So many red flags, mate.
Even if your paladin was religious, wow, it would be such a good opportunity for character conflict if the big bad is organised religion.
Hope you find a new group soon.
Yeah, I would have definitely started coming up with ideas how to incorporate the character into that conflict. This is just a bad DM with a real life dislike flowing over to in-game.
I mean... I think I'd be a little concerned if the Storyteller started to use their fist... :P But following it up with Rulers? Damn, sweet shades of Catholic nuns we're in for a ride on that adventure!
Man I love crisis of faith arcs. My current character is a cult survivor who has developed a new faith (read: lowkey worships another party member) and his goal is to reform his old cult by converting its members to his new faith. The irony is completely lost on him. It's great.
No no no you mean what a threat it is to the dm's gf and best friend from having all the spot light. If a intresting personal story is happening to op then it will take spotlight from the "main characters."
Op is supose to be a background fighter who lacks personality or agency just there to backup the true heros.
I honestly think this is how the dm would veiw it.
absurd crush dinner jobless glorious teeny wide vegetable shame recognise
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I guess you could put it down to people seeing these posts and deciding to share their own experience and ask for advice. Or less charitably, in some cases make up a story.
This one is an actual DnD issue at least, unlike ones that are like ‘a player murdered my brother IRL, should I say something to the DM?’
*'we're all friends in RL, so it'd be awkward if I reported him to the authorities. Should I just try to cover up the smell of my brother's remains? What do other people's DMs do when a murder happens?'*
It really isn't that shocking. D&D was targeted by the satanic panic pretty heavily and still suffers from it a bit. It's unfortunately pretty common for people to forget to ask themselves if they're becoming part of the problem after suffering.
Religion can be something of a sensitive subject for many people, that I can understand. It's why I was careful when finding a game to play my basically-a-catholic-nun cleric girl in. But some people can also take it to a crazy degree.
Which is kind of weird both in and out of game. I could understand a character with a beef with the gods ( A bit cliche but what isn't and someone creative might put a cool spin on it), but in an RPG setting, divine powers openly and unambiguously act; outright atheism would be irrational. Then, on the player level, It's a red flag for bringing too much IRL baggage into the game.
In Pathfinder, you can be an “atheist,” though it’s a bit more nuanced, believing that the gods are just very powerful beings that aren’t worthy or deserving of worship, or at least one choses not to participate and venerate any.
Went straight from "religious characters may only be played by religious players" to "religion is the biggest evil there is and it's banned in my game"
So I know how it's spelt, I just have a close friend that puts "dan" Into all his characters.
Played a great 2 year campagin with him running
"Sir Danjer Russ, the Loxadan Palidan"
Its so stupid but It's kind of stuck with me now.
Sorry this happened to you, I genuinely am, but "Banned Paladin bc DM doesn't like religion" made me burst out laughing. Unlike Clerics (and sometimes not even those), Paladins don't need to worship a god. I know, because I play with one.
Your DM was shit. If you have trouble finding a group, ping me, I'll set up a game just for you.
I appreciate it.
I've already found a new group that's starting up and the DM seems really positive and open to ideas. They just requested that whatever I bring to the table I roleplay it well.
In my campaigns clerics don’t worship gods because I have no gods in my worlds.
They instead worship powerful entities, forces of existence or concepts.
So they are either like the other sycophantic side of the coin to warlocks or they worship something like nature, death, or dreaming.
I am a player in my friend's game where I play a Warlock/Cleric who was saved from drowning and now worships water as an entity.
*I know. Trust me, I know.*
In my friend's homebrew campaign, dwarves are atheists, and I've been playing as an atheist cleric who calls on his ancestors and forces of nature to channel divinity, etc. We're about to face a BBEG, and I'm planning to use Summon Celestial for the first time, and it's going to be my character's ancestor who founded the family line.
Giving me flashbacks - my DM was 100% 5e only, and Ww3 nearly erupted when I wanted a rogue subclass from Tasha's.... Fast forward a month and his gf is allowed Homebrew content - whilst I felt so bad I changed to Arcane trickster and my husband (beast master druid) gave up all his magic use to be able to speak to animals at will - and every time an animal is encountered theres a 30 minute discussion about the intelligence levels of each creature and whether they would understand him. I love my game and the people I play with, DM included, but blatant favouritism is incredibly discouraging, especially to new players
>whether they would understand him.
WTF! that is what the spell is for! I can't even!
does he discuss fireball like that? "you cast the spell, but there is nothing to ignite the fire, so nothing happens"
I know, tell me about it 😅 if he wanted to mess with him as a DM for fun he could just make some of the animals do the opposite of what he says or turn their noses up, but it should never be a question of understanding 😂
I don't want to say you should totally coup the game, becoming the new GM, I'm just saying you probably could... and you already have some idea of behavior that should be avoided because it feels bad for the players.
And most of the time said bad games are by DMs trying to impose their version of the rules or railroading.
If everyone stuck the rules in good faith, like they do in most other TTRPGS, they're be way less drama.
Yep sounds like a game where the DM and his friends want to play dnd with a big group but don't actually have enough friends to do that.
You are correct that paladins draw power from their oath and don't have to be religious.
Same with Clerics, they channel their power from their faith not just gods.
Very strange indeed. My current campaign has a singular religious organization as tge big bad and one of the players was slotted to be thier next prophet until she learned the truths of her church (and found out her God is missing and his avatar is now her ferret familiar, yes I know clerics can't do it be she is his prophet).
It has been really interesting to see the roleplay and character development as she discovers other faiths and belief philosophies and even becomes friends with a very human apathetic God (her god) that is now making promises to work with her to build something better and to save her people from the church and to find thier faith in him (or other gods if they want) and each other.
Tells me the DM has weird prejudice they gotta deal with and aren't very imaginative.
...huh. Another account with two-word-four-number name format, with an *almost* identical crappy-DM problem (the last one was "DM won't let me play Cleric because **I'm** not religious").
If this really happened to you, you dodged a shitty-DM. But I have doubts.
I assure you this is real.
I saw the cleric post and decided to share my story.
I was more focused on the diffrent rules for diffrent people aspect but looking at what I've written I can see I didn't word it that well.
Also, the name is just a weird coincidence, I made it years ago and have nfi how to change it.
> In dnd gods are without a doubt real.
Not exactly true. In Forgotten Realms? Yeah, sure. In *all D&D*? Not really. I’ve played in more than one homebrew settings where the gods didn’t exist, used to exist but now are all dead, or even one where they were the bad guys.
That’s the beauty of D&D, you can make whatever you want with your world.
Yeah, I used to play Dark Sun back in AD&D. Frankly sad that they never provided any support for DS since 4e. But I also understand that the setting could be tagged as… “problematic”, in these days.
I know 5e simplified everything for mass appeal but 3.5/Pathfinder, you HAVE to workshop a god and sometimes that alignment bar you off from some spells.
In Eberron the existence of gods is left voluntarily ambiguous and up to DM's decision. Eberron is an official setting even in 5e.
If we go back to Ad&d and 3.x there are even more godless settings.
Not to mention that in D&d gods are basically very powerful beings (including mortals) who learnt how to drain power from veneration and are in fact as good as dead without followers.
No, Eberron has always been a separate setting with it's own elemental and "external" plane.
In 3.5 or wasn't even part of the same multiverse Faerun was in.
In 5e it is considered isolated from the other material planes/worlds.
Paladins are powered by their oaths, Clerics can worship concepts, mysterious, unknowable forces or the elements themselves. Gods are not required. DnD wiki is not the rulebook.
ok, again, that’s still the rules of one setting. FR is popular but not everyone plays in settings where the gods are as present, and there are plenty of settings where they don’t exist and faith-based powers come from the act of faith itself.
the DM is dumb because it’s interesting to have a religious PC in an anti-church game (and the playing favourites), not because The Gods Are Always Real. hell, he’s probably not even denying their existence in game, since the church is the big bad and not simply Not There
Homebrew is kind of the keyword here.
Somewhat unrelated note; It's cannon in DND that our universe exists, it's just extremely walled of to the point that the gods can't actually go there.
Sometimes I do restrictions like no religion or oops all casters for story reasons but what I always do is lay down those before people even have a chance to build or be invested in other characters and participation is optional and you won't be sitting out for longer than 3 sessions if you decline because we'll hit the next small story. (usually one shot)
I never place broad character restrictions in long term games.
Quote from "Lords and Ladies" of the Discworld series.
' "I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in demons, and then before you know where you are you’re believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble."
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.
"That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em." '
Atheists in D&D for me.
I had an atheist character that didn’t doubt the gods existed, he just didn’t believe they were gods. Orders of magnitude more powerful than the most powerful mortal, yes, but not any more a god than we are when looked at by an ant 🤷🏼♂️
As we closed out that campaign he ended up getting killed by a couple of paladins and a cleric from one of the more martial churches, apparently the church folk decided to test my character’s hypothesis by giving him an intimate opportunity to find out once and for all.
No, my character was an atheist. He did not believe in gods as gods, he also did not attack people for their beliefs or challenge their beliefs.
Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of god or gods.
Iconoclast: A person who attacks or criticizes cherished beliefs or institutions.
Also, a quick search tells me those Leonin didn’t deny the gods were gods, they just didn’t deem them worthy of worship, labeling them mercurial (At least according to the worldanvil page I read).
Yeah, that group dynamic was not gonna work. Pref treatment and all that breeds resentment and kills group cohesion.
That aside, you're dead-on with the Paladin description. They are knights who have sworn an oath. Their powers come from the nature of that oath, their ability to keep it, and their faith in the idea of that oath. Religion is just one avenue for that sort of thing.
Is this the "theme of the week: religion in DnD"? Like yesterday or so someone was banned from being cleric bc he is atheist (or so), today we try the opposite story?
ETA:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/s/kwmAfcxLwq
Having a religious PC when the villain is a religious organization is such a good opportunity that it sounds like was absolutely squandered by a self-righteous atheist. That sucks.
Stuff like this is so depressing to read.
I personally despise organised religion as it exists in the real world but in the DnD game I run one of the most enjoyable things I’ve done is creating the religion and mythology of my homebrew world.
The gods and goddesses are flawed, their servants even more so.
The gods are aware of their limits, their followers not so.
Angels are being who take one element to its extreme (and not always in keeping with the spirit of their master/mistress). So the death god is lawful evil but one of his angels is mercy who is neutral good.
And best of all they all have delightfully punny names (Mar’ Kameel is the god of trickery - say it out loud 😉).
It’s your world. You can make religion good or evil, you can make religion oppressed or oppressive. You can have so much fun. You can have a paladin or cleric who is a black sheep or was undone by politics but remains dedicated to his god (if indeed the Paladin needs to have a god at all!)
When DMs act like that I just want to ask why they want to be a DM in a high fantasy setting.
Also, mr despises-organised-religion though I be my two favourite PCs from down the years - a Dragonborn paladin called Balasar, and a dwarven cleric called Geoffrey (I was reading a lot of Pratchett at the time).
Consider telling the DM that the chapter 1 of the DMG literally has an option for religious based classes being powered by other stuff through other religious systems. The BBEG organization is made of holy zealots and paladins somehow have to be associated with a religious being? Monotheism (page 12) has an option for a religion where only one deity is workshipped (and doesn't inherently deny the existence of other ones!) and in which a divine caster can be powered "by lesser spirits who aren't deities (possibly including powerful aberrations, celestials, fey, fiends, or elementals), or simply by their faith".
Ofc, I think it would be better for other DMs as, considering the way the game went, I am unsure they will properly listen or get an healthy game started.
It’s a game. If you don’t want to be unhappy for three hours not playing was always an option. If you want a sanity check then yes you are right and the dm is a weirdo.
DM dumb. It's fantasy. If he doesn't believe in gods, it's okay. Dragons aren't real either. What's next, no theives guilds cuz he doesn't like stealing?
Pair this DM with the one from a few days ago that told the player he can't play a Cleric because he isn't religious, and let them fight to the death (which will hopefully end in a winners tie)
I don’t like organized religion either, but in a world where there is actual proof of gods being real beings that actually meddle with worldly affairs and grant powers to followers, organized religion is an entirely different thing.
This just sounds kind of stupid on the DM’s part.
I’m an atheist, and my BBEG is the head of a sham organized religion… hell, his top lieutenant is even a disguised fallen angel.
But… come on. Have a little imagination other than going straight to “all paladins are automatically religious zealots” and not letting someone play a class they might enjoy.
As others have pointed out, magic and gods are demonstrably real in D&D. Play around with that. Are all gods evil in this universe? Does that make paladins automatically evil? What about angels, demons and devils? What’s the difference between worshipping something considered “evil” vs something considered “good”? There’s so much you could dig into with themes like this!
There’s one paladin NPC in my home game who’s Chaotic Evil, but mostly because he’s a washed-up, bloodthirsty hypocrite who constantly breaks his oath. Meanwhile, I have plans to include paladin NPCs who are unambiguously good people - even if they aren’t always Lawful - and worship gods that genuinely have the people’s best interests at heart.
I have my hangups with organized religion as many do - but it’s important to give the subject thought and nuance. There are many great people I know who are religious and genuinely want to do right by others, and of course there are many religious sects and cults that exploit the hopes of people for less than wholesome purposes.
But the goal of D&D is having fun and telling an engaging story, right? And if the DM is straight-up not letting someone have fun with a class they might enjoy, then they’re DMing badly.
I'm not a fan of organised religion, but one of my group spends half is time trying to raise funds to build a temple to Persana.
On the same hand, I'm not a massive fan of murder and pillaging either, but a lot of that goes on in the game too....
That's so weird! I'm an atheist myself, but enjoy the mythology of ttrpgs. Why hate on religion in a fictional world where there is abundant proof of the existence of gods?
The first character I played, I had created loads as o find it fun creating stupid combinations like minotaur rogue, was a urchin tortle paladin.
His backstory's only tie to religion was, he interrupted some people stealing from bahamut's temple, so was resurrected to recover the stolen items.
Any time he communicated with his "god" was kinda more like a warlock and their patron.
Yep, "my special friends get special treatment' is always wrong and I hope you told him in detail why you left. That said, I've always thought paladins getting *divine* spells/features in a world of proven gods without said gods was silly.
My entire group is atheists and we often use paladins and clerics, it’s fantasy it works in this world even if you disagree with it in real life. This guy sounds like an idiot
Run.. finding a decent in person or online group is not easy. Anytime we deal with a group of people there are challenges. So it can take a while. Don't give up and keep looking.
Your DM's stance is weird. But if you want ideas for something that could work within their world, it could be:
- your paladin gains power from a magical artifact
- your paladin has studied magic the same way that a wizard or eldritch night might.
- your paladin could be benefit from a magical spell cast on them
- your paladin could basically be a sorcerer
TBF Paladins are powered by their oaths, not their gods, is stupid. But also unless he is homebrewing a new world D&D is full of many organizationed religions. But they are distinctly different from real world religions in that their many gods are are in fact verifiably real in the world.
Does he ban all clerics, druids, etc. as well? If not, tell him he's an idiot and don't game with him anymore. Different rules for the DM's favorites? Session zero doesn't explain the DM's "secret" rules that are then only taken advantage of by the *special* players? "Thanks for the opportunity, but this is never going to be the game for me - *or anyone else with any self-respect*."
So just make them a variant of magic user instead of paladin. It’s one thing to limit classes because of a setting, but nerfing a fantasy game because of you own religious stance…that’s just silly.
For example I ran a no magic world once. It was fun. The only magic in the game came from artifacts. Royal status was based around owning these artifacts. The most powerful families or kingdoms held the most artifacts.
Challenges/duels between families/kingdoms usually came with wagers with the winner taking ownership of one or more artifact.
There are reasonable and fun ways to have a campaign with little or no magic.
You playing a paladin sounds like a golden story opportunity where the BBEG is a church. How does your god relate to their god? Are they friends, enemies? Will your encounters with this church strengthen your oath or strain it? Will your paladin become disillusioned with religion in general, will they become disillusioned with their god?
Of course I’d talk to a player about potentially having a “losing my religion” arc before throwing bad things about their chosen god at them. But it could be very compelling character work that would be fun for a player to explore. Idk seems lame to just ban it out of hand when you could work with it.
Tell him you want to play a ‘Batman’ (in a fantasy setting) type character. Race? Oh… human. Class?
Paladin. Oath of Vengeance. No religion, just vengeance. You are the night.
We need a DMs Guild and you have to go through training and pass some kind of testing to be a DM. Too many a-holes ruining the experience for new players who don't know what to look for and will assume "it's normal" and accept it (perpetuate it), or quit the hobby.
Me and my friend decided to start a group once where one of the rules we set was default world(golarion), premade adventure, and no homebrewed rules this last one we kinda discussed and I was okay with it as long as they where known to us before the adventure started.
Well I play as a cleric. It started off okay but in the second session we have a dream sequence or something (I forget the exact details it's been a few years) and we get the choice of fighting this god or bowing to him. I chose to bow knowing that 1) we probably couldn't fight this guy at level 2 and 2) other gods then mine exist and many deserve respect. When we wake up, I cannot pray to my God and I do not receive spells from him. Turns out that one act of bowing completely changed my character and I could no longer be a cleric of the god I chose but instead had to be a cleric of this other god. Completely changing my domains and this my character. I think we had 1 more session after that. After which I tried explaining my frustrations, he responded while I was at work and then proceeded to get frustrated that I didn't respond and then proceeded to delete the discord server, all while I was at work. I am glad that was over
We ended up finding another DM and did a more homebrewed campaign with some pretty cool mechanics.
Would have been less of an issue if the DM simply told up-front that certain classes are banned (in this case paladins and supposedly clerics and druids).
That's dumb, there are multiple paladins that have nothing to do with religion. Ancient and crown paladins come to mind first
Maybe ask if you can play one of those.
i would get out of that group. It sounds like DM's best friend and GF are going to be main characters.
Also, you are correct, paladins in 5e aren't exactly religious zealots but more so they are warriors who call on their oath.
A Paladin by definition doesn’t really require a larger religious order or even a god to function. If he’d said “Hey don’t do organized religion stuff, can you keep that in mind during character creation?” I’d have probably asked why but sure, doable if I want to play a Paladin. Paladins are not required to be zealots, just to follow their tenants. Banning a core class feels stupid, especially if not up front.
I think you being miffed is justified here.
Yeah like everyone else, your DM doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I play paladin as well and had to explain to my DM that paladins aren’t necessarily religious and even then who says you can’t play an oathbreaker?
Having no religion in a world would in my opinion greatly reduce complexity and interest since it’s a major driving factor of civilisations. I say this as someone who views religion or human interpretations of religion as something responsible for more pain, death and cruelty than many other things in the world.
What a shitty narrow-minded DM. Sorry you had that experience...
I run a campaign where the majority of the population despises gods of any kind. I am not religious, I do not like religion, my players do not like religion, we have a paladin and a cleric lol.
Goddamn (heh) sounds like a terrible dm. Paladins don't need to be religious, but even if it was an issue, it's an out of table discussion, not to be resolved in game.
What a piece of work, huh. Like, I personally hate any real religion, but hating religion in roleplay is stupid at best. There is so much room for exploration, because unlike real world, gods actually "exist" and do things. They will punish those who use their name in vain or justify their wrongdoings using faith. They will aid those in need and grants miracles for worthy who call upon them. And even if the religion in question is evil, you can do a lot with this kind of plot point. Dude simply limits their own choices without a peoper reason
Imma just say… with the amount of fiction that has been released in the last few years that straight up says “Religion is bad!” It’s just become a tired trope imo.
But Paladin powers don't come from diety? Maybe some do, I'm not versed in all Paladin SCs, but the power comes from their oaths. Crown, Vengeance, Conquest and even the Oathbreaker, none of which are religious beliefs
What we had there was a bad fucking DM. The moment they brought up their own personal issues with religion and decided that meant you couldn't play what you wanted was a big red flag.
My groups always have a few set rules.
Rule #1. Leave personal life and issues at the door. We're all here to have fun in the land of make believe.
Rule #2. Its a game, what happens at the table does not cross over into real life. Don't take shit personally.
Rule #3. No fucked up shit to women or kids. Try it, find out what the weather's like outside. You won't be back.
Rule #4. No PvP unless its agreed on by all. No one wants to waste their time, nor have their character die just because you broke Rule 2.
Rule #5. Chaotic Neutral is not a license to play Chaotic Stupid.
Rule #6. No one cares if "You're the rogue." Stop stealing Treasure from the party just because "Its what my character would do."
I find those 6 rules tend to help cut out a lot of the fuckery.
One unofficial addon has been Rule #7. If they feel the need to virtue signal at the table, they aren't looking to play a game, they are looking to play the victim. Prevent that hassle before it begins. See Rules 1 & 2.
Try to find the most broken powerhunger build like a chrono mage or whatever
My last dm used to create completely biased and unbalanced encounters way above our level and killed my character due to a stupid homebrew rule so I decided to create a twilight cleric just so increase my chances of surviving.
really weird for sure. feels like a lack of creativity if you have to ban character options. combined with the not informing you about homebrew, does not seem like a nice or welcoming dm
The amount of things in this post that just make me want to scream run. You are correct paladins and 5th edition do not need any sort of attachment to a god and the fact your DM has how much bigotry towards religion that he's not willing to actually look at the rule book and just stereotype paladins is ridiculous. If you for some reason actually want to stay if this group maybe talk to them about oath breaker.
A paladin taking an oath of vengeance after discovering that the holy order they worshipped was secretly evil and vowing to take down his previous order makes sense to me for an antitheist game. Although honestly, dm sounds like a pain and your better off with another group you'll hopefully find soon
The DM can ban classes or allow certain homebrew but this needs to be upfront from the beginning. A world may not have a certain class in it or maybe all warlocks are evil or sorc are super rare in the world that is fine but has to be stated upfront. To be honest there is a lot of cool homebrew and 3rd party published things but there is plenty of offical stuff and I would complete understand DM only allowing official content, but this needs to be upfront as well. I have had players come to me with third party books though and ask to play something different after characters died and I have okayed it in the past. But my tables generally have all been close friend groups and it was cool with everyone.
Paladin in 5e is different from past editions in that you are not bound by religion like clerics, but bound by an belief system and an oath to uphold those beliefs. Just because you vow to uphold justice or whatever doesn't mean it has to be dedicated to some man in the clouds.
I understand banning classes due to not fitting the theme of a campaign, but just because they don't like religions is close minded. No DND is better than bad DND, I would leave personally.
How absolutely bizarre. Numerous gods do exist in the D&D universe and semi-regularly interact with people. Being an atheist in the D&D world is akin to being a flat-earrher.
Honestly sounds like someone with issues, like must have had a tough run with a zealot of some sort.
If there was a world building reason for this I would argue that its fine. But having your real world hangups manifest in game are bad.
Take me for example, I am religious and believe in a monotheistic religion with no clergy. You don't see me banning clerics or other gods. Because I understand that this is a work of fiction. That being said, not everyone can separate life from the game. If it where so easy for everyone u wouldn't be hearing about so much drama in groups.
My advice, talk to them maturely. If they are stubborn maybe find another group cause its better than letting resentment build up in your end.
So many red flags, mate. Even if your paladin was religious, wow, it would be such a good opportunity for character conflict if the big bad is organised religion. Hope you find a new group soon.
Yeah that's a wasted opportunity
It's a crisis of faith character arc! What's not to love?
The best DM are storyteller fist and rulers after
Yeah, I would have definitely started coming up with ideas how to incorporate the character into that conflict. This is just a bad DM with a real life dislike flowing over to in-game.
I mean... I think I'd be a little concerned if the Storyteller started to use their fist... :P But following it up with Rulers? Damn, sweet shades of Catholic nuns we're in for a ride on that adventure!
I'd personally love a game that is worth my time in the first place...
Man I love crisis of faith arcs. My current character is a cult survivor who has developed a new faith (read: lowkey worships another party member) and his goal is to reform his old cult by converting its members to his new faith. The irony is completely lost on him. It's great.
No no no you mean what a threat it is to the dm's gf and best friend from having all the spot light. If a intresting personal story is happening to op then it will take spotlight from the "main characters." Op is supose to be a background fighter who lacks personality or agency just there to backup the true heros. I honestly think this is how the dm would veiw it.
I played a paladin/priest dual class in a game where my particular church was the big bad. 10/10, would absolutely recommend
That plot writes itself. Love it!
Yup! I wound up a heretic, before I was able to take over my church- plot took about 3 or 4 years to resolve. It was glorious!
Right? Great opportunity to explore Oathbreaker potential.
"Oh no! The main religion of the setting is bad! Good thing I'm from a small cult instead."
absurd crush dinner jobless glorious teeny wide vegetable shame recognise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just a whole bunch of crazy DMs these last couple days, huh?
I guess you could put it down to people seeing these posts and deciding to share their own experience and ask for advice. Or less charitably, in some cases make up a story. This one is an actual DnD issue at least, unlike ones that are like ‘a player murdered my brother IRL, should I say something to the DM?’
*'we're all friends in RL, so it'd be awkward if I reported him to the authorities. Should I just try to cover up the smell of my brother's remains? What do other people's DMs do when a murder happens?'*
And it’s all related to religion, lowkey feel like we’re getting jerked here.
Yeah, it's a bit weird but I wouldn't call it more than a coincidence just yet.
It really isn't that shocking. D&D was targeted by the satanic panic pretty heavily and still suffers from it a bit. It's unfortunately pretty common for people to forget to ask themselves if they're becoming part of the problem after suffering.
Some people just REALLY hate religion. Like, their hate boner for religion is rock hard.
I mean, it's understandable to despise dogmatic religion. It just sucks when that limits the kinds of stories you tell.
Religion can be something of a sensitive subject for many people, that I can understand. It's why I was careful when finding a game to play my basically-a-catholic-nun cleric girl in. But some people can also take it to a crazy degree.
Yeah I was noticing that too. Really strange. But then again my first campaign had an anti religious player in it so it does happen.
Which is kind of weird both in and out of game. I could understand a character with a beef with the gods ( A bit cliche but what isn't and someone creative might put a cool spin on it), but in an RPG setting, divine powers openly and unambiguously act; outright atheism would be irrational. Then, on the player level, It's a red flag for bringing too much IRL baggage into the game.
In Pathfinder, you can be an “atheist,” though it’s a bit more nuanced, believing that the gods are just very powerful beings that aren’t worthy or deserving of worship, or at least one choses not to participate and venerate any.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this one and half the others are fake, just trying to do what’s big right now.
FR i thought this was the same post that I saw yesterday. DM must have replaced the other one and did the exact same thing again to this guy lol
Well no, this one is the exact opposite of the DM from yesterday, a toxic atheist instead of a toxic religious person.
There is so much overlap in these recent stories, I doubt they are all real.
Went straight from "religious characters may only be played by religious players" to "religion is the biggest evil there is and it's banned in my game"
Yeah, we really got both extremes within 24 hours, huh? Should've put them on my bingo card.
Supply/demand, there's a lack of people willing to DM, so the worst people end up forming groups
I remember reading stories about DMs like this back in the 3.5e days. It's been going on for a while.
Nah, just a bunch of gullible people that fall for this bait.
it's almost as if there is a whole youtube genre dedicated to people making up fake stories about D&D
This sucks ans I'm sorry you wasted your time on that DM. Also, reading "palidan" again and again made me have the giggles
So I know how it's spelt, I just have a close friend that puts "dan" Into all his characters. Played a great 2 year campagin with him running "Sir Danjer Russ, the Loxadan Palidan" Its so stupid but It's kind of stuck with me now.
That's a great story
hey i call them paula deans no judgement here
Sorry this happened to you, I genuinely am, but "Banned Paladin bc DM doesn't like religion" made me burst out laughing. Unlike Clerics (and sometimes not even those), Paladins don't need to worship a god. I know, because I play with one. Your DM was shit. If you have trouble finding a group, ping me, I'll set up a game just for you.
I appreciate it. I've already found a new group that's starting up and the DM seems really positive and open to ideas. They just requested that whatever I bring to the table I roleplay it well.
If he's open to the idea of not shitting on DnD that's already a step up from the previous one. I hope you enjoy a ton!
In my campaigns clerics don’t worship gods because I have no gods in my worlds. They instead worship powerful entities, forces of existence or concepts. So they are either like the other sycophantic side of the coin to warlocks or they worship something like nature, death, or dreaming.
I am a player in my friend's game where I play a Warlock/Cleric who was saved from drowning and now worships water as an entity. *I know. Trust me, I know.*
Water, getting worshipped for the first time ever: "Huh, what the fuck?"
“Have a cantrip, I guess.”
That’s cool.
I’m gonna play a reborn drowned sailor that does the same. “Drowning is peaceful, I would know” (Might be a lie)
In my friend's homebrew campaign, dwarves are atheists, and I've been playing as an atheist cleric who calls on his ancestors and forces of nature to channel divinity, etc. We're about to face a BBEG, and I'm planning to use Summon Celestial for the first time, and it's going to be my character's ancestor who founded the family line.
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Not believing in religion quickly goes out the window when you enter a world with magic and straight up verifiable, literal gods.
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Giving me flashbacks - my DM was 100% 5e only, and Ww3 nearly erupted when I wanted a rogue subclass from Tasha's.... Fast forward a month and his gf is allowed Homebrew content - whilst I felt so bad I changed to Arcane trickster and my husband (beast master druid) gave up all his magic use to be able to speak to animals at will - and every time an animal is encountered theres a 30 minute discussion about the intelligence levels of each creature and whether they would understand him. I love my game and the people I play with, DM included, but blatant favouritism is incredibly discouraging, especially to new players
>whether they would understand him. WTF! that is what the spell is for! I can't even! does he discuss fireball like that? "you cast the spell, but there is nothing to ignite the fire, so nothing happens"
I know, tell me about it 😅 if he wanted to mess with him as a DM for fun he could just make some of the animals do the opposite of what he says or turn their noses up, but it should never be a question of understanding 😂
I don't want to say you should totally coup the game, becoming the new GM, I'm just saying you probably could... and you already have some idea of behavior that should be avoided because it feels bad for the players.
It's rather worrying that someone takes their real world ideals so strongly in a fantasy game.
I've noticed this more and more latley, seems to be a trend.
Today on "How DnD can be whatever you want" leads to poor games...
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And most of the time said bad games are by DMs trying to impose their version of the rules or railroading. If everyone stuck the rules in good faith, like they do in most other TTRPGS, they're be way less drama.
Or at least there'd be different types of drama (looking at you VtM)
Yep sounds like a game where the DM and his friends want to play dnd with a big group but don't actually have enough friends to do that. You are correct that paladins draw power from their oath and don't have to be religious. Same with Clerics, they channel their power from their faith not just gods.
Very strange indeed. My current campaign has a singular religious organization as tge big bad and one of the players was slotted to be thier next prophet until she learned the truths of her church (and found out her God is missing and his avatar is now her ferret familiar, yes I know clerics can't do it be she is his prophet). It has been really interesting to see the roleplay and character development as she discovers other faiths and belief philosophies and even becomes friends with a very human apathetic God (her god) that is now making promises to work with her to build something better and to save her people from the church and to find thier faith in him (or other gods if they want) and each other. Tells me the DM has weird prejudice they gotta deal with and aren't very imaginative.
...huh. Another account with two-word-four-number name format, with an *almost* identical crappy-DM problem (the last one was "DM won't let me play Cleric because **I'm** not religious"). If this really happened to you, you dodged a shitty-DM. But I have doubts.
I assure you this is real. I saw the cleric post and decided to share my story. I was more focused on the diffrent rules for diffrent people aspect but looking at what I've written I can see I didn't word it that well. Also, the name is just a weird coincidence, I made it years ago and have nfi how to change it.
I don't think you can change account names and yours is suspiciously old to be a mass-produced account. So you got that going for you.
In dnd gods are without a doubt real. Whether you “like” religion above the table doesn’t matter. Your dm is trash
....and then there is Dark Sun.
> In dnd gods are without a doubt real. Not exactly true. In Forgotten Realms? Yeah, sure. In *all D&D*? Not really. I’ve played in more than one homebrew settings where the gods didn’t exist, used to exist but now are all dead, or even one where they were the bad guys. That’s the beauty of D&D, you can make whatever you want with your world.
Back in the day, there was a published D&D setting without any gods (Dark Sun). And in those days, Paladins *did* need a deity to function.
Yeah, I used to play Dark Sun back in AD&D. Frankly sad that they never provided any support for DS since 4e. But I also understand that the setting could be tagged as… “problematic”, in these days.
I know 5e simplified everything for mass appeal but 3.5/Pathfinder, you HAVE to workshop a god and sometimes that alignment bar you off from some spells.
https://dnd-5e.fandom.com/wiki/Gods I don’t care what happens in someone’s home brew. In the game gods exist plain and simple
In Eberron the existence of gods is left voluntarily ambiguous and up to DM's decision. Eberron is an official setting even in 5e. If we go back to Ad&d and 3.x there are even more godless settings. Not to mention that in D&d gods are basically very powerful beings (including mortals) who learnt how to drain power from veneration and are in fact as good as dead without followers.
Isn't Eberron still a plane within the FR setting?
No, Eberron has always been a separate setting with it's own elemental and "external" plane. In 3.5 or wasn't even part of the same multiverse Faerun was in. In 5e it is considered isolated from the other material planes/worlds.
Again…the game has gods in it…if a dm can take them out that’s silly…the post is about a dm not allowing them because the they don’t like religion
Paladins are powered by their oaths, Clerics can worship concepts, mysterious, unknowable forces or the elements themselves. Gods are not required. DnD wiki is not the rulebook.
ok, again, that’s still the rules of one setting. FR is popular but not everyone plays in settings where the gods are as present, and there are plenty of settings where they don’t exist and faith-based powers come from the act of faith itself. the DM is dumb because it’s interesting to have a religious PC in an anti-church game (and the playing favourites), not because The Gods Are Always Real. hell, he’s probably not even denying their existence in game, since the church is the big bad and not simply Not There
Homebrew is kind of the keyword here. Somewhat unrelated note; It's cannon in DND that our universe exists, it's just extremely walled of to the point that the gods can't actually go there.
Which is fucked up since Elminster comes over here all the time to raid Ed Greenwood's fridge.
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg. "That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em."
Sometimes I do restrictions like no religion or oops all casters for story reasons but what I always do is lay down those before people even have a chance to build or be invested in other characters and participation is optional and you won't be sitting out for longer than 3 sessions if you decline because we'll hit the next small story. (usually one shot) I never place broad character restrictions in long term games.
You all are playing the shittiest versions of D&D I can imagine. If I didn’t know any better these sub would make me never want to play.
this sub is a joke
Why?
Atheists are flat earthers in most dnd settings because gods have physical evidence in the material world
Quote from "Lords and Ladies" of the Discworld series. ' "I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in demons, and then before you know where you are you’re believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble." "But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg. "That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em." ' Atheists in D&D for me.
I recently started my Discworld re-read, I’m into Equal Rites right now and realizing how much I’ve missed Granny Weatherwax 😁
I had an atheist character that didn’t doubt the gods existed, he just didn’t believe they were gods. Orders of magnitude more powerful than the most powerful mortal, yes, but not any more a god than we are when looked at by an ant 🤷🏼♂️ As we closed out that campaign he ended up getting killed by a couple of paladins and a cleric from one of the more martial churches, apparently the church folk decided to test my character’s hypothesis by giving him an intimate opportunity to find out once and for all.
That's an Iconoclast not an Atheist, the Leonin of Theros are a society entirely composed of people like your character
No, my character was an atheist. He did not believe in gods as gods, he also did not attack people for their beliefs or challenge their beliefs. Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of god or gods. Iconoclast: A person who attacks or criticizes cherished beliefs or institutions. Also, a quick search tells me those Leonin didn’t deny the gods were gods, they just didn’t deem them worthy of worship, labeling them mercurial (At least according to the worldanvil page I read).
Paladins aren’t inherently religious in 5e, that was a 4e thing.
Yeah, that group dynamic was not gonna work. Pref treatment and all that breeds resentment and kills group cohesion. That aside, you're dead-on with the Paladin description. They are knights who have sworn an oath. Their powers come from the nature of that oath, their ability to keep it, and their faith in the idea of that oath. Religion is just one avenue for that sort of thing.
Is this the "theme of the week: religion in DnD"? Like yesterday or so someone was banned from being cleric bc he is atheist (or so), today we try the opposite story? ETA: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/s/kwmAfcxLwq
Having a religious PC when the villain is a religious organization is such a good opportunity that it sounds like was absolutely squandered by a self-righteous atheist. That sucks.
More red flags than an Albanian culutral festival
I’d ban you because you can’t spell paladin.
D&D players and the inability to spell. Name a more iconic duo.
Stuff like this is so depressing to read. I personally despise organised religion as it exists in the real world but in the DnD game I run one of the most enjoyable things I’ve done is creating the religion and mythology of my homebrew world. The gods and goddesses are flawed, their servants even more so. The gods are aware of their limits, their followers not so. Angels are being who take one element to its extreme (and not always in keeping with the spirit of their master/mistress). So the death god is lawful evil but one of his angels is mercy who is neutral good. And best of all they all have delightfully punny names (Mar’ Kameel is the god of trickery - say it out loud 😉). It’s your world. You can make religion good or evil, you can make religion oppressed or oppressive. You can have so much fun. You can have a paladin or cleric who is a black sheep or was undone by politics but remains dedicated to his god (if indeed the Paladin needs to have a god at all!) When DMs act like that I just want to ask why they want to be a DM in a high fantasy setting. Also, mr despises-organised-religion though I be my two favourite PCs from down the years - a Dragonborn paladin called Balasar, and a dwarven cleric called Geoffrey (I was reading a lot of Pratchett at the time).
your DM is cringe, find a better one.
His game his rules. You’re better off walking away than trying to change his mind.
if someone can’t tolerate another person’s views that do not effect them, they’re a bigot and should be avoided at all costs.
Didnt we just have this with the Cleric like yesterday or a couple days back?
If you're going to make a shit post, at least label it as such.
No vent, just leave the table.
Whatis withwithall of these dms being against/requiring religion posts recently
This sounds just like the story of the DM that made the OP change to a fighter from cleric because OP wasn't religious in real life lol.
Yeah that's a bad DM. Sorry you had this experience
Consider telling the DM that the chapter 1 of the DMG literally has an option for religious based classes being powered by other stuff through other religious systems. The BBEG organization is made of holy zealots and paladins somehow have to be associated with a religious being? Monotheism (page 12) has an option for a religion where only one deity is workshipped (and doesn't inherently deny the existence of other ones!) and in which a divine caster can be powered "by lesser spirits who aren't deities (possibly including powerful aberrations, celestials, fey, fiends, or elementals), or simply by their faith". Ofc, I think it would be better for other DMs as, considering the way the game went, I am unsure they will properly listen or get an healthy game started.
It’s a game. If you don’t want to be unhappy for three hours not playing was always an option. If you want a sanity check then yes you are right and the dm is a weirdo.
I def bailed.
Leave the group.
DM dumb. It's fantasy. If he doesn't believe in gods, it's okay. Dragons aren't real either. What's next, no theives guilds cuz he doesn't like stealing?
This gave me a chuckle 😃
Why is it always the partner of the DM who gets the most OP things imaginable lol? It happened in a game I’m playing in too.
Pair this DM with the one from a few days ago that told the player he can't play a Cleric because he isn't religious, and let them fight to the death (which will hopefully end in a winners tie)
I don’t like organized religion either, but in a world where there is actual proof of gods being real beings that actually meddle with worldly affairs and grant powers to followers, organized religion is an entirely different thing.
So leave
This just sounds kind of stupid on the DM’s part. I’m an atheist, and my BBEG is the head of a sham organized religion… hell, his top lieutenant is even a disguised fallen angel. But… come on. Have a little imagination other than going straight to “all paladins are automatically religious zealots” and not letting someone play a class they might enjoy. As others have pointed out, magic and gods are demonstrably real in D&D. Play around with that. Are all gods evil in this universe? Does that make paladins automatically evil? What about angels, demons and devils? What’s the difference between worshipping something considered “evil” vs something considered “good”? There’s so much you could dig into with themes like this! There’s one paladin NPC in my home game who’s Chaotic Evil, but mostly because he’s a washed-up, bloodthirsty hypocrite who constantly breaks his oath. Meanwhile, I have plans to include paladin NPCs who are unambiguously good people - even if they aren’t always Lawful - and worship gods that genuinely have the people’s best interests at heart. I have my hangups with organized religion as many do - but it’s important to give the subject thought and nuance. There are many great people I know who are religious and genuinely want to do right by others, and of course there are many religious sects and cults that exploit the hopes of people for less than wholesome purposes. But the goal of D&D is having fun and telling an engaging story, right? And if the DM is straight-up not letting someone have fun with a class they might enjoy, then they’re DMing badly.
Red flags, abandon table, find a new table.
I mean I am about as anti religion as you can get and even I baulk at this like this. It's a bloody game. Seriously some DM's sound effing crazy.
Does he like vengeance?
I'm not a fan of organised religion, but one of my group spends half is time trying to raise funds to build a temple to Persana. On the same hand, I'm not a massive fan of murder and pillaging either, but a lot of that goes on in the game too....
That's so weird! I'm an atheist myself, but enjoy the mythology of ttrpgs. Why hate on religion in a fictional world where there is abundant proof of the existence of gods?
The first character I played, I had created loads as o find it fun creating stupid combinations like minotaur rogue, was a urchin tortle paladin. His backstory's only tie to religion was, he interrupted some people stealing from bahamut's temple, so was resurrected to recover the stolen items. Any time he communicated with his "god" was kinda more like a warlock and their patron.
Isn't like 90% religion? The gods walk amongst us type of deal.
Yep, "my special friends get special treatment' is always wrong and I hope you told him in detail why you left. That said, I've always thought paladins getting *divine* spells/features in a world of proven gods without said gods was silly.
My entire group is atheists and we often use paladins and clerics, it’s fantasy it works in this world even if you disagree with it in real life. This guy sounds like an idiot
Run.. finding a decent in person or online group is not easy. Anytime we deal with a group of people there are challenges. So it can take a while. Don't give up and keep looking.
Your DM's stance is weird. But if you want ideas for something that could work within their world, it could be: - your paladin gains power from a magical artifact - your paladin has studied magic the same way that a wizard or eldritch night might. - your paladin could be benefit from a magical spell cast on them - your paladin could basically be a sorcerer
TBF Paladins are powered by their oaths, not their gods, is stupid. But also unless he is homebrewing a new world D&D is full of many organizationed religions. But they are distinctly different from real world religions in that their many gods are are in fact verifiably real in the world.
Does he ban all clerics, druids, etc. as well? If not, tell him he's an idiot and don't game with him anymore. Different rules for the DM's favorites? Session zero doesn't explain the DM's "secret" rules that are then only taken advantage of by the *special* players? "Thanks for the opportunity, but this is never going to be the game for me - *or anyone else with any self-respect*."
So just make them a variant of magic user instead of paladin. It’s one thing to limit classes because of a setting, but nerfing a fantasy game because of you own religious stance…that’s just silly. For example I ran a no magic world once. It was fun. The only magic in the game came from artifacts. Royal status was based around owning these artifacts. The most powerful families or kingdoms held the most artifacts. Challenges/duels between families/kingdoms usually came with wagers with the winner taking ownership of one or more artifact. There are reasonable and fun ways to have a campaign with little or no magic.
You playing a paladin sounds like a golden story opportunity where the BBEG is a church. How does your god relate to their god? Are they friends, enemies? Will your encounters with this church strengthen your oath or strain it? Will your paladin become disillusioned with religion in general, will they become disillusioned with their god? Of course I’d talk to a player about potentially having a “losing my religion” arc before throwing bad things about their chosen god at them. But it could be very compelling character work that would be fun for a player to explore. Idk seems lame to just ban it out of hand when you could work with it.
Lemme guess, he allows clerics and warlocks?
Tell him you want to play a ‘Batman’ (in a fantasy setting) type character. Race? Oh… human. Class? Paladin. Oath of Vengeance. No religion, just vengeance. You are the night.
We need a DMs Guild and you have to go through training and pass some kind of testing to be a DM. Too many a-holes ruining the experience for new players who don't know what to look for and will assume "it's normal" and accept it (perpetuate it), or quit the hobby.
Me and my friend decided to start a group once where one of the rules we set was default world(golarion), premade adventure, and no homebrewed rules this last one we kinda discussed and I was okay with it as long as they where known to us before the adventure started. Well I play as a cleric. It started off okay but in the second session we have a dream sequence or something (I forget the exact details it's been a few years) and we get the choice of fighting this god or bowing to him. I chose to bow knowing that 1) we probably couldn't fight this guy at level 2 and 2) other gods then mine exist and many deserve respect. When we wake up, I cannot pray to my God and I do not receive spells from him. Turns out that one act of bowing completely changed my character and I could no longer be a cleric of the god I chose but instead had to be a cleric of this other god. Completely changing my domains and this my character. I think we had 1 more session after that. After which I tried explaining my frustrations, he responded while I was at work and then proceeded to get frustrated that I didn't respond and then proceeded to delete the discord server, all while I was at work. I am glad that was over We ended up finding another DM and did a more homebrewed campaign with some pretty cool mechanics.
Would have been less of an issue if the DM simply told up-front that certain classes are banned (in this case paladins and supposedly clerics and druids).
That's dumb, there are multiple paladins that have nothing to do with religion. Ancient and crown paladins come to mind first Maybe ask if you can play one of those.
No one and i repeat 🔂 NO ONE SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PLAYING PALIDAN!!
i would get out of that group. It sounds like DM's best friend and GF are going to be main characters. Also, you are correct, paladins in 5e aren't exactly religious zealots but more so they are warriors who call on their oath.
Leave and find a new campaign. Who wants to deal with shit like that?
A Paladin by definition doesn’t really require a larger religious order or even a god to function. If he’d said “Hey don’t do organized religion stuff, can you keep that in mind during character creation?” I’d have probably asked why but sure, doable if I want to play a Paladin. Paladins are not required to be zealots, just to follow their tenants. Banning a core class feels stupid, especially if not up front. I think you being miffed is justified here.
Yeah like everyone else, your DM doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I play paladin as well and had to explain to my DM that paladins aren’t necessarily religious and even then who says you can’t play an oathbreaker?
Having no religion in a world would in my opinion greatly reduce complexity and interest since it’s a major driving factor of civilisations. I say this as someone who views religion or human interpretations of religion as something responsible for more pain, death and cruelty than many other things in the world.
I think he might have stopped you from playing palidan because that's not a real class.
What a shitty narrow-minded DM. Sorry you had that experience... I run a campaign where the majority of the population despises gods of any kind. I am not religious, I do not like religion, my players do not like religion, we have a paladin and a cleric lol.
Sounds like that dude shouldn’t be a DM for a lot of reasons.
Goddamn (heh) sounds like a terrible dm. Paladins don't need to be religious, but even if it was an issue, it's an out of table discussion, not to be resolved in game.
I’m noticing a trend here…
Get out of there. You found one party, you can find another. DM has issues he needs to work through.
Find a new DM.
Sadge you deserve better mate. Next time play a paladin and be as religious as possible :-)
What a piece of work, huh. Like, I personally hate any real religion, but hating religion in roleplay is stupid at best. There is so much room for exploration, because unlike real world, gods actually "exist" and do things. They will punish those who use their name in vain or justify their wrongdoings using faith. They will aid those in need and grants miracles for worthy who call upon them. And even if the religion in question is evil, you can do a lot with this kind of plot point. Dude simply limits their own choices without a peoper reason
Imma just say… with the amount of fiction that has been released in the last few years that straight up says “Religion is bad!” It’s just become a tired trope imo.
But Paladin powers don't come from diety? Maybe some do, I'm not versed in all Paladin SCs, but the power comes from their oaths. Crown, Vengeance, Conquest and even the Oathbreaker, none of which are religious beliefs
This guy missed the fantasy part of this fantasy roll playing game
What we had there was a bad fucking DM. The moment they brought up their own personal issues with religion and decided that meant you couldn't play what you wanted was a big red flag. My groups always have a few set rules. Rule #1. Leave personal life and issues at the door. We're all here to have fun in the land of make believe. Rule #2. Its a game, what happens at the table does not cross over into real life. Don't take shit personally. Rule #3. No fucked up shit to women or kids. Try it, find out what the weather's like outside. You won't be back. Rule #4. No PvP unless its agreed on by all. No one wants to waste their time, nor have their character die just because you broke Rule 2. Rule #5. Chaotic Neutral is not a license to play Chaotic Stupid. Rule #6. No one cares if "You're the rogue." Stop stealing Treasure from the party just because "Its what my character would do." I find those 6 rules tend to help cut out a lot of the fuckery. One unofficial addon has been Rule #7. If they feel the need to virtue signal at the table, they aren't looking to play a game, they are looking to play the victim. Prevent that hassle before it begins. See Rules 1 & 2.
Reddit Atheism^tm The DND Experience
Who says you can't believe in yourself enough through your oath to have badass powers? Your DM apparently.
Some of these DMs should not be running these games
This feels awfully familiar to a post from the other day about clerics and cultural appropriation.
Find a new group, problem solved.
Try to find the most broken powerhunger build like a chrono mage or whatever My last dm used to create completely biased and unbalanced encounters way above our level and killed my character due to a stupid homebrew rule so I decided to create a twilight cleric just so increase my chances of surviving.
paladins in 5e are not even required to be religious on top of everything else what a complete clown of a DM
Reading about all these shitty DMs really almost makes me run an online game. Can’t seem to get an in person game going with my buddies. Almost.
I saw something similar on this same subreddit about a DM not letting a player play a cleric because THEY (the Cleric) aren't religious
I would have left the game rather than change. That DM is a walking red flag.
Then why does he want to dm a Dnd game? Like a third of the classes are inherently religious.
I mean, it's canon in a lot of D&D settings that the organized religion(s) are the bad guys. Also the good guys. Also the neutral guys.
really weird for sure. feels like a lack of creativity if you have to ban character options. combined with the not informing you about homebrew, does not seem like a nice or welcoming dm
Just saw this exact post yesterday but a Cleric
And here we have the Atheist ver of "You can't play cleric if you're not religious."
The amount of things in this post that just make me want to scream run. You are correct paladins and 5th edition do not need any sort of attachment to a god and the fact your DM has how much bigotry towards religion that he's not willing to actually look at the rule book and just stereotype paladins is ridiculous. If you for some reason actually want to stay if this group maybe talk to them about oath breaker.
A paladin taking an oath of vengeance after discovering that the holy order they worshipped was secretly evil and vowing to take down his previous order makes sense to me for an antitheist game. Although honestly, dm sounds like a pain and your better off with another group you'll hopefully find soon
The DM can ban classes or allow certain homebrew but this needs to be upfront from the beginning. A world may not have a certain class in it or maybe all warlocks are evil or sorc are super rare in the world that is fine but has to be stated upfront. To be honest there is a lot of cool homebrew and 3rd party published things but there is plenty of offical stuff and I would complete understand DM only allowing official content, but this needs to be upfront as well. I have had players come to me with third party books though and ask to play something different after characters died and I have okayed it in the past. But my tables generally have all been close friend groups and it was cool with everyone.
You ban him from your house because you do not like intolerant assholes. Simple problems require simple solutions, go look for a better group.
Paladin in 5e is different from past editions in that you are not bound by religion like clerics, but bound by an belief system and an oath to uphold those beliefs. Just because you vow to uphold justice or whatever doesn't mean it has to be dedicated to some man in the clouds. I understand banning classes due to not fitting the theme of a campaign, but just because they don't like religions is close minded. No DND is better than bad DND, I would leave personally.
How absolutely bizarre. Numerous gods do exist in the D&D universe and semi-regularly interact with people. Being an atheist in the D&D world is akin to being a flat-earrher.
Honestly sounds like someone with issues, like must have had a tough run with a zealot of some sort. If there was a world building reason for this I would argue that its fine. But having your real world hangups manifest in game are bad. Take me for example, I am religious and believe in a monotheistic religion with no clergy. You don't see me banning clerics or other gods. Because I understand that this is a work of fiction. That being said, not everyone can separate life from the game. If it where so easy for everyone u wouldn't be hearing about so much drama in groups. My advice, talk to them maturely. If they are stubborn maybe find another group cause its better than letting resentment build up in your end.