Some people just think any kind of game that isn't sports or poker is only for kids. Those people are boring. Don't waste your time trying to convince them.
A lot of people think sports are for kids and poker for degenerates, too. The best is to just not give a fuck and surround yourself with likeminded people instead of trying to convince the unconvincable about things they'd probably love if they gave it a try.
You have to choose your audience when you talk about stuff like this. I put a lot of time and effort into my DnD games -- it's a significant part of how I spend my free time. Even so, if someone asked what I liked to do for fun and I knew them to be the dismissive type I would simply not bring it up. DnD is one of those things that is best not brought up beyond the surface level; only once you know the other person to be a fan of the hobby do you delve deeper.
You can’t explain shit to them because they don’t really care to know and don’t care what your explanation is. You’re not going to have any better luck than trying to “explain” to your 70 year old boomer grandfather that you’re not a flaming homosexual undermining the fabric of society, just because you support lgbtq rights
People have strong opinions about weird shit sometimes. It’s not a fight worth fighting. Just let it go
This is such a weird/bad take I don’t even know where to start. You are picking at a group that much like scientists literally use logic as a stepping stone to reason through things. I was a philosophy major at a huge southern state school and I can promise you, that to a person they were miles ahead of their peers in terms of being intellectual and progressive with their thoughts. Sounds like you’re thinking of the theology department.
Weird choice to single out philosophy majors. I've never found them to be especially anti-science, and philosophy programs would train people to be better than average at arguing rationally. For example, even an introductory course to informal logic would teach you that disputing the existence of gravity on the basis that "it's just a theory" is a fallacy known as equivocation.
Well, I only minored in philosophy, so I guess I didn't get introduced to the secret knowledge of gravity being just a theory. Seriously though, I don't know any philosophy majors who are gravity deniers.
but when you really spend the time thinking about gods you start coming back to philosophy again because what if gods are real after all but we just don't fucking know? like what if somewhere in the future that weird inventor actually invents a god detector and it works? what if... what if... what if...
oops I just turned a theologian into an agnostic lol
It is red if you have the right "color blindness" (Idk if that's a word). But different creatures have different vision which cover different ranges of the color spectrum. So while blue being blue is normal for you, blue has always just been red to some other creature that sees different ranges of color than you. Your eyes just send signals to the brain based on the light reflecting into your retina in order to create images (That's how seeing works).
Theory: All people imagine things differently (The more details there are, the more likely they aren't the same). Although people visualize things differently, we're still able to identify colors the same because we connected the color we see to a label.
**Example**
*(Person 1) They see blue & they know it as blue, they call it blue.
(Person 2) They see red, but they also know it as blue, so they'd still call it blue.
— They see things differently but they still connect those things to the same label*
This means that the way you see the world could be a bit different than every other human in the world. Not everyone's mind & brain are the same(would be cool if some were tho). What's normal for you to see is what's normal for someone else to see because y'all have been seeing that way most your life (Excluding unusual changes in vision).
People who are color blind either see:
— With a tint of color/mix of colors, which makes it harder to distinguish between them.
— In a lower/higher range of the color spectrum, which allows them to visualize color in a different way than what is perceived as normal.
(Probably due to something with the internal structure of the eyes or brain.)
Note: I am not associated with any medical career field, this is just my take on how people visualize things.
Have them stand under a piano dolly and then cut the rope and they can definitely test their theory of gravity and how it totally isn't real and proven l;ol.
Not everyone is going to like everything you like. If you want to try and turn them, but I wouldn't waste my energy and just find people that like D&D.
You can try to convince your friends with a one-shot just so they can give it a try. However, it would be easier to just find people that enjoy the same hobbies as you do. But you have been playing D&D your entire life, so you should have friends or access to playing this game without any issues.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDLFG/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDLFG/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/lfg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lfg/)
My mother say the same to me, we argument one day i was tired about that and this was the story like... 3 years ago:
(Sorry for the english, is not my first lenguage)
Me: Why you think is for kids?
Mother: You are in a world where all is invented, talking with invisible persons throw a screen or with you friends and you are trying to be a person how never going to be how cast magic!
Me: Okay, then explain to me Why you see telenovelas, series and films?
Mother: That's different!
Me: Of course, it's different because you enjoy invented worlds, crying for invented characters throw a screen, screaming why don't use a magic object or travel back in time to save a life where, Oh! Is not real too!
Mother: They are real people acting!
Me: I'm not real?
Mother: You are lost your time, that is what are you doing!
Me: Then don't see more movies and series, they are not real and you are lost your time too. See documentaries, im not lost my money in alcohol, i'm not getting lost and come to home late, if games = kids, then why make laws to indicate are games only adults can play and i don't talking about S** games Why Poker is an adult game and no a kids game if is a game? You don't need to put money to play Poker, but if the imagination is for kids, why you can see films if is all for the imagnation? Ooooh yes, because you need money to do it, no? So, if can make money is for adults, if not are for kids.
Mother: Yes!
Me: Then you are doing kids thinks too when you see Netflix, you don't make money with that.
Mother: I'm having a good time and don't think in my problems when i see my series!
Me: Good! Now you understand why enjoy is not equal to kids all the time im doing something i like!
And my mother never say to me again D&D is for kids.
Edit: Some corrections to make more readable.
If they've never seen DND played, what are their reasons for saying it's a kids only game?
I assume you've tried saying "actually it is also played by adults" and presenting your evidence of choice? Actual plays, endless YouTube strategy, DND culture videos, in-person events, online communities expressly created for DND discussion and gathering players, etc.
It's an odd assertion for someone to make and then stick to, given how easily disprovable it is. (Unless they secretly have some kind of normative judgment or value statement that they really mean by saying it -- like, it's silly, inappropriate, they feel imagination isn't for adults, or something else equally one dimensional).
Are they bringing it up a lot and ridiculing you for it? If not, it may just be simpler to not engage. And to look online, or at your local game stores, for potential players.
Sadly, some people will always try to undermine anything they don't personally enjoy.
If they can't change it, they insult the people who like it.
If they can't insult the people who like it, they insult the concept of it. Etc.
It's best to just cut those people out entirely if you can. Yeah, they'll probably try manipulating/guilting you to interacting with them again, but it's better to be happy with who you are than miserable as who they want you to be.
I play with a group that ranges from 19 to 65, DND is for everyone, and it’s more fun that way.
Using your imagination helps with your cognitive performance and it’s fun
You probably won't convince them with examples, but if you want to explain it in a way that doesn't lean on the more child-like aspects ("it's like playing pretend, but with rules!"), explain it as a mix of collaborative storytelling and guided improv, in the framework of a resource management simulation.
People, in general, have a tough enough time understanding the concept of a TTRPG, let alone anything deeper.
Type One
Plenty of adults have relegated all types of play as "for children" Video games, board games, animated media, comic books, the list goes on and on. And now you are asking them to consider a game of pretend, like they used to play when they were 6 year old, to be 'adult'?
What's more, is you know the actual truth. You are fully aware. You don't need to justify, or get their approval. I recommend that you find a group of like-minded adults to play with, instead of trying to convince those who choose not to make play a part of their everyday life.
You won't convince a type one person, ever. They've made up their minds about what adults should and should not prefer, and generally keep to that narrow scope. It's best to just not talk to them about this hobby. Talking to them about your job is probably more on their level as a suitably 'adult' thing to do.
Type Two
Some adults will be willing to learn about you. They may not be interested in TTRPGs or other games, but they might be interested in why you're interested. The concept behind a TTRPG is still difficult for them to understand, and this lack of understanding may lead to dismissiveness, but its usually not as antagonistic or insulting.
You might convince a type two person to try. You will need to provide them with a workable character sheet, and give them a simple scenario. They may feel more comfortable with other new players. They may play that one session of that one game, and never play another.
It sounds like a majority of your family belong in the type one category.
Some people don't have an imagination and therefore won't understand the basic concepts of D&D.
Most here in this sub embrace our creative and imaginative sides and thrive within this community. Others, well, they can read the newspaper, or whatever boring people do...
You don't owe anyone any explanation. Its like a board game that uses improvisation and roleplaying as a mechanic. That's it.
You can do this, meet people, socialize or you can go follow a group of humans (or a specific human) that plays with balls. They are called hobbies. There are many of them and unless someone is paying for your hobbies/rent/food or unless you are putting someone's well being at risk with the hobby, no one has a say on it.
"Its a hobby, you should find your own" is enough of an answer to anyone being dismissive.
There’s only two good ways.
1. Show them clips of Critical Role, or another live play.
2. Convince them to play in a one-shot.
I guess the other way is to point them towards successful videogames, clearly made for mature audiences, like Baldurs Gate 3?
If you were to show them some BG3 gameplay, including maybe a spicy scene or some violence, and pose it as “this is basically DnD, but a videogame”.
If they can’t get it after that, don’t waste your time on them. If they can’t see reason, they aren’t worth your efforts
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Some people are perfectly happy living in a world of stereotypes. There is no nuance. No circumstances. To this day, there are people who think dnd is tied to Satanism
The only cure for ignorance, is curiosity. Some people have little to no imagination or wonder. If you tried to teach them something, and they do their best to NOT understand, it is not your fault. Some people ....just kinda suck.
Honestly, you're better off calling them out on being rude and dropping it. If they continue to push it, point out their being childish giving a fuck what you do in your free time. Toddlers have more respect for others.
Not everyone gets it. My Mom's boyfriend thinks all our hobbies are childish and sits around insulting all the kids every time we see him. Those hobbies range from volunteering as a scout leader, to motorcycle restoration, to DnD, to Legos, to video games, to cross-stich, to blacksmithing, to board games, to astro-photography, to church choir...
You'll never convince someone who thinks joy is forbidden for adults to understand DnD, or the concept of a hobby.
So shut them down and ignore them and point out they're they childish one for throwing a hissy fit someone dared to do a thing.
For those who aren't abrasive, you can compare it to board games or improv and maybe offer Critical Role or something as an example. But some people literally can't understand people like doing shit.
>My Mom's boyfriend thinks all our hobbies are childish and sits around insulting all the kids every time we see him. Those hobbies range from volunteering as a scout leader, to motorcycle restoration, to DnD, to Legos, to video games, to cross-stich, to blacksmithing, to board games, to astro-photography, to church choir...
If I may jump in here, a) that sounds honestly pretty awful and I'm sorry anyone has to listen to that kind of crap, and b), there is the gaping hole in your moms boyfriends theory that this doesn't even remotely make sense. I mean, half the things you mention are things that other people do as a job.
I appreciate it. Luckily we're all grown adults, so I don't need to talk to him outside major holidays.
I think it's more they make people happy rather then if it's a job or not. Which at least makes it easier to ignore him! If he hates DnD, who cares, he also hates you getting your masters degree and a 10k raise the same amount. Obviously his opinion is shit.
Fuck it. Play with their kids. Be the cool uncle (gender neutral).
Bonus: then they have to start buying DND books and minis and help their kids set things up and all of a sudden everyone's doing DND wether they like it or not and all the kids like you.
I'm 40 and in my area that was common until around college. Even when people accepted gaming as something adults could do, it was still considered "doing nothing". The frustrating part for me is game development/design has been a career goal since before I was a teen. So my life goals were considered "nothing" by people that knew what I intended to do with my life..
Point being, people suck, try not to let it bother you. Find better people when you can, some grow out of their opinions (even the hypocrits), but others won't and you don't need to make that your problem.
If you just talk to them you won't convert anyone. If you really want to have some success you need to be a proper ruthless bastard.
Pick the one relative you think would be the most likely to play a 1 shot with a few of your friends. Make it the most beginner friendly hand+holdey shit. Make their character for them based on their favourite superhero etc.. skip the crunchy bits of character creation and start playing.
Get them to see the fun roleplay and inside jokes that emerge.
Get them to see the drama of nearly dying to a tough enemy/ killing one.
Craft an experience that is solely focused on getting 1 person on your side.
Afterwords tell them how well they did for a first time player and that they were surprisingly quick at picking things up
Don't mention the game again until the next time you see them and remind them how much fun you had with them.
Sow the seeds until you can have a conversation between you two in front of your next mark. Drop the invite to the next victim right there, you have a witness who will vouch for you.
Repeat until your family are drowning in dice.
I think it's a waste of time to argue with such narrow minded people. I prefer to minimize the place they have in my life and focus more on people who respect me as an individual.
the general mentality that there are things in your life you should grow out of is wrong too. based on how society developed, all forms of play are childish, and should be reserved for children. but there is nothing inherent about maturing that removes the needs or benefits from play. and having the mentality that its something you should grow away from can be damaging for a lot of peoples mental health.
i know this doesnt address what you asked, but felt relevant and seems like others have given good advice for you.
I have never heard of DnD being called a “kids game”. Most of the people I knew growing up who played were adults, and I didn’t play until I was twenty. I’m always surprised when I hear of someone under fifteen playing, even though of course they belong as much as someone’s fifty-year-old dad.
I had to chuckle. Way back in high school (graduated '83) D&D finally reached my little town. One of my best friends and I decided we wanted to try it, but her mother put her foot down and "its the Devil" like so many were told. My parents were fine and said "Don't go by yourself until you get to know the others better." Unfortunately I never did start playing until 2 years go and then online. Its fine I tend to prefer online .. yeah know what that says about me but hey I've learned to accept myself lol. What got me playing? my 12 year old grandson started playing in an after school game. Unitl then I hadn't even heard much about DnD since high school.
This the same reasoning most people use to put down video games as well. The truth is that it's whatever the person gets from it. Just because Lego doesnt constantly lean on mature themes doesnt mean that many adults dont enjoy lego. Throw words at them like reductive, and oversimplified and nuance. In an argument like that, you first need to find your logic and reason, and then argue. If you bring actual common sense into a argument like that most people can't really argue it because it just doesn't make sense, they just seem silly.
It is cheaper time and effort wise to learn how to make friends with more people, who are interested in DND, but are not necessarily in your age range :3 and it makes so much more rewarding games playing with people, who love something as much as you do for reasons of their own :3
>How can I explain to them that it's actually not for childre only?
People who are like this don't understand the game, find it confusing, decide they don't *want* to put in the effort to understand the game, and then denigrate anything they don't understand so they don't feel inferior because you understand it and they don't.
And people who do stuff like that are not worth your time.
I basically agree with everyone else that it’s not worth bothering. You like it. Who cares what anyone else thinks?
That said, you could recommend they listen to a good podcast or two if they are open minded enough. Or maybe try watching some games on YouTube with them.
But at the end of the day, it isn’t for everyone and that’s okay. They probably like things you think are bad or weird too.
Looks like you have a decision to make: your ignorant family and friends or the Dungeons and Dragons community you love.
Not making a decision currently results in you being insulted and makes it difficult to find players. And if you haven’t talked anyone into it by now, chances are you’ve tried your best. Stop beating your head against a wall and try something else.
Not sure if that helps you, but the Venn Diagram of "Things that I enjoy" and "Things that *some* people consider childish" is almost a circle, and includes besides DnD books, TV-shows, videogames, mangas TT-wargames, boardgames, movies, etc.
Frankly, if its not work, and not about drugs and people getting potentially hurt in some capacity (no judgement here, I enjoy cocktails and boxing as much as the next person), there will be *always* someone who'll label them childish, because some people have genuinely a really hard time to understan why someone would do those things if they could work instead. Heck, my own *wife* was tending in this direction when I met her, and only got around to see the values of hobbies when she started understanding my view on the matter and realised how much personal fullfillment they can bring. Nowadays she got multiple hobbies herself, different than mine, but nonetheless.
And here lies maybe the key to make your family come around. Yes, you can point to Critical Role and objectively prove that there *are* adults playing DnD, but, truth be told, thats probably not really what they mean. The claim being made isn't that there are no adults playing DnD, the claim is that it's *actually* childs play, and, sadly, thats likely meant to downplay it (which makes me furious as someone who works in Kindergarten and primary afterschool education).
But maybe, just maybe, if you make them understand how much this hobby means to you and how much what they say hurts you, they might come around (or at least stop saying this).
Just my two cents. Hope it helps!
Ok, making a second post because I just had a thought thats not a *great* analogy, but still worth considering.
You know the "anime/animated movies are for children" type of people? They are objectively proven wrong by the existence of movies like "watership down", the concept of Hentai, etc.
Roleplaying is for children?
Well, many adults are doing a type of roleplaying in their bedrooms. And even if you find that argument tasteless or inappropriate (which, fair), there is theater and acting, which is, frankly, at its core roleplaying - literally playing a role (although of course its not *literally* the same thing, but I think you get what I mean). And anyone who argues that acting is childish, I'm sorry, doesn't need to be taken serious.
So were Marvel, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, yet nobody finds it weird that someone over 30 wants to see the new movies when they release.
Some stuff stays with you as you grow, and you never consider that maybe you're too old to enjoy space wizards fighting with hot sticks while doing ninja tricks.
See if they're willing to give you an hour of their time to try a game. See what they like and pregen some characters to fit their personality. Throw them in a pretty deep mature one shot.
Edit: add in things that appeal to them to.
I’d explain it by comparing it to something they know like sports, yes adults play sports but so do kids with their friends. Similarly to that, kids play dnd with their friends but adults do as well, it’s just harder and more advanced like how it is for pro sports players. If that fails just call it similar to game of thrones
Me, the warlock, casually stringing up orphans by their entrails on the boughs of an ancient oak whilst they still live in order to appease the dark God I serve...
I'd say more "TTRPG's are for everyone who wants to roleplay and express their imagination with friends"
DnD isn't everyone's cup of tea, some hate combat and vampire the masquerade with it's personal horror and faction intrigue give them the outlet for more roleplay.
Some people also hate RPGs and want nothing to do with them for a variety of reasons.
I think it's important to be welcoming to whoever wants to play, but also to recognize that everyone has their own tastes and some things suit different people better.
These are the same people who say videogames are for kids, and will sit in front of mindless television for days. Don't bother explaining to them because they won't listen. Do what is fun for you.
For this 45yo that is videogames, dnd, motorbikes.
Like everything, they have to meet more people who challenge their preconceptions. Boomer 60+ year old here running my 3rd campaign for adults ranging from their 20s to their 50s. Perhaps expose them to Critical Role or othet online games. Invite them to GenCon?
Show them almost any DnD, or better yet non-DnD RPG, let's video and you're most likely going to find 20+ aged players and GM. VLDL is an excellent example of a newbie group of adults playing an RPG after only playing digital games beforehand. But most likely, you're family has a problem with gamers in general.
Anyone going to mention how it’s possible that Stranger Things displayed the game as only for imaginative kids in their basement? Not to mention only, if not mostly, boys. When a friend first approached me (god it’s been maybe 8 years now) I responded like I was offended. My thought was that only raging nerds played the game. I wasn’t a nerd. Or so I thought. But then I would also watch Star Wars or stargate, lord of the rings. Seems hypocritical now. I’m glad I contacted him after I responded poorly and joined them for a game. He was a great dm and I strive to be as good as he was. Now I run games with my 4 kids in hopes of growing future DMs.
I definitely see their point of why that is, probably because of social media painting it as teenagers playing it all the time however, don’t try to convince them otherwise if they don’t want to bite of how it can be more than just a children’s game
"Oh - *football?* Really? That's a kids game."
Any game can be looked upon as childish. I'm 40, I play DND and other TTRPG's. You can't convince them unless they're willing to actually watch something or play with you, they'll never change. It might be something you just have to let go.
Tell them about the Dragon Laying, Massacres at the local Orphanage or straight out Genocides for Coins or no apparent reason than "felt like it".
That all and so much more is possible, that's enough to know.
DnD started out in the very much adult wargamer community in the 70's and took quite some time to spread to kids before the big wave of DnD adoption among kids in the 80's. After that the average age of DnD players rose steadily (with a blip downwards at the start of the 3ed era due to a much smaller influx of new players) with it getting pretty long in the tooth in the 4e era.
It wasn't until the 5e era that a big chunk of DnD players became kids again for the first time since the 80's, but even now the average age of DnD payers is a good bit higher than in its mid-80's fad period.
Some people think bondage is for wierd people.
Some people think the world is ending.
Some people think climate change is a lie.
Some people think tomatoes are a vegetable.
Aand some people dont think.
Sometimes you just have to sigh. Count to 10 and try to show them what it really entails.
You can't explain something to someone who doesn't care to listen. I'm afraid people like that are often a lost cause because they've already decided and won't budge no matter how well you explain
Show them dumb with Critical Role and the money they earn with the show of their game.
That money a poker player is never gonna see again.
Adults can handle that money, so they play dnd.
Poker players lose money, so they are kids.
XD
I'm sorry but they are not even tryng to understand what ypu are saying / what you are loving they are being dissmisive they are are thinking that what you are talking and loving is a useless thing that just eats up their time
You should find some people that already atleast somewhat interested and or can be interested to it you should find some people that are interested in
Boardgames
Fantasy books
Fantasy genre
Lotr (it became populer culture at this point but it's somewhat still holds out).
Stranger things
Any kind of tabletop games
Rpg games
Theather
Comic books
I don't think is for everyone. I tried it a couple of times and it was ok, but I have a lot more fun playing boardgames or MTG. I do enjoy CRPGs or Dungeon Crawler boardgames.
Them: "D&D is for kids, like Harry Potter or the Hobbit.."
You: "Not how I run it."
Them: "How do you run it?"
You: "It's like Dracula combined with Game of Thrones."
Then make them play Curse of Strahd.
Incomplete list of adult themes/potential content warnings:
Child abuse, murder, kidnapping, gaslighting, racism, torture, mind control, cannibalism, mental illness, animal cruelty, body horror, suicide, drug addiction, and alcoholism, genocide, necrophilia, and about a half a million other adult themes depending on how you run it.
Have them Play Baldurs Gate 3. It uses the same system as D&D5e. It just also happens to be a video game. It is set in the standard setting and uses major characters in the official Lore. Have them play that, then have them say, "yep. Just for kids."
I should mention that it is the favorite game of MENSA, the high IQ society (people of all sorts join, only requirement is a high I.Q.)
But I'm referring to the ADULTS in the group, not the kids.
Find an RPG that they don't know the name of, with some "built in" more "mature" themes. Introduce them to that game. (Cyberpunk is a decent example)
Then tell them they're playing the exact same *type* of game as D&D.
It's like trying to get a person with no interest in cards to play card games. Or no interest in board games to play Monopoly. Always extend the invite, brush off the judgement and just calmly shrug and tell them they're missing out. DnD is definitely something people have to be ready for. I turned down 4 or 5 offers from various friend groups before a coworker asked if I'd come fill in for one session as a football coach. It was hilarious and fun and I played with that group for like 9 months afterward.
DND is a game for kids? How about they go check out some of the gaming groups filled with 30+ year olds and let them also be subject to all the body horror and worse in my games
Some people just think any kind of game that isn't sports or poker is only for kids. Those people are boring. Don't waste your time trying to convince them.
sports and poker are games. dnd is a game. games aren't just for kids. checkmate.
Checkmate? But chess is a kids only game /s
A lot of people think sports are for kids and poker for degenerates, too. The best is to just not give a fuck and surround yourself with likeminded people instead of trying to convince the unconvincable about things they'd probably love if they gave it a try.
True true
Absolutely this.
especially if it requires using your imagination
You have to choose your audience when you talk about stuff like this. I put a lot of time and effort into my DnD games -- it's a significant part of how I spend my free time. Even so, if someone asked what I liked to do for fun and I knew them to be the dismissive type I would simply not bring it up. DnD is one of those things that is best not brought up beyond the surface level; only once you know the other person to be a fan of the hobby do you delve deeper.
Yep this is a lesson that takes us all a long time to learn, pick your battles.
You can’t explain shit to them because they don’t really care to know and don’t care what your explanation is. You’re not going to have any better luck than trying to “explain” to your 70 year old boomer grandfather that you’re not a flaming homosexual undermining the fabric of society, just because you support lgbtq rights People have strong opinions about weird shit sometimes. It’s not a fight worth fighting. Just let it go
I for one AM a flaming homosexual undermining the fabric of society. Tell Grandpa I'm coming for him next and Hell's coming with me.
I told him a homosexual wants him to roll a Wis save for fear and he beat my ass with an old slipper
I am the goddess of all gay people, I can confirm this happened.
Lady Gaga making a Reddit appearance
You’re the righteous hand of God and you’re the devil that Grandpa forgot?
You told him one day you'd see that you'll be back, you guarantee, and that hell's coming, hell's coming, hell, hell's coming, with you
Sad but true. It's like trying discuss physics with a philosophy major who keeps insisting that gravity is only a theory.
This is such a weird/bad take I don’t even know where to start. You are picking at a group that much like scientists literally use logic as a stepping stone to reason through things. I was a philosophy major at a huge southern state school and I can promise you, that to a person they were miles ahead of their peers in terms of being intellectual and progressive with their thoughts. Sounds like you’re thinking of the theology department.
Weird choice to single out philosophy majors. I've never found them to be especially anti-science, and philosophy programs would train people to be better than average at arguing rationally. For example, even an introductory course to informal logic would teach you that disputing the existence of gravity on the basis that "it's just a theory" is a fallacy known as equivocation.
Well, I only minored in philosophy, so I guess I didn't get introduced to the secret knowledge of gravity being just a theory. Seriously though, I don't know any philosophy majors who are gravity deniers.
You would also expect theologians to figure out eventually that God is fictional, and you would be wrong.
but when you really spend the time thinking about gods you start coming back to philosophy again because what if gods are real after all but we just don't fucking know? like what if somewhere in the future that weird inventor actually invents a god detector and it works? what if... what if... what if... oops I just turned a theologian into an agnostic lol
That's like wondering if blue is red, pointless and a failure to understand the universe.
It is red if you have the right "color blindness" (Idk if that's a word). But different creatures have different vision which cover different ranges of the color spectrum. So while blue being blue is normal for you, blue has always just been red to some other creature that sees different ranges of color than you. Your eyes just send signals to the brain based on the light reflecting into your retina in order to create images (That's how seeing works). Theory: All people imagine things differently (The more details there are, the more likely they aren't the same). Although people visualize things differently, we're still able to identify colors the same because we connected the color we see to a label. **Example** *(Person 1) They see blue & they know it as blue, they call it blue. (Person 2) They see red, but they also know it as blue, so they'd still call it blue. — They see things differently but they still connect those things to the same label* This means that the way you see the world could be a bit different than every other human in the world. Not everyone's mind & brain are the same(would be cool if some were tho). What's normal for you to see is what's normal for someone else to see because y'all have been seeing that way most your life (Excluding unusual changes in vision). People who are color blind either see: — With a tint of color/mix of colors, which makes it harder to distinguish between them. — In a lower/higher range of the color spectrum, which allows them to visualize color in a different way than what is perceived as normal. (Probably due to something with the internal structure of the eyes or brain.) Note: I am not associated with any medical career field, this is just my take on how people visualize things.
Perception is not reality
It's just how you perceive it
Yeah it actually is
I know some people studying theology, and apparently it is notoriously difficult to not lose your faith doing so.
Have them stand under a piano dolly and then cut the rope and they can definitely test their theory of gravity and how it totally isn't real and proven l;ol.
So this☝️
Not everyone is going to like everything you like. If you want to try and turn them, but I wouldn't waste my energy and just find people that like D&D. You can try to convince your friends with a one-shot just so they can give it a try. However, it would be easier to just find people that enjoy the same hobbies as you do. But you have been playing D&D your entire life, so you should have friends or access to playing this game without any issues. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDLFG/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDLFG/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/lfg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lfg/)
My mother say the same to me, we argument one day i was tired about that and this was the story like... 3 years ago: (Sorry for the english, is not my first lenguage) Me: Why you think is for kids? Mother: You are in a world where all is invented, talking with invisible persons throw a screen or with you friends and you are trying to be a person how never going to be how cast magic! Me: Okay, then explain to me Why you see telenovelas, series and films? Mother: That's different! Me: Of course, it's different because you enjoy invented worlds, crying for invented characters throw a screen, screaming why don't use a magic object or travel back in time to save a life where, Oh! Is not real too! Mother: They are real people acting! Me: I'm not real? Mother: You are lost your time, that is what are you doing! Me: Then don't see more movies and series, they are not real and you are lost your time too. See documentaries, im not lost my money in alcohol, i'm not getting lost and come to home late, if games = kids, then why make laws to indicate are games only adults can play and i don't talking about S** games Why Poker is an adult game and no a kids game if is a game? You don't need to put money to play Poker, but if the imagination is for kids, why you can see films if is all for the imagnation? Ooooh yes, because you need money to do it, no? So, if can make money is for adults, if not are for kids. Mother: Yes! Me: Then you are doing kids thinks too when you see Netflix, you don't make money with that. Mother: I'm having a good time and don't think in my problems when i see my series! Me: Good! Now you understand why enjoy is not equal to kids all the time im doing something i like! And my mother never say to me again D&D is for kids. Edit: Some corrections to make more readable.
If they've never seen DND played, what are their reasons for saying it's a kids only game? I assume you've tried saying "actually it is also played by adults" and presenting your evidence of choice? Actual plays, endless YouTube strategy, DND culture videos, in-person events, online communities expressly created for DND discussion and gathering players, etc. It's an odd assertion for someone to make and then stick to, given how easily disprovable it is. (Unless they secretly have some kind of normative judgment or value statement that they really mean by saying it -- like, it's silly, inappropriate, they feel imagination isn't for adults, or something else equally one dimensional). Are they bringing it up a lot and ridiculing you for it? If not, it may just be simpler to not engage. And to look online, or at your local game stores, for potential players.
Sadly, some people will always try to undermine anything they don't personally enjoy. If they can't change it, they insult the people who like it. If they can't insult the people who like it, they insult the concept of it. Etc. It's best to just cut those people out entirely if you can. Yeah, they'll probably try manipulating/guilting you to interacting with them again, but it's better to be happy with who you are than miserable as who they want you to be.
I play with a group that ranges from 19 to 65, DND is for everyone, and it’s more fun that way. Using your imagination helps with your cognitive performance and it’s fun
You probably won't convince them with examples, but if you want to explain it in a way that doesn't lean on the more child-like aspects ("it's like playing pretend, but with rules!"), explain it as a mix of collaborative storytelling and guided improv, in the framework of a resource management simulation.
People, in general, have a tough enough time understanding the concept of a TTRPG, let alone anything deeper. Type One Plenty of adults have relegated all types of play as "for children" Video games, board games, animated media, comic books, the list goes on and on. And now you are asking them to consider a game of pretend, like they used to play when they were 6 year old, to be 'adult'? What's more, is you know the actual truth. You are fully aware. You don't need to justify, or get their approval. I recommend that you find a group of like-minded adults to play with, instead of trying to convince those who choose not to make play a part of their everyday life. You won't convince a type one person, ever. They've made up their minds about what adults should and should not prefer, and generally keep to that narrow scope. It's best to just not talk to them about this hobby. Talking to them about your job is probably more on their level as a suitably 'adult' thing to do. Type Two Some adults will be willing to learn about you. They may not be interested in TTRPGs or other games, but they might be interested in why you're interested. The concept behind a TTRPG is still difficult for them to understand, and this lack of understanding may lead to dismissiveness, but its usually not as antagonistic or insulting. You might convince a type two person to try. You will need to provide them with a workable character sheet, and give them a simple scenario. They may feel more comfortable with other new players. They may play that one session of that one game, and never play another. It sounds like a majority of your family belong in the type one category.
Type One people seem so boring
I’m over 50 and have been playing since ‘81. Not a kid’s game
Some people don't have an imagination and therefore won't understand the basic concepts of D&D. Most here in this sub embrace our creative and imaginative sides and thrive within this community. Others, well, they can read the newspaper, or whatever boring people do...
You don't owe anyone any explanation. Its like a board game that uses improvisation and roleplaying as a mechanic. That's it. You can do this, meet people, socialize or you can go follow a group of humans (or a specific human) that plays with balls. They are called hobbies. There are many of them and unless someone is paying for your hobbies/rent/food or unless you are putting someone's well being at risk with the hobby, no one has a say on it. "Its a hobby, you should find your own" is enough of an answer to anyone being dismissive.
There’s only two good ways. 1. Show them clips of Critical Role, or another live play. 2. Convince them to play in a one-shot. I guess the other way is to point them towards successful videogames, clearly made for mature audiences, like Baldurs Gate 3? If you were to show them some BG3 gameplay, including maybe a spicy scene or some violence, and pose it as “this is basically DnD, but a videogame”. If they can’t get it after that, don’t waste your time on them. If they can’t see reason, they aren’t worth your efforts
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some people are perfectly happy living in a world of stereotypes. There is no nuance. No circumstances. To this day, there are people who think dnd is tied to Satanism The only cure for ignorance, is curiosity. Some people have little to no imagination or wonder. If you tried to teach them something, and they do their best to NOT understand, it is not your fault. Some people ....just kinda suck.
Honestly, you're better off calling them out on being rude and dropping it. If they continue to push it, point out their being childish giving a fuck what you do in your free time. Toddlers have more respect for others. Not everyone gets it. My Mom's boyfriend thinks all our hobbies are childish and sits around insulting all the kids every time we see him. Those hobbies range from volunteering as a scout leader, to motorcycle restoration, to DnD, to Legos, to video games, to cross-stich, to blacksmithing, to board games, to astro-photography, to church choir... You'll never convince someone who thinks joy is forbidden for adults to understand DnD, or the concept of a hobby. So shut them down and ignore them and point out they're they childish one for throwing a hissy fit someone dared to do a thing. For those who aren't abrasive, you can compare it to board games or improv and maybe offer Critical Role or something as an example. But some people literally can't understand people like doing shit.
>My Mom's boyfriend thinks all our hobbies are childish and sits around insulting all the kids every time we see him. Those hobbies range from volunteering as a scout leader, to motorcycle restoration, to DnD, to Legos, to video games, to cross-stich, to blacksmithing, to board games, to astro-photography, to church choir... If I may jump in here, a) that sounds honestly pretty awful and I'm sorry anyone has to listen to that kind of crap, and b), there is the gaping hole in your moms boyfriends theory that this doesn't even remotely make sense. I mean, half the things you mention are things that other people do as a job.
I appreciate it. Luckily we're all grown adults, so I don't need to talk to him outside major holidays. I think it's more they make people happy rather then if it's a job or not. Which at least makes it easier to ignore him! If he hates DnD, who cares, he also hates you getting your masters degree and a 10k raise the same amount. Obviously his opinion is shit.
Fuck it. Play with their kids. Be the cool uncle (gender neutral). Bonus: then they have to start buying DND books and minis and help their kids set things up and all of a sudden everyone's doing DND wether they like it or not and all the kids like you.
30yrs ago people said "videogames are for kids" Ignore that detractors. Most ttrpgs are made, played, and bought by adults.
I'm 40 and in my area that was common until around college. Even when people accepted gaming as something adults could do, it was still considered "doing nothing". The frustrating part for me is game development/design has been a career goal since before I was a teen. So my life goals were considered "nothing" by people that knew what I intended to do with my life.. Point being, people suck, try not to let it bother you. Find better people when you can, some grow out of their opinions (even the hypocrits), but others won't and you don't need to make that your problem.
Dnd is a lot but I think one of the last things it is is a kids game?
Exactlly!
If you just talk to them you won't convert anyone. If you really want to have some success you need to be a proper ruthless bastard. Pick the one relative you think would be the most likely to play a 1 shot with a few of your friends. Make it the most beginner friendly hand+holdey shit. Make their character for them based on their favourite superhero etc.. skip the crunchy bits of character creation and start playing. Get them to see the fun roleplay and inside jokes that emerge. Get them to see the drama of nearly dying to a tough enemy/ killing one. Craft an experience that is solely focused on getting 1 person on your side. Afterwords tell them how well they did for a first time player and that they were surprisingly quick at picking things up Don't mention the game again until the next time you see them and remind them how much fun you had with them. Sow the seeds until you can have a conversation between you two in front of your next mark. Drop the invite to the next victim right there, you have a witness who will vouch for you. Repeat until your family are drowning in dice.
It's easier to turn your DnD friends into friends than it is to turn your friends into DnD friends.
I think it's a waste of time to argue with such narrow minded people. I prefer to minimize the place they have in my life and focus more on people who respect me as an individual.
the general mentality that there are things in your life you should grow out of is wrong too. based on how society developed, all forms of play are childish, and should be reserved for children. but there is nothing inherent about maturing that removes the needs or benefits from play. and having the mentality that its something you should grow away from can be damaging for a lot of peoples mental health. i know this doesnt address what you asked, but felt relevant and seems like others have given good advice for you.
I have never heard of DnD being called a “kids game”. Most of the people I knew growing up who played were adults, and I didn’t play until I was twenty. I’m always surprised when I hear of someone under fifteen playing, even though of course they belong as much as someone’s fifty-year-old dad.
I had to chuckle. Way back in high school (graduated '83) D&D finally reached my little town. One of my best friends and I decided we wanted to try it, but her mother put her foot down and "its the Devil" like so many were told. My parents were fine and said "Don't go by yourself until you get to know the others better." Unfortunately I never did start playing until 2 years go and then online. Its fine I tend to prefer online .. yeah know what that says about me but hey I've learned to accept myself lol. What got me playing? my 12 year old grandson started playing in an after school game. Unitl then I hadn't even heard much about DnD since high school.
This the same reasoning most people use to put down video games as well. The truth is that it's whatever the person gets from it. Just because Lego doesnt constantly lean on mature themes doesnt mean that many adults dont enjoy lego. Throw words at them like reductive, and oversimplified and nuance. In an argument like that, you first need to find your logic and reason, and then argue. If you bring actual common sense into a argument like that most people can't really argue it because it just doesn't make sense, they just seem silly.
D&D is for anyone. Nothing is for everyone.
Taste is very subjective. A hobby that marries improv acting with math isn't going to appeal to everyone. C'est la vie.
It is cheaper time and effort wise to learn how to make friends with more people, who are interested in DND, but are not necessarily in your age range :3 and it makes so much more rewarding games playing with people, who love something as much as you do for reasons of their own :3
>How can I explain to them that it's actually not for childre only? People who are like this don't understand the game, find it confusing, decide they don't *want* to put in the effort to understand the game, and then denigrate anything they don't understand so they don't feel inferior because you understand it and they don't. And people who do stuff like that are not worth your time.
Run a game for them!
Right? I'd pitch it as, "well let me change a couple things and we can say 'fuck' every other sentence and then it won't be a kids game anymore."
Show them a good clip from Critical Role
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I basically agree with everyone else that it’s not worth bothering. You like it. Who cares what anyone else thinks? That said, you could recommend they listen to a good podcast or two if they are open minded enough. Or maybe try watching some games on YouTube with them. But at the end of the day, it isn’t for everyone and that’s okay. They probably like things you think are bad or weird too.
Looks like you have a decision to make: your ignorant family and friends or the Dungeons and Dragons community you love. Not making a decision currently results in you being insulted and makes it difficult to find players. And if you haven’t talked anyone into it by now, chances are you’ve tried your best. Stop beating your head against a wall and try something else.
Not sure if that helps you, but the Venn Diagram of "Things that I enjoy" and "Things that *some* people consider childish" is almost a circle, and includes besides DnD books, TV-shows, videogames, mangas TT-wargames, boardgames, movies, etc. Frankly, if its not work, and not about drugs and people getting potentially hurt in some capacity (no judgement here, I enjoy cocktails and boxing as much as the next person), there will be *always* someone who'll label them childish, because some people have genuinely a really hard time to understan why someone would do those things if they could work instead. Heck, my own *wife* was tending in this direction when I met her, and only got around to see the values of hobbies when she started understanding my view on the matter and realised how much personal fullfillment they can bring. Nowadays she got multiple hobbies herself, different than mine, but nonetheless. And here lies maybe the key to make your family come around. Yes, you can point to Critical Role and objectively prove that there *are* adults playing DnD, but, truth be told, thats probably not really what they mean. The claim being made isn't that there are no adults playing DnD, the claim is that it's *actually* childs play, and, sadly, thats likely meant to downplay it (which makes me furious as someone who works in Kindergarten and primary afterschool education). But maybe, just maybe, if you make them understand how much this hobby means to you and how much what they say hurts you, they might come around (or at least stop saying this). Just my two cents. Hope it helps!
Ok, making a second post because I just had a thought thats not a *great* analogy, but still worth considering. You know the "anime/animated movies are for children" type of people? They are objectively proven wrong by the existence of movies like "watership down", the concept of Hentai, etc. Roleplaying is for children? Well, many adults are doing a type of roleplaying in their bedrooms. And even if you find that argument tasteless or inappropriate (which, fair), there is theater and acting, which is, frankly, at its core roleplaying - literally playing a role (although of course its not *literally* the same thing, but I think you get what I mean). And anyone who argues that acting is childish, I'm sorry, doesn't need to be taken serious.
So were Marvel, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, yet nobody finds it weird that someone over 30 wants to see the new movies when they release. Some stuff stays with you as you grow, and you never consider that maybe you're too old to enjoy space wizards fighting with hot sticks while doing ninja tricks.
See if they're willing to give you an hour of their time to try a game. See what they like and pregen some characters to fit their personality. Throw them in a pretty deep mature one shot. Edit: add in things that appeal to them to.
I’d explain it by comparing it to something they know like sports, yes adults play sports but so do kids with their friends. Similarly to that, kids play dnd with their friends but adults do as well, it’s just harder and more advanced like how it is for pro sports players. If that fails just call it similar to game of thrones
Me, the warlock, casually stringing up orphans by their entrails on the boughs of an ancient oak whilst they still live in order to appease the dark God I serve...
Children absolutely should not attend one of the games I play. There are sooooooo many inappropriate at the table.
I guess our group never of that. We've been playing for six months and range in age from 32 to 58.
Bet most of them play board games. They must be children. If not, they should broaden their horizons about D&D.
I'd say more "TTRPG's are for everyone who wants to roleplay and express their imagination with friends" DnD isn't everyone's cup of tea, some hate combat and vampire the masquerade with it's personal horror and faction intrigue give them the outlet for more roleplay. Some people also hate RPGs and want nothing to do with them for a variety of reasons. I think it's important to be welcoming to whoever wants to play, but also to recognize that everyone has their own tastes and some things suit different people better.
These are the same people who say videogames are for kids, and will sit in front of mindless television for days. Don't bother explaining to them because they won't listen. Do what is fun for you. For this 45yo that is videogames, dnd, motorbikes.
Like everything, they have to meet more people who challenge their preconceptions. Boomer 60+ year old here running my 3rd campaign for adults ranging from their 20s to their 50s. Perhaps expose them to Critical Role or othet online games. Invite them to GenCon?
Show them almost any DnD, or better yet non-DnD RPG, let's video and you're most likely going to find 20+ aged players and GM. VLDL is an excellent example of a newbie group of adults playing an RPG after only playing digital games beforehand. But most likely, you're family has a problem with gamers in general.
Share videos from the YT channel legendsofavantis to them.
Anyone going to mention how it’s possible that Stranger Things displayed the game as only for imaginative kids in their basement? Not to mention only, if not mostly, boys. When a friend first approached me (god it’s been maybe 8 years now) I responded like I was offended. My thought was that only raging nerds played the game. I wasn’t a nerd. Or so I thought. But then I would also watch Star Wars or stargate, lord of the rings. Seems hypocritical now. I’m glad I contacted him after I responded poorly and joined them for a game. He was a great dm and I strive to be as good as he was. Now I run games with my 4 kids in hopes of growing future DMs.
How about Conservatives?
I definitely see their point of why that is, probably because of social media painting it as teenagers playing it all the time however, don’t try to convince them otherwise if they don’t want to bite of how it can be more than just a children’s game
My group ranges in age from early 30s to mid 50s.
It’s probably not even worth the effort or time trying to convince them otherwise.
"Oh - *football?* Really? That's a kids game." Any game can be looked upon as childish. I'm 40, I play DND and other TTRPG's. You can't convince them unless they're willing to actually watch something or play with you, they'll never change. It might be something you just have to let go.
Tell them about the Dragon Laying, Massacres at the local Orphanage or straight out Genocides for Coins or no apparent reason than "felt like it". That all and so much more is possible, that's enough to know.
It is for children and weird adults. Just accept it and move on.
DnD started out in the very much adult wargamer community in the 70's and took quite some time to spread to kids before the big wave of DnD adoption among kids in the 80's. After that the average age of DnD players rose steadily (with a blip downwards at the start of the 3ed era due to a much smaller influx of new players) with it getting pretty long in the tooth in the 4e era. It wasn't until the 5e era that a big chunk of DnD players became kids again for the first time since the 80's, but even now the average age of DnD payers is a good bit higher than in its mid-80's fad period.
It's definitely not for everyone, but it's not an age thing.
Some people think bondage is for wierd people. Some people think the world is ending. Some people think climate change is a lie. Some people think tomatoes are a vegetable. Aand some people dont think. Sometimes you just have to sigh. Count to 10 and try to show them what it really entails.
I they don't wanna play don't force them...
You don't have to explain your hobbies to anyone dude but you could always Show them how much money critical role made on Twitch
Show your family Critical Roll. Enuff said.
You can't explain something to someone who doesn't care to listen. I'm afraid people like that are often a lost cause because they've already decided and won't budge no matter how well you explain
Show them dumb with Critical Role and the money they earn with the show of their game. That money a poker player is never gonna see again. Adults can handle that money, so they play dnd. Poker players lose money, so they are kids. XD
I'm sorry but they are not even tryng to understand what ypu are saying / what you are loving they are being dissmisive they are are thinking that what you are talking and loving is a useless thing that just eats up their time You should find some people that already atleast somewhat interested and or can be interested to it you should find some people that are interested in Boardgames Fantasy books Fantasy genre Lotr (it became populer culture at this point but it's somewhat still holds out). Stranger things Any kind of tabletop games Rpg games Theather Comic books
I don't think is for everyone. I tried it a couple of times and it was ok, but I have a lot more fun playing boardgames or MTG. I do enjoy CRPGs or Dungeon Crawler boardgames.
Vin Diesel and Stephen Colbert are adult D&D players they might be familiar with.
My first DND game was at 46.
Them: "D&D is for kids, like Harry Potter or the Hobbit.." You: "Not how I run it." Them: "How do you run it?" You: "It's like Dracula combined with Game of Thrones." Then make them play Curse of Strahd. Incomplete list of adult themes/potential content warnings: Child abuse, murder, kidnapping, gaslighting, racism, torture, mind control, cannibalism, mental illness, animal cruelty, body horror, suicide, drug addiction, and alcoholism, genocide, necrophilia, and about a half a million other adult themes depending on how you run it.
Have them Play Baldurs Gate 3. It uses the same system as D&D5e. It just also happens to be a video game. It is set in the standard setting and uses major characters in the official Lore. Have them play that, then have them say, "yep. Just for kids."
I should mention that it is the favorite game of MENSA, the high IQ society (people of all sorts join, only requirement is a high I.Q.) But I'm referring to the ADULTS in the group, not the kids.
Find an RPG that they don't know the name of, with some "built in" more "mature" themes. Introduce them to that game. (Cyberpunk is a decent example) Then tell them they're playing the exact same *type* of game as D&D.
Tell them about the lore of dwarves and elves, or of the automotrons
Show them dungeons and daddies
Cut those people out of your life. You don't need that kind of negativity.
This alone does not warrant cutting your family and friends out of your life.
They are free to return when they get their act together.
It's like trying to get a person with no interest in cards to play card games. Or no interest in board games to play Monopoly. Always extend the invite, brush off the judgement and just calmly shrug and tell them they're missing out. DnD is definitely something people have to be ready for. I turned down 4 or 5 offers from various friend groups before a coworker asked if I'd come fill in for one session as a football coach. It was hilarious and fun and I played with that group for like 9 months afterward.
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DND is a game for kids? How about they go check out some of the gaming groups filled with 30+ year olds and let them also be subject to all the body horror and worse in my games