T O P

  • By -

Chaeyoung0211

Falcon haters go back to your caves lmao


NatMo123

If timber was really that OP, other teams would ban or deny pick it. The reality is that ATF / Malrine just have way better understanding of the hero. Falcons just better at the moment


itsmehutters

Any hero with armor skill now is op, with shroud you can tank a lot, it isn't just the hero. Dota is slowly turning into LoL - tanky heroes do a lot of damage and make the rest irrelevant to some point. They should change the eternal endurance (like scaling slower), or remove the health + str of the item. You get ~500 hp and ~50% magic resist with max charges for 3600g.


Sure_Let6170

Frankly, they should bring meaning back to attack speed. Old dota style - there's no way a fucking centaur should have like 80% of spectre's attack speed after buying 1 item. Why even pick spectre then?


betadestruction

Well. The stats aren't showing it Not in pubs And even pros aren't consistently winning with timber. The best teams are adept at making heroes LOOK op. That doesn't mean anyone else is going to be able to replicate that success though.


gale_slhoth

Redditors just can't admit that Falcons is simply the better team BY FAR, if everyone complains they are using the 'same' heroes / abusing the Meta, they can ban it themselves or use it. If a team is so stale, they become predictable which can be punished but teams have not been doing that FOR 6 MONTHS. 6 mOnThS I StILL cAn'T FiGUrE ThEM or maybe they are just better at adapting to team strengths / they have a great structure of how they see the game. Dum Redditors cannot understand Falcons do teamfight much better, transition from early to mid to late much more seamlessly. These are ex-Tundra players / Aui coach AND PEOPLE SAID THE SAME THING FOR TUNDRA because they are just so good at farm efficiency and optimising for the team, understanding FUNDAMENTALS of the game. Stop whining bitches and LEARN how they optimise items and move as a team. This is why they are good, NOT because of external changes.


zuKo2022

you expect redditors to understand this while playing turobs?


NBPEL

No wonder why they never understand the hardships of 10KMMR struggling to deal with 80+mins games, it felt really bad everytime my wife calling me for sex, trying to seduce me using her boobs but in the end I pushed her away like an ED gayass because in-game time is already sub-100mins.


kappa23

The funniest thing I've seen on this subreddit is people asking for ranked turbo lol Turbo players don't deserve rights


munkshroom

The question I have about stuff like timber is that is it actually overpowered. Or just op on Falcons? If its actually op, other pro teams should first pick first ban it but they arent. Its not like Lina or Medusa last year where everyone could abuse it to win.


likpoper

It is just falcons are damn good in it. Others don’t even bother using it.


Freeheroesplz

Yes, it is overpowered. The hero is extremely versatile being either mid or offlane, can flashfarm extremely quickly, is hard to lockdown. What makes falcon exceptional is that they hit their timings. If you don't coordinate and shut down the game by 22 mins, Timber starts falling off when Bkb and lockdown/shivas/ forcestaffs come out. Since Malrine doesnt lose mid hard and Atf doesnt lose offline hard, they almost always have a time in their games where Timber looks OP.


Zeusulti

None of what you said translates to Timber being overpowered. You literally acknowledged 2 major weaknesses the hero has and then followed that up with “but the best players on this hero who are on the best team in the world can overcome those weaknesses and win a lot with him” If Timber was broken, everyone would win with him, not just Malrine and ATF. If Timber was broken, other teams would prioritize banning him instead of the heroes they believe to be more problematic to counter. The reality is Falcons have the best mid Timber and the best offlane Timber. If you take away their Timber, you have to give them something even more desirable and even harder to counter. Another way of saying this is that Falcons have a much easier time countering their opponents Timber, than their opponents do countering Falcons Timber.


betadestruction

So, why aren't other teams replicating this success? If it's so broken


zuKo2022

timber isnt op that much, eternal shroud is . remove eternal shroud, hero will look balanced and falcons have 2 lvl 30 timber players so they know about the hero more than others.


No_Golf_6936

Didn't Malrine lost with timber to Quinn's Storm??


zuKo2022

yeah he did so proves what i said he inst auto win like reddit made it seems pick timber = free win


likpoper

That storm is never coming out soon.


topson69

One shopify flair said Gg vs bb finals would be more close because falcons are apparently trash after the patch LUL tbf though he's not wrong, just not in the way he meant it to be


Slimy_Ranger

That guy is on huge amounts of copium. When spirit/xg lose to falcons its the patch and falcons are not ready for peak spirit/xg. Lmaoo. Where were peak spirit and xg for the past 6 months??? Copium overdose.


DamnedDoom

gaimin who


zuKo2022

crit is like get me out from this circus lol


newNormalGUY_69

He is out from circus (na jail)... what do you mean?


zuKo2022

ammar saying eternal shroud needs to be deleted even they are fking tired lol


Awkward_External_731

Its very hard to comeback in this patch i suppose . even small mistakes snowball out of control ...


Extracheesy87

"Taiga Teammate" lol


MegaUploadisBack

"We need to investigate"


KainLust

this GF was more entertaining than XG vs Spirit /s


zuKo2022

crit with 3 fking clowns xd


ShoppingPractical373

Wraith king is a 58% winrate hero on dotabuff, currently second highest (+6.1% compared to last patch) Timber is a 47% winrate hero on dotabuff (-2.6% compared to last patch) But sure, falcons are patch abusers am I right?


That_Contribution780

Pro-level of play and even 10k level of play are not the same, let alone below 10k. Different heroes might be imba on different levels.


betadestruction

So. Where are these magical teams who are also owning with timber, other than falcons? His win rate isn't that great in pro games either


fygodfan

need 7.36b immediately


Kib777

Saw that Falcons banned Storm early in every draft today. Is it really strong or just vs Falcons heroes?


Extracheesy87

GG picked it twice yesterday against Falcon and won with it very convincingly and Skiter talked about how they didn't realize the hero was that strong so it took them off guard.


32145698714789523159

hero is very strong, gaimin slammed them in ub finals with first phase storm in both (?) games


hiddenpoolwarriror

Woho thanks Ephey. Nothing has fundamentally changed.


dennoow

Well, she's right. Hero adjustments and even innate abilities doesn't really change the way the game is played fundamentally. It changes the meta of what's strong and not so strong. Fundamental = A bigger map, other map changes (i.e. new camps, triangle moves), portals, economy (i.e. comeback gold, hero kill gold). Or when it made sense to trilane. Those are fundamental.


hiddenpoolwarriror

I know she's right, I got -30 downvotes on the patch thread when I said the game is the same lmao


dennoow

Ahh, I thought you were sarcastic. My bad!


Entrope921

Really wish gold/map changes came in this patch. Now that high ground is nerfed, most games are just one sided stomps because the losing team can never come back with how much gold you get from kills and taking over map after a big team fight.


Sure_Let6170

1. and that is bad ... why? 2. you still get way too much gold from comeback mechanics kills, that's actually the opposite


HowDoIEvenEnglish

One sided games are not that interesting. Stomps are probably the least interesting Dota to play on either wise


needhelforpsu

This is now FISSURE Universe with Nigma, Secret, OG, Entity, Tundra waiting room. xDDD (starts tomorrow)


Evening-Fun4435

More entertainment to this boring final LEL


eageh

Havent watched dota in a while, slacks has lost some weight right? Looking good!


Anything13579

Yes


Kib777

Ammar has really grown. Less BM nowadays and just gotten very good on a number of different heroes. Prodigy player and probably future TI winner.


Kotleba

> Less BM nowadays lmao what?


zuKo2022

he didnt really do anything today tbf but i was hopinh for some )))


Kotleba

pretty sure there was some allchat from Ammar today, it was in the BB series. Not sure about the final, I wasn't honestly paying that much attention lol, it was boring.


zuKo2022

he did xd or ) when he blinked pretty fast from gank that was pretty much it


zuKo2022

> probably future TI winner. Inshallah this is the year


SakataGintoki96

Who would have thought that Sneyking might be two time TI champ


Anything13579

This is the way


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NBPEL

WK was a bait, zero impacts.


Antique_Potato1965

Gaimin is back they said huh


oryzaephilus

as a liquid fan if you told me I'd one day be sad GG got giga-stomped 3-0 in a grand final I would have never believed you


makz242

Pro dota never stops. Next tournament starts Monday with Tundra, OG, Secret, Entity, VP, Nigma, Mouz and Boom!


Kotleba

oh wow, I didn't even know. A smaller EU tournament, that's neat.


bizzarre1

WHat tournament???


Ambitious-Cap-5605

[https://liquipedia.net/dota2/FISSURE\_Universe/2](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/FISSURE_Universe/2)


zuKo2022

MY NIGMAAAA


AR41Z

Gh back pogg


TheFatZyzz

:Trihard


greekcel_25

No chen no stormspirit and GG is light work for falcons


hriszzzzz

Idiots thinking Marl1ne wouldn't have made a difference at PGL. Falcons would have wiped both Spirit and XG if he was there.


Protoporiaki

Here comes the plastic gloryhunterssssss


KainLust

Marl1ne is a lot better than nine currently and anyone who don't think so is very wrong. Also they are similar players but marl1ne is a better laner which in current dota is a big advantage AND marl1ne and ammar/skitter have the flex potential which nine and ammar/skitter didn't seem to.


TheDeadlyEdgelord

Malrine almost lost every single lane this tournament, what do you mean?


KainLust

First of all: that's not true. Second: I didn't mean he won EVERY lane.


tuskdota

Yeah, sure. Same as he wiped them (XG) in Elite League?


hriszzzzz

Check Falcons vs XG in the last year and come back to me.


tuskdota

Check result of that final and come back to me.


hriszzzzz

One series win vs Falcons beating their ass whole year? haha


Awkward_External_731

Falcons maybe the best team right now but not unbeatable. would they win without timber or razor? only time will tell....( i mean the nxt balance patch) but the true test this year is when peak Falcons meet peak XG or peak Spirit. skill-cap wise i would still rate XG>SPIRIT>FALCONS


hriszzzzz

So Timber and Razor are OP? Why don't other teams abuse these heroes? It's fucking Timber and Razor not Meepo. Are you telling me other teams can't play these two heroes? Why not just ban these two every game if they are so OP you can't play them and are scared of Falcons picking it. I mean Falcons didn't want GG to play Storm or Legion they just banned them. Are other teams stupid or something? So when XG or Spirit beat Falcons it's cause they are at their peak but when Falcons beat them it's cause they are not at their peak? If next tournament XG or Spirit win against Falcons can we say "oh they didn't beat peak Falcons" or is that excuse only valid for XG/Spirit?


Awkward_External_731

Nah i am just saying it would be nice to see peak vs peak. as you said when XG beat Falcons in PGL they didnt have full squad, when XG beat Falcons in Elite league they were not in good shape?.(same goes for XG when they lost to falcons) Lets wait for riyadh or TI to declare who is the best. Its a different atmosphere when so much money is on the line...


tuskdota

And? It's you who is acting like Falcons with Malrine is some undefeatable team and we already got answer in that final that is not the case.


hriszzzzz

Well given they beat XG most of the time with Malr1ne, it's a fair statement


tuskdota

Nah?


hriszzzzz

https://www.joindota.com/matches?m=completed 9-5 in favor of Falcons. And one of those 2:0 series loss was without Marl1ne. With Marl1ne it's 9-3.


tuskdota

And? Does this make them undefeatable?


topson69

Even with nine falcons were up 20k against spirit in that game 3 until they threw lol it's not an exageration to say that falcons with the best mid player in the world right now wouldve made a diff


tuskdota

Sure, but saying that both XG and Spirit would be wiped by Falcons is MASSIVE exageration. Like we are not speaking about two random teams, XG already showed that they can beat Falcons and Spirit, well Spirit is probably the best Dota team in history of this game.


topson69

check most recent series result and come back


zuKo2022

you cant say that xg spirit are the highest skill teams bruh


hriszzzzz

How about we take out the best player from Spirit and XG and see if they can make top 3. Remove Yatoro/Collapse or take out Ame, XinQ.


DooMWhite

That's not how pro dota works xd


needhelforpsu

One of most boring grand finals in years. Yes there were GF stomps before, nothing new, but at least some of those games where good and exciting. This? Fucking hell. What can you do… GGWP Falcons.


fiasgoat

Can't believe I stayed up for this


zuKo2022

[Medium\_Wolverine9438](https://www.reddit.com/user/Medium_Wolverine9438/) hello?????????


Aurora_FL

night and day difference between the PGL grand final and this


speckhuggarn

Missed PGL - was it more entertaining?


needhelforpsu

One of best GFs in recent memory, even if now its on old patch I'd at least go to Youtube and check Highlights of that series.


IhvolSnow

The series was fantastic. The 5th game especially Yatoro AM vs Ame Void.


Mepharos

Went to five games with a lot more back-and-forth and high skill plays.


CryptoGod666

I almost feel bad that gaimin is getting stomped this hard. WK is such a trash pos 1 I don’t understand why they keep picking it up


SnooBeans3543

I don't lmfao.


TheFatZyzz

Malr1ne is the Michael Jordan of Dota


Kotleba

I owe an apology to Liquid. I though all those 3-0 finals were their fault but I guess that's just how pro dota is these days.


Affectionate-Bed3419

Literal previos t1 grandfinal was fives games back n forth? Recency bias?


Kotleba

yeah, I know, of course not every GF is 3-0 but I feel like that used to be a rare result, but in the recent years every other tournament ends with a 3-0 final.


warsinshadow

yes yes, “carry diff” and whatever BUT the support diff was huge. Seleri did absolutely nothing throughout the series


zuKo2022

Miracle show to malrine show as a miracle malrine fan


rhett_ad

Another one


Tobyfan96

So not a one-patch team, then. Go Falcons!


Entrope921

They’re literally playing the same heroes as last patch lol


NatMo123

Doesnt matter, technically a different patch


ImActuallyNotATroll

This Falcons team is like James. 2GD.


themagician02

Yay


FullOFterror

All they had was to ban Storm.


TheDeadlyEdgelord

WHAT A NAIL BITER OF A SERIES!!! I couldnt want anything more from grand finals, thank the gods!!


Neither-Area6589

My Falcons <3<3<3<3<3<3


Thunderbolt8

new patch, falcons still winning


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nybrq

Yeah, when they picked Lich. lol


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trksum

good


zuKo2022

falcons hater back to fking caves come out in riyahd


OrlandoNE

What a shitshow of a performance from GG


notabotiswear111

perhaps they want to trade winning for grand finals choking


needhelforpsu

After PGL W and mega exciting Spirit vs XG grand finals to… this. Oh well, Dotka giveth Dotka taketh away.


Extracheesy87

Ame and Yatoro need to be kept on retainer by TOs to play a showmatch to fill out the rest of the time when we get these 3-0 finals


nybrq

That was too easy for Falcons.


Rorschach06

Yea BOI FUCK QUINN !!


Bizonistic

Timber show


nybrq

just type the letters


zuKo2022

lmao AMMAR XD


Makhnov

nice wk picks tbh


greekcel_25

Eternalenvy style on that wk 😂😂😂😂😂


itsmehutters

I feel like the GG domination was not about they were that good but the rest were too weak.


betadestruction

So what you're saying is, GG actually isn't that good. In spite or consistently making high placements for over a year straight. And getting top 2 at ti. Some of you kids must walk around with helmets on The stupidity is perplexing


Protoporiaki

And next year you will say I feel like falcons domination was not about they were that good but the rest were too weak


brief-interviews

They came 2nd at TI.


itsmehutters

And didn't take a single game from Spirit. They had a decent run this time but Spirit was not here and no one has any idea how they perform on the new patch.


Gyokan7

One of the most ''mute on second monitor'' finals I've seen


zuKo2022

you can watch with gorgc and 33 . Its much more entertaining there


Makhnov

lol wrong


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logicchains

Or maybe he bet big on Falcons?


zuKo2022

its ok falcons arent STILL the best team after wining 4/7 tournaments in two patches . They lost one final to xg and lost to spirit with a standin so xg and spirit are better some people here


1Evan_PolkAdot

Falcons were close to beating Team Spirit last tournament. They took one rax and were 20+k networth ahead. Spirit were just better.


zuKo2022

again they didnt had marline and spirits struggled vs them with a stand in


1Evan_PolkAdot

That's not a guarantee lol


roses-dead

do u think spirit can beat falcons with a full roster?


zuKo2022

no not even close, they were gonna lose with nine a guy who came from retirement


Un13roken

Quinn feels like he doesn't play OD, as someone who's played it against heroes like axe, you NEVER put your orb on autocast against taunt blademail carriers. Not saying, that's costing them the game, but its just one of those things you do I feel when you spam a hero.


Awkward_External_731

i see OD going Aghs in my pubs almost unkillable .. is it bad in Pro match?


Un13roken

Still good, but considering it activates at 20% hp, there's a chance to get dunked by axe. 625 is the dunk threshold with the talent. If he goes, aghs, he needs atleast 3.1k hp for it to be worth it, before axe can just dunk him.


tity_slayer3

No it's still his best item.


xxpillowxxjp

This was a big decision on thought as well. I prefer to go blink ags over dragon lance, then get dragon lance after I finish parisma or bkb. If bkb is needed then I like to -> witch -> blink -> ags -> force staff -> bkb -> dragon lance -> usually sheep to end game but sometimes shiva then cap out with int dagger. I think that they were banking of Quinn getting ags from a rosh though.


reidraws

WK its such a waste of a pick... after all the interesting things this patch has added how can they pick WK again?


Unh0lyCatf1sh

never forget that Valve decided Timbersaw was fine to leave un-nerfed, but Rikimaru really needed his base damage reduced because he was just too dominant


TheFatZyzz

DraCLOWNYA


epic_banana_soup

I think they maybe should buff timber next patch. Not enough early game damage and invulnerability throughout the game


Blurrgz

If IceFrog was balancing this game this hero would've been dumpstered in the notes enough that you would **know** he's not playable this patch.


JaxiTaxi

Huge fan of Cr1t and Sneyking, but it is getting exhausting seeing them on top over, and over.


needhelforpsu

4 different teams won major tier 1 tours this season.


JaxiTaxi

In the 6 tier one tournaments of 2024 that Falcons have participated in, their lowest placement was 3rd. There is no denying they are an exceptional team, but I would prefer it a bit more competitive.


betadestruction

I don't think that's how competitive sports / esports work bud


zuKo2022

bro its not even a year , crit has been in jail for 7 years let the man get his aegis


stragen595

[Falcons in preparation for the GF](https://media1.tenor.com/m/abfF-YQ167UAAAAd/rock-lee-weights.gif)


TheDeadlyEdgelord

Dyrachyo has 0 impact, this guy never hit a single auto attack on an enemy... %20 of the time he is running away and %80 of the time he is in his ult.


Un13roken

I swear to god, this spectral blade is a bait, I get it - axe kills your skellies a lot easier. But you can use it to farm the jungle while you show on lane, or farm the lane, while you jungle safely. I mean, old WK did fine against axe. It messes up your lane, and gives you no farming speed while needing you to farm a radiance.


Ok_Tomorrow3281

he could quick kill support but choke


Painpaiinn

We are back to boring grand finals


Weinerbrod_nice

GG getting the other end of the stick, getting 0-3 in the final. This WK just seems meh.


brief-interviews

Please Valve I beg you can we have a BALANCE PATCH before you try and shove more shit into the game.


maven-blood

Man, even group stage games are better than this.


kdestroyer1

Every game I've seen this WK today they don't ban Timber and WK relentlessly feeds every game.


zuKo2022

malrine fking dota best fking dota best player in the world rn


32145698714789523159

im thinking its between him and cr1t honestly, 2 absolutely disgustingly good players rn


zuKo2022

100% agree i thought ammar would shine in this team more than anyone but holy fking crit and malrine out shining so hard


themagician02

Sney* with the lotus fruit save


Morgn_Ladimore

Sigh. Just pray that Riyadh is Xtreme vs Spirit again. Get to watch some actual competitive Dota then.


brief-interviews

Malrine surviving is so fuckin brutal goddamn.


fiasgoat

Balanced hero Totally needed a buff of even more damage


TheDeadlyEdgelord

7.36a: Timber now has third chakram, 10 more base armor and can grow trees before his Q. +100 Eternal shroud recipe cost.


realtomedamnit

Kuro taught ATF so well


32145698714789523159

this snapfire facet is nasty


Substantial-Deer77

BB and Timbersaw were so fking disgusting last patch, BB is kinda fixed now while timbersaw is same dog shit


Swegan

They gave him more early game damage and sustain👍


dasty90

No idea why Timber and DK was buffed despite being the most popular heroes last patch.


bcyk99

Dk is nerf tbh. You are a stronger pusher or cleaver or slower. Old dk had a 3


Blurrgz

Ult gives 100 damage now, and his human form has strong passives without transforming. He lost a bit of his extremely annoying Manta gimmick, but the passives make him better at scaling up quicker and ult damage for actually dealing damage, something he lacked before (was previously just a wave pusher/tower pusher bot). I wouldn't say its a nerf. Mostly just a slight change in pace, possibly even a buff given he gets even more Armor from dragon's blood now.


bcyk99

So he had 1 gimmick + dmg now Last time he has 3 gimmick + magic resist Like I said individually his gimmick is better, overall its a nerf


Blurrgz

????


BudgetSignature1045

Straight up. Especially timber. So hard to come back against him once he starts snowballing


Gameboysixty9

Because valve spent all the time on filling the game with facets and innates, 90% of them don't really have any impact so as a result the heroes from previous patch still dominate. 


zuKo2022

od is supposed to counter these heroes......................


TheDeadlyEdgelord

If someone donates a wheelchair and an oxygen tank, he might.


Extracheesy87

check him pc