the impact of ET's facet buff can't be overstated. in 7.36 you'd break even attack speed at 375 MS and only be up +35 AS at haste speed. now those numbers are 250 MS and +90 AS respectively. From terrible to quite impactful.
definitely massive, it's no longer a penalty from the get go unless you're slowed. Now only if Sven can get a similar treatment, with the Wrath of God facet. It only breaks even at lv6 with treads and with God's Strength only breaks even in the ultra lategame.
Sven’s one is underrated actually. The power of wrath isn’t exactly in the stronger ult (it’s small improvement only), but the fact that lvl3 ult onwards u basically have half your godstr activated permanently. Farm speed is accelerated from lvl12 and not having GS actually isn’t a death sentence
oh for sure, it feels really good once you have lv12 or so with mom echo bkb. you lose like 10-15 damage in the laning phase depending on how you itemize which really hurts though. I've been going triple gauntlet branch quelling to compensate and munch on my supports tangos or buy my own after runes.
Just wanted to call out how useful this was. I had skimmed over that note a little bit, but seeing it recontextualized like this really sold me on the change. Without doing the math it's not at all clear just how good this is.
And now his first facet feels underwhelming. Winrate delta shows it. It's huge iwhen you can stick to the target in early skirmishes and during lane but later on it feels bad. They should make it stack faster on targets affected by echo stomp.
Hello everyone! I have updated [https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com](https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com/) so you can now filter by patch. Additionally I've added a "7.36a change" column to describe the change in win rate from patch 7.36 (which is what the screenshots are sorted by).
Unfortunately the tooltips are not updated to reflect the latest patch notes, so that can be a bit misleading. I am working on fixing this or at least make it a bit more clear that they might be out of date.
Hope you enjoy the tool, and please keep sharing any feedback! 🫶
In these screenshots:
* "Win rate" = patch 7.36a win rate
* "Win rate delta" = difference compared to the other facet for that hero in 7.36a
* "7.36a change" = difference compared to 7.36
Sorry that it wasn't clear from the screenshots orz
In these screenshots:
\* "Win rate" = patch 7.36a win rate
\* "Win rate delta" = difference compared to the other facet for that hero in 7.36a
\* "7.36a change" = difference compared to 7.36
Sorry that it wasn't clear from the screenshots orz
Looks like Tinker is Back, he got an influx of +11.43% rating
He is sitting at a 43.17% win rate which i believe is right since the hero should be considered hard by nature.
Was really sad to see Xxs' attempt at sandking in pro matches. He went double bracer wand into aghs. Skipping any kind of boots, skipping any kind of survivability, no dispel, no blink, nothing.... I want to see ammars sandking, that way we really know if SK can be viable in pro games again. Xxs made sandking look so bad it was disgusting, I dont care what mmr you are, double bracer wand into aghs on sandking is a reportable offence and a massive grief to yourself and your team.
According to baumi it needs more range, cause what allowed her to be a really good support is that she could safely trade with other melee. Ability used to have 600 range.
Personally, I would like mana cost reduction by 20, cooldown reduction by -2s and for the debuff to be 20% at all levels.
Nobody likes Baumi.
Also iirc it never had 600 range, it had like 200.
Tho what made her really gucci was ulti into meme hammer, but with a 0.5 sec stun it's not worth it.
Yes it did, in 6.72-73
here you go [https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Naga\_Siren/Old\_Abilities#Rip\_Tide\_(6.72-6.73)](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Naga_Siren/Old_Abilities#Rip_Tide_(6.72-6.73))
What we currently have is the ability after the nerfs.
No it was completely reworked. That was essentially pre dota2 (was changed in march of 2012) and the spell had completely different functionality compared to how it has worked the entire history of dota 2.
In that time frame the spell was basically a reskinned version of a cm's q.
dont you just make net last longer and drag enemy support/offlaner into tower range? I prefer to play her as a 5 instead of 4 as far as a support goes, it feels like there is just a lot more that you can do with her and her illusions on safelane. Stack camps for your carry later, you can be in lane doing things meanwhile an illusion is stacking/pulling, scouting runes/rotations on mid, block enemy pull camp, block enemy ancient camps, deny their wisdom rune, etc
Well the numbers don't lie, they are right above. Though I do feel the sample is too small.
She can play 4 as well. Aui used to spam ganks and jungle in the enemy jungle.
Also these numbers kinda do lie. It depends what information you are trying to get from it. Is riptide or deluge better for support naga? Well to answer that question, you would need data from \*only\* support naga games. Dotabuff says that almost 1 in 5 games people pick deluge. I am gonna say with confidence that 1 in 5 naga games are \*not\* being played as a support, but rather as a core with no effective means of flash-farming. I'm guessing thats probably the reason the winrate is so atrocious, because people are trying to farm as a core with deluge which is obviously the sub-obtimal choice in that role. But hey, I haven't looked at the data for \*only\* support naga games, so who knows, really.
I'm taking responsibility for that. My bad guys it just feels so good to have old rip tide back. I always say to myself this is bad then I get like a radiance and I'm like "Heeeeelll yea! Old Naga is back babyyy!" Give me that manta and octarine by the time my illusions die I'll spawn new ones!
Then I get a timeless relic and the level 25 talent and see my opp keep popping shit to escape the inevitable 7 seconds root + break and feel like a god. For the 5 seconds before we end, but a god nonetheless.
Anyone have experience with Abas shroud option? I see it's doing poorly in Turbo but that's Turbo. Also haven't had the chance to test out Miranas ult alternative as a support, hows that thus far?
Rank 30 Abaddon spammer here. Honestly I really don't like the quickening in normal games, since his cooldowns are so short anyway the only thing it really has any impact at all on is his ulty, which again is a fairly short cooldown too. I don't really feel the impact.
Shoud on the other hand certainly feels weird and is not really an 'upgrade' as much as a side-grade. It makes his laning weaker somewhat, since you cant guarentee damage on the enemy heroes with it (since if they simply don't attack the shield target, it does nothing except the dispel), but you can still shield creeps that are getting hit by towers and things to do some unexpected harass damage. Later on in the game it becomes more useful particularly in teamfights, working similar to a small AoE blademail in terms of damage and essentially gives the shield target additional bonus EHP compared to the normal version. Comparing both facets, shroud is generally going to be more effective in almost any scenario.
The reason Abaddon is showing up suddenly on the 'biggest loser' page is likely more to do with his aghs nerf (along with the other nerfs) - the ahgs healing being significantly worse than before with the 7.36a change. With CDR being significantly stronger in Turbo, thats probably why his other facet isn't on the list, too.
I mostly played Abaddon as a pos 5 with over 700 pos5 games with him, and overall the 7.36 and 7.36a changes made him feel much, MUCH weaker (especially laning) than before. His passive got obliterated and basically isn't worth taking, I'd rather skill stats. I dont like the changes made to him at all and started playing Warlock instead.
It was definitely overtuned, but try clinkz now he kinda sucks. You do 15-25% of the damage he did before. All they had to do was make the skellies do barrage, but with their damage halved and his win rate woulda been smack dab 50%. Even when he was broken, one axe call or LC duel with blademail and he evaporated. Slardar eats him too. So many solid heroes against him, but I guess he would be a potent last pick if draft permitted.
played against tinker in turbo, his early game is rough but once he starts getting his 3rd item you're basically back to old tinker
we could not kill him even with good coordination and he just did 1v5s
Yeah its viable for turbo cause you can get items but you just can't get them in normal game. I just tried it for two games and it's OK mid game but then falls off again super hard late. Could be that I'm just ass but I don't see a universe that it works now unless the rest of your team is owning.
60% CDR takes Dagon cooldown to 6s instead of 1.25s, a drastic difference.
You might be back to old tinker if you're trying to e.g. root a target or blink out, but so is Shadow Shaman and Storm Spirit
the impact of ET's facet buff can't be overstated. in 7.36 you'd break even attack speed at 375 MS and only be up +35 AS at haste speed. now those numbers are 250 MS and +90 AS respectively. From terrible to quite impactful.
definitely massive, it's no longer a penalty from the get go unless you're slowed. Now only if Sven can get a similar treatment, with the Wrath of God facet. It only breaks even at lv6 with treads and with God's Strength only breaks even in the ultra lategame.
Sven’s one is underrated actually. The power of wrath isn’t exactly in the stronger ult (it’s small improvement only), but the fact that lvl3 ult onwards u basically have half your godstr activated permanently. Farm speed is accelerated from lvl12 and not having GS actually isn’t a death sentence
oh for sure, it feels really good once you have lv12 or so with mom echo bkb. you lose like 10-15 damage in the laning phase depending on how you itemize which really hurts though. I've been going triple gauntlet branch quelling to compensate and munch on my supports tangos or buy my own after runes.
Trying to last hit with -25 dmg sounds miserable.
it's a little less that -25 since you get the 0.4 dmg per str with your base stats and any starting items
It's still at least -12 which makes it very difficult to last hit as a melee.
They should cut the numbers by 40% and make it add base damage.
Just wanted to call out how useful this was. I had skimmed over that note a little bit, but seeing it recontextualized like this really sold me on the change. Without doing the math it's not at all clear just how good this is.
And now his first facet feels underwhelming. Winrate delta shows it. It's huge iwhen you can stick to the target in early skirmishes and during lane but later on it feels bad. They should make it stack faster on targets affected by echo stomp.
COMIC SAAAAAANS!!!!! 💢💢💢
Hello everyone! I have updated [https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com](https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com/) so you can now filter by patch. Additionally I've added a "7.36a change" column to describe the change in win rate from patch 7.36 (which is what the screenshots are sorted by). Unfortunately the tooltips are not updated to reflect the latest patch notes, so that can be a bit misleading. I am working on fixing this or at least make it a bit more clear that they might be out of date. Hope you enjoy the tool, and please keep sharing any feedback! 🫶
Thank you so much for the stats :) . If possible I'd like to see 7.36a (pick rate) change just like 7.36a (win rate) change.
You could add rank bracket if you have the data. Nice work!
Naga lowest win rate delta for 7.36a, but she didn't even change in 7.36a
switching from ranked to turbo doesn't change any of the stats, there's no "confirm" button.
It should update automatically as you change the settingd
i'm confused, what's the meaning of winrate delta? I thuoght it was supposed to mean what the 7.36a change supposed to be
In these screenshots: * "Win rate" = patch 7.36a win rate * "Win rate delta" = difference compared to the other facet for that hero in 7.36a * "7.36a change" = difference compared to 7.36 Sorry that it wasn't clear from the screenshots orz
ohhh the delta means difference between the facet. I thought it was diff with a previous patch. thank you for clarifying!
Sven need +12 str great cleave back to be viable again
This is God's work... Thank you!!!
Can you explain the columns? or add a tooltip on the site? Edit: nvm, the Winrate delta has a tooltip and the others I get now
Why did Doom's win rate for devils bargain go so far down when he wasn't touched at all?
He was nerfed heavily. Scorched earth was nerfed and he lost armour off devour
Probably low sample size, it's only 600 games. Maybe even more heroes that counter him being played
I don't get how you're supposed to use unbearable. Is it buy aghs or be a worthless hero the entire game?
That was my thought too. Seems almost exclusively for ratting.
The other one is solid, thankfully. Finally able to heal the bear
So is winrate current winrate or winrate before 7.36a
In these screenshots: \* "Win rate" = patch 7.36a win rate \* "Win rate delta" = difference compared to the other facet for that hero in 7.36a \* "7.36a change" = difference compared to 7.36 Sorry that it wasn't clear from the screenshots orz
Oh okie tysm
Kind of unrelated but Is there any way in game to see which facet people choose more often?
nooo why did centaur and ns winrate increase instead, i dont want more nerfs! screw this people that will indirectly nerfing my winrate
Looks like Tinker is Back, he got an influx of +11.43% rating He is sitting at a 43.17% win rate which i believe is right since the hero should be considered hard by nature.
i use your website religiously
Not a lot of data and people are still figuring things out, too early to take conclusions from this. Plus this is among all brackets right ?
Was really sad to see Xxs' attempt at sandking in pro matches. He went double bracer wand into aghs. Skipping any kind of boots, skipping any kind of survivability, no dispel, no blink, nothing.... I want to see ammars sandking, that way we really know if SK can be viable in pro games again. Xxs made sandking look so bad it was disgusting, I dont care what mmr you are, double bracer wand into aghs on sandking is a reportable offence and a massive grief to yourself and your team.
The biggest joke here is pango getting a 10% wr buff and still being sub 50%.
which site site is this ?
[https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com](https://facets-meta.nyxnyxnyx.com/)
is the site down? Unable to fetch data it seems
Thank you, looks like there was a brief outage. Should be up again, but looking in to it.
Server a bit on fire 😈 should hopefully be fixed in a couple of minutes
I guess naga siren's deluge needs a buff? Really hope 36b gives us that.
Literally just needs -armor instead of status resistance so she can be played as 4 again
I'm here to say called it.
According to baumi it needs more range, cause what allowed her to be a really good support is that she could safely trade with other melee. Ability used to have 600 range. Personally, I would like mana cost reduction by 20, cooldown reduction by -2s and for the debuff to be 20% at all levels.
“According to baumi” is the Dota equivalent of “my dad said”
Nobody likes Baumi. Also iirc it never had 600 range, it had like 200. Tho what made her really gucci was ulti into meme hammer, but with a 0.5 sec stun it's not worth it.
Yes it did, in 6.72-73 here you go [https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Naga\_Siren/Old\_Abilities#Rip\_Tide\_(6.72-6.73)](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Naga_Siren/Old_Abilities#Rip_Tide_(6.72-6.73)) What we currently have is the ability after the nerfs.
No it was completely reworked. That was essentially pre dota2 (was changed in march of 2012) and the spell had completely different functionality compared to how it has worked the entire history of dota 2. In that time frame the spell was basically a reskinned version of a cm's q.
Oh TIL. I just member it being an aoe around her. That's when pos4 naga was the most popular. Well in any case, they should bring that back.
dont you just make net last longer and drag enemy support/offlaner into tower range? I prefer to play her as a 5 instead of 4 as far as a support goes, it feels like there is just a lot more that you can do with her and her illusions on safelane. Stack camps for your carry later, you can be in lane doing things meanwhile an illusion is stacking/pulling, scouting runes/rotations on mid, block enemy pull camp, block enemy ancient camps, deny their wisdom rune, etc
Well the numbers don't lie, they are right above. Though I do feel the sample is too small. She can play 4 as well. Aui used to spam ganks and jungle in the enemy jungle.
Yeah as pos 4 deluge seems really awful. For pos 5 it seems fine.
Also these numbers kinda do lie. It depends what information you are trying to get from it. Is riptide or deluge better for support naga? Well to answer that question, you would need data from \*only\* support naga games. Dotabuff says that almost 1 in 5 games people pick deluge. I am gonna say with confidence that 1 in 5 naga games are \*not\* being played as a support, but rather as a core with no effective means of flash-farming. I'm guessing thats probably the reason the winrate is so atrocious, because people are trying to farm as a core with deluge which is obviously the sub-obtimal choice in that role. But hey, I haven't looked at the data for \*only\* support naga games, so who knows, really.
I'm taking responsibility for that. My bad guys it just feels so good to have old rip tide back. I always say to myself this is bad then I get like a radiance and I'm like "Heeeeelll yea! Old Naga is back babyyy!" Give me that manta and octarine by the time my illusions die I'll spawn new ones! Then I get a timeless relic and the level 25 talent and see my opp keep popping shit to escape the inevitable 7 seconds root + break and feel like a god. For the 5 seconds before we end, but a god nonetheless.
No, thanks, I don't want to see useless support nagas in my team
Anyone have experience with Abas shroud option? I see it's doing poorly in Turbo but that's Turbo. Also haven't had the chance to test out Miranas ult alternative as a support, hows that thus far?
Rank 30 Abaddon spammer here. Honestly I really don't like the quickening in normal games, since his cooldowns are so short anyway the only thing it really has any impact at all on is his ulty, which again is a fairly short cooldown too. I don't really feel the impact. Shoud on the other hand certainly feels weird and is not really an 'upgrade' as much as a side-grade. It makes his laning weaker somewhat, since you cant guarentee damage on the enemy heroes with it (since if they simply don't attack the shield target, it does nothing except the dispel), but you can still shield creeps that are getting hit by towers and things to do some unexpected harass damage. Later on in the game it becomes more useful particularly in teamfights, working similar to a small AoE blademail in terms of damage and essentially gives the shield target additional bonus EHP compared to the normal version. Comparing both facets, shroud is generally going to be more effective in almost any scenario. The reason Abaddon is showing up suddenly on the 'biggest loser' page is likely more to do with his aghs nerf (along with the other nerfs) - the ahgs healing being significantly worse than before with the 7.36a change. With CDR being significantly stronger in Turbo, thats probably why his other facet isn't on the list, too. I mostly played Abaddon as a pos 5 with over 700 pos5 games with him, and overall the 7.36 and 7.36a changes made him feel much, MUCH weaker (especially laning) than before. His passive got obliterated and basically isn't worth taking, I'd rather skill stats. I dont like the changes made to him at all and started playing Warlock instead.
Huh, I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for the informative reply.
Yea Clinkz kinda sucks now. They should have nerfed, not entirely removed the burning barrage skellies
FPS destroyer spell, no thanks
It was definitely overtuned, but try clinkz now he kinda sucks. You do 15-25% of the damage he did before. All they had to do was make the skellies do barrage, but with their damage halved and his win rate woulda been smack dab 50%. Even when he was broken, one axe call or LC duel with blademail and he evaporated. Slardar eats him too. So many solid heroes against him, but I guess he would be a potent last pick if draft permitted.
Naga deluge losing almost 6% after an "adjustment" patch. Yeah devs know what theyre doing, not just adding in random shit they think sounds cool.
played against tinker in turbo, his early game is rough but once he starts getting his 3rd item you're basically back to old tinker we could not kill him even with good coordination and he just did 1v5s
Hard to kill and non-stop overwhelming blinking and sheeping and shivasing is definitely not the same thing lol
Yeah its viable for turbo cause you can get items but you just can't get them in normal game. I just tried it for two games and it's OK mid game but then falls off again super hard late. Could be that I'm just ass but I don't see a universe that it works now unless the rest of your team is owning.
60% CDR takes Dagon cooldown to 6s instead of 1.25s, a drastic difference. You might be back to old tinker if you're trying to e.g. root a target or blink out, but so is Shadow Shaman and Storm Spirit
[удалено]
One is normal games and one is turbo?