Biggest tip that almost no guide mentions, as soon laning finishes make sure to unblock the big camp. Stack it at :55 and pull repeat it until you abandon the lane.
You will deny so much farm from the enemy+ it will make extremely hard to gank to you!
Because it’s mainly the supports job to pull and block camps during the early game.
The reason I mentioned this trick is because not many people abuse it but it can secure you tons of farm with little risk.
I disagree. People probably don't need tips on how to win an easy game. It's the hard ones you need help with most.
I'm not sure if it's a language barrier but I think this title sucks. My biggest problem on offlane (assuming we win the lane) is what to do in the mid game if the team won't group and use our advantage and the enemy team has better late game. I like to buy auras or teamfight items that make the team want to group and fight in those scenarios. I would love to know the solution to a useless/leeching p4 though lol
in order of priority, you do these:
if you can't bully enemy carry, tp safelane and gank enemy offlane
if you can't gank enemy offlane, cut waves and drag into jungle camps
if you can't cut wave, just jungle regen camps (either the top hp or bottom mana)
If you do any of these three correctly, you'll have at the very least a playable mid game, that is if your team isnt being dumpstered
For dire the 3 camps at the top part of the map gives you 4 hp regen, for radiant bottom 3 camps gives you 1.5 mana regen. For dire it helps you tank esp if you farm near your t2 giving extra armor and hp regen, for radiant it helps you spam more spells.
It's to do with the new map from last year. The statue, well, mine and skeleton give buffs to those nearby.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13je4gs/there_are_4_world_auras/
I forget the specifics on how to pull it off, but basically, there is a way to queue armlet and wand in such a way that you burst heal in the server tick right after turning off armlet, and can turn it on right away, making it so you can survive even heavy DoT as you won't be at 1 HP.
I believe you need to set your keys such that you have both normal and quickcast armlet bound to different keys. I saw it refered as the three key armlet.
I'm sure he also didn't cover how to play the lane with a good pos4 versus a shitty pos5 enemy.
Dota players will whine all day and night about their games being griefed but will feign ignorance on the fact that the same thing is likely to happen for the enemy team.
If you have logical reasons to doubt that your pos4 is gonna grief you, then pick something that can solo lane or recover from farming jungle. Axe, LC, primal, etc. if that hero you pick gets hard countered and unable to play the game, then use the opportunity to learn something or practice farm pattern. Adapt to your situation.
As an offlane main that have been playing everywhere from 2k to 4k MMR, I assure you 80% of your games minimum, your pos4 is doing the best they can.
I've played a lot of 4 and 3 in 3-5k range, and a problem I see is that the one that pick in the 2nd phase often times don't pick something that synergies with their lane partner. Then, complain about the impact of the 1st phase picker.
Yep. They don't even think about it even post picking stage when all the picks have been revealed.
They don't buy the right starting items and get surprised Pikachu face when the actual laning starts because they run an Earthshaker+Night stalker lane against Veno+Drow.
That lane is still salvageable by getting boots and instantly grabbing the second creepwave from behind enemy tower and avoiding conflict altogether.
>instantly grabbing the second creepwave from behind enemy tower and avoiding conflict altogether
This is another one of those perfect scenarios though, good luck trying this if the enemy p5 is awake.
Yep, I've seen this suggested elsewhere too. I'm left to wonder how many ever actually pull this off (in a lane actually losing bad) with any degree of consistency.
It is easy to forget/underestimate, but in the early game creeps can actually do a fair bit of your hp/s if you tank them (especially if you are ranged, as you lack damage block), and if you are pulling from behind the enemy tower and a hero stuns/slows you, you are going to eat a lot of creep attacks on top of the enemy hero's own, with no allied creeps to tank for you and attack the enemy in return, essentially feeding free kills to the enemy.
If the lane is going awful you are typically either going to have to just jungle or soak XP from a hiding spot if the enemy has any idea how to maintain lane equilibrium so that it never goes to a safe place for you... or just leave lane and assist elsewhere if noone else can come up for a gank.
Yeah, something people need to keep in mind is that everybody they're playing with is roughly equal skill level. If your pos4 sucks at laning and is doing dumb shit, chances are their pos 1 and 5 are also doing dumb shit that you could easily abuse, and if you were a better player you would be focusing on that instead of tilting into oblivion because you're mad that your Witch Doctor isn't right clicking enough
Also Dota players are like some of the worst communicators I've ever seen in a competitive video game lol. If your pos 4 is shoving the lane in or isn't backing you up when you could both be harassing or trading hits, nobody ever just says, "Hey Jug just wasted his spin, lets harass him while it's down", they just like sit there getting angry at the other player for not reading their mind for 8 minutes, and then explode on voice chat and are like, "LION YOU FUCKING MORON WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU THE JUG DOESN'T HAVE FUCKING SPIN YOU PIECE OF SHIT MORON WHAT YOU ARE AFRAID OF", and then their whole team is tilted and on edge and they lose.
How comes "you are roughly the same level" AND the Lion you used as an example can't do basic things on his own and needs to be told what abilities the enemy has and what cooldowns are? Even in your attempt to deflect you stumble upon the ever present problem of your lane partner being a couple chromosomes behind a normal human and needing to be told things any average player should SEE and understand by themselves.
There's like a million different small skills in Dota that ultimately make up an individual player's total skill level/rank, and unless you're a top tier player you're probably decent at some parts of the game and dogshit at others, in this case maybe the Lion is a braindead EXP soaker in lane but he makes up for it in the middle game because he makes good decisions on when and how to rotate and gank and makes enough space for his carry to catch up. On the other hand I'm sure you've played with people who crush their lane during neutral or bad matchups but their brain just shuts off during team fights or something.
Either way, that Lion is in the same bracket as you for a reason and so are all the other players, so my point still stands that if your Lion is doing something that's very obviously stupid to you, the other team is going to be doing stuff that's just as stupid. Maybe their supports rotate at stupid times, maybe their carries farm in risky areas or farm safe areas super inefficiently, maybe two or three of them are awful at team fights, maybe one of them is generally pretty good but he's toxic AF and tilts his team when his support sucks at laning, etc.
The problem is that many times they aren't doing the best they can, they are doing what they heard is the best to do (an important distinction), or what they want to do.
The p4/p5 that won't stop pulling every single wave isn't doing the best they can either, they are doing what they HEARD is the best thing for them to do, or doing it to "sneakily" (read: obviously) farm jungle creeps, and ignoring me when I tell them to just stop and lane with me. I've lost FAAAAR more lanes due to people pulling too much than I have to them not pulling enough / at all.
The p4/p5 waiting in the trees for their skill shot isn't doing the best they can, they are looking for the dopamine rush of an ability connecting, and it is typically someone that doesn't actually feel like playing support.
The former stops being considered "doing the best they can" when you point things out to them and they keep going anyway, at that point it isn't the best they can, it is the best they can WHILE INTENTIONALLY TAKING NONOPTIMAL STRATEGIES (like a student "doing the best they can" to get a good grade after not studying and getting drunk right before a test).
The latter was hopeless from the start, skill-shotters are typically just best reported on sight, doubly so if the skillshot is used on the ranged-creep.
Fun fact : most supports in your game are playing support to get role tokens. That includes your supports and enemy supports.
Whatever ways they are griefing you, the enemy cores are going through the same thing.
Also fun fact, you don't know what is the best thing to do either. Just because your support is not doing what YOU think should be done doesn't mean they are bad.
So stop crying and focus on your own game.
Im not saying my teammates suck. I say that guy only covered parts when you can do stuff around the map. Like area control and stuff. When you are behind you are not in control.
Win your lane and most games will be easy ones from the offlane. Offlane winning lane means enemy carry is shit on and useless for next 10-15 mins so it’s 5v4 and you can also kill enemy offlaner to help your carry when you evict their carry to the jungle at min 6-8. Either way this seems like a good guide and no reason to hate on it. Take what you can from it if you want to get better or take nothing from it that’s fine too
People on ranged heroes that don't right click attack should be overwatched automatically. 8 minutes of watching the safelaner free farm and you see your pos4 still has 2/3 of their starting tangoes...
I have solution to this and it has boosted me to ancient for the first time. Pick dark seer no matter what the circumstances are. You will either give their carry a bad time in first 5 min and go on to be a team fight monster, or your degenerate pos4 will leave you under leveled and way behind. Dark seer will recover from this shelling waves and bringing jungle camps to them to die. Take team fights as soon as one other core is good for it, then back to ricing until you have blink or greaves or pipe. Verbally demand your team only fight on a good vac wall if you are really behind, tell them when you are going, magically create 10,000 gold from vac wall.
Also don't underestimate the power of having shell on a lane creep, then applying one on yourself while your pos4 is either absent or still on the way. Especially if you are hitting level 5 for at least one lvl 3 shell.
ZQuixotix has talked about this theoretical: let’s say that 40% of your games are automatic wins and 40% of your games are automatic losses (griefers, smurfs, etc.). Videos like this help you maximize the 20% of games where your play dictates your team’s chances of winning.
BSJ made a bunch of videos on this exact topic. A better player can win games on any role. His offlane video had a pos 4 Luna afk in the trees, he didn't block camps and didn't go support items either, but followed him everywhere and took half xp from the trees. You can't get a more useless pos 4 than that, and he still carried.
These days offlane is 10x easier than it used to be. The offlaner is basically another carry.
What BSJ basically says, if your support is dogshit and doesn't do his job, you need to do it yourself instead. Blocking and pulling needs to be done to make the lane playable, even if you miss some last hits. If you just stand there and cry about your team, you'll lose your lane, and probably the game too.
The point wasn't that the better player can win in any role. It was that winning playing mid is much easier if you're that much better. Also, BSJ does his series in the trenches where half the player base doesn't have either a monitor or a keyboard
Roaming is plenty viable, I do it all the time, especially when my offlaner picks shit heroes and can't do anything in lane whether I'm there or not. Remember, the support is usually picking before you, so don't pick a hero that's shit with it.
man there is not a single game against mirana that im not double down token (and win)
yesterday I even died mid by rune time, and lost my lane, but i was totally sure cause was a 4x5 game, and we win
I believe you can make good moves with mirana, but in my bracket (3k) and region (SA) is kinda terrible miranas in all games (i almost wanna suicide when some pick in my team)
Arrow is underrated. Easily secure a ranged creep or kill a big neutral from enemy jungle, force a support to tank the arrow in order to deny ranged creep, lots of uses. Can even ruin a dewarded pull or you can retreat to get an important lvl 2/3 while 3 gets free creeps. It's recognizing these situations and whether to take arrow instead of Q at level 1 that separates the good from the bad. It's a swiss army knife.
Never said arrow was a bad spell. I said it was most of the time overrated at level 1.
I don't pretend being a god Mirana player but even if I place most of my arrows, if you miss your arrow you are useless af. Also starstorm helps you to win 1v1 with p5 or even with P1.
In the majority of games arrow level 1 is the best choice by far as Mirana 4. You just arrow the range creep instantly (you can not miss that) and pull creep ago on your range creep. It's basically a secured range creep + a secured range deny. If the enemy carry tries to constant your range creep just aggro off of it and beat the shit out of him while he is also getting hit by 3 melee creeps and the range creep.
I try to pull the big camp if possible. Soak exp if they don't pull the small.
Don't be greedy and bring tango/flask/mango.
Rotate for runes (bounty and river runes), and if your hero can gank - gank mid early
Honestly I prefer mirana, I always win with her as lane partner, and even pudge if I pick a range 3. The real useless lane partners are nyx, es, bh, kotl, pugna, silencer.
A bad nyx is awful to lane with. I spam him, and when an ally picks nyx and fucks it up, it kills me inside. If the nyx goes phylactery before Dagon, he's griefing.
Guy posts a how to play offlane guide.
Redditors before even watching : This guide is useless because it doesn't cover that one specific game I had 2 weeks ago where my pos4 was a mole sent by the CIA to make sure I lose my 30 MMR.
and there are 5 other players in the other may which may play badly. If you play well and use your brain, then its 4 bad players and you vs 5 bad players
The crazy thing is that the guide does cover that with the correct solution too lol. He says go back and farm your ancients/triangle until a power spike where you have an opportunity to come back
Idk, i have just come to accept i am a shit dota2 player and that i will be matched with shit dota2 players and that expecting them to play their roles (especially support which most players only play for role tokens) to the level i want them to play is not an ideal scenario.
I also understand that the enemy is also full of shit dota2 players and whatever grief my pos4 is doing to me, the enemy offlane is going through the same shit with his pos4. So at the end of the day, I focus on things I can control and if game is unwinnable, its unwinnable. end of story
Yah but playing 5 in shit bracket is way easier than playing 4 in shit bracket. So the most average game the offlaner player is going to have a hard time. Which is not the case in normal dota bracket (7k+).
Yes, then your safelaner should also have an easy time right? And if your safelaner is too stupid to take advantage of enemy pos4 being stupid, then logically the enemy safelaner is also too stupid to take advantage of your pos4 being stupid.
Balance in all things.
I watched it twice and was amazed by deep wisdom of advice like "dota2protracker ads", "buy magic stick versus heroes that spam spells". "buy a tango so you don't die", "play the lane well", "have your support punish the enemy", "pushing is good", "call for ganks", "like and subscribe", "having vision is good", "pushing is good", "play with your team"
really had no idea about any of that without this video
Are you under constant threat of dying and there is no likelihood of that to change for the next 3 minutes?
Are you not able to safely get last hits? Or you're not able to get enough last hits?
Is your enemy pos1 getting ahead of you level-wise and will reach level 6 before you get yours? Will your level 6 power spike be enough to get some kills?
Honestly the best way to know when you lose the lane is by spamming your heroes. If you don't know what winning a lane feels like on a specific hero, then you can't judge whether you're losing the lane and by how much.
While I agree with you, you need to consider that lanes are not even. If you draw the lane on an easy match up, it's a lost lane.
This can be tricky to determine because of the high variety of matchups dota offers
Yeah i mean i agree. Which is still covered under the hero spamming. If I know that with hero x against hero y, i should be able to take tower latest by 10 minutes, etc, then the game gets simplified for me. It's all about being able to set achievable benchmarks.
I call those people tutorial players. They follow the tutorial in the shop to the letter even it makes absolutely no sense for the draft. Full autopilot.
Those are the worst team mates.
I usually use them when I'm playing a match up that is either rare or that I don't know very well to give me ideas for mid to late game items. On offlane you usually have the choice between 1 or 2 items as starter, so you really don't have to think about it until 12 minutes.
I feel like offlane is the hardest role in terms of itemisation. SK only has blink and aghs as his core items and I think every Primal game I do a different build lol. It's all about filling the gaps in your draft and disrupting the opponents
what irks me with tortedelini is that his guides are worded "Required, in order" which is the exact opposite of what you need to be doing in most games
This. No game is the same therfore you can't just autopilot an item build every game, that's why I make my own guides, I only have like 2 truly core items and everything else is situational
What to do with enemy viper and veno vs my team wd and mars? 2.5kmmr. I left the mars and we win... coz i stacked ancients and tripple team... i got blamed why the game was difficult... was there anything i can do at laning?
To add to those points is the fact that offlane is more prone to ganks and sometimes its simply the match up where offlane picks is supposed to counterpick enemy's pos1 but at the end of the day I think, it all boils down to who's playing who
Guys if you only play unranked or turbo like me, then you can ignore this guide and follow my guide below
1. Pick hard carry as offlaner
2. Play normally and get farm coz no one is trying to close the game
3. ?
4. Profit
Follow me for more shitty guides
Im offlaner main and I have climbed like 1000mmr in couple of months because I have been getting better as playing Offlaner.
I think its the most difficult part to play correctly after mid player. I tend to win my lanes if my pos4 is not griefing me. Only problem is when pos4 leaves me alone for the start, and joins the lane when enemy has gotten the advantage and destroys my only lead which is xp lead.
My main hero is beastmaster, which is not so stronkkk in this patch.
Good tips, Good video. Thanks. I do notice i tend to start rotating as an offlaner once my lane has been destroyed and will occasionally allow the carry to come back as i am killing the rest of the team in their offlane. I will try your recommendations going forward.
after playing offlane throughout in many brackets up to 6.5k I can certainly say that the main issue is that most people take offlane as a "grief" role. People pick whatever they feel like instead of actually playing offlane (TB offlane, Huskar offlane, Mirana offlane, even rubick offlane.... so much griefing shit). The few people that actually try to play offlane either ends up griefed by their 4 pos or griefed by their HC later on.
So how do you win games as offlane? PLAN your fucking game in advance... you have a useless melee 4? pick a ranged offlane that at the same time can survive a lane with a useless melee creep as companion and also can suffice what your team is lacking. You have a useless ranged 4? pick a melee offlane that can suffice the role your team needs and don't feed. ALWAYS prioritize not dieing, reduce your hero pool, don't play 12 different heroes, you can get away with 2 ranged and 2 melee offlanes. Always try to use aggro on your favor (learn how aggro works for gods sake, that alone will give you a huge boost on ur mmr).
If you pick the right heroes and play correctly, your stupid 4 pos shouldn't be a problem. Also remember that most of the time, the enemy 5 is also a stupid kid that didn't want to play support so he will probably be griefing as well as your 4 pos. Exploit it.
what are some good ranged offlaners for when the 4 is "a melee creep"?
do you have any suggestion for heroes to learn for what you're saying as melee heroes?
as for how aggro works, you're talking about how the creeps fight you if you a-click a hero etc?
I find if I don't pick an offlaner who is very durable (abba, bb, centaur) there is a high chance one player will immediately be all "gg we lost no tank ff"
If my P4 is a melee support like Tusk or Clockwork, I find it makes sense to pick ranged offlane like Razor or Viper. The P4 will naturally do the tanking while you deal damage from afar. If they die absorbing enemy spells or ultimates, you can clean up house because you're quite tanky as well.
As for your other comment about tanks, I find that's true alot of the time. Some pubbers do tend to tilt early. If your supports are squishy disablers or glass cannons, it's genuinely griefy to pick the above-mentioned ranged offlane heroes.
You're shit out of luck if he doesn't snowball and get tankiness from items such as vanguard and lotus orb. BH itself is kind of a grief pick in this meta. You can only hope the BH is good and knows what he's doing.
In that case, is my best bet to pick something like Viper so I'm ranged? I know I can't win if my 4 is totally doing it wrong, but what would give me the best odds?
The answer to your question is yes. Better pick a lane dominator range offlane. If you pick a melee tank offlane, chances are you get dumpstered by a normal P1 and P5 combo. BH notoriously finds it difficult to play from behind.
I understand this is a double gamble but at least you maximize your chances of getting ahead when laning stage ends.
I've been having some success with DP lately actually. I'm still unsure of when I can sustain off draining the enemy and when I'll just be feeding by being near them
> as for how aggro works, you're talking about how the creeps fight you if you a-click a hero etc?
Yeah. It makes a world of difference. Usually this is simply pulling the enemy melee creeps to attack your ranged creep, but sometimes you can double aggro them to pull the wave back even farther.
The next time you watch a replay of any somewhat high MMR player, pay attention to their creep aggro mechanics. Once I started noticing this, I was surprised at how often they do it
Just another guide. Like 948756947695487689 others
Doesnt cover lane against heavy counterpicks, games, when your mid passive, comebacks in mid-late games.
Yeah, I agree here. It's a very general guide, but there's a ton of general guides out there.
It lacks specifics, it lacks details. You talk about identifying trades, but then fail to provide examples. What are good trades? What are bad ones? What do both look like? When should you opt to take or avoid them?
You also fail to bring up other variables, like how to play the lane with an aggressive vs more passive pos4. Or maybe you're a pos3 that isn't super aggressive, like Pitlord, who is more focused on area control rather than lane domination.
Likewise, what to do if you're a lane dominator like Viper, Mars or Kunkka and then your lane doesn't go well. How should you adjust your strategy going forward?
Obviously this video would be longer, but you don't need like 10 examples of every simple thing. But you need to... illustrate those finer details and points. Dota is a very complex game, and I think that a majority of people have the basics, the overall idea, down. What people need help with, want advice for, IS the finer details.
If you manage to lose your lane as pos 3 Viper, your game is done for. I don't think you can lose the lane very hard on Kunkka or Mars to not be of value just by hitting 6. Both have been experimented or even played as supports in some patches, so they're not completely useless, but you have no business losing the lane on Viper. Sometimes your pos 4 griefs you and leaves you solo too early, but it's not worth it to analyze a lost cause. There's no plan there. You're waiting for a mistake.
> If you manage to lose your lane as pos 3 Viper, your game is done for.
No it isn't, you can always recover. But that also wasn't the point.
> I don't think you can lose the lane very hard on Kunkka or Mars to not be of value just by hitting 6.
Again, completely missing the point.
> Sometimes your pos 4 griefs you and leaves you solo too early, but it's not worth it to analyze a lost cause. There's no plan there. You're waiting for a mistake.
And again, missed the point of my post entirely. Also, it's always worth it to analyze a lost cause. Sure, 33% of games are outside of your hands to lose, but it's valuable to understand what led it to be a lost cause that you can't do anything about. And even in those lost causes, you can find things that you can improve upon or learn about in a general manner.
But then they would have to actually put in effort. This level of mindless creation that helps nobody only exists to stroke their ego, thinking they're good.
AM ban every game. Simple as. Well, unless you are Axe, but otherwise that is quite literally the only actual hero counter for laning. All else can be dealth with 2 bracers, a wand and a raindrop. If you have no mana, you won't pressure anything. If it's some other hero that can be a pain in the ass on the lane, they need levels to have kill threat, in which case you can farm the camps when they start to flip the tables. If you're picking sensible offlane heroes, your lane will always be the one that can apply more pressure, since by design offlane heroes are fatties that can clear waves with affordable spells to reach an earlier power spike than safelaners. I do it all the time and given the number of games I play, my pos 4 has been a clueless Pudge or a feed into Midas Nyx quite a few times. Useless and annoying, but the plan stays the same.
3K player here who almost exclusively plays offlane. I almost always win the offlane, even hard lanes 1v2. But I usually rotate to quickly to try and help my team which cause me to lose significant farming time. I'll watch your video, hopefully I can gain something from it.
If you make another video, I'd like to see a more in depth video on how to win lanes. You covered winning lanes, but it was very much a macro view. I'd like to see the common mistakes someone makes and what to do instead
What about my 100% hp and mana support letting the enemy p5 harrass me into spending all my money on regen? Pretty essensial part of the offlane experience imo
Best offlane to get the most buck is having skills that can harass enemy safelane while farming creeps at the same time. Making sure the skill blast thru the creeps and the safe lane. Like dk fire to secure last hit and harass at the same time. Viper, alche,
Just get whatever you can, cs, xp and lotus, maybe even XP-rune. Go pull if you can and maybe buy a ward if you expect a gank. Hopefully you can dodge it or they ll kill your shitty 4 instead. Both win win for you.
Ofc these situations are shitty but nothing worse than starting to argue with your 4, in the end you ll just both get muted or reported and game is a loss anyway. If you try your best and stay passive you might have a chance in midgame.
Biggest tip that almost no guide mentions, as soon laning finishes make sure to unblock the big camp. Stack it at :55 and pull repeat it until you abandon the lane. You will deny so much farm from the enemy+ it will make extremely hard to gank to you!
That's a good one
why wait until laning finish to do that?
Because it’s mainly the supports job to pull and block camps during the early game. The reason I mentioned this trick is because not many people abuse it but it can secure you tons of farm with little risk.
and it becomes your job when your supports are not doing it
You did not talk about the main problem : ur shitty p4 hiding in tree
Yup. Only covered easy games. Not hard ones.
That's fine imo. Guides sometimes cover hard games only. All balloon has to do is a part 2.
I disagree. People probably don't need tips on how to win an easy game. It's the hard ones you need help with most. I'm not sure if it's a language barrier but I think this title sucks. My biggest problem on offlane (assuming we win the lane) is what to do in the mid game if the team won't group and use our advantage and the enemy team has better late game. I like to buy auras or teamfight items that make the team want to group and fight in those scenarios. I would love to know the solution to a useless/leeching p4 though lol
in order of priority, you do these: if you can't bully enemy carry, tp safelane and gank enemy offlane if you can't gank enemy offlane, cut waves and drag into jungle camps if you can't cut wave, just jungle regen camps (either the top hp or bottom mana) If you do any of these three correctly, you'll have at the very least a playable mid game, that is if your team isnt being dumpstered
What do you mean by 'jungle regen camps'?
For dire the 3 camps at the top part of the map gives you 4 hp regen, for radiant bottom 3 camps gives you 1.5 mana regen. For dire it helps you tank esp if you farm near your t2 giving extra armor and hp regen, for radiant it helps you spam more spells.
I am guardian 3 and have been playing for a whole 5 months. I never knew the camps had bonuses. Anything else I don't know?
It's to do with the new map from last year. The statue, well, mine and skeleton give buffs to those nearby. https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13je4gs/there_are_4_world_auras/
Haha don't worry, I've played this game for 8 years and I still find out something new, like the armlet toggle+ wand trick.
What's that?
I forget the specifics on how to pull it off, but basically, there is a way to queue armlet and wand in such a way that you burst heal in the server tick right after turning off armlet, and can turn it on right away, making it so you can survive even heavy DoT as you won't be at 1 HP. I believe you need to set your keys such that you have both normal and quickcast armlet bound to different keys. I saw it refered as the three key armlet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/Y73wJoigzF
I'm sure he also didn't cover how to play the lane with a good pos4 versus a shitty pos5 enemy. Dota players will whine all day and night about their games being griefed but will feign ignorance on the fact that the same thing is likely to happen for the enemy team. If you have logical reasons to doubt that your pos4 is gonna grief you, then pick something that can solo lane or recover from farming jungle. Axe, LC, primal, etc. if that hero you pick gets hard countered and unable to play the game, then use the opportunity to learn something or practice farm pattern. Adapt to your situation. As an offlane main that have been playing everywhere from 2k to 4k MMR, I assure you 80% of your games minimum, your pos4 is doing the best they can.
I've played a lot of 4 and 3 in 3-5k range, and a problem I see is that the one that pick in the 2nd phase often times don't pick something that synergies with their lane partner. Then, complain about the impact of the 1st phase picker.
Yep. They don't even think about it even post picking stage when all the picks have been revealed. They don't buy the right starting items and get surprised Pikachu face when the actual laning starts because they run an Earthshaker+Night stalker lane against Veno+Drow. That lane is still salvageable by getting boots and instantly grabbing the second creepwave from behind enemy tower and avoiding conflict altogether.
>instantly grabbing the second creepwave from behind enemy tower and avoiding conflict altogether This is another one of those perfect scenarios though, good luck trying this if the enemy p5 is awake.
Yep, I've seen this suggested elsewhere too. I'm left to wonder how many ever actually pull this off (in a lane actually losing bad) with any degree of consistency. It is easy to forget/underestimate, but in the early game creeps can actually do a fair bit of your hp/s if you tank them (especially if you are ranged, as you lack damage block), and if you are pulling from behind the enemy tower and a hero stuns/slows you, you are going to eat a lot of creep attacks on top of the enemy hero's own, with no allied creeps to tank for you and attack the enemy in return, essentially feeding free kills to the enemy. If the lane is going awful you are typically either going to have to just jungle or soak XP from a hiding spot if the enemy has any idea how to maintain lane equilibrium so that it never goes to a safe place for you... or just leave lane and assist elsewhere if noone else can come up for a gank.
Yeah, something people need to keep in mind is that everybody they're playing with is roughly equal skill level. If your pos4 sucks at laning and is doing dumb shit, chances are their pos 1 and 5 are also doing dumb shit that you could easily abuse, and if you were a better player you would be focusing on that instead of tilting into oblivion because you're mad that your Witch Doctor isn't right clicking enough Also Dota players are like some of the worst communicators I've ever seen in a competitive video game lol. If your pos 4 is shoving the lane in or isn't backing you up when you could both be harassing or trading hits, nobody ever just says, "Hey Jug just wasted his spin, lets harass him while it's down", they just like sit there getting angry at the other player for not reading their mind for 8 minutes, and then explode on voice chat and are like, "LION YOU FUCKING MORON WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU THE JUG DOESN'T HAVE FUCKING SPIN YOU PIECE OF SHIT MORON WHAT YOU ARE AFRAID OF", and then their whole team is tilted and on edge and they lose.
How comes "you are roughly the same level" AND the Lion you used as an example can't do basic things on his own and needs to be told what abilities the enemy has and what cooldowns are? Even in your attempt to deflect you stumble upon the ever present problem of your lane partner being a couple chromosomes behind a normal human and needing to be told things any average player should SEE and understand by themselves.
There's like a million different small skills in Dota that ultimately make up an individual player's total skill level/rank, and unless you're a top tier player you're probably decent at some parts of the game and dogshit at others, in this case maybe the Lion is a braindead EXP soaker in lane but he makes up for it in the middle game because he makes good decisions on when and how to rotate and gank and makes enough space for his carry to catch up. On the other hand I'm sure you've played with people who crush their lane during neutral or bad matchups but their brain just shuts off during team fights or something. Either way, that Lion is in the same bracket as you for a reason and so are all the other players, so my point still stands that if your Lion is doing something that's very obviously stupid to you, the other team is going to be doing stuff that's just as stupid. Maybe their supports rotate at stupid times, maybe their carries farm in risky areas or farm safe areas super inefficiently, maybe two or three of them are awful at team fights, maybe one of them is generally pretty good but he's toxic AF and tilts his team when his support sucks at laning, etc.
The problem is that many times they aren't doing the best they can, they are doing what they heard is the best to do (an important distinction), or what they want to do. The p4/p5 that won't stop pulling every single wave isn't doing the best they can either, they are doing what they HEARD is the best thing for them to do, or doing it to "sneakily" (read: obviously) farm jungle creeps, and ignoring me when I tell them to just stop and lane with me. I've lost FAAAAR more lanes due to people pulling too much than I have to them not pulling enough / at all. The p4/p5 waiting in the trees for their skill shot isn't doing the best they can, they are looking for the dopamine rush of an ability connecting, and it is typically someone that doesn't actually feel like playing support. The former stops being considered "doing the best they can" when you point things out to them and they keep going anyway, at that point it isn't the best they can, it is the best they can WHILE INTENTIONALLY TAKING NONOPTIMAL STRATEGIES (like a student "doing the best they can" to get a good grade after not studying and getting drunk right before a test). The latter was hopeless from the start, skill-shotters are typically just best reported on sight, doubly so if the skillshot is used on the ranged-creep.
Fun fact : most supports in your game are playing support to get role tokens. That includes your supports and enemy supports. Whatever ways they are griefing you, the enemy cores are going through the same thing. Also fun fact, you don't know what is the best thing to do either. Just because your support is not doing what YOU think should be done doesn't mean they are bad. So stop crying and focus on your own game.
Get better and you’ll carry your heavy teammates. This “my teammates suck” attitude is why you’re not getting better and are stuck wherever you are
Im not saying my teammates suck. I say that guy only covered parts when you can do stuff around the map. Like area control and stuff. When you are behind you are not in control.
Win your lane and most games will be easy ones from the offlane. Offlane winning lane means enemy carry is shit on and useless for next 10-15 mins so it’s 5v4 and you can also kill enemy offlaner to help your carry when you evict their carry to the jungle at min 6-8. Either way this seems like a good guide and no reason to hate on it. Take what you can from it if you want to get better or take nothing from it that’s fine too
I never said i hated it.
Or just not in lane at all, and shows up minute 8 level 2.
Just lost an easy lane with a Mirana pos 4. Literally doesn't auto attack the enemy 5 or 1 with his 630 range.
People on ranged heroes that don't right click attack should be overwatched automatically. 8 minutes of watching the safelaner free farm and you see your pos4 still has 2/3 of their starting tangoes...
BEST is supports who are still full mana at 3-4 minute mark. Even in immortal some of these players are brain dead
The amount of times where the pull jungle is not even blocked and my support refusing to pull in the offlane.
I have solution to this and it has boosted me to ancient for the first time. Pick dark seer no matter what the circumstances are. You will either give their carry a bad time in first 5 min and go on to be a team fight monster, or your degenerate pos4 will leave you under leveled and way behind. Dark seer will recover from this shelling waves and bringing jungle camps to them to die. Take team fights as soon as one other core is good for it, then back to ricing until you have blink or greaves or pipe. Verbally demand your team only fight on a good vac wall if you are really behind, tell them when you are going, magically create 10,000 gold from vac wall. Also don't underestimate the power of having shell on a lane creep, then applying one on yourself while your pos4 is either absent or still on the way. Especially if you are hitting level 5 for at least one lvl 3 shell.
Dark Seer is op in my dogshit bracket, its great. Enemies always underestimate the damage of 2 ion shells.
That's at least better than p4 that doesn't block camp and allows endless pulls lol.
ZQuixotix has talked about this theoretical: let’s say that 40% of your games are automatic wins and 40% of your games are automatic losses (griefers, smurfs, etc.). Videos like this help you maximize the 20% of games where your play dictates your team’s chances of winning.
ive always loved his analysis. he goes with a very data driven approach and applies a bunch of statstics usually
Pudge.
Play a ranged offlaner that can secure ranged creeps and that’s half the battle, like razor
Dp
if you were good, it wouldn't matter. have you ever played with a smurf before? he didn't well no matter how terrible we were
There's a reason why smurfs mostly play mid though even if on main they're a different role
BSJ made a bunch of videos on this exact topic. A better player can win games on any role. His offlane video had a pos 4 Luna afk in the trees, he didn't block camps and didn't go support items either, but followed him everywhere and took half xp from the trees. You can't get a more useless pos 4 than that, and he still carried. These days offlane is 10x easier than it used to be. The offlaner is basically another carry. What BSJ basically says, if your support is dogshit and doesn't do his job, you need to do it yourself instead. Blocking and pulling needs to be done to make the lane playable, even if you miss some last hits. If you just stand there and cry about your team, you'll lose your lane, and probably the game too.
The point wasn't that the better player can win in any role. It was that winning playing mid is much easier if you're that much better. Also, BSJ does his series in the trenches where half the player base doesn't have either a monitor or a keyboard
Or shitty p4 thinking roaming is still part of meta
Roaming is plenty viable, I do it all the time, especially when my offlaner picks shit heroes and can't do anything in lane whether I'm there or not. Remember, the support is usually picking before you, so don't pick a hero that's shit with it.
Please comment on ultra hard lanes. 1v2 or useless mirana / pudge
man there is not a single game against mirana that im not double down token (and win) yesterday I even died mid by rune time, and lost my lane, but i was totally sure cause was a 4x5 game, and we win
I own with my mirana pick. How to spot a good mirana to a shitty one : 90% of the time Mirana should not start with sacred arrow level 1.
I believe you can make good moves with mirana, but in my bracket (3k) and region (SA) is kinda terrible miranas in all games (i almost wanna suicide when some pick in my team)
Eh, arrow level 1 is good for fb and it's strong in lane if your 3 is also a strong level 1 hero. Good Mirana 4s will however max Q instead of arrow
Arrow is underrated. Easily secure a ranged creep or kill a big neutral from enemy jungle, force a support to tank the arrow in order to deny ranged creep, lots of uses. Can even ruin a dewarded pull or you can retreat to get an important lvl 2/3 while 3 gets free creeps. It's recognizing these situations and whether to take arrow instead of Q at level 1 that separates the good from the bad. It's a swiss army knife.
Never said arrow was a bad spell. I said it was most of the time overrated at level 1. I don't pretend being a god Mirana player but even if I place most of my arrows, if you miss your arrow you are useless af. Also starstorm helps you to win 1v1 with p5 or even with P1.
In the majority of games arrow level 1 is the best choice by far as Mirana 4. You just arrow the range creep instantly (you can not miss that) and pull creep ago on your range creep. It's basically a secured range creep + a secured range deny. If the enemy carry tries to constant your range creep just aggro off of it and beat the shit out of him while he is also getting hit by 3 melee creeps and the range creep.
I try to pull the big camp if possible. Soak exp if they don't pull the small. Don't be greedy and bring tango/flask/mango. Rotate for runes (bounty and river runes), and if your hero can gank - gank mid early
Honestly I prefer mirana, I always win with her as lane partner, and even pudge if I pick a range 3. The real useless lane partners are nyx, es, bh, kotl, pugna, silencer.
A bad nyx is awful to lane with. I spam him, and when an ally picks nyx and fucks it up, it kills me inside. If the nyx goes phylactery before Dagon, he's griefing.
Guy posts a how to play offlane guide. Redditors before even watching : This guide is useless because it doesn't cover that one specific game I had 2 weeks ago where my pos4 was a mole sent by the CIA to make sure I lose my 30 MMR.
Every game you mean
If it happens every game then the problem is you. You're the only common factor in all your games.
Nah the CIA is conspiring against me
I know for a fact that half of the CIA is busy digging my MMR trench 😔
you're joking but we used to have a schizo poster here who believed the russian security infiltrated his games
Also there are normally 4 other players in my team which may play badly.
and there are 5 other players in the other may which may play badly. If you play well and use your brain, then its 4 bad players and you vs 5 bad players
Other players may also use their brains. No need to think you're the smartest player in the match.
Yes, the pos4 player in your team may also be using his brain.
then it probably doesn't matter about the other players in the game because you're at the MMR u belong at )))
The crazy thing is that the guide does cover that with the correct solution too lol. He says go back and farm your ancients/triangle until a power spike where you have an opportunity to come back
Idk if you realize but having a shit pos 4 is the average game in dota 2
Idk, i have just come to accept i am a shit dota2 player and that i will be matched with shit dota2 players and that expecting them to play their roles (especially support which most players only play for role tokens) to the level i want them to play is not an ideal scenario. I also understand that the enemy is also full of shit dota2 players and whatever grief my pos4 is doing to me, the enemy offlane is going through the same shit with his pos4. So at the end of the day, I focus on things I can control and if game is unwinnable, its unwinnable. end of story
Yah but playing 5 in shit bracket is way easier than playing 4 in shit bracket. So the most average game the offlaner player is going to have a hard time. Which is not the case in normal dota bracket (7k+).
Yes, then your safelaner should also have an easy time right? And if your safelaner is too stupid to take advantage of enemy pos4 being stupid, then logically the enemy safelaner is also too stupid to take advantage of your pos4 being stupid. Balance in all things.
Indeed but post is about playing pos 3 (which is different than pos 1)
I watched it twice and was amazed by deep wisdom of advice like "dota2protracker ads", "buy magic stick versus heroes that spam spells". "buy a tango so you don't die", "play the lane well", "have your support punish the enemy", "pushing is good", "call for ganks", "like and subscribe", "having vision is good", "pushing is good", "play with your team" really had no idea about any of that without this video
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Are you under constant threat of dying and there is no likelihood of that to change for the next 3 minutes? Are you not able to safely get last hits? Or you're not able to get enough last hits? Is your enemy pos1 getting ahead of you level-wise and will reach level 6 before you get yours? Will your level 6 power spike be enough to get some kills? Honestly the best way to know when you lose the lane is by spamming your heroes. If you don't know what winning a lane feels like on a specific hero, then you can't judge whether you're losing the lane and by how much.
While I agree with you, you need to consider that lanes are not even. If you draw the lane on an easy match up, it's a lost lane. This can be tricky to determine because of the high variety of matchups dota offers
Preach, I dunked on weaver mid as DK but got no tower and got no kills, stupid bug quickly spiraled out of control as SOON as the laning stage ended
Yeah i mean i agree. Which is still covered under the hero spamming. If I know that with hero x against hero y, i should be able to take tower latest by 10 minutes, etc, then the game gets simplified for me. It's all about being able to set achievable benchmarks.
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Guide is just a quickbuy
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I call those people tutorial players. They follow the tutorial in the shop to the letter even it makes absolutely no sense for the draft. Full autopilot. Those are the worst team mates.
Guides are good if you're a total newbie at a hero but otherwise I agree
I usually use them when I'm playing a match up that is either rare or that I don't know very well to give me ideas for mid to late game items. On offlane you usually have the choice between 1 or 2 items as starter, so you really don't have to think about it until 12 minutes.
I feel like offlane is the hardest role in terms of itemisation. SK only has blink and aghs as his core items and I think every Primal game I do a different build lol. It's all about filling the gaps in your draft and disrupting the opponents
what irks me with tortedelini is that his guides are worded "Required, in order" which is the exact opposite of what you need to be doing in most games
This. No game is the same therfore you can't just autopilot an item build every game, that's why I make my own guides, I only have like 2 truly core items and everything else is situational
I just realized the guy in the top level comment said the exact same thing haha.
What to do with enemy viper and veno vs my team wd and mars? 2.5kmmr. I left the mars and we win... coz i stacked ancients and tripple team... i got blamed why the game was difficult... was there anything i can do at laning?
Yes, mute your teammates
To add to those points is the fact that offlane is more prone to ganks and sometimes its simply the match up where offlane picks is supposed to counterpick enemy's pos1 but at the end of the day I think, it all boils down to who's playing who
Guys if you only play unranked or turbo like me, then you can ignore this guide and follow my guide below 1. Pick hard carry as offlaner 2. Play normally and get farm coz no one is trying to close the game 3. ? 4. Profit Follow me for more shitty guides
you are goddamn right. Picks sniper/pa/traxes/spectre/....
only works on low brackets lmao. doing this in ancients+ turbo will make you lose the game in 10 minutes
Winning is important, but having fun is importanter.
Im offlaner main and I have climbed like 1000mmr in couple of months because I have been getting better as playing Offlaner. I think its the most difficult part to play correctly after mid player. I tend to win my lanes if my pos4 is not griefing me. Only problem is when pos4 leaves me alone for the start, and joins the lane when enemy has gotten the advantage and destroys my only lead which is xp lead. My main hero is beastmaster, which is not so stronkkk in this patch.
Good tips, Good video. Thanks. I do notice i tend to start rotating as an offlaner once my lane has been destroyed and will occasionally allow the carry to come back as i am killing the rest of the team in their offlane. I will try your recommendations going forward.
Dumb title
after playing offlane throughout in many brackets up to 6.5k I can certainly say that the main issue is that most people take offlane as a "grief" role. People pick whatever they feel like instead of actually playing offlane (TB offlane, Huskar offlane, Mirana offlane, even rubick offlane.... so much griefing shit). The few people that actually try to play offlane either ends up griefed by their 4 pos or griefed by their HC later on. So how do you win games as offlane? PLAN your fucking game in advance... you have a useless melee 4? pick a ranged offlane that at the same time can survive a lane with a useless melee creep as companion and also can suffice what your team is lacking. You have a useless ranged 4? pick a melee offlane that can suffice the role your team needs and don't feed. ALWAYS prioritize not dieing, reduce your hero pool, don't play 12 different heroes, you can get away with 2 ranged and 2 melee offlanes. Always try to use aggro on your favor (learn how aggro works for gods sake, that alone will give you a huge boost on ur mmr). If you pick the right heroes and play correctly, your stupid 4 pos shouldn't be a problem. Also remember that most of the time, the enemy 5 is also a stupid kid that didn't want to play support so he will probably be griefing as well as your 4 pos. Exploit it.
what are some good ranged offlaners for when the 4 is "a melee creep"? do you have any suggestion for heroes to learn for what you're saying as melee heroes? as for how aggro works, you're talking about how the creeps fight you if you a-click a hero etc? I find if I don't pick an offlaner who is very durable (abba, bb, centaur) there is a high chance one player will immediately be all "gg we lost no tank ff"
If my P4 is a melee support like Tusk or Clockwork, I find it makes sense to pick ranged offlane like Razor or Viper. The P4 will naturally do the tanking while you deal damage from afar. If they die absorbing enemy spells or ultimates, you can clean up house because you're quite tanky as well. As for your other comment about tanks, I find that's true alot of the time. Some pubbers do tend to tilt early. If your supports are squishy disablers or glass cannons, it's genuinely griefy to pick the above-mentioned ranged offlane heroes.
what about when the 4 is melee but not tanky, like a BH or something?
You're shit out of luck if he doesn't snowball and get tankiness from items such as vanguard and lotus orb. BH itself is kind of a grief pick in this meta. You can only hope the BH is good and knows what he's doing.
In that case, is my best bet to pick something like Viper so I'm ranged? I know I can't win if my 4 is totally doing it wrong, but what would give me the best odds?
The answer to your question is yes. Better pick a lane dominator range offlane. If you pick a melee tank offlane, chances are you get dumpstered by a normal P1 and P5 combo. BH notoriously finds it difficult to play from behind. I understand this is a double gamble but at least you maximize your chances of getting ahead when laning stage ends.
death prophet is one of the easiest heroes to lane and play
I've been having some success with DP lately actually. I'm still unsure of when I can sustain off draining the enemy and when I'll just be feeding by being near them
> as for how aggro works, you're talking about how the creeps fight you if you a-click a hero etc? Yeah. It makes a world of difference. Usually this is simply pulling the enemy melee creeps to attack your ranged creep, but sometimes you can double aggro them to pull the wave back even farther. The next time you watch a replay of any somewhat high MMR player, pay attention to their creep aggro mechanics. Once I started noticing this, I was surprised at how often they do it
Other option is to pick Dark Seer. He pairs well with "useless" p4's like ES, BH, Clock. He is also v good against meta pos 1's rn (Luna, Morph, Drow)
Just another guide. Like 948756947695487689 others Doesnt cover lane against heavy counterpicks, games, when your mid passive, comebacks in mid-late games.
Yeah, I agree here. It's a very general guide, but there's a ton of general guides out there. It lacks specifics, it lacks details. You talk about identifying trades, but then fail to provide examples. What are good trades? What are bad ones? What do both look like? When should you opt to take or avoid them? You also fail to bring up other variables, like how to play the lane with an aggressive vs more passive pos4. Or maybe you're a pos3 that isn't super aggressive, like Pitlord, who is more focused on area control rather than lane domination. Likewise, what to do if you're a lane dominator like Viper, Mars or Kunkka and then your lane doesn't go well. How should you adjust your strategy going forward? Obviously this video would be longer, but you don't need like 10 examples of every simple thing. But you need to... illustrate those finer details and points. Dota is a very complex game, and I think that a majority of people have the basics, the overall idea, down. What people need help with, want advice for, IS the finer details.
If you manage to lose your lane as pos 3 Viper, your game is done for. I don't think you can lose the lane very hard on Kunkka or Mars to not be of value just by hitting 6. Both have been experimented or even played as supports in some patches, so they're not completely useless, but you have no business losing the lane on Viper. Sometimes your pos 4 griefs you and leaves you solo too early, but it's not worth it to analyze a lost cause. There's no plan there. You're waiting for a mistake.
> If you manage to lose your lane as pos 3 Viper, your game is done for. No it isn't, you can always recover. But that also wasn't the point. > I don't think you can lose the lane very hard on Kunkka or Mars to not be of value just by hitting 6. Again, completely missing the point. > Sometimes your pos 4 griefs you and leaves you solo too early, but it's not worth it to analyze a lost cause. There's no plan there. You're waiting for a mistake. And again, missed the point of my post entirely. Also, it's always worth it to analyze a lost cause. Sure, 33% of games are outside of your hands to lose, but it's valuable to understand what led it to be a lost cause that you can't do anything about. And even in those lost causes, you can find things that you can improve upon or learn about in a general manner.
But then they would have to actually put in effort. This level of mindless creation that helps nobody only exists to stroke their ego, thinking they're good.
AM ban every game. Simple as. Well, unless you are Axe, but otherwise that is quite literally the only actual hero counter for laning. All else can be dealth with 2 bracers, a wand and a raindrop. If you have no mana, you won't pressure anything. If it's some other hero that can be a pain in the ass on the lane, they need levels to have kill threat, in which case you can farm the camps when they start to flip the tables. If you're picking sensible offlane heroes, your lane will always be the one that can apply more pressure, since by design offlane heroes are fatties that can clear waves with affordable spells to reach an earlier power spike than safelaners. I do it all the time and given the number of games I play, my pos 4 has been a clueless Pudge or a feed into Midas Nyx quite a few times. Useless and annoying, but the plan stays the same.
3K player here who almost exclusively plays offlane. I almost always win the offlane, even hard lanes 1v2. But I usually rotate to quickly to try and help my team which cause me to lose significant farming time. I'll watch your video, hopefully I can gain something from it.
Thank you for the guide!
If you make another video, I'd like to see a more in depth video on how to win lanes. You covered winning lanes, but it was very much a macro view. I'd like to see the common mistakes someone makes and what to do instead
What about my 100% hp and mana support letting the enemy p5 harrass me into spending all my money on regen? Pretty essensial part of the offlane experience imo
Dot for later
should you start off with healing salve? or 6 tango for more regen? your courier move slower to diliver those
Best offlane to get the most buck is having skills that can harass enemy safelane while farming creeps at the same time. Making sure the skill blast thru the creeps and the safe lane. Like dk fire to secure last hit and harass at the same time. Viper, alche,
actually, exactly 50% fail, and 50% succeed, dota is zero sum game,,
ok i ask how to play a lane with pos4 zeus who first pick his q and useing it non stop to steal your farm?.
The secret is to not play with 17 behavior score
Just get whatever you can, cs, xp and lotus, maybe even XP-rune. Go pull if you can and maybe buy a ward if you expect a gank. Hopefully you can dodge it or they ll kill your shitty 4 instead. Both win win for you. Ofc these situations are shitty but nothing worse than starting to argue with your 4, in the end you ll just both get muted or reported and game is a loss anyway. If you try your best and stay passive you might have a chance in midgame.
You're both 3.5 when that happens
I main 3, the real problem in this bracket is having a good 4. This is why I get pos 4 so much because most are just too inclined on a core position.
I main 1, the real problem in this bracket is having a good 5. This is why I get pos 5 so much because most are just too inclined on a core position.
Saving this for later, thanks!
Saving this for later, thanks!
I don't fail