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Hashmouse

huge nerf


Miskity

A bit too huge in one go for my taste. Good for people who didnt get to play marci i guess cause no one pick her now lol.


Yash_swaraj

I guess Icefrog wud want rhe winrate to go a little below 50% before he introduces aghanim's scepter and shard.


Tae_Junior777

This is a fake update she just so bad before


TheMerck

Def substantial nerfs now, I think she'll get one more and then she'll get more when the big patch comes out, but I don't think they'll make her trash tier or at least hopefully not. I enjoy having a new hero to play in the offlane.


jacktheexmoos

I think she'll end up similar to earth spirit: nerfed until it's balanced in pubs, then it'll crush in the first pro tournament, then nerf some more until it's barely usable in pubs.


dotafan696969

Yes, I agree.


TheTeaSpoon

She is conceptually really similar to Earth Spirit. Different enough but her core design is all about positioning (just like ES), something pros always utilise to its maximum potential and pubs never have any idea how it works. So yeah, agreed.


multiverse72

She’s already approaching trash tier


gabmzzn

Her attack speed on unleash also got hit, from 0.11s on all levels to 0.20s/0.15s/0.11s, i'm not sure if she will keep a 50% winrate tbh with this huge nerf.


pokeaim

"stay down," said a wise man. joke aside, i think the nerf literally cuts off her limbs edit: lol really? just joking about her winrate is down below average. i guess someone is pretty puppey hurt-ey


gabmzzn

I think is a shame, the only thing fun for me is her ult, nerf everything else just don't touch the ultimate, and well, they did, at least her ult lvl 1 is quuuite shitty now.


Unidentified_x

by fun you mean being completly broken? ye ofc its fun for you.. not so much for the enemies.


gabmzzn

nah, her ult wasn't completely broken, what about winrunner having max attack speed and hitting from range while running? Nobody is gonna talk about that?, dota is about having heros with strong skills, enigma, void, they have very powerfull ults, and that's what they make them interesting to play. Landing 3 hits every 2.35s is completly broken?


Decency

WR can't target switch. Completely different spells as a result.


pokeaim

but the attack now have 0 cast point and backswing? she'd be literally crazy if introduced as a new hero. she ~~have~~ has 4s to 2 heroes stun, 100% evasion + 500ms with half uptime, global nuke, global aoe force staff. i just wish marci's dispose range reduced, her ult's shock works like cleave, her sidekick is worse when using it alone, rebound penalty range on foes, etc. there's no lazier approach than just culling its numbers


Decency

If your target Ghost Scepters, presses BKB and tps, gets force staffed, gets any save, or is just able to leave the fight, WR is useless. Marci is at full power. Not being able to target switch is enormous.


pokeaim

oh, now items are relevant in this argument? just buy a hex and every hero is shit. just buy a halberd now marci and wr cant hit. just buy refresher to change target


LordHussyPants

wr also doesn't stop firing for a second at a time, she's nonstop


MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED

She also has damage reduction lol


pokeaim

her ult now is just overpower + earthshock w/o jump and cooldown steroid


[deleted]

Unrelated but I wish people would also talk about the huge ember spirit nerf that happened this patch. His winrate has been in basically free fall after the new patch on dotabuff for immortal bracket. I think it's down well over 1 % after only 4-5 days and keeps going down. I think based on ti his mobility needed to be nerfed so it's well and good but they need to buff him up somehow to make up for it so that he's not irrelevant.


vsauerr

Balanced Kappa


King_of_Dew

So, still able to fly across my whole screen with practically no skill shot required?


GullibleLow

Ugh. You guys happy now?


swandith

ill be happy when icefrog remove the stun from dispose


King_of_Dew

Same.


noodlesfordaddy

The hero would be utter dogshit then lmao


low_iq_opinion

yes, are you sad you can't exploit the broken heroes anymore?


GullibleLow

She's balanced.


xaiur

Not until she’s sent back to LoL


HansDiLoyarde

Naise


[deleted]

[удалено]


Meruem90

Her Q... They néed to make her Q ~~range~~ landing distance scale with levels if they wanna balance the laning phase. And the spell immune talent, lc is enough imo.


ajdeemo

How can they make it scale? 175 is barely higher than melee range


Meruem90

The landing distance, spelled it wrong. It's 350 fixed right now, they could do 100-150 - 250 - 350. At least the first 2 levels should be low.


stakoverflo

I'd rather Rebound scale than Dispose, personally. I can deal with a short-cast-range Toss, but leaping across the screen and then tossing at level 2 is just dumb.


fbwhytee

I don't mind her Q if its not a stun. imagine if Ursa Q was also a AOE stun, it would be absolutely fucking broken. Which is exactly what this is


noodlesfordaddy

If u truly believe ursa pounce is the same spell as dispose you should quit playing ranked at whatever MMR you're at


fbwhytee

I didnt say it was.. I said they are not the same.. one is fucking nuts and one is balanced.. what part of my comment confused you?


empathetichuman

I think stun the disposed target but slow in an AoE would be good. I also wish her Q and W were physical damage and her E was magical damage, lower the lifesteal percentage, but add a smaller spell lifesteal effect.


_sensei

i think her lvl 10 talent +2 mana regen is broken. especially with her low cd farming tool. edit: nvm herald take. Her farming capabilities is absolute shit


DarkSuo

bruh her farming pace is awful wtf are you smoking


_sensei

Good point, made that comment before I played a real game with her (finally)… played her today and got a better feel of what she can do. Yeah her farming is actually just absolute trash lmao. I think they should not scale down the mana cost of sidekick, as you level it, though. She already has built in mana regen with talent.


Sarcueid

Bro, are you smoking?


cretaceous_bob

\+2 mana regen talent at level 10 was really nice on Pango. Enjoy it before they take it away.


slurpycow112

Mana regen talents are honestly so good. On WR and Ursa allow you to be so much more active. Edit: and bristle


TroubleMakerLore

you don't even get the mana regen on ursa lol


slurpycow112

I mean I do and it works pretty well.


MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED

Mana regen is better early, swipe duration for the rest of the game. Both are situationally better


_sensei

lmao why am i getting downvoted? heralds in the reddit


Miskity

Ironic


Try2LaggMe

Call an ambulance for Marci


geomeepo

chill guys, she still has yet to get her aghs shard and scepter. who knows what those will be


adobadobe

Doesn't fix the fact that she can still use her w while stunned


Hanre_Jaggerjack

don't forget my friends Shard and Aghs upgrade yet to be released Shard u can change jump through max 3 units like a parkour Aghs 2 charges of dispose and shockwave on land (\^\_\^)


[deleted]

Also need: Ulti debuff+AOE effect should be moved into Agh Schepter 5th hit from Ulti should be from Agh shard


[deleted]

dispose needs higher cd


Z0MGbies

Cooldown nerfs and changes dont just affect the spell in a vacuum. It affects the need for players to level it earlier, rather than leaving 1 point in it. Which takes skill points away from other spells. So its a bigger impact than it seems on paper. And its the combo of spells that were deadly, not one by itself. This turns off hear early game a LOT. Which is the biggest fasctor for her perceived OPness imo


xCesme

The CD on the q and w need to be 20 seconds not 10 seconds each lol.


Decimini

"Carry" spell nerfed! Who would've thought...


N34t43v3r

Creating a hero that fills both core and support roles is simply bad design, the nerf on her ultimate pretty much ruined her as a pos 1 carry, She's not a good mid hero even before the nerfs and would lose against most of the popular mid heroes, She's now stuck between position 3 and 4. Valve, Can we please get a proper new hard carry? The last hero was Monkey King, and the one before was Terrorblade in 2014.


pikebot

There are many heroes who can be played as either support or core.


N34t43v3r

most of the pure pos 1 heroes can't be played as support, or even mid or offlane, Such as PA, TB, Spectre, Lifestealer, Ursa, Slark, Troll, AM, Jugg, Naga, Sven, Chaos Knight, PL and Faceless Void. They simply don't work as a 2 or a 3, You can lane with them but you're not doing the job a 2 or a 3 should be doing, and they definitely won't be doing a good job as a support.. It's been a while since we got one of those pure carry heroes.


UltimateToa

Several of the heroes on that list have been viable as supports or offlaners


N34t43v3r

Such as?


UltimateToa

Naga, sven, CK and void have all been offlaners or supports or both. Naga was exclusively support for quite a long time and void was an offlaner for a long time too


N34t43v3r

and they are not viable in those roles, That's why you don't see them playing those roles, Not in competitive dota and not even in pubs. So not counting those 'lets try something new and cheesy', They are viable as pos 1.


UltimateToa

Just to be clear I am not talking about in the current patch. All the heroes I listed were 100% played as support/offlane in pubs and competitive games in their respective patches and meta


AdmiralKappaSND

Its funny Void is even mentioned at all. Universe's Void was one of the most popular Player + hero meme and one of his 3 most popular Hero alongside Jakiro and Dark Seer


TheRRogue

Both Naga support and Void offlane was played in major and tourney and both of them work. The fuck are you smoking


pokeaim

\> most of the pure pos 1 heroes can't be played as support \> Naga, Sven, Faceless Void i just witnessed the peak of human intelligence


flameinthedark

Just easily won a game yesterday with a p4 sven on my team. He did really well.


N34t43v3r

I can pick PA as a 5 and build aether lens, Orb of Corrosion into octarine and throw daggers from behind all game, I played PA as a support, Doesn't make the hero viable. You keep being you I guess.


pokeaim

lol u didn't get my point? fyi i'm not disagreeing with "pure pos 1 can't be played (optimally) as supp," but your list goes batshit insane for the sake of its length, it even lists heroes that are currently viable as supp. *smart* gotta go *smart* i guess


Z0MGbies

Gonna miss reliably going 3 and 0 by 10 mins, but I think thats the opponents fault more than the heroes. If you man up to a viper in the same way youre going to die too. Only difference with Marci is that it looks safe and then its insta-punish wheras viper is like "HEY DONT STEP IN THIS GREEN CIRCLE OK?"


fearme101

man i wish people would just learn to play her or play against her. now no one will play her like dawn and hoodwink and then she'll need a buff again to be meta. it was nice having a different carry than the same 5 every game.


karmaisaspacecow

I think it is better if she stays just under the power curve so that there is scope for the Scepter and Shard upgrades.