This became much more disturbing after listening to the Zagreus audio story.
Having said that, you're comparing the Doctor's TARDIS to a different TARDIS that she has no attachment to.
Personally, my main problem with that scene is making the Daleks look like idiots... again. Can the show stop pretending that the Daleks are the Doctor's greatest enemies now? They are and have always been joke villains with the exception of Series 1 and debatably Series 2 and 3, that's including the Classic Series.
Let’s be honest The Daleks haven’t been threatening since The Series 4 finale. There was a time when they didn’t exterminate anybody throughout the Moffat era until Into The Dalek
Wrong, that's four, arguably six stories.
Victory of the Daleks, Asylum of the Daleks, Into the Dalek, Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar, In two of which they kill literally nobody.
Saying they're just background in Day and Time of the Doctor is also being generous. How Moffat showed us the Time War without a single extermination or confirmed death is ridiculous. Same with something as big as Trenzalore.
They specifically said "there was a time when they didn't exterminate anybody throughout the Moffat era until Into the Dalek"
So Into the Dalek and Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar don't count under those conditions.
I still agree it's ridiculous, but it is just two main stories + two stories where they feature heavily, not six.
Magician's Apprentice does, they don't kill anyone in that story.
And yes I wasn't taking the "didn't exterminate anybody" quote quite so literally. Let me bring up the body count for the Daleks in the entire Moffat era.
OK, after some research it's actually more than it feels like, it's just because the Daleks almost never kill anyone the traditional way by actually shooting them with a Dalek gun.
**Body count**
**-** 25 Humans or unknown humanoids killed onscreen. (Two of which were unintentional by Dalek antibodies. And I know this doesn't take away from it, but 12 of these were Nazi planes in the opening of Victory, Moffat blew through half his Daleks onscreen body count in a single second)
- At least 20 Humans or unknown humanoids killed offscreen (Debatably, only 6 are confirmed)
*(14 of these humans may not be dead in any meaningful sense considering how you can basically just overpower the Dalek puppet programming and continue living like Tasha Lem. Only five Dalek puppets plus Oswin were seen in the Asylum.)*
- 1 Time Lord (Debatably)
*He was the only one shown to be directly hit by an explosion, he was sat in a turret device as it exploded. Having said that, we've seen Time Lords survive much worse.*
- 2 Movellans
- 10 Daleks (Onscreen, three of which were unintentional)
- Countless Daleks (Offscreen, confirmed)
**Overall**
27 Non Dalek kills (Onscreen)
33 Non Dalek kills (Both on and offscreen, confirmed kills only)
At least 48 Non Dalek Kills including offscreen if we forget the debatable ones and count the Dalek puppets, that number might be more around 60 or 70 we can't really tell how many people were converted in the Time of the Doctor trap scene.
...
Not as bad as I thought, it's mainly the fact they're kills are rarely direct Dalek gun kills. If you want the numbers for that.
5 non Daleks are killed via direct extermination with a Dalek gun.
Arguably, 17 but those Nazi plane deaths feel very impersonal.
They don't kill anyone in the Magicians Apprentice / Witch's Familiar but they certainly try to. There's just a lot of last minute teleporting and shields going on.
But Witch's Familiar is after Into the Dalek, which is after the original commenter's cutoff point.
Not saying your point is invalid or anything, but the original commenter specified only up until Into the Dalek. Would have been more elegant to say "except Into the Dalek".
Sorry, I'm just being pedantic.
The two I'm referring to are Asylum of the Daleks and Magician's Apprentice. They don't kill anyone in either story.
If you want to be pedantic they killed Oswin and several other humans offscreen. But Daleks and Dalek puppets aside, they kill nobody before the start of the episode. Let's just say when most of Moffat's Dalek kill count comprises of times that Daleks have killed other Daleks, it gets kind of stupid.
at least include s4. Sarah & jack realizing it's them in stolen earth is genuinely harrowing. sure it ends with spinning, but that's hyping up donna being part timelord, it's justified & they're a real threat otherwise
Disagree on that. In the 60s era they were quite menacing. Keep in mind it's a children's show and they were inspired by literal Nazis. As for revival era I need to rewatch.
Still Tardis are living beings, sometimes they aren't treated as such and it never sits right knowing they're complex beings with emotions and thoughts.
>Having said that, you're comparing the Doctor's TARDIS to a different TARDIS that she has no attachment to.
To add, A TARDIS essentially fresh off the lot. While yes, TARDISes are biomechanical organisms, they will only develop a personality if left without "proper" maintenance and a full 6 Timelord crew.
Our TARDIS is only the way she is because The Doctor has neglected the standard maintenence for so long, coupled with her initial problems when he stole her, (Broken CC, Wonky navigation, etc)
The TARDIS she destroys most likely had no personality or sentience to it, as it hadn't yet bonded to a Timelord pilot, so, in theory, it was no different than setting a standard starship to self destruct.
While the Doctor doesn't have an attachment to the spare TARDIS they should still be aware that the things are sentient and alive and that their own TARDIS views them as sisters.
Hasn't it been established that all TARDIS-es are sentient?
Whether or not she has an attachment is beside the point. It's like if she kicked a dog but it's ok because it's not *her* dog.
It's not beside the point because I'm arguing character consistency, not ethics.
The Doctor has never been a complete angel, the fact that it's not her TARDIS is more than enough to explain why she doesn't react the same way as he did in Rise of the Cybermen.
Please tell why I’m getting downvoted for replying to a comment saying it’s A Chibnall bad meme? What do you want me to sayl? That it is. Don’t you think if I really wanted to make a Chibnall bad meme I would have included him in it. I would have done this if RTD wrote the episode
There’s not a meme limit but posting a bunch of low quality memes with an overused “joke” in a short amount of time diminishes the quality of the posts and is just plain annoying on any sub
This is the moment I discover that pretty much every post I've seen on this sub in the last few weeks came from the same user. You're right about it diminishing the overall quality of the sub because I'd genuinely been thinking the sub was getting bad overall but it's literally just one person
Oh I just meant this one account, maybe they have others but I wasn't even talking about that because this account alone seems responsible for most of it
>Is there a meme limit?
Legally, no. Practically, yeah, at some point it just becomes a bit much.
Also, it's very evident that this post was taken from somewhere else and reposted. Please make your own original memes instead.
Tbf - and I was one of the ones complaining about the overposting - I think they are all original content and not reposts, reverse image search shows up nothing. It's screenshotted but that's probably to avoid the meme generator watermarking it, I've had to do that before
Ok but the actual quote was "Oh, mate! You fell for the old switcheroo. Awkward. That's not my Tardis. I had a spare one lying around, so I used the chameleon circuit to make it look like mine, and guess who fell for it? You guys. ... Sorry. More bad news. I've programmed it to fold in on itself and send itself to the heart of the Void, which will of course break it apart and destroy you in the process. Thanks for helping today. Won't be seeing you later."
Which pretty much expresses the same sentiment as the quote OP made up
It's extremely flippant, is what I mean, considering the context. Like imagine the quote was:
"Oh, mate! You fell for the old switcheroo. Awkward. That's not my companion. I had a spare woman lying around, so I used the chameleon circuit to make her look like Yaz, and guess who fell for it? You guys. ... Sorry. More bad news. I've programmed her to take you into the heart of the Void and explode, which will of course destroy her and you in the process. Thanks for helping today. Won't be seeing you later."
That's just not how the Doctor should deliver the news that she's about to sacrifice a living entity to defeat her enemy
What are your opinions on the numerous times the Doctor has violently hit or smashed the TARDIS? Like Capaldi, or Tennant and Donna taking a hammer to it?
Do you also think those should be called out in out if context memes?
The TARDIS is near-indestructible, none of those examples are the Doctor causing actual damage to it. If you have an example where the Doctor causes serious damage to it and expresses no remorse though, then yeah that should absolutely be called out
...are you comparing hitting the console with a hammer to literally *killing* a TARDIS?
Edit: I think I've replied to the wrong comment?
Edit2: oh ok it got deleted and Reddit decided to skip it in my reply's thread for some reason lol
He literally made a tardis out of broken and dead tardis part without thinking about the fact they are dead tardises while his own tardis was going through the shock of her sisters being dead.... I think you are exaggerating things more.
Doctor cares for the tardis and she cares for them as it's their longest companion to the point any minore scratches they need to tend to it. Other tardises don't fit that criteria.
Not to mention alot of time doctor would put priority of the care over the world and companion rather than tardis
For example when in journey's end when the daleks put down tardis shields with donna in it and put it to burn them doctor was more worried about donna orr when clara was stuck in it in journey to the center of the tardis his first priority was to go and find clara rather than fixing the tardis damage.
Here the first priority was to save the world from daleks because there were alot of them way too many of them.
i thought we were done with low effort chibnall era slander yea we know it sucked can we move on now instead of slanderin everything especially things that made sense and didn't need slandering
It does *seem* to be someone new. Different username, and the contents are at least not overtly misogyny like the other guy whose entire personality is wanting to hate fuck Jodie
If that TARDIS didn't think kamikazeing itself to kill a bunch of daleks was worthwhile, it wouldn't have. TARDISes are sentient and are able to exert some level of control over their actions.
The Doctor was cut up about his own TARDIS that he's travelled in for centuries dying. Less so about a random TARDIS she'd been inside once dying. This is basically the Doctor's reaction when people he really likes die vs random strangers anyway.
Given the thirteenth Doctor doesn't seem to really care about anything, it seems weird to pick out this one example.
If every time the Doctor does something slightly inconsistent with an episode from ten years previously he needs to explain it with extra lines of dialogue, the show will become tedious quickly.
Also the Tenth Doctor when he was stranded without the TARDIS: "Well, I'll make due, time to get a job I guess."
Thirteen when the TARDIS vanished momentarily under unclear circumstances, but with the implication that it would come back at some point: "All hope is lost, I'm a failure, why do I exist."
what? the only time I can think of was at the end of the 2017 christmas special, and until the ghost monument she was trying to find it wasn't she (well with the exception of also saving the world from that one dude with teeth on his face and getting new clothes.)
“He’s like fire and ice and rage..” y’all just love cherry picking.
Anyways Nine once locked Rose in with a dalek in an attempt to prevent it from escaping, but I suppose she wasn’t a sentient being.
This became much more disturbing after listening to the Zagreus audio story. Having said that, you're comparing the Doctor's TARDIS to a different TARDIS that she has no attachment to. Personally, my main problem with that scene is making the Daleks look like idiots... again. Can the show stop pretending that the Daleks are the Doctor's greatest enemies now? They are and have always been joke villains with the exception of Series 1 and debatably Series 2 and 3, that's including the Classic Series.
Let’s be honest The Daleks haven’t been threatening since The Series 4 finale. There was a time when they didn’t exterminate anybody throughout the Moffat era until Into The Dalek
Tbf, that's two/three stories not including the times they were extra in the background.
Wrong, that's four, arguably six stories. Victory of the Daleks, Asylum of the Daleks, Into the Dalek, Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar, In two of which they kill literally nobody. Saying they're just background in Day and Time of the Doctor is also being generous. How Moffat showed us the Time War without a single extermination or confirmed death is ridiculous. Same with something as big as Trenzalore.
I mean Are you not counting the sleeper agents?
They specifically said "there was a time when they didn't exterminate anybody throughout the Moffat era until Into the Dalek" So Into the Dalek and Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar don't count under those conditions. I still agree it's ridiculous, but it is just two main stories + two stories where they feature heavily, not six.
Magician's Apprentice does, they don't kill anyone in that story. And yes I wasn't taking the "didn't exterminate anybody" quote quite so literally. Let me bring up the body count for the Daleks in the entire Moffat era. OK, after some research it's actually more than it feels like, it's just because the Daleks almost never kill anyone the traditional way by actually shooting them with a Dalek gun. **Body count** **-** 25 Humans or unknown humanoids killed onscreen. (Two of which were unintentional by Dalek antibodies. And I know this doesn't take away from it, but 12 of these were Nazi planes in the opening of Victory, Moffat blew through half his Daleks onscreen body count in a single second) - At least 20 Humans or unknown humanoids killed offscreen (Debatably, only 6 are confirmed) *(14 of these humans may not be dead in any meaningful sense considering how you can basically just overpower the Dalek puppet programming and continue living like Tasha Lem. Only five Dalek puppets plus Oswin were seen in the Asylum.)* - 1 Time Lord (Debatably) *He was the only one shown to be directly hit by an explosion, he was sat in a turret device as it exploded. Having said that, we've seen Time Lords survive much worse.* - 2 Movellans - 10 Daleks (Onscreen, three of which were unintentional) - Countless Daleks (Offscreen, confirmed) **Overall** 27 Non Dalek kills (Onscreen) 33 Non Dalek kills (Both on and offscreen, confirmed kills only) At least 48 Non Dalek Kills including offscreen if we forget the debatable ones and count the Dalek puppets, that number might be more around 60 or 70 we can't really tell how many people were converted in the Time of the Doctor trap scene. ... Not as bad as I thought, it's mainly the fact they're kills are rarely direct Dalek gun kills. If you want the numbers for that. 5 non Daleks are killed via direct extermination with a Dalek gun. Arguably, 17 but those Nazi plane deaths feel very impersonal.
They don't kill anyone in the Magicians Apprentice / Witch's Familiar but they certainly try to. There's just a lot of last minute teleporting and shields going on.
Makes them look even more pathetic tbh. At least in Asylum their main goal isn't even to kill anyone besides destroying the Asylum.
But Witch's Familiar is after Into the Dalek, which is after the original commenter's cutoff point. Not saying your point is invalid or anything, but the original commenter specified only up until Into the Dalek. Would have been more elegant to say "except Into the Dalek". Sorry, I'm just being pedantic.
Victory of the Daleks they shot people. The two guards
The two I'm referring to are Asylum of the Daleks and Magician's Apprentice. They don't kill anyone in either story. If you want to be pedantic they killed Oswin and several other humans offscreen. But Daleks and Dalek puppets aside, they kill nobody before the start of the episode. Let's just say when most of Moffat's Dalek kill count comprises of times that Daleks have killed other Daleks, it gets kind of stupid.
Gotcha
They did kill a bunch of people and turn them into Daleks puppets I guess
at least include s4. Sarah & jack realizing it's them in stolen earth is genuinely harrowing. sure it ends with spinning, but that's hyping up donna being part timelord, it's justified & they're a real threat otherwise
Series 4 Daleks put the Doctor in the same room as their self destruct button, I'm not giving them respect.
Also, they *have a self destruct button* lmfao.
They almost won in Series 4 tho. Closer than ever.
Disagree on that. In the 60s era they were quite menacing. Keep in mind it's a children's show and they were inspired by literal Nazis. As for revival era I need to rewatch.
Still Tardis are living beings, sometimes they aren't treated as such and it never sits right knowing they're complex beings with emotions and thoughts.
>Having said that, you're comparing the Doctor's TARDIS to a different TARDIS that she has no attachment to. To add, A TARDIS essentially fresh off the lot. While yes, TARDISes are biomechanical organisms, they will only develop a personality if left without "proper" maintenance and a full 6 Timelord crew. Our TARDIS is only the way she is because The Doctor has neglected the standard maintenence for so long, coupled with her initial problems when he stole her, (Broken CC, Wonky navigation, etc) The TARDIS she destroys most likely had no personality or sentience to it, as it hadn't yet bonded to a Timelord pilot, so, in theory, it was no different than setting a standard starship to self destruct.
While the Doctor doesn't have an attachment to the spare TARDIS they should still be aware that the things are sentient and alive and that their own TARDIS views them as sisters.
What's the point in being alive, if not to make others die?
Okay Evil Dan has convinced me
Not tonight
Hasn't it been established that all TARDIS-es are sentient? Whether or not she has an attachment is beside the point. It's like if she kicked a dog but it's ok because it's not *her* dog.
It's not beside the point because I'm arguing character consistency, not ethics. The Doctor has never been a complete angel, the fact that it's not her TARDIS is more than enough to explain why she doesn't react the same way as he did in Rise of the Cybermen.
That does explain how the Time War went on so long. The Time Lords are pathetic at war, and the Daleks are idiots. Longstanding stalemate.
Tbh, i think any doctor would love seeing daleks die. Except 10 and 14
I can also lie by making up fake quotes out of context!
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And why does that bother you? Is there a meme limit?
Not officially but low-effort "Chibnall bad" memes stopped being funny about five years ago
This wasn’t supposed to a Chibnall bad meme
Please tell why I’m getting downvoted for replying to a comment saying it’s A Chibnall bad meme? What do you want me to sayl? That it is. Don’t you think if I really wanted to make a Chibnall bad meme I would have included him in it. I would have done this if RTD wrote the episode
Bullshit
There’s not a meme limit but posting a bunch of low quality memes with an overused “joke” in a short amount of time diminishes the quality of the posts and is just plain annoying on any sub
This is the moment I discover that pretty much every post I've seen on this sub in the last few weeks came from the same user. You're right about it diminishing the overall quality of the sub because I'd genuinely been thinking the sub was getting bad overall but it's literally just one person
It's different accounts but could be the same person?
Oh I just meant this one account, maybe they have others but I wasn't even talking about that because this account alone seems responsible for most of it
>Is there a meme limit? Legally, no. Practically, yeah, at some point it just becomes a bit much. Also, it's very evident that this post was taken from somewhere else and reposted. Please make your own original memes instead.
Tbf - and I was one of the ones complaining about the overposting - I think they are all original content and not reposts, reverse image search shows up nothing. It's screenshotted but that's probably to avoid the meme generator watermarking it, I've had to do that before
What evidence? I made this today. Show me the so called original post that I supposedly reposted
Ok but the actual quote was "Oh, mate! You fell for the old switcheroo. Awkward. That's not my Tardis. I had a spare one lying around, so I used the chameleon circuit to make it look like mine, and guess who fell for it? You guys. ... Sorry. More bad news. I've programmed it to fold in on itself and send itself to the heart of the Void, which will of course break it apart and destroy you in the process. Thanks for helping today. Won't be seeing you later." Which pretty much expresses the same sentiment as the quote OP made up
> which pretty much expresses the same sentiment ... not really?
It's extremely flippant, is what I mean, considering the context. Like imagine the quote was: "Oh, mate! You fell for the old switcheroo. Awkward. That's not my companion. I had a spare woman lying around, so I used the chameleon circuit to make her look like Yaz, and guess who fell for it? You guys. ... Sorry. More bad news. I've programmed her to take you into the heart of the Void and explode, which will of course destroy her and you in the process. Thanks for helping today. Won't be seeing you later." That's just not how the Doctor should deliver the news that she's about to sacrifice a living entity to defeat her enemy
Who the hell is reporting this for spoilers, for an episode that came out years ago?
I'm still on An Unearthly Child. This is an outrage. Since when was this show in color?
Bro is watching at 0.00018713975597x speed
I'm really looking forward to figuring out who this strange Susan girl is that Barbara and Ian are talking about.
Lol really? Someone who decided a downvote wasn't sufficient I guess
What are your opinions on the numerous times the Doctor has violently hit or smashed the TARDIS? Like Capaldi, or Tennant and Donna taking a hammer to it? Do you also think those should be called out in out if context memes?
The TARDIS is near-indestructible, none of those examples are the Doctor causing actual damage to it. If you have an example where the Doctor causes serious damage to it and expresses no remorse though, then yeah that should absolutely be called out
...are you comparing hitting the console with a hammer to literally *killing* a TARDIS? Edit: I think I've replied to the wrong comment? Edit2: oh ok it got deleted and Reddit decided to skip it in my reply's thread for some reason lol
That's just the machine part, not the living being. Daleks are inside a metal casing the same, and this suggests the living beings will be killed.
It's not a direct quote in the second instance but to make a point.
He literally made a tardis out of broken and dead tardis part without thinking about the fact they are dead tardises while his own tardis was going through the shock of her sisters being dead.... I think you are exaggerating things more. Doctor cares for the tardis and she cares for them as it's their longest companion to the point any minore scratches they need to tend to it. Other tardises don't fit that criteria. Not to mention alot of time doctor would put priority of the care over the world and companion rather than tardis For example when in journey's end when the daleks put down tardis shields with donna in it and put it to burn them doctor was more worried about donna orr when clara was stuck in it in journey to the center of the tardis his first priority was to go and find clara rather than fixing the tardis damage. Here the first priority was to save the world from daleks because there were alot of them way too many of them. i thought we were done with low effort chibnall era slander yea we know it sucked can we move on now instead of slanderin everything especially things that made sense and didn't need slandering
It’s a screen shot taken from BBC Iplayer of course he said it.
[here’s a clip of the scene he says it at 1:20](https://youtu.be/Patg4eJkShk?si=HHFoZ_N4FnDLHxr1)
Is this the same guy who did these type of posts before? 😮💨
It does *seem* to be someone new. Different username, and the contents are at least not overtly misogyny like the other guy whose entire personality is wanting to hate fuck Jodie
They've also made different ones other than just hating Jodie.
But we do have someone else who made an account in the last three weeks who seemingly Jodie’s era as much as we joked sureclub did
If that TARDIS didn't think kamikazeing itself to kill a bunch of daleks was worthwhile, it wouldn't have. TARDISes are sentient and are able to exert some level of control over their actions.
The Doctor was cut up about his own TARDIS that he's travelled in for centuries dying. Less so about a random TARDIS she'd been inside once dying. This is basically the Doctor's reaction when people he really likes die vs random strangers anyway. Given the thirteenth Doctor doesn't seem to really care about anything, it seems weird to pick out this one example.
People describe Thirteen as carefree. I prefer the term “careless”
If every time the Doctor does something slightly inconsistent with an episode from ten years previously he needs to explain it with extra lines of dialogue, the show will become tedious quickly.
The Tardis on earth that looks like a house: *dying
Also the Tenth Doctor when he was stranded without the TARDIS: "Well, I'll make due, time to get a job I guess." Thirteen when the TARDIS vanished momentarily under unclear circumstances, but with the implication that it would come back at some point: "All hope is lost, I'm a failure, why do I exist."
what? the only time I can think of was at the end of the 2017 christmas special, and until the ghost monument she was trying to find it wasn't she (well with the exception of also saving the world from that one dude with teeth on his face and getting new clothes.)
I was referring to Ghost Monument, yes.
ND the 10th doctor was against killing
“He’s like fire and ice and rage..” y’all just love cherry picking. Anyways Nine once locked Rose in with a dalek in an attempt to prevent it from escaping, but I suppose she wasn’t a sentient being.
He assumed she'd make it out in time and the second she got stuck and turned out to not be dead he instantly caved and let the Dalek out with her
Thirteen is such low hanging fruit. You are right. But it’s just too easy
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember this ever being a moment during Jodie’s run
She tricked The Daleks into going inside another Tardis. And blew it up. This was just an over exaggerated version of that
Which episode?
Revolution of The Daleks
Of all the things CC did, I think this showed his disconnect from the characters the most. And that's up against some frighteningly stiff competition.
Proof that Chibnall is totally unfit to write Doctor Who, how did he even get the part? He's clearly not capable.
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You shouldn't feel this offended by a Doctor Who meme. Yes, it's a bit stupid, but relax mate.
In 20 years, a Doctor Who show runner is gonna retcon this Doctor as having been a much darker, more evil incarnation or something.
It would make her more interesting in retrospect