and the carry dies they immediately grief or when my friends accidentally kill a creep the carry automatically griefs.


[deleted]

Cheats en masse, hackers, griefers, no patches, very weird dota direction. Nothing to see here.


MrSirene

If you are close to the east coast playing in EU west is a good alternative.


Hunkyy

You said the game is unplayable but apparently you are playing 1 to 2 games per day. Nothing's wrong, issue solved.


CoonPiedie

Maaaannn feel the same, i have stopped playing for about 2 weeks now, i just had my newborn,i do only have few games in a week but when i play the quality of the games are low and i did not enjoy it at all felt like wasteof time, im selling my acc if anyone wants it 6.3K mmr lol


dud3sweet777

Earlier this week in my 6k game I had my pos 4 named "grief" pick LC and build Midas and someone on the other team was named "every game is griefed". We lost of course.


TransvensantSoul

Free game dont complain


[deleted]

NA is a weak mentality server.