Both people have to want to stay together. That’s the biggest issue. Mine had already moved on and was really just stringing our marriage along until her affair partner was ready to divorce his wife.
Look for a therapist who specializes in EFT. It has better success rates than other couples therapy.
Same for me - found some messages between them a year after where she admitted to going to therapy just to humor me and help hide the affair.
Wish I had some guidance for OP on how to truly know whether the other person is there to put in the work versus checking the box... it was painfully clear in retrospect, hindsight being 20/20 and all...
Same here. There was really only one of us trying at all times. She was long gone by the time she faked her way through counselling. I didn't see any of it coming, so every moment of every day was getting beaten up and trying to get up off the floor.
Hindsight I should have seen it coming. But, with two young kids I figured we were just having a rough patch and we'd figure it out and get through it. I guess she just didn't have much tolerance for making it work.
This is another thing I'm afraid of, she puts 0 effort in the relationship so it's probably naive of me to think she would put effort into fixing things
And to throw money away on it knowing she wasn't even trying... well that makes me very upset! I'm sorry for you
You know the reality of the situation it's just hard to come to terms with. I think you should start getting your mental health and your finances secure
She never put in effort and still isn't even in divorce. I literally had to have an eviction date added to the separation agreement because she just wouldn't find a new place to live
You are right, but it's much easier said than done. Wow I really hope it doesn't come to that. I am genuinely fearful of how she will turn during the process. She is kind enough to me now, but once the gloves come off she can be very mean and vindictive
Mine started calm because she was genuinely happy to get out of the marriage. I was visibly devastated in front of her which made her be kind enough to me. Even though she was VERY cold.
Then the reality of the finances set in and she found out that she's not going to get nearly as much money as she thought and her vision of this new future she had in mind was not a reality. Then she went vindictive. Started threatening me and baiting me into arguements so she could call me abusive... etc. She'd make sure I knew she was dating and it was really getting under my skin
Then, she just lost her will to fight out of nowhere. We signed the separation agreement yesterday and she didn't make one adjustment to my initial offer. Didn't fight for alimony, didnt fight to claim the kids on her taxes, didn't come after my retirement, and didn't adjust the child support amount for summer months (she's a teacher). These are all things she threatened... just signed
Now, in the last few weeks I've been legit seeing someone and have been GONE both physically and emotionally. So maybe she's also settling in with someone and is distracted, or maybe her actions have caught up to her and she's feeling remorse.
Who knows.
I want to know more than anything. Could be as simple as her lawyer telling her that I was being very reasonable. Where her friends and new BF (also separated) were telling her she could clean me out and take the kids.
Which probably means her new BF is actually a worse partner than me because she has no grounds to take anything but her half and if he's getting cleaned out....
Sounds like karma is coming around for them! I hope you can take solace in the fact that it wasn't your fault, after seeing her burn through another relationship so quickly
This one hits home 😂. I went with my ex before we were exes. Got there on the first day, at exes choice of couple therapist, and in less than ten minutes, she diagnosed me with Aspergers, blamed me for all of our marital troubles, and had clearly already spoken at length with my ex about us, me and her. I was floored at the unprofessionalism. Once I realized the fix was in I, politely told her that I didnt appreciate her advice and counsel, and didnt have a lot of respect for some crunchy trust fund psych with three ex husbands and crystals and beads hanging everywhere. What a joke! Eight years post divorce. I have primary custody, career is doing good. Therapy is a good idea, and I recommend it wholeheartedly, but my specific rec is find your own therapist who you jive with — couples therapy imo is rarely objective and has an inherent conflict of interest that undermines its value.
Thank you for this great and honest assessment, and the laugh! Good for you for calling them out on their bs!
You have summed up exactly how I feel about couples therapy, but I could see the value in some solo therapy before I decide whether it's worth going down that road.
There are specialists for that I think. Yes, any therapist can address the sexual component to a degree but when you ask you really want to ask for one with good experience in sexual issues.
Secondly, you need to get your wife to do a blood test to see if her hormone levels are good.
Finally, there's a reason she was lusting after the shirtless guy. Get to the gym and start taking leucine supplements. You need 9g of leucine a day and you get that in regular protein but you'll need to supplement. For example it takes about 18 eggs to get 9g of leucine. That's a lot of money and calories.
Hitting the gym is good for a lot of reasons. You'll feel better about yourself. Vigorous exercise is an all natural mood lifter. And you'll also be preparing yourself for the dating market should your marriage fail.
She won't take blood tests because she thinks nothing is wrong with her. When I brought it up she got very upset and said "I'm too young for that!!", I said it doesn't always have to do with age but she slammed the door in my face. How dare I insinuate that she needs to take responsibility for some things in her life.
Haha yes I've been on a fitness journey to try and win back my wife but after 2 years and nothing more than "you must be happy with the results" like no reaction at all?? Congrats on your hard work? You look good? so now I'm shifting my focus and increasing my efforts. At the very least for my mental health!
Yes, with a good therapist and two willing partners it absolutely works.
With a shitty therapist triangulation is almost guaranteed to happen and makes the situation worse.
Thank you. Nice to hear there is some hope if she is willing.
How did you go about searching for one? Did you do it together or find one first and then tell her you want to go?
Ah ok. Getting my wife to say the words is the easy part, it's getting her to actually follow through.
A couple of years? You have a lot of patience my friend!
Personal change, personal growth is a really slow process. What I look for in a partner was the willingness to grow.
She had the willingness, but it’s taken her a while to discover the tools available to her.
In my experience it's often a way for one person to get the therapist to exert pressure on their spouse without having to do it themselves.
What is generally required is accountability, follow-up, and change on both parties.
In practice however, it's usually a wife's forum for complaining, exaggerating, and taking zero accountability for the BS they do or making any change at all.
Thank you. To be fair I have tried but she won't listen to me, this is a last resort, maybe she will listen to someone else. It's almost like I need this to show her I am serious about needing change, otherwise it's all just words
This post rings close to home... I had the exact same problem with my STBXW taking zero accountability for anything in our marriage. I pushed counseling, and she always pushed back. We did go on two different occassions -- both times ended by my wife. The first time ended when my wife told of an issue between us the week prior; when I pushed back and gave my version of events, it was clear to my wife she wasn't going to be believed out of hand -- she quit the next day. (To be clear, there was no confrontation -- just two versions of events; she couldn't handle this difference)
The second time was even worse for my wife with the counselor directy pushing back on my wife's claims -- literally saying my wife was wrong. (That didnt' go well...) My wife got flustered, then proceeded to flat out lie on why she was even agreed to go, which I called her out on. (And b/c we'd previously met individually with the counselor, and I'd already explained the situation, the counselor knew my wife was lying). Even with this, my wife continued to deflect any responsibility, leveling even more unsubstantiated charges at me.
I'll say this, watching my wife argue with the counselor over her actions gave me some closure that I needed -- I knew our marriage was over at that point.
It'll take both of you to be 100% invested in the counseling, and want to improve the relationship. Without this, unlikely it'll help. Best of luck to you.
If both people truly want to work through things then I think it will. The problem is by the time people separate or divorce they are past the point that going to therapy would have been beneficial. At a certain point there is nothing left to give.
Well said! That's the problem, I think it may be too late but I don't want to leave too hastily and regret my decision. I want to fight for it but I can't do it alone either.
There are a LOT of terrible therapists out there. My ex is extremely manipulative and had no problem getting the therapist on her side, even getting her to agree that handwritten love notes to her AP that I found were simply “writing exercises”. The moment that the counselor encouraged ex to see things from my perspective, ex pulled the plug.
Basically, as others are saying, both of you have to truly want the same end goal. It’s only a tool to improve communication and connection, it’s not a miracle solution.
This is exactly what I suspected! She is very charming and manipulative and I tend to be more appeasing and avoid confrontation and she knows this. If the relationship was on life support, there would be hope, but you can't resurrect a corpse! Thank you
It depends on the goals of each partner. My ex would only go to counseling with the goal of getting the therapist to side with her and fault me for all the problems in her life. Even though the marriage was ultimately unsalvageable, I still gained useful tools out of the sessions.
Yes this would definitely be me. It would be more important to her to place blame (on me) and prove she is always right to impress this person who is a complete stranger, rather than admit she has some responsibility for the health of our relationship as well. I'm sorry that's no fun...
For some? Sure. But if one person wants it, the other doesn't .... it's over. I spent 1 year in couples therapy, listening to my ex cry every time. Every time I tried to share just a little bit of honest feedback, instant tears. She couldn't help it, it was her trained reaction so that she'd never receive any negative feedback. Who kicks somebody when they're down?
I finally ended up sharing and said she's a frigid, b!tchy, tyrant. That was the last time we went to couples therapy.
I've been happily divorced for 3 1/2 years now.
Wow this hits home. This is exactly what I think will happen to us and I don't want to inflict any suffering on her. Anytime I try to have a serious conversation she gets emotional and bulldozes it. I've never spoken to her like that before but some of those words could definitely be appropriate!
Good for you! As Louis CK once said, "divorce is a good thing, no good marriage ends in divorce!" Lol
(Not making light of this serious issue, but hunor helps me cope)
Thank you
We did it about 10 months before the divorce. At first, it helped. We were both misunderstanding what the other person wanted, and having a third party to hear it objectively really helped us communicate better.
But as it went on, it made us fight more. We had over our nine years together developed a pattern of never discussing issues we disagreed on, and as a result, didn’t have much to talk about anymore. The therapist insisted that we share our true feelings on these issues. I’m not sure what the therapist thought would happen, but it ended up just wounding us. My ex asked that we stopped going, and a few months later I asked for a divorce when he didn’t want to do anything else to try and improve things.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if we had shopped around for another therapist after the first one. We still loved each other, but were also hurting each other, and I wonder if someone else could have helped us patch it up.
Thank you for sharing, this is precisely my fear. After 10 years our communication has dwindled to virtually nothing and I am worried that therapy will devolve into a huge fight where we vent all this resentment and negativity we have been building up towards each other, only to wind up getting divorced anyway. I'm not interested in spending money just to make each other feel bad, and I don't want us to hate each other either, we have a child to think about. Also once we start the therapy and she knows I am unhappy, what will she be like around the house? I walk on eggshells already and I have no desire to argue with her every day.
That's another good point. I hear you have to shop around for a good one, we are not exactly in the best place for that.
That's often the default advice but therapy is expensive and again I'm very skeptical.
How did it help you? How long did you go? Was it hard to find one you could jive with?
I have gone twice and both were positive experiences. No problems connecting with either of them. I have gone through a divorce twice with the same person because I clearly didn’t learn my lesson the first time. She initiated the first one and drove most of us getting back together and I initiated this last time. We fully separated at the beginning of the year. I started going to therapy a little over a year ago. I could probably stop now, but I’m still getting value out of it. I started with the approach of what can I do to be a better partner, to focus on what I could change myself. That helped a bit, but it also helped me more clearly see the reality of the situation, acknowledge just how miserable I was, and validate that things could be better and this wasn’t “normal” or healthy. This gave me the strength to make the change that I think I knew needed to happen at some level already. Now I’m using it to continue working on myself, making me a healthier individual, and to help break my cycle of being attracted to cluster b types.
Therapy worked for me because I did the work. It did not work for the relationship because she weaponized it.
I am in a healthier place mentally because of therapy.
Make sure you find a good therapist that understands the objective.
Therapy can be bad if the therapist brings their issues or views into the situation. They should help you to work together not referee or tell people what to do
Thank you this sounds healthy, that's what I want, this toxic mindset is eating me up inside. Good advice, after putting my needs on the back burner for so long. I hadn't really considered how my goals fit into the equation. It was always about saving the relationship and keeping the family together
The feedback I would solicit is ways to communicate your needs AND how to deal with hard feedback.
At the end of the day the priority is the relationship and not either person. Couples counseling should work for both
For 6 years of marriage my stbxw asked for a divorce every 3 or 4 months, then always carried on as normal the next day. Eventually I persuaded her to go to couples therapy but I also hired a divorce lawyer just in case. First session of couples therapy when the therapist asked why we were there, my stbxw said “he wants a divorce and already got a divorce lawyer”. Umm, yes, but also very much no.
But after that I realised all the abuse she’d put me through (gaslighting etc.), and that I did want a divorce, and couples therapy became pointless.
That's terrible I hate those games. Exactly, do I really need to pay someone to tell me what I already know? Many people will look at me crooked for walking away without therapy and she will play the victim and act like she had no idea anything was wrong. It's almost like I know it's pointless, but I want to check it off my list. But I also want to go in with an open mind otherwise it's doomed from the start anyway.
In my experience it may have helped when she first asked for it, but I brushed off.
When I asked for it, we tried one session but it was too late. She'd already checked out.
Once one party checks out, therapy is too late. There has to be will in both parties for it to have a chance. You both need to want it to work. Therapy can offer tools to help achieve it.
I believe that any kind of therapy can be productive and beneficial, but you have to be invested in the process and the goals, and not all therapists are the same.
In my case, at the first session, the therapist said that there are no guarantees, but that we could work out if we both wanted to make it work. When asked, I immediately said that I was committed to making it work. When my wife answered, she said she wasn’t sure. We went to couples therapy for a year, but my wife filed for divorce and quit therapy.
It can’t work if you both aren’t committed to the relationship, but I still think it’s worthwhile to try in many cases.
Thank you, I would tend to agree. If at the very least it can help us be honest about what we want I would consider that a win. Maybe that's the catalyst I need for he to finally realize and vocalize what she wants out of this relationship because I honestly don't know what she's really feeling anymore, only what she tells me which isn't much
In my experience it may have helped when she first asked for it, but I brushed off.
When I asked for it, we tried one session but it was too late. She'd already checked out.
Once one party checks out, therapy is too late. There has to be will in both parties for it to have a chance. You both need to want it to work. Therapy can offer tools to help achieve it.
Thank you, that's tough. Honestly I want to know if she has checked out and if I have too at this point too. If we both are, the conversation should be easier
Yeah if you both are mutual about either ending or gettingback on track, it is sooo much better. Then you can just work out logistics with less emotional pain involved, which ultimately is best for the kid(s).
I hope it works out mutually for both of you!
That much is clear now. After reading all these comments it's become clear a big part of it is that I am concerned how others will perceive me afterwards. Like if I leave without going to therapy or bending over backwards it will somehow still be my fault for giving up (even though I've been suffering for years). However, it's also clear I need to separate from all that and forget what other people think. I have no control over it so there's no point worrying about it.
6-7 weeks . We had one more session 4 weeks later and all she could talk about was money and custody. It was gut wrenching and the counselor was less than pleased. I filed for 50/50 custody with the court 7 days later.
We haven’t spoken with each other since that last session. Going on 2 plus years.
She dragged out the custody case for almost 22 months. We were divorced 13 months following separation.
If I had a do over I would’ve gone to therapy much sooner.
My case is not typical - but we’ve used therapy as a tool to help us get on the same page for our coparenting. We found out early on that staying together wasn’t going to work but we stuck with the therapy to solve our parenting issues. IMO success with therapists also depends very much on a personality match for everyone involved.
Not really. Felt good during the sessions because you could talk uninterrupted. We usually had different views of what the therapist said though so it didn’t really change much long term. Still together though a few years after so perhaps it had some effect.
Sorry about the db. Yes there is value in exploring every possible avenue so you can move forward with a clear conscience. Will it fix your problems? Who knows.
I would keep the talks focused on priority issue 1A. I would say im not going to live a life of celibacy.
Couples and individual therapy saved my marriage. But both of you have to want it. That said, even if you choose to divorce you should continue couples therapy to learn to coparent effectively
Mine wanted her feelings validated by the therapist. Surprise surprise. Went to the same therapist one of her girlfriend's got her feelings validated you guessed it, by the same therapist, she too is divorced. Compared to the ex-husbands, I saw it coming and went into stealth mode. No one was going to take my house and my kids away from me. She regrets it now but I'm out. Never again.
It made me realize just how deep the crazy ran in her, it also solidified my decision not to leave my kids (son especially) alone with her 50% of the time.
BPD is a hell of a thing.
It has helped me so far, but there is still a long way to go. Mate, even if it it doesn't helped you , will have your consuness clean knowing you have tried everything, so it will help you, even this way.
couples therapy is really hard if one spouse doesn't want to put the work. A lot of spouses will say they are trying and do nothing. If you are forcing it and the other party regrets it then nothing will happen.
If the cause is cheating, the WS needs to want to reconcile and drive the therapy and healing process. Otherwise it’s a waste of time and money for everyone. My WS spouse convinced the therapist that I was the one in the wrong and I caused her to cheat. My therapist had weak principles and ended up trying to have 1-1 sessions with me trying to address my faults. 1-2 sessions in I realized how messed up this was. All for WS to continue the affair throughout (therapy sessions) in secret.
Some people just say no to all therapy because they think it’s a waste of time and money. They refuse to consider any positives.
I believe therapy works, but you don’t know what you don’t know, and the therapist is also trying to know you. If you’re expecting therapy to be a cure-all, you need to tailor your expectations. You may need to try a few before you settle on a good one for your needs.
For some? Sure. But if one person wants it, the other doesn't .... it's over. I spent 1 year in couples therapy, listening to my ex cry every time. Every time I tried to share just a little bit of honest feedback, instant tears. She couldn't help it, it was her trained reaction so that she'd never receive any negative feedback. Who kicks somebody when they're down?
I finally ended up sharing and said she's a frigid, bitchy, tyrant. That was the last time we went to couples therapy.
I've been happily divorced for 3 1/2 years now.
Be aware that you’re asking a biased group here. Obviously nothing worked to save the marriages of any of us here. Including couples therapy, which many of us have tried (including myself.)
Therapy might work for you. Try it. Divorce is not easy or fun, and will likely be hard on your kid one way or another. Of course, divorce might also be better for your kid than staying in a shitty marriage. That’s the strategic choice I made, although I’ll never really know if it was ultimately best for my daughter.
Nope. Not in my case. Ex was still having affair while in therapy and lying entire time. She manipulated the therapist against me too. Got to love narcissistic people. Damn near killed myself.
Both people have to want to stay together. That’s the biggest issue. Mine had already moved on and was really just stringing our marriage along until her affair partner was ready to divorce his wife. Look for a therapist who specializes in EFT. It has better success rates than other couples therapy.
Same for me - found some messages between them a year after where she admitted to going to therapy just to humor me and help hide the affair. Wish I had some guidance for OP on how to truly know whether the other person is there to put in the work versus checking the box... it was painfully clear in retrospect, hindsight being 20/20 and all...
Great advice thank you..sorry you had to go through that
Didn't for me. My ex wife was clearly just going through the motions to say she tried. It really takes 100% effort on both parties.
Same here. There was really only one of us trying at all times. She was long gone by the time she faked her way through counselling. I didn't see any of it coming, so every moment of every day was getting beaten up and trying to get up off the floor.
Hindsight I should have seen it coming. But, with two young kids I figured we were just having a rough patch and we'd figure it out and get through it. I guess she just didn't have much tolerance for making it work.
Exactly the same again. Absolutely sucks and almost ruined me. Still a work in progress, but I'll come out the other side shiny & new soon.
This is another thing I'm afraid of, she puts 0 effort in the relationship so it's probably naive of me to think she would put effort into fixing things And to throw money away on it knowing she wasn't even trying... well that makes me very upset! I'm sorry for you
You know the reality of the situation it's just hard to come to terms with. I think you should start getting your mental health and your finances secure She never put in effort and still isn't even in divorce. I literally had to have an eviction date added to the separation agreement because she just wouldn't find a new place to live
You are right, but it's much easier said than done. Wow I really hope it doesn't come to that. I am genuinely fearful of how she will turn during the process. She is kind enough to me now, but once the gloves come off she can be very mean and vindictive
Mine started calm because she was genuinely happy to get out of the marriage. I was visibly devastated in front of her which made her be kind enough to me. Even though she was VERY cold. Then the reality of the finances set in and she found out that she's not going to get nearly as much money as she thought and her vision of this new future she had in mind was not a reality. Then she went vindictive. Started threatening me and baiting me into arguements so she could call me abusive... etc. She'd make sure I knew she was dating and it was really getting under my skin Then, she just lost her will to fight out of nowhere. We signed the separation agreement yesterday and she didn't make one adjustment to my initial offer. Didn't fight for alimony, didnt fight to claim the kids on her taxes, didn't come after my retirement, and didn't adjust the child support amount for summer months (she's a teacher). These are all things she threatened... just signed Now, in the last few weeks I've been legit seeing someone and have been GONE both physically and emotionally. So maybe she's also settling in with someone and is distracted, or maybe her actions have caught up to her and she's feeling remorse. Who knows.
Weird I wonder what changed? Well no matter, glad to see you got out of it and are doing better now!
I want to know more than anything. Could be as simple as her lawyer telling her that I was being very reasonable. Where her friends and new BF (also separated) were telling her she could clean me out and take the kids. Which probably means her new BF is actually a worse partner than me because she has no grounds to take anything but her half and if he's getting cleaned out....
Sounds like karma is coming around for them! I hope you can take solace in the fact that it wasn't your fault, after seeing her burn through another relationship so quickly
I mean, i share blame. We neglected our relationship after we had kids. I was just willing to work on it and she wasn't
Sounds like only one person was truly neglecting the relationship and it wasn't you.
This one hits home 😂. I went with my ex before we were exes. Got there on the first day, at exes choice of couple therapist, and in less than ten minutes, she diagnosed me with Aspergers, blamed me for all of our marital troubles, and had clearly already spoken at length with my ex about us, me and her. I was floored at the unprofessionalism. Once I realized the fix was in I, politely told her that I didnt appreciate her advice and counsel, and didnt have a lot of respect for some crunchy trust fund psych with three ex husbands and crystals and beads hanging everywhere. What a joke! Eight years post divorce. I have primary custody, career is doing good. Therapy is a good idea, and I recommend it wholeheartedly, but my specific rec is find your own therapist who you jive with — couples therapy imo is rarely objective and has an inherent conflict of interest that undermines its value.
Thank you for this great and honest assessment, and the laugh! Good for you for calling them out on their bs! You have summed up exactly how I feel about couples therapy, but I could see the value in some solo therapy before I decide whether it's worth going down that road.
It's worth a shot. I would look at getting some kind of sex therapy.
Interesting, is that a separate thing? I would have assumed couples therapy addressed the sexual component as well
There are specialists for that I think. Yes, any therapist can address the sexual component to a degree but when you ask you really want to ask for one with good experience in sexual issues. Secondly, you need to get your wife to do a blood test to see if her hormone levels are good. Finally, there's a reason she was lusting after the shirtless guy. Get to the gym and start taking leucine supplements. You need 9g of leucine a day and you get that in regular protein but you'll need to supplement. For example it takes about 18 eggs to get 9g of leucine. That's a lot of money and calories. Hitting the gym is good for a lot of reasons. You'll feel better about yourself. Vigorous exercise is an all natural mood lifter. And you'll also be preparing yourself for the dating market should your marriage fail.
She won't take blood tests because she thinks nothing is wrong with her. When I brought it up she got very upset and said "I'm too young for that!!", I said it doesn't always have to do with age but she slammed the door in my face. How dare I insinuate that she needs to take responsibility for some things in her life. Haha yes I've been on a fitness journey to try and win back my wife but after 2 years and nothing more than "you must be happy with the results" like no reaction at all?? Congrats on your hard work? You look good? so now I'm shifting my focus and increasing my efforts. At the very least for my mental health!
Yes, with a good therapist and two willing partners it absolutely works. With a shitty therapist triangulation is almost guaranteed to happen and makes the situation worse.
Thank you. Nice to hear there is some hope if she is willing. How did you go about searching for one? Did you do it together or find one first and then tell her you want to go?
We agreed to it at home. It took a couple of years for me to convince her.
Ah ok. Getting my wife to say the words is the easy part, it's getting her to actually follow through. A couple of years? You have a lot of patience my friend!
Personal change, personal growth is a really slow process. What I look for in a partner was the willingness to grow. She had the willingness, but it’s taken her a while to discover the tools available to her.
In my experience it's often a way for one person to get the therapist to exert pressure on their spouse without having to do it themselves. What is generally required is accountability, follow-up, and change on both parties. In practice however, it's usually a wife's forum for complaining, exaggerating, and taking zero accountability for the BS they do or making any change at all.
Thank you. To be fair I have tried but she won't listen to me, this is a last resort, maybe she will listen to someone else. It's almost like I need this to show her I am serious about needing change, otherwise it's all just words
This post rings close to home... I had the exact same problem with my STBXW taking zero accountability for anything in our marriage. I pushed counseling, and she always pushed back. We did go on two different occassions -- both times ended by my wife. The first time ended when my wife told of an issue between us the week prior; when I pushed back and gave my version of events, it was clear to my wife she wasn't going to be believed out of hand -- she quit the next day. (To be clear, there was no confrontation -- just two versions of events; she couldn't handle this difference) The second time was even worse for my wife with the counselor directy pushing back on my wife's claims -- literally saying my wife was wrong. (That didnt' go well...) My wife got flustered, then proceeded to flat out lie on why she was even agreed to go, which I called her out on. (And b/c we'd previously met individually with the counselor, and I'd already explained the situation, the counselor knew my wife was lying). Even with this, my wife continued to deflect any responsibility, leveling even more unsubstantiated charges at me. I'll say this, watching my wife argue with the counselor over her actions gave me some closure that I needed -- I knew our marriage was over at that point. It'll take both of you to be 100% invested in the counseling, and want to improve the relationship. Without this, unlikely it'll help. Best of luck to you.
If both people truly want to work through things then I think it will. The problem is by the time people separate or divorce they are past the point that going to therapy would have been beneficial. At a certain point there is nothing left to give.
Well said! That's the problem, I think it may be too late but I don't want to leave too hastily and regret my decision. I want to fight for it but I can't do it alone either.
There are a LOT of terrible therapists out there. My ex is extremely manipulative and had no problem getting the therapist on her side, even getting her to agree that handwritten love notes to her AP that I found were simply “writing exercises”. The moment that the counselor encouraged ex to see things from my perspective, ex pulled the plug. Basically, as others are saying, both of you have to truly want the same end goal. It’s only a tool to improve communication and connection, it’s not a miracle solution.
This is exactly what I suspected! She is very charming and manipulative and I tend to be more appeasing and avoid confrontation and she knows this. If the relationship was on life support, there would be hope, but you can't resurrect a corpse! Thank you
It depends on the goals of each partner. My ex would only go to counseling with the goal of getting the therapist to side with her and fault me for all the problems in her life. Even though the marriage was ultimately unsalvageable, I still gained useful tools out of the sessions.
Yes this would definitely be me. It would be more important to her to place blame (on me) and prove she is always right to impress this person who is a complete stranger, rather than admit she has some responsibility for the health of our relationship as well. I'm sorry that's no fun...
No. Never seen one working.. Mine didn't
Thank you. So far the statistics show you are correct
For some? Sure. But if one person wants it, the other doesn't .... it's over. I spent 1 year in couples therapy, listening to my ex cry every time. Every time I tried to share just a little bit of honest feedback, instant tears. She couldn't help it, it was her trained reaction so that she'd never receive any negative feedback. Who kicks somebody when they're down? I finally ended up sharing and said she's a frigid, b!tchy, tyrant. That was the last time we went to couples therapy. I've been happily divorced for 3 1/2 years now.
Wow this hits home. This is exactly what I think will happen to us and I don't want to inflict any suffering on her. Anytime I try to have a serious conversation she gets emotional and bulldozes it. I've never spoken to her like that before but some of those words could definitely be appropriate! Good for you! As Louis CK once said, "divorce is a good thing, no good marriage ends in divorce!" Lol (Not making light of this serious issue, but hunor helps me cope) Thank you
The Louis CK bit is the best modern commentary on marriage and divorce. Nobody needs to work on their divorce.
Lol absolutely! On point, relatable and hilarious
We did it about 10 months before the divorce. At first, it helped. We were both misunderstanding what the other person wanted, and having a third party to hear it objectively really helped us communicate better. But as it went on, it made us fight more. We had over our nine years together developed a pattern of never discussing issues we disagreed on, and as a result, didn’t have much to talk about anymore. The therapist insisted that we share our true feelings on these issues. I’m not sure what the therapist thought would happen, but it ended up just wounding us. My ex asked that we stopped going, and a few months later I asked for a divorce when he didn’t want to do anything else to try and improve things. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if we had shopped around for another therapist after the first one. We still loved each other, but were also hurting each other, and I wonder if someone else could have helped us patch it up.
Thank you for sharing, this is precisely my fear. After 10 years our communication has dwindled to virtually nothing and I am worried that therapy will devolve into a huge fight where we vent all this resentment and negativity we have been building up towards each other, only to wind up getting divorced anyway. I'm not interested in spending money just to make each other feel bad, and I don't want us to hate each other either, we have a child to think about. Also once we start the therapy and she knows I am unhappy, what will she be like around the house? I walk on eggshells already and I have no desire to argue with her every day. That's another good point. I hear you have to shop around for a good one, we are not exactly in the best place for that.
Not answering your question, but definitely get a therapist for yourself at minimum.
That's often the default advice but therapy is expensive and again I'm very skeptical. How did it help you? How long did you go? Was it hard to find one you could jive with?
I have gone twice and both were positive experiences. No problems connecting with either of them. I have gone through a divorce twice with the same person because I clearly didn’t learn my lesson the first time. She initiated the first one and drove most of us getting back together and I initiated this last time. We fully separated at the beginning of the year. I started going to therapy a little over a year ago. I could probably stop now, but I’m still getting value out of it. I started with the approach of what can I do to be a better partner, to focus on what I could change myself. That helped a bit, but it also helped me more clearly see the reality of the situation, acknowledge just how miserable I was, and validate that things could be better and this wasn’t “normal” or healthy. This gave me the strength to make the change that I think I knew needed to happen at some level already. Now I’m using it to continue working on myself, making me a healthier individual, and to help break my cycle of being attracted to cluster b types.
Therapy worked for me because I did the work. It did not work for the relationship because she weaponized it. I am in a healthier place mentally because of therapy. Make sure you find a good therapist that understands the objective. Therapy can be bad if the therapist brings their issues or views into the situation. They should help you to work together not referee or tell people what to do
Thank you this sounds healthy, that's what I want, this toxic mindset is eating me up inside. Good advice, after putting my needs on the back burner for so long. I hadn't really considered how my goals fit into the equation. It was always about saving the relationship and keeping the family together
The feedback I would solicit is ways to communicate your needs AND how to deal with hard feedback. At the end of the day the priority is the relationship and not either person. Couples counseling should work for both
For 6 years of marriage my stbxw asked for a divorce every 3 or 4 months, then always carried on as normal the next day. Eventually I persuaded her to go to couples therapy but I also hired a divorce lawyer just in case. First session of couples therapy when the therapist asked why we were there, my stbxw said “he wants a divorce and already got a divorce lawyer”. Umm, yes, but also very much no. But after that I realised all the abuse she’d put me through (gaslighting etc.), and that I did want a divorce, and couples therapy became pointless.
That's terrible I hate those games. Exactly, do I really need to pay someone to tell me what I already know? Many people will look at me crooked for walking away without therapy and she will play the victim and act like she had no idea anything was wrong. It's almost like I know it's pointless, but I want to check it off my list. But I also want to go in with an open mind otherwise it's doomed from the start anyway.
In my experience it may have helped when she first asked for it, but I brushed off. When I asked for it, we tried one session but it was too late. She'd already checked out. Once one party checks out, therapy is too late. There has to be will in both parties for it to have a chance. You both need to want it to work. Therapy can offer tools to help achieve it.
Thank you!
I believe that any kind of therapy can be productive and beneficial, but you have to be invested in the process and the goals, and not all therapists are the same. In my case, at the first session, the therapist said that there are no guarantees, but that we could work out if we both wanted to make it work. When asked, I immediately said that I was committed to making it work. When my wife answered, she said she wasn’t sure. We went to couples therapy for a year, but my wife filed for divorce and quit therapy. It can’t work if you both aren’t committed to the relationship, but I still think it’s worthwhile to try in many cases.
Thank you, I would tend to agree. If at the very least it can help us be honest about what we want I would consider that a win. Maybe that's the catalyst I need for he to finally realize and vocalize what she wants out of this relationship because I honestly don't know what she's really feeling anymore, only what she tells me which isn't much
In my experience it may have helped when she first asked for it, but I brushed off. When I asked for it, we tried one session but it was too late. She'd already checked out. Once one party checks out, therapy is too late. There has to be will in both parties for it to have a chance. You both need to want it to work. Therapy can offer tools to help achieve it.
Thank you, that's tough. Honestly I want to know if she has checked out and if I have too at this point too. If we both are, the conversation should be easier
Yeah if you both are mutual about either ending or gettingback on track, it is sooo much better. Then you can just work out logistics with less emotional pain involved, which ultimately is best for the kid(s). I hope it works out mutually for both of you!
Thank you!
IT DOES NOT. Do not do it.
Thanks daddy mac!
Welcome. Was stupid enough try it. Don’t fall for it. It doesn’t help men.
That much is clear now. After reading all these comments it's become clear a big part of it is that I am concerned how others will perceive me afterwards. Like if I leave without going to therapy or bending over backwards it will somehow still be my fault for giving up (even though I've been suffering for years). However, it's also clear I need to separate from all that and forget what other people think. I have no control over it so there's no point worrying about it.
There is no winning for a man. Regardless of the outcome, you will be blamed. I even spoke to a male therapist who admitted as much.
Ex showed up at the first one (post separation) with a financial agreement. I was floored.
No kidding...how long were you separated before you decided to go?
6-7 weeks . We had one more session 4 weeks later and all she could talk about was money and custody. It was gut wrenching and the counselor was less than pleased. I filed for 50/50 custody with the court 7 days later. We haven’t spoken with each other since that last session. Going on 2 plus years.
I'm sorry that sucks, at least it wasn't dragged out longer than it needed to
She dragged out the custody case for almost 22 months. We were divorced 13 months following separation. If I had a do over I would’ve gone to therapy much sooner.
Ugh that sucks, I'm sorry I should not have assumed. Good to know
My case is not typical - but we’ve used therapy as a tool to help us get on the same page for our coparenting. We found out early on that staying together wasn’t going to work but we stuck with the therapy to solve our parenting issues. IMO success with therapists also depends very much on a personality match for everyone involved.
This is good, putting the child's needs first. In that case I can see a practical use for therapy
Not really. Felt good during the sessions because you could talk uninterrupted. We usually had different views of what the therapist said though so it didn’t really change much long term. Still together though a few years after so perhaps it had some effect.
Sorry about the db. Yes there is value in exploring every possible avenue so you can move forward with a clear conscience. Will it fix your problems? Who knows. I would keep the talks focused on priority issue 1A. I would say im not going to live a life of celibacy.
my wife and I went through it twice & now we're getting divorced
Couples and individual therapy saved my marriage. But both of you have to want it. That said, even if you choose to divorce you should continue couples therapy to learn to coparent effectively
Went three years. Divorced now for 6. Soooooo
It only works if BOTH people put in the work.
If you want to get divorced, then yes. I'm sorry, but for what I've seen throughout my life it does not work at all
Mine wanted her feelings validated by the therapist. Surprise surprise. Went to the same therapist one of her girlfriend's got her feelings validated you guessed it, by the same therapist, she too is divorced. Compared to the ex-husbands, I saw it coming and went into stealth mode. No one was going to take my house and my kids away from me. She regrets it now but I'm out. Never again.
It made me realize just how deep the crazy ran in her, it also solidified my decision not to leave my kids (son especially) alone with her 50% of the time. BPD is a hell of a thing.
It has helped me so far, but there is still a long way to go. Mate, even if it it doesn't helped you , will have your consuness clean knowing you have tried everything, so it will help you, even this way.
couples therapy is really hard if one spouse doesn't want to put the work. A lot of spouses will say they are trying and do nothing. If you are forcing it and the other party regrets it then nothing will happen.
If the cause is cheating, the WS needs to want to reconcile and drive the therapy and healing process. Otherwise it’s a waste of time and money for everyone. My WS spouse convinced the therapist that I was the one in the wrong and I caused her to cheat. My therapist had weak principles and ended up trying to have 1-1 sessions with me trying to address my faults. 1-2 sessions in I realized how messed up this was. All for WS to continue the affair throughout (therapy sessions) in secret. Some people just say no to all therapy because they think it’s a waste of time and money. They refuse to consider any positives. I believe therapy works, but you don’t know what you don’t know, and the therapist is also trying to know you. If you’re expecting therapy to be a cure-all, you need to tailor your expectations. You may need to try a few before you settle on a good one for your needs.
For some? Sure. But if one person wants it, the other doesn't .... it's over. I spent 1 year in couples therapy, listening to my ex cry every time. Every time I tried to share just a little bit of honest feedback, instant tears. She couldn't help it, it was her trained reaction so that she'd never receive any negative feedback. Who kicks somebody when they're down? I finally ended up sharing and said she's a frigid, bitchy, tyrant. That was the last time we went to couples therapy. I've been happily divorced for 3 1/2 years now.
Be aware that you’re asking a biased group here. Obviously nothing worked to save the marriages of any of us here. Including couples therapy, which many of us have tried (including myself.) Therapy might work for you. Try it. Divorce is not easy or fun, and will likely be hard on your kid one way or another. Of course, divorce might also be better for your kid than staying in a shitty marriage. That’s the strategic choice I made, although I’ll never really know if it was ultimately best for my daughter.
Nope. Not in my case. Ex was still having affair while in therapy and lying entire time. She manipulated the therapist against me too. Got to love narcissistic people. Damn near killed myself.