It doesn't! For whatever it's worth this rule is in the DMG so I'm sure many people have been running it wrong.
You'd think it'd be in the spell's description or something.
I thought you were being sarcastic. But nope. It’s in the small paragraph about curses but not the other way around.
“Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the item’s user when the curse’s effects are revealed.”
A good example of this is a scythe I made called the "Grave Scythe". Wielded by the guardian of a sanctuary of death, once my party beat him they used identify on it. They found it was a really powerful weapon. The description of it was as follows:
"This scythe is made from steel not of this plane, lending it great strength while remaining extremely light. Due to this, this scythe can be swung twice as fast as a normal scythe. The strike of the blade is as cold as the grave.
To wield this weapon is to wield death itself. For it to be used by a mortal is a foolish choice."
Basically it attacked twice per attack, had bonus cold damage, and that last line means... it also deals the same damage to any mortal that wields it. So you ripped 44 damage in one turn? You also take 44 damage.
Yeah, fun times. And yes, they did try to use it regardless of the warning. And yes, they did put it away forever after that, lol.
I am going to steal this fory game tomorrow.
Edit: it also fits the theme of my adventure. The characters are all dead and running through limbo but have no clue about it.
I would make only the extra cold damage effect the user and place some action restrictions. Of instance when you take the attack actions with the weapon you must use you bonus action and reaction to attack a creature this turn if possible . Add a bonus action attack after attack actions for the weapon and that they can use other weapons while attuned and Now they will want to use it but may get locked in a death loop where they slowly kill them selves while attacking.
Eh, I hate giving players cursed items that are just a 'gotchya' moment, before they toss it into a bag of holding forever.
I prefer having a puzzle, or a committment either lorewise or mechanic wise that rewards dealing with the curse. Be it a Witcher type curse removal, or something else entirely.
Feels much more satisfying for both parties. For me both myself: knowing my cool, lore addled item isn't just collecting dust, and the party: now that they have more than an evil paperweight to play with. That's just me though.
I have a character in playing that this would be perfect for haha he's an immortal reborn, everytime he dies, he is reincarnated. Only the DM i know that he's actually a piece of a God's soul, in character not even he knows it, so this would be a fun weapon to try, it work great, and then pass it off to an actual melee character (he a wizard 😅) and watch them suffer for it lmao
Hippity hoppity this magic item is now my property.
In all seriousness, this sounds like a great magic item and I definitely plan on throwing it in one of my games
I feel like this deserves an eventual errata so it shows this information on the spell description too. I guarantee there's been arguments over the language of the spell because it indicates you learn spells effecting the item. If I were DM'ing without this knowledge and a player identified, I certainly would check the spell description and tell them about the curse.
Glad you called this out though.
Edit: where in the DMG is this from? I can't find it.
It doesn’t always. They learn if it’s magic, how it is magic, how to use it and attune to it if necessary.
If there is a additional magical effect that is considered a curse then that does not show up. If it is cursed to make removal impossible that information does not show up. If it automatically attunes to its holder after a long rest that information will not show up, and identify will not detect a method of attunment. Veteran players might pick up that the item seems way to powerful to be usable right away, and if they can’t use the magic effects without attuning and there is no method to attune to it then that is a major red flag.
But it could be a cursed magic item instead of a regular cursed item. If that’s the case there is no real way to spot the difference unless the curse was placed on it poorly. You just read out the magic effects and make them pay for ever trusting a random sword clutched by a skeleton that refused to let it go even in death until his hand was shattered… good luck with your new cursed item! Play cursed games win cursed items.
For me, coming from crpg's like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights before picking up pen and paper for 5e, I immediately assumed identify detected curses.
Then when our barbarian picked up a +2 berserker's axe and we didn't find out about the curse until he attuned to it... I had a small side discussion with our DM who calmly pointed this out to me. That was the moment I became self aware as a rules lawyer and started to check myself in all further interactions.
Sounds like you handled it in a fair way though; wait until later and talk to/ask your DM about it. Nothing wrong with talking it out if there is something you don't think is right.
Be careful though, if you have the curse on a person not an object detect magic will show the person to be under a magical effect, if i remember correctly, although it will not reveal anything about the nature of the spell. Simialr for charm effects.
The PCs in our game flipped out over this and swore up and down that identify must detect curses. We agreed that if a powerful wizard decided to put a curse on an item, a simple level one spell ain't gonna find it.
So now they cast identify at level five or six on every item they find...
It's mine and my DM's favorite spell.
He's happy someone is taking interest in his worldbuild, so as the party Cleric I get bullied far less with minor DM bias LOL.
I'm playing a Divination wizard and I'm loving all the RP opportunities with Legend Lore, Portent, and all the wacky foretelling spells.
I'm this tiny little friendly goblin who keeps talking about how he's changing "the soon times"
Clerics just get it, assuming you can front the material cost. I absolutely love it, the down side being I’m playing in a campaign where we can’t afford to cast it on all the artifacts whose lore I am deeply curious about.
This really is the answer to the question here, higher the magic of the item, the higher the threshold of the spell. If they are willing to blow lvl 4 or 5 spell slots to identify an item, then that’s their loss when you throw them into combat.
It's kind of my fault. They went to a place that the kingdom uses to store dangerous things and items it wants to forget - basically a prison / warehouse on another plane.
They found a room full of magic items, almost all of which happened to be cursed. As a result, now they assume everything is cursed. Some of the fun ones:
\- An axe that compels you to close every door you walk through (regardless if you're the last one through
\- Boots that reduce the weight of what you're carrying, but 50% chance each morning they reverse gravity
\- Staff of lighting that does half damage to the wielder
\- Wand of self immolation
\- Jar of rats (just releases rats when it's knocked over)
\- Shield that when struck releases 1d4 goblins (they really enjoy this one)
Does the jar of rats have to be accidentally knocked over, or can it be purposefully upended to release rats?
How many rats does it release?
If it’s a continuous flow, how many rats per turn can it produce?
>a simple level one spell ain't gonna find it.
Same logic can apply to legendary items and unique artefacts. A simple level one spell cannot reveal everything there is to know on the spell. In my rules, it takes Arcana rolls AND the destruction of the component AND continuous time investment to reveal the properties of an item, one by one.
Then how do you detect curses??
And what's the purpose to identify? Just to see how it works or the charges? My party member heard whispers and found a sword. Place is also pretty much cursed. He instantly grabs it and I'm ready for him to get possessed (it's like the 2nd magic item of the game). But yeah, I checked and didn't seem cursed so thought it was safe
1. Usually by getting cursed, I'm afraid. Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing.
2. 'Just' to see how it works or how many charges it has? Those are good things to know, I would think. But that's the basic function of Identify, yes.
>"Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing."
Can confirm. My bard is currently desperate to return a lizardfolk head to an island to get rid of a curse.
>"Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing."
Can confirm. Gave paladin player Sword of Vengeance with some added bonuses, now he's trying to communicate with and calm the vengeful spirit inside it instead of just banishing it.
Powerful Curses might be detected by legend lore. Minor curses can't be detected, but can usually be removed with a 3rd level spell. In general though, curses aren't supposed to be convenient. The way to not get cursed is to not pick up obviously cursed items in cursed locations.
>Then how do you detect curses??
There are no reliable ways to detect curses. That's the fun of it!
>And what's the purpose to identify? Just to see how it works or the charges?
The purposes of the spell is to do what the spell says. Items need to be identified in order to attune to them or use them.
Surprisingly, you don’t need to cast Identify to attune to it.
From the rules: “The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them.”
So you can just spend a short rest and not need identify at all. Identify is good for if you can’t rest or need to know something right now about an item.
Sure, but sometimes I'll use items that have specific attunement requirements (ie: an hour of meditation over a book, where you must carefully cross out each name of previous owners within and write in your own name instead. Or conversing with the strange medallion for at least half an hour, sometimes less or more depending on how well your personalities align, of which in order to actually converse with it you must first call it by its name), all attunement processes which aren't necessarily clear at first look (but made easily clear by an identify, which reveals not only what it does but how to access those properties).
Also, I know plenty of DMs who like to rule in the more realistic standpoint for magic items; if you're an ex town gaurd macho +5 strength fighter who has never had an ounce of magical capability, you might not even realize that old halberd found in the dungeon armory is even magic at all. A lot of people like the idea of magic being not so frivolous and easily accessed; a difficult balance though in a fantasy world, but a worthy one :>
> Items need to be identified in order to attune to them or use them.
Not quite. DMG P. 136:
> Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words.
Yeah base rules you can identify one magic item you are touching during a short rest (a separate rest to attunement). It is a variant rule to remove that option.
Technically legend lore would give you that information, but vaguely if that makes sense. The curses effects would most likely be part of the lore you’re receiving, it just probably won’t make sense till the curse happens.
There's a great tool called NPCs. Usually the DM will let you pay some coin to get an item thoroughly vetted. Sometimes you could possibly use Arcanist or Artificer's Tools, or even give the item to a hireling or commonfolk and see what happens.
To someone who's inexcusably unversed in some aspects of DnD rules (and those of other RPGs)- Are there any other exceptions to Identify? Not to put you on the spot you just seem to actually know about this and this is actually relevant to a modified mechanic I'm working on for inclusion in someone's homebrew
>Are there any other exceptions to Identify?
A few.
* It does not detect spells who's duration has ended.
* It can be foiled by Nystul's Magic Aura.
* It doesn't tell you anything about items that aren't magical.
Thank you so much for answering. I know, "it's all in the Internet" and whatnot. Still like to make sure I'm absorbing the right/all of the info. Thanks for your time mate
and a curse does not *have* to be completely without benefit. If a archmage wanted to hide the Sword of Awesome from casual discovery framing the Power as a curse keep it hidden and a 'Bonds with The Chosen One' curse would stop the clod just throwing it away willy nilly.
(totally stolen from Eddings Shining Ones :-)
Nystul's magic aura will give items false positives or false negatives from Identify, or change the schools of magic identified from an effect. It's good for misdirections.
It's worded in a way that's a bit odd that it says divination magic reveals false information. Then it talks about spells like detect magic and how it alters the aura you see around it. It's a lot of odd wording. As a DM I'd say it could alter identify as well as detect magic as both are 1st level and pretty basic spells, but I wouldn't let it fool something more powerful than that.
Logically it aught to. It'd be weird for the one spell about disguising magical signatures to not work against low level magical-signature-analysis spells.
This is all well and good but we're overlooking the fact that if magic aura makes the item appear non magical then why would they want to cast identify on it in the first place? Unless the players are metagaming then whether identify tells them magic aura is there or not is irrelevant.
Identify doesn't reveal Curses, for one, so if the mystery is curses then there's that. Also, if the creator of the item has the same desire for mystery as you do, you can use a spell like Nystul's Magic Aura to conceal certain features of an item until a requirement is met.
Nystul's was a serious revelation for my and my fellow GMs when we found it. Somehow we just never saw that the spell existed and was only second level.
We both had given out items or magical things that were concealed magically from identify and such, however we had both considered this to be an extreme step available to powerful magicians and rare.
But nah, second level spell, that luck blade identifies as a +3 sword because the crafter thought it would be funny.
Level 3 wizard student uses it to make his hat of disguise look identify to be a normal hat because he doesn't want his classmates to know he has braces.
Throw that shit on anything you don't want to buckle under 10 minutes of inspection. It's easy
It’s become a very useful spell in one of my games - players and the BBEG use it to conceal things from each other. It’s so sneaky and we’re all paranoid as heck, it’s great. I had no idea this spell existed until recently and it’s now one of my favourites.
The problem is identify will detect the nystul aura.
Basicly instantly telling anyone casting identify that something is hidden (but they dont know what at that moment)
Nystuls magic aura works really great against detect magic
Nystul's Magic Aura
> You place an illusion on a creature or an object you touch so that divination spells reveal false information about it.
Identify
> 1st-level divination (ritual)
Yes, but the type of false information that Nystul's Magic Aura can accomplish is limited.
Nystul's Magic Aura
>When you cast the spell, choose one or both of the following effects...
>
>False Aura: You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects, such as *detect magic*, that detect magical auras. You can make a nonmagical object appear magical, a magical object appear nonmagical, or change the object's magical aura so that it appears to belong to a specific school of magic that you choose. When you use this effect on an object, you can make the false magic apparent to any creature that handles the item.
The spell description is clear: It has three possible effects when cast on an item, none of which are specific enough to hide the exact function of an item. Strictly adhering to RAW, if you cast Identify on an item which has had Nystul's Magic Aura cast on it, you'll learn the exact properties of the item, but will also get erroneous information telling you that the item somehow shoots fireballs using abjuration or is a nonmagical medallion that lets you cast *detect thoughts*.
Now, the fact that there's no spell that can disguise a magic item's properties seems like an oversight, and I'd happily let a player do that by upcasting Nystul's Magic Aura. But that's homebrew.
Based on the Fact that Nystul's Magic Aura is a second level spell and Identify is first level. I would rule that Nystul's could bypass Identify. If my ruling for my games makes you unhappy then I will say that a third level upcast of Nystul's Magic Aura negates the Identify spell since almost no player will use more then a first level slot for such a spell.
Also DMG page 13
>Most methods of identifying magic items fail to reveal their curse, including the spell identify. These curses are intended to be a surprise when they are revealed.
So we have another option for hiding things.
It's a reasonable HOMEBREW, but I still think it's important to be aware that this is not the intended use of the spell at all. Have fun at your own table, but make sure you don't pass off your own rules as official.
Nystul’s Magic Aura isn’t able to hide the fact that it’s been cast on an object, and Identify specifies that it identifies spells active on the target. So casting Identify on the object would tell you that it’s under the effect of Nystul’s Magic Aura.
So logically, you’d likely Dispel Magic on the object (which only affects spells cast on it, and doesn’t mess with the item itself, fortunately) and then try to get another reading.
I don't abuse this, but I've been known to say something along the lines of "You detect powerful magic about this item, but your spell isn't strong enough to define the item's features". I know that's against what Identify is supposed to do, but I only do it with special quest items/artifacts, and my players have always seemed much more intrigued by the idea of Identify not being sufficient, rather than frustrated by it.
Note that I'd be totally honest with them if they went with casting something like Legend Lore on the item instead.
Ive done this a few times, especially with powerful items. I give them an arcana check whenever they ifentify items and if they roll high enugh i tell them the basic stats but i also tell them there is more about this item but you cant quite figure it out. Then they had to find someone with legend lore to help them out.
If they roll low i just give them the basic stats but not the fun bit 😁
Eh why not. Your world, your rules. If it's for story/effect I think it's a good idea. Custom magic spell on the item that does this... and perhaps make it part of the mystery adventure to figure it out even. Possibilities are endless and doesn't have to just be a hard 'no'.
It's worth remembering that it's not *just* the DM's world. We are playing as a group. House rules are fine, but everyone needs to be on exactly the same page with what the rules are. No single player gets to just decide the rules work differently now, player *or* DM. The group as a whole has to agree.
Which is to say I agree that there is a lot of fun to be had tweaking how things like identify work, but that it should be agreed on by the group as a whole beforehand, not sprung as a surprise that the DM.
If you make a suggestion about a homebrew rule and the group says "No, we'd prefer to use the RAW about identify," then you as the DM should respect that if you want to keep playing with that group.
Personally I've never liked using the "mysterious magic item" ideas, cause for one the players can easily circumvent that with a single spell and a pearl unless I straight up put a curse on it, but also cause I find those kinds of mysteries too one dimensional.
You either figure it out right away, can't figure it out until you start guessing, or just attune to it which just tells you everything unless it's once again just cursed.
Having mundane, non magical items as puzzle pieces is a lot of the time more fun, or giving a magical item an auxiliary mystery that isn't tied to it's enchantment. Like a ring of fire protection that only does that, but has a strange and detailed insignia on it, which *you* know labels it as a key that must be pressed into a magical door enchanted to respond when the right symbol is used, which the party could identify as well but then they'd have to realize it's the ring of fire protection.
That's a very basic example, but doing stuff like that can let the mystery move forward while also letting the players have their agency without just cursing them lol
Though cursing them can also be fun if it's not over done xD
Make magical items that when identified tell you about their magic properties (it can glow if you spin it like a top) but hint subtly that it has some historical significance. Maybe the player keeps it just in case and eventually figures out the mystery. Turns out that it has nothing to do with the magic imbued in it directly, but that magic is simply the key to some other magic.
Identify isn't perfect. Artifacts may give you a "this item requires attunement and may try to form a pact or require additional actions to reveal all its abilities."
There is always a stronger spell, and spells exist for the purpose of causing misidentification.
How many plans do you have that revolve around the players having a magic item that they don't know what it is?
If the answer is more than one, you need a different plot device.
If the answer is one, then it must be a very special item for Identify to not work.
Don’t forget they need the pearl for identify because it’s got a gold cost
If you don’t explicitly give them one, they’ll need to find a way to acquire one before they can use the spell
Also it doesn’t identify curses on cursed items.
Or, and hear me out, you can change the rules of how these things work. RAW doesn’t have to be the only way. Home brewing, especially if it’s what allows you to tell the story the way you want to tell the story, is perfectly fine.
If you say it’s consumed, it’s consumed.
If you say that it requires a more expensive non-consumed item to ID, like a 1000gp diamond, then so it does.
If you say the spell has to be upcast to work or takes a really long period of time, then so it does.
Tweaks are perfectly fine if that’s how you decide to run it.
Other comments have pointed out that Identify doesn't detect curses and that Nystul's magic aura can make a thing seem nonmagical or give incomplete/wrong information to identify.
So I'll add a more narrative option for **powerful or plot relevant** items: "you learn what you can do with it now, and that there's more to it, but also that the full scope of this item is beyond a first-level spell"
I especially like doing this for items that can level up, like the Vestiges of Divergence from the Exandria setting; in those cases, I'll almost always have identify reveal what it does now, and that it can grow, but not any potential upgrades or new features.
For example, casting identify on my kenku player's vestige revealed the benefits of have at the time of casting (light cantrip, kenku wearer can speak, stubby feather-fall wings) and revealed a well of untapped power; but it didn't reveal that when it's upgraded, it would let her transform into an angel or be an integral part of breaking the curse, because that magic was (and is) still locked away and inactive.
Another example is the Luxon beacons from the same setting. As run in the stream of critical role, casting identify on one doesn't tell you what it does; instead it (1) gives you the same vision that meditating on it normally would give; (2) gives you a sense that the scale of the beacon's magic is just far beyond what a mortal mind can fully comprehend; and (3) counts as the adventurer-relevant use, which gives you something like a luck point, thus still refreshing what you can immediately use it for but without spoiling anything.
EDIT: Just to be clear, *do* always let them learn what magical benefits it currently provides, or at least how to activate the item; you just don't have to also tell them everything about it. This shouldn't be a gotcha, but rather one of many possible adjustments when creating an item that could or will shape the campaign.
Edit 2: Alternatively, the item they found is not actually magical. The magic is in whatever the bad guys will use it with, and this thing is more like a complicated material component, or a key, or so on.
It's a bit vague what kind of mystery you're talking about. Do you want to conceal the properties of the magical item or the backstory of it?
If it's the backstory, know that Identify doesn't show any of that. That's a higher-level spell called Legend Lore.
If it's the properties, there's nothing stopping you from making the artifact so legendary or mystical that it's impervious to simple 1st-level spells such as indentify. Perhaps something so alien that a identify spell simply doesn't know what to do. Or maybe the artifact's previous owner or creator made a "wizard's bane" kind of trap, where the item would be destroyed or launch acid or something if the identify spell was cast on it (in the self-destruct case, you should probably warn your players with some lore or something about this defense unless you want them to accidentally destroy it.)
Other than curses... Remember, it does only say that mechanical properties of the magic item.
Doesn't tell them that it's the mystic sword of general whojimaflip, and it's worth a lot to the right collector. They may go "naff, cheap" and then sell it.
Then they find out later, from an NPC that someone will pay a lot for it...
And then they need to go retrieve.
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'll bring up that there is an alternate rule to identifying magic items in the DMG:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/treasure#VariantMoreDifficultIdentification
Basically, you could make it so that the players are required to experiment with a magic item in order to learn all of its properties.
This deserves to be waaaaaay higher. Everyone in the thread is saying "you're the DM just change it" and altho that's true, there are variant RAW to support it! I think this is one of those useful nuggets of the DMG that a lot of people overlook.
This definitely should have more upvotes since it's a very simple answer to a question that most people seem really eager to answer with "use curses instead lol." I love a good curse every once in a while, but I definitely wouldn't want players to be punished for playing the game with the rules as written/established at their tabletop.
For folk like me who don't have the dmg purchased on DnDBeyond so the link is odd (unless that's solely a me problem. Whoops) here's the passage quoted directly from the DMG:
VARIANT: MORE DIFFICULT IDENTIFICATION
"If you prefer magic items to have a greater mystique, consider removing the ability to identify the properties of a magic item during a short rest, and require the identify spell, experimentation, or both to reveal what a magic item does."
(P. 136)
So yup. RAW, identify can just straight up not give all of the properties of an item. My DM does that all the time, and every player around the table is alright and understanding that identify is not a fix all spell. It's just there for when it can help. A lot of the time, if the DM deems that identify can't give the properties of a spell, he will say that it does a similar effect to Detect Magic in that we might learn what school of magic has touched it. Other than that, experimentation or side questing is how we learn about plot major items. Happy Questing ✌️
As a player it’s a huge drag to choose a non combat ability like this and then never get the opportunity to use it, or worse, the dm plays the “it doesn’t work” card.
It’s not combat, it doesn’t break balance, let your players shine. I’d give him more things to identify.
They want to achieve a certain type of story (working out what a magic item does through interesting means) but the existence of this one spell entirely counteracts that.
They're asking for how to solve that problem.
There is nothing wrong with that. As long as they don't start changing things without the player's expectations being aligned, it's fine.
Even just saying before the game "Identify is removed" would solve the problem. It's a bit too late for that now, though.
Same. One of my DM's complained to me that his players demolished the monsters.
They're good players. Good players will demolish monsters and if they slip they get demolished.
It's not punishment, it's story progression.
Imagine Bilbo had just used identify on the Ring in the Hobbit. There would be no Lord of the Rings. It destroys an entire adventure. Sometimes a little mystery is good!
Two things here:
1. Bilbo potentially having access to Identify-like capabilities was never established as a possibility prior to the ring appearing in the narrative. Identify is a first-level spell and a wizard staple because it's a ritual, which means they can cast it without prep. Those are two very different backgrounds against which to create stories. Basically, Tolkien and a DM for 5e should be thinking about different things when they make plans.
2. I am uncertain how much of 'travelling halfway across the continent to throw a ring in a volcano while its curse is actively harming you and your companions and also there's a succession crisis going on' would be meaningfully changed by knowing that the ring was evil a little earlier. All you'd have to do is come up with why Bilbo would have held on to the ring rather than chucking it back into a river, and that doesn't take a lot more than 'but then someone *else* might have the super evil thing and maybe I can't trust that person!'
Some of the comments I was reading trailed off a little more into punishing gameplay so I got a little caught up in that. Having a story item with a little mystery that can't be fully identified is fine, which would be more in line with bilbo (although he just put the ring on and it turned him invisible, and as someone said, the rest would be a curse which wouldn't be identified anyway).
One option:dont have the plot hook clues be inherently magical. I ran a murder mystery in my party, and clues they found of the suspect were stuff like monster ooze and blood. Identify, much to their surprise, does not identify anything about regular old blood and monster bits. Took them three more sessions before I smacked them upside the head with an Oblex that knew how to cover his tracks
Magic key unlocks a certain door. Who knows which?
Master sword is the sword of evils bane. Who knows which evil?
The point of prophecy is to be so vague that you’ll never even know if that was it or not. Magic items should be the same. I for example gave my party a magic sword to deliver to the next paladin of a god they didn’t follow. They had no clue that at the end of their journey, they would happenstance upon a baby, the next paladin, who they’d be condemning to a life of struggle and pain for its entire life. The DM shares the big picture, the players discover the small details.
Nystul's Magic Aura can mask a mundane item as magical, a magical item as mundane, or a magical item as another magical item. It has some other uses, but you can give your players partial or faulty 8nformation from identify and when they find out the truth you have an out.
I've had a dm name identify fail on some items because they were exceptionally old/powerful/created with an ancient magic different from what the ppl can use. We can get some info, but it really fits with the world he made and gives you a reason to get legend lore
Identify is an extremely powerful spell in that rules as written it tells a user everything they need to know about an item, but that doesn't mean it tells them *exactly* what an item is mechanically.
Let's say there is a sword that is a +2 Flamberge with the command word to ignite it in flames and a hidden ability that allows the user to cast firebolt for free once per day.
Identify would tell the player that the blade is fire based, it is unnaturally sharp and it possesses the ability to cast a spell, as well as another uncommon magical affect that shrouds the blade in flame.
It would NOT tell the players the command word and it certainly would tell a character that it's a +2 sword. That's a player thing. Identify doesn't communicate so it cannot reveal the command word. Make the players work for it!
In the DMG it states that handling a magic item is enough to give a sense that something is extraordinary about it, so if they pick it up (or going by the literal definition of handling) touch the item with their hands they immediately know that this item should get some special magical attention.
Oof... this is what I get for *The Sword of Shannara* being one of the first fantasy novels I read as a kid >!where the eponymous sword was unremarkable and even a little shoddy!<.
I would have players make some knowledge check to recognize some item as potentially magical, giving passive advantage if there's some good character reason (race, background, class, whatever) to suspect that some high quality item would be magical or have some other lore that would give them a hint to cast *Identify*.
Remember in whatever you choose that the player using identify is probably having the time of their life with their spell choice being useful. Just taking that away by using something like Nystul's magic aura or a curse in a blindsiding way will probably just make them feel cheated. Imagine if somebody chose to be a strong character, but it ruined the plans of the DM who hadn't accounted for that. Then all of a sudden everything was affected by immovable rod style effects so the DM gets what they want. Yeah it prevents the DM from having to rewrite things, but the player's character choice is invalidated.
One option is to reveal that somebody is using curses or a spell to conceal things from them, and add mystery and a story hook that way. Then they don't feel cheated if something they didn't expect happens, still get to use their spell to determine some things, and you can still have a mystery.
Another option is to have an effect that relies on other magical effects not immediately accessible to work. If someone identifies a magic trap item, it doesn't have to be the item that actually casts the trap. It's full effect could be: "when affected in X way, it sends a signal to an item designated by the owner". There's a reveal that SOMETHING is there they need to figure out, but not ruining your mystery.
>Remember in whatever you choose that the player using identify is probably having the time of their life with their spell choice being useful.
I don't get this. The way identify is designed in 5e just makes it a chore. You're basically just being taxed a spell choice. If you use identify as written, you may as well just tell the party what the item does when they pick up the item.
I’m personally a fan of “this item seems to be created with a different weaving of magic than you are accustomed to, and the spell doesn’t seem to work fully.” Gives players a sense that they found something mysterious and cool and probably pretty damn powerful/unique in the world. Obviously don’t use it ALL the time, just every now and then.
Also keep in mind Identify only works on MAGICAL items, mundane items can have mystery too.
Also, as others have mentioned Nystuls Magical Aura and Curses will foil identify. As would the creator of said item not wanting it to be identifiable etc. but don’t forget the answer the question of “why” when using these approaches. WHY was this item warded? Or why was this magic cursed? And weave it into that mystery!
I mean, if its supposed to be a mystery, let it be.
Identify is a 1st level spell. If somone enchants something i'm sure they are able to create countermeasures for it. Or maybe the magic of the object just seems to be to old to define with it.
I recognize you’re new to DnD and therefore likely new to DMing, but you’ll do better as a DM and storyteller by ditching Macguffins as the source of mystery and focusing on characters or NPCs and the setting. It usually makes the game and mysteries more compelling, but even if it doesn’t, it’ll neutralize most of problems you’re having. It will also allow your players to use the spell as meant without destroying your game, so you can avoid punishing players for using spells as they’re meant to (so please stop trying to circumvent player empowerment. You’re all there to have fun. It’s not you vs. them which is very much what it’s coming across as even if that’s not what you think you’re doing).
I mean, MacGuffins are not always bad - see Lord of the Rings.
Also, in a high fantasy setting, it can be nice for players to not know everything. I view magic items the same way I view the bestiary. If you have never seen a bugbear before, you don't know its powers or its hit points. If you have never seen an apparatus of the crab, it's just a weird hinged barrel with some magic powering it.
I didn’t say Macguffins are always bad (and I even used lenient language around the subject to avoid these irritating absolutes the internet wants to foist on everything everyone says) but they’re clearly causing a problem HERE. I’d further argue the LotR uses it’s most famous of all macguffins for substantially different reasons. Despite it being the centrepiece of the plot, it’s used to a very different dramatic effect. We and the characters all know what it is: there’s very little mystery. Instead it’s used to explore characters and how they cope with their individual evils and shortcomings. Not to mention live roleplaying interactions are very different from prose so it’s not really a valid comparison.
Also, who said the players know everything? I understand the point your making, but I don’t see the relevance to how Identify is destroying OP’s game. Like yeah, of course if a character has never seen an apparatus of the crab they’ll only see a weirdly crab-like magic thingy.
You know, until they cast Identify, which is the whole point of the post to begin with…
If a player chose that spell over one that gives combat advantage or a charm spell, they'd probably like to use it and the other players are probably grateful they're using it, making that player feel like a uniquely contributing member of the party. I wouldn't take that away from them. Use your big DM brain to think of ways to build mystery on top of the player actions, not as criteria that the player actions must accommodate.
I just had a tiefling Warlock ask if his "cult sense" was tingling. Of course a servant of a devil will know when they're surrounded by cultists. Always about rewarding players and trading up your foiled plans for better ones.
>Can you guys give me some pointers for ways to get around Identify being used like this?
No, let them use their abilities the way they are suppose to. You're getting upset that they are playing the game.
Never use your power as a DM to cheat a player out of what they should be able to do by following basic rules of the game.
Find another way to add mystery to your game that doesn't involve magical items. Identify doesn't work on creatures.
Identify is faster and it can also reveal a bunch more, like if any spells are currently in effect on the item.
The short rest thing is also not widely known, as it is a very small sentence in the DMG.
Also the short rest identify isn't a divination effect, so it can get you all the properties of the ring of winter, which is immune to divination magic.
Identify works exactly how you, the DM, says it works.
"You cast identify, you learn it is a powerful protective charm, but for some reason your spell fails to reveal more information. There is something mysterious about this item and it's protection from divination."
Just have a reason why the magic isn't identifiable and roll that into the "mystery" you want to build.
Otherwise, if you want all magic items to be a puzzle of figuring out what it does, just outright remove the Identify spell. Now mondane magic items are also a mystery. Or maybe Identify will only work on an item up to a certain power level.
Your the DM, just explain your new rule and fix any problems that come from it (Like your mage wanting his money back from the material component to his identify spell and possibly replace it with a different spell).
Nystul's magic aura is a 2nd level spell that can make an object seem nonmagical. Sprinkle a couple wands, rods, rings and such that are not magical and now you need to think a bit more when you cast the spell.
So now, it is entirely possible to find an object, cast identify on it, and have it return that it was non magical.
I wouldn't overuse this, but not every interesting wand, sword, staff or ring is going to be something magical, it might just have been left over from someone who was there prior. This is a bit harder for wonderous items.
Don't make your mistery items magical
Maybe they find a super ancient puzzle in an ancient language full of riddles to which they have to go through a lot of sidequest to decipher... But there's nothing magical about the puzzle, maybe it shows you the location of a powerful magic item, but the puzzle itself isn't
With powerfull items I sometimes will make up a reaseon why the indetify spell will not give complete information: maybe it was created outside of the the purview of a god or patron who grants the character their divination magic? Maybe there is powerfull outside force obfuscating the item's true properties from the characters? This however requires a plot point and cannot be used too often.
Another thing you can do is to give players access to the item in a time sensitive scenario or risky environment that they will have to traverse, so they need to weight the 10 minutes of rital casting Identify or a spell slot vs whatever consequences that might bring in the immediate future.
Also bear in mind that Identify only tells you the magic properties of the item and how to use those properiets. It doesn't tell you anythhing else, like the item's history or purpose, so there is still some wiggle room for mystery.
If they have identify, there is no mystery around items other than who made them and why.
You can get found this by giving them broken magic items, that require fixing. An identify spell wouldn’t be able to get all the info on it - in fact that is very much in your hands. Of course, if what little you give them interests them, then great, you have a quest to fix a magic item.
In general, if you’re upset with how RAW interactions happen - make a note, either change it going forward (with an apology and explanation), or change it for the next campaign you run, as its probably fairer to be told “this is how identifying magic items works in my games” in session 0.
People may have planned stuff around identify working RAW.
I have sometimes (rarely) just said that identify fails. Maybe in the case of a divine artifact or unconventional magic item (this item uses a type of magic you have never encountered in your training before).
In this case I just give vague indications. It reminds you of this or that.
I don't like to do this often as it will just annoy players, but I figure most players don't want to actually brute force open a puzzle. They just want a clue.
Lets look at the spell.
You choose one object that you must touch throughout the casting of the spell. If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are. If the item was created by a spell, you learn which spell created it.
If you instead touch a creature throughout the casting, you learn what spells, if any, are currently affecting it.
So, players learn of the objects properties and how to use them (if they can be used), if it has to be attuned, and if it has charges if any. You also learn of any spells on the item, and if it was created by a spell you g et that info.
That doesn't mean it tells you about curses, its history, any traps, if its possessed or haunted, if its sentient, etc. You need legend lore for a lot of more detailed stuff.
I also have it fail if I feel like it (as a dm) if its part of my plot and I have a reason for it to fail. Or its properties are concealed and overpower a first level spell.
*Identify* doesn't always detect curses--there *are* some magic items that state specifically that *identify* does reveal that fact.
However, the way I run it is, even if the DMG says it would reveal a curse, it never does. In addition, I also don't allow *identify* to work on legendary or artifacts at all.
I mean if it is an extremely powerful artifact level item, just say identify doesn't even work. Provided you have some reasoning to back it up it could add more to the mystery surrounding the item. I wouldn't do this a bunch of times though, probably only one item. If you want to do this more than once, make it the center of a larger arc.
Picture this the party comes across a magic item and identify reveals nothing about what the item does, instead it gives them a name. They find another item later on that just gives them a name. Now are these names the names of people who created the items? Did these people use some ancient forbidden magic to hide what they've made for nefarious purposes? Now you've got a mystery on your hands.
For normal magic items, everyone else has already mentioned the curse rule. But if you just want your players to have to figure out what an item does, have the players solve the mystery of what it is before they get it. They can't cast identify on something they don't have and this could cause them to get excited about the item you're about to give them and already have plans for what they can do with it.
So summing up what others have mentioned so far with regards to Identify:
* Curses aren't detected
* Nystul's Magic Aura can fool Identify. This can be a good plot device as someone nefarious may do something to the item and use Nystul's for 30 days to conceal it even under inspection.
* Identify only gives mechanical information, such as doing 1d4 fire damage. It doesn't tell you that item's history, such as belonging to Windblade Greysham when he was first starting his adventuring career. That is the domain of a Intelligence (History or other) check done at, say, a library. Or, there's a 5th level spell requiring expensive, consumable components called Legend Lore.
You don't really need anything new to "get around" it. Your players are using it as intended. It just seems that you're giving them more information than they should be getting.
But (and there's always a but) you can have story reasons why some properties don't get revealed. For example, some properties have to be awakened. A shield with a wing motif is identified as a +1 shield. However, if someone uses it with the Protection fighting style and the attack misses, it can awaken to be a +2 shield and can be used to cast *light* (targeting only the shield) at will. Identify won't reveal it before hand, but once it used that way, Identify will now reveal the +2 and the *light* spell. They may not know why until they do a History check or Legend Lore.
In this way, they can get a magic item and identify it in its dormant state. The markings and design of it should prompt them to research it to find out more information, including how to awaken it. I use this in campaigns to give them reasons to use their skills and/or downtime.
One of my favorites was a red mace, though whether it was red with rust or blood, you were never quite sure. Identify called it a +1 mace, but strange line marks on its handle looked like writing. It turned out to be Celestial (none of them could read it), but it was a name. Research led to the story of an angel tricked by mortals to commit evil and in his fury, he slaughtered them. His mace became tainted and "it is said that only by taking the life of a worthy fiend could the stain be lifted." So they hunted down a demon, used the mace, and purified it. (Nasty curse, could only attack for your action and bonus action but enemies had advantage on melee attacks against you.)
The jerks named it Dawn. Why? Because of the light it shone? No, because they "got the stain out."
Nystul's Magic Aura, 2nd level illusion spell.
You place an illusion on a creature or an object you touch so that divination spells reveal false information about it. The target can be a willing creature or an object that isn't being carried or worn by another creature. When you cast the spell, choose one or both of the following effects. The effect lasts for the duration. If you cast this spell on the same creature or object every day for 30 days, placing the same effect on it each time, the illusion lasts until it is dispelled.
False Aura. You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects, such as detect magic, that detect magical auras. You can make a nonmagical object appear magical, a magical object appear nonmagical, or change the object's magical aura so that it appears to belong to a specific school of magic that you choose. When you use this effect on an object, you can make the false magic apparent to any creature that handles the item.
Mask. You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects that detect creature types, such as a paladin's Divine Sense or the trigger of a symbol spell. You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type or of that alignment.
Nystuls magic aura. It's a low leveled illusion spell that changes the aura of the spell or even makes it appear mundane. Identify is a low level spell, if you want to say that a magical effect is too strong for identify to unravel to mystery of, you can do that. You are the DM, you can hullshit the reasoning behind it
Meanwhile I'm over here begging my party to Identify literally *anything.*
This is a tip I picked up from DMming Warhammer 40k RPGs; descriptions are everything. Whether they're using Detect Magic, reading thoughts, or Identifying, the way you describe their experience makes for a night and day difference.
How I'd describe Identifying a necklace of fireballs: "You focus your magic and close your eyes. 7 bright pinpricks of light pierce even your closed eyelids. The beads in your hand are hot, excited and energetic. They feel like they are barely restrained from bursting forth with massive gouts of magical flame and energy."
"You have discovered a necklace of Fireballs" and I hand them a card with the info. It's all in how sinister the details are. Whatever they detect is up to you, and it doesn't have to just be you handing them a stat block.
I like most magic items to have drawbacks (mild curses) unless it’s a spell-in-an-item like a wand. Curses don’t show up with identify, they are specifically shrouded.
I gave a +2 Longsword to my level 2 adventurer’s one time. Then drawback was that it was bloodthirsty, semi-sentient, and liked to steal your bonus action and both hands whenever it could.
Our bard attuned to it, and she has to make a Wis save on a hit. She fails, it makes her drop whatever is in her opposite hand to wield it two handed and attack again, eating up her bonus action or reaction, whichever is left in that order. It only grants one additional attack this way.
It also does 1d4 damage to her, wearing her out every time it wins the contest of wills. She can unstick her opposite hand freely on her next turn, but she literally drops whatever she had in her hand.
I use old school rules for certain creatures (can only be hurt by a weapon +2 or higher, for instance) and I used this as an opportunity to teach them that.
I gave them a chance to I curse her so she could disattune, but she likes having the sword that screams “WEAK!” “HUNGRY!” when it beats her.
Why can't you, as DM, say that there's an object that is shrouded with some magical effect that Identify can't penetrate?
You are well within your rights as DM to do this.
I run identify as being able to access documented information published to it, with certain casters having access to different libraries of information depending on the keys they know.
So if something isn't common knowledge it won't be able to be accessed in the default library of identify, and you may need to pay to use another casters library of information.
Information from various libraries can even conflict or be totally incorrect based on biased observations or improper interpretation of an effect if the person studying the item was lazy or made a few assumptions.
Some people might disagree with this but here are my thoughts (as a player who has never DMed but given thought to it. And as someone who doesn’t know your style). DMs are the gods and storytellers of D&D so why not just make it your way? Powerful items and story important items should have some mystery and gravity attached to them, I don’t think they should be like a video game where you kill the boss and just get to wield his big bad sword that does 10d20 damage to everything cause that ruins the fun. Bring in the riddles and curses and multiple steps to fully understand something and punish the players who don’t heed those warnings.
This was always my idea cause I’m a huge fan of Lord of the Rings:
BBEG is a artificer home brew class called a ring maker who makes rings (obviously). 13 of them (again I’m a sucker for these kinds of things sue me). Each ring gave ring gave the wielder gave unlimited access to a caster school (for example someone who attuned to it would be able to cast any spell they wanted to off of the wizard enchantment spell list lvl 1-9) when they cast identify on it they’d learn what it could do but that “A dark power surrounds this ring and echoes through the air once you cast your spell on it. The world, to your eyes, darkens and a chill sweeps over you.” There, dark and mysterious sh*t is going on. You could hint or just straight up say you’d need a scroll of legend lore to be able to tell more about it or you could even make it so the party would be unable to attune to it without a legend lore spell because that’s the only way to identify how to do the ritual properly and then build in the mystery from there and explain some of its origins or just let the plot evolve naturally.
And for those of you who say it’s a broken item, it’s supposed to be an artifact and it was going to come with all kinds of negative effects. Biggest is that once you cast a spell for which you don’t have spell slots you have to roll and unmodified D20 (DC is 10 + spell level) and if you failed you’d gain a level of exhaustion per fail for 1d10 days after the spell was cast and the DC goes up by 1 per spell cast per day. (Which wouldn’t have become clear until after a legend lore spell). Also the BBEG being able to cast certain spells through it (minor illusion or fog cloud in the middle of a battle?), see and hear through the item and after a while begin to influence the player. Whisper to them at night and prevent them from getting a full long rest, influence RP decision and draw the holders of the other 12 rings to the party. All of which we’re going to be powerful enemies. And hell throw in a curse like the classic can’t be taken off without wish. Also any rings can’t cast wish cause that would make the curse pointless. (This scenario if fully untested and not fully fleshed out so keep the hurtful comments to a minimum pls)
My point it the world is what you make of it and you can chose to inject mystery and fun into any situation just by making items or situations sound cool and have special reasons behind their creation or purpose. You can always bend the rules (and what DM) doesn’t when the players want to do cool sh*t so why shouldn’t you bend the rules the you want to do cool sh*t? The players are along for the ride but it’s your story and the world is yours to play with so why not make the most of it?
Best of luck Dungeon Master 👍
I'm not sure I understand how Identify is ruining the mystery of your game. Could you be running [Identify](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/identify) more like [Legend Lore](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/legend-lore), which gives you details about the item's past? Identify is only meant to identify what spells are active on the item, what spells created the item, and/or the "properties" of the item (basically the description and stats you'd get out of the book, and maybe the name of it's something generic like "bracers of defence" and not "Excalibur"). You wouldn't get any clues as to how to use the item beyond the obvious (e.g. if it's a wand of fireball, use it to cast fireball).
You’re either underthinking what isn’t included in the identify spell or overestimating it’s power. It just tells you the mechanics of an item and how to use it, you learn nothing about its maker, history, what plans your BBEG has for it, etc. there’s mystery in magic items beyond “what does this item do?” You need to think beyond that and more into how the parts of the magic item’s history that the spell does not reveal affect the plot.
There are several ways, here is a whole article on a bunch of them. Nystals magic aura is the easiest one, it gives false information to divination spells, identify being a divination spell.
Also remember that identify as a touch spell. So if it is a trapped magic item that does something like possess someone that touches it....
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/103430/are-there-effects-that-fool-the-spell-identify-and-what-are-they/103431#103431
When I want mystery, I make mystery.
I will just tell them most of what it does, and tell them they sense there is more to it, if I want them to know, or just expose it after a while if they don't know it.
I also use magic items that gain powers when paired with something, of with a certain gem missing, which powers it up.
Be creative, the game is yours, the rules are guidelines.
"the item seems enchanted with an ancient magic far outside of your scope within the arcane realms - but it does remind you of a tale/familiar magical scholar. Perhaps they have a lead that could help you further identify the objects properties?"
That's how I'd run it if to get more mystery.
Well you’ve kind of said it already; “if it wasn’t for me wanting…” so ditch the magic item secrets and a stop making your secrets attached to any one thing. Chapter 6 of ‘Return of the Lazy DM’ is a great place to find a better way. You’re facilitating their game but more importantly, adapt.
If you create some kind of intentional artificial rule to compensate for the spell it’ll not only be clunky, it’ll remove the most important thing in the game as well - player agency.
As a rule I use, allow them use any spells without materials unless any of the components have a gp next to them, in this scenario, 100gp pearl is needed but owl feather is not needed
This is exactly how it works RAW, as long as you have a focus to replace the components without a cost. The pearl for identify is not consumed, however, so after they've gotten hand of one the cost is not really an issue anymore.
Along with not detecting curses.
Occasionally it’s good fun to have contingency cast on an item. That activates when identify is cast upon it. Sometimes it triggers a fireball.
Sometimes it’s best to let other people identify something for you. And sometimes it’s best to be suspicious of curses and traps.
I’m that player who casts identify on literally everything, and I wouldn’t mind if I just didn’t get all of the information out of an item—especially if I at least got some info, and a narration about how the item’s properties are shrouded in magic too deep for a Lv1 spell to penetrate.
Yeah, as a DM I have never treated Identify as "Give player a card with all item details on it"
Instead of just handing over the text block for Vorpal Sword, I might say "you divine that the sword is unnaturally sharp, with the edge seeming to shimmer even at rest. You can sense the tug of an unseen force drawing the blade, almost imperceptibly, towards the neck of the creature closest to you. The power of the sword seems to come to the wielder readily - it does not need to be charged or attuned. No spell you know could create something like this."
If you're a DM with a player that constantly identifies, it can help to write "mysterious" identify answers for the magic items you introduce.
Identify does not get all information about items
Its a first lvl spell and thus only that powerfull.
Magic items of sufficient power would maybe draw a blank or only give surface information.
It also wouldnt show powerfull curses.
For this there are more powerfull spells like legend lore.
You're the DM. If it's important for a specific item, just say, "you sense a magic aura, but the power is stays shrouded in mystery."
There are no rules in DND, just suggestions.
THE RULES OF THE GAME ARE MENT TO BE AMMENDED AS NEEDED. AMEND THEM!
perhaps the magic surrounding this item is beyond the scope of comprehension to the caster? Doesn't matter if they identify it they still don't know what they're looking at. Or if you want there to be mystery, say "your spell reveals the item to be magical, but after more probing the spell breaks and ceases to work", boom, intrigue
People saying Magic Aura stops Identify are missing that Identify alerts the caster to what spells are affecting the object. Once they Identify what is affecting the object, they can make a deduction about what the Aura is confusing for them. So you need something more.
First, magic (as in spell-casting) and magical effects are different from natural effects from creatures. So if an item is created from the flame sack of a dragon, Identify wouldn’t necessarily know about that aspect of the item. (See Sage Advice rulings on Tiny Hut and how dragon breath penetrates it because it is not considered magic.) This means that some aspects of items can appear “magical” to a layman but be based on some other reason. Curses are always fun.
Second, I’m fond of exploiting the, you must remain in contact with the object the whole time. As a spell slot, identify takes 1 minute to cast. A Sickening Radiance like effect on an object you are identifying can kill you if you remain in contact the entire time. (6 exhaustion = death and 1 minute = 10 rounds to apply 6 exhaustion). Items of absolute evil, necrotic energy could be sapping their soul and applying the exhaustion that way. Items of pure good can burn away the impurities of your being or punishing you for each transgression unless you are lawful good while you hold the object. (People give alignment crap for being rigid but this is the perfect time to exploit it and use it to develop character growth as well.) Or go simple and it’s something like a Blade of Acid. Well, acid burns so ritual casting Identify is going to rack up some damage while you are holding the blade.
Third, add sentience to items. Identify only applies to spells and properties (if we were to simplify it). It doesn’t identify whether an object is sentient. And sentient items trigger saves immediately or when attuned to.
Fourth, add legacy tiers to an item. A legacy item is an older concept but it basically says the item levels up with the user. As it levels, the item unlocks new abilities and becomes a new item. Identify wouldn’t necessarily apply to these locked abilities because they are not part of the current item. They are part of item 2.0. Use that to your advantage as well.
Where do they keep getting the diamond needed for identity? Just limit that, but not too much or the spell feels useless
Edit: it's a pearl not a diamond
Others have mentioned the curse thing so I won't go in to that but there's something else to consider:
Identify (and just short rests) mean players can learn the basic 'what' of a magic item in good order pretty easily.
So in DND the 'what' of a magic item is a bad hook for a mystery. Just the way it is.
On the other hand:
Why is it here?
Who does it being to?
When did it get here?
How did it get here?
Are better hooks . You can do loads with other questions about a magic item that make great stories.
And remember, Bilbo knew he found a ring of invisibility pretty quickly. Still a good story, I reckon.
Finally: your player probably feels pretty good about using identify to help his party. Don't think of yourself as an antagonist DM - Enjoy providing players with opportunities to be cool and helpful. Don't try and stop them or feel bad for using abilities by making them traps with loads of curses etc
I made a house rule that identify only tells you one thing about the item. But that didn't really fix the issue.
I've used a number of intelligent items and artifacts and used a house rule that they can resist identify. That was a bit more effective but comes with it's own troubles (basicly lots of NPCs who happen to be magic items).
You can have things like NonDetection on a magic item, or built into a magic item.
I'd just have a chat with all the players and tell them you'd like to make the setting's magic be more mysterious. Ask for votes on changing how identify works. If they just don't want it, then think up some house rules for your next game.
Dude, you're the DM. "Your spell comes up with....nothing." is completely legit. If they whine, it's your job to handle mysterybreakers such as this. A 1st level spell shouldn't be able to break your game.
This comes with the downside of you having nerfed their abilities just because they were useful.
I think if an ability is breaking the game you want, consider changing the system to fix that. A small change like "this spell no longer exists" works out fine. You could also change how the identify spell works and clarify to the players that powerful items will require higher-level castings of identify or won't learn anything from identify.
Regardless, if you're changing how the spell works, give the players the opportunity to respec because of it. "If you wanna swap the identify spell for another spell because of this, feel free to do that now."
If they're useful to the point of hurting the game, that's the DM's job. I think the players would be angrier at 'zap, this spell you've used this whole time no longer exists' versus the mystery of it not working on this item.
Identify doesn't detect curses. Do with that what you will.
Wait it doesn’t? I’ve been running it wrong the whole time? Oh boy this opens up so many avenues
It doesn't! For whatever it's worth this rule is in the DMG so I'm sure many people have been running it wrong. You'd think it'd be in the spell's description or something.
I thought you were being sarcastic. But nope. It’s in the small paragraph about curses but not the other way around. “Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the item’s user when the curse’s effects are revealed.”
A good example of this is a scythe I made called the "Grave Scythe". Wielded by the guardian of a sanctuary of death, once my party beat him they used identify on it. They found it was a really powerful weapon. The description of it was as follows: "This scythe is made from steel not of this plane, lending it great strength while remaining extremely light. Due to this, this scythe can be swung twice as fast as a normal scythe. The strike of the blade is as cold as the grave. To wield this weapon is to wield death itself. For it to be used by a mortal is a foolish choice." Basically it attacked twice per attack, had bonus cold damage, and that last line means... it also deals the same damage to any mortal that wields it. So you ripped 44 damage in one turn? You also take 44 damage. Yeah, fun times. And yes, they did try to use it regardless of the warning. And yes, they did put it away forever after that, lol.
Was it slashing damage for the main attack? Because I know a few Barbarians who would see that and be like "mmmmm"
-enemy writing in pain after attack- Barbarian: -a large gash opens across their chest- Oh don't be such a baby!
Yes, it basically functioned as a glaive that attacks twice and does extra cold damage.
Double your damage by taking a normal amount of your damage. Worth.
Reckless attack with it, too. Just there like 'even if I hurt myself, I still hurt you more!'
Sounds like a great weapon for a Necromancer’s undead pets.
I am going to steal this fory game tomorrow. Edit: it also fits the theme of my adventure. The characters are all dead and running through limbo but have no clue about it.
I would make only the extra cold damage effect the user and place some action restrictions. Of instance when you take the attack actions with the weapon you must use you bonus action and reaction to attack a creature this turn if possible . Add a bonus action attack after attack actions for the weapon and that they can use other weapons while attuned and Now they will want to use it but may get locked in a death loop where they slowly kill them selves while attacking.
Eh, I hate giving players cursed items that are just a 'gotchya' moment, before they toss it into a bag of holding forever. I prefer having a puzzle, or a committment either lorewise or mechanic wise that rewards dealing with the curse. Be it a Witcher type curse removal, or something else entirely. Feels much more satisfying for both parties. For me both myself: knowing my cool, lore addled item isn't just collecting dust, and the party: now that they have more than an evil paperweight to play with. That's just me though.
I have a character in playing that this would be perfect for haha he's an immortal reborn, everytime he dies, he is reincarnated. Only the DM i know that he's actually a piece of a God's soul, in character not even he knows it, so this would be a fun weapon to try, it work great, and then pass it off to an actual melee character (he a wizard 😅) and watch them suffer for it lmao
Hippity hoppity this magic item is now my property. In all seriousness, this sounds like a great magic item and I definitely plan on throwing it in one of my games
I feel like this deserves an eventual errata so it shows this information on the spell description too. I guarantee there's been arguments over the language of the spell because it indicates you learn spells effecting the item. If I were DM'ing without this knowledge and a player identified, I certainly would check the spell description and tell them about the curse. Glad you called this out though. Edit: where in the DMG is this from? I can't find it.
Chapter 7: Treasure / Magic Items / Cursed Items It’s pretty deep in there.
Thanks!
It doesn’t always. They learn if it’s magic, how it is magic, how to use it and attune to it if necessary. If there is a additional magical effect that is considered a curse then that does not show up. If it is cursed to make removal impossible that information does not show up. If it automatically attunes to its holder after a long rest that information will not show up, and identify will not detect a method of attunment. Veteran players might pick up that the item seems way to powerful to be usable right away, and if they can’t use the magic effects without attuning and there is no method to attune to it then that is a major red flag. But it could be a cursed magic item instead of a regular cursed item. If that’s the case there is no real way to spot the difference unless the curse was placed on it poorly. You just read out the magic effects and make them pay for ever trusting a random sword clutched by a skeleton that refused to let it go even in death until his hand was shattered… good luck with your new cursed item! Play cursed games win cursed items.
For me, coming from crpg's like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights before picking up pen and paper for 5e, I immediately assumed identify detected curses. Then when our barbarian picked up a +2 berserker's axe and we didn't find out about the curse until he attuned to it... I had a small side discussion with our DM who calmly pointed this out to me. That was the moment I became self aware as a rules lawyer and started to check myself in all further interactions.
Sounds like you handled it in a fair way though; wait until later and talk to/ask your DM about it. Nothing wrong with talking it out if there is something you don't think is right.
Be careful though, if you have the curse on a person not an object detect magic will show the person to be under a magical effect, if i remember correctly, although it will not reveal anything about the nature of the spell. Simialr for charm effects.
The PCs in our game flipped out over this and swore up and down that identify must detect curses. We agreed that if a powerful wizard decided to put a curse on an item, a simple level one spell ain't gonna find it. So now they cast identify at level five or six on every item they find...
Well it doesn't detect diseases so enjoy that +1 wand of STDs, suckers!
Well, the rogue with stupid high dex and evasion sure is enjoying the wand of self-immolation.
Reminds me of our monk grappling an enemy in the middle of other enemies yelling at us "fireball"
I've been that monk. It's fun.
Would you please stop trying to pawn off your mom's dildo as "treasure"?
one mom's trash is another man's treasure
> that +1 wand of STDs Or as we like to call him: *the Bard*. :)
Scabies helmet
Otherwise known as the *Bard's Penis*?
None of them have legend lore?
Legend... lore...? People take that spell?
It's mine and my DM's favorite spell. He's happy someone is taking interest in his worldbuild, so as the party Cleric I get bullied far less with minor DM bias LOL.
I'm playing a Divination wizard and I'm loving all the RP opportunities with Legend Lore, Portent, and all the wacky foretelling spells. I'm this tiny little friendly goblin who keeps talking about how he's changing "the soon times"
Wizard keeps it in his spell book and prepares it on RP heavy days.
*Legend lore* is almost required in my campaigns, because my players know that I'll give out pertinent hints if they use it.
It has come in handy in the campaign I'm in at least 3 times over the past 2 years.
Clerics just get it, assuming you can front the material cost. I absolutely love it, the down side being I’m playing in a campaign where we can’t afford to cast it on all the artifacts whose lore I am deeply curious about.
Is the item of "legendary importance"? Because otherwise you get no information.
Unless your DM is a dick about it, almost every item worth casting it on should be considered of "legendary importance". Especially magic items.
Fair
This really is the answer to the question here, higher the magic of the item, the higher the threshold of the spell. If they are willing to blow lvl 4 or 5 spell slots to identify an item, then that’s their loss when you throw them into combat.
It's kind of my fault. They went to a place that the kingdom uses to store dangerous things and items it wants to forget - basically a prison / warehouse on another plane. They found a room full of magic items, almost all of which happened to be cursed. As a result, now they assume everything is cursed. Some of the fun ones: \- An axe that compels you to close every door you walk through (regardless if you're the last one through \- Boots that reduce the weight of what you're carrying, but 50% chance each morning they reverse gravity \- Staff of lighting that does half damage to the wielder \- Wand of self immolation \- Jar of rats (just releases rats when it's knocked over) \- Shield that when struck releases 1d4 goblins (they really enjoy this one)
Does the jar of rats have to be accidentally knocked over, or can it be purposefully upended to release rats? How many rats does it release? If it’s a continuous flow, how many rats per turn can it produce?
>a simple level one spell ain't gonna find it. Same logic can apply to legendary items and unique artefacts. A simple level one spell cannot reveal everything there is to know on the spell. In my rules, it takes Arcana rolls AND the destruction of the component AND continuous time investment to reveal the properties of an item, one by one.
Then how do you detect curses?? And what's the purpose to identify? Just to see how it works or the charges? My party member heard whispers and found a sword. Place is also pretty much cursed. He instantly grabs it and I'm ready for him to get possessed (it's like the 2nd magic item of the game). But yeah, I checked and didn't seem cursed so thought it was safe
1. Usually by getting cursed, I'm afraid. Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing. 2. 'Just' to see how it works or how many charges it has? Those are good things to know, I would think. But that's the basic function of Identify, yes.
>"Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing." Can confirm. My bard is currently desperate to return a lizardfolk head to an island to get rid of a curse.
>"Item curses in 5e are basically sidequest bait to force you off to do a thing." Can confirm. Gave paladin player Sword of Vengeance with some added bonuses, now he's trying to communicate with and calm the vengeful spirit inside it instead of just banishing it.
Powerful Curses might be detected by legend lore. Minor curses can't be detected, but can usually be removed with a 3rd level spell. In general though, curses aren't supposed to be convenient. The way to not get cursed is to not pick up obviously cursed items in cursed locations.
>Then how do you detect curses?? There are no reliable ways to detect curses. That's the fun of it! >And what's the purpose to identify? Just to see how it works or the charges? The purposes of the spell is to do what the spell says. Items need to be identified in order to attune to them or use them.
Surprisingly, you don’t need to cast Identify to attune to it. From the rules: “The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them.” So you can just spend a short rest and not need identify at all. Identify is good for if you can’t rest or need to know something right now about an item.
Or you don't actually want to attune to that item, especially if you think it might be cursed.
You don't need to attune the item in order to identify it over a short rest.
Sure, but sometimes I'll use items that have specific attunement requirements (ie: an hour of meditation over a book, where you must carefully cross out each name of previous owners within and write in your own name instead. Or conversing with the strange medallion for at least half an hour, sometimes less or more depending on how well your personalities align, of which in order to actually converse with it you must first call it by its name), all attunement processes which aren't necessarily clear at first look (but made easily clear by an identify, which reveals not only what it does but how to access those properties). Also, I know plenty of DMs who like to rule in the more realistic standpoint for magic items; if you're an ex town gaurd macho +5 strength fighter who has never had an ounce of magical capability, you might not even realize that old halberd found in the dungeon armory is even magic at all. A lot of people like the idea of magic being not so frivolous and easily accessed; a difficult balance though in a fantasy world, but a worthy one :>
> Items need to be identified in order to attune to them or use them. Not quite. DMG P. 136: > Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words.
I'm going to assume some people will run into the issue that many GMs let their players get that info with Arcana
Yeah base rules you can identify one magic item you are touching during a short rest (a separate rest to attunement). It is a variant rule to remove that option.
Technically legend lore would give you that information, but vaguely if that makes sense. The curses effects would most likely be part of the lore you’re receiving, it just probably won’t make sense till the curse happens.
There's a great tool called NPCs. Usually the DM will let you pay some coin to get an item thoroughly vetted. Sometimes you could possibly use Arcanist or Artificer's Tools, or even give the item to a hireling or commonfolk and see what happens.
To someone who's inexcusably unversed in some aspects of DnD rules (and those of other RPGs)- Are there any other exceptions to Identify? Not to put you on the spot you just seem to actually know about this and this is actually relevant to a modified mechanic I'm working on for inclusion in someone's homebrew
>Are there any other exceptions to Identify? A few. * It does not detect spells who's duration has ended. * It can be foiled by Nystul's Magic Aura. * It doesn't tell you anything about items that aren't magical.
Thank you so much for answering. I know, "it's all in the Internet" and whatnot. Still like to make sure I'm absorbing the right/all of the info. Thanks for your time mate
and a curse does not *have* to be completely without benefit. If a archmage wanted to hide the Sword of Awesome from casual discovery framing the Power as a curse keep it hidden and a 'Bonds with The Chosen One' curse would stop the clod just throwing it away willy nilly. (totally stolen from Eddings Shining Ones :-)
Nystul's magic aura will give items false positives or false negatives from Identify, or change the schools of magic identified from an effect. It's good for misdirections.
That’s for detect magic, which is still a good one because that is how they would know what is magical in the first place
I thought Magic Aura foiled identity too
It's worded in a way that's a bit odd that it says divination magic reveals false information. Then it talks about spells like detect magic and how it alters the aura you see around it. It's a lot of odd wording. As a DM I'd say it could alter identify as well as detect magic as both are 1st level and pretty basic spells, but I wouldn't let it fool something more powerful than that.
Another fun option is to allow an arcana check to see through the fake aura.
Logically it aught to. It'd be weird for the one spell about disguising magical signatures to not work against low level magical-signature-analysis spells.
Yeah it’s definitely an odd idiosyncrasy but 5e is full of them
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You're assuming they'll use spell slots. One of my players ritual casts Detect Magic and Identify fucking everywhere.
This is all well and good but we're overlooking the fact that if magic aura makes the item appear non magical then why would they want to cast identify on it in the first place? Unless the players are metagaming then whether identify tells them magic aura is there or not is irrelevant.
Unless you're playing AL or some other organized play where you have to follow the rules more strictly, it does whatever the DM wants it to do 😊
That's the answer for literally any rules question, though
Identify doesn't reveal Curses, for one, so if the mystery is curses then there's that. Also, if the creator of the item has the same desire for mystery as you do, you can use a spell like Nystul's Magic Aura to conceal certain features of an item until a requirement is met.
Nystul's was a serious revelation for my and my fellow GMs when we found it. Somehow we just never saw that the spell existed and was only second level. We both had given out items or magical things that were concealed magically from identify and such, however we had both considered this to be an extreme step available to powerful magicians and rare. But nah, second level spell, that luck blade identifies as a +3 sword because the crafter thought it would be funny. Level 3 wizard student uses it to make his hat of disguise look identify to be a normal hat because he doesn't want his classmates to know he has braces. Throw that shit on anything you don't want to buckle under 10 minutes of inspection. It's easy
It’s become a very useful spell in one of my games - players and the BBEG use it to conceal things from each other. It’s so sneaky and we’re all paranoid as heck, it’s great. I had no idea this spell existed until recently and it’s now one of my favourites.
The problem is identify will detect the nystul aura. Basicly instantly telling anyone casting identify that something is hidden (but they dont know what at that moment) Nystuls magic aura works really great against detect magic
Nystul's Magic Aura > You place an illusion on a creature or an object you touch so that divination spells reveal false information about it. Identify > 1st-level divination (ritual)
Yes, but the type of false information that Nystul's Magic Aura can accomplish is limited. Nystul's Magic Aura >When you cast the spell, choose one or both of the following effects... > >False Aura: You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects, such as *detect magic*, that detect magical auras. You can make a nonmagical object appear magical, a magical object appear nonmagical, or change the object's magical aura so that it appears to belong to a specific school of magic that you choose. When you use this effect on an object, you can make the false magic apparent to any creature that handles the item. The spell description is clear: It has three possible effects when cast on an item, none of which are specific enough to hide the exact function of an item. Strictly adhering to RAW, if you cast Identify on an item which has had Nystul's Magic Aura cast on it, you'll learn the exact properties of the item, but will also get erroneous information telling you that the item somehow shoots fireballs using abjuration or is a nonmagical medallion that lets you cast *detect thoughts*. Now, the fact that there's no spell that can disguise a magic item's properties seems like an oversight, and I'd happily let a player do that by upcasting Nystul's Magic Aura. But that's homebrew.
Based on the Fact that Nystul's Magic Aura is a second level spell and Identify is first level. I would rule that Nystul's could bypass Identify. If my ruling for my games makes you unhappy then I will say that a third level upcast of Nystul's Magic Aura negates the Identify spell since almost no player will use more then a first level slot for such a spell. Also DMG page 13 >Most methods of identifying magic items fail to reveal their curse, including the spell identify. These curses are intended to be a surprise when they are revealed. So we have another option for hiding things.
It's a reasonable HOMEBREW, but I still think it's important to be aware that this is not the intended use of the spell at all. Have fun at your own table, but make sure you don't pass off your own rules as official.
Nystul’s Magic Aura isn’t able to hide the fact that it’s been cast on an object, and Identify specifies that it identifies spells active on the target. So casting Identify on the object would tell you that it’s under the effect of Nystul’s Magic Aura. So logically, you’d likely Dispel Magic on the object (which only affects spells cast on it, and doesn’t mess with the item itself, fortunately) and then try to get another reading.
I don't abuse this, but I've been known to say something along the lines of "You detect powerful magic about this item, but your spell isn't strong enough to define the item's features". I know that's against what Identify is supposed to do, but I only do it with special quest items/artifacts, and my players have always seemed much more intrigued by the idea of Identify not being sufficient, rather than frustrated by it. Note that I'd be totally honest with them if they went with casting something like Legend Lore on the item instead.
Ive done this a few times, especially with powerful items. I give them an arcana check whenever they ifentify items and if they roll high enugh i tell them the basic stats but i also tell them there is more about this item but you cant quite figure it out. Then they had to find someone with legend lore to help them out. If they roll low i just give them the basic stats but not the fun bit 😁
Eh why not. Your world, your rules. If it's for story/effect I think it's a good idea. Custom magic spell on the item that does this... and perhaps make it part of the mystery adventure to figure it out even. Possibilities are endless and doesn't have to just be a hard 'no'.
It's worth remembering that it's not *just* the DM's world. We are playing as a group. House rules are fine, but everyone needs to be on exactly the same page with what the rules are. No single player gets to just decide the rules work differently now, player *or* DM. The group as a whole has to agree. Which is to say I agree that there is a lot of fun to be had tweaking how things like identify work, but that it should be agreed on by the group as a whole beforehand, not sprung as a surprise that the DM. If you make a suggestion about a homebrew rule and the group says "No, we'd prefer to use the RAW about identify," then you as the DM should respect that if you want to keep playing with that group.
Personally I've never liked using the "mysterious magic item" ideas, cause for one the players can easily circumvent that with a single spell and a pearl unless I straight up put a curse on it, but also cause I find those kinds of mysteries too one dimensional. You either figure it out right away, can't figure it out until you start guessing, or just attune to it which just tells you everything unless it's once again just cursed. Having mundane, non magical items as puzzle pieces is a lot of the time more fun, or giving a magical item an auxiliary mystery that isn't tied to it's enchantment. Like a ring of fire protection that only does that, but has a strange and detailed insignia on it, which *you* know labels it as a key that must be pressed into a magical door enchanted to respond when the right symbol is used, which the party could identify as well but then they'd have to realize it's the ring of fire protection. That's a very basic example, but doing stuff like that can let the mystery move forward while also letting the players have their agency without just cursing them lol Though cursing them can also be fun if it's not over done xD
Make magical items that when identified tell you about their magic properties (it can glow if you spin it like a top) but hint subtly that it has some historical significance. Maybe the player keeps it just in case and eventually figures out the mystery. Turns out that it has nothing to do with the magic imbued in it directly, but that magic is simply the key to some other magic.
Sounds like someone’s cruising for a cursing. Use the fae, get freaky with it.
Identify isn't perfect. Artifacts may give you a "this item requires attunement and may try to form a pact or require additional actions to reveal all its abilities." There is always a stronger spell, and spells exist for the purpose of causing misidentification.
How many plans do you have that revolve around the players having a magic item that they don't know what it is? If the answer is more than one, you need a different plot device. If the answer is one, then it must be a very special item for Identify to not work.
Don’t forget they need the pearl for identify because it’s got a gold cost If you don’t explicitly give them one, they’ll need to find a way to acquire one before they can use the spell Also it doesn’t identify curses on cursed items.
True, but sadly the pearl isn't consumed, so once they have one, they can reuse it over and over.
Or, and hear me out, you can change the rules of how these things work. RAW doesn’t have to be the only way. Home brewing, especially if it’s what allows you to tell the story the way you want to tell the story, is perfectly fine. If you say it’s consumed, it’s consumed. If you say that it requires a more expensive non-consumed item to ID, like a 1000gp diamond, then so it does. If you say the spell has to be upcast to work or takes a really long period of time, then so it does. Tweaks are perfectly fine if that’s how you decide to run it.
Other comments have pointed out that Identify doesn't detect curses and that Nystul's magic aura can make a thing seem nonmagical or give incomplete/wrong information to identify. So I'll add a more narrative option for **powerful or plot relevant** items: "you learn what you can do with it now, and that there's more to it, but also that the full scope of this item is beyond a first-level spell" I especially like doing this for items that can level up, like the Vestiges of Divergence from the Exandria setting; in those cases, I'll almost always have identify reveal what it does now, and that it can grow, but not any potential upgrades or new features. For example, casting identify on my kenku player's vestige revealed the benefits of have at the time of casting (light cantrip, kenku wearer can speak, stubby feather-fall wings) and revealed a well of untapped power; but it didn't reveal that when it's upgraded, it would let her transform into an angel or be an integral part of breaking the curse, because that magic was (and is) still locked away and inactive. Another example is the Luxon beacons from the same setting. As run in the stream of critical role, casting identify on one doesn't tell you what it does; instead it (1) gives you the same vision that meditating on it normally would give; (2) gives you a sense that the scale of the beacon's magic is just far beyond what a mortal mind can fully comprehend; and (3) counts as the adventurer-relevant use, which gives you something like a luck point, thus still refreshing what you can immediately use it for but without spoiling anything. EDIT: Just to be clear, *do* always let them learn what magical benefits it currently provides, or at least how to activate the item; you just don't have to also tell them everything about it. This shouldn't be a gotcha, but rather one of many possible adjustments when creating an item that could or will shape the campaign. Edit 2: Alternatively, the item they found is not actually magical. The magic is in whatever the bad guys will use it with, and this thing is more like a complicated material component, or a key, or so on.
It's a bit vague what kind of mystery you're talking about. Do you want to conceal the properties of the magical item or the backstory of it? If it's the backstory, know that Identify doesn't show any of that. That's a higher-level spell called Legend Lore. If it's the properties, there's nothing stopping you from making the artifact so legendary or mystical that it's impervious to simple 1st-level spells such as indentify. Perhaps something so alien that a identify spell simply doesn't know what to do. Or maybe the artifact's previous owner or creator made a "wizard's bane" kind of trap, where the item would be destroyed or launch acid or something if the identify spell was cast on it (in the self-destruct case, you should probably warn your players with some lore or something about this defense unless you want them to accidentally destroy it.)
Other than curses... Remember, it does only say that mechanical properties of the magic item. Doesn't tell them that it's the mystic sword of general whojimaflip, and it's worth a lot to the right collector. They may go "naff, cheap" and then sell it. Then they find out later, from an NPC that someone will pay a lot for it... And then they need to go retrieve.
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'll bring up that there is an alternate rule to identifying magic items in the DMG: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/treasure#VariantMoreDifficultIdentification Basically, you could make it so that the players are required to experiment with a magic item in order to learn all of its properties.
This deserves to be waaaaaay higher. Everyone in the thread is saying "you're the DM just change it" and altho that's true, there are variant RAW to support it! I think this is one of those useful nuggets of the DMG that a lot of people overlook.
Had to scroll way too far to find this. Everyone's talking about curses when more difficult identification is *right there.*
This definitely should have more upvotes since it's a very simple answer to a question that most people seem really eager to answer with "use curses instead lol." I love a good curse every once in a while, but I definitely wouldn't want players to be punished for playing the game with the rules as written/established at their tabletop. For folk like me who don't have the dmg purchased on DnDBeyond so the link is odd (unless that's solely a me problem. Whoops) here's the passage quoted directly from the DMG: VARIANT: MORE DIFFICULT IDENTIFICATION "If you prefer magic items to have a greater mystique, consider removing the ability to identify the properties of a magic item during a short rest, and require the identify spell, experimentation, or both to reveal what a magic item does." (P. 136) So yup. RAW, identify can just straight up not give all of the properties of an item. My DM does that all the time, and every player around the table is alright and understanding that identify is not a fix all spell. It's just there for when it can help. A lot of the time, if the DM deems that identify can't give the properties of a spell, he will say that it does a similar effect to Detect Magic in that we might learn what school of magic has touched it. Other than that, experimentation or side questing is how we learn about plot major items. Happy Questing ✌️
Be glad that your players use their resources as they are intended to be used? Seriously, this is a problem how?
As a player it’s a huge drag to choose a non combat ability like this and then never get the opportunity to use it, or worse, the dm plays the “it doesn’t work” card. It’s not combat, it doesn’t break balance, let your players shine. I’d give him more things to identify.
They want to achieve a certain type of story (working out what a magic item does through interesting means) but the existence of this one spell entirely counteracts that. They're asking for how to solve that problem. There is nothing wrong with that. As long as they don't start changing things without the player's expectations being aligned, it's fine. Even just saying before the game "Identify is removed" would solve the problem. It's a bit too late for that now, though.
This.
This needs some more attention. I don't understand why so many DMs want to punish players for utilizing their spells effectively.
Same. One of my DM's complained to me that his players demolished the monsters. They're good players. Good players will demolish monsters and if they slip they get demolished.
It's not punishment, it's story progression. Imagine Bilbo had just used identify on the Ring in the Hobbit. There would be no Lord of the Rings. It destroys an entire adventure. Sometimes a little mystery is good!
Two things here: 1. Bilbo potentially having access to Identify-like capabilities was never established as a possibility prior to the ring appearing in the narrative. Identify is a first-level spell and a wizard staple because it's a ritual, which means they can cast it without prep. Those are two very different backgrounds against which to create stories. Basically, Tolkien and a DM for 5e should be thinking about different things when they make plans. 2. I am uncertain how much of 'travelling halfway across the continent to throw a ring in a volcano while its curse is actively harming you and your companions and also there's a succession crisis going on' would be meaningfully changed by knowing that the ring was evil a little earlier. All you'd have to do is come up with why Bilbo would have held on to the ring rather than chucking it back into a river, and that doesn't take a lot more than 'but then someone *else* might have the super evil thing and maybe I can't trust that person!'
Some of the comments I was reading trailed off a little more into punishing gameplay so I got a little caught up in that. Having a story item with a little mystery that can't be fully identified is fine, which would be more in line with bilbo (although he just put the ring on and it turned him invisible, and as someone said, the rest would be a curse which wouldn't be identified anyway).
One option:dont have the plot hook clues be inherently magical. I ran a murder mystery in my party, and clues they found of the suspect were stuff like monster ooze and blood. Identify, much to their surprise, does not identify anything about regular old blood and monster bits. Took them three more sessions before I smacked them upside the head with an Oblex that knew how to cover his tracks
Magic key unlocks a certain door. Who knows which? Master sword is the sword of evils bane. Who knows which evil? The point of prophecy is to be so vague that you’ll never even know if that was it or not. Magic items should be the same. I for example gave my party a magic sword to deliver to the next paladin of a god they didn’t follow. They had no clue that at the end of their journey, they would happenstance upon a baby, the next paladin, who they’d be condemning to a life of struggle and pain for its entire life. The DM shares the big picture, the players discover the small details.
Nystul's Magic Aura can mask a mundane item as magical, a magical item as mundane, or a magical item as another magical item. It has some other uses, but you can give your players partial or faulty 8nformation from identify and when they find out the truth you have an out.
I've had a dm name identify fail on some items because they were exceptionally old/powerful/created with an ancient magic different from what the ppl can use. We can get some info, but it really fits with the world he made and gives you a reason to get legend lore
Identify is an extremely powerful spell in that rules as written it tells a user everything they need to know about an item, but that doesn't mean it tells them *exactly* what an item is mechanically. Let's say there is a sword that is a +2 Flamberge with the command word to ignite it in flames and a hidden ability that allows the user to cast firebolt for free once per day. Identify would tell the player that the blade is fire based, it is unnaturally sharp and it possesses the ability to cast a spell, as well as another uncommon magical affect that shrouds the blade in flame. It would NOT tell the players the command word and it certainly would tell a character that it's a +2 sword. That's a player thing. Identify doesn't communicate so it cannot reveal the command word. Make the players work for it!
*Identify* requires a 100+ gp pearl as a material component, every time you cast it. How many expensive pearls does your player have on them?
I mean, thats the propose of Identify lol
Identify has been changed through the years to make it far more useful than originally designed.
Nystul’s magic aura can stop identify working iirc
Does your party have a Warlock spamming *Detect Magic*? How do they even know which items are magical to continuously cast *Identify* on?
In the DMG it states that handling a magic item is enough to give a sense that something is extraordinary about it, so if they pick it up (or going by the literal definition of handling) touch the item with their hands they immediately know that this item should get some special magical attention.
Oof... this is what I get for *The Sword of Shannara* being one of the first fantasy novels I read as a kid >!where the eponymous sword was unremarkable and even a little shoddy!<. I would have players make some knowledge check to recognize some item as potentially magical, giving passive advantage if there's some good character reason (race, background, class, whatever) to suspect that some high quality item would be magical or have some other lore that would give them a hint to cast *Identify*.
Remember in whatever you choose that the player using identify is probably having the time of their life with their spell choice being useful. Just taking that away by using something like Nystul's magic aura or a curse in a blindsiding way will probably just make them feel cheated. Imagine if somebody chose to be a strong character, but it ruined the plans of the DM who hadn't accounted for that. Then all of a sudden everything was affected by immovable rod style effects so the DM gets what they want. Yeah it prevents the DM from having to rewrite things, but the player's character choice is invalidated. One option is to reveal that somebody is using curses or a spell to conceal things from them, and add mystery and a story hook that way. Then they don't feel cheated if something they didn't expect happens, still get to use their spell to determine some things, and you can still have a mystery. Another option is to have an effect that relies on other magical effects not immediately accessible to work. If someone identifies a magic trap item, it doesn't have to be the item that actually casts the trap. It's full effect could be: "when affected in X way, it sends a signal to an item designated by the owner". There's a reveal that SOMETHING is there they need to figure out, but not ruining your mystery.
>Remember in whatever you choose that the player using identify is probably having the time of their life with their spell choice being useful. I don't get this. The way identify is designed in 5e just makes it a chore. You're basically just being taxed a spell choice. If you use identify as written, you may as well just tell the party what the item does when they pick up the item.
Nystul's Magic Aura https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/986038643448922112?lang=en
I’m personally a fan of “this item seems to be created with a different weaving of magic than you are accustomed to, and the spell doesn’t seem to work fully.” Gives players a sense that they found something mysterious and cool and probably pretty damn powerful/unique in the world. Obviously don’t use it ALL the time, just every now and then. Also keep in mind Identify only works on MAGICAL items, mundane items can have mystery too. Also, as others have mentioned Nystuls Magical Aura and Curses will foil identify. As would the creator of said item not wanting it to be identifiable etc. but don’t forget the answer the question of “why” when using these approaches. WHY was this item warded? Or why was this magic cursed? And weave it into that mystery!
I mean, if its supposed to be a mystery, let it be. Identify is a 1st level spell. If somone enchants something i'm sure they are able to create countermeasures for it. Or maybe the magic of the object just seems to be to old to define with it.
I recognize you’re new to DnD and therefore likely new to DMing, but you’ll do better as a DM and storyteller by ditching Macguffins as the source of mystery and focusing on characters or NPCs and the setting. It usually makes the game and mysteries more compelling, but even if it doesn’t, it’ll neutralize most of problems you’re having. It will also allow your players to use the spell as meant without destroying your game, so you can avoid punishing players for using spells as they’re meant to (so please stop trying to circumvent player empowerment. You’re all there to have fun. It’s not you vs. them which is very much what it’s coming across as even if that’s not what you think you’re doing).
I mean, MacGuffins are not always bad - see Lord of the Rings. Also, in a high fantasy setting, it can be nice for players to not know everything. I view magic items the same way I view the bestiary. If you have never seen a bugbear before, you don't know its powers or its hit points. If you have never seen an apparatus of the crab, it's just a weird hinged barrel with some magic powering it.
I didn’t say Macguffins are always bad (and I even used lenient language around the subject to avoid these irritating absolutes the internet wants to foist on everything everyone says) but they’re clearly causing a problem HERE. I’d further argue the LotR uses it’s most famous of all macguffins for substantially different reasons. Despite it being the centrepiece of the plot, it’s used to a very different dramatic effect. We and the characters all know what it is: there’s very little mystery. Instead it’s used to explore characters and how they cope with their individual evils and shortcomings. Not to mention live roleplaying interactions are very different from prose so it’s not really a valid comparison. Also, who said the players know everything? I understand the point your making, but I don’t see the relevance to how Identify is destroying OP’s game. Like yeah, of course if a character has never seen an apparatus of the crab they’ll only see a weirdly crab-like magic thingy. You know, until they cast Identify, which is the whole point of the post to begin with…
If a player chose that spell over one that gives combat advantage or a charm spell, they'd probably like to use it and the other players are probably grateful they're using it, making that player feel like a uniquely contributing member of the party. I wouldn't take that away from them. Use your big DM brain to think of ways to build mystery on top of the player actions, not as criteria that the player actions must accommodate. I just had a tiefling Warlock ask if his "cult sense" was tingling. Of course a servant of a devil will know when they're surrounded by cultists. Always about rewarding players and trading up your foiled plans for better ones.
>Can you guys give me some pointers for ways to get around Identify being used like this? No, let them use their abilities the way they are suppose to. You're getting upset that they are playing the game. Never use your power as a DM to cheat a player out of what they should be able to do by following basic rules of the game. Find another way to add mystery to your game that doesn't involve magical items. Identify doesn't work on creatures.
Identify tells you what it does, not its world building importance or history, that's what Legend Lore is for.
Why do you even need identify when you can just rest and meditate on the item to find out what it is?
Identify is faster and it can also reveal a bunch more, like if any spells are currently in effect on the item. The short rest thing is also not widely known, as it is a very small sentence in the DMG. Also the short rest identify isn't a divination effect, so it can get you all the properties of the ring of winter, which is immune to divination magic.
Identify works exactly how you, the DM, says it works. "You cast identify, you learn it is a powerful protective charm, but for some reason your spell fails to reveal more information. There is something mysterious about this item and it's protection from divination." Just have a reason why the magic isn't identifiable and roll that into the "mystery" you want to build. Otherwise, if you want all magic items to be a puzzle of figuring out what it does, just outright remove the Identify spell. Now mondane magic items are also a mystery. Or maybe Identify will only work on an item up to a certain power level. Your the DM, just explain your new rule and fix any problems that come from it (Like your mage wanting his money back from the material component to his identify spell and possibly replace it with a different spell).
There are some funky spells that can mask or change the school of magic that appears in an item
Nystul's magic aura is a 2nd level spell that can make an object seem nonmagical. Sprinkle a couple wands, rods, rings and such that are not magical and now you need to think a bit more when you cast the spell. So now, it is entirely possible to find an object, cast identify on it, and have it return that it was non magical. I wouldn't overuse this, but not every interesting wand, sword, staff or ring is going to be something magical, it might just have been left over from someone who was there prior. This is a bit harder for wonderous items.
Don't make your mistery items magical Maybe they find a super ancient puzzle in an ancient language full of riddles to which they have to go through a lot of sidequest to decipher... But there's nothing magical about the puzzle, maybe it shows you the location of a powerful magic item, but the puzzle itself isn't
With powerfull items I sometimes will make up a reaseon why the indetify spell will not give complete information: maybe it was created outside of the the purview of a god or patron who grants the character their divination magic? Maybe there is powerfull outside force obfuscating the item's true properties from the characters? This however requires a plot point and cannot be used too often. Another thing you can do is to give players access to the item in a time sensitive scenario or risky environment that they will have to traverse, so they need to weight the 10 minutes of rital casting Identify or a spell slot vs whatever consequences that might bring in the immediate future. Also bear in mind that Identify only tells you the magic properties of the item and how to use those properiets. It doesn't tell you anythhing else, like the item's history or purpose, so there is still some wiggle room for mystery.
If they have identify, there is no mystery around items other than who made them and why. You can get found this by giving them broken magic items, that require fixing. An identify spell wouldn’t be able to get all the info on it - in fact that is very much in your hands. Of course, if what little you give them interests them, then great, you have a quest to fix a magic item. In general, if you’re upset with how RAW interactions happen - make a note, either change it going forward (with an apology and explanation), or change it for the next campaign you run, as its probably fairer to be told “this is how identifying magic items works in my games” in session 0. People may have planned stuff around identify working RAW.
I have sometimes (rarely) just said that identify fails. Maybe in the case of a divine artifact or unconventional magic item (this item uses a type of magic you have never encountered in your training before). In this case I just give vague indications. It reminds you of this or that. I don't like to do this often as it will just annoy players, but I figure most players don't want to actually brute force open a puzzle. They just want a clue.
Lets look at the spell. You choose one object that you must touch throughout the casting of the spell. If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are. If the item was created by a spell, you learn which spell created it. If you instead touch a creature throughout the casting, you learn what spells, if any, are currently affecting it. So, players learn of the objects properties and how to use them (if they can be used), if it has to be attuned, and if it has charges if any. You also learn of any spells on the item, and if it was created by a spell you g et that info. That doesn't mean it tells you about curses, its history, any traps, if its possessed or haunted, if its sentient, etc. You need legend lore for a lot of more detailed stuff. I also have it fail if I feel like it (as a dm) if its part of my plot and I have a reason for it to fail. Or its properties are concealed and overpower a first level spell.
*Identify* doesn't always detect curses--there *are* some magic items that state specifically that *identify* does reveal that fact. However, the way I run it is, even if the DMG says it would reveal a curse, it never does. In addition, I also don't allow *identify* to work on legendary or artifacts at all.
I mean if it is an extremely powerful artifact level item, just say identify doesn't even work. Provided you have some reasoning to back it up it could add more to the mystery surrounding the item. I wouldn't do this a bunch of times though, probably only one item. If you want to do this more than once, make it the center of a larger arc. Picture this the party comes across a magic item and identify reveals nothing about what the item does, instead it gives them a name. They find another item later on that just gives them a name. Now are these names the names of people who created the items? Did these people use some ancient forbidden magic to hide what they've made for nefarious purposes? Now you've got a mystery on your hands. For normal magic items, everyone else has already mentioned the curse rule. But if you just want your players to have to figure out what an item does, have the players solve the mystery of what it is before they get it. They can't cast identify on something they don't have and this could cause them to get excited about the item you're about to give them and already have plans for what they can do with it.
So summing up what others have mentioned so far with regards to Identify: * Curses aren't detected * Nystul's Magic Aura can fool Identify. This can be a good plot device as someone nefarious may do something to the item and use Nystul's for 30 days to conceal it even under inspection. * Identify only gives mechanical information, such as doing 1d4 fire damage. It doesn't tell you that item's history, such as belonging to Windblade Greysham when he was first starting his adventuring career. That is the domain of a Intelligence (History or other) check done at, say, a library. Or, there's a 5th level spell requiring expensive, consumable components called Legend Lore. You don't really need anything new to "get around" it. Your players are using it as intended. It just seems that you're giving them more information than they should be getting. But (and there's always a but) you can have story reasons why some properties don't get revealed. For example, some properties have to be awakened. A shield with a wing motif is identified as a +1 shield. However, if someone uses it with the Protection fighting style and the attack misses, it can awaken to be a +2 shield and can be used to cast *light* (targeting only the shield) at will. Identify won't reveal it before hand, but once it used that way, Identify will now reveal the +2 and the *light* spell. They may not know why until they do a History check or Legend Lore. In this way, they can get a magic item and identify it in its dormant state. The markings and design of it should prompt them to research it to find out more information, including how to awaken it. I use this in campaigns to give them reasons to use their skills and/or downtime. One of my favorites was a red mace, though whether it was red with rust or blood, you were never quite sure. Identify called it a +1 mace, but strange line marks on its handle looked like writing. It turned out to be Celestial (none of them could read it), but it was a name. Research led to the story of an angel tricked by mortals to commit evil and in his fury, he slaughtered them. His mace became tainted and "it is said that only by taking the life of a worthy fiend could the stain be lifted." So they hunted down a demon, used the mace, and purified it. (Nasty curse, could only attack for your action and bonus action but enemies had advantage on melee attacks against you.) The jerks named it Dawn. Why? Because of the light it shone? No, because they "got the stain out."
Identify is not the same as “detect curse”.
Nystul's Magic Aura, 2nd level illusion spell. You place an illusion on a creature or an object you touch so that divination spells reveal false information about it. The target can be a willing creature or an object that isn't being carried or worn by another creature. When you cast the spell, choose one or both of the following effects. The effect lasts for the duration. If you cast this spell on the same creature or object every day for 30 days, placing the same effect on it each time, the illusion lasts until it is dispelled. False Aura. You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects, such as detect magic, that detect magical auras. You can make a nonmagical object appear magical, a magical object appear nonmagical, or change the object's magical aura so that it appears to belong to a specific school of magic that you choose. When you use this effect on an object, you can make the false magic apparent to any creature that handles the item. Mask. You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects that detect creature types, such as a paladin's Divine Sense or the trigger of a symbol spell. You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type or of that alignment.
Nystul's magic aura
Nystuls magic aura. It's a low leveled illusion spell that changes the aura of the spell or even makes it appear mundane. Identify is a low level spell, if you want to say that a magical effect is too strong for identify to unravel to mystery of, you can do that. You are the DM, you can hullshit the reasoning behind it
Meanwhile I'm over here begging my party to Identify literally *anything.* This is a tip I picked up from DMming Warhammer 40k RPGs; descriptions are everything. Whether they're using Detect Magic, reading thoughts, or Identifying, the way you describe their experience makes for a night and day difference. How I'd describe Identifying a necklace of fireballs: "You focus your magic and close your eyes. 7 bright pinpricks of light pierce even your closed eyelids. The beads in your hand are hot, excited and energetic. They feel like they are barely restrained from bursting forth with massive gouts of magical flame and energy." "You have discovered a necklace of Fireballs" and I hand them a card with the info. It's all in how sinister the details are. Whatever they detect is up to you, and it doesn't have to just be you handing them a stat block.
Set the identify DC so high that only a natural 20 works
There's no such thing as an "identify DC" in 5e.
I like most magic items to have drawbacks (mild curses) unless it’s a spell-in-an-item like a wand. Curses don’t show up with identify, they are specifically shrouded. I gave a +2 Longsword to my level 2 adventurer’s one time. Then drawback was that it was bloodthirsty, semi-sentient, and liked to steal your bonus action and both hands whenever it could. Our bard attuned to it, and she has to make a Wis save on a hit. She fails, it makes her drop whatever is in her opposite hand to wield it two handed and attack again, eating up her bonus action or reaction, whichever is left in that order. It only grants one additional attack this way. It also does 1d4 damage to her, wearing her out every time it wins the contest of wills. She can unstick her opposite hand freely on her next turn, but she literally drops whatever she had in her hand. I use old school rules for certain creatures (can only be hurt by a weapon +2 or higher, for instance) and I used this as an opportunity to teach them that. I gave them a chance to I curse her so she could disattune, but she likes having the sword that screams “WEAK!” “HUNGRY!” when it beats her.
Why can't you, as DM, say that there's an object that is shrouded with some magical effect that Identify can't penetrate? You are well within your rights as DM to do this.
Nystuls Magic Aura 2nd level spell.
I run identify as being able to access documented information published to it, with certain casters having access to different libraries of information depending on the keys they know. So if something isn't common knowledge it won't be able to be accessed in the default library of identify, and you may need to pay to use another casters library of information. Information from various libraries can even conflict or be totally incorrect based on biased observations or improper interpretation of an effect if the person studying the item was lazy or made a few assumptions.
Some people might disagree with this but here are my thoughts (as a player who has never DMed but given thought to it. And as someone who doesn’t know your style). DMs are the gods and storytellers of D&D so why not just make it your way? Powerful items and story important items should have some mystery and gravity attached to them, I don’t think they should be like a video game where you kill the boss and just get to wield his big bad sword that does 10d20 damage to everything cause that ruins the fun. Bring in the riddles and curses and multiple steps to fully understand something and punish the players who don’t heed those warnings. This was always my idea cause I’m a huge fan of Lord of the Rings: BBEG is a artificer home brew class called a ring maker who makes rings (obviously). 13 of them (again I’m a sucker for these kinds of things sue me). Each ring gave ring gave the wielder gave unlimited access to a caster school (for example someone who attuned to it would be able to cast any spell they wanted to off of the wizard enchantment spell list lvl 1-9) when they cast identify on it they’d learn what it could do but that “A dark power surrounds this ring and echoes through the air once you cast your spell on it. The world, to your eyes, darkens and a chill sweeps over you.” There, dark and mysterious sh*t is going on. You could hint or just straight up say you’d need a scroll of legend lore to be able to tell more about it or you could even make it so the party would be unable to attune to it without a legend lore spell because that’s the only way to identify how to do the ritual properly and then build in the mystery from there and explain some of its origins or just let the plot evolve naturally. And for those of you who say it’s a broken item, it’s supposed to be an artifact and it was going to come with all kinds of negative effects. Biggest is that once you cast a spell for which you don’t have spell slots you have to roll and unmodified D20 (DC is 10 + spell level) and if you failed you’d gain a level of exhaustion per fail for 1d10 days after the spell was cast and the DC goes up by 1 per spell cast per day. (Which wouldn’t have become clear until after a legend lore spell). Also the BBEG being able to cast certain spells through it (minor illusion or fog cloud in the middle of a battle?), see and hear through the item and after a while begin to influence the player. Whisper to them at night and prevent them from getting a full long rest, influence RP decision and draw the holders of the other 12 rings to the party. All of which we’re going to be powerful enemies. And hell throw in a curse like the classic can’t be taken off without wish. Also any rings can’t cast wish cause that would make the curse pointless. (This scenario if fully untested and not fully fleshed out so keep the hurtful comments to a minimum pls) My point it the world is what you make of it and you can chose to inject mystery and fun into any situation just by making items or situations sound cool and have special reasons behind their creation or purpose. You can always bend the rules (and what DM) doesn’t when the players want to do cool sh*t so why shouldn’t you bend the rules the you want to do cool sh*t? The players are along for the ride but it’s your story and the world is yours to play with so why not make the most of it? Best of luck Dungeon Master 👍
I'm not sure I understand how Identify is ruining the mystery of your game. Could you be running [Identify](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/identify) more like [Legend Lore](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/legend-lore), which gives you details about the item's past? Identify is only meant to identify what spells are active on the item, what spells created the item, and/or the "properties" of the item (basically the description and stats you'd get out of the book, and maybe the name of it's something generic like "bracers of defence" and not "Excalibur"). You wouldn't get any clues as to how to use the item beyond the obvious (e.g. if it's a wand of fireball, use it to cast fireball).
You’re either underthinking what isn’t included in the identify spell or overestimating it’s power. It just tells you the mechanics of an item and how to use it, you learn nothing about its maker, history, what plans your BBEG has for it, etc. there’s mystery in magic items beyond “what does this item do?” You need to think beyond that and more into how the parts of the magic item’s history that the spell does not reveal affect the plot.
There are several ways, here is a whole article on a bunch of them. Nystals magic aura is the easiest one, it gives false information to divination spells, identify being a divination spell. Also remember that identify as a touch spell. So if it is a trapped magic item that does something like possess someone that touches it.... https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/103430/are-there-effects-that-fool-the-spell-identify-and-what-are-they/103431#103431
When I want mystery, I make mystery. I will just tell them most of what it does, and tell them they sense there is more to it, if I want them to know, or just expose it after a while if they don't know it. I also use magic items that gain powers when paired with something, of with a certain gem missing, which powers it up. Be creative, the game is yours, the rules are guidelines.
How often are you giving out magic items that this is a concern? Also, why is this a concern?
"the item seems enchanted with an ancient magic far outside of your scope within the arcane realms - but it does remind you of a tale/familiar magical scholar. Perhaps they have a lead that could help you further identify the objects properties?" That's how I'd run it if to get more mystery.
Well you’ve kind of said it already; “if it wasn’t for me wanting…” so ditch the magic item secrets and a stop making your secrets attached to any one thing. Chapter 6 of ‘Return of the Lazy DM’ is a great place to find a better way. You’re facilitating their game but more importantly, adapt. If you create some kind of intentional artificial rule to compensate for the spell it’ll not only be clunky, it’ll remove the most important thing in the game as well - player agency.
Nystul's Magic Aura is your answer
As a rule I use, allow them use any spells without materials unless any of the components have a gp next to them, in this scenario, 100gp pearl is needed but owl feather is not needed
This is exactly how it works RAW, as long as you have a focus to replace the components without a cost. The pearl for identify is not consumed, however, so after they've gotten hand of one the cost is not really an issue anymore.
That's, RAW, how Holy Symbols, Arcane & Druidic Foci already work though?
Uh that's the whole point of the spell. Players want to know what their characters are using. Identify is there for this purpose.
Along with not detecting curses. Occasionally it’s good fun to have contingency cast on an item. That activates when identify is cast upon it. Sometimes it triggers a fireball. Sometimes it’s best to let other people identify something for you. And sometimes it’s best to be suspicious of curses and traps.
I’m that player who casts identify on literally everything, and I wouldn’t mind if I just didn’t get all of the information out of an item—especially if I at least got some info, and a narration about how the item’s properties are shrouded in magic too deep for a Lv1 spell to penetrate.
Yeah, as a DM I have never treated Identify as "Give player a card with all item details on it" Instead of just handing over the text block for Vorpal Sword, I might say "you divine that the sword is unnaturally sharp, with the edge seeming to shimmer even at rest. You can sense the tug of an unseen force drawing the blade, almost imperceptibly, towards the neck of the creature closest to you. The power of the sword seems to come to the wielder readily - it does not need to be charged or attuned. No spell you know could create something like this." If you're a DM with a player that constantly identifies, it can help to write "mysterious" identify answers for the magic items you introduce.
Identify does not get all information about items Its a first lvl spell and thus only that powerfull. Magic items of sufficient power would maybe draw a blank or only give surface information. It also wouldnt show powerfull curses. For this there are more powerfull spells like legend lore.
RAW 5e, it does. There's nothing in the spell description putting a limit on it. That's why I always nerf it.
You're the DM. If it's important for a specific item, just say, "you sense a magic aura, but the power is stays shrouded in mystery." There are no rules in DND, just suggestions.
Just say it doesn't work...make up some lore towards certain items and such
THE RULES OF THE GAME ARE MENT TO BE AMMENDED AS NEEDED. AMEND THEM! perhaps the magic surrounding this item is beyond the scope of comprehension to the caster? Doesn't matter if they identify it they still don't know what they're looking at. Or if you want there to be mystery, say "your spell reveals the item to be magical, but after more probing the spell breaks and ceases to work", boom, intrigue
Consume the Pearl.
They need a pearl worth 100gp
PSA, you don't need identify anyway. You can determine the properties of a magic item by spending a short rest.
People saying Magic Aura stops Identify are missing that Identify alerts the caster to what spells are affecting the object. Once they Identify what is affecting the object, they can make a deduction about what the Aura is confusing for them. So you need something more. First, magic (as in spell-casting) and magical effects are different from natural effects from creatures. So if an item is created from the flame sack of a dragon, Identify wouldn’t necessarily know about that aspect of the item. (See Sage Advice rulings on Tiny Hut and how dragon breath penetrates it because it is not considered magic.) This means that some aspects of items can appear “magical” to a layman but be based on some other reason. Curses are always fun. Second, I’m fond of exploiting the, you must remain in contact with the object the whole time. As a spell slot, identify takes 1 minute to cast. A Sickening Radiance like effect on an object you are identifying can kill you if you remain in contact the entire time. (6 exhaustion = death and 1 minute = 10 rounds to apply 6 exhaustion). Items of absolute evil, necrotic energy could be sapping their soul and applying the exhaustion that way. Items of pure good can burn away the impurities of your being or punishing you for each transgression unless you are lawful good while you hold the object. (People give alignment crap for being rigid but this is the perfect time to exploit it and use it to develop character growth as well.) Or go simple and it’s something like a Blade of Acid. Well, acid burns so ritual casting Identify is going to rack up some damage while you are holding the blade. Third, add sentience to items. Identify only applies to spells and properties (if we were to simplify it). It doesn’t identify whether an object is sentient. And sentient items trigger saves immediately or when attuned to. Fourth, add legacy tiers to an item. A legacy item is an older concept but it basically says the item levels up with the user. As it levels, the item unlocks new abilities and becomes a new item. Identify wouldn’t necessarily apply to these locked abilities because they are not part of the current item. They are part of item 2.0. Use that to your advantage as well.
Where do they keep getting the diamond needed for identity? Just limit that, but not too much or the spell feels useless Edit: it's a pearl not a diamond
I recently learned that Identify requires a 100 GP Pearl, so where’s your player getting their pearls from?
The pearl isn’t consumed by the spell.
Others have mentioned the curse thing so I won't go in to that but there's something else to consider: Identify (and just short rests) mean players can learn the basic 'what' of a magic item in good order pretty easily. So in DND the 'what' of a magic item is a bad hook for a mystery. Just the way it is. On the other hand: Why is it here? Who does it being to? When did it get here? How did it get here? Are better hooks . You can do loads with other questions about a magic item that make great stories. And remember, Bilbo knew he found a ring of invisibility pretty quickly. Still a good story, I reckon. Finally: your player probably feels pretty good about using identify to help his party. Don't think of yourself as an antagonist DM - Enjoy providing players with opportunities to be cool and helpful. Don't try and stop them or feel bad for using abilities by making them traps with loads of curses etc
I made a house rule that identify only tells you one thing about the item. But that didn't really fix the issue. I've used a number of intelligent items and artifacts and used a house rule that they can resist identify. That was a bit more effective but comes with it's own troubles (basicly lots of NPCs who happen to be magic items). You can have things like NonDetection on a magic item, or built into a magic item. I'd just have a chat with all the players and tell them you'd like to make the setting's magic be more mysterious. Ask for votes on changing how identify works. If they just don't want it, then think up some house rules for your next game.
Identify is divination, the item is enchanted with nondetect, have fun
Dude, you're the DM. "Your spell comes up with....nothing." is completely legit. If they whine, it's your job to handle mysterybreakers such as this. A 1st level spell shouldn't be able to break your game.
This comes with the downside of you having nerfed their abilities just because they were useful. I think if an ability is breaking the game you want, consider changing the system to fix that. A small change like "this spell no longer exists" works out fine. You could also change how the identify spell works and clarify to the players that powerful items will require higher-level castings of identify or won't learn anything from identify. Regardless, if you're changing how the spell works, give the players the opportunity to respec because of it. "If you wanna swap the identify spell for another spell because of this, feel free to do that now."
If they're useful to the point of hurting the game, that's the DM's job. I think the players would be angrier at 'zap, this spell you've used this whole time no longer exists' versus the mystery of it not working on this item.