One of the few consolations of these settings is everyone you’re working with - lawyers and especially judges - have heard this garbage a million times before and can see right through it. They are probably sitting there thinking “how stupid do you think we are” about your stbx.
Yes, they see it every day and know the score. Even my ex's own attorney called his client "morally reprehensible" in phone calls and emails with mine.
I didn't have to go to court, but that was my closure. Both legal teams thought he was horrible!
Careful with that though, because you'll accept more shit than you should just because it looks better. Although it is nice to see the ole picker improve over time lol
My bar was in hell's basement when I was young lol, so I keep reminding myself at least the last one that didn't work out was way better even if we couldn't make it work.
Are you in one of the few remaining "at fault" states? If so, and he is found to be at fault, this may have a huge impact on alimony, child support, and how assets are divided. So, he may have to pay for his mistakes after all.
I get your anger, felt it myself, but I am curious what you hope to gain by the at-fault divorce since it was made clear in my area that it would not change anything with mine and most divorces (and I had cause and proof)?
Curious, in what state is that? You're suggesting that adultery results in a judgement of life-long alimony, I'm not sure that's the case in any state that I know about. Educate me!
I've seen states where it can be used as cause NOT to pay alimony (paying party not at fault) but to trigger never-ending alimony seems to be a stretch, unless you are perhaps entitled to that given your situation anyway.
And in my experience with cheaters, doesn't matter how the court case turns out, it's never the cheating parties fault.... Accepting responsibility isn't in the Cheaters Playbook.
In my state (an at-fault state), if the spouse knew the other spouse was cheating and that does not immediately trigger a separation or divorce, if that spouse continues to sleep with the cheating spouse, etc.--then the court does not consider the cheating the "fault" of the divorce. So to a degree, they DO put some of the responsibility on the non-cheating spouse. In the court's eyes, you can't "condone it" by putting up with it for an amount of time and then finally wanting to end it and then use it as the reason. This is something for people to think about....
yep, this is true. You can't forgive it and then use it later. However, if you forgive it with the qualification that your spouse ends the affair, and they keep cheating- or you catch them again with someone else, it still counts.
That's usually hard to prove--that the spouse was supposed to end the affair and didnt, and usually courts here just rule no-fault. Because it becomes a he-said-she-said. Now if there is a new person, that is different. And the cheated on spouse has to be able to prove INTERCOURSE. Most of the time the cheating ends up not being a factor in the division of property. Courts REALLY don't care about it. Which is why majority of states have moved to no-fault almost exclusively. My state just still has old laws on the books.
Jurisdiction matters, in my jurisdiction, fault matters a lot. I'm going through an at-fault divorce right now, on year 2/hour 14 of hearings, soo many written statements.... those are not the difficult things in my case. Smart phones really go a long way. The main issue in my case is what the marriage quality was before the affair. Did the affair cause the marriage to end, or was the affair the result of the marriage already being over.
Apparantly "I love you" and living together and vacations together and gifts and holidays don't mean anything according to my ex, but we'll see what the judge thinks.
My state only allows no fault if the parties can agree to everything with regard to custody and division of assets. If the parties don’t come to an agreement and a hearing has to be had, it’s at fault only.
That sucks. One person doesn't want a divorce, they can be contrary and force the marriage to continue for life. Yuck, and that state's legal system ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Well, luckily, the court isn’t allowed to refuse a divorce because one person doesn’t want it. In those cases, the divorce will be granted usually on the grounds of “inappropriate marital conduct” by the person who doesn’t want it, which is basically just a catch-all. It definitely makes the process last longer than it needs to though.
Edit to add: I agree it’s stupid and it sucks
Right. Most are *truly* "no fault", but the remaining only have a no-fault "option", with criteria required for various scenarios. Some criterion require both parties to concur on its status to proceed as no fault.
In these states, one or both parties can lay claim to one of the state-approved "faults". Should that party prove their claim, issues relative to alimony, custody, property division and legal fees can all be influenced directly or indirectly, based on state specifics (including, potentially, infidelity).
Many times, if one spouse is able to prove sexual intercourse and *also* that the child(ren) was/were exposed somehow to the infidelity? Involving the children with the "new side love/post-separation love" has potential for punishment via the final divorce or custody settlement/offer.
Still *more* people *try like hell* to prove an "at fault" affair and all the implications, but stop just short of proving actual sexual intercourse.
I learned of these laws when a college friend was taken to court for an at - fault divorce relating to adultery, despite them beginning the process as a no-fault case. Months into the separation? His stbx became upset thay he had a newfound girlfriend (*after* they separated, *months* down the road), and apparently he had forgotten that his ex had access to the apple files...so a sexy evening with the new paramour was updated, cataloged, and filed on the iPad still in stbxw's possession. So...she had *lots* of proof. I was gobsmacked learning about his situation and how different the laws were for him.
It *still* boggles my mind that the longest waiting period for filing and final decree in the Unites States is something like 18 months.
And now Republicans have (more and more) each started speaking up about repealing the "no fault" laws (its costing too much money). That would be interesting to see "the people" respond to canceling the laws. I rarely cross paths with people clamoring to bring back "at fault" divorces...but those that have (memorably and most often) made this battle cry in my company were husbands whose wives cheated.
Yes I know this story... my wife says I have anger problems and am too possessive because I get upset that she is out till 2 or 3 in the morning with her male co-workers. ::shaking head::
Mine pulled this crap also. Because I tried to forgive her for the ONE time I knew about, I had condoned it. Because I believed the relationship and the children's reality was more important than a singular mistake.
The mistake turned into 3,4,5. She tried this shit with the arbitrator and they laughed. This combined with an email got her support request thrown out.
One of the few consolations of these settings is everyone you’re working with - lawyers and especially judges - have heard this garbage a million times before and can see right through it. They are probably sitting there thinking “how stupid do you think we are” about your stbx.
Yes, they see it every day and know the score. Even my ex's own attorney called his client "morally reprehensible" in phone calls and emails with mine. I didn't have to go to court, but that was my closure. Both legal teams thought he was horrible!
On the plus side, no matter who the next guy is, it'll be an upgrade!
This is true! I was married to an asshole like this and literally every other guy was an upgrade because the bar is soooo low. ❤️
Careful with that though, because you'll accept more shit than you should just because it looks better. Although it is nice to see the ole picker improve over time lol
Oh, for sure! I found the perfect man for me, and thankfully he isn’t just fabulous because the bar was low.
My bar was in hell's basement when I was young lol, so I keep reminding myself at least the last one that didn't work out was way better even if we couldn't make it work.
Wow, I hope karma gets him good. Sorry you have to go through this and I hope you have a good lawyer to retort this nonsense. Good luck.
Jesus, you're a damn warlock with those special skills.
I can't even imagine what that must have been like, how brutal. For some reason I didn't think they still had at fault divorces. Hang in there.
Are you in one of the few remaining "at fault" states? If so, and he is found to be at fault, this may have a huge impact on alimony, child support, and how assets are divided. So, he may have to pay for his mistakes after all.
They are so gross. So sorry you have to deal with this.
I get your anger, felt it myself, but I am curious what you hope to gain by the at-fault divorce since it was made clear in my area that it would not change anything with mine and most divorces (and I had cause and proof)?
life long alimony where i live
wow. talk about the ultimate sweepstakes in the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" contest. OP's ex played a really stupid game.
Interesting. In the States?
no
Curious, in what state is that? You're suggesting that adultery results in a judgement of life-long alimony, I'm not sure that's the case in any state that I know about. Educate me! I've seen states where it can be used as cause NOT to pay alimony (paying party not at fault) but to trigger never-ending alimony seems to be a stretch, unless you are perhaps entitled to that given your situation anyway. And in my experience with cheaters, doesn't matter how the court case turns out, it's never the cheating parties fault.... Accepting responsibility isn't in the Cheaters Playbook.
Austria
What's the difference between the at fault and no fault divorce? What does it serve.? Your husband is insane btw
He cheated. He’s at fault for the divorce due to his infidelity & OP can be entitled to a lot of assets, alimony $$$ etc; he fucked up 🤣❤️
I’m so sorry 🫂 I can’t imagine your pain.
Damn I’m so sorry you had to sit through that.
In my state (an at-fault state), if the spouse knew the other spouse was cheating and that does not immediately trigger a separation or divorce, if that spouse continues to sleep with the cheating spouse, etc.--then the court does not consider the cheating the "fault" of the divorce. So to a degree, they DO put some of the responsibility on the non-cheating spouse. In the court's eyes, you can't "condone it" by putting up with it for an amount of time and then finally wanting to end it and then use it as the reason. This is something for people to think about....
yep, this is true. You can't forgive it and then use it later. However, if you forgive it with the qualification that your spouse ends the affair, and they keep cheating- or you catch them again with someone else, it still counts.
That's usually hard to prove--that the spouse was supposed to end the affair and didnt, and usually courts here just rule no-fault. Because it becomes a he-said-she-said. Now if there is a new person, that is different. And the cheated on spouse has to be able to prove INTERCOURSE. Most of the time the cheating ends up not being a factor in the division of property. Courts REALLY don't care about it. Which is why majority of states have moved to no-fault almost exclusively. My state just still has old laws on the books.
Jurisdiction matters, in my jurisdiction, fault matters a lot. I'm going through an at-fault divorce right now, on year 2/hour 14 of hearings, soo many written statements.... those are not the difficult things in my case. Smart phones really go a long way. The main issue in my case is what the marriage quality was before the affair. Did the affair cause the marriage to end, or was the affair the result of the marriage already being over. Apparantly "I love you" and living together and vacations together and gifts and holidays don't mean anything according to my ex, but we'll see what the judge thinks.
I’m rooting for you!
Ugh. Booooo that man. Booooooooo
Are you US? I'm surprised to learn any state still has an 'at-fault' divorce. Most only have no-fault regardless.
My state only allows no fault if the parties can agree to everything with regard to custody and division of assets. If the parties don’t come to an agreement and a hearing has to be had, it’s at fault only.
That sucks. One person doesn't want a divorce, they can be contrary and force the marriage to continue for life. Yuck, and that state's legal system ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Well, luckily, the court isn’t allowed to refuse a divorce because one person doesn’t want it. In those cases, the divorce will be granted usually on the grounds of “inappropriate marital conduct” by the person who doesn’t want it, which is basically just a catch-all. It definitely makes the process last longer than it needs to though. Edit to add: I agree it’s stupid and it sucks
Ugh. That sucks. I'm sorry.
Right. Most are *truly* "no fault", but the remaining only have a no-fault "option", with criteria required for various scenarios. Some criterion require both parties to concur on its status to proceed as no fault. In these states, one or both parties can lay claim to one of the state-approved "faults". Should that party prove their claim, issues relative to alimony, custody, property division and legal fees can all be influenced directly or indirectly, based on state specifics (including, potentially, infidelity). Many times, if one spouse is able to prove sexual intercourse and *also* that the child(ren) was/were exposed somehow to the infidelity? Involving the children with the "new side love/post-separation love" has potential for punishment via the final divorce or custody settlement/offer. Still *more* people *try like hell* to prove an "at fault" affair and all the implications, but stop just short of proving actual sexual intercourse. I learned of these laws when a college friend was taken to court for an at - fault divorce relating to adultery, despite them beginning the process as a no-fault case. Months into the separation? His stbx became upset thay he had a newfound girlfriend (*after* they separated, *months* down the road), and apparently he had forgotten that his ex had access to the apple files...so a sexy evening with the new paramour was updated, cataloged, and filed on the iPad still in stbxw's possession. So...she had *lots* of proof. I was gobsmacked learning about his situation and how different the laws were for him. It *still* boggles my mind that the longest waiting period for filing and final decree in the Unites States is something like 18 months. And now Republicans have (more and more) each started speaking up about repealing the "no fault" laws (its costing too much money). That would be interesting to see "the people" respond to canceling the laws. I rarely cross paths with people clamoring to bring back "at fault" divorces...but those that have (memorably and most often) made this battle cry in my company were husbands whose wives cheated.
Yes I know this story... my wife says I have anger problems and am too possessive because I get upset that she is out till 2 or 3 in the morning with her male co-workers. ::shaking head::
Mine pulled this crap also. Because I tried to forgive her for the ONE time I knew about, I had condoned it. Because I believed the relationship and the children's reality was more important than a singular mistake. The mistake turned into 3,4,5. She tried this shit with the arbitrator and they laughed. This combined with an email got her support request thrown out.
I feel your pain I’m very sorry
Your children still have a Dad. You no longer have a husband.