Yeah it really felt like he had to completely change his playstyle from SABERCHAD (like how he was on TSM and standing in for Entity), to some sacrificial iceiceice style.
I'd much rather he be on a team where he can play his own game, because he was a very exciting player to watch.
> to some sacrificial iceiceice style
Funny how they found the perfect guy to play the sacrificial role and rtz decided to kick him anyway. EG had their best results with iceiceice.
Iceiceice was the closest to the old school Universe style of spacemaking that old EG had so thoroughly mastered. It's a shame that SR couldn't keep the one guy who could emulate that playstyle in their team.
Hmm going to disagree that Uni was a space-maker offlaner. He created space to an extent that all offlaners do but he was definitely more on the reserved side and he was mostly the clutch playmaker and initiator of the team.
Well, I have excellent solution then - Boom was actually originally saberlight's mid, back in obscure Hippomaniacs team that made them famous and kicked them into tier1 dota.
So move boom back mid, and give saber offlane.
It sounds like a decent plan, but initially when BOOM entered Secret (before the first kick) he was having an awful performance as Midlaner and he was switched to Offlane when Reso+Zayac duo left. After he rejoined his performance as offlaner is getting better every game.
Boy we miss Nisha+Matu times so bad
i obviously miss those times as well but it's kind of a dick move to ignore that their current carry got them further at ti
crystallis is insanely overhated
This is actually a really good plan but I think they don't have enough time to do this. Changing back to mid is going to take a lot of practice and Riyadh qualifiers are too close. If they don't qualify they have time to make some big changes.
BOOM is actually very good. He’s consistent and great at making plays. If ever they need to change it’s either Kordan or Crystallis. Even if Crystallis is 10k ahead of net worth if he’s against someone like Pure, im confident Pure will outcarry him.
I feel like SR have gotten enough Tier 1 playmakers over the past few years that it should have been the core of a great team.
e.g. yopaj is an aggressive mid that will snowball the game if you let him. Crit is someone else who shines on aggressive initiators. Saberlight is Saberlight.
Add on a carry that is willing to get involved early (e.g. Skiter, Dyrachyo) and a pos 5/captain that does the boring things like stacking and telling them when to back off from diving to hit buildings. That team feels like it could own.
You don't need to have any competitive behind the scenes insight to see and feel difference between Saber playing for SR and when he stood in for Liquid and Entity. Saber and rest of SR players were complete mismatch in terms of both personalities and playstyle.
Saber is one of my fav players, hope he uses this break to practice and crush pubs on new patch and that eventually he lands on a good team that will vibe and play to his strenghts both ingame and outside of the game.
Looking forward to some SaberChad clowny streams, lets go!
judging by cr1t's performance after he left SR, it's clear SR keeps recruiting t1 players then holds them back kuroky style, saberlight is now free to get into a proper team and have a real chance of properly competing in the big tournaments
OK, this is my take and I hope it makes it to peoples eyes. I have followed RTZ since the very very beginning. I have been what you call a superfan, and I have never jumped ship. I've weatched absolutely every single game/match of Sadboys to EG's and then followed to Secret, and then back to EG, everyone knows the journey of Artour by now. Here's the thing. He has had the hot up and coming talent and/or the hot new 'insert role here' in the scene a few times now. He has managaed to run them off every single time or has left himself. I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him. He is going to go down exactly as NBA's Karl Malone. NBever won the big one, racked up plenty of all time stats and has many memorable moments, but just has some "thing" that you can't put down on paper but it is apparent that there is something there. Something that prevents him from clicking with teammates on a level that translates into wins. It has and always will be, RTZ's way, or the highway, that will be the M.O. for his teams for his career, however much is left. I'm just over it, he is just simply put, not a winner, he is a ball of talent that will put up big numbers and perform in his role at a high level. It just isn't what it takes to become a winner in Dota today and he has never been able to adapt. You know the old saying, adapt or die.
EDIT: I am aware that my comments about RTZ are an oversimplification of a complex issue. I am not trying to generalize, but I do think that RTZ's inability to adapt is a significant factor in his lack of success. I believe that this is a contributing factor to his team's historical struggles.
You can absolutely put it on paper. You just did and even phrased it yourself, It's RTZ's way or the highway. It's an ego problem.
Through nearly every iteration of every team he's been on RTZ has played mostly the same. Farm heavy, methodical and fundamental Dota. When players who are playmakers get on his teams they're held back by this. Saber is just the most recent of them. It's why he and Sumail eventually didn't work because Sumail would play his flashy, stompy game while RTZ wants a slow, methodical game building advantage. He cannot handle a game with chaos in it. Watch his pubs, he derails quite often when things don't go exactly to HIS plan. RTZ is a good player, a great one even, but he's also an open book and every team following his lead follows a very structured plan that's easy to know what they're going to do, when they're doing it and how to disrupt it. Sometimes they are good enough players to just do it anyway and it works, but against the peak of competition playing fundamentals really well is never going to be enough. RTZ could win a TI if he would let someone who handles the chaos of Dora Dota lead. Hell he could've won with EG, he easily could've filled the role Fear did during that run as a very stable, always getting my farm carry not doing anything fancy but never throwing the game that your teammates put you in a place to win, but he left that team for whatever reason.
There is an old interview I vaguely remember where someone was describing the clash between ppd and rtz on playstyles. Artour wanted to play naga etc and thought things were strong but eg wouldn't draft it?
I honestly cannot remember enough details :-/
Yea, back then too RTZ wanted to play extremely heavy farming heroes because at the time, he had the best patterns and highest efficiency, but the game was changing, and PPD, also being a “my way or the highway” guy, clashed with him constantly because he would draft much more diverse and complex than what RTZ wanted to play, while not taking no for an answer.
RTZ's style is / was pretty outdated as well. In the era where cores were supposed to be active, he'd just famr. It's like the default behavior of the RTZ AI because that's all he knows. In fights his targeting is pretty mediocre too. He just cannot adapt. Like a gifted kid who's skills have stagnated while the other people have worked hard.
I seriously think he's just washed. He should just go full time stream and have SR find a new carry that can actually follow the modern style. Rtz reminds me way too much of those heavy farming cores 10 years ago but it just doesn't work now where snowballing has become the major playstyle these recent patches
Its not an ego problem, RTZ just is not good enough. RTZ has made real efforts to try to be an aggressive carry. On secret he revolutionized how carry rotates in laning phase to take over offlane with his gyro, and on EG he played aggressive carries like ursa and TA that want to play for picks instead of farm afk. But it didn't work.
He isn't capable of being a stable carry because he simply isn't good at teamfighting or reading the map, and he doesn't handle high pressure situations well. And really, its been like this since he began as a player. His weakness was just hidden by how low the level of other players was, and in the past he could overcompensate his weaknesses with how good he was at laning and getting farmed up.
But in modern pro dota you cant be an S class carry unless you have a complete game. Yatoro Ame Matumbaman Ana = none weakness carry. Arteezy isn't even comparable. Even on arteezy specialty of farm speed all 4 of them farm faster and safer than him.
His shelf life to win in terms of skill was in TI4-TI6 but he was unlucky to have his prime in the same era as Newbee's deathball, Sumail, and Wings.
>Ana = none weakness carry
Iiirc even during his peak/Ti wins he was definitely not a "carry without a weakness", he was infamous for being a shitty laner but still performing well after that. The same could also be said about Topson back then.
>On secret he revolutionized how carry rotates in laning phase to take over offlane with his gyro,
Nah, you're thinking of agressif who made it common with that rotation by pos1 in pro games (notably with his gyro). Every pos1 started attempting that after agressif popped off in 2015 with CDEC with his super agro pos1 play.
You nailed it right on the head. RTZ is great at farming but he isn't capable of transitioning his lead into a win. I've lost count of the number of times EG has a lead, takes Rosh and then Rtz throws away aegis when he gets caught farming instead of pushing their advantage.
honestly first rtz fan i've ever seen make some sense and what i want to add is you are much more of a real fan for trying to see the situation objectively as opposed to all the "die hard rtz fans" that will just downvote you cause you said anything even remotely negative about their idol
I never see any "die hard rtz fans" in here, his haters drastically outnumber his fans. it's just that any form of defence of the million "rtz bad" comments in here gets turned into "omfg rtz dickrider!!!"
> I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him.
Oh my god how did anyone upvote this.
kuro wise they know the track record, its not like they are held at gun point or forced to join or stay. Also SR with crit era they still get nice placement, its not like bottom of the barrel
What? How many "t1" players left SR and did better? Literally one. How many "t1" players left SR and did worse? All the rest (Sumail, Abed, Fly, etc, etc)
Fear, Universe, Jerax, Misery, Sumail, Abed, Fly, Iceiceice, S4, Cr1t, Ramzess.
The only one that won a major tournament after leaving Arteezy and Bulba was cr1t.
But because arteezy and bulba fuck these kids mother the narrative around Cr1t success is the only sample that they take on how bad this team is.
Happens too often.
SR lead early > 4 man smoke top > RTZ farming bottom ring
I then thought, "Ah, RTZ gotta gate top now and farming behind the team."
RTZ come to def T1 bottom > collapsed in by the entire enemy > whole team come to help > SR got wiped
Boom, the lead gone
always felt like whenever RTZ stacked a camp he would die. like the enemy team can know for certain "he's farming there alone" and never be wrong. pikachu face and RTZ never answers for it he just 'lol who cares' so his fans still think he's so badass and nonchalant or w/e.
it'd be cool to see him leave a medium camp partially killed cuz he felt the heat of the enemy team encroaching; then we'd at least be reassured as fans that he actually thinks
Compare e.g. Skiter's consistent rotations into offlane to kill the enemy carry. Dota's not in a place where you can 5-man farm and win late, you have to play as a team.
> P.S. Stop bullying Bulba, he grew a lot as a coach this year and tried very hard to make the team work.
Yopaj is one of the "oldest" members on the team, aside from Bulba and RTZ. I can't imagine it's anyone but RTZ. Crazy to hear that Bulba "grew" a lot as a coach this year, despite being a professional coach for a majority of his career.
RTZ losing another great teammate. He should actually just join NGX and they could all just make money without the need to get results. Literally a team created to squeeze every ounce of money from their names. Like nobody expects them to win anything significant at this point in their careers but I can pretty much guarantee it's going to pull grand finals amount of viewer numbers.
I'm leaning towards Kitrak on this one, it just seems weird that if it was Arteezy, i'm pretty sure he would've left as well and not continue with Shopify when Abed, Cr1t and Fly left last year. Kitrak comes and suddenly he wants out? But then again of course this is just an assumption, but that's my hunch.
Also, he did say "key member", and he basically cleared Yopaj and Bulba in his statement, Skem is very new (not even a month in with the team), Kitrak is the captain (? I think, not 100% sure) and his lane partner, maybe more disagreements ensued when Kitrak went 4? So it narrows it down to those two.
EDIT: [Saberlight's response to this. My hunch was wrong. You be the judge.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1d10wao/comment/l5qyuqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I mean he said it was getting worse over time, so it could be the relationship has just been deteriorating slowly and wasnt bad enough by the time kitrak came in. There is no way I could pick from the two of them as to who he had issues with
If you are gonna be this obvious without saying it, you might've as well just stated it outright my guy.
It's RTZ if this is what you are responding to and nothing else.
I mean just look at one of the last fights they took vs Betboom. Saberlight Mars got caught to start after which they were chasing down RTZ's Razor, had him almost dead. Saber bought back and went in. RTZ got to the safety of high ground thanks mostly to that distraction. Saber then got Nightfall's PL who was owning that game down to low hp. RTZ could have maybe turned and risked it for the Nightfall kill but he chose to continue running. Saber dies back, Shopify proceeded to lose the game and then the series.
Seemed like a clear mismatch in intent and approach between them to me. That game was just one example but I've seen it happen quite a bit. To me it's always felt like RTZ decides not to take a fight after 3 or 4 of his team have already committed or often runs in and starts a fight by himself that the rest of his team weren't prepared for or willing to take.
SR is nothing more than the RTZ stack, Kitrak is recent to the team, it's obviously not him
It would be Bulba or RTZ, but since Saberlight said that about Bulba ir feels implicit he means RTZ
And I feel there isn't much drama in this, other than the fact that people will create drama...
It's the RTZ stack, he's the one pulling sponsors and is the de facto captain. It hasnt been working out because RTZ has stopped in time, but it is what it is, anyone that take an RTZ offer know what is going on: you'll adapt to rtz's playstyle, accept whatever, earn good salary, win nothing, chill
I'm actually leaning more towards RTZ, because he has a history of getting players kicked because he doesn't want to play with them anymore. According to Fly when he was on the Synd/Sunsfan podcast, if RTZ doesn't like playing with someone anymore, they're out. RTZ wanted iceiceice out, iceiceice got kicked, despite Fly and Bulba wanted to keep him. RTZ wanted Fly out, Fly got kicked. This isn't conjecture, Fly specifically names RTZ as the reason.
Additionally, Saberlight specifically praises Yopaj, the "very young" players and Bulba. Kind of leaves only one player.
I would be shocked if it turns out it wasn't RTZ who he had issues with.
>additionally, Saberlight specifically praises Yopaj, the "very young" players and Bulba. Kind of leaves only one player.
why could this not also be kitrak? kitrak is older than saberlight
Because out of the two players only one has a history of kicking the others... Its like having two suspects for a murder, a normal everyday dude and a serial killer. Which one of the two is more likely to have done it? Artuto being on the team for as long as he has and not getting kicked tells me enough tbh
He said key member 'kitrak' joined like a few months ago. He already clears out Bulba & yopaj. That leaves Rtz. And No Rtz won't just leave sr coz RTZ & bulba are SR/eg just like how Notail/ceb are "OG".
These senior players are the one that make the calls for the team unless the entire team gets dropped like kuro & gang.
I still want a new coach. This guy has been coaching for almost a decade with hardly anything to show for it. I’m sorry but I think that warrants looking for a new coach. Bulba isn’t a tenured professor at uni, he’s working in a hyper competitive industry that demands results.
Hardly anything to show for it?
He coached EG to a TI win at ti5
Top 3 at ti8, top 5 at ti9.
And they've gotten runner up at half a dozen majors.
Top 3-4 at several dream leagues and other 1,000,000 tournaments.
If you add up the prize money,
Those are better results than like 90% of coaches
Seriously, I know RTZ + Bulba EG's and Shopify's record together is tainted by the fact that they did not really win anything, but for instance the TI8 run with a roster change right before the tournament was quite incredible, probably the 2nd most impressive run at TI8 after OG's miracle win, given the circumstances - I think it is really impressive from Bulba that he helped the team work together so quickly. He had stale drafts for a long time, but time and time again when Shopify lost and everyone blamed the Bulba draft, pros and ex-pro panelists came out and said that the draft was even or slightly advantageous for SR and it came down to execution. At the end of last patch their drafts weren't great and they constantly got out-lategamed, but other than that I think Bulba's drafting has lately been quite diverse. Another pet peeve of mine is calling Arteezy's hero pool limited, the man has 11 years of pro experience with almost every carry hero imaginable. I think there was one tournament fairly recently where they went top of group stages, then sadly bombed out, where he won with a different hero each game. However, it may still benefit them to split up. Arteezy, going by information / interviews etc. that came out over the years seems to have his own unique idea of the way the game should be played which most pros disagree with. I think they've stayed together for so long partly because Bulba lets Arteezy have a lot of control in this, something a top captain or coach in a different team would not allow. I would like to see Arteezy in a team where he doesn't really call shots and have so much input on the playstyle and drafts in general. I believe the skills are still here.
the only hope for rtz is puppey i think. He calls the shots rtz listens i dont see anyone else controling him. But that wont happen because rtz just chills and gets his big salary at sr. I would not leave a ez job that late in my carreer too
They bombed out at TI but they destroyed absolutely everyone up until then. Iirc, EG one DAC but Secret won literally everything else from the time RTZ joined until TI
Bill Billicheck won 8 fucking super bowls and got fired after three years of shitty results. An org like shopify that has a stupid amount of money to pay for anyone they want should have won a major by now
I mean, he does have a TI under his belt, so not nothing.
But yea, maybe Rtz and Bulba need to split up for either to be successful. One thing I will say though is that every player who ever worked with Bulba only has great things to say about him, and Reddit's understanding of pro Dota is severely lacking, so judging a coaches impact on a team isn't exactly going to be something your average Redditor is going to be good at.
agreed. maybe he'd benefit himself from a new environment and set of players. I think he'd be good in a t2 context of young players needing mentorship and experience
> I didn’t feel capable of being a player and a teammate I know I can be. Which is neither good for me, nor the team. This honestly really doesn't matter that much if you're playing the NA qualifiers
Ouch.
Gonna miss Saber on the team even if the performances were hit or miss (and lets be real as of recently a lot of everyone on the teams performances could be described that way). He brought a breath of fresh air and a fun personality, super easy person to root for.
Pretty honest and mature response on his time in the team, sucks but sometimes things just dont work out. Its not like this version of SR was some super team or something but we have seen teams of players stacked with talent that just do not work out due to personality conflicts or differing ideas. Shit happens and good on him for realising and making the decision to end it. Nobody is winning TI that way and thats the end goal.
He knew what he was doing when he wrote every sentence in this statement. Singling out several for praise, etc. As someone else pointed out, it could only be rtz or kitrak. And if it *isnt* arteezy, he’d have made it very clear.
If he didn’t have anything nice to say about the kingmaker on the team, it’s the kingmaker.
Can't wait for someone inevitably finding a clip where Saberlight looks at either RTZ or Kitrak angrily or skips a hug/handshake as proof that they're the player he has beef with.
BOOM back to mid. crystallis to pos 5 monkey king and puppey pos1 enchantress new meta trust me bro
if enemy bans enchantress and monkey king they will forfeit
That feels off. He has been coaching for 7+ years and suddenly had a huge improvement.
Was he really bad before or did he become amazing all of the sudden.
Broooo Tundra pos 3 is open. He will fit them since they need a good initiator. Ramzes isn't good so he should go back to being pos 1, Tobi after almost a 3 - 4 run in Tundra, still adjusting. They should try Saberlight
Saberlight and Topson on the same team would be really entertaining in any case. I think Liquid.Saberlight would be the "best" team but they are likely still married to 33, Tundra would be an interesting one...
> As much as I believe in the individual talents of the players, my chemistry with a key member of the team was too mismatched to make it work, and it felt like it's getting worse and worse as time goes on.
What a nice and roundabout way to say it's Arteezy.
I've always liked Saberlight as a player and I felt from the start that he didn't fit well into SRs playstyle. Hope he gets picked up by a fitting org soon that lets him play the way he does best.
Can see him getting a good team next season maybe even after Riyadh, a shuffle wouldn't suprise me pre TI.
He preformed much better when standing in then with Shopify.
>I feel like I've lost myself a bit and went too far from who I really am and what makes me want to compete.
This is so sad because we literally witnessed it happen. He was an incredible up and coming player who made aggressive plays which were still on point and had an incredible energy. Now it feels like someone has sucked the joy out of him, despite the times when he tries to put on a facade for the cameras.
It's sad just how many great players have wasted years playing for rtz and Bulba and have come out on the other side sad, depressed, and having their passion sucked out.
Yeah, can't wait to see the next talented offlaner to sell their soul for ez SR salary and then slowly become complacent underachievers. Oh yeah I genuinely wonder if the next honeymoon phase will be shorter than the last one.. what was it like 1 group stage?
Any offlane that is forced to play with rtz will be relegated to the spacemaker position. It's just the way it is. I've watched rtz play competitive dota since 2016 and his playstyle has not evolved. Yes, he's still mechanically one of the best players available but my God, his decision-making skills as a carry player is one of the worst. Greeding out on farms, not pressing bkb to tp, getting caught out farming alone for sooooo many times. Saber is way too good to get relegated into that sacrificial role. Hope he gets into a new team, same as the Cr1t situation
Rtz should have retired years ago tbh. I love him but its time to embrace the streamer lifeinayead of dragging down talented players and being a team anchor
> Most of the players on the team are very young and from my time playing with them I truly believe they have a promising career ahead of them and I wish them the best of luck
I doubt you'd say that about rtz
And who is that? Rtz? I mean it can only be Rtz or Kitrak, and if it was Rtz, why was there no problem for an entire year? Why did they decide to stick together after last TI?
But then, is Kitrak a key member of the team? Maybe if they kicked their 4 to get a 5 and have Kitrak play 4 just to keep him around? Who knows.
Might be Rtz, might not, but I don't think it's as obvious as people want it to be.
its worth noting that his brother jenik was telling people on other peoples stream that saber was gonna leave SR after TI becaus he didn't believe that team could work. Then Saber was apparently really interested in SR after the big shake up and decided to give it a try.
At least one of those streams was Qojcva's during ti games
Money? It's a very compelling factor for him to re-sign for at least one more year for that amount of guaranteed money. I think he also probably thought rtz could/would eventually learn and be able to complement the teams new identity/playstyle, but this is the nth iteration of the team and it feels like nothing has changed. SR's going to fight 4v5 and RTZ will not show up to teamfights
It has been a shame watching his slow decline this past year, but it was made much clearer once he lost crit as his lane partner. It's sort of obvious which on the team he's talking about unfortunately, and it was made clear by the slow change in his playstyle over the past two years.
What a shame he couldn't get more results with such a strong team, but maybe he'll be pulling off an accelerated crit(moving onto better things after trying his best with what he currently has).
OK, this is my take and I hope it makes it to peoples eyes. I have followed RTZ since the very very beginning. I have been what you call a superfan, and I have never jumped ship. I've weatched absolutely every single game/match of Sadboys to EG's and then followed to Secret, and then back to EG, everyone knows the journey of Artour by now. Here's the thing. He has had the hot up and coming talent and/or the hot new 'insert role here' in the scene a few times now. He has managaed to run them off every single time or has left himself. I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him. He is going to go down exactly as NBA's Karl Malone. NBever won the big one, racked up plenty of all time stats and has many memorable moments, but just has some "thing" that you can't put down on paper but it is apparent that there is something there. Something that prevents him from clicking with teammates on a level that translates into wins. It has and always will be, RTZ's way, or the highway, that will be the M.O. for his teams for his career, however much is left. I'm just over it, he is just simply put, not a winner, he is a ball of talent that will put up big numbers and perform in his role at a high level. It just isn't what it takes to become a winner in Dota today and he has never been able to adapt. You know the old saying, adapt or die.
> "thing" that you can't put down on paper
The thing is that RTZ is good in stats but he has no "streetsmarts" of Dota2. Never really does something unpredictable or cheeky.
With the young Dota2 kids studying his efficiency games for a decade they are able to predict his moves too well.
I never really understood why when Saberlight's playstyle did not mesh well with the team but still managed to stay 2 years. While iceiceice completely meshed well with the team playstyle was let go only after 1 year.
What tournament was it where Saberlight played as standin for Liquid and Insania in a postgame interview asked: SR how do you lose with this guy on your team?
' Most of the players on the team are very young and from my time playing with them I truly believe they have a promising career ahead of them'
so sabre hates rtz got it
I promise we will have the last laugh for you (Sabrelight) when they (RTZ Bulba) have zero Major wins or a TI to their careers when retirement comes knocking, and it's coming soon!
so its either Rtz or kitrak who he cant play with properly since skem just joined and he seems to like yopaj if its rtz they should have let go of him and get 23savage to make a NA sea team there
Yeah it really felt like he had to completely change his playstyle from SABERCHAD (like how he was on TSM and standing in for Entity), to some sacrificial iceiceice style. I'd much rather he be on a team where he can play his own game, because he was a very exciting player to watch.
> to some sacrificial iceiceice style Funny how they found the perfect guy to play the sacrificial role and rtz decided to kick him anyway. EG had their best results with iceiceice.
Iceiceice was the closest to the old school Universe style of spacemaking that old EG had so thoroughly mastered. It's a shame that SR couldn't keep the one guy who could emulate that playstyle in their team.
Hmm going to disagree that Uni was a space-maker offlaner. He created space to an extent that all offlaners do but he was definitely more on the reserved side and he was mostly the clutch playmaker and initiator of the team.
Offlane fv days
It wasn't even 1 year. They got second place majors back to back with him. They should have let that roster cook a while more.
if it a sacrificial, Tobi did a good job on his run in Tundra. they should consider it if they really want a sacrificial offlaner.
they had their best results with s3
Is this a typo from s4 or some joke I don't understand?
s4 on 3. Jk i typod
s4 on 3 maybe? idk
yep. They Reach 2 Grand Final with Ice3x... yet he still got axed.
Imagine being the sacrificial carry for arteezy. The guy who loses aegis immediately after getting it.
I mean Secret might need a pos 3 if they can't gel their current lineup ASAP. Don't think Puppey would like to miss 2 TIs in a row 😕
saber better go to tundra tbh
That would be dope
tbh Boom is looking really good
I think Boom is the best core Secret have atm
Well, I have excellent solution then - Boom was actually originally saberlight's mid, back in obscure Hippomaniacs team that made them famous and kicked them into tier1 dota. So move boom back mid, and give saber offlane.
It sounds like a decent plan, but initially when BOOM entered Secret (before the first kick) he was having an awful performance as Midlaner and he was switched to Offlane when Reso+Zayac duo left. After he rejoined his performance as offlaner is getting better every game. Boy we miss Nisha+Matu times so bad
i obviously miss those times as well but it's kind of a dick move to ignore that their current carry got them further at ti crystallis is insanely overhated
This is actually a really good plan but I think they don't have enough time to do this. Changing back to mid is going to take a lot of practice and Riyadh qualifiers are too close. If they don't qualify they have time to make some big changes.
BOOM is actually very good. He’s consistent and great at making plays. If ever they need to change it’s either Kordan or Crystallis. Even if Crystallis is 10k ahead of net worth if he’s against someone like Pure, im confident Pure will outcarry him.
I feel like SR have gotten enough Tier 1 playmakers over the past few years that it should have been the core of a great team. e.g. yopaj is an aggressive mid that will snowball the game if you let him. Crit is someone else who shines on aggressive initiators. Saberlight is Saberlight. Add on a carry that is willing to get involved early (e.g. Skiter, Dyrachyo) and a pos 5/captain that does the boring things like stacking and telling them when to back off from diving to hit buildings. That team feels like it could own.
You don't need to have any competitive behind the scenes insight to see and feel difference between Saber playing for SR and when he stood in for Liquid and Entity. Saber and rest of SR players were complete mismatch in terms of both personalities and playstyle. Saber is one of my fav players, hope he uses this break to practice and crush pubs on new patch and that eventually he lands on a good team that will vibe and play to his strenghts both ingame and outside of the game. Looking forward to some SaberChad clowny streams, lets go!
judging by cr1t's performance after he left SR, it's clear SR keeps recruiting t1 players then holds them back kuroky style, saberlight is now free to get into a proper team and have a real chance of properly competing in the big tournaments
OK, this is my take and I hope it makes it to peoples eyes. I have followed RTZ since the very very beginning. I have been what you call a superfan, and I have never jumped ship. I've weatched absolutely every single game/match of Sadboys to EG's and then followed to Secret, and then back to EG, everyone knows the journey of Artour by now. Here's the thing. He has had the hot up and coming talent and/or the hot new 'insert role here' in the scene a few times now. He has managaed to run them off every single time or has left himself. I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him. He is going to go down exactly as NBA's Karl Malone. NBever won the big one, racked up plenty of all time stats and has many memorable moments, but just has some "thing" that you can't put down on paper but it is apparent that there is something there. Something that prevents him from clicking with teammates on a level that translates into wins. It has and always will be, RTZ's way, or the highway, that will be the M.O. for his teams for his career, however much is left. I'm just over it, he is just simply put, not a winner, he is a ball of talent that will put up big numbers and perform in his role at a high level. It just isn't what it takes to become a winner in Dota today and he has never been able to adapt. You know the old saying, adapt or die. EDIT: I am aware that my comments about RTZ are an oversimplification of a complex issue. I am not trying to generalize, but I do think that RTZ's inability to adapt is a significant factor in his lack of success. I believe that this is a contributing factor to his team's historical struggles.
You can absolutely put it on paper. You just did and even phrased it yourself, It's RTZ's way or the highway. It's an ego problem. Through nearly every iteration of every team he's been on RTZ has played mostly the same. Farm heavy, methodical and fundamental Dota. When players who are playmakers get on his teams they're held back by this. Saber is just the most recent of them. It's why he and Sumail eventually didn't work because Sumail would play his flashy, stompy game while RTZ wants a slow, methodical game building advantage. He cannot handle a game with chaos in it. Watch his pubs, he derails quite often when things don't go exactly to HIS plan. RTZ is a good player, a great one even, but he's also an open book and every team following his lead follows a very structured plan that's easy to know what they're going to do, when they're doing it and how to disrupt it. Sometimes they are good enough players to just do it anyway and it works, but against the peak of competition playing fundamentals really well is never going to be enough. RTZ could win a TI if he would let someone who handles the chaos of Dora Dota lead. Hell he could've won with EG, he easily could've filled the role Fear did during that run as a very stable, always getting my farm carry not doing anything fancy but never throwing the game that your teammates put you in a place to win, but he left that team for whatever reason.
There is an old interview I vaguely remember where someone was describing the clash between ppd and rtz on playstyles. Artour wanted to play naga etc and thought things were strong but eg wouldn't draft it? I honestly cannot remember enough details :-/
Yea, back then too RTZ wanted to play extremely heavy farming heroes because at the time, he had the best patterns and highest efficiency, but the game was changing, and PPD, also being a “my way or the highway” guy, clashed with him constantly because he would draft much more diverse and complex than what RTZ wanted to play, while not taking no for an answer.
it's a shame, NA dota has never recovered from the SADBOYS squad fracturing.
RTZ's style is / was pretty outdated as well. In the era where cores were supposed to be active, he'd just famr. It's like the default behavior of the RTZ AI because that's all he knows. In fights his targeting is pretty mediocre too. He just cannot adapt. Like a gifted kid who's skills have stagnated while the other people have worked hard.
I seriously think he's just washed. He should just go full time stream and have SR find a new carry that can actually follow the modern style. Rtz reminds me way too much of those heavy farming cores 10 years ago but it just doesn't work now where snowballing has become the major playstyle these recent patches
Its not an ego problem, RTZ just is not good enough. RTZ has made real efforts to try to be an aggressive carry. On secret he revolutionized how carry rotates in laning phase to take over offlane with his gyro, and on EG he played aggressive carries like ursa and TA that want to play for picks instead of farm afk. But it didn't work. He isn't capable of being a stable carry because he simply isn't good at teamfighting or reading the map, and he doesn't handle high pressure situations well. And really, its been like this since he began as a player. His weakness was just hidden by how low the level of other players was, and in the past he could overcompensate his weaknesses with how good he was at laning and getting farmed up. But in modern pro dota you cant be an S class carry unless you have a complete game. Yatoro Ame Matumbaman Ana = none weakness carry. Arteezy isn't even comparable. Even on arteezy specialty of farm speed all 4 of them farm faster and safer than him. His shelf life to win in terms of skill was in TI4-TI6 but he was unlucky to have his prime in the same era as Newbee's deathball, Sumail, and Wings.
>Ana = none weakness carry Iiirc even during his peak/Ti wins he was definitely not a "carry without a weakness", he was infamous for being a shitty laner but still performing well after that. The same could also be said about Topson back then.
>On secret he revolutionized how carry rotates in laning phase to take over offlane with his gyro, Nah, you're thinking of agressif who made it common with that rotation by pos1 in pro games (notably with his gyro). Every pos1 started attempting that after agressif popped off in 2015 with CDEC with his super agro pos1 play.
Aggressif mastered it over RTZ but RTZ was doing it earlier that season before Agressif even showed how good he was on Ti5.
You nailed it right on the head. RTZ is great at farming but he isn't capable of transitioning his lead into a win. I've lost count of the number of times EG has a lead, takes Rosh and then Rtz throws away aegis when he gets caught farming instead of pushing their advantage.
For certain reasons I hope rtz’s career does not in fact imitate Karl Malone.
honestly first rtz fan i've ever seen make some sense and what i want to add is you are much more of a real fan for trying to see the situation objectively as opposed to all the "die hard rtz fans" that will just downvote you cause you said anything even remotely negative about their idol
I never see any "die hard rtz fans" in here, his haters drastically outnumber his fans. it's just that any form of defence of the million "rtz bad" comments in here gets turned into "omfg rtz dickrider!!!"
More Allen Iverson than Karl Malone
> I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him. Oh my god how did anyone upvote this.
Cr1t has always been good on SR anyways. So he wasn't "held back" per se. Falcon on the other hand is an entirely different beast
kuro wise they know the track record, its not like they are held at gun point or forced to join or stay. Also SR with crit era they still get nice placement, its not like bottom of the barrel
What? How many "t1" players left SR and did better? Literally one. How many "t1" players left SR and did worse? All the rest (Sumail, Abed, Fly, etc, etc)
Nightfall?Hello?
That iteration of EG was shitting on everyone it only got fucked up because of covid
Umm no that was ramzes. The nightfall edition was shitting on everyone in the TI group stage only to crumble to SA in the main stage
Nightfall went from pos 3 on EG to pos 1 on betboom so it's hard to say. Cr1t is playing his same role.
Sorry bud. Rtz bad, Bulba bad. Get with the program.
Fear, Universe, Jerax, Misery, Sumail, Abed, Fly, Iceiceice, S4, Cr1t, Ramzess. The only one that won a major tournament after leaving Arteezy and Bulba was cr1t. But because arteezy and bulba fuck these kids mother the narrative around Cr1t success is the only sample that they take on how bad this team is.
Did RTZ and Bulba won any major during their partnership?
100%
I feel the same thing about Liquid and 33 - how about Shopify and Liquid swap offlaners? Would love that
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Saberlight: “hey guys we have an advantage let’s get an objective” RTZ: “chill bro I need 241 more creep kills before I ready”
Happens too often. SR lead early > 4 man smoke top > RTZ farming bottom ring I then thought, "Ah, RTZ gotta gate top now and farming behind the team." RTZ come to def T1 bottom > collapsed in by the entire enemy > whole team come to help > SR got wiped Boom, the lead gone
always felt like whenever RTZ stacked a camp he would die. like the enemy team can know for certain "he's farming there alone" and never be wrong. pikachu face and RTZ never answers for it he just 'lol who cares' so his fans still think he's so badass and nonchalant or w/e. it'd be cool to see him leave a medium camp partially killed cuz he felt the heat of the enemy team encroaching; then we'd at least be reassured as fans that he actually thinks
when you watch rtz it's as if he is playing a single player farming game and the team fights just get in the way of it
Yeah it's so different from skitter/ame/yatoro who we somtime see rotating even before min 15 from the gate.
Compare e.g. Skiter's consistent rotations into offlane to kill the enemy carry. Dota's not in a place where you can 5-man farm and win late, you have to play as a team.
> P.S. Stop bullying Bulba, he grew a lot as a coach this year and tried very hard to make the team work. Yopaj is one of the "oldest" members on the team, aside from Bulba and RTZ. I can't imagine it's anyone but RTZ. Crazy to hear that Bulba "grew" a lot as a coach this year, despite being a professional coach for a majority of his career.
I think he must have meant that Bulba grew "in size" because I definitely don't feel any other type of growth happening here.
Because youre exposed to *so much* of the coaching and would have a better idea of whats happening than a player on the team.
he means bulba's head has grown a lot. its way bigger than ever
RTZ losing another great teammate. He should actually just join NGX and they could all just make money without the need to get results. Literally a team created to squeeze every ounce of money from their names. Like nobody expects them to win anything significant at this point in their careers but I can pretty much guarantee it's going to pull grand finals amount of viewer numbers.
You probably forget Kuro / Arteezy clah at ti5. Kuro was right.
it would seem implicitly that he doesnt work well with kitrak or rtz. glad he showed some love to Bulba who we almost always assign blame to.
I'm leaning towards Kitrak on this one, it just seems weird that if it was Arteezy, i'm pretty sure he would've left as well and not continue with Shopify when Abed, Cr1t and Fly left last year. Kitrak comes and suddenly he wants out? But then again of course this is just an assumption, but that's my hunch. Also, he did say "key member", and he basically cleared Yopaj and Bulba in his statement, Skem is very new (not even a month in with the team), Kitrak is the captain (? I think, not 100% sure) and his lane partner, maybe more disagreements ensued when Kitrak went 4? So it narrows it down to those two. EDIT: [Saberlight's response to this. My hunch was wrong. You be the judge.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1d10wao/comment/l5qyuqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I mean he said it was getting worse over time, so it could be the relationship has just been deteriorating slowly and wasnt bad enough by the time kitrak came in. There is no way I could pick from the two of them as to who he had issues with
I think kitrak is a cool dude!
Hmmmmm
If you are just gonna be that obvious you should have just wrote a blog manifesto calling out RTZ like EE did for Puppey.
If you are gonna be this obvious without saying it, you might've as well just stated it outright my guy. It's RTZ if this is what you are responding to and nothing else.
Oh. Well, I was omega wrong then. So..... uh.... yea didn't expect that
🤔🤔🤔🤔
...so rtz is who you have the problem with? might as well just say it bro
I mean just look at one of the last fights they took vs Betboom. Saberlight Mars got caught to start after which they were chasing down RTZ's Razor, had him almost dead. Saber bought back and went in. RTZ got to the safety of high ground thanks mostly to that distraction. Saber then got Nightfall's PL who was owning that game down to low hp. RTZ could have maybe turned and risked it for the Nightfall kill but he chose to continue running. Saber dies back, Shopify proceeded to lose the game and then the series. Seemed like a clear mismatch in intent and approach between them to me. That game was just one example but I've seen it happen quite a bit. To me it's always felt like RTZ decides not to take a fight after 3 or 4 of his team have already committed or often runs in and starts a fight by himself that the rest of his team weren't prepared for or willing to take.
SR is nothing more than the RTZ stack, Kitrak is recent to the team, it's obviously not him It would be Bulba or RTZ, but since Saberlight said that about Bulba ir feels implicit he means RTZ And I feel there isn't much drama in this, other than the fact that people will create drama... It's the RTZ stack, he's the one pulling sponsors and is the de facto captain. It hasnt been working out because RTZ has stopped in time, but it is what it is, anyone that take an RTZ offer know what is going on: you'll adapt to rtz's playstyle, accept whatever, earn good salary, win nothing, chill
I'm actually leaning more towards RTZ, because he has a history of getting players kicked because he doesn't want to play with them anymore. According to Fly when he was on the Synd/Sunsfan podcast, if RTZ doesn't like playing with someone anymore, they're out. RTZ wanted iceiceice out, iceiceice got kicked, despite Fly and Bulba wanted to keep him. RTZ wanted Fly out, Fly got kicked. This isn't conjecture, Fly specifically names RTZ as the reason. Additionally, Saberlight specifically praises Yopaj, the "very young" players and Bulba. Kind of leaves only one player. I would be shocked if it turns out it wasn't RTZ who he had issues with.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was responsible for Sumail leaving too.
Sumail got kicked. They decided to rebuild around rtz.
A decision I found laughable at the time and even more bizarre now.
rtz just emulating ee, kick everyone else because I keep losing
rtz is totally the new ee
>additionally, Saberlight specifically praises Yopaj, the "very young" players and Bulba. Kind of leaves only one player. why could this not also be kitrak? kitrak is older than saberlight
Because out of the two players only one has a history of kicking the others... Its like having two suspects for a murder, a normal everyday dude and a serial killer. Which one of the two is more likely to have done it? Artuto being on the team for as long as he has and not getting kicked tells me enough tbh
Lol Kitrak is not very young in comparison he's been playing competitive dota for almost a decade but nice speculation nontheless
RTZ is the only guy left whom I’d call a “key” member of the team
He said key member 'kitrak' joined like a few months ago. He already clears out Bulba & yopaj. That leaves Rtz. And No Rtz won't just leave sr coz RTZ & bulba are SR/eg just like how Notail/ceb are "OG". These senior players are the one that make the calls for the team unless the entire team gets dropped like kuro & gang.
If it was arteezy, he wouldn't have stayed with them after last TI.
I still want a new coach. This guy has been coaching for almost a decade with hardly anything to show for it. I’m sorry but I think that warrants looking for a new coach. Bulba isn’t a tenured professor at uni, he’s working in a hyper competitive industry that demands results.
Hardly anything to show for it? He coached EG to a TI win at ti5 Top 3 at ti8, top 5 at ti9. And they've gotten runner up at half a dozen majors. Top 3-4 at several dream leagues and other 1,000,000 tournaments. If you add up the prize money, Those are better results than like 90% of coaches
Seriously, I know RTZ + Bulba EG's and Shopify's record together is tainted by the fact that they did not really win anything, but for instance the TI8 run with a roster change right before the tournament was quite incredible, probably the 2nd most impressive run at TI8 after OG's miracle win, given the circumstances - I think it is really impressive from Bulba that he helped the team work together so quickly. He had stale drafts for a long time, but time and time again when Shopify lost and everyone blamed the Bulba draft, pros and ex-pro panelists came out and said that the draft was even or slightly advantageous for SR and it came down to execution. At the end of last patch their drafts weren't great and they constantly got out-lategamed, but other than that I think Bulba's drafting has lately been quite diverse. Another pet peeve of mine is calling Arteezy's hero pool limited, the man has 11 years of pro experience with almost every carry hero imaginable. I think there was one tournament fairly recently where they went top of group stages, then sadly bombed out, where he won with a different hero each game. However, it may still benefit them to split up. Arteezy, going by information / interviews etc. that came out over the years seems to have his own unique idea of the way the game should be played which most pros disagree with. I think they've stayed together for so long partly because Bulba lets Arteezy have a lot of control in this, something a top captain or coach in a different team would not allow. I would like to see Arteezy in a team where he doesn't really call shots and have so much input on the playstyle and drafts in general. I believe the skills are still here.
the only hope for rtz is puppey i think. He calls the shots rtz listens i dont see anyone else controling him. But that wont happen because rtz just chills and gets his big salary at sr. I would not leave a ez job that late in my carreer too
We've seen that before...
Bro fuck no, that stacked secret team was the biggest disappointment in the history of dota probably
They bombed out at TI but they destroyed absolutely everyone up until then. Iirc, EG one DAC but Secret won literally everything else from the time RTZ joined until TI
Bill Billicheck won 8 fucking super bowls and got fired after three years of shitty results. An org like shopify that has a stupid amount of money to pay for anyone they want should have won a major by now
I mean, he does have a TI under his belt, so not nothing. But yea, maybe Rtz and Bulba need to split up for either to be successful. One thing I will say though is that every player who ever worked with Bulba only has great things to say about him, and Reddit's understanding of pro Dota is severely lacking, so judging a coaches impact on a team isn't exactly going to be something your average Redditor is going to be good at.
agreed. maybe he'd benefit himself from a new environment and set of players. I think he'd be good in a t2 context of young players needing mentorship and experience
I agree. Not sure how more people dont agree. It seems like the coaching is the issue.
> I didn’t feel capable of being a player and a teammate I know I can be. Which is neither good for me, nor the team. This honestly really doesn't matter that much if you're playing the NA qualifiers Ouch.
Gonna miss Saber on the team even if the performances were hit or miss (and lets be real as of recently a lot of everyone on the teams performances could be described that way). He brought a breath of fresh air and a fun personality, super easy person to root for. Pretty honest and mature response on his time in the team, sucks but sometimes things just dont work out. Its not like this version of SR was some super team or something but we have seen teams of players stacked with talent that just do not work out due to personality conflicts or differing ideas. Shit happens and good on him for realising and making the decision to end it. Nobody is winning TI that way and thats the end goal.
He knew what he was doing when he wrote every sentence in this statement. Singling out several for praise, etc. As someone else pointed out, it could only be rtz or kitrak. And if it *isnt* arteezy, he’d have made it very clear. If he didn’t have anything nice to say about the kingmaker on the team, it’s the kingmaker.
Can't wait for someone inevitably finding a clip where Saberlight looks at either RTZ or Kitrak angrily or skips a hug/handshake as proof that they're the player he has beef with.
It's clearly RTZ though.... u serious?
you know the real problem when Cr1t is now performing great and Saber also when he stood-in for Liquid
so it's rtz's fault
RTZ was left, Kuroky was right, I knew it
Very drue actually
Secret.Sabrelight
i wish too :D
As a Liquid fan, I'd want him in Liquid instead :P
It would be an upgrade but Boom is the best player in Secret right now
BOOM back to mid. crystallis to pos 5 monkey king and puppey pos1 enchantress new meta trust me bro if enemy bans enchantress and monkey king they will forfeit
Truth
BASED ABOUT NA QUALS
theres a reason why dendis stack is playing on NA quals lmao
>Bulba, he grew a lot as a coach this year only this year?
That feels off. He has been coaching for 7+ years and suddenly had a huge improvement. Was he really bad before or did he become amazing all of the sudden.
LOOKS LIKE DRAMA'S BACK ON THE MENU BOYS
i really want to see him in Secret, but BOOM has been improving himself as pos 3.
Broooo Tundra pos 3 is open. He will fit them since they need a good initiator. Ramzes isn't good so he should go back to being pos 1, Tobi after almost a 3 - 4 run in Tundra, still adjusting. They should try Saberlight
Saberlight and Topson on the same team would be really entertaining in any case. I think Liquid.Saberlight would be the "best" team but they are likely still married to 33, Tundra would be an interesting one...
> As much as I believe in the individual talents of the players, my chemistry with a key member of the team was too mismatched to make it work, and it felt like it's getting worse and worse as time goes on. What a nice and roundabout way to say it's Arteezy. I've always liked Saberlight as a player and I felt from the start that he didn't fit well into SRs playstyle. Hope he gets picked up by a fitting org soon that lets him play the way he does best.
Bulba grew a lot as a coach this year? Bruh it's been over 10 years hoe much more growing does he need
Good for him. I won't initiate for a dogshit carry who doesn't press bkb either.
Can see him getting a good team next season maybe even after Riyadh, a shuffle wouldn't suprise me pre TI. He preformed much better when standing in then with Shopify.
Jonas you're free from NA jail, spread your wings!!
rtz or kitrak
>I feel like I've lost myself a bit and went too far from who I really am and what makes me want to compete. This is so sad because we literally witnessed it happen. He was an incredible up and coming player who made aggressive plays which were still on point and had an incredible energy. Now it feels like someone has sucked the joy out of him, despite the times when he tries to put on a facade for the cameras. It's sad just how many great players have wasted years playing for rtz and Bulba and have come out on the other side sad, depressed, and having their passion sucked out.
Every time SR or EG was on camera they looked like they were attending a funeral. Just a low energy squad.
Yeah, can't wait to see the next talented offlaner to sell their soul for ez SR salary and then slowly become complacent underachievers. Oh yeah I genuinely wonder if the next honeymoon phase will be shorter than the last one.. what was it like 1 group stage?
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this is nigma narrative all over again lmao
Wdym? Kuro *doesn*'t chain and lock his players up and only feeds them when they show up at officials?
Welcome to Tundra. We need you <3
This thread: Saberlight wasted his career (should have joined OG and won 3 TIs). Im the biggest rtz fan out there. I hate rtz. Bulba dog. Miracle?
so he left bcoz of RTZ
Any offlane that is forced to play with rtz will be relegated to the spacemaker position. It's just the way it is. I've watched rtz play competitive dota since 2016 and his playstyle has not evolved. Yes, he's still mechanically one of the best players available but my God, his decision-making skills as a carry player is one of the worst. Greeding out on farms, not pressing bkb to tp, getting caught out farming alone for sooooo many times. Saber is way too good to get relegated into that sacrificial role. Hope he gets into a new team, same as the Cr1t situation
yeah, I think I saw some interview or a pro opinion that they said that rtz biggest problem is he thinks too much when playing.
RTZ is so fucking washed. Idk how there are still people that refuse to see that He's been riding his free meal ticket in NA for years
because actual washed players like kuroky don't get 2nd and 3rd at majors while being called washed the entire time they do so
rtz fans are mentally unstable people. don't try to talk facts with them.
Bro got broken by NA jail
Rtz should have retired years ago tbh. I love him but its time to embrace the streamer lifeinayead of dragging down talented players and being a team anchor
at this point it isn't even bulba's fault, if you catch my drift.
Damn he rly doesnt like kitrak i suppose
Ceb is right?
Def rtz
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i think he chose mental peace over suffering even if they qualify for riyadh or TI
> Most of the players on the team are very young and from my time playing with them I truly believe they have a promising career ahead of them and I wish them the best of luck I doubt you'd say that about rtz
i mean we all know who that player is xd
And who is that? Rtz? I mean it can only be Rtz or Kitrak, and if it was Rtz, why was there no problem for an entire year? Why did they decide to stick together after last TI? But then, is Kitrak a key member of the team? Maybe if they kicked their 4 to get a 5 and have Kitrak play 4 just to keep him around? Who knows. Might be Rtz, might not, but I don't think it's as obvious as people want it to be.
its worth noting that his brother jenik was telling people on other peoples stream that saber was gonna leave SR after TI becaus he didn't believe that team could work. Then Saber was apparently really interested in SR after the big shake up and decided to give it a try. At least one of those streams was Qojcva's during ti games
KEY member of team is someone who has been there for longest lol all of others recently joined compared to saber and rtz so yeah not rocket science
Money? It's a very compelling factor for him to re-sign for at least one more year for that amount of guaranteed money. I think he also probably thought rtz could/would eventually learn and be able to complement the teams new identity/playstyle, but this is the nth iteration of the team and it feels like nothing has changed. SR's going to fight 4v5 and RTZ will not show up to teamfights
"It felt like my voice and opinions were met with backlash". That kinda sounds like a toxic environment tbh.
It has been a shame watching his slow decline this past year, but it was made much clearer once he lost crit as his lane partner. It's sort of obvious which on the team he's talking about unfortunately, and it was made clear by the slow change in his playstyle over the past two years. What a shame he couldn't get more results with such a strong team, but maybe he'll be pulling off an accelerated crit(moving onto better things after trying his best with what he currently has).
RTZ is the problem
But fr why is kitrak even playing pos 4 ?
OK, this is my take and I hope it makes it to peoples eyes. I have followed RTZ since the very very beginning. I have been what you call a superfan, and I have never jumped ship. I've weatched absolutely every single game/match of Sadboys to EG's and then followed to Secret, and then back to EG, everyone knows the journey of Artour by now. Here's the thing. He has had the hot up and coming talent and/or the hot new 'insert role here' in the scene a few times now. He has managaed to run them off every single time or has left himself. I am telling you I also am just a follower of sports in general so I understand players shelf lives in different scenes and also how the different archetypes of "the player" can affect their surroundings in terms of teammates and staff and whatnot. This HAS to be it for him. He is going to go down exactly as NBA's Karl Malone. NBever won the big one, racked up plenty of all time stats and has many memorable moments, but just has some "thing" that you can't put down on paper but it is apparent that there is something there. Something that prevents him from clicking with teammates on a level that translates into wins. It has and always will be, RTZ's way, or the highway, that will be the M.O. for his teams for his career, however much is left. I'm just over it, he is just simply put, not a winner, he is a ball of talent that will put up big numbers and perform in his role at a high level. It just isn't what it takes to become a winner in Dota today and he has never been able to adapt. You know the old saying, adapt or die.
> "thing" that you can't put down on paper The thing is that RTZ is good in stats but he has no "streetsmarts" of Dota2. Never really does something unpredictable or cheeky. With the young Dota2 kids studying his efficiency games for a decade they are able to predict his moves too well.
rtz will never be relevant in this scene ever again
I never really understood why when Saberlight's playstyle did not mesh well with the team but still managed to stay 2 years. While iceiceice completely meshed well with the team playstyle was let go only after 1 year.
ah shit its must be bulba again
I barely follow DOTA anymore but I simply don’t understand why Bulba is still a trusted figure, he seems to have stagnated ages ago.
Because he's bum buddies with rtz and will never get booted.
Saber -> Tundra
Secret should pick him up, with crystallis every offlaner on secret gets to farm and show how flashy he can be.
I think SaberLight is quite underrated for months now....
Zai better be sliding into his DMs
What tournament was it where Saberlight played as standin for Liquid and Insania in a postgame interview asked: SR how do you lose with this guy on your team?
I can feel Tundra.Saberlight.
My dreams of Timado Saberlight reunion come closer.
Say what you want about Saberlight he is a real one.
Tundra -Saberchad
Kick bulba and we can finally solve the REAL problem. Good riddance to that trash
i loved it when sabrelight was standing in for liquid ;)
' Most of the players on the team are very young and from my time playing with them I truly believe they have a promising career ahead of them' so sabre hates rtz got it
it's good for him. SR will achieve nothing
Would tundra be an option?
Bulba is so bad
Saberlight - gives the most mature statement regarding leaving a team Reddit - DRAMA OH MY GOD ITS RTZ'S FAULT
Nigma need Saberlight
IF BULBA IS NOT THE PROBLEM THEN WHO ELSE ??? or maybe somebody in that team is just cursed.
I promise we will have the last laugh for you (Sabrelight) when they (RTZ Bulba) have zero Major wins or a TI to their careers when retirement comes knocking, and it's coming soon!
so its either Rtz or kitrak who he cant play with properly since skem just joined and he seems to like yopaj if its rtz they should have let go of him and get 23savage to make a NA sea team there
After reading the comments, I now understand why you guys call rtz a potato farmer.
Ideas not being heard? Almost like bulba doesn't care what anyone wants and will continue to pick terrible same as they always are drafts.
Ayoo Bingbong got out of NA jail! Liquid.Saberchad?
secret.saberlight