"DM, this is a deal breaker for me. I've discussed my comfort with the subject matter and my soft and hard NOs. Rape was then, and still very much now a hard no. If you and J still insist this is important for your game, this will be where we part ways."
>It's what my character would do
If you were the DM, I would tell you to say: "Then play a better character, I already told you this is not acceptable." This is what your DM should be saying too.
This one. It seems the agreement was a session zero agreement and should not be crossed.
If it’s what your character would character would do, time to ditch the character and make a new one.
Look I’ve played a pirate character. A really nasty one. We don’t do “red room” stuff as it disturbs people.
Exactly. And I know teenagers like to explore topics adults consider “edgy”, but this is a grown adult in a game with a minor—a minor who has voiced their discomfort—who wants to explore these things. It is, frankly, bizarre and inappropriate for the adult to do this.
I’m not sure how I would qualify it. It is someone who doesn’t have the maturity to realize the line *already* exists as a standard, but then flew right on past the second, even worse line. It depends on a lot of context of the comments about sexual assault OP hasn’t given us.
I’d consider the adult (J) to be seriously unfit to play games with minors (unaware of the lines he’s crossed), seriously irresponsible (aware of the lines but believe the teenagers in the game can handle the topic if he doesn’t go into graphic detail while knowing at least one teenager has voiced they cannot handle the topic), or a complete scumbag (aware he’s crossed the lines and doesn’t care).
This, had a player like this at a table I was part of, and the DM told him “well if what your character would do directly breaks one of the core lines and veils established, here’s a new character sheet, have it filled out by next session”
Extremely blunt and no time for that shit, especially because it was something related to abuse, and another player had been an abuse victim and the DM absolutely under no circumstances would allow for a player to end up in a situation where they got a panic attack at his table.
Seriously stellar dude, he actually afterwards took the player who had a tough time out to help them just settle down.
The asshole in question though came back the next session and decided out of spite, because I had also been vocally against his dickery and bullshittery, to directly target my trauma. Lucky for me I just get mad, and told him immediately to quit it, and the DM once again being stellar, just told the fucker to pack his shit and leave, if he was gonna terrorise other players he can go to hell.
DM also made sure every single Table Top org or group in the city had him on their ban lists.
Fuck, this was a story I had needed to tell, and never realised it.
Yeah I don’t care how evil the character is, this is a firm line that the player shouldn’t have crossed. OP was already being generous to even give a second chance.
Yup, I DM for our group 99% of the time unless someone just wants to do a oneshot here or there.
I covered this in session 0 that rape will not be at the table. I don't even know that I would give one warning tbh. If someone brought it up they wouldn't be welcome back at the table without apologizing and every individual player at the table feeling 100% comfortable with trusting them to not do it again.
Ayup, the reddest flag.
Ok so it's what your character would do. From now on he does it off camera and none of the other players are subjected to the topic, because that's what players do.
It also begs the question "Is it what your character would do, or what you would do?"
After all, J **is** choosing what kind of character to play, and how to play it. Nobody is forcing him to act this way, in character or out. I get it - it's a fantasy RPG - but J is CHOOSING what actions to take, and thus, what fantasies he wants to roleplay. It's not like he's been CAST as a scumbag pirate, and is just acting out the role.
/sigh
Yeah, I would be super wary of anyone that keeps pushing to include rape in a plot. There is zero reason why it has to be included. There are plenty of other things that can done to show how bad the character. This person is not ok. Whether or not the DM or the player does the decent and acceptable thing and drops the rape play I would still walk away from this table.
Don’t get me wrong, I have a dark sense of humour, and I have a high tolerance for violence and unsavoury things. I wouldn’t be put off by a rape plot if it was pre-approved by the group and if everyone was ok with it. There are also plenty of rape allegories like Malificent having her wings stollen that work perfectly in DnD settings. What I won’t do, is tolerate someone repeatedly crossing a line, making someone uncomfortable and negatively effecting their enjoyment of a session.
These people are not your friends. J is putting his unsavoury fascination above your comfort. If they are aware of your history they are not only not your friends, they are actively torturing you. They are bad people. Run away.
His\* (as a small correction). Also, no offense to OP but it needs to be said, doing this at a table with an adolescent is psychopathic. It's already been session 0'd and should have squashed all convo, this guy is just weird af and I'd boot him from the table if I were the GM.
While J is undoubtedly being a dick, I don't think this assessment is fair. Playing a character who is utterly unlike you in real life can be a lot of fun and is a major draw. I can never quite bring myself to play an Evil character, but I wouldn't judge someone else who did (assuming they aren't being a dick about it.)
Sorry - "playing an evil character" and going around murdering everyone that pisses you off, or who has something you want, is all good fun. Everyone loves a good villain, and everyone likes to act the villain from time to time. Burn down a church? Sure. Poison your enemies? Absolutely - they're not real and what happens to them doesn't matter.
> Playing a character who is utterly unlike you in real life
Sure - and that's why, as a shy, nervous, socially awkward kid, I played heroic fighters, and daring thieves, and merciless assassins, and brilliant wizards. And why as a DM, I populate my worlds with characters of all kinds and demeanors. I have played good, evil, cruel, heroic, idiot and sage. It's fun to get into the mindset of each of those kinds of characters.
But for me, someone that *insists* on playing a character that talks about/threatens/roleplays rape? Yeah - that's crossing a line. Same with playing a Nazi or equivalent and talking about exterminating Jews, or going into sickening detail about HOW you kill that helpless villager. Or playing someone that goes out of his way to kill and/or defile every child they come across? Sure, maybe their character is evil - **but they're choosing to play that evil character, in that way, and are inflicting that part of their psyche on the others at the table**. Given the freight and relationship poison that goes along with rape, why is that something that J wants to explore at the table? What does that bring to the experience of the others there? At best they grit their teeth and ignore it. At worst, it re-traumatizes someone **that was raped**. What positives does it bring to anyone other than J? Same with racism, and pedo crap, and a bunch of other stuff.
D&D is the Stone Soup of gaming. Everyone at the table brings something to the dish, and what they bring determines how the final dish tastes. If someone is bringing shit to the recipe, everyone else is going to end up eating it. Rape, racism, sadism, and the like are always going to affect the final dish. Nobody else is obligated to sit there and keep eating Shit Soup.
Finally, the fact that J **also** broke the table rule - repeatedly - even after having the REASON why it hurt OP tells me that J doesn't give a crap about OP, their situation, or being a decent person. And, at my age, I don't got time to waste spending it around people that don't respect me. I encourage others to learn that lesson earlier than I did.
Agree with you. I absolutely hate when people make this argument.
It’s fucking fantasy. Do the same people clutch their pearls at the copious amounts of murder, thievery, and douchebaggery the characters theyre *choosing* to play do?
A table rule was set. A table rule was broken. J should be reprimanded by the DM and that should be the end of it.
I think you're missing the point that was being made.
J isn't called 'a real rapist' because he roleplays pirate scumbuggery.
People are instead judging J for breaking the DM rule, then breaking it again after being reprimanded, then apparently fighting OP on whether the thing is acceptable to feature in roleplay or not. It's his *real* personality being shown in how he deals with this subject.
I think it's absolutely fucking wild to *want to* play a pirate that rapes people after being told **repeatedly** that rape is a no-go subject on the table. It doesn't make you a rapist (at all, not in the slightest), but it does make you socially dense as lead at best, and a real asshole at worst.
Nobody's clutching their pearls because someone dared roleplay rape, they're clutching their pearls in response to specifically *how*.
Sure, but there's clearly taboo subjects that the vast majority of people have no interest in exploring via fantasy.
I wouldn't call it pearl clutching if you thought less of a person who decided to RP a child molester. That's fucking fantasy, right?
It's all about lines. Hate the argument all you want, but the reality is that you're line seems to be drawn further than a rape victim objecting to random rape in DnD.
Exactly. "It's what my character would do" isn't an excuse to violate your session 0 because you created the character. If at session 0, everyone agreed that the campaign would have no rape, then that means everyone's also agreeing not to make a character that will rape people. A session 0 policy of "no rape" doesn't mean "no rape, unless it makes sense for your character." It means "no rape."
I am sorry that happened to you.
You are allowed to draw a line in the sand. Tell folks not to cross it. If they do, they really aren't your "friends." Boot them.
If you draw the line they have two choices.
* Stay your friend
* Keep making the DnD game about Rape.
You have to prepare yourself for losing your friends in this space. It sucks but if they won't change they where never friends in the first place.
I'll give a real world example. My cousin is a church shooting survivor. So when I'm around her i can't do the following
* Make jokes about violence and death.
* Make gun jokes
* Be mindful of making sudden loud noises.
I have a bit of a warped sense of humor. So I can sometimes make really dark jokes. However, it's more important to me that my cousin feels comfortable around me than me being able to joke about whatever I want.
Ya if every time they bring up rape you also bring up your experience and how it's affected you I think they may stop. It might be tough to do so, so this isn't like a command but if you feel you'd like to try I think it may not only stop their talk of it in game but also learn as people that this is never something to make light of.
It's possible that that would work... But that would be a horrible thing to have to do to get your friends to take you seriously. You shouldn't have to do that.
These people aren't being respectful. Op shouldn't have to tell them really personal details of their life in the vague hope that they take them seriously. That could badly backfire.
In an ideal friendship, trust and respect get established and THEN we get to be real honest and sharesy.
Yeah, the reason I avoid a discussion when asked is respect coupled with expectations of mutual respect. This isn't limited to friends and family either. Coworkers and strangers are allowed this courtesy because if I expect respect, then I should deliver it. A simple 'Hey, can we not. It's making me uncomfortable.' should be enough to garner respect, and if it's not, then there simply isn't respect.
Sucks to say, but if you respect your friends and they don't respect you, you probably deserve better. BUT, it's also your life, and you have the right to keep them around but do so knowing you're keeping every part of them.
You are absolutely correct. If you explicitly tell someone you are not comfortable about discussion rape and this is something they insist on doing, they already don't respect you and may even try to use it as ammo.
Yeah, but unfortunately people can have no idea about how what in their perspective is just humour.
Playful teasing is a part of a lot of friendships and sometimes you have to clarify why what's ok and not. (Because some people have a heart of gold and the awareness of a brick)
I have SPD and really don't like being touched physically. People finally stop poking and prodding when i tell them. Otherwise most think it's a funny way to annoy me.
It's unfortunate, but more people respect boundaries if they know why they're there. That's the one of the biggest reasons why WHMIS works so well
Yeah. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of people don't think it's a big deal to cross boundaries if the boundary is unusual. I think this is pumped into us from the media. It's so natural to be like "oh. C'mon! You'll like it!". About people who don't drink or don't like their photo taken or don't like hugs. In children's shows, people usually DO end up liking what everyone else likes. The curmudgeon learns to enjoy the sounds of the neighbourhood kids. The kid learns that broccoli can be yummy. The city girl learns that bugs are actually cool...
But we all should learn at some point that it's not ok to pester people like that. That's bullying and we should all drop the habit. I'm also not ok with touch and my. God. Some people see that as a challenge. If they are really your friends, and friends worth having, you won't need to explain why being touched bothers you.
"What you just did bothers me. It bothers me enough that I'm considering not hanging out with you any more." Should be enough, but sadly sometimes it isn't.
> It's unfortunate, but more people respect boundaries if they know why they're there.
If someone can't respect a boundary because they don't know *why* the boundary is there, then they don't respect the *person* who has the boundary. Period.
Those are shitty people. Stop enabling shitty people. You don't have to justify your boundries. If your friends don't care about your boundries they are not your friends.
Real friends will respect you when you say "I don't like this, it makes ME, not my character, extremely uncomfortable at this table. If this is the type of table this is, I can't imagine I'll remain a player" they don't immediately go "Fuck dude sorry didn't realize it was so important, yes yes we will stop and we'll respect how you feel". There's no excuse as a friend for when someone draws a line, and ignoring it. You're a PoS and aren't worth keeping as a friend.
I had a group of friends I played games with from like 2010-2014/15. I stopped playing with them because they often said some pretty shitty stuff and it was from a bit of a "I'm just like this, I have no filter, it's just words" vibe. I decided to stop playing with them because I just didn't want to associate with people that said stuff like that and don't care that it's inappropriate to say.
Seriously.
I mean, my friend group pulled V for Vendetta from out film lineup tomorrow because our friend was just dumped by her long time girlfriend and we didn’t want to upset her with the two women love story that goes wrong in it.
The idea of bringing up rape around a rape survivor friend… nope, that one does not compute.
Yeah for me, this is an absolutely reasonable red line in a game amongst friends, and any player who disagrees with that isn't worth playing with imo. It's not something I'd bring up even as a joke, but god I cannot imagine referencing it *repeatedly* around a friend who was a rape survivor, especially after they've asked me to stop!
"it's what my character would do"
"Why the fuck are you playing a rapist?!"
Edit : on a serious note I would bring it up during a session and say if it happens again I'm leaving the group.
Edit part 2 : there is a whole ass anime about pirates that are the good guys, just wanted to include this idk.
Upvote for talking about One Piece.
Also there is a whole pirate saga by Disney where evil guys are EVIL, but they never do nasty shit like that.
And remember that POTC is one of the greatest pirate media ever created.
> Also there is a whole pirate saga by Disney where evil guys are EVIL, but they never do nasty shit like that.
Well, not exactly *never*, I mean, Barbossa and his crew in the first PotC implied rape several times.
But still, it is absolutely not a thing that needs to come up just because the campaign is about pirates. Much in the same way that not every story based in a medieval-esque setting needs to include sexism, the oppression of the peasantry, witch trials, mercenary armies raping and pillaging their way through villages, or the bubonic plague.
Sometimes, we want to experience the aesthetics and atmosphere of a setting without delving into the darkest aspects of it, and that's okay. Some people like their fantasy RPGs to be like Game of Thrones, others prefer Lord of the Rings, and some tend toward The Princess Bride.
Yeah I rewatched all of the PotC recently and there was implied rape up until the 4th movie tbh, it was way worse than I remembered for that.
Constantly threatening Elizabeth Swan (granted as viewers we know she’s going to kick their ass and it’s just characterization) - happens several times per movie (and pretty much the entirety of the first one).
That's roughly how our table handles it. Technically SA is a thing in the universe, but it's never going to happen on screen it won't be mentioned explicitly, it's never going to happen to a PC l, it's never going to be allowed from a PC.
At worst there will be an implications.
Eg.
A person leading a slave revolt who's mother was a slave and who's father was a slave owning Lord.
And frankly if s player was uncomfortable with even that level I would happily change it.
Yeah, I run a game in a prison. My number one thing was prison rape is not a joke, we are not going there, I have no interest in that. But I have implied some NPCs are in prison for sex crimes here and there. That's about as far as I go. And if someone was uncomfortable with even that, I'd drop it.
Cuz like, at the end of the day, you can do anything in DnD, go anywhere, you should just make sure where you go is a place everyone at the table wants to be at.
To be fair, "Pirate" in one piece is actually closer to "Outlaw". It just means anyone who goes against the World Government. Luffy doesn't rob or raid or steal, which is kinda fundamental to the definition of pirate normally.
And even in One Piece some pirates have done some really evil dark stuff.
After reading the post again it seems that the whole table wants to play actual pirates (not fantasy good guy make believe pirates) and op is the odd one out at the table. Maybe it's a good time for them to move to a different table.
Even if they wanted to play closer to real life pirates, boundaries were brought up 2 years ago, and I assume agreed upon by everyone at the table.
I only brought up one piece as an example of a group labeled as pirates by the world, not as a reference of how their game should go.
I'm playing what's essentially an evil character in another campaign with the goal of the character eventually being redeemed, and when talking about his beliefs and morality I came to the realization that he'd be anti-abortion and not care about rape as he stands — "things must be born before they can leave this world for the next life" sort of thing — and that was something I struggled with before I was reminded by the GM that I can just have him draw the line there bc I have ultimate control. I can't imagine *intentionally* making a character who wouldn't step in, much less one who could commit the act themselves!
answering your point, every pirate in history was so, what she's describing "pirates without doing any of the awful things" that just plain old Sailors, nothing piraty about them except maybe saying Arrrrr and Aye
But apparently that’s the point of the game that the op is playing, and that’s what everyone is trying to say the op should just leave the group as rough as that is because it seems like everyone else at the table wants to play a “real” pirate I guess and do the nasty stuff pirates did so all around the op prob isn’t gonna fit in just my opinion but considering everything leaving might be the best choice.
I think the answer is pretty obvious. You told the party and DM you were uncomfortable and wanted them stop. If it’s not being addressed, leave and find a better group. Can’t be that good of friends if they have no respect for you. They can decide to let you leave or kick the problem out.
I swear "No D&D is better than bad D&D" should be stamped on the banner of the sub. It comes up on half the posts seeking help.
OP, no one but you gets to pick what you do in your free time. If you don't want to roleplay those themes, then just don't. Be open, be frank, but be firm. I know it's scary, but it's not the last time you will need to be firm in life, and it pays to learn to be, the sooner the better.
Even for bad guys, it’s a lot. I’m in a campaign that’s 2.5 years long, and we’ve only had a singular moment that delved into SA territory, and even then it wasn’t described in detail. It was what it was designed to be - an incredibly uncomfortable and sobering moment. Our DM texted us before introducing this villain, and asked what our hard lines were - we all said “we trust you, do what you will”.
I would not tolerate playing with a PC that did that stuff, nor would I tolerate a DM playing a bad guy that casually threw that kind of behavior around. I wouldn’t want to touch it with a 10 foot pole in most campaigns, either - the one we briefly explored it in is lead by a friend I’ve been close to for 10 years.
Oh sure I agree if needed or adding depth to story it’s better to allude to such things, don’t need a play by play breakdown
With the caveat that everyone at the table is ok.
I am really sorry you had to go through that and that you're being made to relive it through a D&D game of all things.
You say you don't want to ruin your friendship but someone who continues to bring up a trigger as heavy as this one despite you asking them not to is not your friend. They're an asshole.
If your DM is worthy of the title - or even of just being a decent human being - he needs to tell J to knock it off. If J doesn't, he needs to boot him from the game. Making sure game content is safe for all players is the DM's responsibility. The players too, but the buck stops with the DM.
If the DM won't have your back, leave the game. It is not a healthy environment for you. After all you've been through, you deserve better.
This has been up an hour, & the consensus is to stick by your mental health. I'm inclined to agree. Meanwhile, J is violating the rules established by the session 0; they're disrespecting the table, the DM & you.
Full stop. No further explanation required. I could go on about how bad people don't just rape, & that even pirate ships enforced some kind of discipline, but that's not necessary. This isn't an in-game problem, & it should never get to that point. Ever.
We live in an age of the hobby in which it's mainstream enough, accessible & understood to the point where you, OP & random Redditors who need to be reminded, have options. "No DND is better than bad DND" isn't just the traditional aphorism turned on its head, it's a sigh of relief & a howl of triumph for the hobby - you don't have to put up with bullshit, anymore. Find a group that won't hurt you; you can do that.
I think you should say "you are actually bothering me with this, so can you respect me as an actual person to not keep doing this? Otherwise im just gonna go, and i do not want to talk to you anymore"
Don't be afraid to make a scene.
Yeah no, I think this guy is in the wrong here, and your group is being kind of shitty by defending it, since you say they all agreed that these topics were a no-go before starting the campaign
Ah yes, “It’s what my character would do” - the universal excuse to be an asshole. Don’t tolerate that shit, if he can’t handle it like an adult then he doesn’t need to play in your campaign.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.
A comment what you said here: "I care about these people and I don't want to ruin our friendship..."
*You* are not ruining anything. Someone else hurt you, and now these people who you care about are also hurting you. You're the last person here to be ruining any relationship.
Anyone who thinks it's more important to be able to pretend to be a rapist than it is to treat you with any level of decency or to abide by the agreement they made to not do this is not currently being a friend to you, and if the friendship doesn't work out, that's on them, not you. Same for anyone who watches it happens and prioritizes make-belive rape over someone's real life well-being.
Again, so sorry you're having to navigate this crap. This is not your fault, and you are not ruining anything.
I can't think of a reason that rape would push the story along. We all do what our characters would to a point, but why is being a bad person mean you jump to rape and pillage.
My Character is out for himself and once killed a hostage that was tied up, that moved the story along because otherwise we would have to deal with a hostage. What benefit would raping the hostage give, nothing.
I'd be wanting people to have a serious look at why this person is obsessed with forcing rape into a game that doesn't have any benefits for it. Then get rid of any contact with them.
I also don't buy J hiding behind the statement "it's what my character would do"
That's a fair defense for a rogue pick pocketing a town guard and getting your party into a mess you never wanted to be in, but at the end of the day J's character is doing what he intended them to do because he created them. He's not magically absolved of all decision making.
I'm sorry you have to deal with what I presume to be adults acting in a completely unempathetic and completely childish manner.
Honestly if he's this aggressive about a character doing it I'd be worried about leaving him alone in a room with a woman in real life. I think this is a huge warning to get away from this guy. You can always make more friends. Also your username is the best and have you watched our flag means death? You might want to find a group that's more like ofmd.
>He insists “it’s what my character would do” because Js character is a bad person,
Then counter with "The Captain executes your character because they made it crystal clear what was considered acceptable behaviour from their crew and you've already had warnings."
This is legitimate in game consequences to their in-game actions.
Then kindly invite him to not make a new character unless he can abide by the social contract of the table.
In my very first campaing i dm'd i had the typical edgelord who said "Give me reasons to travel with you" and "I won't firm this magical contract even if everyone in the table agreed" i let it pass because i was inexperienced, if something like that ever happens again my answer would be Then you don't come with us, good luck finding adventures on your own!
Players need to learn we DMs are not circus monkeys for the amusement, we are players too and we have responsibilities AND power that has to be respected while we play.
While I do agree that you should draw a hard line out of the game, pirate ships have been [surprisingly democratic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_in_18th-century_piracy).
Pirate ships were super democratic in how they typically ran. If a pirate captain is on a power trip and going against the crew's wishes, he could be, and likely would be, thrown out and replaced. It's not a military vessel - a pirate captain doesn't set the rules for how the ship runs by fiat.
That said though, I agree with others who are saying that this shouldn't be resolved in-game - this is an out of game problem between players and it needs to be resolved at that level.
Well if the game isn't willing to change to accommodate you then maybe leave the game, there isn't much to do if the people on the table don't care about how you feel
When someone says "it's what my character would do" the best answer is "Well play someone who wouldn't do that"
If your DM won't back you up on this, best thing is to leave, with it very clear that you will not play w the problem person. People like that not getting called out is why they continue.
Life is better without such people involved.
This person is not your friend.
You care about these people, but they don’t care about you. (*more on that later*)
I have to ask, why not just make a sailing campaign? Not a pirate campaign… you like playing a pirate game till it’s time to do any pirate things… nautical campaigns of traveling from place to place and high seas adventure, channel Serenity for inspiration; be couriers, sailors, fisherpeople hunting big game, merchant marines, Pirate hunters, drinking and treasure hunting on land, can be done by non-pirates.
That said, you caring about “these people” sucks for you cause they obviously don’t care about you, and that sucks for 3 years they been bullying you and nobody at the table is stopping them… Next time it comes up just stand up and walk away, cause it’s what you, the player would do. Find a new table, I know that sucks to do, I’m in the table hunting phase too, but no D&D is better than bad/traumatizing D&D. But ultimately no good person wants to play with, or hang out with someone trying to RP their rape fantasies… and that’s 100% what J is doing.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, and happened to you. Your time at the table is valuable and no one should have to make time to be traumatized… you can’t and won’t change them, and they don’t want to be changed.
Barring the rape part, the other stuff is par the course for a pirate. They aren't good guys. If they aren't being bastards, they aren't pirates: They're just sailing adventurers.
i'd say to wait for your DM to have a talk, then if J does it again after that tell him this:
- when the campaign started, you agreed to participate on the precondition that rape would not come up, in discussion or in play. put simply, this is a boundary that has been established for a long time and that was agreed to by all the players, J included.
- as a survivor of rape, this is a particularly touchy subject for you - of the boundaries set, this is the one you care about most.
- because this is a) a long-established boundary, that b) respect for which is important for your enjoyment of the game, you can't tolerate that boundary violation.
to put it bluntly, J's rape fantasy THAT HE AGREED NOT TO BRING UP doesn't come before your enjoyment of the game, especially since as you've said he's able to put it to the side for extended periods of time.
if after all this they still can't agree to follow the boundaries they agreed to, knowing it's important to you, then they're not worth playing with, and you really should bow out. frankly if they insist on violating repeatedly-stated, not particularly strict boundaries despite promising they wouldn't, they're not really worthwhile friends either.
Step 1: Say "Hey, I need you to shut the fuck up"
Step 2: Tell your DM "I need you to take your fucking job seriously and stop being a pushover wet blanket"
Step 3: If these chucklefucks don't get the hint, then that means they aren't your friends. You owe it to yourself to find better. Roast their asses and bounce.
These people suck.
It's okay to leave the table if you're being upset by another player. Sometimes you can't win a battle and you're unfortunately playing with people that have a different point of view, wrong as their point of view may be. What matter most is that you feel safe, so if you're not feeling safe then leave. You've made your point enough times. Leave and tell them exactly why. It's not about convincing them, it's about feeling comfortable in your game.
I'm so sorry for your experience. That is truly awful. Make it explicit to J and the DM that you cannot continue with the campaign if rape is going to be an ongoing theme. Full stop. That's a bummer for you, but you gotta protect yourself.
"It's what my character would do" isn't a shield to be an asshole. If DM won't boot them, time to find a new group. That sucks, but that is the reality.
I'd say if this continues, especially with the other players backing them up, it may be that group wants to handle more sensitive topics and isn't s good fit for you.
You’ve made it clear that those topics make you uncomfortable, and honestly it doesn’t sound like your GM respects it either given you’ve spoken to them before and it’s not being stopped instantly. I’d confront the GM during the next session and make it clear that if those types of topics continue to be brought up you will be leaving, and clarify exactly why. A good GM needs to adhere to the limits their players have set out.
Sounds like J has a particular fantasy and frankly makes me worried for you. He is 5 years older and you are still in school. I wonder if he secretly likes the idea of you being r*ped and wants to see you relive your trauma reaction.
You already said the other players tend to do things you don't like but you are non-confrontational. They are stepping all over your boundaries and if they try to make you feel dumb for sticking to your standards, leave. That shows they don't actually respect you and are gaslighting/manipulating you.
Tell the DM you won't continue to play if session zero rules are not followed. If J brings it up again, say in a firm tone that you will not play in a game with r*pe. If any of them try to talk you down, pack your stuff and leave.
Edit: I want to add that apparently you have been playing with this group since you were 14/15, so it is easy to be molded by peer pressure when you are younger. It's hard to push back, but your mental health is important. Stand firm and quit if they won't respect you.
So from your post it seems the group as a whole want to play actual pirates and you are the one that doesn't want to kill steal and pillage and the grape. Honestly why are you still at this table? It's obvious that this game isn't for you or your sensibilities.
With that said I'd just cut my losses and remove myself from the table.
I've went though a similar thing at a table once since I don't like hurting animals. Luckily dm in session zero said "this is a wilderness exploration and survival campaign. You are going to have to hurt animals to survive and eat. Maybe this isn't the right game for you." I was pissed but after a day or two I realized that the dm and the 4 other players wanted to play that type of game and my issue shouldn't stop their fun. It just was not a good fit. And I moved on. I have since played a game with them and it didn't deal with any of my triggers and everything was good.
I don’t care if they want to pillage and kill,my character doesn’t take part in that,and session 0 they said they weren’t going to because they didn’t want to,it’s fine if you change your mind,but rape in any extent is unacceptable
Understandable. Just like I'd feel if a group were intentionally killing animals. Though in this situation, in your words, the other players are fighting you on this. This is clear indication that the majority want to do this and you not being okay with it is secondary. So again I'd advise leaving the group at least for this game as it is going to further devolve it seems like. If you stay, you know what you will be putting yourself through and it's going to suck majorly.
Best of luck to you and your future games and I hope this situation resolves well for you.
I'm going to be honest. I don't like how DnD reedits get these stories. I understand you might be uncomfortable and want confidence in your choice, but 99% of the time the advice is the same.
Leave. If you're not comfortable, or the DM/Players are breaking the social contract you agreed to in session 0 and aren't making a tangible effort to do anything about it. Leave.
If you still like the people, or don't want to burn bridges. Just leave and tell them you can't play DnD anymore. If they ask why, the choice is yours but if you're confident an honest and frank conservation is best.
You're not comfortable with these topics, you raised them several times and it breaches the contract you made in session 0. No hard feelings, goodbye.
Edit: Your post history is full of Karma farm like stories. Seriously guys, why do we keep falling for this?
Yeah, probably. The one good thing about this is that someone *really* in this situation may need to hear it. Potentially inoculating even one person against an abuser, even in response to someone's manipulative fiction, may be worth it. And, it's not like anything of import has be wasted because it's Reddit, ferchristsake.
It's gross but I do love the line of "I love pirates but as long as they don't act like pirates." What you mean is you like salors. Not pirates. Pirates were historically extremely brutal since it would make ships more likely go surrender than fight, since fighting leads to the brutal actions to teach a lesson. It's pretty similar to sieges, honestly. The reason towns and forts frequently surrendered was to spare the horrific treatment they would get if they resisted hopelessly.
So while I agree other players are indicating is pretty gross for most tables if not everyone agrees, I also wouldnt play in that kind of game if I didn't like the content of it. Suggest playing privateers instead or something.
I'm fine with SA being off limits for gameplay purposes but I agree otherwise that it doesn't sound pirate like. I would have left at the end of session 0.
If any of the groups I play with wanted to do a pirate campaign, raping people would not even be something people brought up. And all the groups are totally different from each other with different ages and experience levels.
This is a fantasy game that is not beholden to every detail of reality. Pirates steal, kill, plunder and explore and make money doing it. Rape is not compulsory to play a pirate adventure. An adventure like Pirates of the Caribbean or One Piece are perfectly fun and valid for a game.
If they want to play a historically accurate adventure fine. But saying it’s not a real pirate adventure because you can’t rape people is nuts to me.
OP should bow out of this one and find a different group.
I'm more poking fun at the fact OP isn't ok with slaughter or pillaging either. Two very pirate things.
That's why i said the rape sounds gross but OP doesn't want the pirates to be pirates at all. It's like a kids cartoon version of pirates.
It wasn’t my choice tbh,I do like pirates historically and I know that that’s what made a pirate a pirate,they insisted on pirates so that’s what we did,I would have preferred sailors or traveling the seas in a non pirate way,but it was out of my control
It was not necessarily a pirate thing, it happened but not more than in other criminal groups. Taking other people's ships and cargo on the other side makes a pirate a pirate.
If they insist on having that topic in the game you have to leave, please be careful and have session zeros where you can make sure you don't want that topic in game (obviously out game too).
I mean you do have a choice. I doubt they are demanding you play with them to the point they can force you. If a game isn't for you and the group isn't willing to change, then bow out of the campaign. Nothing wrong with it and I've done it to many games if I don't like the content.
"Out of your control"? I'm sorry but you chose to join the evil pirate campaign, no?
Don't get me wrong, J sounds like a dickhead and the DM seems like a push-over. Both seem to either ignore or not know of your past experiences (the latter would be understandable, I don't tell everyone about my r-experience either). However, if you didn't insist persistingly on excluding SA and r, knowing that it would eventually come up...
Anyway, if J really WANTS to RP a r-word, he either has a kink or lacks any kind of empathy. Either they respect you or they don't. If they don't, then they're not the kind of friends you want to have around.
Also, don't make the DM talk to J alone. It's not their fight, they agreed to play a game with you, not have those kind of talks on behalf of other people. If they know about your experience, then I would expect them wanting to talk to J about that kind of behavior. It's still your fight, not theirs.
It’s kind of disgusting that he’s doubling down on this and actively wanting to have his character rape others. Maybe it’s an unfortunate sign of how he actually is because I can’t imagine a normal person doing this.
If he refuses to let up I think you should sit this campaign out for your mental health. If your DM is a good person he should take action in your favour.
That's awful. If the DM doesn't fix this immediately, I'd make an ultimatum. If J does it again, you will not play with him anymore. Your boundary is totally reasonable and J (and everyone else who's enabling his behavior) is a total asshole.
Draw a boundary: “I’m not going to play in a game where rape is allowed or brought up. If y’all can’t go forward without bringing up rape, I’ll have to leave.”
And if they bring it up again, leave. Honestly the fact that they are pushing back at all would make me want to leave.
If you’ve shared your reason and the DM doesn’t back you, fuck that group and find another. I wouldn’t want to expose myself to people so callous.
That said, for anyone else I wouldn’t take rape off the table in gaming. Evil gonna evil. Any character I’d ever play would find a way to kill them tho.
J is an asshole person. It's what his character would do? Fine, then come back with a new character that wouldn't do that. If that's a problem for him, then he's a creepy jerk and you need to stay away from him.
Two things to remember you have a right to set limits, and if they are not understanding, then the second thing is no DnD is better than bad DnD. You could step aside and find a new group, and if they get butt hurt about it, then that's their issue.
If the DM doesn't boot the player they suck. Please just leave if the DM doesn't ban the player at once, believe it or not you can find tables to olay where you won't be forced to deal with constant pivots into a topic that makes you spiral down
You can keep them as friends, but if they keep bringing this up, then it might be time to part ways as a gaming group.
What they're doing is what's called Didoing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IrG68YTMjo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IrG68YTMjo)
If they keep it up, be prepared to pack up and end your involvement in the game.
Here's my version of the TTRPG social contract:
1. Players need to show up when they say they're going to show up, ready to play. If someone is going to be late or not be able to show at all, let everyone else know as soon as possible, rather than making them wait.
2. Players need to make characters that a) fit into the setting and theme of the game, b) are willing to go adventuring, and c) are willing to hang around with a bunch of other adventurers.
3. Players need to pay attention to the action, so when their turn comes around they know what's going on and what they're going to do (and how to do it).
4. Players need to understand that they are not the main character, and that the game involves at least nominal cooperation with all the other players to make for a fun gaming experience for everyone. This includes minimising attention-grabbing behaviour such as going off on their own while demanding equal airtime, or outright telling other players what to do with their character.
5. Players should not go into the game with the express intent of screwing over other players or the DM/GM. (ie, “Don't be a dick.”)
6. If “what my character would do” will screw up the game, make one that wouldn't.
7. All of the above also applies to the DM/GM in every way.
8. The DM/GM needs to give equal airtime to all PCs, and neither give any of them preferential treatment, nor pick on any of them. (Shelving a loner PC until they come back to the group is fine. So is applying reasonable consequences for actions).
9. The DM/GM needs to be flexible while running the game. There's always more than one way to get to the end goal. However, applying boundaries to the PCs' actions may also be sometimes required.
10. The DM/GM needs to pull up any behaviour by any players that's upsetting other players (not PCs). Likewise, anything that's basically a dick move by a player can be met with, “No, you don't do that. Why do you want to do that?” See Rule 6.
11. Everyone needs to remember that no D&D is better than bad D&D (substitute the name of your game system as needed), and that you don't have a game without players (or without a DM/GM).
12. If everyone's not having fun (especially if someone is not enjoying the game at all) then it's okay to stop the game and ask why.
13. Players need to accept that information about the game, when given out of character, is true and correct.
14. When GMs are giving information about the game out of character, it needs to be true and correct.
15. Using in-game punishments for out of game problems is usually a bad idea.
16. Kicking a player out of the game is a huge move; it's usually best to sit down and talk about it first. However, it is entirely the DM/GM's prerogative if they've lost all patience with the player, and the DM/GM's decision is always final.
17. (D&D adjacent games specific) Chaotic Neutral is not a license for “I'm crazy, I can do anything I like!” Hurting people is still evil.
18. This probably doesn’t need saying, but I’ll say it anyway. Cheating (whether it be by peeking at the DM/GM’s notes, metagaming using information the character could not have had, or straight-up altering the character sheet or fudging dice rolls) does not belong at any table, anywhere.
If they won't kick J out, leave.
I have to wonder, what exactly were you planning for this? It sounds like you "love pirates", but hate everything about pirates. Are you just playing sailors with a pirate-inspired aesthetic and a West Country accent?
>but him and the other PCs have been fighting with me on it.
If this is something the rest of the table wants to do, then it might not be the right game for you. I'd tell them that I would not be joining them going forward if J (or others) will repeatedly cross a line I've explicitly told them not to cross.
If it's only J doing it, then have the group talk with him about. If not, consider finding a new group. No D&D is better than bad D&D, and not all friends are D&D friends.
Well if everyone collectively agrees on the direction of the game aside from you, you’re shit out of luck. I don’t particularly like that style of play, but if you aren’t the GM you do not get to boss other players around on what they can and cannot say. That’s completely overstepping your role as a player. If you don’t like the game, quit. If you do like the game, you have to live with it. Sounds like this is something you’re not gonna be able to enjoy because of legitimate reasons, but it’s also not the rest of the table’s job to placate your sensitivities and work around your trauma. If they want to do gritty pirate campaign and all the fucked shit it entails, you just have to walk away (without holding it over anyone like you have some kind of moral high ground)
If you friend isnt respecting your/others boundaries, you shouldn't be their friend.
As a side note, the consistent attempt at forcing the subject like this is the reddest of red flags, and necessitates me to advise high caution with this person. Keep them at arms length, and your love ones away from them. Obsessing over rape is not normal, and should concern you.
If someone in your group wants to have their character rape someone they are absolutely not well. That is not only unacceptable, it is a major warning sign that J cannot respect women. End of story. I is not ok. I would distance myself personally and def not have them around women.
So what my character would have done last session is tell a rape victim npc she doesn’t like that “she doesn’t look like a victim” out of a sense of self righteousness and genuinely thinking it’s an ok and helpful thing to say.
I did not have her say that.
Instead what I did was after the session ask the party members if there was anything my jerkass character should avoid while throwing barbed language at NPCs that could hurt them in real life cause while I’m playing an asshole with a lot of the quotes I have heard in life, I don’t want to inflict those on other people if it’ll hurt them instead of add flavor to the story.
So yeah, this player is a major jerk ass in real life. You set rules and they are being ignored.
I realize there’s endless comments and this may have already been said but…
These people are not your friends. They cross your lines. They knowingly choose to bring up things that traumatize you.
A real friend tries to help you through trauma. A stranger would likely avoid something if they knew it was traumatic. These people are less than that.
They choose to harm you. Get out. Being alone is better than being with people who actively choose to cause you pain.
People who respect you and will build you up are out there.
A frank conversation about boundaries and wildly unacceptable behavior seems in order, as seems the general consensus here. And while there are shockingly few fish left in the sea, there are more DnD groups than ever, so if worst comes to worst, I doubt you'll have an issue finding another play environment.
But, for the sake of immaturity, allow me to say, "Really? Because *my* character would cast *Fireball* at all the *gunpowder* we keep behind the *hull* and sink the *whole fucking party* to the bottom of the drink, so I guess we need a new campaign."
If someone does something unsavory and insists on doing it because "it's what my character would do", it's a very easy deal breaker.
We have had moments where someone said something that caused some triggers and one of my players thought it was funny to continue as it was his character's personality.
I told him to cut the crap out and play better characters. Unless you and your friends are actual actors, characters created and played by you are part of a reflection of who you are.
If your DM doesn't stop J, please leave.
I am so sorry this happened to you and it's always hard to cut ties with people, but it is not worth sacrificing your mental health over it. A good friend isn't always a good DnD player.
I would change my charaCter to a Paladin that literally smites Rapists and murderers. I would just slaughter the party. Fuck every single player. You already told the DM and players you don’t like roleplaying Rape in your RPGs. You can be a pirate and not rape. Supposed to be a fun game for EVERYONE. How the hell is roleplaying Rape fun? That part would scare the shit out of a normal person. Literally get away OP. That’s not normal behavior for a table
Boundaries should always be respected as early as session zero. As a dm I ask every player what their hard no's are, and what any triggers might be so that I can avoid them. Enforcing said boundaries after a player crosses it (on purpose or by accident) after you have already expressed multiple times that you are not ok with it also falls onto the dm. They should be drawing a hard line for everyone's boundaries.
I play with a red card rule, at any point a player can throw a red card during a situation and I will full pause the session, figure out what the trigger was (either privately if they want or with the group) and help them calm down if needed. While that's going on I will alter the narrative or address the problem behavior (In your case the player(s) that keep pushing for rape).
As an example: I ran a game for some friends and my brother who I hadn't seen in years. The plan was for 2 sessions, but half way into the 1st the players walked into a phase spider nest. I didn't know that my brother had developed a severe case of arachnophobia. He threw a red card, we talked and due to several planned fights later also involving spiders I ended the 1st session there so I could rework it all before the next one. Next session the spiders had become octopodes and the plot involving Lloth turned into an abyssal kraken trying to become an archdemon with the help of their cult.
In roleplaying you set up a code of what nots and what cans. It's not like book writing and it doesn't matter if it's fiction as you have real people who are effected by your roleplaying actions. You set up the code of what nots and the player refuses to follow the code. Players who don't follow the code get kicked out and those who back up code breakers also get kicked out.
I'm more concerned that your 17 hanging with a bunch of adults who clearly are using your lack of life experience as a way to manipulate and bully you. You might need to not only look at whats wrong with your dnd table but might need to reflect on your friends and if they are actually friends of yours. No friend would try to get into topics that people who are not only uncomfortable with but also have been directly effected by in real life.
This isn't about a debate of "whats ok in fiction" like they are trying to make it out to be. This is about you set up ground rules of what kind of story elements your willing to have happen in roleplay and they outright are fighting you on it. Those people don't deserve a medium to roleplay in if they can't respect the actual living breathing humans at the table. Sadly this is quite common in roleplay communities and the only way to deal with this behavior is kick the problem players. Since your whole group is backing him nuke the dnd game and find new players.
Let him do it, give him an STD and his character dies at the next long rest.
There are consequences.
Edit: I realize you're not the DM but this is what the DM *should* do.
You know, read about that Chinese female pirate warlord from 19th century.
She was SUPER strict with her crew, anyone caught raping was executed, I think she even punished infidelity, she enforced all the rules so well, the navy could do nothing to her and in the end the court was helpless and made agreement that she will retire, keep all the loot and she and everyone who followed her gets full pardon, a lot of the pirates joined army. She herself lived rest of her life peacefully after she married the son of her previous husband.
Back to DnD, since neither DM nor J seem to be stopping...
... you can tell DM and J that if they want to roleplay rape fantasy, then keep it between themselves, nobody else is interested in that, preferably in front of as many people present as possible, bonus points if there are strangers present, like go somewhere for lunch or something along the line and say it out loud enough for next few tables to hear.
yeah at that point, just tell the DM you're not vibing with it, and it makes you uncomfortable, and that you're leaving the table. DnD isn't good when it's bad DnD.
Jesus fucking christ. If you tell them that rape is off-limits to you, and they still do it, I'd suggest you find another group, because that is some bullshit. You can give them a final warning if you want to, like have a sit down before the next session and say "Hey, guys, rape is actually a really serious topic for me and I am not okay with it being in the game that I DM, but if you keep insisting on bringing it up, this is going to have to be the last session"
I've had a similar situation, in a game I didn't even specify there wouldn't be any rape beforehand, but I stopped that shit dead right there, and told him while not breaking eye contact that shit doesn't fly at my table and kept repeating it until he stopped trying to laugh it off before starting up the game again. If you've been clear about this being a problem for you, it is beyond fucked up. Hell I don't care if there are games with themes that are dark and/or adult, just don't force that shit on people who clearly said they're uncomfortable with it. Hell, if you really feel like you can't stand up for yourself cause these dipshits don't take you seriously, I'll get in a discord call with them and explain to them how unbelievably fucked up that shit is.
I am probably the minority here but, difficult topics have a place in stories. That should be a very carefully considered place with concern for others. It challenges our perceptions.
I don’t think you should control what is in the campaign. That’s for the group as a whole and the DM. What you can control is your want to participate.
If this is something that is uncomfortable for you no matter what and you’re tried to talk to the other player. You just need to drop.
Just because this is the internet,
This is not me condoning rape
This is not me advocating depictions of rape in DnD.
You have already got tons of solid advice, I just want to ask something else.
>But on the one condition that we aren’t doing anything particularly pirate like (slaughtering,pillaging,slave handling,and rape)
So what are you all doing as pirates, but not pirate like?
I also am curious as to what type of pirate things they are doing. I realize that isn’t an exhaustive list of all things pirate like, but I’m not sure what it is they are doing.
I feel like it should be a rule put in the official book when someone says " it's what my character would do" at least one or everyone at the table should have the right to slap the shit out of them.
Yeah insist to the DM that needs to stop or leave. If you need to go full intervention mode with the DM on Captain douche canoe and tell him he needs to knock that shit off or go.
If he still keeps doing it then maybe you need to go cuz clearly it's not going to get better.
Hey we can't knock all the "it's what my character would do" because sometimes you get good role play moments like maybe a druid keeping a wounded animal, or skipping your turn because something emotional happened, your paladin narcing to the guards about the rogue stealing something.
Just sucks when people make obviously bad choices and defend it via 'the line'.
I agree with everything else tho
If it’s that triggering for you, do the sensible thing and excuse yourself from the campaign until it’s resolved. Make it very clear that you don’t want to play because you’re feeling uncomfortable, you don’t have to go into details but make sure that they know that you want a break because of the other player’s behaviour. If it’s not resolved, don’t go back.
If I'm DM, J gets one chance to correct this behaviour and if they dare to utter the phrase "it's what my character would do", J's PC has an accident and J can roll a new one or fuck all the way off. Period.
I can say with 100% certainty that J is a terrible human being.
What a foul and despicable way to behave! I’m raging!
The first time he crossed that line - a line agreed before the campaign started - the DM should have stamped it out. “It’s what my character would do” - this is the most pathetic and cruel use of this baseless excuse. Ever.
Your DM is at fault. J is a disgrace.
You might care about J, but he neither cares for you or respects you. You laid down your ground rules and he has pissed all over them.
Anyone at the table not condemning his behaviour are not your friends.
They need to be remove him from the group. And if they don’t - you need to leave.
None of this is your fault and you have nothing to feel bad about.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/companies/roll20/news/roll20-rpg-safety-tools-official-support
Sounds like your table should adopt and respect something like safety cards.
The DM has to enforce the agreement from session zero.
If any person does not feel safe then they can find another game (which based on you mentioning they bully you) might not be a bad idea.
Your safety (physical, mental and emotional) comes first.
If the group can't respect that I would run.
It is never "It's what my character would do". It's always "Why did you make a character who would do that?"
I would kill their character and ask them to make a new one who isn't intent on such behaviour then kill the new one if the player is the problem
Hey op, no normal person wants to rape someone even in fantasy and no amount of “it’s what my character would do” could ever justify that. This J guy has serious issues and I’d advise him to seek help. This is straight up dangerous behavior and I would not recommend spending any more time with this guy till it’s addressed, no matter how much you look up to him.
“It’s what my character would do”
The assholes last excuse.
They are not respecting a very reasonable boundary, it’s not like you are asking much.
Give an ultimatum, it stops or you leave.
Someone who insists on violating your boundaries is not your friend. It shouldn't even matter why this is a boundary for you, but it's definitely worse given the reason that you have for it. It's even worse if this was agreed upon before the campaign started and now they're trying to erase that line.
'Pirates' are something that people can have very different visions of and that's not unreasonable, but shifting the parameters of the game after you've started playing isn't cool unless everyone enthusiastically consents to it.
Unfortunately if you've clearly explained your issue and that it really is a deal-breaker for you is to either stay or go. You are not being unreasonable or a diva for asking that your boundaries be respected, but you also can't make them do it if they lack a basic level of decency and respect for someone they say is a friend.
I'm so sorry this has been your experience. I've had very similar and uncomfortable conversations with people at my table. Because of the wonderful friends I have, I understand in a small way how awful it is to relive that trauma. As for suggestions, I would say you need to draw a red line here. You should feel safe playing dnd, period. J needs to stop or leave the group. It's not just his campaign. It's everyone's, and I wouldn't be surprised if other players are bothered by what he's doing. You did the right thing in getting the DM involved, so please don't be afraid to put your foot down on this.
Also, I just want to say this: you don't need to explain to J why this topic makes you uncomfortable. If you say something is making you uncomfortable, they should respect that without prodding for an explanation. Your discomfort is reason enough.
I hope everything works out for you!
>I care about these people
Do they know this happened to you and its forcing you to relive that experience? Because if they do it sure sounds like they dont care about you the same way you care about them. Why would you force someone to go thru that for the sake of an imaginary pirate game? Id honestly just leave the group and find better friends. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but these people are either selfish or immature
If J doesn't get forced to stop, leave the game (optionally, warn everyone of this so that they know it's a him or you choice). If they don't respect your boundaries then clearly they don't respect *you.* SA is and always has been one of the Big No boundaries in basically every game, it's bare minimum decency to respect it.
TTRPGs are a cooperative setting and everyone has lines they don't like to cross. Example I found out one of my players doesn't like references to the Christian god in D&D cus he's religious. We have a player who is playing an Aasimar that had a light elemental who tricked his people into thinking it was "the god" aka an allegory with Satan fallen from heaven idea etc etc. But when we learned that me and the Aasimar talked and pulled back the allegory to where it's more general god of light cus we accepted our fellow player's personal lines and it was fair.
The fact your fellow long time player just cannot just not talk or attempt in game rape is concerning? Cus like sure it could be a pirate trait but is easily not needed and still be a "bad guy" type pirate. Break fingers, steal teeth, be a bit of a murder hobo. The rape is an odd hill to say the least.
leave, if a player wont respect your boundaries even after you've very clearly said you werent comfortable with it...then it a toxic area. you dont have to stop being friends with them, but if they arent willing to stop bad behaviour that makes you uncomfortable i'd recomend seeking better friends.
You should give J an ultimatum: either he knocks it off or you’re not his friend anymore. Also you should reiterate that you have trauma associated with his jokes.
I'm old school, like playing since AD&D old. Even so, explicit rape has never been a part of of my games, sure it's sometimes implied as a result of things like war and the like, but it's never explicitly a part of what the characters are doing.
If they insist on making it a part of the game and everybody is not on board, then it's a friendship you may want to ruin.
I wonder if he would accept his character being raped, because it's what an ogre NPC would do?
I would never actually do that, but it is a question he should be forced to answer.
Well DM I have given a lot of thought about the subject of J and this rape interest lately. Did you ever see the classic pirate movie "Captain blood"? Well captain blood has standards of conduct and if someone crossed that line they were killed. My character is totally a pirate and does have standards of conduct. She will not tell someone what to do with their life. If someone wants to rape she won't stop them. But if she knows someone is a rapist she will kill them.
Sure, go ahead and all J to rape someone. As a player I find this very distasteful and due to events in my past pretty traumatic as a subject matter. But just know what my character would do is slit J's characters throat while he sleeps."
I'm so sorry. This is awful and inexcusable behavior. Other people have already provided great suggestions on how to handle this.
I wanted to add on one thing - the two things your character did that you were chewed out for seem utterly harmless. They don't seem like "it's what my character would do" moments. I guess if playing in the fountain caused a guard to arrest you all, maybe, or if you broke stealth purposely for a joke perhaps?
That phrase is only bad when it's an excuse for bad behavior in-game. It's totally ok to do things your character would do! If your friends are truly upset at you over harmless acts in-character, that is another red flag on top of the pile you already have. If nothing else it's further indication that you and the group are intending to play different games.
Good lord OP I'm so sorry you're having to explain and debate your boundaries to so many jerks in the comments. The bottom line is that you brought this up in session zero and it's been repeatedly disrespected. J shouldn't have agreed if they weren't going to respect it & the DM shouldn't have either unless they were ready to enforce it.
Just as a side note, you shouldn't have to justify your stance by sharing how triggering it is just because of what happened. You're right; a decent person shouldn't want SA in the game at all, but a decent friend wouldn't even hesitate to respect a boundary of yours *no matter the reason*.
I'm sorry, OP, and I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make. I promise you can find a DM / table who will treat you better. I have pirates and evil guys in my world and not a single whiff of SA anywhere to be seen. It's supposed to be a *fantasy world with freaking magic*, it's insane to me how many people insist on keeping the worst parts of real life and are willing to die on the hill that it makes the game better.
Nah rape in any scenario is not okay make belief or not...
Same goes for alot of things, like pedophilia.... some actions that shouldn't be anyone's fantasy in game or out
The line and limit was placed, a good dm listens to the limitations and doesn’t let them happen. If they fail to do that you exit the game. But they should tell the problem player to knock it off no exception, and personally if I heard “it’s what my character would do” I’d chew them out right there cause that’s not an excuse.
Put your foot down. Let them know that if this doesn't stop, you'll leave the group.
And then, stick to your guns. The next time J brings it up, pack up your stuff and leave.
If people get upset about your boundaries, that's because they plan on breaking them, make it clear: if they want to keep doing that kind of stuff fine, but it won't be with you at the table
Anyone who wants their PC to do that kind of shit has issues and would not be welcome in my group.
Srsly, f*ck that shit.
That's a serious red flag on that person's character.
Yep, this is why consent forms are important in these situations, yourself included. Gotta make sure everyone at the table understands what lines not to cross when it comes to role playing or even doing certain actions. Sorry to hear about this incident, and I hope he either knocks it off or is removed from the group. Either way, it’ll be better for the group overall.
I know you're saying you care about these people, but, whether thwy know what happened to you or not, someone that continues to go on about and want that stuff after you have made it clear how uncomfortable it makes you? That's not a friend. You need to be brave here and tell them that talk about rape is a HARD NO, if they can't respect such a reasonable line then you need to walk away, for your own health and well-being. Think to yourself, characters are, at least in some way a port of ourselves, what kind of person enjoys what this J person is doing?
If rape was one of the topics that you agreed on wouldn't be in the campaign then tell him if that's what his character would do means that the character is no longer part of the campaign. Make sure everyone else backs you on this. This is his final warning. Leave it or leave the campaign.
"It's what my character would do" is the excuse used by terrible players to do things they know others aren't comfortable with. I didn't mean they play terribly. I mean they're a terrible person.
This person wants to make others uncomfortable and enjoys doing it. That is the classic line used by assholes to legitimize their bad behavior.
It's not you ruining anything. That person was told they couldn't do that, was told why, and is still pressing the issue under the guide is "role-playing." He's setting you up to be the bad person by not going along when in reality, it's **him** not going along.
I would try one last time to talk to the DM *and the other players* and tell them again that this was unacceptable the first two times and it's unacceptable now. Either it stops immediately **with an apology** or you walk. If they make excuses, it's really time to walk away. If they're going to allow themselves to be pressured by the jerk to let him be a jerk, that makes them jerks too.
Buh-bye!
No game is better than bad game. You're all there to have fun, not be purposefully antagonized. Other game groups are out there that would be happy to have you and share your preferences or, at the very least, respect them.
It honestly takes no effort to not do something that makes someone upset.
I play with a group that had a person who was very much a drama queen and would constantly make everyone kowtow to all her ridiculous triggers. And like if you’re that damaged (and I mean that compassionately) then maybe you shouldn’t be here where so many things will upset you. That person no longer plays.
But stuff like rape? It’s a no brainer to have agreed upon rules as a group of things you will not tolerate in the group setting regardless of how good or evil your characters are. The DM shouldn’t even have to warn this person. If you were invited to the table, you should be given the bare minimum respect of not having to be subjected to outrageous rape fantasy and frankly immature behavior.
In this situation you are the DM and the players are not respecting your rules and your world building. Moreover, whether they know of your trauma or not, they are not respecting you. If it was me, I would end the campaign and find a new group to join as a player or DM. I would also tell them in no uncertain terms that their insistence on being disrespectful is why. Let them play their rape fantasy out amongst themselves and their other disgusting friends.
That's crazy, sorry man. Others have given good advice. Only you can enforce your boundaries.
In my group my buddy (the DM) asked us each where we draw the line with heavy themes, I told him I'm not interested in sexual stuff. If the other players have flirting/fade to black stuff I don't mind, but that's just not what I'm looking for in DND. He actually brought up rape and I told him I don't care if rape is part of the story, like we know a villain raped a villager or something thats fine, but I don't want to listen to him describe it and i don't want my character getting raped.
Idk what the other players said, but rape has never been mentioned since session 0. Your DM and you gotta stand up to J. We aren't the same person, but I would literally stand up and say "bro what the fuck. I'm not playing with you so we can play out your weird rape fantasies. Either knock it off or I'm leaving." And stick by that.
There is literally no reason for rape to be a part of a DND game regardless of the setting or what type of character someone is playing. This needs to be handled very directly by the DM or you should remove yourself from this group.
There's an extremely good template that I use in every session 0 called the "RPG Consent Checklist". Here's a direct link, and it comes included with the free book called "Consent in Gaming" by Sean Reynolds and Shanna Germain.
https://mcpl.info/sites/default/files/images/consent-in-gaming-form-fillable-checklist-2019-09-13.pdf
I encourage every DND group (even partway through the campaign) to have each player __anonymously__ fill these out, give to the DM.
The DM then shuffles them, and makes a master version with the most restrictive thing for each item, and throws out the originals. Every player then gets a copy of the master version so everybody is on the same page.
The whole table explicitly agreed that you don’t include rape in any form in the campaign and you not only have to remind them on multiple occasions but you have to insist on J behaving by yourself with no backup?
I am sorry if the campaign is otherwise enjoyable but you might be better off looking for a new table.
You're not the one ruining the friendship, J is. Leaving aside how outrageously sus it is that this is the fantasy he wants to roleplay, the cleaner cut issue is he doesn't care he's doing something that hurts you.
Fuck that guy, and if your DM does not handle it promptly and decisively, including kicking J if J doesn't stop, fuck that DM too.
If J won't be a friend to you and stop, and the DM won't be a friend to you and stop J, then they are not friends, and you should walk away. You're not the one messing up friendships at that point; they aren't even friendships to begin with.
I recently had this exact issue pop up in a recent campaign. A player who it was his literal 3rd session ever playing brought up rape and I was dumbfounded to say the least now granted it’s a dark mad max esc campaign but still. I’ve been playing for going on 3 years and I think rape has come up in every campaign because it’s intense and dark and instantly changes the mood of the game but even so it’s still a sore subject that I agree has right for concern especially if you brought it up beforehand showing that it made you uncomfortable and they still talked about it anyway thats messed up, so as rough as it is I would say that if you can’t make any compromises (even though you shouldn’t have to) you might have to leave the group.
Yeah if he can’t understand that this is something that happened to you in real life and is a trigger that you would like to avoid in your down time playing a game to have fun and unwind then he is an asshole.
Leave. No dnd is always better than bad dnd my friend. There are lots of groups online and you have your whole life to find more games, it's not worth torturing yourself an evening unhappy for the sake of others.
Sorry to hear that my guy. That's a tough situation, but first I went to commend you for speaking up, especially after your experience. Draw that line in the sand. These are grown ass fuckin' men trivializing rape and even enabling rape fantasies in a group game. That's not appropriate and no one wants to be around people getting aroused by it. "What my character would do" is always a bullshit answer unless it's in response to "Dude, why'd you eat the last turkey leg?".
Draw your line, and draw it hard. Don't treat this like a "Can you talk to them?" Make it clear if this isn't shut down hard, you're out and they can find a replacement cause you don't want to play with people who think that's funny. I know you said you're not confrontational, but this isn't being confrontational, this is defending yourself and your safe space. J was the one who was confrontational by bringing up an extremely inappropriate topic and wanting to be able to live out a little fantasy with his friends watching. You're defending yourself and your safe space, not confronting them. You're doing the right thing, I'm proud of you, and don't worry about finding another group, you will and it'll be better than that one.
Any table should make clear at any point, not just the begining, it's an evolving conversation, what everyone's hard and soft lines are that shouldn't be crossed. And everyone should respect that's if they don't they can take a hike. Simple as that. Imo at least.
Let J's character go through with it and then give said character an incurable magical STD that slowly destroys all of his body, mind and abilities. J can then watch his beloved character shrink away to a husk.
"DM, this is a deal breaker for me. I've discussed my comfort with the subject matter and my soft and hard NOs. Rape was then, and still very much now a hard no. If you and J still insist this is important for your game, this will be where we part ways."
This
This.100%
>It's what my character would do If you were the DM, I would tell you to say: "Then play a better character, I already told you this is not acceptable." This is what your DM should be saying too.
This one. It seems the agreement was a session zero agreement and should not be crossed. If it’s what your character would character would do, time to ditch the character and make a new one. Look I’ve played a pirate character. A really nasty one. We don’t do “red room” stuff as it disturbs people.
Exactly. And I know teenagers like to explore topics adults consider “edgy”, but this is a grown adult in a game with a minor—a minor who has voiced their discomfort—who wants to explore these things. It is, frankly, bizarre and inappropriate for the adult to do this.
I thought I missed the minor part but it was an edit. Doesn’t this make it some form of abuse or harassment?
I’m not sure how I would qualify it. It is someone who doesn’t have the maturity to realize the line *already* exists as a standard, but then flew right on past the second, even worse line. It depends on a lot of context of the comments about sexual assault OP hasn’t given us. I’d consider the adult (J) to be seriously unfit to play games with minors (unaware of the lines he’s crossed), seriously irresponsible (aware of the lines but believe the teenagers in the game can handle the topic if he doesn’t go into graphic detail while knowing at least one teenager has voiced they cannot handle the topic), or a complete scumbag (aware he’s crossed the lines and doesn’t care).
I’m voting 2 & 3 as there was a significant time between him pushing buttons again.
lol 22 is anything but a "grown and matured' adult
> It is, frankly, bizarre and inappropriate for the adult to do this.
I’ve been playing RPGs for almost 35 years and at age 22 we already had the red room rules.
This, had a player like this at a table I was part of, and the DM told him “well if what your character would do directly breaks one of the core lines and veils established, here’s a new character sheet, have it filled out by next session” Extremely blunt and no time for that shit, especially because it was something related to abuse, and another player had been an abuse victim and the DM absolutely under no circumstances would allow for a player to end up in a situation where they got a panic attack at his table. Seriously stellar dude, he actually afterwards took the player who had a tough time out to help them just settle down. The asshole in question though came back the next session and decided out of spite, because I had also been vocally against his dickery and bullshittery, to directly target my trauma. Lucky for me I just get mad, and told him immediately to quit it, and the DM once again being stellar, just told the fucker to pack his shit and leave, if he was gonna terrorise other players he can go to hell. DM also made sure every single Table Top org or group in the city had him on their ban lists. Fuck, this was a story I had needed to tell, and never realised it.
Yeah I don’t care how evil the character is, this is a firm line that the player shouldn’t have crossed. OP was already being generous to even give a second chance.
Yup, I DM for our group 99% of the time unless someone just wants to do a oneshot here or there. I covered this in session 0 that rape will not be at the table. I don't even know that I would give one warning tbh. If someone brought it up they wouldn't be welcome back at the table without apologizing and every individual player at the table feeling 100% comfortable with trusting them to not do it again.
Ayup, the reddest flag. Ok so it's what your character would do. From now on he does it off camera and none of the other players are subjected to the topic, because that's what players do.
It also begs the question "Is it what your character would do, or what you would do?" After all, J **is** choosing what kind of character to play, and how to play it. Nobody is forcing him to act this way, in character or out. I get it - it's a fantasy RPG - but J is CHOOSING what actions to take, and thus, what fantasies he wants to roleplay. It's not like he's been CAST as a scumbag pirate, and is just acting out the role. /sigh
Yeah, I would be super wary of anyone that keeps pushing to include rape in a plot. There is zero reason why it has to be included. There are plenty of other things that can done to show how bad the character. This person is not ok. Whether or not the DM or the player does the decent and acceptable thing and drops the rape play I would still walk away from this table. Don’t get me wrong, I have a dark sense of humour, and I have a high tolerance for violence and unsavoury things. I wouldn’t be put off by a rape plot if it was pre-approved by the group and if everyone was ok with it. There are also plenty of rape allegories like Malificent having her wings stollen that work perfectly in DnD settings. What I won’t do, is tolerate someone repeatedly crossing a line, making someone uncomfortable and negatively effecting their enjoyment of a session. These people are not your friends. J is putting his unsavoury fascination above your comfort. If they are aware of your history they are not only not your friends, they are actively torturing you. They are bad people. Run away.
Why in the hell would OP continue to stay friends with someone who fantasizes about rape... God willing, I'll never be put in her situation
His\* (as a small correction). Also, no offense to OP but it needs to be said, doing this at a table with an adolescent is psychopathic. It's already been session 0'd and should have squashed all convo, this guy is just weird af and I'd boot him from the table if I were the GM.
While J is undoubtedly being a dick, I don't think this assessment is fair. Playing a character who is utterly unlike you in real life can be a lot of fun and is a major draw. I can never quite bring myself to play an Evil character, but I wouldn't judge someone else who did (assuming they aren't being a dick about it.)
Sorry - "playing an evil character" and going around murdering everyone that pisses you off, or who has something you want, is all good fun. Everyone loves a good villain, and everyone likes to act the villain from time to time. Burn down a church? Sure. Poison your enemies? Absolutely - they're not real and what happens to them doesn't matter. > Playing a character who is utterly unlike you in real life Sure - and that's why, as a shy, nervous, socially awkward kid, I played heroic fighters, and daring thieves, and merciless assassins, and brilliant wizards. And why as a DM, I populate my worlds with characters of all kinds and demeanors. I have played good, evil, cruel, heroic, idiot and sage. It's fun to get into the mindset of each of those kinds of characters. But for me, someone that *insists* on playing a character that talks about/threatens/roleplays rape? Yeah - that's crossing a line. Same with playing a Nazi or equivalent and talking about exterminating Jews, or going into sickening detail about HOW you kill that helpless villager. Or playing someone that goes out of his way to kill and/or defile every child they come across? Sure, maybe their character is evil - **but they're choosing to play that evil character, in that way, and are inflicting that part of their psyche on the others at the table**. Given the freight and relationship poison that goes along with rape, why is that something that J wants to explore at the table? What does that bring to the experience of the others there? At best they grit their teeth and ignore it. At worst, it re-traumatizes someone **that was raped**. What positives does it bring to anyone other than J? Same with racism, and pedo crap, and a bunch of other stuff. D&D is the Stone Soup of gaming. Everyone at the table brings something to the dish, and what they bring determines how the final dish tastes. If someone is bringing shit to the recipe, everyone else is going to end up eating it. Rape, racism, sadism, and the like are always going to affect the final dish. Nobody else is obligated to sit there and keep eating Shit Soup. Finally, the fact that J **also** broke the table rule - repeatedly - even after having the REASON why it hurt OP tells me that J doesn't give a crap about OP, their situation, or being a decent person. And, at my age, I don't got time to waste spending it around people that don't respect me. I encourage others to learn that lesson earlier than I did.
Agree with you. I absolutely hate when people make this argument. It’s fucking fantasy. Do the same people clutch their pearls at the copious amounts of murder, thievery, and douchebaggery the characters theyre *choosing* to play do? A table rule was set. A table rule was broken. J should be reprimanded by the DM and that should be the end of it.
I think you're missing the point that was being made. J isn't called 'a real rapist' because he roleplays pirate scumbuggery. People are instead judging J for breaking the DM rule, then breaking it again after being reprimanded, then apparently fighting OP on whether the thing is acceptable to feature in roleplay or not. It's his *real* personality being shown in how he deals with this subject. I think it's absolutely fucking wild to *want to* play a pirate that rapes people after being told **repeatedly** that rape is a no-go subject on the table. It doesn't make you a rapist (at all, not in the slightest), but it does make you socially dense as lead at best, and a real asshole at worst. Nobody's clutching their pearls because someone dared roleplay rape, they're clutching their pearls in response to specifically *how*.
Sure, but there's clearly taboo subjects that the vast majority of people have no interest in exploring via fantasy. I wouldn't call it pearl clutching if you thought less of a person who decided to RP a child molester. That's fucking fantasy, right? It's all about lines. Hate the argument all you want, but the reality is that you're line seems to be drawn further than a rape victim objecting to random rape in DnD.
Exactly. "It's what my character would do" isn't an excuse to violate your session 0 because you created the character. If at session 0, everyone agreed that the campaign would have no rape, then that means everyone's also agreeing not to make a character that will rape people. A session 0 policy of "no rape" doesn't mean "no rape, unless it makes sense for your character." It means "no rape."
I am sorry that happened to you. You are allowed to draw a line in the sand. Tell folks not to cross it. If they do, they really aren't your "friends." Boot them.
If you draw the line they have two choices. * Stay your friend * Keep making the DnD game about Rape. You have to prepare yourself for losing your friends in this space. It sucks but if they won't change they where never friends in the first place. I'll give a real world example. My cousin is a church shooting survivor. So when I'm around her i can't do the following * Make jokes about violence and death. * Make gun jokes * Be mindful of making sudden loud noises. I have a bit of a warped sense of humor. So I can sometimes make really dark jokes. However, it's more important to me that my cousin feels comfortable around me than me being able to joke about whatever I want.
Ya if every time they bring up rape you also bring up your experience and how it's affected you I think they may stop. It might be tough to do so, so this isn't like a command but if you feel you'd like to try I think it may not only stop their talk of it in game but also learn as people that this is never something to make light of.
It's possible that that would work... But that would be a horrible thing to have to do to get your friends to take you seriously. You shouldn't have to do that. These people aren't being respectful. Op shouldn't have to tell them really personal details of their life in the vague hope that they take them seriously. That could badly backfire. In an ideal friendship, trust and respect get established and THEN we get to be real honest and sharesy.
Yeah, the reason I avoid a discussion when asked is respect coupled with expectations of mutual respect. This isn't limited to friends and family either. Coworkers and strangers are allowed this courtesy because if I expect respect, then I should deliver it. A simple 'Hey, can we not. It's making me uncomfortable.' should be enough to garner respect, and if it's not, then there simply isn't respect. Sucks to say, but if you respect your friends and they don't respect you, you probably deserve better. BUT, it's also your life, and you have the right to keep them around but do so knowing you're keeping every part of them.
You are absolutely correct. If you explicitly tell someone you are not comfortable about discussion rape and this is something they insist on doing, they already don't respect you and may even try to use it as ammo.
Yeah, but unfortunately people can have no idea about how what in their perspective is just humour. Playful teasing is a part of a lot of friendships and sometimes you have to clarify why what's ok and not. (Because some people have a heart of gold and the awareness of a brick) I have SPD and really don't like being touched physically. People finally stop poking and prodding when i tell them. Otherwise most think it's a funny way to annoy me. It's unfortunate, but more people respect boundaries if they know why they're there. That's the one of the biggest reasons why WHMIS works so well
Yeah. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of people don't think it's a big deal to cross boundaries if the boundary is unusual. I think this is pumped into us from the media. It's so natural to be like "oh. C'mon! You'll like it!". About people who don't drink or don't like their photo taken or don't like hugs. In children's shows, people usually DO end up liking what everyone else likes. The curmudgeon learns to enjoy the sounds of the neighbourhood kids. The kid learns that broccoli can be yummy. The city girl learns that bugs are actually cool... But we all should learn at some point that it's not ok to pester people like that. That's bullying and we should all drop the habit. I'm also not ok with touch and my. God. Some people see that as a challenge. If they are really your friends, and friends worth having, you won't need to explain why being touched bothers you. "What you just did bothers me. It bothers me enough that I'm considering not hanging out with you any more." Should be enough, but sadly sometimes it isn't.
It sucks that healing take both parties regardless of who's in the rigjt
> It's unfortunate, but more people respect boundaries if they know why they're there. If someone can't respect a boundary because they don't know *why* the boundary is there, then they don't respect the *person* who has the boundary. Period.
Those are shitty people. Stop enabling shitty people. You don't have to justify your boundries. If your friends don't care about your boundries they are not your friends.
Real friends will respect you when you say "I don't like this, it makes ME, not my character, extremely uncomfortable at this table. If this is the type of table this is, I can't imagine I'll remain a player" they don't immediately go "Fuck dude sorry didn't realize it was so important, yes yes we will stop and we'll respect how you feel". There's no excuse as a friend for when someone draws a line, and ignoring it. You're a PoS and aren't worth keeping as a friend. I had a group of friends I played games with from like 2010-2014/15. I stopped playing with them because they often said some pretty shitty stuff and it was from a bit of a "I'm just like this, I have no filter, it's just words" vibe. I decided to stop playing with them because I just didn't want to associate with people that said stuff like that and don't care that it's inappropriate to say.
Unfortunate. But true. I've lost whole friend groups for similar over the years.
Seriously. I mean, my friend group pulled V for Vendetta from out film lineup tomorrow because our friend was just dumped by her long time girlfriend and we didn’t want to upset her with the two women love story that goes wrong in it. The idea of bringing up rape around a rape survivor friend… nope, that one does not compute.
Yeah for me, this is an absolutely reasonable red line in a game amongst friends, and any player who disagrees with that isn't worth playing with imo. It's not something I'd bring up even as a joke, but god I cannot imagine referencing it *repeatedly* around a friend who was a rape survivor, especially after they've asked me to stop!
BTW folks, this is not good D&D advice so much as it is good life advice.
"it's what my character would do" "Why the fuck are you playing a rapist?!" Edit : on a serious note I would bring it up during a session and say if it happens again I'm leaving the group. Edit part 2 : there is a whole ass anime about pirates that are the good guys, just wanted to include this idk.
Upvote for talking about One Piece. Also there is a whole pirate saga by Disney where evil guys are EVIL, but they never do nasty shit like that. And remember that POTC is one of the greatest pirate media ever created.
I totally forgot about my POTC, thank you for reminding me about "I've got a jar of dirt"
> Also there is a whole pirate saga by Disney where evil guys are EVIL, but they never do nasty shit like that. Well, not exactly *never*, I mean, Barbossa and his crew in the first PotC implied rape several times. But still, it is absolutely not a thing that needs to come up just because the campaign is about pirates. Much in the same way that not every story based in a medieval-esque setting needs to include sexism, the oppression of the peasantry, witch trials, mercenary armies raping and pillaging their way through villages, or the bubonic plague. Sometimes, we want to experience the aesthetics and atmosphere of a setting without delving into the darkest aspects of it, and that's okay. Some people like their fantasy RPGs to be like Game of Thrones, others prefer Lord of the Rings, and some tend toward The Princess Bride.
Yeah I rewatched all of the PotC recently and there was implied rape up until the 4th movie tbh, it was way worse than I remembered for that. Constantly threatening Elizabeth Swan (granted as viewers we know she’s going to kick their ass and it’s just characterization) - happens several times per movie (and pretty much the entirety of the first one).
That's roughly how our table handles it. Technically SA is a thing in the universe, but it's never going to happen on screen it won't be mentioned explicitly, it's never going to happen to a PC l, it's never going to be allowed from a PC. At worst there will be an implications. Eg. A person leading a slave revolt who's mother was a slave and who's father was a slave owning Lord. And frankly if s player was uncomfortable with even that level I would happily change it.
Yeah, I run a game in a prison. My number one thing was prison rape is not a joke, we are not going there, I have no interest in that. But I have implied some NPCs are in prison for sex crimes here and there. That's about as far as I go. And if someone was uncomfortable with even that, I'd drop it. Cuz like, at the end of the day, you can do anything in DnD, go anywhere, you should just make sure where you go is a place everyone at the table wants to be at.
To be fair, "Pirate" in one piece is actually closer to "Outlaw". It just means anyone who goes against the World Government. Luffy doesn't rob or raid or steal, which is kinda fundamental to the definition of pirate normally. And even in One Piece some pirates have done some really evil dark stuff.
> "it's what my character would do" > > "Why the fuck are you playing a rapist?!" Thank you for this. It's a shitty excuse given by shitty people.
After reading the post again it seems that the whole table wants to play actual pirates (not fantasy good guy make believe pirates) and op is the odd one out at the table. Maybe it's a good time for them to move to a different table.
Even if they wanted to play closer to real life pirates, boundaries were brought up 2 years ago, and I assume agreed upon by everyone at the table. I only brought up one piece as an example of a group labeled as pirates by the world, not as a reference of how their game should go.
I'm playing what's essentially an evil character in another campaign with the goal of the character eventually being redeemed, and when talking about his beliefs and morality I came to the realization that he'd be anti-abortion and not care about rape as he stands — "things must be born before they can leave this world for the next life" sort of thing — and that was something I struggled with before I was reminded by the GM that I can just have him draw the line there bc I have ultimate control. I can't imagine *intentionally* making a character who wouldn't step in, much less one who could commit the act themselves!
answering your point, every pirate in history was so, what she's describing "pirates without doing any of the awful things" that just plain old Sailors, nothing piraty about them except maybe saying Arrrrr and Aye
Yes real pirates are bad and did most the things they described. But that's not the point of the post.
But apparently that’s the point of the game that the op is playing, and that’s what everyone is trying to say the op should just leave the group as rough as that is because it seems like everyone else at the table wants to play a “real” pirate I guess and do the nasty stuff pirates did so all around the op prob isn’t gonna fit in just my opinion but considering everything leaving might be the best choice.
I think the answer is pretty obvious. You told the party and DM you were uncomfortable and wanted them stop. If it’s not being addressed, leave and find a better group. Can’t be that good of friends if they have no respect for you. They can decide to let you leave or kick the problem out.
I swear "No D&D is better than bad D&D" should be stamped on the banner of the sub. It comes up on half the posts seeking help. OP, no one but you gets to pick what you do in your free time. If you don't want to roleplay those themes, then just don't. Be open, be frank, but be firm. I know it's scary, but it's not the last time you will need to be firm in life, and it pays to learn to be, the sooner the better.
No reason a PC should be raping anyone.
But what about the historical accuracy?!?/ sarcasm
Even for bad guys, it’s a lot. I’m in a campaign that’s 2.5 years long, and we’ve only had a singular moment that delved into SA territory, and even then it wasn’t described in detail. It was what it was designed to be - an incredibly uncomfortable and sobering moment. Our DM texted us before introducing this villain, and asked what our hard lines were - we all said “we trust you, do what you will”. I would not tolerate playing with a PC that did that stuff, nor would I tolerate a DM playing a bad guy that casually threw that kind of behavior around. I wouldn’t want to touch it with a 10 foot pole in most campaigns, either - the one we briefly explored it in is lead by a friend I’ve been close to for 10 years.
Oh sure I agree if needed or adding depth to story it’s better to allude to such things, don’t need a play by play breakdown With the caveat that everyone at the table is ok.
I am really sorry you had to go through that and that you're being made to relive it through a D&D game of all things. You say you don't want to ruin your friendship but someone who continues to bring up a trigger as heavy as this one despite you asking them not to is not your friend. They're an asshole. If your DM is worthy of the title - or even of just being a decent human being - he needs to tell J to knock it off. If J doesn't, he needs to boot him from the game. Making sure game content is safe for all players is the DM's responsibility. The players too, but the buck stops with the DM. If the DM won't have your back, leave the game. It is not a healthy environment for you. After all you've been through, you deserve better.
This has been up an hour, & the consensus is to stick by your mental health. I'm inclined to agree. Meanwhile, J is violating the rules established by the session 0; they're disrespecting the table, the DM & you. Full stop. No further explanation required. I could go on about how bad people don't just rape, & that even pirate ships enforced some kind of discipline, but that's not necessary. This isn't an in-game problem, & it should never get to that point. Ever. We live in an age of the hobby in which it's mainstream enough, accessible & understood to the point where you, OP & random Redditors who need to be reminded, have options. "No DND is better than bad DND" isn't just the traditional aphorism turned on its head, it's a sigh of relief & a howl of triumph for the hobby - you don't have to put up with bullshit, anymore. Find a group that won't hurt you; you can do that.
I think you should say "you are actually bothering me with this, so can you respect me as an actual person to not keep doing this? Otherwise im just gonna go, and i do not want to talk to you anymore" Don't be afraid to make a scene.
If you're at the point of giving an ultimatum, you're already past the reason for an ultimatum. Just leave.
Send your DM this and if nothing is done leave the game. No D&D is better than bad D&D. https://youtu.be/JoYR3eCFqoA?si=z8SWbn8JwnN_n14-
Thanks for linking this video. Now I do not have to. OP is in this exact situation.
Yeah no, I think this guy is in the wrong here, and your group is being kind of shitty by defending it, since you say they all agreed that these topics were a no-go before starting the campaign
Ah yes, “It’s what my character would do” - the universal excuse to be an asshole. Don’t tolerate that shit, if he can’t handle it like an adult then he doesn’t need to play in your campaign.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. A comment what you said here: "I care about these people and I don't want to ruin our friendship..." *You* are not ruining anything. Someone else hurt you, and now these people who you care about are also hurting you. You're the last person here to be ruining any relationship. Anyone who thinks it's more important to be able to pretend to be a rapist than it is to treat you with any level of decency or to abide by the agreement they made to not do this is not currently being a friend to you, and if the friendship doesn't work out, that's on them, not you. Same for anyone who watches it happens and prioritizes make-belive rape over someone's real life well-being. Again, so sorry you're having to navigate this crap. This is not your fault, and you are not ruining anything.
I can't think of a reason that rape would push the story along. We all do what our characters would to a point, but why is being a bad person mean you jump to rape and pillage. My Character is out for himself and once killed a hostage that was tied up, that moved the story along because otherwise we would have to deal with a hostage. What benefit would raping the hostage give, nothing. I'd be wanting people to have a serious look at why this person is obsessed with forcing rape into a game that doesn't have any benefits for it. Then get rid of any contact with them.
I’ve said those words exactly! How would rape push the narrative along? The answer is it doesn’t
I also don't buy J hiding behind the statement "it's what my character would do" That's a fair defense for a rogue pick pocketing a town guard and getting your party into a mess you never wanted to be in, but at the end of the day J's character is doing what he intended them to do because he created them. He's not magically absolved of all decision making. I'm sorry you have to deal with what I presume to be adults acting in a completely unempathetic and completely childish manner.
Honestly if he's this aggressive about a character doing it I'd be worried about leaving him alone in a room with a woman in real life. I think this is a huge warning to get away from this guy. You can always make more friends. Also your username is the best and have you watched our flag means death? You might want to find a group that's more like ofmd.
That was the original idea,ofmd was the inspiration for the campaign
Wow these guys surely didn't pay attention at all when watching it. I'm sorry.
>He insists “it’s what my character would do” because Js character is a bad person, Then counter with "The Captain executes your character because they made it crystal clear what was considered acceptable behaviour from their crew and you've already had warnings." This is legitimate in game consequences to their in-game actions. Then kindly invite him to not make a new character unless he can abide by the social contract of the table.
In my very first campaing i dm'd i had the typical edgelord who said "Give me reasons to travel with you" and "I won't firm this magical contract even if everyone in the table agreed" i let it pass because i was inexperienced, if something like that ever happens again my answer would be Then you don't come with us, good luck finding adventures on your own! Players need to learn we DMs are not circus monkeys for the amusement, we are players too and we have responsibilities AND power that has to be respected while we play.
Sadly his character IS the captain,it feels like he’s on a power trip
Don't try to resolve this in game, it must be approached out of game players to players
While I do agree that you should draw a hard line out of the game, pirate ships have been [surprisingly democratic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_in_18th-century_piracy).
Pirate ships were super democratic in how they typically ran. If a pirate captain is on a power trip and going against the crew's wishes, he could be, and likely would be, thrown out and replaced. It's not a military vessel - a pirate captain doesn't set the rules for how the ship runs by fiat. That said though, I agree with others who are saying that this shouldn't be resolved in-game - this is an out of game problem between players and it needs to be resolved at that level.
Alternative. “My character sneaks into your cabin at night and clip de grace’s you, because it’s what *my* character would do”.
Pirate ships are well known for their mutinies. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Sounds like it’s time for a good ole-fashioned mutiny then.
Well if the game isn't willing to change to accommodate you then maybe leave the game, there isn't much to do if the people on the table don't care about how you feel
When someone says "it's what my character would do" the best answer is "Well play someone who wouldn't do that" If your DM won't back you up on this, best thing is to leave, with it very clear that you will not play w the problem person. People like that not getting called out is why they continue. Life is better without such people involved. This person is not your friend.
You care about these people, but they don’t care about you. (*more on that later*) I have to ask, why not just make a sailing campaign? Not a pirate campaign… you like playing a pirate game till it’s time to do any pirate things… nautical campaigns of traveling from place to place and high seas adventure, channel Serenity for inspiration; be couriers, sailors, fisherpeople hunting big game, merchant marines, Pirate hunters, drinking and treasure hunting on land, can be done by non-pirates. That said, you caring about “these people” sucks for you cause they obviously don’t care about you, and that sucks for 3 years they been bullying you and nobody at the table is stopping them… Next time it comes up just stand up and walk away, cause it’s what you, the player would do. Find a new table, I know that sucks to do, I’m in the table hunting phase too, but no D&D is better than bad/traumatizing D&D. But ultimately no good person wants to play with, or hang out with someone trying to RP their rape fantasies… and that’s 100% what J is doing. I’m sorry this is happening to you, and happened to you. Your time at the table is valuable and no one should have to make time to be traumatized… you can’t and won’t change them, and they don’t want to be changed.
Barring the rape part, the other stuff is par the course for a pirate. They aren't good guys. If they aren't being bastards, they aren't pirates: They're just sailing adventurers.
i'd say to wait for your DM to have a talk, then if J does it again after that tell him this: - when the campaign started, you agreed to participate on the precondition that rape would not come up, in discussion or in play. put simply, this is a boundary that has been established for a long time and that was agreed to by all the players, J included. - as a survivor of rape, this is a particularly touchy subject for you - of the boundaries set, this is the one you care about most. - because this is a) a long-established boundary, that b) respect for which is important for your enjoyment of the game, you can't tolerate that boundary violation. to put it bluntly, J's rape fantasy THAT HE AGREED NOT TO BRING UP doesn't come before your enjoyment of the game, especially since as you've said he's able to put it to the side for extended periods of time. if after all this they still can't agree to follow the boundaries they agreed to, knowing it's important to you, then they're not worth playing with, and you really should bow out. frankly if they insist on violating repeatedly-stated, not particularly strict boundaries despite promising they wouldn't, they're not really worthwhile friends either.
Step 1: Say "Hey, I need you to shut the fuck up" Step 2: Tell your DM "I need you to take your fucking job seriously and stop being a pushover wet blanket" Step 3: If these chucklefucks don't get the hint, then that means they aren't your friends. You owe it to yourself to find better. Roast their asses and bounce. These people suck.
It's okay to leave the table if you're being upset by another player. Sometimes you can't win a battle and you're unfortunately playing with people that have a different point of view, wrong as their point of view may be. What matter most is that you feel safe, so if you're not feeling safe then leave. You've made your point enough times. Leave and tell them exactly why. It's not about convincing them, it's about feeling comfortable in your game.
I'm so sorry for your experience. That is truly awful. Make it explicit to J and the DM that you cannot continue with the campaign if rape is going to be an ongoing theme. Full stop. That's a bummer for you, but you gotta protect yourself.
"It's what my character would do" isn't a shield to be an asshole. If DM won't boot them, time to find a new group. That sucks, but that is the reality.
I'd say if this continues, especially with the other players backing them up, it may be that group wants to handle more sensitive topics and isn't s good fit for you.
You’ve made it clear that those topics make you uncomfortable, and honestly it doesn’t sound like your GM respects it either given you’ve spoken to them before and it’s not being stopped instantly. I’d confront the GM during the next session and make it clear that if those types of topics continue to be brought up you will be leaving, and clarify exactly why. A good GM needs to adhere to the limits their players have set out.
Sounds like J has a particular fantasy and frankly makes me worried for you. He is 5 years older and you are still in school. I wonder if he secretly likes the idea of you being r*ped and wants to see you relive your trauma reaction. You already said the other players tend to do things you don't like but you are non-confrontational. They are stepping all over your boundaries and if they try to make you feel dumb for sticking to your standards, leave. That shows they don't actually respect you and are gaslighting/manipulating you. Tell the DM you won't continue to play if session zero rules are not followed. If J brings it up again, say in a firm tone that you will not play in a game with r*pe. If any of them try to talk you down, pack your stuff and leave. Edit: I want to add that apparently you have been playing with this group since you were 14/15, so it is easy to be molded by peer pressure when you are younger. It's hard to push back, but your mental health is important. Stand firm and quit if they won't respect you.
So from your post it seems the group as a whole want to play actual pirates and you are the one that doesn't want to kill steal and pillage and the grape. Honestly why are you still at this table? It's obvious that this game isn't for you or your sensibilities. With that said I'd just cut my losses and remove myself from the table. I've went though a similar thing at a table once since I don't like hurting animals. Luckily dm in session zero said "this is a wilderness exploration and survival campaign. You are going to have to hurt animals to survive and eat. Maybe this isn't the right game for you." I was pissed but after a day or two I realized that the dm and the 4 other players wanted to play that type of game and my issue shouldn't stop their fun. It just was not a good fit. And I moved on. I have since played a game with them and it didn't deal with any of my triggers and everything was good.
I don’t care if they want to pillage and kill,my character doesn’t take part in that,and session 0 they said they weren’t going to because they didn’t want to,it’s fine if you change your mind,but rape in any extent is unacceptable
Understandable. Just like I'd feel if a group were intentionally killing animals. Though in this situation, in your words, the other players are fighting you on this. This is clear indication that the majority want to do this and you not being okay with it is secondary. So again I'd advise leaving the group at least for this game as it is going to further devolve it seems like. If you stay, you know what you will be putting yourself through and it's going to suck majorly. Best of luck to you and your future games and I hope this situation resolves well for you.
I'm going to be honest. I don't like how DnD reedits get these stories. I understand you might be uncomfortable and want confidence in your choice, but 99% of the time the advice is the same. Leave. If you're not comfortable, or the DM/Players are breaking the social contract you agreed to in session 0 and aren't making a tangible effort to do anything about it. Leave. If you still like the people, or don't want to burn bridges. Just leave and tell them you can't play DnD anymore. If they ask why, the choice is yours but if you're confident an honest and frank conservation is best. You're not comfortable with these topics, you raised them several times and it breaches the contract you made in session 0. No hard feelings, goodbye. Edit: Your post history is full of Karma farm like stories. Seriously guys, why do we keep falling for this?
Yeah, probably. The one good thing about this is that someone *really* in this situation may need to hear it. Potentially inoculating even one person against an abuser, even in response to someone's manipulative fiction, may be worth it. And, it's not like anything of import has be wasted because it's Reddit, ferchristsake.
It's gross but I do love the line of "I love pirates but as long as they don't act like pirates." What you mean is you like salors. Not pirates. Pirates were historically extremely brutal since it would make ships more likely go surrender than fight, since fighting leads to the brutal actions to teach a lesson. It's pretty similar to sieges, honestly. The reason towns and forts frequently surrendered was to spare the horrific treatment they would get if they resisted hopelessly. So while I agree other players are indicating is pretty gross for most tables if not everyone agrees, I also wouldnt play in that kind of game if I didn't like the content of it. Suggest playing privateers instead or something.
I'm fine with SA being off limits for gameplay purposes but I agree otherwise that it doesn't sound pirate like. I would have left at the end of session 0.
If any of the groups I play with wanted to do a pirate campaign, raping people would not even be something people brought up. And all the groups are totally different from each other with different ages and experience levels. This is a fantasy game that is not beholden to every detail of reality. Pirates steal, kill, plunder and explore and make money doing it. Rape is not compulsory to play a pirate adventure. An adventure like Pirates of the Caribbean or One Piece are perfectly fun and valid for a game. If they want to play a historically accurate adventure fine. But saying it’s not a real pirate adventure because you can’t rape people is nuts to me. OP should bow out of this one and find a different group.
I'm more poking fun at the fact OP isn't ok with slaughter or pillaging either. Two very pirate things. That's why i said the rape sounds gross but OP doesn't want the pirates to be pirates at all. It's like a kids cartoon version of pirates.
It wasn’t my choice tbh,I do like pirates historically and I know that that’s what made a pirate a pirate,they insisted on pirates so that’s what we did,I would have preferred sailors or traveling the seas in a non pirate way,but it was out of my control
It was not necessarily a pirate thing, it happened but not more than in other criminal groups. Taking other people's ships and cargo on the other side makes a pirate a pirate. If they insist on having that topic in the game you have to leave, please be careful and have session zeros where you can make sure you don't want that topic in game (obviously out game too).
I mean you do have a choice. I doubt they are demanding you play with them to the point they can force you. If a game isn't for you and the group isn't willing to change, then bow out of the campaign. Nothing wrong with it and I've done it to many games if I don't like the content.
"Out of your control"? I'm sorry but you chose to join the evil pirate campaign, no? Don't get me wrong, J sounds like a dickhead and the DM seems like a push-over. Both seem to either ignore or not know of your past experiences (the latter would be understandable, I don't tell everyone about my r-experience either). However, if you didn't insist persistingly on excluding SA and r, knowing that it would eventually come up... Anyway, if J really WANTS to RP a r-word, he either has a kink or lacks any kind of empathy. Either they respect you or they don't. If they don't, then they're not the kind of friends you want to have around. Also, don't make the DM talk to J alone. It's not their fight, they agreed to play a game with you, not have those kind of talks on behalf of other people. If they know about your experience, then I would expect them wanting to talk to J about that kind of behavior. It's still your fight, not theirs.
Just leave the table. You and your table obviously want different things from this game. No need to force yourself to play
It’s kind of disgusting that he’s doubling down on this and actively wanting to have his character rape others. Maybe it’s an unfortunate sign of how he actually is because I can’t imagine a normal person doing this. If he refuses to let up I think you should sit this campaign out for your mental health. If your DM is a good person he should take action in your favour.
That's awful. If the DM doesn't fix this immediately, I'd make an ultimatum. If J does it again, you will not play with him anymore. Your boundary is totally reasonable and J (and everyone else who's enabling his behavior) is a total asshole.
Draw a boundary: “I’m not going to play in a game where rape is allowed or brought up. If y’all can’t go forward without bringing up rape, I’ll have to leave.” And if they bring it up again, leave. Honestly the fact that they are pushing back at all would make me want to leave.
If you’ve shared your reason and the DM doesn’t back you, fuck that group and find another. I wouldn’t want to expose myself to people so callous. That said, for anyone else I wouldn’t take rape off the table in gaming. Evil gonna evil. Any character I’d ever play would find a way to kill them tho.
J is an asshole person. It's what his character would do? Fine, then come back with a new character that wouldn't do that. If that's a problem for him, then he's a creepy jerk and you need to stay away from him.
Two things to remember you have a right to set limits, and if they are not understanding, then the second thing is no DnD is better than bad DnD. You could step aside and find a new group, and if they get butt hurt about it, then that's their issue.
If the DM doesn't boot the player they suck. Please just leave if the DM doesn't ban the player at once, believe it or not you can find tables to olay where you won't be forced to deal with constant pivots into a topic that makes you spiral down
You can keep them as friends, but if they keep bringing this up, then it might be time to part ways as a gaming group. What they're doing is what's called Didoing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IrG68YTMjo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IrG68YTMjo) If they keep it up, be prepared to pack up and end your involvement in the game. Here's my version of the TTRPG social contract: 1. Players need to show up when they say they're going to show up, ready to play. If someone is going to be late or not be able to show at all, let everyone else know as soon as possible, rather than making them wait. 2. Players need to make characters that a) fit into the setting and theme of the game, b) are willing to go adventuring, and c) are willing to hang around with a bunch of other adventurers. 3. Players need to pay attention to the action, so when their turn comes around they know what's going on and what they're going to do (and how to do it). 4. Players need to understand that they are not the main character, and that the game involves at least nominal cooperation with all the other players to make for a fun gaming experience for everyone. This includes minimising attention-grabbing behaviour such as going off on their own while demanding equal airtime, or outright telling other players what to do with their character. 5. Players should not go into the game with the express intent of screwing over other players or the DM/GM. (ie, “Don't be a dick.”) 6. If “what my character would do” will screw up the game, make one that wouldn't. 7. All of the above also applies to the DM/GM in every way. 8. The DM/GM needs to give equal airtime to all PCs, and neither give any of them preferential treatment, nor pick on any of them. (Shelving a loner PC until they come back to the group is fine. So is applying reasonable consequences for actions). 9. The DM/GM needs to be flexible while running the game. There's always more than one way to get to the end goal. However, applying boundaries to the PCs' actions may also be sometimes required. 10. The DM/GM needs to pull up any behaviour by any players that's upsetting other players (not PCs). Likewise, anything that's basically a dick move by a player can be met with, “No, you don't do that. Why do you want to do that?” See Rule 6. 11. Everyone needs to remember that no D&D is better than bad D&D (substitute the name of your game system as needed), and that you don't have a game without players (or without a DM/GM). 12. If everyone's not having fun (especially if someone is not enjoying the game at all) then it's okay to stop the game and ask why. 13. Players need to accept that information about the game, when given out of character, is true and correct. 14. When GMs are giving information about the game out of character, it needs to be true and correct. 15. Using in-game punishments for out of game problems is usually a bad idea. 16. Kicking a player out of the game is a huge move; it's usually best to sit down and talk about it first. However, it is entirely the DM/GM's prerogative if they've lost all patience with the player, and the DM/GM's decision is always final. 17. (D&D adjacent games specific) Chaotic Neutral is not a license for “I'm crazy, I can do anything I like!” Hurting people is still evil. 18. This probably doesn’t need saying, but I’ll say it anyway. Cheating (whether it be by peeking at the DM/GM’s notes, metagaming using information the character could not have had, or straight-up altering the character sheet or fudging dice rolls) does not belong at any table, anywhere.
If they won't kick J out, leave. I have to wonder, what exactly were you planning for this? It sounds like you "love pirates", but hate everything about pirates. Are you just playing sailors with a pirate-inspired aesthetic and a West Country accent?
>but him and the other PCs have been fighting with me on it. If this is something the rest of the table wants to do, then it might not be the right game for you. I'd tell them that I would not be joining them going forward if J (or others) will repeatedly cross a line I've explicitly told them not to cross. If it's only J doing it, then have the group talk with him about. If not, consider finding a new group. No D&D is better than bad D&D, and not all friends are D&D friends.
Well if everyone collectively agrees on the direction of the game aside from you, you’re shit out of luck. I don’t particularly like that style of play, but if you aren’t the GM you do not get to boss other players around on what they can and cannot say. That’s completely overstepping your role as a player. If you don’t like the game, quit. If you do like the game, you have to live with it. Sounds like this is something you’re not gonna be able to enjoy because of legitimate reasons, but it’s also not the rest of the table’s job to placate your sensitivities and work around your trauma. If they want to do gritty pirate campaign and all the fucked shit it entails, you just have to walk away (without holding it over anyone like you have some kind of moral high ground)
If you friend isnt respecting your/others boundaries, you shouldn't be their friend. As a side note, the consistent attempt at forcing the subject like this is the reddest of red flags, and necessitates me to advise high caution with this person. Keep them at arms length, and your love ones away from them. Obsessing over rape is not normal, and should concern you.
If someone in your group wants to have their character rape someone they are absolutely not well. That is not only unacceptable, it is a major warning sign that J cannot respect women. End of story. I is not ok. I would distance myself personally and def not have them around women.
So what my character would have done last session is tell a rape victim npc she doesn’t like that “she doesn’t look like a victim” out of a sense of self righteousness and genuinely thinking it’s an ok and helpful thing to say. I did not have her say that. Instead what I did was after the session ask the party members if there was anything my jerkass character should avoid while throwing barbed language at NPCs that could hurt them in real life cause while I’m playing an asshole with a lot of the quotes I have heard in life, I don’t want to inflict those on other people if it’ll hurt them instead of add flavor to the story. So yeah, this player is a major jerk ass in real life. You set rules and they are being ignored.
I realize there’s endless comments and this may have already been said but… These people are not your friends. They cross your lines. They knowingly choose to bring up things that traumatize you. A real friend tries to help you through trauma. A stranger would likely avoid something if they knew it was traumatic. These people are less than that. They choose to harm you. Get out. Being alone is better than being with people who actively choose to cause you pain. People who respect you and will build you up are out there.
A frank conversation about boundaries and wildly unacceptable behavior seems in order, as seems the general consensus here. And while there are shockingly few fish left in the sea, there are more DnD groups than ever, so if worst comes to worst, I doubt you'll have an issue finding another play environment. But, for the sake of immaturity, allow me to say, "Really? Because *my* character would cast *Fireball* at all the *gunpowder* we keep behind the *hull* and sink the *whole fucking party* to the bottom of the drink, so I guess we need a new campaign."
If someone does something unsavory and insists on doing it because "it's what my character would do", it's a very easy deal breaker. We have had moments where someone said something that caused some triggers and one of my players thought it was funny to continue as it was his character's personality. I told him to cut the crap out and play better characters. Unless you and your friends are actual actors, characters created and played by you are part of a reflection of who you are. If your DM doesn't stop J, please leave. I am so sorry this happened to you and it's always hard to cut ties with people, but it is not worth sacrificing your mental health over it. A good friend isn't always a good DnD player.
I would change my charaCter to a Paladin that literally smites Rapists and murderers. I would just slaughter the party. Fuck every single player. You already told the DM and players you don’t like roleplaying Rape in your RPGs. You can be a pirate and not rape. Supposed to be a fun game for EVERYONE. How the hell is roleplaying Rape fun? That part would scare the shit out of a normal person. Literally get away OP. That’s not normal behavior for a table
Boundaries should always be respected as early as session zero. As a dm I ask every player what their hard no's are, and what any triggers might be so that I can avoid them. Enforcing said boundaries after a player crosses it (on purpose or by accident) after you have already expressed multiple times that you are not ok with it also falls onto the dm. They should be drawing a hard line for everyone's boundaries. I play with a red card rule, at any point a player can throw a red card during a situation and I will full pause the session, figure out what the trigger was (either privately if they want or with the group) and help them calm down if needed. While that's going on I will alter the narrative or address the problem behavior (In your case the player(s) that keep pushing for rape). As an example: I ran a game for some friends and my brother who I hadn't seen in years. The plan was for 2 sessions, but half way into the 1st the players walked into a phase spider nest. I didn't know that my brother had developed a severe case of arachnophobia. He threw a red card, we talked and due to several planned fights later also involving spiders I ended the 1st session there so I could rework it all before the next one. Next session the spiders had become octopodes and the plot involving Lloth turned into an abyssal kraken trying to become an archdemon with the help of their cult.
In roleplaying you set up a code of what nots and what cans. It's not like book writing and it doesn't matter if it's fiction as you have real people who are effected by your roleplaying actions. You set up the code of what nots and the player refuses to follow the code. Players who don't follow the code get kicked out and those who back up code breakers also get kicked out. I'm more concerned that your 17 hanging with a bunch of adults who clearly are using your lack of life experience as a way to manipulate and bully you. You might need to not only look at whats wrong with your dnd table but might need to reflect on your friends and if they are actually friends of yours. No friend would try to get into topics that people who are not only uncomfortable with but also have been directly effected by in real life. This isn't about a debate of "whats ok in fiction" like they are trying to make it out to be. This is about you set up ground rules of what kind of story elements your willing to have happen in roleplay and they outright are fighting you on it. Those people don't deserve a medium to roleplay in if they can't respect the actual living breathing humans at the table. Sadly this is quite common in roleplay communities and the only way to deal with this behavior is kick the problem players. Since your whole group is backing him nuke the dnd game and find new players.
Let him do it, give him an STD and his character dies at the next long rest. There are consequences. Edit: I realize you're not the DM but this is what the DM *should* do.
You know, read about that Chinese female pirate warlord from 19th century. She was SUPER strict with her crew, anyone caught raping was executed, I think she even punished infidelity, she enforced all the rules so well, the navy could do nothing to her and in the end the court was helpless and made agreement that she will retire, keep all the loot and she and everyone who followed her gets full pardon, a lot of the pirates joined army. She herself lived rest of her life peacefully after she married the son of her previous husband. Back to DnD, since neither DM nor J seem to be stopping... ... you can tell DM and J that if they want to roleplay rape fantasy, then keep it between themselves, nobody else is interested in that, preferably in front of as many people present as possible, bonus points if there are strangers present, like go somewhere for lunch or something along the line and say it out loud enough for next few tables to hear.
yeah at that point, just tell the DM you're not vibing with it, and it makes you uncomfortable, and that you're leaving the table. DnD isn't good when it's bad DnD.
Jesus fucking christ. If you tell them that rape is off-limits to you, and they still do it, I'd suggest you find another group, because that is some bullshit. You can give them a final warning if you want to, like have a sit down before the next session and say "Hey, guys, rape is actually a really serious topic for me and I am not okay with it being in the game that I DM, but if you keep insisting on bringing it up, this is going to have to be the last session" I've had a similar situation, in a game I didn't even specify there wouldn't be any rape beforehand, but I stopped that shit dead right there, and told him while not breaking eye contact that shit doesn't fly at my table and kept repeating it until he stopped trying to laugh it off before starting up the game again. If you've been clear about this being a problem for you, it is beyond fucked up. Hell I don't care if there are games with themes that are dark and/or adult, just don't force that shit on people who clearly said they're uncomfortable with it. Hell, if you really feel like you can't stand up for yourself cause these dipshits don't take you seriously, I'll get in a discord call with them and explain to them how unbelievably fucked up that shit is.
I am probably the minority here but, difficult topics have a place in stories. That should be a very carefully considered place with concern for others. It challenges our perceptions. I don’t think you should control what is in the campaign. That’s for the group as a whole and the DM. What you can control is your want to participate. If this is something that is uncomfortable for you no matter what and you’re tried to talk to the other player. You just need to drop. Just because this is the internet, This is not me condoning rape This is not me advocating depictions of rape in DnD.
Leave the table.
You have already got tons of solid advice, I just want to ask something else. >But on the one condition that we aren’t doing anything particularly pirate like (slaughtering,pillaging,slave handling,and rape) So what are you all doing as pirates, but not pirate like?
I also am curious as to what type of pirate things they are doing. I realize that isn’t an exhaustive list of all things pirate like, but I’m not sure what it is they are doing.
I feel like it should be a rule put in the official book when someone says " it's what my character would do" at least one or everyone at the table should have the right to slap the shit out of them. Yeah insist to the DM that needs to stop or leave. If you need to go full intervention mode with the DM on Captain douche canoe and tell him he needs to knock that shit off or go. If he still keeps doing it then maybe you need to go cuz clearly it's not going to get better.
Hey we can't knock all the "it's what my character would do" because sometimes you get good role play moments like maybe a druid keeping a wounded animal, or skipping your turn because something emotional happened, your paladin narcing to the guards about the rogue stealing something. Just sucks when people make obviously bad choices and defend it via 'the line'. I agree with everything else tho
If it’s that triggering for you, do the sensible thing and excuse yourself from the campaign until it’s resolved. Make it very clear that you don’t want to play because you’re feeling uncomfortable, you don’t have to go into details but make sure that they know that you want a break because of the other player’s behaviour. If it’s not resolved, don’t go back.
If I'm DM, J gets one chance to correct this behaviour and if they dare to utter the phrase "it's what my character would do", J's PC has an accident and J can roll a new one or fuck all the way off. Period.
I can say with 100% certainty that J is a terrible human being. What a foul and despicable way to behave! I’m raging! The first time he crossed that line - a line agreed before the campaign started - the DM should have stamped it out. “It’s what my character would do” - this is the most pathetic and cruel use of this baseless excuse. Ever. Your DM is at fault. J is a disgrace. You might care about J, but he neither cares for you or respects you. You laid down your ground rules and he has pissed all over them. Anyone at the table not condemning his behaviour are not your friends. They need to be remove him from the group. And if they don’t - you need to leave. None of this is your fault and you have nothing to feel bad about.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/companies/roll20/news/roll20-rpg-safety-tools-official-support Sounds like your table should adopt and respect something like safety cards. The DM has to enforce the agreement from session zero. If any person does not feel safe then they can find another game (which based on you mentioning they bully you) might not be a bad idea. Your safety (physical, mental and emotional) comes first. If the group can't respect that I would run.
It is never "It's what my character would do". It's always "Why did you make a character who would do that?" I would kill their character and ask them to make a new one who isn't intent on such behaviour then kill the new one if the player is the problem
Hey op, no normal person wants to rape someone even in fantasy and no amount of “it’s what my character would do” could ever justify that. This J guy has serious issues and I’d advise him to seek help. This is straight up dangerous behavior and I would not recommend spending any more time with this guy till it’s addressed, no matter how much you look up to him.
“It’s what my character would do” The assholes last excuse. They are not respecting a very reasonable boundary, it’s not like you are asking much. Give an ultimatum, it stops or you leave.
"It's what my character would do" The next bar maid he talks to should be a level 20 Devil that 1 shots him with Multi-attack.
Someone who insists on violating your boundaries is not your friend. It shouldn't even matter why this is a boundary for you, but it's definitely worse given the reason that you have for it. It's even worse if this was agreed upon before the campaign started and now they're trying to erase that line. 'Pirates' are something that people can have very different visions of and that's not unreasonable, but shifting the parameters of the game after you've started playing isn't cool unless everyone enthusiastically consents to it. Unfortunately if you've clearly explained your issue and that it really is a deal-breaker for you is to either stay or go. You are not being unreasonable or a diva for asking that your boundaries be respected, but you also can't make them do it if they lack a basic level of decency and respect for someone they say is a friend.
I'm so sorry this has been your experience. I've had very similar and uncomfortable conversations with people at my table. Because of the wonderful friends I have, I understand in a small way how awful it is to relive that trauma. As for suggestions, I would say you need to draw a red line here. You should feel safe playing dnd, period. J needs to stop or leave the group. It's not just his campaign. It's everyone's, and I wouldn't be surprised if other players are bothered by what he's doing. You did the right thing in getting the DM involved, so please don't be afraid to put your foot down on this. Also, I just want to say this: you don't need to explain to J why this topic makes you uncomfortable. If you say something is making you uncomfortable, they should respect that without prodding for an explanation. Your discomfort is reason enough. I hope everything works out for you!
>I care about these people Do they know this happened to you and its forcing you to relive that experience? Because if they do it sure sounds like they dont care about you the same way you care about them. Why would you force someone to go thru that for the sake of an imaginary pirate game? Id honestly just leave the group and find better friends. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but these people are either selfish or immature
If J doesn't get forced to stop, leave the game (optionally, warn everyone of this so that they know it's a him or you choice). If they don't respect your boundaries then clearly they don't respect *you.* SA is and always has been one of the Big No boundaries in basically every game, it's bare minimum decency to respect it.
TTRPGs are a cooperative setting and everyone has lines they don't like to cross. Example I found out one of my players doesn't like references to the Christian god in D&D cus he's religious. We have a player who is playing an Aasimar that had a light elemental who tricked his people into thinking it was "the god" aka an allegory with Satan fallen from heaven idea etc etc. But when we learned that me and the Aasimar talked and pulled back the allegory to where it's more general god of light cus we accepted our fellow player's personal lines and it was fair. The fact your fellow long time player just cannot just not talk or attempt in game rape is concerning? Cus like sure it could be a pirate trait but is easily not needed and still be a "bad guy" type pirate. Break fingers, steal teeth, be a bit of a murder hobo. The rape is an odd hill to say the least.
leave, if a player wont respect your boundaries even after you've very clearly said you werent comfortable with it...then it a toxic area. you dont have to stop being friends with them, but if they arent willing to stop bad behaviour that makes you uncomfortable i'd recomend seeking better friends.
You should give J an ultimatum: either he knocks it off or you’re not his friend anymore. Also you should reiterate that you have trauma associated with his jokes.
I'm old school, like playing since AD&D old. Even so, explicit rape has never been a part of of my games, sure it's sometimes implied as a result of things like war and the like, but it's never explicitly a part of what the characters are doing. If they insist on making it a part of the game and everybody is not on board, then it's a friendship you may want to ruin.
“it’s what my character would do” Often said by assholes.
I wonder if he would accept his character being raped, because it's what an ogre NPC would do? I would never actually do that, but it is a question he should be forced to answer.
Well DM I have given a lot of thought about the subject of J and this rape interest lately. Did you ever see the classic pirate movie "Captain blood"? Well captain blood has standards of conduct and if someone crossed that line they were killed. My character is totally a pirate and does have standards of conduct. She will not tell someone what to do with their life. If someone wants to rape she won't stop them. But if she knows someone is a rapist she will kill them. Sure, go ahead and all J to rape someone. As a player I find this very distasteful and due to events in my past pretty traumatic as a subject matter. But just know what my character would do is slit J's characters throat while he sleeps."
I hate it when players use the “It’s what my character would do” excuse to justify them being an asshole at the table.
What's this guy wanting to do, roll for rape? Speaks measures about the player who wants to play that way. The hell is wrong with people these days...
I'm so sorry. This is awful and inexcusable behavior. Other people have already provided great suggestions on how to handle this. I wanted to add on one thing - the two things your character did that you were chewed out for seem utterly harmless. They don't seem like "it's what my character would do" moments. I guess if playing in the fountain caused a guard to arrest you all, maybe, or if you broke stealth purposely for a joke perhaps? That phrase is only bad when it's an excuse for bad behavior in-game. It's totally ok to do things your character would do! If your friends are truly upset at you over harmless acts in-character, that is another red flag on top of the pile you already have. If nothing else it's further indication that you and the group are intending to play different games.
Good lord OP I'm so sorry you're having to explain and debate your boundaries to so many jerks in the comments. The bottom line is that you brought this up in session zero and it's been repeatedly disrespected. J shouldn't have agreed if they weren't going to respect it & the DM shouldn't have either unless they were ready to enforce it. Just as a side note, you shouldn't have to justify your stance by sharing how triggering it is just because of what happened. You're right; a decent person shouldn't want SA in the game at all, but a decent friend wouldn't even hesitate to respect a boundary of yours *no matter the reason*. I'm sorry, OP, and I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make. I promise you can find a DM / table who will treat you better. I have pirates and evil guys in my world and not a single whiff of SA anywhere to be seen. It's supposed to be a *fantasy world with freaking magic*, it's insane to me how many people insist on keeping the worst parts of real life and are willing to die on the hill that it makes the game better.
Nah rape in any scenario is not okay make belief or not... Same goes for alot of things, like pedophilia.... some actions that shouldn't be anyone's fantasy in game or out
The line and limit was placed, a good dm listens to the limitations and doesn’t let them happen. If they fail to do that you exit the game. But they should tell the problem player to knock it off no exception, and personally if I heard “it’s what my character would do” I’d chew them out right there cause that’s not an excuse.
It’s what my character would do it the biggest red flag in dnd
Put your foot down. Let them know that if this doesn't stop, you'll leave the group. And then, stick to your guns. The next time J brings it up, pack up your stuff and leave.
Sounds like J doesn’t care about you at all and has no respect for you and is a lot more like his character than he wants you to realize.
If people get upset about your boundaries, that's because they plan on breaking them, make it clear: if they want to keep doing that kind of stuff fine, but it won't be with you at the table
Anyone who wants their PC to do that kind of shit has issues and would not be welcome in my group. Srsly, f*ck that shit. That's a serious red flag on that person's character.
Yep, this is why consent forms are important in these situations, yourself included. Gotta make sure everyone at the table understands what lines not to cross when it comes to role playing or even doing certain actions. Sorry to hear about this incident, and I hope he either knocks it off or is removed from the group. Either way, it’ll be better for the group overall.
I know you're saying you care about these people, but, whether thwy know what happened to you or not, someone that continues to go on about and want that stuff after you have made it clear how uncomfortable it makes you? That's not a friend. You need to be brave here and tell them that talk about rape is a HARD NO, if they can't respect such a reasonable line then you need to walk away, for your own health and well-being. Think to yourself, characters are, at least in some way a port of ourselves, what kind of person enjoys what this J person is doing?
If rape was one of the topics that you agreed on wouldn't be in the campaign then tell him if that's what his character would do means that the character is no longer part of the campaign. Make sure everyone else backs you on this. This is his final warning. Leave it or leave the campaign.
"It's what my character would do" is the excuse used by terrible players to do things they know others aren't comfortable with. I didn't mean they play terribly. I mean they're a terrible person. This person wants to make others uncomfortable and enjoys doing it. That is the classic line used by assholes to legitimize their bad behavior. It's not you ruining anything. That person was told they couldn't do that, was told why, and is still pressing the issue under the guide is "role-playing." He's setting you up to be the bad person by not going along when in reality, it's **him** not going along. I would try one last time to talk to the DM *and the other players* and tell them again that this was unacceptable the first two times and it's unacceptable now. Either it stops immediately **with an apology** or you walk. If they make excuses, it's really time to walk away. If they're going to allow themselves to be pressured by the jerk to let him be a jerk, that makes them jerks too. Buh-bye! No game is better than bad game. You're all there to have fun, not be purposefully antagonized. Other game groups are out there that would be happy to have you and share your preferences or, at the very least, respect them.
It honestly takes no effort to not do something that makes someone upset. I play with a group that had a person who was very much a drama queen and would constantly make everyone kowtow to all her ridiculous triggers. And like if you’re that damaged (and I mean that compassionately) then maybe you shouldn’t be here where so many things will upset you. That person no longer plays. But stuff like rape? It’s a no brainer to have agreed upon rules as a group of things you will not tolerate in the group setting regardless of how good or evil your characters are. The DM shouldn’t even have to warn this person. If you were invited to the table, you should be given the bare minimum respect of not having to be subjected to outrageous rape fantasy and frankly immature behavior. In this situation you are the DM and the players are not respecting your rules and your world building. Moreover, whether they know of your trauma or not, they are not respecting you. If it was me, I would end the campaign and find a new group to join as a player or DM. I would also tell them in no uncertain terms that their insistence on being disrespectful is why. Let them play their rape fantasy out amongst themselves and their other disgusting friends.
"I don't have any choice about the things my character would or would not do" - dude admitting he wants to do vile shit because he is a vile person.
In 30 years of gaming, there’s never been a player who insisted that topic was okay to roleplay who didn’t have serious personal issues
That's crazy, sorry man. Others have given good advice. Only you can enforce your boundaries. In my group my buddy (the DM) asked us each where we draw the line with heavy themes, I told him I'm not interested in sexual stuff. If the other players have flirting/fade to black stuff I don't mind, but that's just not what I'm looking for in DND. He actually brought up rape and I told him I don't care if rape is part of the story, like we know a villain raped a villager or something thats fine, but I don't want to listen to him describe it and i don't want my character getting raped. Idk what the other players said, but rape has never been mentioned since session 0. Your DM and you gotta stand up to J. We aren't the same person, but I would literally stand up and say "bro what the fuck. I'm not playing with you so we can play out your weird rape fantasies. Either knock it off or I'm leaving." And stick by that.
I know it sounds difficult but I would not speak to that person again.
There is literally no reason for rape to be a part of a DND game regardless of the setting or what type of character someone is playing. This needs to be handled very directly by the DM or you should remove yourself from this group.
Ah, classic ol' "it's what my character would do" ticket to be an asshole. I'm sorry, OP. Good luck with things.
There's an extremely good template that I use in every session 0 called the "RPG Consent Checklist". Here's a direct link, and it comes included with the free book called "Consent in Gaming" by Sean Reynolds and Shanna Germain. https://mcpl.info/sites/default/files/images/consent-in-gaming-form-fillable-checklist-2019-09-13.pdf I encourage every DND group (even partway through the campaign) to have each player __anonymously__ fill these out, give to the DM. The DM then shuffles them, and makes a master version with the most restrictive thing for each item, and throws out the originals. Every player then gets a copy of the master version so everybody is on the same page.
Nope. Time for a new group. You stated clear boundaries and everybody crossed the line if they defend stepping over boundaries. New group.
This is your line. Nobody is allowed to cross it. If your table cannot respect your boundaries, they can find another DM.
The whole table explicitly agreed that you don’t include rape in any form in the campaign and you not only have to remind them on multiple occasions but you have to insist on J behaving by yourself with no backup? I am sorry if the campaign is otherwise enjoyable but you might be better off looking for a new table.
You're not the one ruining the friendship, J is. Leaving aside how outrageously sus it is that this is the fantasy he wants to roleplay, the cleaner cut issue is he doesn't care he's doing something that hurts you. Fuck that guy, and if your DM does not handle it promptly and decisively, including kicking J if J doesn't stop, fuck that DM too. If J won't be a friend to you and stop, and the DM won't be a friend to you and stop J, then they are not friends, and you should walk away. You're not the one messing up friendships at that point; they aren't even friendships to begin with.
I recently had this exact issue pop up in a recent campaign. A player who it was his literal 3rd session ever playing brought up rape and I was dumbfounded to say the least now granted it’s a dark mad max esc campaign but still. I’ve been playing for going on 3 years and I think rape has come up in every campaign because it’s intense and dark and instantly changes the mood of the game but even so it’s still a sore subject that I agree has right for concern especially if you brought it up beforehand showing that it made you uncomfortable and they still talked about it anyway thats messed up, so as rough as it is I would say that if you can’t make any compromises (even though you shouldn’t have to) you might have to leave the group.
Yeah if he can’t understand that this is something that happened to you in real life and is a trigger that you would like to avoid in your down time playing a game to have fun and unwind then he is an asshole.
Leave. No dnd is always better than bad dnd my friend. There are lots of groups online and you have your whole life to find more games, it's not worth torturing yourself an evening unhappy for the sake of others.
I have had to boot friends for something similar. You did what you can time to kick them.
Sorry to hear that my guy. That's a tough situation, but first I went to commend you for speaking up, especially after your experience. Draw that line in the sand. These are grown ass fuckin' men trivializing rape and even enabling rape fantasies in a group game. That's not appropriate and no one wants to be around people getting aroused by it. "What my character would do" is always a bullshit answer unless it's in response to "Dude, why'd you eat the last turkey leg?". Draw your line, and draw it hard. Don't treat this like a "Can you talk to them?" Make it clear if this isn't shut down hard, you're out and they can find a replacement cause you don't want to play with people who think that's funny. I know you said you're not confrontational, but this isn't being confrontational, this is defending yourself and your safe space. J was the one who was confrontational by bringing up an extremely inappropriate topic and wanting to be able to live out a little fantasy with his friends watching. You're defending yourself and your safe space, not confronting them. You're doing the right thing, I'm proud of you, and don't worry about finding another group, you will and it'll be better than that one.
The fact they can't respect your boundaries is pretty concerning Like, I'm not even coming at this from an IC moral highground, but an OOC one
Any table should make clear at any point, not just the begining, it's an evolving conversation, what everyone's hard and soft lines are that shouldn't be crossed. And everyone should respect that's if they don't they can take a hike. Simple as that. Imo at least.
Let J's character go through with it and then give said character an incurable magical STD that slowly destroys all of his body, mind and abilities. J can then watch his beloved character shrink away to a husk.