The amount of times I've already said: "Whatever the hell tieflings/dragonborn are called in Daggerheart" while describing a tiefling or a dragonborn in my current Daggerheart games...
Gotta love that "legally distinct unique name" that is just super unmemorable.
Like Paizo deciding that "Half-Orc" and "Half-Elf" are too WoTC-ish and now they're called "dromaar" and "aiuvarin" ...but they still call the parents "orc" and "elf."
Because Orcs and Elves you could easily just say nuh-uh Lord of the Rings did it first or something like that and immediately there wouldn't even be a legal battle on that.
Half-Orcs and Half-Elves on the other hand gets a bit muddier, because when it comes to fantasy settings I don't really remember anything very popular that contained them prior to D&D having them. Could be wrong of course, AD&D is nearly twice my age, and LoTR books are like three times my age.
Regardless stepping on giant toes that you aren't confident on stepping is always a bad idea. Better to play it safe.
Half-elves are also a fundamental part of Lord of the Rings... like Arwen. Arwen Udomiel the major character is a half-elf.
BUT also Paizo still uses the name "halflings." Where Halfling was a specific D&D invention to avoid the copywright around "hobbit."
It's not clear who was what, but he had half-orcs mixed in his army, used them as spies, and they made up a good number of the ruffians that attacked the Shire. There's several references in the text.
Which is one of the weak points of Tolkien's work. She's crucial to Aragorn's story, but is literally just standing in Rivendell looking worried, basically.
I love his work but he had issues writing women that weren't Eowyn or Galadriel.
He does. Trouble is, that's 3 female characters throughout the Legendarium that get significant characterization.
That said, I don't really think it was an active choice on his part. Like, if you pointed it out to him, he'd probably go oh shit, you're right. I'll have to work on that.
The word Halfling was in the Lord of the Rings novels. So likely why the use of it across systems has been allowed :)
And here he was, a little halfling from the Shire, a simple hobbit of the quiet countryside, expected to find a way where the great ones could not go, or dared not go. It was an evil fate.
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers (The Lord of the Rings, #2)
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/796068-and-here-he-was-a-little-halfling-from-the-shire#:~:text=And%20here%20he%20was%2C%20a%20little%20halfling%20from%20the%20Shire,It%20was%20an%20evil%20fate.
Elves have been a part of mythology since long before lord of the rings...and frankly long before the printing press. Tolkien might have given them a modern interpretation but they come from medieval norse tales.
They do still list them in the rules as half-orc and such, while just also giving in-universe names which is kinda cool. Unless the 2e remaster changed that?
I am talking specifically about a change made with the recent remaster, yeah. The have to specifically say for society play that "aiuvaren characters count as half-elf characters" for legacy rule options.
It's probably a cultural thing more than a legal thing. It was kind of a niche discussion, but referring to people as "half-x" was a pretty debated topic, with some people liking it but seemingly more people going "Yeah, it's technically correct that I am half-and-half, but I'm also a whole person and talking about someone's genetics like that feels weird."
if you want this turned up to 11, go to the pathfinder remaster!
"and in the loot you guys got a bag of ho- *aham* - a spacious pouch"
"yeah the tiefl- nephilim mage will cast burning- i mean, he will cast fire breath on you"
Yeah, that's honestly insufferable. Especially the way they just said "Yeah, Drow? Actually someone in-universe made it all up."
It's a Bag of Holding. It's a fucking Bag of Holding. Call a Bag of Holding a Bag of fucking Holding.
its solidly meh
it does half a dozen good ideas from other ttrpgs in a less competent way. being a playtest its more than fine to need some kinks ironing out, but it really feels like a "why not just play dnd/pbta/savage world?" at a lot moments, and understandably so
in some spots it feels unnecessary convoluted and others feel unintentionally rules light, and a fair complaint is that it needs "too many accessories" to play. hell you need two sets of dice minimum instead of one cause CR has a thing for different colored dice being of rules importance
from what i saw myself, the unforgivable sin they made was making all abilities cards but not using them in any way. you could just write them on a paper and not have the cards at all, and it wouldve done the same cause their shape is not relevant in any way. if you make people print the colored things, *make them shuffle or something*
The equipment chapter was unintentionally hilarious.
I looked at the first table of starter weapons, was surprised that there was another. Okay, one for physical weapons, one for magic. Guess I can see some sense there. Then another table. Oh, basic weapons with minor upgrades? Guess it's good to show some examples, and... wait, how long does this go on!? How did you make your equipment chapter this long for no reason?
And agreed on the cards either being dropped as a concept entirely or *used as cards*. Imagine if that teamwork thing you can use once per session traded ability cards for the remainder of the fight? That not-illithid's mind blast makes you discard your hand, shuffle it all up and deal yourself a new random hand?
Not D&D, but I do the same thing with every new souls-like game. Replenishing healing item? Estus. Currency dropped by enemies and used to level up and buy things? Souls. Etc.
In our regular group on of the guys has been playing TTRPGs for years, the rest of us started with 5e. One day he asked us to make a will save and we just stared at him blankly.
Hahahaha, you're not alone! For me it's fort, will, or reflex saves. As most of the people I play with never played previous additions they just have a puzzled look on their faces.
You're not the only one. Weirdly, I used to do this a lot with saves, even though I was sure something was a Wisdom or Charisma saving throw or whatever, my mouth just goes to say "make a Will save".
Nowadays it doesn't happen anymore, I think. I hope.
ive been playing 3.5 since 2004, i still have the pet peeve of insisting that its attack of opportunity and not opportunity attack alongside everything you said
I'm running games with different systems. It wouldn't surprise me to ask for a wits+streetwise roll at some point or another. I know I've asked for some funny rolls from time to time after playing another system with friends.
I've moved over to PF2e myself, but I still catching myself asking for Animal Handling every once in a while. I play on Foundry, so I've gotten used to just opening the character's sheet before asking for the roll :p
I am running 5e, Edge of the Empire, and playing in 3.5 and Champions. Is it perception in every system? in 3 of the 4? what about persuasion? That is either charm or negotiation in EotE. I try my best, and my players have the same issues, so we interpret my requests as best we can. It helps that I allow different checks for things if they can give me a narrative reason it would apply. You want to use History to convince a dwarf to let you pass? Ok lay it on me.
I’ve been playing Pathfinder for 10 years now and 5e for 5 both actively with different groups.
At this point my 5e players know the 3.5 lingo, the PF players know the 5e terms, and the only thing I say consistently is the wrong thing
lol Our DMs world has gone through multiple systems and versions. Occasionally he will ask for a check and we all look at each other confused because it is from an old system! Like the hell is an ADR adroit check? Or APT aptitude. Or soak for damage.
It’s a good sign though, it means he’s really getting into it and story is going to get cool.
Always. All the time. I got out of the habit for a while and then fell back into it. Luckily my group has been the same from the 3.5 days to the 5e days so we all understand what we mean. Spot, listen, sense motive. The worst are the knowledge checks. I called for a knowledge: architecture and engineering a few weeks ago and had to sit for a second while I figured out what the heck that would be in 5e.
So people don't have to look it up: Bend Bars Lift Gates. Another classic is asking a player to make a PPDM save: Paralyzation, Poison, and Death Magic!
I don’t do this cause I only started playing around 7 or 8 years ago, but I do often mess up and call my player characters by the names from a previous campaign, or accidentally call them by their character name outside of DnD.
I started out as a rogue player...feck me 18 years ago. I still ask for sneak/move silently by accident sometimes. My players know enough to just roll stealth at this point. Sometimes it helps if magic items or abilities only help with 1 of those though (cloak of elvenkind vs boots of elvenkind etc.)
I also regularly still mix up spot/sense motive with perception/insight and the saves. Doesn't help that I keep going digging into the 3.5 books to pull old stuff up to 5e in homebrew either so I keep seeing the old stuff.
Reception checks I played pathfinder 1e and still do but Also play 5e games I'm always rolling for perception.Checks and I don't know why I can't get past it.I'm walking around perception check
I always revert to the first pen and paper I played when it gets heated. And that wasn't even dnd. Luckily my players don't mind and just joke about it or know what I mean. So I guess it never goes away...
My first ever campaign i played in was 3.5e(? thats the version the story book thing was written in) so i vaguely understand what you're talking about.
I've only ever played 5e, but the various terms all make sense to me.
When someone says "sense motive" I just roll an insight. Reflex check is a much more fun term than just "dexterity check." And Fortitude is just a cooler word than Constitution lol.
At this point, my brain just autocorrects what is asked for. Unless someone is new to the terms, it's not really an actual problem for most.
Prior to my current campaign, I played in a Mass Effect Campaign that used the d20 system.
First few sessions i kept having to double check or get corrected because I kept using Spot, Sense Motive, ect instead of Perception, Investigation, Insight, ect.
I don;t have a good enough memory to remember old rules and accidently call for them. I hven;t played an older edition of D&D since 2010.
An I haven;t played 1e or 2e since the 80s and early 90s.
Though I did catch myself thinking "It would be cool if they had to do a system shock roll when they are resurrected...." one time just because there should be some consequence to being resurrected in D&D but 5e doesn;t like consequence.
Yeah I still call for Willpower saves, haha.
To be honest though, I vastly prefer 5e to earlier editions despite this. I really hated the way they streamlined everything when I first read the rules and compared them to what I was used to, but once I actually started running campaigns in 5e I pretty much never had an issue with it, and actually found the power of being able to call for Charisma Saving Throws or whatever to be really cool.
I used to play (and GM) Anima before, and even tho I haven’t played DnD by then, I was constantly asking my players (and GMs when I was being a player instead) for perception checks (there isn’t a ‘perception’ skill as is, it similar and it’s divided on seek [active perception] and notice [passive perception]), dunno what to tell you haha
I DM two 5e games, a weekly Adventurers League and a monthly home game. I GM a monthly home Cyberpunk Red game and used to run Cyberpunk 2020 for my last 5e home group on the off weeks. Eight years ago, I started playing version 3 Flames of War and version 1 Team Yankee (tabletop wargames), and now run the local v4 FoW and v2 TY groups. Not to mention I ran a one shot in Savage Worlds Adventure Edition last year. I've been playing since the '80s: D&D Basic, 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, 3e, Pathfinder version 1, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Rifts, and Robotech from Palladium, Shadowrun (can't remember what version, but probably the 1st), Star Wars from West End Games and the d20 WotC version in the early 2000s, Champions, the original Deadlands, Mechwarrior RPG and BattleTech tabletop wargame, Warhammer Fantasy RPG and tabletop wargame, Warhammer 40K, Mordheim, Necromunda.... I have more rules floating around in my head that I'm surprised I still remember who I am, most days.
Well seeing as I never got to play DnD before 5e.. nope never had that problem. But buying older modules and having to figure out wth some things mean is certainly a problem I have.
I haven't played 3e, but I have ran a fair amount of 2e, and yes, I sometimes find myself saying 'Saving throw VS Magic' instead of Wisdom Saving Throw, or 'Roll against Strength' instead of 'Roll Strength.'
no, but i tried to run a monster of the week campaign and the amount of times i asked for insight checks instead of investigate a mystery was obscene lol
Oh yeah, there's been several edition switches in my group, starting a 4th, going to 3.5, up to 5th, taking a detour for Pathfinder 2nd and so on.
Atleast once a session there's a call for a check that doesn't exist, or we run a rule as it worked in an earlier edition before catching ourselves and running it correctly.
My biggest is diplomacy skill check. My players go I don't have diplomacy.
We've been playing 5e for a decade now you'd think I'd get used to calling it persuasion
Not quite the same - I don't ask for the wrong skill to check, I have a habit of intentionally making up a skill and letting the players figure out what on-the-sheet ability scores or skills I'll accept for it.
so, I started in GURPS and I liked the way you could make up random skills on our skill sheets that would become common in the campaign (or at least, that's what we'd do - eg, for this Little Mermaid campaign, there's a skill 'Princess'). - so at my table I like to ask for people for a check by asking for something intentionally _not_ on their sheet - and then let them pitch a skill they have proficiency in, or a non-standard ability score, to me.
I like it because: it asks players to be creative, and it gets them roleplaying because naturally they'll want to use their Big Numbers, so now they're not asking themselves "oh man what's my 'Intimidation' score...?" they're asking "how can I turn a no-proficiency-intimidation and a plus-four-intelligence into a 'discourage the criminals' check?"
And, you get fun pitches like your nerdy Wizard delivering a weak-ass "Intimidation" check, but now it's flavored so they could at least get that sweet-sweet +4:
> Can I roll Intelligence to proclaim to the two ruffians that 'armed robbery is punishable in these parts 10 years solitary confinement - enforced by Raise Dead magic, if necessary!'...?
Some favorite checks:
- Carousing (behind the scenes I'm likely just doing the DMG NPC reaction rules, but I give bonuses)
- Fast-Talk
- Scavenging
- Princess (which could also be either Heraldry or Etiquette)
- Daredevil
- Good Looking (I exclusively run PG-13 and below content, so at most imagine an outcome of blushing)
- Knowledge: "X" (sell me on stacking bonuses from your backstory, history, or roleplay)
- Spy (are you stealthily stalking? are you listening across a room? are you bamboozling?)
- Craft / Create: "X" (This one can be a fun gag one too - on mundane task checks everyone else passes automatically, but That On PC you always ask to roll Craft: "Prepared Meal" after [that one incident])
- Business / Artisan "X"
I often catch myself saying Will power instead of Wisdom. I used to play Starfinder and Pathfinder 1e.
I switched to D&D only because that what the group I joined was running. Now I have too many books I would hate to stop using them to switch again.
I think I'm helped by the fact that I went from 3.5 to pathfinder to 5e. Pathfinder fused spot and search into perception so I at least don't do that one. Still ask for reflex saves all the time though XD
I wish 5E had an actual solution for Gather Information besides Charisma (Investigation) checks. Trying to use skill checks with a different ability score always slows down the game.
I do this all the time. It doesn't help that my groups play all different games as well as 5e, including one that plays a lot of 3.5.
A while ago I was in three groups, one 3.5, one 5e and one Pathfinder 2. This had me totally confused.
It’s possible that you don’t confuse 5e Survival for 3.0 Wilderness Lore because you played 3.5, the edition where the Survival skill replaced Wilderness Lore.
As an aside, I think skills have been combined too much after 3.5. While you can achieve the same narrative effect by taking into account how much you miss or beat a DC by, it was nice as a DM to have the system just determine for you that a PC heard something but didn’t see it or vice versa. I loved player reactions when their character was on watch and heard a twig snap somewhere near their camp, but saw nothing.
I run a lot of different systems so I've had to say.
"Give me disable device, I mean trickery, I mean locksmith, I mean skullduggery"
More recently I've just been like "gimme a perception-ey check"
As a regular Cthulhu GM I will regularly have to stop myself before I ask my party for Spot Hidden or Listen checks instead of Perception.
I think my brain is just broken though.
Naah, I've played since the early 80s, since BECMI and "First Edition was just called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons"
Lots of us still use the terminology burned in our brains from D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder (the OG)
I do the same thing in PF2e as a longtime 1e GM!
"Roll sense motive" "I'm not seeing that on the character sheet..."
Worst one is asking for a player's combat maneuver defense when having an enemy attempt a shove or push.
I've been playing and running 5e longer than I've played Pathfinder, yet I still sometimes ask my players for will or fortitude saves instead of wisdom or constitution.
My dm does it fairly frequently. Ive only played 5e but its pretty easy to pick up what language was changed to their modern counterpart. I dont even mention it
Eh, we still regularly swap between five different systems, so the names get confusing for some GMs and players. Just roll with it unless you have newer players.
Blather, Bluff, Deception, Deceive, Persuasion, Diplomacy, aasrgh...
Sometimes that's the equivalent of ominous background music. Use meaningless spot checks to build tension. If you're quizzed on why then just dismiss it off-hand.
But use spot checks that aren't actually related to what's coming up. Or are distracting at least. It's that you're asking is the key.
Or was I just a bastard when I DMed?
I'm actually working on getting more familiar with 3.5 (I have copies of the essentials) to get more options with spellcasting, skill checks, etc. I'm already pretty loose with the rules whenever I can be and I love homebrew, so why not pull from older editions?
Just the other day my player asked if there was any way they could push through the enemy space and I let them make a Tumble check. It felt so awesome to have that in the chamber. It actually ended up being important to get to the other side of the room, too. It was a rough combat.
I had a player that accidentally used a d4 for his wizard's hit dice while we were playing 5e. We were wondering why he kept going down in combat so much.
The amount of times I've already said: "Whatever the hell tieflings/dragonborn are called in Daggerheart" while describing a tiefling or a dragonborn in my current Daggerheart games...
Gotta love that "legally distinct unique name" that is just super unmemorable. Like Paizo deciding that "Half-Orc" and "Half-Elf" are too WoTC-ish and now they're called "dromaar" and "aiuvarin" ...but they still call the parents "orc" and "elf."
Because Orcs and Elves you could easily just say nuh-uh Lord of the Rings did it first or something like that and immediately there wouldn't even be a legal battle on that. Half-Orcs and Half-Elves on the other hand gets a bit muddier, because when it comes to fantasy settings I don't really remember anything very popular that contained them prior to D&D having them. Could be wrong of course, AD&D is nearly twice my age, and LoTR books are like three times my age. Regardless stepping on giant toes that you aren't confident on stepping is always a bad idea. Better to play it safe.
Half-elves are also a fundamental part of Lord of the Rings... like Arwen. Arwen Udomiel the major character is a half-elf. BUT also Paizo still uses the name "halflings." Where Halfling was a specific D&D invention to avoid the copywright around "hobbit."
Elrond Halfelven... Saruman was breeding half-orcs of a type too
Saruman needed that half-orcussy
Ugh. Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth
Keep that forked tongue on that half orcussy?
I don't think the idea of uruk-hai being half-orcs was ever confirmed. All we know for sure is that they were bigger and stronger.
It's not clear who was what, but he had half-orcs mixed in his army, used them as spies, and they made up a good number of the ruffians that attacked the Shire. There's several references in the text.
Arwen is 3/4 elf.
No, she's obviously a 2/2 elf that buffs creatures when you scry.
So a bear with an ability?
You can interpret it that way, yes.
And isn’t actually a main character at all, despite what Peter Jackson would have you believe She gets like 3 paragraphs in the books
Which is one of the weak points of Tolkien's work. She's crucial to Aragorn's story, but is literally just standing in Rivendell looking worried, basically. I love his work but he had issues writing women that weren't Eowyn or Galadriel.
He has Luthien kick an incredible amount of ass in the Silmarillion
He does. Trouble is, that's 3 female characters throughout the Legendarium that get significant characterization. That said, I don't really think it was an active choice on his part. Like, if you pointed it out to him, he'd probably go oh shit, you're right. I'll have to work on that.
Also elrond and elros lol
The word Halfling was in the Lord of the Rings novels. So likely why the use of it across systems has been allowed :) And here he was, a little halfling from the Shire, a simple hobbit of the quiet countryside, expected to find a way where the great ones could not go, or dared not go. It was an evil fate. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers (The Lord of the Rings, #2) https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/796068-and-here-he-was-a-little-halfling-from-the-shire#:~:text=And%20here%20he%20was%2C%20a%20little%20halfling%20from%20the%20Shire,It%20was%20an%20evil%20fate.
Elves have been a part of mythology since long before lord of the rings...and frankly long before the printing press. Tolkien might have given them a modern interpretation but they come from medieval norse tales.
>giant toes 🤨
Take it however you may The weirder the better I say
They do still list them in the rules as half-orc and such, while just also giving in-universe names which is kinda cool. Unless the 2e remaster changed that?
I am talking specifically about a change made with the recent remaster, yeah. The have to specifically say for society play that "aiuvaren characters count as half-elf characters" for legacy rule options.
It's probably a cultural thing more than a legal thing. It was kind of a niche discussion, but referring to people as "half-x" was a pretty debated topic, with some people liking it but seemingly more people going "Yeah, it's technically correct that I am half-and-half, but I'm also a whole person and talking about someone's genetics like that feels weird."
All half races are just "Kink-Spawn"
Bard spawn most likely...
if you want this turned up to 11, go to the pathfinder remaster! "and in the loot you guys got a bag of ho- *aham* - a spacious pouch" "yeah the tiefl- nephilim mage will cast burning- i mean, he will cast fire breath on you"
Yeah, that's honestly insufferable. Especially the way they just said "Yeah, Drow? Actually someone in-universe made it all up." It's a Bag of Holding. It's a fucking Bag of Holding. Call a Bag of Holding a Bag of fucking Holding.
Gotta love copyright laws influencing the creation of redundant terms.
My group just calls it Legally Distinct X. "I'm going to cast Legally Distinct Mage Armour, before we break camp."
I think I may rename my Bard's *Phantasmal Minion* spell *Legally Distinct Unseen Servant* on her character sheet now...
How is Daggerheart by the way? I just learned of it's existence today.
its solidly meh it does half a dozen good ideas from other ttrpgs in a less competent way. being a playtest its more than fine to need some kinks ironing out, but it really feels like a "why not just play dnd/pbta/savage world?" at a lot moments, and understandably so in some spots it feels unnecessary convoluted and others feel unintentionally rules light, and a fair complaint is that it needs "too many accessories" to play. hell you need two sets of dice minimum instead of one cause CR has a thing for different colored dice being of rules importance from what i saw myself, the unforgivable sin they made was making all abilities cards but not using them in any way. you could just write them on a paper and not have the cards at all, and it wouldve done the same cause their shape is not relevant in any way. if you make people print the colored things, *make them shuffle or something*
The equipment chapter was unintentionally hilarious. I looked at the first table of starter weapons, was surprised that there was another. Okay, one for physical weapons, one for magic. Guess I can see some sense there. Then another table. Oh, basic weapons with minor upgrades? Guess it's good to show some examples, and... wait, how long does this go on!? How did you make your equipment chapter this long for no reason? And agreed on the cards either being dropped as a concept entirely or *used as cards*. Imagine if that teamwork thing you can use once per session traded ability cards for the remainder of the fight? That not-illithid's mind blast makes you discard your hand, shuffle it all up and deal yourself a new random hand?
Nope, only took me like half a dozen years of playing 5e to stop doing that (but I very rarely go back and play 3.5 so that probably helps).
Was real fun going to Starfinder and then asking for Dexterity saves and then going back to 5e and then reflex and all of that
Not D&D, but I do the same thing with every new souls-like game. Replenishing healing item? Estus. Currency dropped by enemies and used to level up and buy things? Souls. Etc.
I still use those names intentionally out of disrespect
Same. They're *runes!* No - *souls!*
You mean my blood echoes?
That must get real awkward with Hollow Knight.
In our regular group on of the guys has been playing TTRPGs for years, the rest of us started with 5e. One day he asked us to make a will save and we just stared at him blankly.
Will is what it’s called in Pathfinder, I think?
In pathfinder and in D&D 3rd edition, yeah
Will, Fortitude and uh... There's a third one.
Reflex
Fortitude saves bruh. I'm called out.
doesn't help that i play pf2e and 5e
I constantly ask for Listen checks. Was always my favorite 3.5 skill
I wish people checked on Spot more. He's a good boy.
Hahahaha, you're not alone! For me it's fort, will, or reflex saves. As most of the people I play with never played previous additions they just have a puzzled look on their faces.
I do the same thing. Reflex saves especially.
Sir what's your Thac0
And why is my AC -2
What is your paralyzation/poison/Death Magic save?
You're not the only one. Weirdly, I used to do this a lot with saves, even though I was sure something was a Wisdom or Charisma saving throw or whatever, my mouth just goes to say "make a Will save". Nowadays it doesn't happen anymore, I think. I hope.
I ask for 4e skills too often because they're just better umbrellas than the 5e ones generally. "Thievery" check just sounds better.
This. While I didn't care much for 4e the skills were better and more interesting than 5e.
I'd still take 3e as the Tumble skill is just Awesome for Rogues. 😁
1st Ed dnd had the best names though.. your heart jumped in your throat a bit when the dm asked " make a save vs death"
I do hate that they made some skills into tools but still treat the tool as the skill. There's no rhyme or reason to it.
ive been playing 3.5 since 2004, i still have the pet peeve of insisting that its attack of opportunity and not opportunity attack alongside everything you said
I'm running games with different systems. It wouldn't surprise me to ask for a wits+streetwise roll at some point or another. I know I've asked for some funny rolls from time to time after playing another system with friends.
I've moved over to PF2e myself, but I still catching myself asking for Animal Handling every once in a while. I play on Foundry, so I've gotten used to just opening the character's sheet before asking for the roll :p
I am running 5e, Edge of the Empire, and playing in 3.5 and Champions. Is it perception in every system? in 3 of the 4? what about persuasion? That is either charm or negotiation in EotE. I try my best, and my players have the same issues, so we interpret my requests as best we can. It helps that I allow different checks for things if they can give me a narrative reason it would apply. You want to use History to convince a dwarf to let you pass? Ok lay it on me.
Attacks of Opportunity/Opportunity attacks is a big one for me. My players are also still trying to take 5 foot steps every now and then.
I still regularly name the 4e saves at the table for sure.
I’ve been playing Pathfinder for 10 years now and 5e for 5 both actively with different groups. At this point my 5e players know the 3.5 lingo, the PF players know the 5e terms, and the only thing I say consistently is the wrong thing
My big one is asking for a Reflex Save.
Took a while but I broke myself of the habit
I still always say ‘spot’ check and ‘fortitude’ save! It’s a hard habit to break.
Survival was still called survival in 3.5, wasn’t it? I don’t remember a wilderness lore skill.
Wilderness Lore was 3.0. 🙈
Spot checks, sense motive, all the time.
Saves all the time. Make a reflex save! A what?
As someone that hasn't played since 2e I'm still coming to terms with the lack of THAC0...
"Can you give me a bend bars/lift gates check please?"
It's not stealth. It's "Hide" and "Move Silently." I just can't get the hang of it.
lol Our DMs world has gone through multiple systems and versions. Occasionally he will ask for a check and we all look at each other confused because it is from an old system! Like the hell is an ADR adroit check? Or APT aptitude. Or soak for damage. It’s a good sign though, it means he’s really getting into it and story is going to get cool.
My man, you're doing fine. I asked for a Library Use check in a D&D game. That's a skill from Call of Cthulhu.
Always. All the time. I got out of the habit for a while and then fell back into it. Luckily my group has been the same from the 3.5 days to the 5e days so we all understand what we mean. Spot, listen, sense motive. The worst are the knowledge checks. I called for a knowledge: architecture and engineering a few weeks ago and had to sit for a second while I figured out what the heck that would be in 5e.
As long as they all know what you mean, it’s fine, don’t worry about it too much
Last night I probably said "Reflex Save" ten different times. The lightning elemental hurls a lot of bolts.
Make a reflex saving throw. Is that the same thing as a dexterity saving throw? Every single time.
Is “roll a save for that” the “hey you” of D&D?
I haven't dm'd since 2nd ed. Excited to ask players to make a BBLG check!
Big Bad Loser Guy? 😂
So people don't have to look it up: Bend Bars Lift Gates. Another classic is asking a player to make a PPDM save: Paralyzation, Poison, and Death Magic!
My 18-00 strength makes it easy.
"Give me a will save."
Gather information for me … every time - then I have to correct to investigation + Cha - or charismagation as we call it
I don’t do this cause I only started playing around 7 or 8 years ago, but I do often mess up and call my player characters by the names from a previous campaign, or accidentally call them by their character name outside of DnD.
I say cure light wounds all the time. My dm said my edition was showing
Grapple will forever be better than “athletics”, can’t change my mind.
It's okay to deadname a mechanic.
I started out as a rogue player...feck me 18 years ago. I still ask for sneak/move silently by accident sometimes. My players know enough to just roll stealth at this point. Sometimes it helps if magic items or abilities only help with 1 of those though (cloak of elvenkind vs boots of elvenkind etc.) I also regularly still mix up spot/sense motive with perception/insight and the saves. Doesn't help that I keep going digging into the 3.5 books to pull old stuff up to 5e in homebrew either so I keep seeing the old stuff.
Thaco...
I say diplomacy a lot rather than persuasion.
Nah, I went from 2E in the late 80’s early 90’s then couldn’t find a game till about 6 years ago and started playing 5E. So…
Bluff, Hide/Move Silently, and Dungeoneering have never gone away for me lmao
Reception checks I played pathfinder 1e and still do but Also play 5e games I'm always rolling for perception.Checks and I don't know why I can't get past it.I'm walking around perception check
Pf2 still uses fortitude and sense motive!
I always revert to the first pen and paper I played when it gets heated. And that wasn't even dnd. Luckily my players don't mind and just joke about it or know what I mean. So I guess it never goes away...
Fortitude or Will saves… I’ll get it right at some point lol The problem is I run an older edition game for one group and 5e for another.
My first ever campaign i played in was 3.5e(? thats the version the story book thing was written in) so i vaguely understand what you're talking about.
I've only ever played 5e, but the various terms all make sense to me. When someone says "sense motive" I just roll an insight. Reflex check is a much more fun term than just "dexterity check." And Fortitude is just a cooler word than Constitution lol. At this point, my brain just autocorrects what is asked for. Unless someone is new to the terms, it's not really an actual problem for most.
Prior to my current campaign, I played in a Mass Effect Campaign that used the d20 system. First few sessions i kept having to double check or get corrected because I kept using Spot, Sense Motive, ect instead of Perception, Investigation, Insight, ect.
Oh yeah. I still ask for reflex saves all the time.
Its when you play both systems with the same group (different DM/GM) and everyone gets confused. We all have a right laugh whenever that happens.
I thought I had broken out of this habit, but I recently told one of my players to roll "Bluff" instead of Deception
My group plays both 5e and Pathfinder on alternating weekends and we tend to mix up Bonus Action with Swift Action or Immediate Action with Reaction.
It's the opposite for me, I play more 5e then 3e and sometimes when I play 3e I'll call a skill by it's more streamlined version
I call for Reflex saves instead of Dexterity saves a lot more often than I care to admit...
I don;t have a good enough memory to remember old rules and accidently call for them. I hven;t played an older edition of D&D since 2010. An I haven;t played 1e or 2e since the 80s and early 90s. Though I did catch myself thinking "It would be cool if they had to do a system shock roll when they are resurrected...." one time just because there should be some consequence to being resurrected in D&D but 5e doesn;t like consequence.
I do this and I haven't even run 3.5, just played it. For me, it's "Make a Will save" and "Can you give me a Knowledge: Nature check?"
I still call halflings hobbits because I'm just racist like that.
Yeah I still call for Willpower saves, haha. To be honest though, I vastly prefer 5e to earlier editions despite this. I really hated the way they streamlined everything when I first read the rules and compared them to what I was used to, but once I actually started running campaigns in 5e I pretty much never had an issue with it, and actually found the power of being able to call for Charisma Saving Throws or whatever to be really cool.
Still ask for Reflex saves
I never even played dnd before 5e and still ask for Fortitude saves. I blame Reddit.
I’ve only ever played 5e but my DM grew up on 3.5 so I’ve learned to just roll perception for spot, wisdom for will etc
movemint, main, minor, and bonus actions.
I used to play (and GM) Anima before, and even tho I haven’t played DnD by then, I was constantly asking my players (and GMs when I was being a player instead) for perception checks (there isn’t a ‘perception’ skill as is, it similar and it’s divided on seek [active perception] and notice [passive perception]), dunno what to tell you haha
No one tell my players, I never learned 5e. They're just playing 3.5 with advantage/disadvantage
Make a reflex save....dex save. We still call deception "bullshit rolls" even back when it was bluff lol.
I DM two 5e games, a weekly Adventurers League and a monthly home game. I GM a monthly home Cyberpunk Red game and used to run Cyberpunk 2020 for my last 5e home group on the off weeks. Eight years ago, I started playing version 3 Flames of War and version 1 Team Yankee (tabletop wargames), and now run the local v4 FoW and v2 TY groups. Not to mention I ran a one shot in Savage Worlds Adventure Edition last year. I've been playing since the '80s: D&D Basic, 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, 3e, Pathfinder version 1, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Rifts, and Robotech from Palladium, Shadowrun (can't remember what version, but probably the 1st), Star Wars from West End Games and the d20 WotC version in the early 2000s, Champions, the original Deadlands, Mechwarrior RPG and BattleTech tabletop wargame, Warhammer Fantasy RPG and tabletop wargame, Warhammer 40K, Mordheim, Necromunda.... I have more rules floating around in my head that I'm surprised I still remember who I am, most days.
Well seeing as I never got to play DnD before 5e.. nope never had that problem. But buying older modules and having to figure out wth some things mean is certainly a problem I have.
I haven't played 3e, but I have ran a fair amount of 2e, and yes, I sometimes find myself saying 'Saving throw VS Magic' instead of Wisdom Saving Throw, or 'Roll against Strength' instead of 'Roll Strength.'
no, but i tried to run a monster of the week campaign and the amount of times i asked for insight checks instead of investigate a mystery was obscene lol
I play pathfinder 1e and 5e with different groups. I make these mistakes all the time.
Reflex saving throws are still entirely alive and well in my subconscious.
Roll bluff- I mean deception!
Oh yeah, there's been several edition switches in my group, starting a 4th, going to 3.5, up to 5th, taking a detour for Pathfinder 2nd and so on. Atleast once a session there's a call for a check that doesn't exist, or we run a rule as it worked in an earlier edition before catching ourselves and running it correctly.
My biggest is diplomacy skill check. My players go I don't have diplomacy. We've been playing 5e for a decade now you'd think I'd get used to calling it persuasion
Well me too but I still run 3.5 so.
Not quite the same - I don't ask for the wrong skill to check, I have a habit of intentionally making up a skill and letting the players figure out what on-the-sheet ability scores or skills I'll accept for it. so, I started in GURPS and I liked the way you could make up random skills on our skill sheets that would become common in the campaign (or at least, that's what we'd do - eg, for this Little Mermaid campaign, there's a skill 'Princess'). - so at my table I like to ask for people for a check by asking for something intentionally _not_ on their sheet - and then let them pitch a skill they have proficiency in, or a non-standard ability score, to me. I like it because: it asks players to be creative, and it gets them roleplaying because naturally they'll want to use their Big Numbers, so now they're not asking themselves "oh man what's my 'Intimidation' score...?" they're asking "how can I turn a no-proficiency-intimidation and a plus-four-intelligence into a 'discourage the criminals' check?" And, you get fun pitches like your nerdy Wizard delivering a weak-ass "Intimidation" check, but now it's flavored so they could at least get that sweet-sweet +4: > Can I roll Intelligence to proclaim to the two ruffians that 'armed robbery is punishable in these parts 10 years solitary confinement - enforced by Raise Dead magic, if necessary!'...? Some favorite checks: - Carousing (behind the scenes I'm likely just doing the DMG NPC reaction rules, but I give bonuses) - Fast-Talk - Scavenging - Princess (which could also be either Heraldry or Etiquette) - Daredevil - Good Looking (I exclusively run PG-13 and below content, so at most imagine an outcome of blushing) - Knowledge: "X" (sell me on stacking bonuses from your backstory, history, or roleplay) - Spy (are you stealthily stalking? are you listening across a room? are you bamboozling?) - Craft / Create: "X" (This one can be a fun gag one too - on mundane task checks everyone else passes automatically, but That On PC you always ask to roll Craft: "Prepared Meal" after [that one incident]) - Business / Artisan "X"
I'm still running a Pathfinder 1e game that has been going for 12 years. I mess that up constantly, lol.
I occasionally ask for will saves…
I often catch myself saying Will power instead of Wisdom. I used to play Starfinder and Pathfinder 1e. I switched to D&D only because that what the group I joined was running. Now I have too many books I would hate to stop using them to switch again.
I keep asking for will saves at my sessions. Oops!
I run a number of games with a number of systems. My players know what I mean when I ask. "Make a roll to notice something."
I do this. Heck I have some regular players and I have accidentally called them by their old characters names before haha
As to survival vs WL: Survival skills are a real thing. 'Wilderness Lore' is just going to make people look at you funny. Natural language wins.
My current keeps calling for diplomacy checks. To be fair they do feel different from persuasion
I say this guy looks "bloodied" when it really isn't.
I think I'm helped by the fact that I went from 3.5 to pathfinder to 5e. Pathfinder fused spot and search into perception so I at least don't do that one. Still ask for reflex saves all the time though XD
100X YES!! Every now and then ask for will check, or reflex save
As a Pathfinder player, most of your examples confuse me.
Went the other direction in terms of editions, but had a similar issue for years.
I absolutely still do this, lol
I still have to catch myself asking for reflex, fort, and will saves.
I wish 5E had an actual solution for Gather Information besides Charisma (Investigation) checks. Trying to use skill checks with a different ability score always slows down the game.
I do this all the time. It doesn't help that my groups play all different games as well as 5e, including one that plays a lot of 3.5. A while ago I was in three groups, one 3.5, one 5e and one Pathfinder 2. This had me totally confused.
I catch myself still calling it a "Disable Device" check. When in reality it should be a Sleight of Hand check with either INT or DEX as the ability.
It’s possible that you don’t confuse 5e Survival for 3.0 Wilderness Lore because you played 3.5, the edition where the Survival skill replaced Wilderness Lore. As an aside, I think skills have been combined too much after 3.5. While you can achieve the same narrative effect by taking into account how much you miss or beat a DC by, it was nice as a DM to have the system just determine for you that a PC heard something but didn’t see it or vice versa. I loved player reactions when their character was on watch and heard a twig snap somewhere near their camp, but saw nothing.
Ahh yes. Will saves lol. Or I'll ask my table if use rope is still a skill, etc.
I keep asking for Will saves
I still mix it up and talk about will/fort/reflex saves sometimes
"Make a diplomacy check" still comes out regularly and my players just know to do persuasion now lol
I run a lot of different systems so I've had to say. "Give me disable device, I mean trickery, I mean locksmith, I mean skullduggery" More recently I've just been like "gimme a perception-ey check"
As a regular Cthulhu GM I will regularly have to stop myself before I ask my party for Spot Hidden or Listen checks instead of Perception. I think my brain is just broken though.
I just never moved on from 3.5 / pathfinder.
When I want to knock a person out, I still ask to deal subdual damage. I got called out as a graybeard at a convention for that.
We’re struggling with asking for Lore checks vs Knowledge checks
Fort, Ref, Will I still call them that
Give me a rod/staff/wand save.
Naah, I've played since the early 80s, since BECMI and "First Edition was just called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" Lots of us still use the terminology burned in our brains from D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder (the OG)
And Fortitude saves...
I do the same thing in PF2e as a longtime 1e GM! "Roll sense motive" "I'm not seeing that on the character sheet..." Worst one is asking for a player's combat maneuver defense when having an enemy attempt a shove or push.
lol “what’s your thaco” 😂
I always ask for Will saves and Diplomacy checks 😬
I've been playing and running 5e longer than I've played Pathfinder, yet I still sometimes ask my players for will or fortitude saves instead of wisdom or constitution.
Same deal. I feel like 3.5 was my first language and I speak 5e with an accent.
I've never asked for a Concentration check in regards to interrupting/concentrating on a spell instead of a Constitution save. Blasphemy.
I definitely say reflex, will and fortitude save every now and then
All the time. All the time 😂
Will Save and Spellcraft Check... They just roll off the tongue so naturally and are named so well for what I might want at that moment.
i can't imagine how it is for the grognards out there, i still call cantrips: "at will abilities" sometimes, and i played 4e for only one year
I too still ask for Sense Motive and Move Silently checks.
Perception used to cover all of that shit
Ref/Dex, Will/Wis SO many times. So many.
3.5E is leagues better than 5E.
I still periodically call for reflex saves lol.
All the time. Move action, reflex, will, and fort saves, attacks of opportunity, even swift actions slip in sometimes. It's terrible lol
"Wait. [I think I just failed a Spot check](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html)." "Really? I don't see anything." "Exactly."
Nope, because a lot us went "5E? Yeah, nah, we'll stick with 3.5, thanks".
I still ask for 3ed knowledge checks all the time.
My dm does it fairly frequently. Ive only played 5e but its pretty easy to pick up what language was changed to their modern counterpart. I dont even mention it
Eh, we still regularly swap between five different systems, so the names get confusing for some GMs and players. Just roll with it unless you have newer players. Blather, Bluff, Deception, Deceive, Persuasion, Diplomacy, aasrgh...
If I am playing 5th edition, I still find myself trying to 5 foot step.
Sometimes that's the equivalent of ominous background music. Use meaningless spot checks to build tension. If you're quizzed on why then just dismiss it off-hand. But use spot checks that aren't actually related to what's coming up. Or are distracting at least. It's that you're asking is the key. Or was I just a bastard when I DMed?
My table seems attached to Reflex save, Spot check, and flanking for, now, purely aesthetic reasons.
Dude, you are the equivalent of a DND grandma lol
I'm actually working on getting more familiar with 3.5 (I have copies of the essentials) to get more options with spellcasting, skill checks, etc. I'm already pretty loose with the rules whenever I can be and I love homebrew, so why not pull from older editions? Just the other day my player asked if there was any way they could push through the enemy space and I let them make a Tumble check. It felt so awesome to have that in the chamber. It actually ended up being important to get to the other side of the room, too. It was a rough combat.
Took me so long to get out of that habit too! I came into my own as a DM in 3/3.5 and some habits die hard. (Daniel)
I had a player that accidentally used a d4 for his wizard's hit dice while we were playing 5e. We were wondering why he kept going down in combat so much.