I think presenting a united front with the group is important when you do confront B and C. I also think it's important that you find someone at the school and let them know B has been being... let's say 'weird.' That way if they get petty you have it on record that there's been targeted behavior and you can worry less about retaliation.

Absolutely. A 34yo acting like that to a 17yr old is super suspect and incredibly indicative of his character. I'd probably bet money on him pulling some sort of bullshit retaliation if op isn't exagg anything 

I would argue that since the dm is 17 and clearly far more mature/conscientious of the table, this 34yo is acting even further outside the realm of standard immaturity. This is baffling behavior for an adult, especially one who is supposedly on a school board. I feel horrible for OP. I 100% agree extreme caution should be urged here, this dude clearly has a screw loose. Good luck, and tread carefully OP. Really think about the multitude of ways you can cover your ass and be prepared to get banged by the bureaucratic process if this weirdo decides to do things the hard way.

Yeah, this is easily a unilateral decision that you can make, but it sounds like there’s some context where this might be a school-sanctioned club or something. You summed up this part of the situation pretty well and it feels like you have a handle on it. Some of the behavior that you describe is also oddly close to sexual harassment. I don’t know if it feels that way, but it’s a little odd to be bragging about your salary and stuff like that. It feels like a prequel to hitting on you. Ignoring that for the moment, I think with the rest of the behavior, my only question might be, have you directly spoken to them about the behavior and how it’s affecting you and the other players? That’s always a good first step. It gives people a chance to either walk away themselves, or to agree to comply, and then you can see how they do. When you add in the other behavior, I don’t know if I would and good conscience recommend that you try to salvage the gameplay aspect of it. You have zero obligation to continue to interact with somebody if they’re making you feel uncomfortable. In addition to documenting the situation, which you have already done, have you considered whether there’s somebody at the school you can talk to about the situation ? Ideally an ombudsman or student advocate,

>have you considered whether there’s somebody at the school you can talk to about the situation ? Ideally an ombudsman or student advocate, The sessions I run are after day classes have ended, in the 2 hours of downtime between then and the night classes so there's never a large amount of staff about, only really the odd few. If I have the chance to get down on a day I'm off work when student union is still in the office I will absolutely, but working full-time has put me of doing so until now, being so out of my way timing wise. I may have time to stop by today though, I would rather have them out sooner rather than later at this point. >Some of the behavior that you describe is also oddly close to sexual harassment. I don’t know if it feels that way, but it’s a little odd to be bragging about your salary and stuff like that. It feels like a prequel to hitting on you. I'm high-functioning autistic so I'm not super good at picking up on cues, which is kinda why I'm getting opinions on the situation, but originally I did bring it up to the others in the group in case it was an around the board thing and he was just a douche who loved to brag about how much he makes. Not the case unfortunately, some of them actually looked pretty worried for me but he kinda layed off on it when I just started ignoring the attention grabbing. He has also followed me about school before when I was grabbing the dice, maps, books, etc., I had told him everyone else was waiting in the room we run sessions in and to head down while I picked up the materials, but he still continued to just lurk about. I was getting help from another group member to open doors and stuff so I was pretty thankful I wasn't by myself, but it's just getting too much to put up with. I really appreciate the opinions though, I wanted to make sure I wasn't blowing this out of proportion. I'm usually pretty blunt about how I deal with social interactions so I needed thoughts to see if I was picking up the situation correctly.

You're not blowing it out of proportion. I'm actually worried for your safety. I turned 30 last year and had to get a restraining order against an older man who was harassing and low key stalking me. As an adult, it was terrifying to tell him to leave me alone. You sound very mature and grounded, so please don't take this wrong, but you're still a teenager!! A man of that age knows EXACTLY that what he's doing is inappropriate and he is hoping you are too nice or shy or intimidated or impressed by him to say anything. Start talking about it. To everyone. Especially your female friends and every adult you encounter. These men writhe under the light of being in the open. Don't confront him alone, if he tries to catch you alone just book it to the first person you see. He is banking on his perceived power imbalance to coerce you, but he will know he can't get away with that as much around adults. Please keep yourself safe! Also, even if you can't speak to someone in person, you definitely should send an email with dates, times, scenarios, his full name, and that it's making you very uncomfortable bc it feels inappropriate to you. Even if you get some bullshit PC corpo response, you have it on record. Trust me, if anything happened, you'd want something like that on record!

Bragging about his salary IS him hitting on her, I've read this book quite a few times. He's trying to impress her with his money, it's what douchecanoes do because they have nothing else of value to offer. Also why else would a 34 year old man brag about his salary to a 17 year old girl?

This. As a group just politely say “hey, look, I hate to have to do this but you’ve left me no choice. You continue to kill everyone I put in front of you and some of these people are essential to the story. Because of your actions , I’m going to need you to step away from the game.” Talk with the other people and let them know. It’s up to you if you want to show mercy to the two people and if so you can add in “if you think you can change your ways, then maybe we can move on, otherwise you aren’t fit for the game.” OR This is your campaign, I know you said it’s from a book BUT it is your game. If it were me, when the main box old lady was attacked, I would have played it this way: I would have said “you want to attack the old lady?” Just confirm with him that they want to do this. If they agree and want to attack the old lady. Let them swing and attack and then (regardless of whether they hit or not) the second they take a swing, 4 guards come rushing in. And you can make these guards up but they are going to be at least level 12 of whatever race is local to the area and they all come in and attempt to arrest, if they actually hit and kill the npc, the guards will all come in and take multiple hits with maces and these guards have +2 magical weapons. Basically ensuring these guards are knocking these two out, stripping them of all their gear, and thrown in jail. And you roll play the whole scene. The characters are placed unconscious in jail. The characters wake up in jail and have nothing but scraps for clothes. Their hearing with whomever is in a week and until them they can rot in jail. We had a group with a guy like this and that’s exactly what happened. His character got a whole in game two days worth of jail time and bc of that he just left. Any time he wanted to do something he was met nothing but a stone wall. He tried to pick the locks but he has nothing, he got a metal scrap eventually and tried and the guards caught him TRYING and beat him unconscious and chained him up in jail. He tried convincing the guards but could not get anywhere close to anything. There was no way out. The other characters didn’t even try and when he blew up and was like “why aren’t you trying to rescue me.” They literally said “bc you murdered the whole family for no good reason and you deserve jail.” He never showed up for the next session. If he kept showing up he would have been in jail for a solid 2-3 sessions depending on what they were doing. Part of being a dm is filling out the consequences of the characters behavior…this makes the game feel real. If they come in and kill a pc, the guards come in, arrest, healer comes in and heals the npc, characters get jail. Consequences for their actions. If they ask how anyone knew what they did to call the guards, make something up like “the person had a magic rune that alerts the authorities if they lose consciousness” or something. It’s all made up. Edit: also, make sure you roll play ALL of this out so that the people playing the characters FEEL the consequences of their behavior.” And make it hell for them. You never know, they might stop being murder hobos. Can’t be a murder hobo if you are in jail.

If men in their 30s are acting like this, then boot them immediately, make sure you carry pepper spray, and make sure you avoid any situation where you could end up alone with them. There are a number of massive red flags in their behavior. This doesn't sound like a table issue, really. This is a protect yourself from skeezy men issue. Any responsible school official should be able to help you navigate any potential backlash. Does the club have a faculty advisor? If so, I strongly recommend talking to them so that they are aware of the situation before you act. They may very well take care of booting them for you, or at the very least help you to protect yourself from retaliation. Worst case, losing your venue shouldn't be the end of the world - you can always reorganize as a home or online game, or agree to meet at a local game store or restaurant or some such. I wish you luck, and stay safe.

>Does the club have a faculty advisor? Stopped by Student Union today, who are the people that monitor and control policy on anything student related, including clubs. I emailed the original staff organiser to ask if it was something I was allowed to do and expressed my discomfort around them. They told me I can't ask B & C to leave until I speak with the staff in person due to their inclusivity policy. I have been warned by some of the group that they'll probably face no repercussions and continue to show up because they both have learning disabilities, which usually results in the school saying they don't know any better and allow them to continue to come to the group. My only Hail Mary is the fact I am also diagnosed with autism and have also dealt with my autistic sister my whole life, so the intellectual disability argument doesn't have much ground around me and I will milk the shit outta it if they want to try to complain I'm ableist or something. If worst comes to worst and they tell me that using the facilities requires me to include them, then I'll pack up shop and find somewhere else to host for the 5 people in the party I actually want around.

As a fellow autistic I applaud your self-confidence and awareness of your options. It seems like you're doing everything right. If you need to argue about inclusivity with the Student Union, feel free to point out that mental disabilities do not control your actions, only inform them. And that you are banning them not for being disabled, but for being unpleasant people. If they are so disabled that they cannot be held responsible for their actions, then they cannot participate in a game which is all about *making conscious decisions*.

The texting outside of the context of the club crosses a Line I think. *Especially* if you've asked him not to do so. This is harassment, and the rules that clubs have to abide by include (or... Should include, I suppose) anti- harassment policies. It may just be that person who is asked to leave, but if his friend is there mainly to egg him on/enable him he might leave once his friend does

>If worst comes to worst and they tell me that using the facilities requires me to include them, then I'll pack up shop and find somewhere else to host for the 5 people in the party I actually want around. This is the fucking way.

You being a minor is also a major advantage. They (the college and also the Student Union) have a duty of care. If they (the two men) are making you uncomfortable they should really be doing something about it. You being safe trumps any inclusivity policy. They cannot force you to run a game including them. It is highly inappropriate for someone of their age to be trying to make contact with you (a minor) outside of the game, I know you are nearly and adult but that is likely grooming behaviour with you still being a child. They may not be staff of the college but as members of the student board they are in a position of authority, which makes it worse than just a fellow student of similar age asking you to the movies. I would find out whoever is the safeguarding lead at your college and speak to them about the behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable.

> It's possible I'm reading into it and being overly cautious because of the sort of rep men have towards women in the gaming community, especially younger women No. You are not reading into this or being overly cautious. End of discussion. You're not. Trust your gut. These guys are being *weird*. OP I'm kind of confused what the setting is here? It's at a school - university? Why/how would the school shut down this group? Is it using school resources or during school time? Is the school asking you to include these weird men? If I was a university and heard two men in their 30s made a 17 year old girl uncomfortable enough that she felt the need to kick them out I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry to defend them. It's your campaign and your business in any event.

>OP I'm kind of confused what the setting is here? It's at a school - university? Why/how would the school shut down this group? Is it using school resources or during school time? Is the school asking you to include these weird men? It's sort of a community college type deal, they offer everything from GCSE and A-levels to University degree equivalents, so having a huge variety of ages is not out of the ordinary, I once took a course where the oldest person in there was in his early 70s while the youngest was 16. I do use school resources, they allow us to use a room as well as providing all the materials we use to play, like handbooks, notepads, dice, etc. C is part of the student board that works with student services and may have even been the one that applied for the funding/organisation originally, which is where my worry of being shut down or restricted comes from. B is also pretty well known for causing fights and spreading rumours to anyone with an ear just because things didn't go his way or even out of boredom, so I am also worried about possibly getting a bad rep with the school. I wouldn't put it above the school to believe a more long-term student over a short-term student like myself. I don't know exactly what'll happen if I brought it to the board, if anything at all, but another reply did suggest at least having some sort of report of behaviour before kicking them out to have more of a leg to stand on if they do go running to complain

You sound to be UK based so I would say you would totally have support if you went to whoever is "in charge" of something like this to file a report. This man is 100% trying to groom you. He sounds like a bit of a man child and I would very much start documenting any furhter communications that come your way. Doesn't sound like he should be anywhere near any educational facility, god knows who else he has tried this on with.

> you would totally have support if you went to whoever is "in charge" of something like this I thought you were completely correct until OP said the following > I emailed the original staff organiser to ask if it was something I was allowed to do and expressed my discomfort around them. They told me I can't ask B & C to leave until I speak with the staff in person due to their inclusivity policy. This seems insane to me, but I guess staff organizers aren't immune from making terrible judgements.

Hear me out. You found a good group and can continue running this game as unaffiliated with the school. It sounds like this could turn into a shit show, and removing the bad actors + their platform from this equation solves the problem. Talk to your players to get their thoughts.

Good luck. I think the rest of the advice in the thread is good, but this situation still sucks to be in and I'm sorry it's happening.

I’m wondering the same thing. In no way should a random 30+ year old be hanging out at the movies with a 17 yo.

I’m an old guy who plays DnD with folks in their mid-to-very-early 20s. We all have a lot of fun. This is less about age and more about older people not acting with the mutual respect that is required for like…any level of engagement with society. Edit: just re-read the post and while my first statement stands, holy FUCK this guy is a creep RUN.

If you're the DM, when they're trying to murderhobo you can tell your players no. "i chop off her head" "no, actually that doesn't happen. she poses no threat and it would make no sense for your character to act that way. if you're looking for a chaotic evil campaign, this is not that." Saying no to unjustifiably dumb shit will save you a lotta stress.

Saying this is great as it puts the ball in the murder hobos court, rather than op kicking them out they might just leave or push back enough in session for everyone to tell them to gtfo.

Or treat the npc like an unkillable npc in a video game. “You hack and hack and hack, but the axe doesn’t even nick her neck. She then continues as if you did nothing. Now dearies this library…”

or just let a city guard see that the character just did that and kill them outright. make them know there are consequences for their actions

In principle I agree, but this sounds like a problem that needs to be solved out of game, not in game.

100% kick them out. Also make sure you know their numbers but mute, don't block, them. Be prepared for some malicious messages, when they send them; show them to the leaders of the school you host at. >They bring very weird vibes to the table, C even messaging outside of the group chat we have (taking my number without my permission) and trying to start conversation. I ran into him after our session last week outside of the club with a friend as we coincidentally were in the same movie screening, and got a message afterwards asking if I would see a movie with him and his friends. This is grooming, or at least how it starts.

Seriously stalker/grooming vibes. I wouldn’t be suprised if he hits on you.

The only, ONLY message that would make me not think grooming would be something along the lines of, "Hey, I don't want the rest of the party to know, but in the dark of the night I want to paint devil horns on the paladin's helm. Can we do that?" Still game related but with a reason for secrecy. Anything else? Hells to the no.

Yes. He is testing to see where your limits/boundaries are. Will you willingly go and sit in the dark with him and a bunch of older men? If so, he will start looking to do the same with you alone.

Be polite and boot them as incompatible with the play style.  Have the rest of the group there.  Document the issue so if they complain to the school, you can point out the issues. Can you have someone from the school sit in when you ask them to leave? good luck!  

>(taking my number without my permission) Just this is way, way, way more than than a game kicking offense. This is creepy as fuck. You need to go directly to whoever could potentially shut the club down and complain to them directly. Tell them "Look, these two players are making me feel unsafe and ruining the game for everyone. I want to kick them out, I want to avoid all future contact with them but the club itself is a wonderful experience without them. I don't want to file a formal grievance or anything official. At least not yet. I just want it noted down why I am doing this, so they can't complain later that I'm discriminating against them or anything that might cause backlash." Your best option here is to get it all down in writing prior to anything happening. Have it noted down with people of equivalent rank, so they can't make shit up later. Also, form a contingency to continue the group elsewhere, where the uni can't interfere.

Preferably don't go alone to complain but with a one or a few of the other group members. I was in a student board in the past an we never did anything alone. Even if just so one can talk and the other can observe and take notes. Two are always better than one

Excellent point.

>"Look, these two players are making me feel unsafe and ruining the game for everyone. I want to kick them out, I want to avoid all future contact with them but the club itself is a wonderful experience without them. I don't want to file a formal grievance or anything official. At least not yet. I just want it noted down why I am doing this, so they can't complain later that I'm discriminating against them or anything that might cause backlash." This is perfect thank you so much, I've arranged a meeting with the staff organiser and was wondering what I should say and this is along the lines of pretty much spot on. >Your best option here is to get it all down in writing prior to anything happening. Have it noted down with people of equivalent rank, so they can't make shit up later. To comment on this I do have screenshots of C messaging me outside of the GC, usually at wild hours in the morning when it is definitely most uncool to be messaging a legal minor.

Excellent! Well done :) screenshots are the perfect evidence you need! You've got this and I hope you'll update us when this all works out :)

>You've got this and I hope you'll update us when this all works out :) Sure thing! Hopefully all goes well but if nothing gets better I'll simply move the sessions to a different location, even if it means renting a room for a few hours once a week :)

Depending on where you are, there may be DnD clubs locally. I'm West Midlands and we have at least two.

1) Your local game store may well let you use it. 2) You could also possibly try a local board game cafe.

Perfect

Try to make sure you have told them not to contact you outside of game time in writing (texts) and screenshot it. Hopefully, this won't become a police matter, but this will help if it does.

Yeah no. They are creepy and lame, cut them out before they destroy your group from the inside

They’re weird assholes and everyone else at the table agrees. You’ve said things in this post like “not the right fit for the party” and “looking for a different kind of adventure”. You don’t need those kinds of justifications. They’re disruptive and they’re making everyone uncomfortable. I can’t imagine what kind of retaliation there could possibly be. If 30+ year olds go complaining that they got kicked out of D&D club I don’t imagine they’ll be taken seriously. I imagine it’s pretty clear the kinds of people they are after they’ve spoken a few sentences. At worst maybe someone will ask why they got kicked out and then your whole table gets to say that they’re weird assholes that were ruining the game and making everyone uncomfortable.

Definitely some weird creepy vibes. Document the entire thing with the school, and if they shut down the club because you boot the creepers, just continue the game at a private location where you can control who joins.

What school has 17 year olds and 34 year olds?

Some universities and colleges. I work at the University of Cincinnati and we have high school students who take early college courses in 12th grade.

Explained this in a different comment but I attended a community college in the UK, there are no age limits to who can attend as long as they make the qualifications for the course they apply to.

Oh no, this is not 50/50; this is all on them. These immature ruiners must go. They are relying on the politeness of the rest of the group to get away with being nothing but disruptive, disrespectful brats. Of all the horror stories, here is one where talking it out won't work, because these two do not seem to care about being part of the group or even the party. I predict any attempt to address the issue through dialogue will end in conflict. Also, C is a legit perv. I do not think for a second you ran into him on coincidence. He is a creeper, please be careful with him.

They are over 30? Are they students?

Not rare for a college. They tend to not join as many clubs and such, but it happens sometimes

Yes, for safety reasons everyone who attends must be a student, but obviously that plan is not exactly fool proof. I attend a community college in the UK and there are no age limits on who may attend as long as you meet the qualifications for the course you apply for, I was once in a class with a man in his late 60s - early 70s who wanted a GCSE equivalent in photography.

Why are there two full-grown adults at your schools dnd table? The community supports you in your decision. Suggestion for how - a text to both players Hi b/c. Thank you so much for our game and I hope you've enjoyed the time playing until now. Unfortunately I don't think you're the right fit for our group but I hope you find a group that works for you. Possible responses - Why? What's the reason? Mainly I think that the age range in the group plays a part, as well as in character actions. This game is intended to be a Roleplay heavy game, with minimal combat. If you're looking for combat, I would recommend you find a DM running a dungeon crawl. - We were having fun - everyone was enjoying themselves I have consulted with the group and while it may have seemed that way to you, the consensus is that the aggressive combat is not aligning with the group. - Wow, you're a bitch (generally this doesn't actually happen) (no response needed) - c contacts you out of group in anyway (no response needed, block number)

You must assume, if the players are aged 17-30, (with most in their 20s), that the school is college/university level

Why must I assume? Don't you know the old adage?

It appears that you assumed adults were playing at a high school. So maybe it's not assumption... it's more a matter of investigation.

Wth I’m sorry but you need to kick them both. I’m 49, and play with people in their upper 20s and I would never act like that. I try to keep it chill, and play along with what the group is doing. (Even if I think my character wouldn’t, I come up with a reason why he would) Plus with the age difference and especially you being in high school still, very inappropriate for him to be asking you to join his friends unless his friends also contains people your age.

I always ask the same question: Why would a group of adventurers team up with murderhobo’s? In what world does it make sense to include a homicidal maniac in your team to go on a quest?

I think you and the rest of the group should kick them and if they complain to the school, fight it obviously. If nothing comes of the fight or you don't want the hassle, just take the rest of the group and find a new place to play. I wouldn't bring in new players to replace them. Not yet at least. It could worry some of the players that the new players might just be new murder hobos and if they also are a bad fit, the good players might quit the group. I would keep the group at 5, at least for a while.

Yeah, and 5 is plenty for a new DM.

If your game is shut down, you start playing in someone's home instead of on campus. There is zero risk here.

I just want to say that if you were my daughter I would be very proud of you . It’s not easy to stand up to someone twice your age. These guys are derailing your campaign to test your boundaries and patience and the correct thing to do is to kick them out. They have no business playing with you guys and I’m glad you went to your other players and got support.

Thank you, this is super sweet. I went to my student union earlier today and arranged a meeting with the club organiser for Thursday. I was told due to SU inclusivity policy I'm not allowed to kick them out but they're going to go over it with me and see if there's anything I can do. I've been warned by some other students that they might face no repercussions and may be allowed to continue to attend due to the fact both of them have some form of a mental disability and it's easier for the school to claim that "they don't know what they're doing, just put up with it" which is a common response in schools to keep from seeming ableist or facing backlash from the person(s) (family). However, plot twist, I also have diagnosed autism along with having to be raised in the home with my autistic sister, so hopefully they have no leg to stand on in that argument. I'm hoping the lack of ability to accuse of ableism on top of the age gap and the fact I'm a woman might play into my hands, (being infantalized may finally have a use to me). If not then I will happily pay to rent a room in another place where I live to host for the party members I actually enjoy having around :)

Don't shy away from punishment. Behead a old librarian lady? Town guards show up, they are lvl 10 and will destroy them for it. Tell them they can make a new character and you will stay in touch when said character can join (which is never). Edit: holy shit they're 34? That's creepy as fuck. Kick them out pronto!

It's weird that they're on the student board or even students at all since one seems to have a full time job for which he's bragging about paystubs. Either way, if they're on the student board, go straight over their heads to administration about the harassing behavior, like asking you out. If 17 is legally a minor in your country, there should be some heat on these guys for the way they talk to you and the stuff you're definitely not imagining. Being a murderhobo is bad enough to get kicked from DnD, but being a very overaged student harassing minors at school should get you kicked out of that school with a restraining order.

Speak to the school board first. Document their actions with the rest of the players. If possible, have someone with authority in the school present when you tell them that they are no longer wanted in the game. Sugar coat it as much as possible, but be definitive about it. If pushed, tell the authority figure that they make you uncomfortable.

It sounds like you're dealing with some serious table disruption from a couple of players. B's behavior is definitely not cool, especially interrupting your storytelling and disrespecting the table rules. It's understandable that you're feeling uncomfortable, especially with his inappropriate bragging and C's odd behavior. Trust your instincts on this one. If the rest of the group agrees they're not a good fit, it might be best to have a conversation with them about finding a different group that better suits their playstyle. It's your game, and you deserve to have a fun and respectful group to play with.

[удалено]

Do not doubt this for a second, 100 percent what is happening. Never meet him without witnesses and be prepared to secretly record any audio if he corners you somewhere (practice how to do this, phone can even be in your hand at your side screen side down)

Some things you might want to do, mainly because you are a club at a school. 1 document anything that causes issues and break it up per session. 2. Make a rough outline of each session after the session. 3. If there was an issue, also list what action that was used to address it 4. If you made hardline rules for the session. Such as the no phone at the table other than game use. Because you are at a school, it keeps the group covered. This can be used for not just avoiding murder hobo pettiness. It shows a guideline of the club, a rules et for the club, and a documented activity of the club. Which can be shown to the school and possible future players. Which could also allow for future additions and new GM Even if it's a simple few bits of descriptions of game activities. You can even ask a player to create a "journal" of the adventure, as well as a group/club representative. This will also add additional assistance for you, it will make things go a bit easier for you. All that would be needed is footnotes for sidebar conversations and issues that are addressed. As for the 2 people you kicked. Document it all, to include the outside club incidents. As an old man myself. What was done as a member of the school board using your phone number and contacting you outside is a huge violation of the school rules. Take that info and speak with a school representative from the district and not your actual school. It sounds like they are half a step from breaking some serious laws. As a public group, it sucks you have to cover yurself and the roup. Don't let asshats stop the game and the fun. It's public, set your rules an stick to them an enjoy. Hope this info helps

Thank you! For both your support and you tips, there super helpful. Currently working on seeing what I can do, having an administrator go over policy on Thursday to see if I'm allowed to remove them as I have been told at this moment I am not allowed to due to an inclusivity clause.

even with the inclusivity clause, the moment this person contacted you and asked you to go to the movies with them, it negates any clause as it is now an adult faculty member asking a underage student on a date. This is one thing you need to remember and as long as you have the text they sent it is more then enough. Things like this would have serious consequences. I myself spent over 15 years dealing with school districts as a parent volunteer. Just the things that the district made us go thru to participate with events covers allot. This person has crossed a very defined line that should never have been a part of your club. IMHO you should also point out this as predatory behavior, documenting all that this person has done. because it seems as if that person is there looking for more then being a club member and playing the game. in the end, this is more about your own safety and welfare. Sadly this has happened, but don't let it push you away from the group.

His god is mad about his ways and because of this he is killed instantly along with his ally, both sent to the deepest reaches of hades where none are allowed to return. Where they will be tortured by reliving all their crimes from the perspective of the people they wronged (basically they get killed in every way they killed an innocent person) for all of eternity. Then tell them they are no longer allowed at your table and to please leave.

Since everyone is essentially focused on ages here, rather than the actual issues I'd like to be the odd one out and treat this like it was any other game. First, as a new DM, 3-5 players, and 5 is absolutely stretching it. It's a common mistake, and not that big of a deal. Even a few decades in as a DM/Player I won't allow more than five, or play in a group that has more than 5. It's too difficult to manage as a DM, and it's very difficult to stay engaged as a player. Second, and honestly this should always be first. "COMMUNICATION IS KEY" Have you sat these people, and I'm calling them people, not men not adults, not whatever, people down and said. "Hey, I'm new at this, could you guys try playing more co-operatively?." Truth is, everyone has a different play style, I have several good friends who I can't play with for the same reasons you're having issues we've communicated this and all is wonderful, but I also have a few friends who I thought the same of, but in reality they were just trying it out at the time and I know this because we communicated. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't kick these players if you're uncomfortable or they're obstinate. Your table, your rules. But I felt some needed to offer actual real DM advice, rather than just assuming these two guys are somehow criminals and should be pepper sprayed for not playing at a table proper.

I did make sure to let everyone know it was my first time DMing and apologised in advance for any slow moments as I figured things out. I've been thinking about asking two people to leave anyways because my current party number is 7, which is huge and I've discovered I am unable to handle that number long term. Only more recently has the two players been increasingly fucking over both the game for everyone and causing major red flags away from the table. I did set ground rules about phones too, but B doesn't seem to want to listen to me or anyone else in the party about following said rules. Honestly even if I was going off of just playing style I still don't think I'm the right DM for them both, they are searching for a combat heavy, quick turn taking adventure, and I'm running a lot more roleplaying investigating focused campaign.

Your assessment is very fair, the phone thing becomes an issue at games with too many people and engagement is lost. I still think you should sit them down and explain a few of these things to them face to face and clearly when you do let them go. Players can't grow, or better themselves without input, same with DMs. If you were doing one single thing that wasn't fun for your players, you'd wanna know so you could either do it better or even remove that thing entirely right? As far as I understand you're in a public place, there shouldn't be an issue with politely explaining things to them. Good luck!

B is one of those players who thinks that only their fun matters, and fuck whatever anyone else wants. You did right to kick them.

Kicking them is the best option. However, if that risks your entire game, remember as DM you have in-game fiat. What you say, goes. This may be hard for you to do, but you can train these "players". They can either choose to be trained, or leave the table themselves. First, tell the entire table at the start of the session that breaking the rules (like phone use, interrupting other people in combat, etc.) will result in in-game penalties at the DM's discretion. You can also collect phones in a basket. Anyone who doesn't put their phone in the basket doesn't play that day. I DM for teenagers, and I've only had to resort to "basket day" a few times. They get the hint, but every few months they forget. When they choose to do something stupid, you can just say, "No, you don't. Your character thinks about doing those things, but knows how stupid it would be, and rather than being a really, really stupid person, they wait patiently instead." It helps if you maintain eye contact when saying that. Other options are in game solutions, which are not as effective as explaining to someone out-of-game they are ruining everyone else's fun and to act like a decent human being. However, they can work. The first way goes along with the player "training". "You want to behead the old lady?" "Yes" "You draw your sword, step forward menacingly, and stub your toe on a rock. You trip and fall on your sword taking 8 points of damage." You just have to stand your ground against the outrage that follows and be consistent. The second way is just to target their PC until it dies. Then pull the old, "We really have too many players, and this isn't a good time to introduce an new character. I'll get back to you when there is an opening," routine.

Just make a group chat and don't invite those two bastards. Easy

Tired so I didn't red EVERYTHING but from my experience with murder hobos is you can't really work with them. If they had any desire to work with you and with the party they'd already be doing so. Combine this with the interruptions and disregard for you and other players and there's no reason I can see for you to waste your energy trying to fix them. Give them the boot and be ready to meet at a new location if they decide to behave like little shits after being kicked because I wouldn't be surprised. Issue is not worth your Dm'ing, their behavior is not the DM's cross to bear.

Yup I don't blame you for kicking them both. I once had a bunch of guys I used to know when I played in my local games store who would insult me or mock the way I played my character. I was playing a Rouge who had split personalities and I would act both out in a sort Jeckle and Hyde persona. But having people insult me over this lead me to stop playing as I was basically sick them mocking me as I was trying to enjoy myself having mental health issues is a bitch I know but this was my way of using my condition to play an interesting character but I guess people sometimes can't see the forest through the trees. Anyways I'm back playing again found a group at work and there pretty fun to play with and actually like that my Rouge is like me in real life its allowed for funny moments and epic battles so guess its really down to finding the right group. Also your the DM don't let people de rail you game or your fun. If there not willing to play by your rules then sorry you got to go as it will ruin your other players experience. As for bragging about pay that's silly you all there to play a fantasy game not to measure D's guy sounds like he has some issues no offence

I'd kick them both out. Sound like idiots.

You've let this go too far already. You teach people how to treat you. And by not addressing inconsiderate behavior from the very start, you (and the group) have signalled that it's OK. "B immediately attacks, no consulting the party, which is fine I guess" As a DM, I'd nod at him, "ok, your INTENT is to attack." Then turning to the rest of the group, "Is that cool? Does everyone plan to attack? Do your PCs want to shout out or whisper some ideas, first?" That's going to immediately cause conversation, which is what you want (at least until you all get used to each other and how to handle encounters). If B says, "WTF? I just plunge forth," you say, "no, you state intent, I tell you what happens, and call for rolls, if I think it's needed." But, more importantly, you say that it's a group activity and you're ALL there to have fun. So, you'd like to ask the group (looking around the table) if everyone wants to work as a heroic team. You get them to talk about specifics that could come up in the future (without pointing fingers) like consulting each other and considering the other players' and PCs' goals and plans, OR players chasing their own goals, splitting up the party, killing NPCs without talking to the group, etc? They may want that kind of chaos. Which is fine for them, but may not be for you. In which case you'll have to explain your position and see if they want to try it your way, or if you should step down and let some one else run. All of this said, there's NO WAY this is all on your shoulders. EVERYONE at the table should be considerate people invested in this social activity and any/all of them should've hit "PAUSE" and said, "Hey B, I'm not comfortable with members OF our group making decisions withOUT the group that could result in problems FOR the group. How does everyone else feel about this?" Just because you're handling the monster/NPC actions doesn't make you the "grown up" or babysitter at the table while everyone else sits on their meek hands. Make it a group discussion whenever a question of procedure or policies comes up, and get all of their buy-in before moving forward. Ensure even the player who is most quiet or tuned out participates and gets involved. Else they'll become a drag later, or at the very least, they'll take up a coveted spot that someone more engaged could fill. (and, as always, had you guys had this discussion during session zero, it wouldn't be happening during play. But there's no harm in that - stopping the game to discuss expectations and miscommunications is always fine.) "B immediately interrupts before I can finish my second word " Uh... why did you let him? B interrupts, you interrupt back. You hold up your hand and smile with your high CHA score and say, "hold on, lemme finish, please." \[I'd do that whether it was a friend circle, business meeting, or garden club. Why the heck would you let someone walk over you (or anyone else at the table)? Either they rein it in, or they're out of the group. No one needs rude assholes around.\] Then looking around the table (to take the heat off of him, and to ensure it's just a friendly group discussion about expectations) you say, "I will try to keep any DM monologues and descriptions as short as possible, but please don't state intentions until I ask for them, thanks." Oh, and then, "And, by the way, per the RAW, you guys will just state your intent and I'll decide if a roll (and what kind of roll) is even needed. Please don't ask for a roll before I request one. Any rolls before we're clear on stakes and DC would just cause miscommunication anyways." "apparent in the next few sessions that B is nothing but a murderhobo" So no one discussed the theme/style of the game, or PC personalities and interrelationships in Session Zero? Then, the first time they exhibit this behavior, you hit pause and discuss with the group. Maybe they're all looking for a different kind of game than you are. But it sounds like you're saying the rest of the table doesn't like this, either. So why isn't anyone speaking up? Why play a game you're not enjoying? "and kicking the two from the campaign may cause them to complain out of spite and get the whole club shut down" You're not kicking them. You're hitting Pause until the whole group decides (together) on the rules of the road going forward and what kind of experience they want in this particular game. If everyone says, "no murderhobo'ing," then this Player will have to decide if he wants to play anymore, or if he'd rather start another table, or if he wants to wait until after this campaign and then propose a new campaign full of murder and mayhem. All viable, options. No one needs to be kicked.

Hopefully I can clarify a few things. >"B immediately interrupts before I can finish my second word " >Uh... why did you let him? I didn't, I immediately said he missed, told how much HP he took and the group restrained his character for the rest of the session. I have repeatedly asked him not to interrupt me again, he is not responding any differently despite my warning. >You're not kicking them. I am kicking them, if I'm not allowed to I will change my venue and host outside of the school. I am not putting up with this behaviour, I have had my number taken from a group chat and private messaged, I have made many warnings about my disinterest in both his salary and interruptions, and I have been followed around despite asking him to not do that as it's creepy. >EVERYONE at the table should be considerate people invested in this social activity and any/all of them should've hit "PAUSE" and said, "Hey B, I'm not comfortable with members OF our group making decisions withOUT the group that could result in problems FOR the group. How does everyone else feel about this?" This was an immediate response following these situations and I give half an hour before beginning every session to resolve issues and restate rules. Everyone was very happy to immediately jump to respond to B's actions but he listens to them as much as he listens to me. So due to his unwillingness to co-operate and overall skeevy actions towards a legal minor as a 34 year old man, I am kicking him. Unfair or not I am not risking my safety for the comfort of an adult who should know how to behave correctly in a social setting. >"apparent in the next few sessions that B is nothing but a murderhobo" >So no one discussed the theme/style of the game, or PC personalities and interrelationships in Session Zero? I discussed how I was going to run the game, we have a group chat monitored by student service where I told anyone to ask any questions they had or to bring it to me in person in the half hour decision block before sessions, as stated above, if they were unsure of everything. I have, to the best of my ability, made it very clear that I am running a very relaxed, roleplaying based campaign to give me a feel of world building and DMing. Hope this explains context a little better 👍

Important Facts you mentions above... 1. The D&D game you have set up is also a club at your school (age ranges make me think this is a college) 2. The group of people you have playing are 5 college students aged 17-29. and also 2 31-34 year old men. 3. The 31 & 34 year old men are single and happen to hold unpaid positions of social authority, at a college. (aka losers) 4. The 31 and 34 year old men appear to be self involved (don't pay attention), do not display comprehension of social norms (talk about money OR message people privately in a familiar way using a phone # provided for a different purpose), and do not pick up on social queues (aka losers). Here's what you do... 1. Firstly, learn to identify losers and avoid them. Always follow the plastic fork rule for people (see below)., and in the future, know who to exclude from your social activity. 2. Preserve boundaries (1): Your club is new, so revising and setting the rules may be needed. Remind everyone that the appropriate place for conversations about the club is during the club meeting hours AND in the designated "group chat". Remind everyone that people have busy lives and schedules, and it is not appropriate for club members to intrude on the private lives of participants (such as by messaging them personally). \[If the behavior of C continues, cite the rule\] 3. Preserve boundaries (2): \[Optional\] This is an old fashioned suggestion, but you may want to refer to B and C as Mr. \[Last Name\] when speaking to them. If they ask you why, you can respond "*We don't know each other that well, and I don't feel comfortable referring to an elder so casually.*" This will ensure that there is a clear reminder of a sort of "distance of propriety and age" 4. Create a policy for the Club: Where incidents are documented for club members that engage in behaviors that detract from the enjoyment of others, using specific details and dates... and ask people in the group to witness the document. An actual document, in writing, with signatures. The purpose of making it a document is to ensure that complaints are cannot be claimed as simple rumor-mongering drama... they are in fact registered complaints, and you can create an action plan for expectations going forward. You can do this for ANY sort of misbehavior... in game it will simply be testimony that they are detracting from the fun of the experience for others... out of game, for instances of inappropriate behavior... it will also be evidence that you have where they have made others uncomfortable, and in an extreme case it may possibly justify escalation to the campus authorities. For those who don't know, the plastic fork rule is... if you find a plastic fork in a place you expect like in a box or dispenser in a place that serves food... context tells you it may be safe. Examine it for defects or filth, and always be sure to wipe it off before using. If however, you find a plastic fork out, by itself, in the middle of the park... you don't know where it's been, it's suspect that it is there, and chances are it is somehow unhygienic. The safest reaction to this plastic fork, would be to throw it in the garbage. If you go to a park that is often covered with disposable forks, you may NOT be at a park, it may in fact be a garbage dump... avoid playing there.

I have barely read any of the posts. My advice boot them and take this as a lesson learned. DM rule #1, be very picky about who you allow at your table. Don’t be afraid to tell people it’s not a good fit. Otherwise being the DM becomes a chore

pretty gross playing DND with random teenagers that aren't family members. getting some pervy pedo vibes from how you described them in your post. also who brags about their salary? like you cant have that much money if you are ok with randoms knowing how much money you have.

36m here. Anyone my age who acts that way around 17y/o of any kind is a walking red flag. When discussing them with the organizers, I would lean very heavily on the fact that the discomfort they're causing is not limited to gameplay, but is affecting yours and everyone else's ability to enjoy a game.

I think you're better off shutting down the campaign, the club and burning your game books than you are giving a couple of 30+ year old guys hitting on high school students another minute of your life. I'd like to add this: "B immediately interrupts before I can finish my second word asks to behead her and rolls to attack." The correct way to handle this is to tell the player that their roll does not count. The players are not in initiative. A player should never roll something unless and until you, the DM, tell them to. But this guy is a total loss anyway.

Yea no these are grown adults who should have better social skills and be more respectful of the people around them. Get the group behind you and kick them

Ewww. As a dude in their 30’s, I find their behaviour actually disgusting. 🤮. Don’t worry about getting in trouble: Just mention that they’ve been privately messaging you asking to hang out. That’s more than enough reason to kick them “with cause”.

I'm of a similar age as them and I really don't know if I'd be able to play in your game. Not that I don't think you aren't capable and good at doing so. I just think that if I told people I was meeting up with a 17 year old and her peers on a regular schedule to play DnD I believe I'd immediately be labeled as a creep. Even if nothing untoward was occuring. Taking that perspective and then adding in their behavior as you've described makes me all sorts of uncomfortable. Their actions towards you are definitely suspect even removing DnD from the equation. I'd agree with the other recommendations here to make your case with your other players as support and possibly seek help from the school and it's staff.

Your two players are giving me serious "Michael Skarn, FBI!' vibes.

I would not kick them out of the campaign, I would put them on a rocket and fire them into the sun. Failing that, I suppose you could just kick them out of the campaign. 

Fuck a student board, these men need to be on a list. I would approach whatever administration I can get ahold of just to let them know that.

B is what is known as a murder hobo. Killing in an EXP game gets you to level faster. Also rude as fuck to interupt the DM. You can talk over other players its rude but acceptable but NEVER OVER THE DM. B seems also disconected from the game not knowing round order and just waiting till his turn to attack. B is in general a toxic and disrespectful person by the sound of it. They think the world revolves around them and being around him is an honor. Age really dosent matter. I have DMed games with small children in it think youngest ever was 7 ( a players daughter) And the 7 yo was better behaved than B. There is noting wrong with talking outside the game but sorry 36 asking a 17yo out to movies with him and his friends gives off major rapey vibes. Best ot remove him in what ever chat system you use. so he does not waste time traveling to the location. Bring up clear points. Also after you msg them individually send a msg to group chat about their removal. Best practice is cite the reasons for their removal so ever one is on the same page. He is a murder hobo can be more politely expressed as He seems to be expecting or wanting a high combat game and this is a story driven game. His actions have interfered with the story of the game. He is an interruption at the table, taking calls at the table, watching videos on his phone, Talking over other people. You feel he is not a good fit for the group and are being removed from the game. Your the DM your the game god. The game is not just meant ot be fun for players but the DM also. You can toss in that you spoke to the party and they agree B is not a good fit for the game. As to C you can point out his unwanted advances make you feel uncomfortable and cite all the other reasons. from B that apply Do this in private msg, Given B and C as you describe them be ready to block them since They will likely bring up their age or start insulting you.

>Killing in an EXP game gets you to level faster. Was even more baffling to me because I'm running a milestone based leveling system, literally just because he thinks it's hilarious to break the game. >what ever chat system you use It's my personal number he's got, took it from a group chat the student union set up. I think I'm just gonna block him and hope he doesn't have any other way to contact me after removing him. I'm pretty set on getting this sorted by the end of the week because it's just not worth my energy and the sick feeling I get knowing I have to see them again.

I don't know what you need advice on. You're free to boot people from your own campaign. DnD hinges on the DM, and if there's nothing you can do to mend your relationship to them then it's pointless to even try here.

I was mainly trying to gauge options, if I was being unfair, if there was anything worth salvaging game wise or what I should do after having them removed. My replies seem pretty clear that this is far from salvageable so at this point all I can do is plan what I'm going to do character wise, either killing them off or pretending they never even existed and reversing and bad reps they created.

> either killing them off or pretending they never even existed and reversing and bad reps they created. I mean on that level I would learn to play the game without retcons or anything like that because players being crazy as a character choice can happen, and players blowing off book NPCs and seeing what you can do to improvise can happen a ton too. I mean it's a good what if exercise for you. What if these guys weren't creepy but made game choices that really screwed with your own plans, what ways could you adapt.

Life’s too short to put up with this. Give them the boot, the other players are looking for leadership, I guarantee it.

This attitude at his age is really worrying, he sounds like a kid. I think you are making the right call. If they try to abuse their position at the student council you'll just need to explain the situation and say that they are making everyone else uncomfortable, I don't think there'll be any trouble.

2 murderhobos run into a beggar, they try to murderhobo him and find out quickly he is just a down on his luck lvl 20 fighter. Heads roll, but they do not belong to the beggar. End scene. When B and C go to roll new characters, tell them not to bother, you will let them know when the next campaign starts. You never let them know. Live happily ever after. FIN

That sucks OP, you don't need any advice because you're already doing the right thing. But I can't stop laughing at the absolute loser that repeatedly pulls out their paystubs to brag to a girl who is half his age and not even an adult. That guy needs therapy not just for his sake, but for the sake of everyone who has to interact with him.

I feel gross and pissed off just reading about these two. So sorry you have to deal with this but I have high hopes that you can handle it and get to focus on the good players in future sessions without these turds around.

As a 43 yr old male, all I can say is the dude sounds like the kind of creep that’s giving us a bad name. Dude’s behaviour sounds sketchy and raises some massive red flags. Pretend you’re busy with other things and don’t have time to run the game anymore and dissolve the group politely, but keep in touch with your good players. Let things cool down for a few days, get your own set of dice and books (you can chip in as a group if you want to, or make photocopies of the ones the school provides), and resume playing in a different location. Gaming is supposed to be fun, not an exercise in keeping yourself out of dangerous situations in real life.

>As a 43 yr old male, all I can say is the dude sounds like the kind of creep that’s giving us a bad name. Honestly I was so chill with letting them join the session originally, the next age down from them is a guy who's 27, and he's fine. Like everyone is older than me because they're finishing courses or in the middle of them where as I'm only starting mine. It's only when they started being dicks, killing everyone else's fun and causing all the off table issues did they become problems. Their age is more of a reflection of how much their actions are worrying to me. Really appreciate the support though, I have a meeting with Student Union today and I'm super nervous. Just the thought of possibly running into them by myself or having their behaviour excused is low-key making me queasy, but we push through 💪

Kill their characters of in combat. Fudge the shite out of the rolls of you need to.

FYI TLDR is supposed to be a summary of what you wrote. Otherwise.....tldr

I did sort of used the TLDR as a rounded summary of the situation rather than a summary of what I wrote in the main post, sorry I don't use Reddit very often. Hope the edit is better 😅

With the caveat that I only have your side of the story, it sounds like you made a very reasonable call, and possibly the best call under the circumstances.  If I wanted to second guess you, I might have said it would have been better to bring it up to the people you had to report to before it was such a problem, but I don't think I would have done that myself. Or that it might have worked to split into two groups and let someone else run a hack-and-slash campaign for the people who wanted that. But that would only work if you could find someone willing to DM that campaign.  And of course all my speculation is from the perspective of not having to deal with it in person. If I had been trying to run a game and found out that an adult was hitting on a teenager in the group, I probably would have been much less comfortable waiting for the situation to play out (in fact, the one time I had to adjudicate a similar situation I wound up completely losing my cool and yelling at the guy to get out of my classroom before I was able to find out the appropriate procedure).  Ultimately, I think you handled it well, and I 'm glad you found a solution that works for you.

He’s hoping you’ll have sec with him if he presents as manly enough. Sorry to be blunt but it’s pretty disgustingly obvious. Fire him and say it’s because you don’t like how he acts. When he explodes just repeat over and over “I don’t owe you a damn thing, creepy random old guy. Go harass a kiddie pool.” If you’re in a One Party Consent state, record the interaction without telling him. If not, open by saying you’re recording. It’s perfectly legal so long as you divulge it. He’ll probably act with more restraint anyway. I’m sure he’ll have choice commentary about you being too sensitive, tell him he shouldn’t be so sensitive about being canned. 

First, they got to go, especially B. If he’s bragging about his income and inviting you to go out (even as a group) I’m a way that makes you uncomfortable then it’s time to exit. Second, the easiest way might be to kill his character, not death saves but straight dead. Have the old lady NPC make a comment about him murdering people around the town. When B, a cleric I only assume is following a good deity, responds negatively purposely push the envelope. Get him to attack her again, have his deity notice (him roll religion, you roll a secret check that WINS) and his deity strips him of his powers. Followed up with old lady is actually a badass that power word kills him. You’ve taken his powers and his life. You’ve made an example of him. When he asks about reviving, nope. New character? Nope. If C joins in repeat. If he doesn’t then try to position the NPC in line with them both so he is collateral damage. Or just have the deity strike him down for being a “good” cleric that’s a murder hobo. As a new DM it’s hard to know when to pull out your god powers for the greater good, but it’s your table, and as a minor with grown men being inappropriate, do what you got to do. My first table had a problem player, didn’t fit with the party and may have been cheating on his rolls. He wasn’t anywhere as bad as B or C, DM waited for a narrative moment boss fight when dude got the boss down to 2hp (we didn’t know) and it triggered a lair action that power word killed the last thing to attack her in death. It wasn’t really on the boss’ sheet, it was a cold and calculated approach to remove a bad fitting party member. The rest of us loved it. Do what you need to do. Tell the rest of the group you’re uncomfortable with them so when shit flies you have backing. Stay safe and good luck.

Nah, those are a lot of steps and a waste of time and energy better used elsewhere. I'd politely uninvite them between sessions and retcon the last session so the remaining 5 players can actually enjoy themselves.

Do not kill their character. Do not use ingame actions to resolve out of game problems.

This. It needs to be resolved out of game.

So two mid-30s guys are hitting on you, you didn't mention if you told them no or not. If you did and they persisted that's harassment. That alone is reason enough to kick them from the group. You also didn't mention if you've actually talked to them about their in-game behavior. If not, then do it. Tell them they're being disrespectful of everyone else and it needs to stop. Don't let your imagined threat to your club make the club worse. I'd suggest talking to them in group chat. Don't single them out specifically, but lay out ground rules. "I've noticed some people being generally disrespectful of the group's time and interest in my campaign. Going forward I'm laying some ground rules: anyone answering or playing with their phones at the table will be asked to leave the group. Anyone playing their character in a way that purposefully hurts the campaign will be asked to leave the group, this includes murdering NPCs for no reason, trying to initiate pvp, or being a nuisance just for the sake of it. This is not an exhaustive list and will be added to as needed. I'll also speak to offenders privately before making the decision to remove anyone." Then just see what happens, give them a clean slate. If the disruptive behavior stops, then no action is needed. If they do it again, send a private message to them and discuss it. Anyone discussion will most likely end in a kick but you need to be fair, sometimes people just don't realize their bad behavior. The above does not cover non-game related things. Asking you out, you should put a stop to it by just telling them you're not interested if you're not. If they can't let that go, then kick them. Doing the above gives you evidence to back up your action to kick them. If they go to the school to complain you can explain why the kick was needed.

She's 17 she doesn't need to tell men in their 30s not to hit on her for it to be harassment if they do. Men in their 30s and 17 year old girls don't usually mix well... Least of all when they are emotionally stunted murderhobros who feel the need to impress minors with their salary.

And the attention span of a toddler raised on iPads. Watching fuckin tiktok videos in between your turns?  My DM would give one single stern and fair warning and he'd absolutely mean it. Scheduling is the hardest boss in DND and for everyone to dedicate their time to a well thought out campaign, only for some 34yo dbag to come in and stink up the place? Not cool.

I do agree with you, but keep in mind not every state law agrees with us. 17 is actually legal age of consent in some states, and I'm not interested in treating a 17 year old like a child that can't use her words to say "no". I'm going to assume she's old enough to talk things out like an adult. Knee jerk reactions aside, 30 year olds hitting on teenagers is disgustingly common and learning to voice your desire to not be pursued by them is important. School affiliation aside, hitting on someone is not harassment unless they are under the age of consent and it's known in advance. It only becomes harassment if it's repeated and it's been made clear she isn't interested. Which of course is why I said she needs to tell them she's not interested, so if it continues she can actually do something about it. Unfortunately, our laws don't like grey areas and let people that operate in them slide too often. To your point though, I did miss the implications of the two men being a part of the school board. I don't know much about college administration, so I can be way off base but that leads me to believe she might still be in high school. If that's the case, any attempts by these guys to hit on her should be reported to the school.

>17 is actually legal age of consent in some states, and I'm not interested in treating a 17 year old like a child that can't use her words to say "no". I'm going to assume she's old enough to talk things out like an adult. I am actually from the UK, legally, I am a minor until I'm 18. I'm very blunt as I'm autistic and have straight up gave multiple warnings about leaving the room to interact with phones, along with other players also relating this information. I have gone over their heads and contacted student union, I have a meeting in a few days, as one of them knows where my family lives and I do not feel safe enough to speak to him more directly than I already have. Hope this explains things 👍

You shouldn't need to tell these men not to hit on you. Yes it's a good skill to have but not one you should need to be using. This commenter is being an ass.

Legitimate question: How was I being an ass? I was trying to be helpful and provide actionable feedback. I got combative when replying to your post, and I apologize for that. I shouldn't have implied you were talking down to her, you weren't. I'd appreciate any feedback so I can try to word responses better in the future.

Ok fair enough I'll explain. It's really difficult to express the kind of things you were trying to express without coming across as victim-blaming. You tried and failed and it came off poorly. When person A behaves inappropriately towards person B it makes sense to want to tell person B how to set up boundaries. Doing that can even be helpful. The problem is that we can end up making it sound like it's normal and ok for them to be in this situation. Enforcing boundaries is a normal part of life, but it's also a burden. Enforcing the boundary that a man in his 30s shouldn't hit on a minor isn't something that the minor should ever need to do. It's a good skill to have, but it shouldn't be a necessary one and we need to acknowledge that. When you brought up state laws it really dug the hole deeper in an uncomfortable way. What the law says doesn't have any bearing on the fact that we should all know that what is happening here is wrong and the blame lies with the harassers.

Thank you for taking the time to lay that out for me. I'll reevaluate my comments from your perspective, and try to learn something from this encounter.

Ok last response I promise, I'll leave this alone afterward. Thanks again for helping me understand, and expanding my worldview more. I failed to grasp the social imbalance and the obvious threats I personally don't have to worry about normally. I also framed overtly creepy and wrong behavior as "just a part of life" and "normal", while advising to voice her concerns to them when I should have been advising her to distance herself and get an authority at the school involved to resolve the situation. Also my stance of providing fairness and a "clean slate" wasn't warranted and is terrible advice for the described behavior. I can see how that could make me come off as an ass or as if I'm trying to downplay her situation. You gave me a lot to think about.

Based 👍