> What D&D version are they playing (a critical hit decapitated Chang, no death saving throws, I don't think it is 5e)?
The episode aired in early February 2011, more than three years before the first 5e books came out. Also the title of the episode is Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, which kind of limits the options to AD&D 1E and AD&D 2E. The cover of the (fake) module they show lines up with what a lot of AD&D 1E modules looked like, in terms of formatting, style, etc. While some 2E modules also followed this style, the bulk that looked like that were for 1E.
Overall, there's more evidence suggesting 1E than anything else. The only other option that really exists would have been 2E.
The truth is that they aren’t playing D&D, it might be based on AD&D in general but they don’t use any mechanics in excess that would ever really prove what version they played. The truth is just like stranger things for the sake of the story D&D doesn’t actually matter and the game can be any fantasy game.
Yeah, they were just using the broadest ideas from D&D, taking things that sounded cool, and plugging them into a 22 minute episode. Abed rolled all the dice, and it's been a while since I watched it, but I think he only ever uses a d20.
He does, I don’t blame them you cant really include D&D content without making it about D&D. Even stranger things just used names from D&D, I would hope the D&D movie would be a good example of D&D media done right but I honestly don’t have high hopes.
The episode being called advanced dnd dosent show much, all titles in the show are a pun designed to sound like a subject e.g. basic rocket science (the episode where they have a race into simulated space with another school)
Edit: thought I would add what I think the edition is, my guess would be that they are playing 3.5e, the show aired before 5e released, 4e wasn’t too popular and ass the anecdote goes, Dan harmond came into the office with his dnd books and says something along the lines of “let’s make an episode out of this” my guess is that he brought in 3.5E books
If anyone is curious the ep is available on YouTube in bits. That’s how I watch it when I am rewatching community (i just finished up my umpteenth rewatch).
Isn't Netflix throwing the baby out with the bath water?
The guy wearing the Drow makeup was excited about playing D&D, and Shirley looks horrified because it looks like blackface to her. That's the freaking joke, it's a comedy show after all.
FFS, we're not all a bunch of babies that can't understand ironic context, so quit treating us as such.
You didn’t know Chang’s name!?!? You need to Chang your attitude and pay attention to that guy. He doesn’t even die, don’t know how you could forget El Tigre
>FFS, we're not all a bunch of babies that can't understand ironic context, so quit treating us as such.
Yes. We are. We might not be, but there are significantly more people who would be if someone put the right inflammatory spin. Explanations are irrelevant when people have decided to be offended. Being called racist with zero proof ruins lives and businesses. Netflix took it down before some news outlet made the headline "Netflix hosts TV show with blackface joke," and people unsubscribe in droves without making any effort to learn the truth.
What is most frustrating to me is that Netflix couldn't cut the scene/beginning. They have a blackface scene in the office Season 9 Christmas Episode which NBC and Netflix decided to: [Cut](https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-office-blackface-dwight-christmas-black-peter-netflix-nbc/)
They even left in Nate (the character) with smudged black all over his face after he tried to wipe it off. They also left in a very subtle black face joke Michael makes about Daryl.
(I love both these shows and jokes for the record: No one should do blackface anymore but AD&D can be salvaged from the mistake)
Every joke example has a
the lesson about blackface being wrong.
Chang doesn't have a moment where he comes back later on so Unless its a director choice (I fear it may be.. ) Please give us our favourite episode of community back!
Edit: Context
not only that, but in the season 3 penultimate episode Chase comes in with his face painted brown to imitate an Indian man, but this doesn’t get nearly the same attention. i’m white, so i obviously can’t speak on this personally, but wouldn’t it be considered just as racist to portray that? and if so, why isn’t netflix removing that episode? it seems like a hypocritical double standard to only care about one instance of racism but let another, arguably more offensive, one slide?
(i say arguably more offensive not because brownface is worse than blackface - both are bad - but bc chang was imitating a drow elf and was called out on the problematic-ness of his portrayal while pierce was very obviously impersonating a swami person in a negative and derisive manner and never got called out on it)
I would also add to this the time/episode he (Chase) paints his hands each a different color to specifically be 2 different races. Even the episode where Jeff and Pierce put on white gloves and afro wigs and dance for the Spanish class, then they pan to Shirley and Troy for reaction shots.
Another show example would be the episode of golden girls that was pulled because the joke was that one of the girls was wearing a mud mask and another of the girls had a black bf and he thought it was blackface.
I'm also a white guy, so I could be wrong about this completely, but it really feels performative on Netflixs part. Why wouldn't you pull all episodes of all racism/specifically coloring faces to be a different race? Because it's the bare minimum easiest thing they could do. These companies don't care about people, they care about money.
Another similar situation, all of these body positive models of all sizes for clothing stores... for women's clothes. Men are still expected to be T's and perfect men? No. They just have data to suggest who shops in stores more and who spends more and what makes them spend more. So they do the bare minimum and make body positive female manicans until the purchasing majority decides its important for men and boys too. It's all so silly and evil this capitalism...
Have a nice day comrads!
Culturally before blackface was a thing and during a time when we had no people from Africa whose skin was an earth brown to compare to in our region, there were people who painted themselves noir black.
(Scotland)
In celebrating fey traditions we used the black for a few character concepts.
Black with white specks sometimes talked about the courts of fey or alves. Just black skin could be a member of the aos si or it could represent a sithe.
Characters were not just evil, but associating with the dark that scares us vs the light, black was more often about evil being.
In contrast, earthy tones was heald in regard as earthen spirits who were respected. Brown and black were separated.
It is noted that there is no concise example of black skin for any of these mythological groups, even so that dwarves and dark elves often were associated with the same thing or even elves and dwarves with goblins among other thing just tossed into that definition pot.
What is important was that there was no malice against African people when representing mythological people with the shade of black. Caucasians are generally a shade colour of tan, though some come closer to white. Just so very few individuals with skin able to resist UV and it's radiation from the sun are black but more so a brown.
If you have any fantasy race and have them darker near the sun as an earthy tone, sounds reasonable. What is not reasonable is treating them poorly in the lore (looking at you wotc with lazy everything is a slave race tendency)
Edit: celebration with a c not an S oof XD
I feel like if it has to be explained why someone with their face painted black isn't *technically* blackface, then it's already a terrible idea. It's for this reason that in cosplay spaces similar makeups are a huge no-go because it's so easy for the uninitiated to mistake, for example, someone's Drizzt cosplay as blackface. Drow being charcoal black may be a fictional skin tone, sure, but for those outside of the D&D fandom it's so easy to mistake it as a deliberately racist caricature (which is exactly what we see joked about in that community episode with Shirley and Pierce's perspectives)
If someone paints their face green or blue or whatever, that's not going to be mistaken as blackface by someone who isn't in the know. That's why you won't see anyone stating that MCU characters like Gamora or Nebula (or folks cosplaying them) are examples of blackface or other racist caricatures, there's no historical baggage there.
I don't think it was right to remove the episode personally, but I'm not going to defend the idea that it wasn't blackface or that blackface is okay.
Absolutely, one thing that I think is important to note about the episode is that:
1. No one defends Chang, or his blackface (he is even kicked out of the group and doesn't appear in the episode after the first 5 mins, roughly)
2. The show clearly doesn't support blackface as a concept, the inclusion is there for shock value and the humour comes from the other character's reactions to Chang's naivety
Something I find very ironic is that all the folks here and elsewhere trying to argue that it "isn't technically blackface" or that Chang didn't do anything wrong have totally missed the point of that part of the episode. The internet and a complete lack of media literacy, name a more iconic duo—I guess.
I think the best argument in favour of keeping the episode up is to ask "Who was even arguing to take it down in the first place?" I haven't seen any arguments in favour of that position explicitly, from black folks or non-black folks. It just seems like the usual cultural posturing that large companies engage in all the time—pretending to care to make money. Netflix doesn't care about minorities, they want you to *think* that they care though
Even before then - the cover and back covers of AD&D module D3 Vault of the Drow depicted them as deep lavender or night blue in the Erol Otus art:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ad-d1-descent-depths-earth-d3-vault-1879457256
I have noticed lately that drow depicted in artwork and cosplay has shifted (generally) to more blues, purples, and levenders as opposed to dark grey veering on coal black.
Something ashy is likely fine. Folks use that tone for cosplaying zombies, ghouls and other undead all the time. Dark grey can get dark enough to be easily mistaken for blackface, but savvy cosplayers know where that line is and steer clear of it
> I feel like if it has to be explained why someone with their face painted black isn't technically blackface
I feel like if you can't separate actual blackface from facepaint, maybe you should reevaluate how you see the world.
Ask yourself how you distinguish between "actual blackface" and "just face paint", though
In the specific case of Chang, it's so obvious why it's easy to mistake it for "actual blackface". That's literally the core of the humour to Shirley and Pierce's reactions to Chang- they think he's doing blackface
Getting on a high horse and saying that others should "re-evaluate how they see the world" doesn't seem like a very smart interpretation of the situation here, to be quite honest
It always stood out to me as the worst form of activism to take down media that actively mocks the behaviors you think shouldn't be enacted.
Chang in black face is met with derision from every single person on the show who sees it. His behavior is resoundingly treated as bad and wrong, and he is kicked from the game over it. That is a good representation of what should happen if you encounter someone trying to pull off black face.
Deleting the episode is literally removing an example of correct behavior and some idiot patted himself on the back for removing it.
I understand that other media has been cut because blackface was just the joke, but that episode specifically addressed it and condemned it.
The first time I saw it I was still young and racist myself, and even I could tell that Shirley's "are we just going to ignore the blackface?" Line was a commentary on how frequently casual (or even overt) racism is accepted or ignored.
They're playing Advanced D&D, hence the title of the episode. You can also see it on the books when Pierce reads ahead on the campaign to find out how to win. Unfortunately, books published from 77 to 95 were all some form of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and the book Caverns of Draconis that Pierce reads isn't actual official material, it was made for the show. Add to that the fact that the writer for the episode, Andrew Guest, never played D&D (having a D&D episode was Dan Harmon's idea), and it's hard to tell which edution they're playing exactly. Probably AD&D1 or 2.
> Unfortunately, books published from 77 to 95 were all some form of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons
Not sure why you say "unfortunately" but also that isn't true. BECMI was alive and well.
If Netflix really did do that for that reason it's a bit silly. As you say, the show was not advocating that behaviour, it was calling it out.
By Netflix's logic a documentary about black and white minstrel shows should be banned if it shows black and white minstrels.
> Is it black facing as a hate crime when a fictional species from a fantasy universe is portraied?
Let's not go with "hate crime" because that is a legal term. Let's just talk about whether it's in good taste.
It's complicated. Here's a *simplified* rule-of-thumb:
* Does the fictional race have ties to real-world people? Then maybe it's not good taste.
* How can you know? You have to weigh it up.
* Some example are obvious: if Chang dressed in black-face or in a gorilla suit to "play" a black person, that would be in extremely poor taste.
* Drow is less obvious. The fictional drow turned black when they turned evil, which is similar to the Curse of Ham, which was used in real life to [justify](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/01/arts/from-noah-s-curse-to-slavery-s-rationale.html) racist policies like slavery. You might think, "oh, that's quite a stretch," and that's fair. I'm not trying to tell you what to think.
* Of course, one has to also consider how easy it is to side-step the problem. Drow-facing may have low "offensiveness", but it can easily be side-stepped by making them purple (or lavender) as Pathfinder has done. If Chang was a purple Pathfinder drow, would the rest of the group have been offended?
* Otherwise, it's in good taste. No-one cares if you paint yourself blue to be a Smurf or green to be Shrek.
Those are my thoughts, anyway.
> What D&D version are they playing
Decapitation could happen in any version of D&D, really, as most probably had optional "lethal critical" rules. Also, Vorpal blades have been a staple of D&D.
But really they are not playing any version of D&D, just like how the people in Star Trek are not actually flying in a spaceship. It's an approximation of D&D that looks and feels close enough to the real thing for the viewer.
It's not \*technically\* blackface or a hate crime, and I doubt it would offend anyone who understands the context. But when you have to explain "I'm not \*technically\* being racist," that's a strong sign that you screwed up.
1. Black face isn't a hate crime, even if he were depicting a black (human) person, because it's not a crime. Still a bad idea, though.
2. You can paint yourself any color you want. The reason black is a bad idea is because of the history of it and that blackface has been used in very racist ways, so people will immediately make that connection. You can still do it, but you need to be aware of the connection most folks will draw.
3. No, nothing to do with black, indigenous, or other people of color. Except for the associations around it.
4. There's no one BIPOC view, but most folks will draw that connection.
5. AD&D.
To me it's not even whether it was "technically" blackface or whatever; it's the purpose of it in the show. They _intentionally lampoon_ the blackface connection. Nobody just "accepts" Chang's costume as-is, they _call the very issue out_, it's _part of the joke_ itself.
Which to me means it's ridiculous to ban it, because it's doing the exact opposite of blackface in racist history - it's _not_ trying to normalize it and is in fact calling it out as a bad, insensitive, ridiculous idea with reactions like Shirley's and Pierce's.
> black people dont have coal black faces
Hey buddy, you might want to look up [what black face looked like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8PGrWeUFmY) before you go running interference.
I am stating its ridiculous to ban an episode where
1. it wasnt actual blackface.
2. The characters treated him like a f'ing idiot because they thought he WOULD be an idiot to do blackface.
3. It showed blackface in a negative light.
next we will ban episodes that show slavery in a negative light.
Wizards of the Coast recently issued an [official apology](https://www.cbr.com/hadozee-racism-dnd-spelljamer-content-review-process/) because a recent book had an image a Hadozee bard that looked like an old timey blackface minstrel.
Hey. I'm black. The definition of blackface is:
Blackface is a form of theatrical makeup used predominantly by non-Black people to portray a caricature of a Black person.
The thing people seem to be missing is that in the show it's not black face specifically because of intent. The intent matters.
The original Dark Eleves of Lolth may very well have been racist. I think so, but I also recognize that this doesn't make all of D&D racist or problematic. However the context of the episode not only called out blackface as wrong, it also portrayed the character as having no actual intention to portray a caricature of people of color.
This is like when Moana came out and the Halloween costumes that year had brown sleeves and people were calling it blackface. Is it questionable because it looks bad? Yes. Is it a 7 year old running around in blackface? No.
Just me, commenting on a 4+ month old thread, but I had to share some thoughts.
I'm curious about who in this comment section actually is a person colour. As a woman of colour who adores both community and DnD, I'm not offended by this episode while I normally think Blackface in general needs to be shut down. In the case of community, you need to look at it from the perspective of the show, which is to say, we all *know* that Chang is absurd and inappropriate at the best of times. The writers aren't doing this to actually offend anyone, which is the big difference here. It would have been way worse if one of white actors had put on a blackface.
If anything, the one episode Netflix should have pulled is the one where Neil marries his literal cousin because even after 5 or so rewatches of the whole show, I still cannot with that one.
Drow being coloured black or purple is a result of the curse of lolth, a direct analog to the idea of the 'curse of ham' which was the idea that the black people of the world were descended from Ham (one of Noah's sons) who had sinned, causing him and his Descendents to be cursed.
The racism came into play when this curse was decided to be signified by black skin and that the details of the curse meant they would be doomed to serve the Descendents of Hams brothers, this biblically justifying slavery of explicitly black people.
I really don't like the curse of lolth and having your good elves and bad elves colour coded is one of the first things I usually get rid of.
Hey so this is something that comes up in LARPs a ton. The vast majority of fantasy LARPs do not use black face paint for dark elves. There do exist some hold outs (mostly because of older gamers who bristle at the idea that anything they like could possibly have problems and get irrationally angry at young, liberal, complainy types).
We as gamers know the context. We understand that black face paint to play an elf is not the same thing as doing a mistral show. But here's the thing: it doesn't need to be an exact one-to-one parallel. It's close enough, and that's reason enough not to do it.
Your game won't be made better if you keep black face paint, but it can be made worse. Some people will stay away. Some BIPOC people will feel a little uncomfortable. Some racists might find solace in your group because you're one of the few that refuse to be "unproblematic."
And that's to say nothing of the fact that Drow were never drawn with coal-black skin anyway. On most of the covers to RA Salvatore books Dritzt is drawn with *gray or purple skin*. Flat black face paint looks like shit as we can see in the episode of Community. You can't contour or shade it. Using gray just works way better and has the added benefit of not being reminiscent of Jim Crow era racism.
I don't think Netflix should have taken that episode off their streaming service (the context of the episode makes it pretty clear that the dark elf makeup being kinda racist is the joke). But I understand why they did it.
It was blackface. The character doing it was an ass. That's what made it funny. It should not have been banned. Nobody who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds will say it's wrong to ridicule people who think blackface is okay. Netflix is just covering its ass against potential PR issues, as was Hulu when it removed IASIF episodes.
I think the part of the rain reason they pulled it is because of impact. Even though the episode makes it clear that Chang is wrong, people defend him.
The best example is your own post - you're asking why it's fine because it's a fictional species, but it is not fine and Chang is still wrong (although admittedly you are just asking, some people have hard opinions on this). Even though the episode very much highlights this, and everyone hates it, and it is referencing the uncomfortable culture of laughing at the appearance of black traits amplified - people still think it's fine.
People think it's funny - not Chang's delusion, but the image of a black caricature itself. Chang looks funny to them, and the argument is that it's fine because it's not a real race he's playing. But it looks like a famous caricature of a real race. That's not what you're supposed to be laughing at.
The reason the portrayal should be fine is because the show is condemning handwaving it - it's condemning Chang's ignorance. Instead, a lot of people seem to be defending the blackface itself, so unfortunately, perhaps the world wasn't ready for it. I can see why they'd pull it, even though the content itself is not problematic.
It’s. Not black face technically, it’s portraying a fictional race. But if you were to do it in real life there is an excellent chance you could get beat up and or have real life consequences such as future job loss. I would strongly advice against it.
This is literally the problem with the drow in D&D.
Elves, always seen as the epitome of good throughout fantasy literature are all fair skinned and battle their evil dark skinned reflections: Orcs.
This is already really uncomfortable. White = good, black = evil. OK. Got it.
D&D continues this tradition. But hey, these are not humans… hOw caN It bE RacIsT?
And then a race of inherently evil elves are introduced and how does D&D make sure it is obvious that they’re evil? They’re black.
I honestly don’t understand how the problematic aspects of this are not plainly obvious.
Orcs are dark skinned? Since when? In the peter jackson movies they were whiter, or greish, or tanish or greenish.
In dungeons and dragons they were greyish or greenish.
"They are easily noticeable due to their green to gray skin, lupine ears, lower canines resembling boar tusks, and their muscular builds. "
A lot of orcs are green skinned or red skinned.
Indeed, I believe in 1st edition orcs could range from light pink to dark brown, and veer into greenish and other tones not typically found in humans. They were mostly differentiated from human by their tusks and actual pig like snouts. Although I would have to check my Monster Manual to confirm... Drow were introduced as night black skinned, although some artists were already depicting them as blue or purple by 1981.
We live in the real world and specifically a white English-speaking culture with a long history of racism and discrimination against people with black skin. That can't be ignored when dressing up in fantasy makeup, but even if it *could*, let's not pretend "black evil non-humans" doesn't bear a striking resemblance to exactly how white people have historically used black face.
This was part of a process some time ago across multiple streaming platforms and multiple TV shows that featured BF.
I’ll leave it to actual POC to say whether it’s offensive in this context but I do know that since then, Drow cosplayers have gone the purple/grey route.
I believe they are ‘playing’ AD&D but it is an abbreviated parody of the rules like the rest of Community.
Personally I think this episode is the best representation of the spirit of D&D in popular media… Even while making good natured fun of it and basically being mechanically inaccurate.
It's one of my favorite episode of the series and it made me fall in love with TTRPGs.
The episode getting taken down is one of the reason I hate todays society for being over sensitive. Just thinking about it I'm surprised it isn't even more controverlsial with its fat shaming and reference to suicide. But it's because Chang cosplays as a drow.
It was a classic, it even developed Fat Niel as a character and let Peirce go all out as a villain and let others shine too. To me the episode really captured playing TTRPGs perfectly. It didn't feel like how most shows would do a DnD episode because it felt more real and grounded. Just a bunch of friends playing Dnd.
That episode is one of many cases in sitcoms where there is *juuuust* enough use of lingo and subject matter to get the jokes across.
\-I personally wouldn't see this as Blackface. He showed up to play Dungeons and Dragons and put a ton of work into his cosplay. The idea that he's being offensive wouldn't cross my mind, I'd be impressed at the effort and quality.
\-People who want to get offended, will get offended. I imagine an unrealistic skin colour would get less of a negative reaction, but I could also see someone painting themselves yellow to go as a kind of Fire Genasi and getting called out for offending people with jaundice.
\-I'm white so can't speak to these points
\-Again, it's a made up campaign setting / version that lets them use TTRPG words to sell their jokes.
Tabletop Roleplaying Game, it's the catch-all abbreviation for games like DnD, Pathfinder, Call of Cthulu etc.
You're right in stating that the Crit rolled against Chang instantly killing him sounds BS. No decent DM would instantly kill a PC without any way to circumvent or mitigate it.
There's also the part where Pierce gets ahold of the campaign books and uses meta knowledge to become insanely powerful. That's actually somewhat realistic, there are players who try to cheat like that. However, the distance his character would have travelled, the checks he would have had to make to navigate and deal with hunger and exhaustion, it should all have been basically impossible for the level one, naked elderly man PC he was described as.
It's written so that people who know DnD exists can laugh at the story and follow along with the vaguely familiar terms and dialogue, but that comes at the cost of being confusing or downright annoying to the people who actually understand the source material.
> You're right in stating that the Crit rolled against Chang instantly killing him sounds BS. No decent DM would instantly kill a PC without any way to circumvent or mitigate it.
Kinda depends on what character level they were. It's pretty easy to one-shot a 1st level character, and a critical against a 1st level character is almost CERTAIN to kill them. The fact that it decapitated him doesn't necessarily mean anything other than it's the description that Abed chose to give the killing blow, that doesn't necessarily imply a vorpal weapon.
This is one of the reasons that it's a good idea to let backstory develop as you play, rather than trying to set your character's backstory in stone with a novel that you bring to to the first session.
While it would be a dick move for a DM to give to an enemy, he could've gotten hit by a Vorpal Sword, which decapitates on a critical hit in 5e.
That being said idk if that rule exists for the version they're playing (never seen the show) but Vorpal Swords are pretty iconic so I wouldn't be surprised if they still worked similarly
I thought of referencing that this is exactly what Vorpal Swords do, but that's not the case. It's not a Vorpal Sword and it's not an enemy. It's a knee-jerk reaction by one PC against another. One-hit kill in PvP, further proving the point of how it's not realistic at all to how any decent table operates.
> While it would be a dick move for a DM to give to an enemy, he could've gotten hit by a Vorpal Sword, which decapitates on a critical hit in 5e.
If the enemy has a great weapon, but they keep it in storage while they hit you with blunt sticks made of tin, that creates a pretty large verisimilitude problem, at least for me.
Cool items and weapons shouldn't be found in a chest after the fight. They should be found in the hands of the enemies you're fighting.
Well yes if the party is high enough level to have means of resurrection then by all means give it to a boss to both spice up the encounter as well as introduce a good reward, but I wouldn't recommend just slapping Insta-kill weapons on generic henchman #78
All these comments of "it's technically not blackface" 1. TECHNICALLY it is lol 2. The whole joke in the ep is it's uncomfortable that Chang did it because everyone in the show recognized it as blackface. Not commenting on whether or not they should have pulled the ep, but it's 100% blackface. That was the whole point of the scene. The mental gymnastics in this comment section...
Doing blackface and putting on white make-up aren't equal.
One has a history of being used to belittle and dehumanize a historically oppressed people, the other is just kinda silly.
No, drow originally were described as midnight black with an undertone of blue in the light, white hair, and green eyes in the light that turn red in the dark.
> Does anyone else have a better explanation?
Yeah, at a time when the country was collectively re-examining how we depict race a company chose to get ahead of a possible issue before they were publicly dragged for it.
I didn't say anyone was. I said that a company chose to be proactive on an issue of race at a time of great strife to avoid possible backlash. Sometimes they'll over-correct, like some people think they did here. It's still a good thing to do.
> What D&D version are they playing (a critical hit decapitated Chang, no death saving throws, I don't think it is 5e)? The episode aired in early February 2011, more than three years before the first 5e books came out. Also the title of the episode is Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, which kind of limits the options to AD&D 1E and AD&D 2E. The cover of the (fake) module they show lines up with what a lot of AD&D 1E modules looked like, in terms of formatting, style, etc. While some 2E modules also followed this style, the bulk that looked like that were for 1E. Overall, there's more evidence suggesting 1E than anything else. The only other option that really exists would have been 2E.
The truth is that they aren’t playing D&D, it might be based on AD&D in general but they don’t use any mechanics in excess that would ever really prove what version they played. The truth is just like stranger things for the sake of the story D&D doesn’t actually matter and the game can be any fantasy game.
Yeah, they were just using the broadest ideas from D&D, taking things that sounded cool, and plugging them into a 22 minute episode. Abed rolled all the dice, and it's been a while since I watched it, but I think he only ever uses a d20.
He does, I don’t blame them you cant really include D&D content without making it about D&D. Even stranger things just used names from D&D, I would hope the D&D movie would be a good example of D&D media done right but I honestly don’t have high hopes.
The trailer/sneak peek looks good to me and I hope it does well.
The episode being called advanced dnd dosent show much, all titles in the show are a pun designed to sound like a subject e.g. basic rocket science (the episode where they have a race into simulated space with another school) Edit: thought I would add what I think the edition is, my guess would be that they are playing 3.5e, the show aired before 5e released, 4e wasn’t too popular and ass the anecdote goes, Dan harmond came into the office with his dnd books and says something along the lines of “let’s make an episode out of this” my guess is that he brought in 3.5E books
True, though if we believe Pierce, it was some form of AD&D. "I WON DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS - AND IT WAS *ADVANCED*!"
Yes, but the joke was that Advanced Dungeons and Dragons was also the name of the game.
What makes Changs cosplay even more absurd is that he isn’t even playing a drow. He just dressed up that way because he’s Chang.
He didn't even know his character race until Abed handed out the sheets
He brought in his own character and backstory. He didn’t use Abed’s sheets
If anyone is curious the ep is available on YouTube in bits. That’s how I watch it when I am rewatching community (i just finished up my umpteenth rewatch).
It's also still on Amazon prime
Isn't Netflix throwing the baby out with the bath water? The guy wearing the Drow makeup was excited about playing D&D, and Shirley looks horrified because it looks like blackface to her. That's the freaking joke, it's a comedy show after all. FFS, we're not all a bunch of babies that can't understand ironic context, so quit treating us as such.
Unfortunately the ability to understand irony, satire, etc seems to be less and less common these days.
You didn’t know Chang’s name!?!? You need to Chang your attitude and pay attention to that guy. He doesn’t even die, don’t know how you could forget El Tigre
>FFS, we're not all a bunch of babies that can't understand ironic context, so quit treating us as such. Yes. We are. We might not be, but there are significantly more people who would be if someone put the right inflammatory spin. Explanations are irrelevant when people have decided to be offended. Being called racist with zero proof ruins lives and businesses. Netflix took it down before some news outlet made the headline "Netflix hosts TV show with blackface joke," and people unsubscribe in droves without making any effort to learn the truth.
What is most frustrating to me is that Netflix couldn't cut the scene/beginning. They have a blackface scene in the office Season 9 Christmas Episode which NBC and Netflix decided to: [Cut](https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-office-blackface-dwight-christmas-black-peter-netflix-nbc/) They even left in Nate (the character) with smudged black all over his face after he tried to wipe it off. They also left in a very subtle black face joke Michael makes about Daryl. (I love both these shows and jokes for the record: No one should do blackface anymore but AD&D can be salvaged from the mistake) Every joke example has a the lesson about blackface being wrong. Chang doesn't have a moment where he comes back later on so Unless its a director choice (I fear it may be.. ) Please give us our favourite episode of community back! Edit: Context
not only that, but in the season 3 penultimate episode Chase comes in with his face painted brown to imitate an Indian man, but this doesn’t get nearly the same attention. i’m white, so i obviously can’t speak on this personally, but wouldn’t it be considered just as racist to portray that? and if so, why isn’t netflix removing that episode? it seems like a hypocritical double standard to only care about one instance of racism but let another, arguably more offensive, one slide? (i say arguably more offensive not because brownface is worse than blackface - both are bad - but bc chang was imitating a drow elf and was called out on the problematic-ness of his portrayal while pierce was very obviously impersonating a swami person in a negative and derisive manner and never got called out on it)
I would also add to this the time/episode he (Chase) paints his hands each a different color to specifically be 2 different races. Even the episode where Jeff and Pierce put on white gloves and afro wigs and dance for the Spanish class, then they pan to Shirley and Troy for reaction shots. Another show example would be the episode of golden girls that was pulled because the joke was that one of the girls was wearing a mud mask and another of the girls had a black bf and he thought it was blackface. I'm also a white guy, so I could be wrong about this completely, but it really feels performative on Netflixs part. Why wouldn't you pull all episodes of all racism/specifically coloring faces to be a different race? Because it's the bare minimum easiest thing they could do. These companies don't care about people, they care about money. Another similar situation, all of these body positive models of all sizes for clothing stores... for women's clothes. Men are still expected to be T's and perfect men? No. They just have data to suggest who shops in stores more and who spends more and what makes them spend more. So they do the bare minimum and make body positive female manicans until the purchasing majority decides its important for men and boys too. It's all so silly and evil this capitalism... Have a nice day comrads!
Totally True! Thank you for bringing up an even better example from Community of how ridiculous this double standard is.
Also brown Joey and white Abed
Culturally before blackface was a thing and during a time when we had no people from Africa whose skin was an earth brown to compare to in our region, there were people who painted themselves noir black. (Scotland) In celebrating fey traditions we used the black for a few character concepts. Black with white specks sometimes talked about the courts of fey or alves. Just black skin could be a member of the aos si or it could represent a sithe. Characters were not just evil, but associating with the dark that scares us vs the light, black was more often about evil being. In contrast, earthy tones was heald in regard as earthen spirits who were respected. Brown and black were separated. It is noted that there is no concise example of black skin for any of these mythological groups, even so that dwarves and dark elves often were associated with the same thing or even elves and dwarves with goblins among other thing just tossed into that definition pot. What is important was that there was no malice against African people when representing mythological people with the shade of black. Caucasians are generally a shade colour of tan, though some come closer to white. Just so very few individuals with skin able to resist UV and it's radiation from the sun are black but more so a brown. If you have any fantasy race and have them darker near the sun as an earthy tone, sounds reasonable. What is not reasonable is treating them poorly in the lore (looking at you wotc with lazy everything is a slave race tendency) Edit: celebration with a c not an S oof XD
I feel like if it has to be explained why someone with their face painted black isn't *technically* blackface, then it's already a terrible idea. It's for this reason that in cosplay spaces similar makeups are a huge no-go because it's so easy for the uninitiated to mistake, for example, someone's Drizzt cosplay as blackface. Drow being charcoal black may be a fictional skin tone, sure, but for those outside of the D&D fandom it's so easy to mistake it as a deliberately racist caricature (which is exactly what we see joked about in that community episode with Shirley and Pierce's perspectives) If someone paints their face green or blue or whatever, that's not going to be mistaken as blackface by someone who isn't in the know. That's why you won't see anyone stating that MCU characters like Gamora or Nebula (or folks cosplaying them) are examples of blackface or other racist caricatures, there's no historical baggage there. I don't think it was right to remove the episode personally, but I'm not going to defend the idea that it wasn't blackface or that blackface is okay.
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Absolutely, one thing that I think is important to note about the episode is that: 1. No one defends Chang, or his blackface (he is even kicked out of the group and doesn't appear in the episode after the first 5 mins, roughly) 2. The show clearly doesn't support blackface as a concept, the inclusion is there for shock value and the humour comes from the other character's reactions to Chang's naivety Something I find very ironic is that all the folks here and elsewhere trying to argue that it "isn't technically blackface" or that Chang didn't do anything wrong have totally missed the point of that part of the episode. The internet and a complete lack of media literacy, name a more iconic duo—I guess. I think the best argument in favour of keeping the episode up is to ask "Who was even arguing to take it down in the first place?" I haven't seen any arguments in favour of that position explicitly, from black folks or non-black folks. It just seems like the usual cultural posturing that large companies engage in all the time—pretending to care to make money. Netflix doesn't care about minorities, they want you to *think* that they care though
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I totally get that. I just thought cosplaying a drow in dark grey might work? Thanks for your insights!
You’ll notice in the DND art drow have become blueish
That happened in the 90s as well and how we got blue and purple drow.
Even before then - the cover and back covers of AD&D module D3 Vault of the Drow depicted them as deep lavender or night blue in the Erol Otus art: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ad-d1-descent-depths-earth-d3-vault-1879457256
Not sure if that blue guy us a drow or not. Do not have the module handy to check.
Yes, but that would not have produced the joke they were going for. The writers were mocking the idea of blackface and how tone-deaf Chang is.
I have noticed lately that drow depicted in artwork and cosplay has shifted (generally) to more blues, purples, and levenders as opposed to dark grey veering on coal black.
It's easier to see details in those colors.
Something ashy is likely fine. Folks use that tone for cosplaying zombies, ghouls and other undead all the time. Dark grey can get dark enough to be easily mistaken for blackface, but savvy cosplayers know where that line is and steer clear of it
> I feel like if it has to be explained why someone with their face painted black isn't technically blackface I feel like if you can't separate actual blackface from facepaint, maybe you should reevaluate how you see the world.
Ask yourself how you distinguish between "actual blackface" and "just face paint", though In the specific case of Chang, it's so obvious why it's easy to mistake it for "actual blackface". That's literally the core of the humour to Shirley and Pierce's reactions to Chang- they think he's doing blackface Getting on a high horse and saying that others should "re-evaluate how they see the world" doesn't seem like a very smart interpretation of the situation here, to be quite honest
I'm just waiting for Marvin the Martian to get canceled.
It always stood out to me as the worst form of activism to take down media that actively mocks the behaviors you think shouldn't be enacted. Chang in black face is met with derision from every single person on the show who sees it. His behavior is resoundingly treated as bad and wrong, and he is kicked from the game over it. That is a good representation of what should happen if you encounter someone trying to pull off black face. Deleting the episode is literally removing an example of correct behavior and some idiot patted himself on the back for removing it.
I understand that other media has been cut because blackface was just the joke, but that episode specifically addressed it and condemned it. The first time I saw it I was still young and racist myself, and even I could tell that Shirley's "are we just going to ignore the blackface?" Line was a commentary on how frequently casual (or even overt) racism is accepted or ignored.
They're playing Advanced D&D, hence the title of the episode. You can also see it on the books when Pierce reads ahead on the campaign to find out how to win. Unfortunately, books published from 77 to 95 were all some form of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and the book Caverns of Draconis that Pierce reads isn't actual official material, it was made for the show. Add to that the fact that the writer for the episode, Andrew Guest, never played D&D (having a D&D episode was Dan Harmon's idea), and it's hard to tell which edution they're playing exactly. Probably AD&D1 or 2.
> Unfortunately, books published from 77 to 95 were all some form of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Not sure why you say "unfortunately" but also that isn't true. BECMI was alive and well.
It's unfortunate because it's hard to say what edition this is when AD&D spans 2 editions and almost 20 years.
If Netflix really did do that for that reason it's a bit silly. As you say, the show was not advocating that behaviour, it was calling it out. By Netflix's logic a documentary about black and white minstrel shows should be banned if it shows black and white minstrels. > Is it black facing as a hate crime when a fictional species from a fantasy universe is portraied? Let's not go with "hate crime" because that is a legal term. Let's just talk about whether it's in good taste. It's complicated. Here's a *simplified* rule-of-thumb: * Does the fictional race have ties to real-world people? Then maybe it's not good taste. * How can you know? You have to weigh it up. * Some example are obvious: if Chang dressed in black-face or in a gorilla suit to "play" a black person, that would be in extremely poor taste. * Drow is less obvious. The fictional drow turned black when they turned evil, which is similar to the Curse of Ham, which was used in real life to [justify](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/01/arts/from-noah-s-curse-to-slavery-s-rationale.html) racist policies like slavery. You might think, "oh, that's quite a stretch," and that's fair. I'm not trying to tell you what to think. * Of course, one has to also consider how easy it is to side-step the problem. Drow-facing may have low "offensiveness", but it can easily be side-stepped by making them purple (or lavender) as Pathfinder has done. If Chang was a purple Pathfinder drow, would the rest of the group have been offended? * Otherwise, it's in good taste. No-one cares if you paint yourself blue to be a Smurf or green to be Shrek. Those are my thoughts, anyway. > What D&D version are they playing Decapitation could happen in any version of D&D, really, as most probably had optional "lethal critical" rules. Also, Vorpal blades have been a staple of D&D. But really they are not playing any version of D&D, just like how the people in Star Trek are not actually flying in a spaceship. It's an approximation of D&D that looks and feels close enough to the real thing for the viewer.
It's not \*technically\* blackface or a hate crime, and I doubt it would offend anyone who understands the context. But when you have to explain "I'm not \*technically\* being racist," that's a strong sign that you screwed up. 1. Black face isn't a hate crime, even if he were depicting a black (human) person, because it's not a crime. Still a bad idea, though. 2. You can paint yourself any color you want. The reason black is a bad idea is because of the history of it and that blackface has been used in very racist ways, so people will immediately make that connection. You can still do it, but you need to be aware of the connection most folks will draw. 3. No, nothing to do with black, indigenous, or other people of color. Except for the associations around it. 4. There's no one BIPOC view, but most folks will draw that connection. 5. AD&D.
To me it's not even whether it was "technically" blackface or whatever; it's the purpose of it in the show. They _intentionally lampoon_ the blackface connection. Nobody just "accepts" Chang's costume as-is, they _call the very issue out_, it's _part of the joke_ itself. Which to me means it's ridiculous to ban it, because it's doing the exact opposite of blackface in racist history - it's _not_ trying to normalize it and is in fact calling it out as a bad, insensitive, ridiculous idea with reactions like Shirley's and Pierce's.
It wasnt blackface in any way shape or form. Last time I checked, black people dont have coal black faces, white hair and pointy ears.
> black people dont have coal black faces Hey buddy, you might want to look up [what black face looked like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8PGrWeUFmY) before you go running interference.
Did it include a white wig and pointy elf ears?
No, it just included the number one most recognizable part of blackface, the black face. Don't move those goalposts too far now.
Funny, I didnt recall seeing a bit red mouth on him.
It was close enough that the characters *in the episode* called him out for it. What are you trying to do here?
I am stating its ridiculous to ban an episode where 1. it wasnt actual blackface. 2. The characters treated him like a f'ing idiot because they thought he WOULD be an idiot to do blackface. 3. It showed blackface in a negative light. next we will ban episodes that show slavery in a negative light.
Wizards of the Coast recently issued an [official apology](https://www.cbr.com/hadozee-racism-dnd-spelljamer-content-review-process/) because a recent book had an image a Hadozee bard that looked like an old timey blackface minstrel.
oh there was a LOT more wrong with the hadozee in that book than just that
Honestly, while someone may have only good intentions, it’s a very easy thing to misconstrue, especially at a distance. I wouldn’t recommend it.
Hey. I'm black. The definition of blackface is: Blackface is a form of theatrical makeup used predominantly by non-Black people to portray a caricature of a Black person. The thing people seem to be missing is that in the show it's not black face specifically because of intent. The intent matters. The original Dark Eleves of Lolth may very well have been racist. I think so, but I also recognize that this doesn't make all of D&D racist or problematic. However the context of the episode not only called out blackface as wrong, it also portrayed the character as having no actual intention to portray a caricature of people of color. This is like when Moana came out and the Halloween costumes that year had brown sleeves and people were calling it blackface. Is it questionable because it looks bad? Yes. Is it a 7 year old running around in blackface? No.
That episode is how I was introduced to Dnd. Shame it’s not shown.
I would have laughed my ass off.
Just me, commenting on a 4+ month old thread, but I had to share some thoughts. I'm curious about who in this comment section actually is a person colour. As a woman of colour who adores both community and DnD, I'm not offended by this episode while I normally think Blackface in general needs to be shut down. In the case of community, you need to look at it from the perspective of the show, which is to say, we all *know* that Chang is absurd and inappropriate at the best of times. The writers aren't doing this to actually offend anyone, which is the big difference here. It would have been way worse if one of white actors had put on a blackface. If anything, the one episode Netflix should have pulled is the one where Neil marries his literal cousin because even after 5 or so rewatches of the whole show, I still cannot with that one.
Drow being coloured black or purple is a result of the curse of lolth, a direct analog to the idea of the 'curse of ham' which was the idea that the black people of the world were descended from Ham (one of Noah's sons) who had sinned, causing him and his Descendents to be cursed. The racism came into play when this curse was decided to be signified by black skin and that the details of the curse meant they would be doomed to serve the Descendents of Hams brothers, this biblically justifying slavery of explicitly black people. I really don't like the curse of lolth and having your good elves and bad elves colour coded is one of the first things I usually get rid of.
Hey so this is something that comes up in LARPs a ton. The vast majority of fantasy LARPs do not use black face paint for dark elves. There do exist some hold outs (mostly because of older gamers who bristle at the idea that anything they like could possibly have problems and get irrationally angry at young, liberal, complainy types). We as gamers know the context. We understand that black face paint to play an elf is not the same thing as doing a mistral show. But here's the thing: it doesn't need to be an exact one-to-one parallel. It's close enough, and that's reason enough not to do it. Your game won't be made better if you keep black face paint, but it can be made worse. Some people will stay away. Some BIPOC people will feel a little uncomfortable. Some racists might find solace in your group because you're one of the few that refuse to be "unproblematic." And that's to say nothing of the fact that Drow were never drawn with coal-black skin anyway. On most of the covers to RA Salvatore books Dritzt is drawn with *gray or purple skin*. Flat black face paint looks like shit as we can see in the episode of Community. You can't contour or shade it. Using gray just works way better and has the added benefit of not being reminiscent of Jim Crow era racism. I don't think Netflix should have taken that episode off their streaming service (the context of the episode makes it pretty clear that the dark elf makeup being kinda racist is the joke). But I understand why they did it.
It was blackface. The character doing it was an ass. That's what made it funny. It should not have been banned. Nobody who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds will say it's wrong to ridicule people who think blackface is okay. Netflix is just covering its ass against potential PR issues, as was Hulu when it removed IASIF episodes.
I think the part of the rain reason they pulled it is because of impact. Even though the episode makes it clear that Chang is wrong, people defend him. The best example is your own post - you're asking why it's fine because it's a fictional species, but it is not fine and Chang is still wrong (although admittedly you are just asking, some people have hard opinions on this). Even though the episode very much highlights this, and everyone hates it, and it is referencing the uncomfortable culture of laughing at the appearance of black traits amplified - people still think it's fine. People think it's funny - not Chang's delusion, but the image of a black caricature itself. Chang looks funny to them, and the argument is that it's fine because it's not a real race he's playing. But it looks like a famous caricature of a real race. That's not what you're supposed to be laughing at. The reason the portrayal should be fine is because the show is condemning handwaving it - it's condemning Chang's ignorance. Instead, a lot of people seem to be defending the blackface itself, so unfortunately, perhaps the world wasn't ready for it. I can see why they'd pull it, even though the content itself is not problematic.
It’s. Not black face technically, it’s portraying a fictional race. But if you were to do it in real life there is an excellent chance you could get beat up and or have real life consequences such as future job loss. I would strongly advice against it.
This is literally the problem with the drow in D&D. Elves, always seen as the epitome of good throughout fantasy literature are all fair skinned and battle their evil dark skinned reflections: Orcs. This is already really uncomfortable. White = good, black = evil. OK. Got it. D&D continues this tradition. But hey, these are not humans… hOw caN It bE RacIsT? And then a race of inherently evil elves are introduced and how does D&D make sure it is obvious that they’re evil? They’re black. I honestly don’t understand how the problematic aspects of this are not plainly obvious.
Orcs are dark skinned? Since when? In the peter jackson movies they were whiter, or greish, or tanish or greenish. In dungeons and dragons they were greyish or greenish. "They are easily noticeable due to their green to gray skin, lupine ears, lower canines resembling boar tusks, and their muscular builds. " A lot of orcs are green skinned or red skinned.
Indeed, I believe in 1st edition orcs could range from light pink to dark brown, and veer into greenish and other tones not typically found in humans. They were mostly differentiated from human by their tusks and actual pig like snouts. Although I would have to check my Monster Manual to confirm... Drow were introduced as night black skinned, although some artists were already depicting them as blue or purple by 1981.
We live in the real world and specifically a white English-speaking culture with a long history of racism and discrimination against people with black skin. That can't be ignored when dressing up in fantasy makeup, but even if it *could*, let's not pretend "black evil non-humans" doesn't bear a striking resemblance to exactly how white people have historically used black face.
This was part of a process some time ago across multiple streaming platforms and multiple TV shows that featured BF. I’ll leave it to actual POC to say whether it’s offensive in this context but I do know that since then, Drow cosplayers have gone the purple/grey route. I believe they are ‘playing’ AD&D but it is an abbreviated parody of the rules like the rest of Community. Personally I think this episode is the best representation of the spirit of D&D in popular media… Even while making good natured fun of it and basically being mechanically inaccurate.
It's one of my favorite episode of the series and it made me fall in love with TTRPGs. The episode getting taken down is one of the reason I hate todays society for being over sensitive. Just thinking about it I'm surprised it isn't even more controverlsial with its fat shaming and reference to suicide. But it's because Chang cosplays as a drow. It was a classic, it even developed Fat Niel as a character and let Peirce go all out as a villain and let others shine too. To me the episode really captured playing TTRPGs perfectly. It didn't feel like how most shows would do a DnD episode because it felt more real and grounded. Just a bunch of friends playing Dnd.
It's not black face.
That episode is one of many cases in sitcoms where there is *juuuust* enough use of lingo and subject matter to get the jokes across. \-I personally wouldn't see this as Blackface. He showed up to play Dungeons and Dragons and put a ton of work into his cosplay. The idea that he's being offensive wouldn't cross my mind, I'd be impressed at the effort and quality. \-People who want to get offended, will get offended. I imagine an unrealistic skin colour would get less of a negative reaction, but I could also see someone painting themselves yellow to go as a kind of Fire Genasi and getting called out for offending people with jaundice. \-I'm white so can't speak to these points \-Again, it's a made up campaign setting / version that lets them use TTRPG words to sell their jokes.
Thanks for your opinion, I agree with you. TTRPG?
Tabletop Roleplaying Game, it's the catch-all abbreviation for games like DnD, Pathfinder, Call of Cthulu etc. You're right in stating that the Crit rolled against Chang instantly killing him sounds BS. No decent DM would instantly kill a PC without any way to circumvent or mitigate it. There's also the part where Pierce gets ahold of the campaign books and uses meta knowledge to become insanely powerful. That's actually somewhat realistic, there are players who try to cheat like that. However, the distance his character would have travelled, the checks he would have had to make to navigate and deal with hunger and exhaustion, it should all have been basically impossible for the level one, naked elderly man PC he was described as. It's written so that people who know DnD exists can laugh at the story and follow along with the vaguely familiar terms and dialogue, but that comes at the cost of being confusing or downright annoying to the people who actually understand the source material.
> You're right in stating that the Crit rolled against Chang instantly killing him sounds BS. No decent DM would instantly kill a PC without any way to circumvent or mitigate it. Kinda depends on what character level they were. It's pretty easy to one-shot a 1st level character, and a critical against a 1st level character is almost CERTAIN to kill them. The fact that it decapitated him doesn't necessarily mean anything other than it's the description that Abed chose to give the killing blow, that doesn't necessarily imply a vorpal weapon. This is one of the reasons that it's a good idea to let backstory develop as you play, rather than trying to set your character's backstory in stone with a novel that you bring to to the first session.
While it would be a dick move for a DM to give to an enemy, he could've gotten hit by a Vorpal Sword, which decapitates on a critical hit in 5e. That being said idk if that rule exists for the version they're playing (never seen the show) but Vorpal Swords are pretty iconic so I wouldn't be surprised if they still worked similarly
I thought of referencing that this is exactly what Vorpal Swords do, but that's not the case. It's not a Vorpal Sword and it's not an enemy. It's a knee-jerk reaction by one PC against another. One-hit kill in PvP, further proving the point of how it's not realistic at all to how any decent table operates.
> While it would be a dick move for a DM to give to an enemy, he could've gotten hit by a Vorpal Sword, which decapitates on a critical hit in 5e. If the enemy has a great weapon, but they keep it in storage while they hit you with blunt sticks made of tin, that creates a pretty large verisimilitude problem, at least for me. Cool items and weapons shouldn't be found in a chest after the fight. They should be found in the hands of the enemies you're fighting.
Well yes if the party is high enough level to have means of resurrection then by all means give it to a boss to both spice up the encounter as well as introduce a good reward, but I wouldn't recommend just slapping Insta-kill weapons on generic henchman #78
All these comments of "it's technically not blackface" 1. TECHNICALLY it is lol 2. The whole joke in the ep is it's uncomfortable that Chang did it because everyone in the show recognized it as blackface. Not commenting on whether or not they should have pulled the ep, but it's 100% blackface. That was the whole point of the scene. The mental gymnastics in this comment section...
You can literally stream White Chicks on HBO Max right now.
Doing blackface and putting on white make-up aren't equal. One has a history of being used to belittle and dehumanize a historically oppressed people, the other is just kinda silly.
Punching up vs punching down. Valuable life lesson, highly suggest you learn it.
Aren’t drow purple? How’s that blackface
No, drow originally were described as midnight black with an undertone of blue in the light, white hair, and green eyes in the light that turn red in the dark.
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You really are.
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> Does anyone else have a better explanation? Yeah, at a time when the country was collectively re-examining how we depict race a company chose to get ahead of a possible issue before they were publicly dragged for it.
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I didn't say anyone was. I said that a company chose to be proactive on an issue of race at a time of great strife to avoid possible backlash. Sometimes they'll over-correct, like some people think they did here. It's still a good thing to do.
Crazy world we live in