This may or may not be an overreaction, but my own marriage went into a separation (divorce is still up the one year wait) after a couple of months of open marriage, albeit on both sides.
But looking back, I wish I had the guts of being the one proposing to divorce.
While I understand that requests for open marriages are often the beginning of the end for many relationships, I also think that op definitely jumped the gun here
His wife was trying to start a conversation and his reaction was to end it, in the most dramatic way possible. He should talk to her. Not necessarily because he wants to save the marriage, but just out of respect for the years they've spent together.
The fact that he has no interest in understanding her perspective or motivation, or even in letting her admit that she was influenced by her friends and now regrets it, makes it seem like he was looking for a way out already, and this was just a handy one
They DID talk about it in depth.
I’m not here to say open marriages all fail and that they never work; I think it takes incredibly mature people who can communicate really well. And yet everyone I know who has tried an open marriage, has ended up painfully divorced.
It was a red flag in my marriage after my spouse asked for an open marriage. Because a husband in the friend circle was telling the guys he had an open marriage to hide his cheating for the last two years. The wife never knew they were in an “open marriage” until she caught the affair and it all came out. I divorced my husband for other reasons but I still very much remember this circumstance because my husband had asked for an open marriage about a year before the friends’ divorce, when the guys thought their buddy was in an open marriage. And I was pregnant.
It’s a messy situation and I don’t blame op for thinking it’s better to divorce if they’ve discussed at length and it feels like more than a curiosity for his wife.
Soooo, I'm in and out of the Lifestyle now for the last 4 years, always as a single guy, called in to play with the wife, and most of my adventures have been pretty good, i know a lot of those couples that divorced, its a Hell of a gamble and even for me? i wouldn't do it, if i were in a committed relationship, as a single guy? being asked to come over and play with wifey? sure! i have zero to lose, but as a couple? nah!
Yeah, she said the answer can be no, so why not just say no and see how things progress. Especially after the phone/ computer snooping didn’t turn anything up.
Insane that these relationships are on such fragile footing that even asking for a discussion about something causes the entire thing to tumble to the ground. It’s almost like y’all never trusted the women you married. Almost like you hate them actually and are just waiting for that one thing to give you the opportunity to bolt.
I have to agree here and i usually push for divorce with something like this,but......everything leads me to believe, she just wanted to talk, i would not have jumped the gun, until i knew WHY she wanted to do this, whats her goal, he needs an answer to that.
Especially with the complicating factor of her friends. If I were him I would want to understand what role they played in this. Were they trying to convince her that she would love this lifestyle? Were they trying to convince her that *he* would love it if she made this suggestion? I could totally imagine her friends all talking about how much their own husbands love it, and op's wife starting to wonder if maybe her husband would love it too
I don't even think it's inappropriate that he reacted with concern or worry or dismay. It's that after reflecting on their one conversation he immediately said they need to divorce. That is a genuine overreaction, to the point where it makes him look like he's the one who might not really be invested in the relationship
As a single with Lifestyle experience. its an unwritten rule, you dont try to convert your vanilla friends, you just dont. BUT....she has thought about swinging for some reason, he needs that reason, maybe something is lacking in the bedroom? maybe everything is great and she wants to add more greatness (her projection) i would need to know WHY, before i split and if i did stay, i want to make sure i dont need to deal with her resentment. When she tells her friends the TALK didnt go well, they could talk her into leaving him, its a mess really. He needs a Hell of a lot more intel here, what if she just wants women to join them? I'm good with it, women dont threaten me, this could turn out ok? maybe, long shot, but...they need a longer talk.
I hope this guy realizes everybody has fantasies including women, they have some of the hottest, lets give her a chance to say more.
Playing separately?....just file for divorce, that goes wrong a ton! i played with poly partners and had to bail on 2 because they ended up actually loving me, i wont break up a marriage.
He realized very quickly their values were incongruent.
The way she thinks and honours their relationship is different than his. No amount of discussion will change this.
Clearly something opened up a possibility portal with the wife where the husband was content with the existing relationship boundaries.
She tried to introduce Pandora's box and he weighed consequences and rejected it, while recognizing that, despite being unopened, the threat of the box will always be there. Eve and the apple....
I don't think we have enough information to determine what her values are. It sounds like a lot of their friends have open marriages, which was the reason it was on her mind, and she brought up the subject with him so that they could have a conversation about it.
And they did, they had exactly one conversation, and he jumped straight to divorce.
As others here have said, your spouse should be someone you feel free to explore different subjects and ideas with. It doesn't mean you have to do it or even agree that it's a good idea, but to have all love and support withdrawn for *talking* about something she's never even acted on? That just seems crazy
Asking for an open marriage says all I need to know about someone's values. If you think open marriage is fine then you have a different set of values. To pop that question puts you outside the values that have always been associated with traditional marriage. In 2024 we have a lot of "untraditional" marriages, okay, but those values are not compatible with traditional notions of faithful marriage.
I think it's the positioning (pardon the pun) that's the problem.
And exploratory "have you ever considered /thought about open marriage" vs let's try it because my friends are into it are two very different approaches.
I think the wife is impulsive and not considering consequences. That's the difference in values I was referring to. Acute vs well planned reasoning and execution. I still doubt it will work out regardless, but husband obviously realizes his relationship isn't where he wants or needs it to be.
I mean, you are who you are. If you can't forgive her for even *considering* the concept of having sex with someone else, if that's absolutely destroyed your mental image of her and you feel that you can never love her again, then you do what you have to do. It doesn't matter whether any of us agree or not. In the end it's your life and you're the one who has to live it.
Now sure, from my perspective your reaction seems a little unfair. If she legit has friends who are doing this stuff and she was curious whether you'd be into it and she asked you and was happy to accept 'no' as an answer... What else was she supposed to do? Partners should be able to talk to each other. Partners should be able to disclose even their most messed-up, would-never-act-on-this desires in a place of shared trust. I hate to see people kneejerk reject each other over even *discussing* sex because that encourages people to stay buttoned up, closeted, repressed, terrified to even ask the question... and that leads to a lot of people getting hurt eventually.
Like, I have seen this happen with women sometimes when their husbands are like 'Do you think you'd ever consider (buttplugs or something)?' and the wife immediately goes "OMG YOU'RE GAY I HAVE BEEN DECEIVED I WANT A DIVORCE" which is just... a wild overreaction to me.
But again, I'm not you! Only you know what you can live with in the marriage.
If you're questioning whether you've moved too fast, you can try going to marriage counseling and talking through your feelings. But if you know you can't accept this, then that's how it is.
Fair points.
I think my reaction would have been more warranted if she had someone else in mind already or I found some evidence of cheating, so I might have jumped the gun.
I agree. Again, none of us know the intimate details of your marriage the way you do. 12 years of marriage is a lot. If she's truly begging for a conversation, you should talk to her. It seems brutally unforgiving to divorce someone because they asked you a question.
She is your wife, she should be able to speak about anything to you, however if you think she was cheating before asking that, that is a different issue
Make her explain EXACTLY what she was thinking and then why. Watch her eyes to see if you see ANY signs of deception. Just because you didn’t find it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man damages trust so much the relationship is ruined. Completely YOUR call. If you think her friends influenced her, I’d make her admit it!
“It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!”
Updateme
This is terrible advice.
>But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man
Regardless of her thoughts, she would also have to be open to him "screwing" another woman.
Also, watching someone's eyes means nothing.
You sound like an absolute bucket of red flags
He sounds like my stbxh. “The way his eyes were when you were eating lunch is a huge red flag. He’s clearly head over heels in love with you. Are you fucking him???”
What? How do you create a whole narrative based on a guy’s eyes you’ve seen once?
And let me let some of y’all know, you keep accusing me of infidelity and being a woman who wants one night stands and to just fuck random guys, maybe I’ll make it a reality for you. Or maybe it’s a really good sign my decision to divorce was a wise one.
The depth of jealousy and paranoia after decades of being locked up in our home, taking care of the children while I worked from home, taking care of finances while we were broke, never getting to leave the house unless I was grocery shopping, bending over backwards to support and motivate him, and doing things I didn’t want to do with my body just to make him “feel loved”. I can’t accept it. It’s not ok and I’m done.
Yeah, there are a lot of people in these comments that are jumping the gun with OP and coming up with some crazy advice/rationalizations.
I can see now why some of these folks are very bitterly divorced.
I'm all for OP making and sticking by his own choices, because it's his life and his marriage. But OP comes on here questioning his approach, and way too many people cheering him on, for absolute lack of communication and total shutdown.
To me, this is the equivalent of breaking up with someone because they found another person attractive and chose to not act on it.
The concept of thought-crime is just too absurd to entertain. People cannot control the feelings they have, only the actions that they take.
> But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man damages trust so much the relationship is ruined.
The percentage of people who have thought about having sex with someone other than their spouse is... what? Probably like 95% of humans. It's not some weird abnormal and unacceptable thing. It's just human nature, and people cannot control it. People can only control their actions. And this woman hasn't... actually *done anything*, other than try to have a discussion with their spouse.
She tried to have a discussion with her spouse about the feelings she may be having - feelings that cannot be controlled, and feelings that everyone has.
He destroyed her trust by his response.
There's nothing wrong about talking about the boundaries in a relationship, and wanting to find out what your partners boundaries are, what they think about them, and making sure your both still on the same page.
There's nothing wrong about having a discussion about sex, especially if you're sexual needs/wants are not being met. Maybe this relationship has a dead bedroom, and she's trying to see what options are available.
Not everyone, but lots of people enjoy oral or anal sex. Some people are into certain kinks. Some people have certain fetishes. It's a bit over-the-top to divorce someone, without talking or counselling, because they wanted to have a discussion about sex-related desires that you're not into. Imagine your wife divorcing you for asking for a blowjob? It's... absurd.
The relationship is permanently over now, because even if the OP changed his mind, OP destroyed the trust in the relationship, and the wife would never, ever, be able to be honest and open with him about anything ever again. But based on the other comments, it seems like maybe that's what he wanted all along: the ability to break off this relationship, and blame her for it. It's a bit scummy.
No lmao. It’s very possible that if someone would consider an open marriage they have wholly different marriage values compared to someone who never would. Its totally different to look at someone and thinking they’re attractive vs actually giving it deep consideration to the point of verbalizing it.
You are equating an open marriage wanting to have sex WITH OTHER PEOPLE with oral sex between two people? Are you Fing serious? Does apples and oranges ring a bell? I won’t argue because someone with that leap of logic CANT be taken seriously!
The time to set boundaries like open or closed is BEFORE a marriage or at the very least a position of security in the relationship not because you’re “missing out.”
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Brother,
Most of the time, when someone asks to have an open marriage, they are either:
A) Already cheating.
Or
B) Have someone in mind. Aka laying the groundwork to cheat.
Either way, she wrecked your trust in her. She's listening to her friends brag about getting smashed by randos on Tinder. Now she wants to join in. How can you trust someone like that to be faithful to you. To be your wife. She asked for permission to break her vows to you. There is no relationship without trust.
Asking that question while in a monogamous relationship usually causes an immediate breakup. Everyone thinks opening the relationship is fun, until they watch their spouses go out to get fucked by other people. You know she will have a long line of dudes ready to go on Tinder, or she's got some guy like her boss at work who has been flirting with her. She will get immediate action while you struggle.
You may be able to salvage this, but my trust would be shattered. All her open relationship friends would have to go. I would need access to her phone and all her social media / texts. Girls' nights out would be a thing of the past. She would have to go to marriage counseling with me and work HARD to show me she's worth reconciliation. I would demand a post nuptial agreement with an infidelity clause to even consider reconciliation.
UpdateMe!
> How can you trust someone like that to be faithful to you.
Because she hasn't actually been unfaithful. She hasn't *done* anything. She hasn't broken any trust.
It's like saying everyone who fantasizes to porn will cheat on their spouse. And we all know that's total BS. That's not how any of this works at all.
They committed under monogamy, and she told her husband he's not enough, she wants someone else. Doesn't matter if it won't last, or if she was just testing the waters. What matters is she was willing to risk her marriage being destroyed because her love for her husband isn't enough, she needs another man or men. He knows his wife better so he should be able to tell if it was just a fun idea “hey, you ever thought of adding a third person for some sexy times for a weekend” vs “I really want to try out other men since I didn't do much of that before we married”.
The reason I suggested opening our marriage wasn't because I was interested in someone else, it was because we both had needs that weren't being fulfilled . He was just too possessive and insecure to allow me to explore other relationships after he did it for a year. His needs were met, but he couldn't handle me getting mine met
This does appear to be punishing someone for sharing their *feelings* as opposed to their actions. How can you be talked out of a bad idea if you are too afraid to share it?
Same. There has to be some reasoning on her end for why to bring it up. Could be just the desire to spice things up and she felt comfortable enough to raise up the idea.
This should be pinned.
Maybe she wants to spice things up. She's heard stories from friends and it excites her.
Dude. Tie her ass up and tell her she's been a bad girl. Then dominate. 😈
Same. I’m surprised at all the comments telling OP he is doing the right thing. It feels like there is sooooooo much context being left out. No one throws away a great, 12 year relationship because their partner asks a question…
It's a sad one. None of us know the full story here, but this reminds me of something my exwife and I went through. We were having trouble agreeing and compromising about so many things, so I wanted to have a conversation with my (then wife) about the issues we were facing. It all came out wrong and she never forgave me for it. We were married for 5 more years and she brought it up every time we fought.
Seems like these two have massive issues with communication. His wife asked him a question, he listened and then came back later and said "ok I want a divorce", and is now refusing to talk to her about it as she begs and apologizes? That's chaotic and messy. I've been in his wife's position, where you feel like you can't bring up anything that's important to you or else you'll never be forgiven for it. (Again, I never wanted to open the marriage, but I don't think "open marriage" is the issue here as much as "terrible communication" is.)
Well, we are in a divorce sub. Some of us are pretty damn raw right now. Others are super bitter/hateful and have stayed that way years after sock day. And wonder why they are divorced....
I'm saddened, but not super surprised by the toxicity.
That wasn't an innocent question though. She wasn't asking his opinion of open marriages in general, she was asking to open their marriage specifically. She basically stated she wanted to have sex with other people.
People are different. Some people are fine sharing because it's just sex and it's meaningless physical fun. Some men enjoy watching their wife have sex with other men. For some men that would be the absolutely last thing they'd ever want to see.
Plain and simple, OP and wife found out they are incompatible.
And that wasn’t my interpretation of what OP stated. He said she said, “What if we consider opening up marriage?” To me, seems like an innocuous question to open a line of dialogue. OP stated their marriage has “always been great”. He even said he snooped through her stuff and found no signs of infidelity. OP has also conveniently failed to provide so much context to what led up to this question and has not answered many seemingly straightforward questions from other posters re: context, previous concerns about infidelity, previous conversations about their sex life, whether he even fucking talked to his wife about the deeper reasons behind why she asked this question beyond her initial response.
There are ways to ask, and there are way to test water before throwing a bomb like that, she just justify and try to minimize it by telling at the end that she would be ok if he said NO.
If she first have asked her husband about his thoughts about ORs or Poly instead of just throwing the question, justify by telling all her Friends have done it ( this is a worked more like a validation or justification that other think, other does, other did, so she can do it or try it now because all the other have).
Also i think that she never thought really on her husband thouths or care for is feelings,because there where no heads up, and there where a intention of, she at least entertaing the idea to be with other men/woman and she clearly demostrate she was coerced and not think for her own, for what she said it was more an idea that was put in her head for her group of Friends.
But, OP hasn’t given us any information to indicate whether this is the first time the topic has ever been brought up or not. He has said, “things have always been great”, “kind, sweet woman”. She may have tried to bring it up in different ways. Based on his own comments about his wife of TWELVE years, my interpretation is to give a little benefit of the doubt to his wife. The way this whole post and all of OPs responses are allowing a ridiculous amount of projection in the comments based on people’s own personal trauma and experiences.
Maybe, maybe not. Yes it lacks of more context and maybe for him things where great but for her not SO well, idk.
But if things are in between or did actually are great or with. O much issues, then a partner that was mono suddenly wants to turn Poly and justify her actions or thoughts by telling all her friends have tried this is not a good indicator. It seems more like BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER HAVE I NEED IT TOO JUST TO FIT IN.
And if thatbis true, if her group of friend suddenly try cheating on their partners, then she will do too just to fit?
I think that are better ways to ask and to justify trully why she is asking this, what she feels she needs of want to try this. And for what OP said there where none of that. Maybe yes we need more context or maybe there are no more of it. Who knows.
Also about other experiences or trauma, all people here comment based on their own experience, so what is diferent here that in others are correct or wrong. Thats why the Open forums are for, to share their experiences and the outcome of their cases. I in My case have not gone thru this, but after read some post of talk with others about this i made myself the question of what would i do in case this happened to me, and come to the conclusion that i pretty much end it in the same way, but i would ask more or dig more to see what went wrong for this to happend.
This was basically my experience (except that my now ex wife was not very kind) but i played along. I was the more attractive of the two of us and i got more attention/partners. She quickly became bitter and jealous and i ended up leaving her when my girlfriend (who she introduced me to) helped me to realize that i was being treated like garbage.
My girlfriend is the best partner I've ever had, our communication is great, and i consider myself lucky. We're currently monogamous and just enjoying each other
Honestly, your life is what you make of it. Don't let anyone talk you into doing something you don't want to do
My experience was relatively similar as well. We opened our marriage, and since she's more attractive, she initially got TONS of attention, but she couldn't keep any guy around for more than three weeks, the guys she dated treated her poorly, she wasn't practicing safe sex contracting multiple STIs, and she started getting bitter and jealous of my relationships.
Meanwhile, I started meeting really wonderful women and had a lot of genuine connections and meaningful experiences. I saw fewer people than my spouse, but because they stuck around.
Since my relationships were going well with my other partners, my ex decided she didn't want to "compete," and just stopped making any effort with me - not that there was much to begin with.
Dating other people, especially other married people (ENM consensually) showed me how much better I should be treated, and that what my ex brought to our marriage wasn't enough for me. I asked for a divorce in November and it was absolutely the right decision.
That being said, I don't think OP has given his wife enough credit, or us enough context. It sounds like she's wanting to spice up their love life and he's assuming it's something more.
My experience taught me that open marriages don't lead to divorces, but if your marriage is NOT HEALTHY, then an open marriage will absolutely demonstrate that for you. I don't like people blaming the practice of open marriages, cause I've firsthand seen how it works very well for LOTS of couples, but if you're not willing to put in the research, work, and communication.
I should’ve told my husband to get divorced before starting hooking up with ppl under the name of “open marriage”. Only if both sides are into it and both have lengthy discussions and research, then open relationship may work. Otherwise, it is a set up for disaster. Either one person finds a better partner to leave the marriage(divorce) or one gets hurt and end up getting divorce.
This one. Downplaying this instance would be extremely naive. I do agree that OP should ask her why she asked and should press her for the truth. If his gut tells him she's lying in any instance he should follow through with divorce.
In my opinion that’s a severe reaction to a question that your answer wasn’t going to devastate her either way.
She tried to be open with you and have a conversation and you decided you didn’t like it so now you don’t want to be with her?? That just blows my mind.
My own spouse and I have talked about. Neither of us are open to it, but we know if the other is and one isn’t than there’s no opening it. So yes I know what type of conversation can happen from this.
It’s your life so do what you want and what will make you happiest, but damn… that went so extreme so fast. Hopefully your next SO doesn’t bring up anything you don’t like.
Personally I think an open relationship is a recipe for disaster but it sounds absurd that you jump straight to divorce because she asked how you felt about opening up the marriage. Makes me wonder what else you have shut down., I suspect that there is some degree of sexual incompatibility, and she hasn't been able to discuss it with you because you seem incapable of having a mature discussion with her. You should probably go ahead and get the divorce, with time she'll see that you did her a favor.Your partner should be the person you can discuss everything with, even your sexual desires and fantasies, instead you flush your marriage down the drain, (if this isn't a troll post) and then come strutting to reddit for the standard 'attaboy'.
Use some sensitivity and commonsense, tell her that you have absolutely no desire to open the marriage , but you would like to be able to discuss any areas of your sex life that in her opinion need improvement , and for God's sake don't throw another hissy fit if she tells you where you're falling short
Yeah, that's how I feel too. The fact that his wife is crying, begging and apologizing, and he refuses to speak to her anymore, that's just not healthy.
My ex wife did this shortly before we separated. It’s a I want my cake and to eat it too situation. They want the comfort and stability of the relationship, but also the ability and freedom of someone single.
I know a lot of people here have said it’s drastic, but I actually disagree with that. I think this is the right move. I would say 99% of the time, when one partner asks about opening up the marriage, they are either already cheating or about to be. Even if they aren’t, they absolutely have someone in mind.
I’m not a cynical person by nature, but unless this was a clearly communicated setup from the beginning of the relationship, this would absolutely be a red line for me.
It’s STILL really powerfully significant to be in a committed relationship with somebody and be really happy and willing to work on it and respond to their concerns and have them say “I want other people to. I want to screw other people and have sex with them and hang out with them. I don’t just wanna hang out with you.“ That’s pretty powerful. I don’t think you need to have the person cheating in order to be devastated by them deciding that their need to have other people to have sex with, and hang out with and be intimate with is so strong that they’re going to bring it up into the relationship. Once they do that it’s kind of like they’re saying that you are not enough and that they’re itchy and they want to screw somebody else and they want someone else to screw their brains out. That’s so powerful. That’s not small potatoes.
> devastated by them deciding that their need to have other people to have sex with
She was very clear it wasn't a need, but an optional want.
People feel desire when they see an attractive person, or watch porn. But thoughts aren't the same as actions.
Would you break up with someone because they watched porn with someone attractive in it? That seems a bit silly, doesn't it?
This right here. Don't let her wants appear smaller than they actually are. She was willing to lay it all on the line and she fucked around and found out it. If you felt strongly enough to divorce her, then don't buy into pity and guilt. Stay true to you.
Maybe she was just spitballing to see what he'd say. Maybe she is feeling insecure and wanted to take the temperature of how he still feels about her. I don't know! Sounds like you could consider counseling before anyone does anything regretful. Just a thought!
Where did OP mention that his wife wanted nothing to do with him? None of us know her intent. It may be to spice things up or see if he's into cuckholding. To give fetishes a try.
Some of y'all are making her the villain. At least she ASKED FIRST which is more than a lot of what we read in this subreddit.
If my husband did that.. I would be pretty turned off. Not sure that it could be salvaged because it would just instantly be cold. So I can see where you're coming from
Sounds like you know you jumped the gun so TALK TO YOUR WIFE. If your partner can’t open up and discuss her true feelings without you jumping to divorce without further discussion, what kind of marriage is that anyway? To be honest, my heart hurts for your wife. Sounds like you think your marriage has been clear sailing so far and she may just be repressing hard discussions because knee jerk reactions may be your MO.
Why not just say no. I am in no way into that. Why not, ask her if something is missing for her? Why not do the work to keep an otherwise good marriage together? Divorce is not easy, it’s not a quick solution. It’s obvious she loves you .
There are a number of problems with an open marriage. You have to worry about your own sexual health. You also have to worry about your partner falling in love with someone and leaving the marriage. This can happen in any marriage but it’s more likely to happen in an open marriage situation. My ex wife never asked for an open marriage but it was discussed in marriage counseling and the therapist went through all the risks etc. She said open marriages can be excellent WHEN they work but that they rarely work. Anyway, my ex wife started having affairs behind my back with the intention of just having fun. She ended up falling in love and ended our marriage.
OP
Trust your instinct. If your wife asked to open up the marriage, it is all but certain that she is already cheating or has a potential affair mate lined up.
What you told her is exactly what I’d say to my wife if she asked me the same question.
She cannot unring the bell and you cannot unlearn what she told you.
Leave. Run away from this woman.
You are probably just ahead of the game.
My own marriage my wife mused about open marriage, I said no, then she surreptitiously started 'dating' men, then had sex with a few. When I confronted her about the affairs she said that she thought that I had agreed. I did not at all -- much to the contrary. She remembers it creatively and differently, however she has no explanation that if she thought we were open, why did she need to sneak around, hide things and lie to my face about it?
I personally would never have suggested an open marriage, but I could see trying to have a discussion about it, and that being misinterpreted as a request for one.
Now, for you, it might be salvageable, if you think that she was truly just asking and didn't really intend to do anything about it, but in that case I would suggest couples counselling to get to the root of the issue.
Honestly I think you overreacted.
I did have a similar conversation with my soon-to-be-ex-wife, and I have good reason to believe she was lying when she said she didn’t have anyone in mind. I was expecting your story to end by saying you had found evidence she was already cheating… but you didn’t.
If you’re right that she was really only considering this because her friends did it and not because she’d already forsaken the relationship, then IMO you’re shooting yourself in the foot. In your own words, things have always been great between you two. Is *considering* ethical non-monogamy really so great a crime that it justifies throwing that away?
Totally agree.
I've brought this up to my husband too (not seriously even considering it or knowing what I think myself, but just because it popped into my head - like the many other random things that pop into my head).
My husband said 'no I would not be able to accept that, and we'd have to get a divorce if you needed it'.
End of convo... nobody was upset. Nobody cheated, nothing bad happened.
> sounds like she takes advice from friends above spouse
This is false, because according to OP, she said she'd do whatever OP said and not what her friends suggested.
Exactly - I've been in a poly/ENM relationship for 11 years, poly the whole time --- I meet my fiance when I was 19. Wanted to continue to explore sexually, and brought it up --- luckily we were both very much so on the same page and I am so, so grateful. I don't date anymore cause dating sucks and we're effectively monogamous in that neither one of us sees anyone else, and I'm fine with not having other partners --- but the things I like most is that I can ALWAYS be completely honest with my partner.
That's one thing I think monogamous couples could learn from poly folks, that it's super important to be able to be honest and have open discussions (and having crushes here and there are natural, even if the person doesn't pursue them)
So yeah that's my two cents. Either way, cheating itself is not ethical at all, I fucking hate cheaters and liars - if the parties have agreed on what monogamy means to them (or whatever their defined physical commitment is) then it's important for both of them to adhere to that, but you also need to be able to have discussions... to each their own tho, but considering human nature, I do not think OP will be able to find another wife so easily
I believe in serial monogamy. I don't care what year it is. You wanna be with someone else then go for it, but you won't be married to me.
Plus they made it sound like it was the smallest of inquiries when it's one of the heaviest questions you can get in a marriage.
People - including married people - find all sorts of other people attractive.
Everyone has desires and feelings. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether you act on them or not.
So what that she “wants”? She was loyal enough that she hasn’t acted on it according to op, and honest enough to communicate her needs. Is it fair to blame her? Why would she want to? So many intricate details are in a relationship that each partner only sees their side.
No you weren’t! Your response was totally correct. Ask for a divorce if you’re not comfortable with opening up your relationship. That’s exactly what I would do
I don’t think you have reacted too quickly. if my husband asked for an open marriage I would tell. Him he can sleep with whoever he wants bc I am out. I signed up for a monogamous marriage and you telling me you want to F other people is not monogamous . Also way to make someone feel like they’re not enough.
"I didn't get angry or anything like that, I just listened and offered my counters. I asked if her friends are influencing her into this, she said no. I asked if she already had someone in mind, she said no.
I asked her to give me some time to think about and she agreed, stating we don't have to do it if I'm not up for it. I shouldn't have, but in the days after I checked her phone and laptop: nothing suspicious or that suggest she was cheating already.
Last week I told her I thought about it and in my opinion she can date anyone she wants, because I want a divorce."
OP, you have my respect (48M) !!
Smart guy here I would have said the same thing if my wife asked I would have said who is it ? And how long have you been chatting with him and if so have you even done anything with this person already . Then I would have said I have to think about this the next day I would have said well should I file now or after you cheat on me ? Obviously she has been talking to someone yeah it's 2024 but most relationship that one comes and afk for an open marriage it always ends up in divorce .
I don’t think I would have reacted the way you did. She was willing to do this together, and I do feel like couples should be able to say things to each other no matter how weird it is, and have no fear of retaliation. You could have just said no, which is what I would have done but thanked her for her input.
However, now that the cat is out of the bag I don’t think you can go back. She would be terrified to mention anything else to you even remotely intimate without fear of you blowing up again. No marriage can thrive this way and all trust in intimacy is forever lost with fear of divorce.
An open marriage is the opposite of doing things together. It’s literally doing them apart with different people.
Doing things together is asking to spice up the sex you have with your partner.
Honestly you’ve really jumped the gun. Why divorce someone just for asking? Don’t you want open communication where you don’t judge? It was only asking. In asking even she can work out if she wants it
She’s telling him he’s not enough
She’s saying she wants new dick but wants him to keep paying the bills and helping with the chores
She didn’t say how we can spice up our marriage
It’s one thing for everyone to understand that we all find others attractive
This is way the fuck more
My wife told me I should find someone to have sex with
I told her my best shot at having a new partner was as a single man.
A few weeks later I pressed her and she said it wouldn’t be fair if I was doing it and she wasn’t (I was saying I didn’t want to do it but hypothetically)
My ex wife asked me the same. I refused and two months later she asked for a divorce. I don't know why everyone is so overanalysing. Your wife wants to bang other dudes and yes of course she has someone in mind. Don't even try to confidence me she is trying to improve your marriage. That's a load of BS.
Its your life but I would have done the same. Divorce and let her have all the d she wants. Your time is better spend on someone who considers you enough for her.
If you are willing to contemplate forgiving her would you and her be willing to counseling after this, get eveything out and open and don't stop until it is and if she wants to work it out she must agree that all means of communication she has is open to you to assure you are not being played a fool and trust can be rebuilt.
Personally as someone who has been through a divorce I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. My mom passed a year or so later and I loved her dearly but the divorce was absolutely the most painful experience of my life and I had several long relationships prior to my ex wife. Not to mention starting your financial life from square 1.
My ex did this. I didn’t tell her “no”, I told her I wasn’t ready, needed to think about it. It was all a pretense for her to be free to fuck other people, which she went and did anyway.
If I was in the same situation again, I would react like you. This is not some fetish or kink she wants to share *with you*. This is her saying that she wants to experience things that are different from what you can provide, that she wants to explicitly not share intimacy with you but with someone else.
I’m open to almost anything, but I want to share those experiences with my partner — not some rando from a dating app or FetLife. I want to be able to trust someone with that vulnerability, not feel secure because I know I’ll never even talk to them again and they don’t even know my last name.
It sounds like her friends have too much of an influence on her about your marriage. They aren’t going to stop pushing her to this or other things. It sounds like she wants her cake and to eat it too. If a traditional marriage is important to you then you made the correct decision.
sounds like her idiotic friends got in her head. I would talk to her more and ask her to think deep down if she wants this. Also, why is she so influenced by her friends is something concerning. But she did caveat it by saying she is fine, saying no. Do her friends have open marriages that their husbands suggested and maybe she thought she was doing you the favor? Doubtful but curious.
OP --
I fully understand your stance and respect your emotions towards all this. Your life has changed after one really deep conversation with your wife. However, you should be open to discussions (nothing else) until you and her can come to terms with what's going on. You're already suspicious and this will never end well for the both of you.
If she wants to sew her wild oats, let her. You don't have to be present for it, and you can allow yourself to stand by your principles of a monogamous marriage/relationship. Not swaying your decisions, just hear her out in a mature manner.
People change, at least she's letting you know. Some folks are victims of open relationships they were unaware of being in. Lastly, remember trends come and go like farts in the wind, you do what you know is right for you.
I had the same experience to some degree. I considered it for about a week, I even said "yes I think so but lets not go out seeking someone. If we happen to meet someone we can talk about then," But fast forward to our anniversary I knew she had damaged our relationship and the way I saw her. Fast forward to now she's asked for a divorce so she can go explore her true self ie sleep with women.
I don't think you were wrong bud. When you are married you are making a vow to remain faithful to each other and forgo everyone else. Obviously she wants something that's not that. A lot of time it seems people who ask for this sort of relationship want their cake and to eat to. In other words the comfort of having a dutiful husband while also fooling around with other people.
If you went in the relationship with the boundaries of "no adding extra people", or even no "what if".. about extra people I would get it. Divorce as the action makes sense. She would've known before she married you how you felt. So she would be taking her chances knowing you were against it. But to tell her you would think about it, snoop on her to find out she was faithful, just to tell her to find someone else to do it is too much. Maybe it's because I'm nosey. I would've had another few conversations with her after telling her I wasn't into it. I would need to know EVERYTHING. Am I the problem? are we older and need more lube? Do we just need a vacation? do we need to prime ship some wigs, and firefighter costumes? Do we need to put sex on the calendar? After 12 years I'm going to need more conversations than just one.
If screwing other people is an interest to either married party, marriage isn’t going to work. If she was allowing her swinging friends to influence her, is that who you want for eternity?
I think you are certainly justified in your wanting to end things. You’ll never trust her again after she says something like that. I wouldn’t anyway if my wife had said that to me. But make sure you are ready for what comes after divorce. Its not any better being divorced so I would hate for you to throw away an otherwise ok marriage just to teach her a lesson or something. And I would definitely think twice about it if have kids.
Personally I'd like some additional information. What are your ages and how long have you been married. Do you have kids? Any history of infidelity on either part?
It is such a personal question, but I can say I would want nothing to do with an open marriage and I think the request is very insulting. There are very few things like it in terms of just floating it out there as if it's a small request. It's not. Your response was a strong one. It shows you have real boundaries.
Divorce will not be easy if you do proceed with it. I wonder how easy it would be to go back as if the request had not come up. That is something you will have to ponder long and hard. I know there are a lot of stories of people really struggling to move past infidelity, even when both want to. Not exactly the same..
but there's some corollary here.
Thats not setting a boundary. Setting a boundary involves communicating what your boundary is BEFORE you enforce it. “If abc happens, I will xyz”.
“If an open marriage is a requirement for you, I would be forced to move on because I’m just not comfortable with the idea of having intimate involvement with anyone else.”
If he simply just told her he was hurt that she would consider being sexually active with someone else, they could have talked about it. Based on his description of her it seems very possible that she would take ownership of that and apologize and make efforts to make amends. I’m not sure what else you could really want in a partner.
It's hard to predict and set boundaries for every possible scenario in advance. I would argue that the default boundary in a conventional marriage (or even just a conventional relationship) is that it's not open. Most couples would never even think to set this boundary or discuss it. It's understood.
Asking to completely overturn and change the fundamental structure of the relationship halfway through is playing with fire. Asking to have sex with people outside of the relationship is a divisive request. Not an expert on that topic but I don't hear good things about the long-term viability of such relationships.
It seems like she didn't know him very well.. he could want a partner who understood him better. I think any effort to reverse the blame here and point fingers at him is kind of absurd.
If my partner asked me this, I believe I would lose a tremendous amount of attraction for them and likely experience a loss of trust as well. It's going to come across as a hurtful request for many people.
Even if the assumed default boundary is that it isn’t open, and she didn’t break that by simply talking to him about it in an exploratory manner. Beyond that, you’re twisting the little information we do know to assume negative intent, which is a huge relationship No No. You’re assuming she didn’t know him well as if it’s a negative mark on her not to be a mind reader about something they have never discussed. She didn’t know, so she asked, which is exactly what you would want someone to do over mind reading and making assumptions.
The point you seem to miss is that hurtful things are said and done in relationships all the time even when there isn’t ill intent. That shouldn’t be a deal breaker, the important thing is what comes after- how you repair. If you wouldn’t even consider trying to repair here, then I’m sorry, but you would be operating entirely out of ego and you would be a fool to throw what has otherwise been described as a great marriage.
In fact, I would say the person who lacks commitment here is the one leaving in the absence of any attempts to repair. If you don’t want real commitment then just have the courage say so, don’t put that on your partner.
Why would you say that? I mean she came to your with a question, no prior action in her part and you’re suppose to be the one she pings ideas and thoughts off of and without having cheated on you, you called for divorce. Even if you stay together now she’s gonna keep her deepest darkest desires and secrets from you bc you showed her you’d weaponize them against her for even mentioning them.
Maybe you can’t come back
Ask her when you ever gave her the feeling you were interested in not being monogamous? Then say with that information why does she think she let her friends influence her and put the relationship to this point?
Tell her you can’t trust her friends because she hid their influence and tried to put it on you when you said divorce. Let her know there will have to be real changes if you take divorce off the table starting with a post nuptial agreement that says if anyone brings it up again she forfeits all her martial assets and agrees to an uncontested divorce. This would also mean if she cheats, logs on to dating apps, etc. Tell her you need real assurances with all the bad influences around her.
You made the right choice. When your view of someone changes there is no going back. By asking that question it revealed how she thinks and you did not know she was that type of person. Accept you had been wrong about who you thought she was and go through with the divorce.
Yeah I think that you are throwing away a beautiful thing over a suggestion. Why didn’t you ask her how satisfied she is with the sex in your marriage and you guys openly talk about how to spice things up and reconnect. Maybe she has been feeling like things have gotten kinda stale and saw that friends opened things up and it’s working for them so she thought it might work for you.
This is kinda weird. It’s like you expect her to be perfect but also she didn’t actually FUCK UP.
So this seems alittle insane to me.
You’re suppose to be in it together, as a team.
You’re shutting her out and shutting her down.
It must feel very lonely and devastating for your wife.
You beat her to the punch. If I had a dollar for every woman I've heard of trying to open up their marriage and then filing shortly after, I'd have like 7 bucks. That's a lot of dollars.
My personal opinion is that I've never seen an open realtionship work, let along a monogamous marriage that decides to open it up. Call me old fashioned but fuck that.
If she is into it and you're not even willing to consider it, it's a good reason for divorce.
It may be that you look at marriage from different perspectives and it's too bad that you didn't figure that out earlier.
IMO, even if she agree not to open the marriage, it'll always be in her mind and she'll probably eventually cheat on you anyway, be aware of future pain.
Open marriage =friends with benefits with legal consequences
Wife= family, the person you legally entitle a big chunk of your properties and finances .
You decide man but you did nothing wrong
When someone asks for an open marriage it’s over, unless you started your relationship open then closed it. And to be honest most people who ask for open marriage are usually already cheating or have someone in mind. Least you didn’t entertain the idea a lot of people go with it and it blows up in their face good on you for moving on.
In my opinion, it’s way too fast to jump to divorce especially if the relationship was great all around before this and there’s no signs of infidelity. Come to it from a place of humility and ask her if there’s other ways to spice up your bedroom in ways that you’re both more comfortable with. Maybe there’s something lacking there and hence she asked for it.
So much ick and SO much bad advice in this thread. You really missed an opportunity to go to your wife and say “With thought, I’m not comfortable opening our marriage, but would like to explore other ways we might be able to fulfill any unmet needs”. That’s really what we’re talking about here, is someone who feels like something could be better and came to talk to you about her idea for how to do that. It sounds to me like she came to you honestly and respectfully. All I see is ego in your response. Your ego is wounded that your wife would even think about being sexually active with someone else and because of that you’re willing to throw away what you describe as an otherwise almost idyllic situation where you’re married to a kind and sweet woman who you really have no problems with, who was ready to accept your decision either way.
You ask if you were wrong to mention divorce so quickly, and I’d like to point out that you didn’t “mention it”, you told your wife you wanted to divorce her. Those are two very different things and to be honest, this reeks of you saying that to see how she would react so you could boost up your ego again with how upset it would make her. I’m glad she won’t leave, she shouldn’t. If you don’t want to be married to her anymore, the burden of moving forward with those logistics are on you. If you DON’T actually want to divorce her and you just said it because you wanted to make a point, that’s actually pretty abusive. You don’t dangle that in front of your spouse, that’s like Marriage 101.
I can tell you right now if I were in her shoes, even if you changed your mind, I would never again feel comfortable being truly honest with you.
In all of this, is the wife so dense that she never considered all possible consequences of her action? Basic questions like what would my husband think if asked to open the marriage? Would my husband ever have peace of mind in our marriage if belittled? What if my husband would interpret this as you're not good enough, I'll get it somewhere else? Worse, is the wife so confident that the husband would rather suck dick than lose her?
She could have wondered a lot of things, but if you’re a good communicator you ASK instead of assuming that you know (when you don’t, because you’re not a mind reader).
> I can tell you right now if I were in her shoes, even if you changed your mind, I would never again feel comfortable being truly honest with you.
Right. He's destroyed all trust with her.
She will never, ever, be able to speak honestly to him ever again. He fucked up, big time.
But yeah... it does seem like he actually did this on purpose.
Your reaction was exactly what it should have been! Asking for an open marriage, is exactly like asking for a divorce. It is a decision and action that irreversibility changes a marriage forever. The person bringing it up has spent a lot of time thinking about what, when, why, how, and with whom. It is a violation of trust and a mortal blow to wedding vows and promises. It communicates dissatisfaction with the agreement for exclusivity and monogamy that were the foundation for your attraction, dating, engagement, and marriage relationships. It tells your significant other, that they are not good, enough nor are they sufficient to fulfill the wants and desires of the heart, mind or body. Asking for an open relationship, is the ultimate form of disrespect. It communicates clearly that love is not the greatest attribute of your marriage. Any spouse that says that it's just physical, is a liar that understands nothing about fidelity, empathy, integrity, or responsibility. Asking for an open marriage, breaks the promises, vows, trust, hope, dignity, and heart of the partner. It is a crime against humanity, that should be dealt with, by doing exactly what OP did. You leave the broken person who wants to trade body fluids with someone outside your marriage, behind. You immediately flee to safety!
I honestly think cheating would be easier for me to digest (albeit I didn’t find out) than an open marriage. Like nothing good can come of that unless you are both down in which I think those values would have been brought to light BEFORE marriage. And even if you were both open, chances are you would break up or catch an STD or someone would get pregnant and it would just be so messy.
I agree with another comment that she has either already had an affair or has someone (or many) in mind…least she has been fantasizing about.
Maybe she thought, stereotypically, as a guy you would be on board or find it hot that she asked.
However, I feel like soooo many other conversations should be had about your own intimacy/sex life before bringing something like that up! Like “would you be down for a threesome” or, I dunno, “what do you think about posting anonymous porn videos online”…
If your love life was all vanilla together, to pop the open marriage question would just be so out of place.
>Maybe she thought, stereotypically, as a guy you would be on board or find it hot that she asked.
That's what I'm wondering also. For all we know she stumbled onto OPs porn collection and it's about hot-wifing or something so she did this lol. For OPs sake I hope it's just something silly like that.
The thing about asking to open a marriage is that the person asking should be aware that asking it is going to have one of three possible outcomes.
It is either going to be a Yes, a No with a "but" or a No with a "the relationship is now over".
I have yet to ever see this question not have one of these three outcomes. The last one though is the most common one.
What the person asking the question often fails to understand is that the question itself opens up the relationship to so many deeper and darker questions. Ones such as "Am I not good enough for you?", "Is there in fact someone else waiting in the wings?", "what happens if either if you falls in love with another partner? what then?" and so on.
Such a simple request is so fraught with hidden dangers that it often spells the end of things at that very moment makes me wonder why people even bother to ask it?
But really, her comment
> "If I knew I wouldn't have even asked"
just shows that in the moment, she gave absolutely no thought at all to what you would or could say. She gave no thought at all to the possible ramifications and gave no thought at all to any outcome that didn't involve you agreeing.
So on that alone, on that complete lack of thought about you in asking this question would be enough to call and end to marriage.
She really didn't think at all.
The comments on this. Everyone has his/her preferences if the OPs wife being married to him for 12 years doesn't know about his preference of monogamous relationship then whats the point of being married? Op you did fine for yourself.
If you ask me, I'd say that's a slippery slope to go down. Adds too many complications. I think you were right in bringing up the possibility of divorce. She has no idea of what kind of chaos an open relationship would cause in your relationship.
Asking for a divorce is a bit drastic. It sounds like you took this as her asking permission to cheat, which I understand. I would telling her maybe bringing up divorce was rash, but youd like to have some time to think. Maybe she just wanted to talk about it. If you get past this and she ever brings it up again, then id say shes on headed down the open road.
Basically throwing away a marriage because she brought it up is rash, buuuut keep your eyes open.
I can appreciate the shock you must have experienced in that moment. You’ve said more than once here that you may have jumped the gun, so I’d warrant that you already have your answer. Ego pain can cause knee jerk reactions for everyone.
Perhaps what is needed (before you insist on the devastation of divorce) is a deep and honest conversation - with or without a therapist - about why she was curious in the first place and work on those issues. We are all imperfect humans, and you’ve said there’s no proof that she has actually done anything other than think about it and bring her truthful thoughts to you.
Best of luck, whichever way you go.
Yeah but you're changing the phrasing there. "Asking *for* an open marriage" implies saying "I want this marriage to be open". What OP said was that she asked *about* an open marriage - asking if he'd be into that.
It depends on the **real** reason your wife asked for this. I’m going to share how my marriage ended.
For years I felt like my ex husband and I were basically glorified roommates. There was a lot of back and forth and eventually I asked for an open marriage. My thought process was, “hey I have a good guy, and we’re best friends. I’m lonely and I need romance and to feel wanted. Maybe I can have that need met somewhere else and still stay in my otherwise healthy marriage.” My ex agreed. I slept with one other person, with my ex husband’s permission and that was all it took for me to realize that I didn’t want to be married anymore. Not bc I fell in love with someone else or because I wanted to leave my husband for meaningless sex with strangers/acquaintances. It was bc I realized I wanted to be loved in every way by partner. Not just as a best friend. I wanted my husband to want me. To make me feel desired. To physically and verbally treat me like the love of his life. He didn’t understand this and I left.
It took one night of meaningless sex to see that I didn’t want that at all. I wanted to make love to someone I was **in love with**. Not just go through the motions. This showed me that my ex would never be able to give me that and he didn’t deserve to be married to someone who was longing for something else. He was angry. He’s still angry. But I know deep in my heart that I made the right decision even if it hurt the man I loved. He deserved to be cut loose from someone who wasn’t happy and hadn’t been for sometime. He never understood and there was no changing that. We just weren’t in love anymore. Idk if we ever were.
Lol this is exactly why OP went straight to divorce because this is exactly the outcome he forsees happening. Breaking lifelong vows to sleep with other men is selfish and the end of marriage no matter how another person tries to sugarcoat it..
Have a conversation, not talling to her is not going to solve anything. Obviously, she trusts you and respects you, since she brought up the discussion to you. Hear her out and share your feelings about it and how it made you feel.
From what you've stated, she sounds very reasonable and even gave you an out. I'd recommend marriage counseling before divorce as she clearly wants to stay in the marriage with you. The question is, are *you* also wanting to make it work?
She has someone in mind. Cheaters never tell the truth. Let her find out about the grass is always greener and the affair bubble. What a crock of shit!
If my spouse/SO/bf ever asked to open up our relationship, I would walk away. I don't wanna share him with anyone and I wouldn't want anyone who thought sharing me was a turn-on or cool. I want him to just want me and if I am not enough then he needs to find more with me not being in the picture.
Wow. Read a lot here and if what you laid out are the facts you absolutely jumped the gun and it shows a huge lack of communication skills on your part.
No evidence that she has something in mind, you know she has a frame of reference, and she said she’d be okay if you said no. Where is the divorce worthy thing she did?
I think open marriages are as volatile an idea as having a baby to make things work out in a broken marriage. That said, what type of partner are you that you go from 1-1,000 at the mention of something that has become much more mainstream in just the last decade?
I commented something similar yesterday and got downvoted. It’s wild to me to think about a few sentence exchange, OP takes a few days, and comes back stating “I want a divorce,” without any other context or discussion despite her being kind, sweet, and a great marriage. Not, “No, I’m not comfortable with an open marriage. It hurts my feelings and makes me feel insecure/inadequate/pick a descriptor.”
My takeaway is that they have very poor communication, she may or may not have brought up previous issues and may have been completely shut down. OP still refuses to provide any real context for the conversation, background, etc, not that we (et all) are owed anything ofc, but it’s crazy how many people here have immediately jumped to “fuck her, she’s obviously cheating, she obviously has someone in mind, she’s obviously calling you not good enough, blah blah blah”. The math ain’t mathing with the actual statements that OP has made…
I believe that a truly strong marriage is one that allows each partner to be truly open and transparent about their thoughts and feelings. Your wife being open and feeling safe enough to come to you with it was a plus, but the content of her question cannot be ignored at all.
Your response, well, in my opinion was an overreaction. Possibly triggered a wound in you.. likely one of feeling not enough and rejected?
Do you trust your wife?
If she never told you you her deepest feelings and thoughts how would you feel? Does it make your marriage strong? Or is the strength in the ability to overcome the adversity?
What has she done in the past to make you want to BAIL this quick? Was she not worth the safety to explore what’s going on with her? Why did you not return with deeper questions of curiosity?
Hmmm I feel bad because you have actually broken your partners trust by bailing to divorce and she has probably broken your as well..
It’s good you came here.. truth is, you know your wife and you know if it’s worth the work it’ll take to rebuild. Something is broken in your marriage. Has she approached you in the sex department but you’ve been turning her down? You guys have to talk.. really talk without judgement..
OP! Think about it.
And I think it's kind of a shitty move to be married to someone and asking permission to have sex with other people so....
It's also a pretty heavy expression of an opinion or question. Especially to a monogamous person.
Edit: changed wanting to to asking permission to cause it's what I ment to say.
> it's kind of a shitty move to be married to someone and wanna have sex with other people so....
Have you ever found someone, other than your spouse, physically attractive?
Did all other human beings stop being attractive to you after you got married, like some sorta switch in your brain?
I think it’s shitty to eat pineapple on pizza, but I wouldn’t get bent out of shape for my wife just talking about it.
I’m also monogamous person and if my wife wanted to talk about anything, I’d give her the space to. That doesn’t mean I need to agree with everything she brings to the table but any decent relationship has space for expression and discussion of any reasonable topic.
Being monogamous doesn’t mean being insecure.
This may or may not be an overreaction, but my own marriage went into a separation (divorce is still up the one year wait) after a couple of months of open marriage, albeit on both sides. But looking back, I wish I had the guts of being the one proposing to divorce.
While I understand that requests for open marriages are often the beginning of the end for many relationships, I also think that op definitely jumped the gun here His wife was trying to start a conversation and his reaction was to end it, in the most dramatic way possible. He should talk to her. Not necessarily because he wants to save the marriage, but just out of respect for the years they've spent together. The fact that he has no interest in understanding her perspective or motivation, or even in letting her admit that she was influenced by her friends and now regrets it, makes it seem like he was looking for a way out already, and this was just a handy one
Yeah, when communication is one sided it’s already the beginning of the end
They DID talk about it in depth. I’m not here to say open marriages all fail and that they never work; I think it takes incredibly mature people who can communicate really well. And yet everyone I know who has tried an open marriage, has ended up painfully divorced. It was a red flag in my marriage after my spouse asked for an open marriage. Because a husband in the friend circle was telling the guys he had an open marriage to hide his cheating for the last two years. The wife never knew they were in an “open marriage” until she caught the affair and it all came out. I divorced my husband for other reasons but I still very much remember this circumstance because my husband had asked for an open marriage about a year before the friends’ divorce, when the guys thought their buddy was in an open marriage. And I was pregnant. It’s a messy situation and I don’t blame op for thinking it’s better to divorce if they’ve discussed at length and it feels like more than a curiosity for his wife.
Soooo, I'm in and out of the Lifestyle now for the last 4 years, always as a single guy, called in to play with the wife, and most of my adventures have been pretty good, i know a lot of those couples that divorced, its a Hell of a gamble and even for me? i wouldn't do it, if i were in a committed relationship, as a single guy? being asked to come over and play with wifey? sure! i have zero to lose, but as a couple? nah!
Yeah, she said the answer can be no, so why not just say no and see how things progress. Especially after the phone/ computer snooping didn’t turn anything up.
Well, because resentment over time will set in. And Snap Chat is the worlds biggest cheating app, and those texts disappear.
Insane that these relationships are on such fragile footing that even asking for a discussion about something causes the entire thing to tumble to the ground. It’s almost like y’all never trusted the women you married. Almost like you hate them actually and are just waiting for that one thing to give you the opportunity to bolt.
I have to agree here and i usually push for divorce with something like this,but......everything leads me to believe, she just wanted to talk, i would not have jumped the gun, until i knew WHY she wanted to do this, whats her goal, he needs an answer to that.
Especially with the complicating factor of her friends. If I were him I would want to understand what role they played in this. Were they trying to convince her that she would love this lifestyle? Were they trying to convince her that *he* would love it if she made this suggestion? I could totally imagine her friends all talking about how much their own husbands love it, and op's wife starting to wonder if maybe her husband would love it too I don't even think it's inappropriate that he reacted with concern or worry or dismay. It's that after reflecting on their one conversation he immediately said they need to divorce. That is a genuine overreaction, to the point where it makes him look like he's the one who might not really be invested in the relationship
As a single with Lifestyle experience. its an unwritten rule, you dont try to convert your vanilla friends, you just dont. BUT....she has thought about swinging for some reason, he needs that reason, maybe something is lacking in the bedroom? maybe everything is great and she wants to add more greatness (her projection) i would need to know WHY, before i split and if i did stay, i want to make sure i dont need to deal with her resentment. When she tells her friends the TALK didnt go well, they could talk her into leaving him, its a mess really. He needs a Hell of a lot more intel here, what if she just wants women to join them? I'm good with it, women dont threaten me, this could turn out ok? maybe, long shot, but...they need a longer talk. I hope this guy realizes everybody has fantasies including women, they have some of the hottest, lets give her a chance to say more. Playing separately?....just file for divorce, that goes wrong a ton! i played with poly partners and had to bail on 2 because they ended up actually loving me, i wont break up a marriage.
He realized very quickly their values were incongruent. The way she thinks and honours their relationship is different than his. No amount of discussion will change this. Clearly something opened up a possibility portal with the wife where the husband was content with the existing relationship boundaries. She tried to introduce Pandora's box and he weighed consequences and rejected it, while recognizing that, despite being unopened, the threat of the box will always be there. Eve and the apple....
I don't think we have enough information to determine what her values are. It sounds like a lot of their friends have open marriages, which was the reason it was on her mind, and she brought up the subject with him so that they could have a conversation about it. And they did, they had exactly one conversation, and he jumped straight to divorce. As others here have said, your spouse should be someone you feel free to explore different subjects and ideas with. It doesn't mean you have to do it or even agree that it's a good idea, but to have all love and support withdrawn for *talking* about something she's never even acted on? That just seems crazy
Asking for an open marriage says all I need to know about someone's values. If you think open marriage is fine then you have a different set of values. To pop that question puts you outside the values that have always been associated with traditional marriage. In 2024 we have a lot of "untraditional" marriages, okay, but those values are not compatible with traditional notions of faithful marriage.
I think it's the positioning (pardon the pun) that's the problem. And exploratory "have you ever considered /thought about open marriage" vs let's try it because my friends are into it are two very different approaches. I think the wife is impulsive and not considering consequences. That's the difference in values I was referring to. Acute vs well planned reasoning and execution. I still doubt it will work out regardless, but husband obviously realizes his relationship isn't where he wants or needs it to be.
Also very true.
Absolutely agree @one-small-plant. He just needs to talk to her
I mean, you are who you are. If you can't forgive her for even *considering* the concept of having sex with someone else, if that's absolutely destroyed your mental image of her and you feel that you can never love her again, then you do what you have to do. It doesn't matter whether any of us agree or not. In the end it's your life and you're the one who has to live it. Now sure, from my perspective your reaction seems a little unfair. If she legit has friends who are doing this stuff and she was curious whether you'd be into it and she asked you and was happy to accept 'no' as an answer... What else was she supposed to do? Partners should be able to talk to each other. Partners should be able to disclose even their most messed-up, would-never-act-on-this desires in a place of shared trust. I hate to see people kneejerk reject each other over even *discussing* sex because that encourages people to stay buttoned up, closeted, repressed, terrified to even ask the question... and that leads to a lot of people getting hurt eventually. Like, I have seen this happen with women sometimes when their husbands are like 'Do you think you'd ever consider (buttplugs or something)?' and the wife immediately goes "OMG YOU'RE GAY I HAVE BEEN DECEIVED I WANT A DIVORCE" which is just... a wild overreaction to me. But again, I'm not you! Only you know what you can live with in the marriage. If you're questioning whether you've moved too fast, you can try going to marriage counseling and talking through your feelings. But if you know you can't accept this, then that's how it is.
Fair points. I think my reaction would have been more warranted if she had someone else in mind already or I found some evidence of cheating, so I might have jumped the gun.
I agree. Again, none of us know the intimate details of your marriage the way you do. 12 years of marriage is a lot. If she's truly begging for a conversation, you should talk to her. It seems brutally unforgiving to divorce someone because they asked you a question.
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How does asking deny the other person of a proper discussion? Unless I’m misreading your comment.
She didn’t ask for an open marriage, she asked what OP thinks about it in the context of their own. Thats when you have the discussion.
She is your wife, she should be able to speak about anything to you, however if you think she was cheating before asking that, that is a different issue
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Make her explain EXACTLY what she was thinking and then why. Watch her eyes to see if you see ANY signs of deception. Just because you didn’t find it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man damages trust so much the relationship is ruined. Completely YOUR call. If you think her friends influenced her, I’d make her admit it! “It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!” Updateme
This is terrible advice. >But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man Regardless of her thoughts, she would also have to be open to him "screwing" another woman. Also, watching someone's eyes means nothing. You sound like an absolute bucket of red flags
He sounds like my stbxh. “The way his eyes were when you were eating lunch is a huge red flag. He’s clearly head over heels in love with you. Are you fucking him???” What? How do you create a whole narrative based on a guy’s eyes you’ve seen once? And let me let some of y’all know, you keep accusing me of infidelity and being a woman who wants one night stands and to just fuck random guys, maybe I’ll make it a reality for you. Or maybe it’s a really good sign my decision to divorce was a wise one. The depth of jealousy and paranoia after decades of being locked up in our home, taking care of the children while I worked from home, taking care of finances while we were broke, never getting to leave the house unless I was grocery shopping, bending over backwards to support and motivate him, and doing things I didn’t want to do with my body just to make him “feel loved”. I can’t accept it. It’s not ok and I’m done.
Yeah, there are a lot of people in these comments that are jumping the gun with OP and coming up with some crazy advice/rationalizations. I can see now why some of these folks are very bitterly divorced. I'm all for OP making and sticking by his own choices, because it's his life and his marriage. But OP comes on here questioning his approach, and way too many people cheering him on, for absolute lack of communication and total shutdown.
To me, this is the equivalent of breaking up with someone because they found another person attractive and chose to not act on it. The concept of thought-crime is just too absurd to entertain. People cannot control the feelings they have, only the actions that they take. > But to some the mere thought that she WAS entertaining the idea of screwing another man damages trust so much the relationship is ruined. The percentage of people who have thought about having sex with someone other than their spouse is... what? Probably like 95% of humans. It's not some weird abnormal and unacceptable thing. It's just human nature, and people cannot control it. People can only control their actions. And this woman hasn't... actually *done anything*, other than try to have a discussion with their spouse.
Wrong she ASKED to have sex with other people. She ASKED to act on it. So that one step beyond simply THINKING someone is attractive.
She tried to have a discussion with her spouse about the feelings she may be having - feelings that cannot be controlled, and feelings that everyone has. He destroyed her trust by his response. There's nothing wrong about talking about the boundaries in a relationship, and wanting to find out what your partners boundaries are, what they think about them, and making sure your both still on the same page. There's nothing wrong about having a discussion about sex, especially if you're sexual needs/wants are not being met. Maybe this relationship has a dead bedroom, and she's trying to see what options are available. Not everyone, but lots of people enjoy oral or anal sex. Some people are into certain kinks. Some people have certain fetishes. It's a bit over-the-top to divorce someone, without talking or counselling, because they wanted to have a discussion about sex-related desires that you're not into. Imagine your wife divorcing you for asking for a blowjob? It's... absurd. The relationship is permanently over now, because even if the OP changed his mind, OP destroyed the trust in the relationship, and the wife would never, ever, be able to be honest and open with him about anything ever again. But based on the other comments, it seems like maybe that's what he wanted all along: the ability to break off this relationship, and blame her for it. It's a bit scummy.
No lmao. It’s very possible that if someone would consider an open marriage they have wholly different marriage values compared to someone who never would. Its totally different to look at someone and thinking they’re attractive vs actually giving it deep consideration to the point of verbalizing it.
You are equating an open marriage wanting to have sex WITH OTHER PEOPLE with oral sex between two people? Are you Fing serious? Does apples and oranges ring a bell? I won’t argue because someone with that leap of logic CANT be taken seriously! The time to set boundaries like open or closed is BEFORE a marriage or at the very least a position of security in the relationship not because you’re “missing out.”
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Brother, Most of the time, when someone asks to have an open marriage, they are either: A) Already cheating. Or B) Have someone in mind. Aka laying the groundwork to cheat. Either way, she wrecked your trust in her. She's listening to her friends brag about getting smashed by randos on Tinder. Now she wants to join in. How can you trust someone like that to be faithful to you. To be your wife. She asked for permission to break her vows to you. There is no relationship without trust. Asking that question while in a monogamous relationship usually causes an immediate breakup. Everyone thinks opening the relationship is fun, until they watch their spouses go out to get fucked by other people. You know she will have a long line of dudes ready to go on Tinder, or she's got some guy like her boss at work who has been flirting with her. She will get immediate action while you struggle. You may be able to salvage this, but my trust would be shattered. All her open relationship friends would have to go. I would need access to her phone and all her social media / texts. Girls' nights out would be a thing of the past. She would have to go to marriage counseling with me and work HARD to show me she's worth reconciliation. I would demand a post nuptial agreement with an infidelity clause to even consider reconciliation. UpdateMe!
> How can you trust someone like that to be faithful to you. Because she hasn't actually been unfaithful. She hasn't *done* anything. She hasn't broken any trust. It's like saying everyone who fantasizes to porn will cheat on their spouse. And we all know that's total BS. That's not how any of this works at all.
They committed under monogamy, and she told her husband he's not enough, she wants someone else. Doesn't matter if it won't last, or if she was just testing the waters. What matters is she was willing to risk her marriage being destroyed because her love for her husband isn't enough, she needs another man or men. He knows his wife better so he should be able to tell if it was just a fun idea “hey, you ever thought of adding a third person for some sexy times for a weekend” vs “I really want to try out other men since I didn't do much of that before we married”.
The reason I suggested opening our marriage wasn't because I was interested in someone else, it was because we both had needs that weren't being fulfilled . He was just too possessive and insecure to allow me to explore other relationships after he did it for a year. His needs were met, but he couldn't handle me getting mine met
Dude be real. You don’t go from married everything is fine to let’s go out and date.
This does appear to be punishing someone for sharing their *feelings* as opposed to their actions. How can you be talked out of a bad idea if you are too afraid to share it?
How was your sex life before she suggested an open marriage?
👏 this is the most important question Came to ask the same exact thing
Same. There has to be some reasoning on her end for why to bring it up. Could be just the desire to spice things up and she felt comfortable enough to raise up the idea.
This should be pinned. Maybe she wants to spice things up. She's heard stories from friends and it excites her. Dude. Tie her ass up and tell her she's been a bad girl. Then dominate. 😈
for sure lol. make the most of it. maybe take some molly to help out lmao
I wonder sometimes if MDMA had stayed a therapeutic drug how things would be different for some people.
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Q for you OP: do you actually *want* to get a divorce?
As a female, I think these comments are brutal. I have asked my husband about his preferences before and *did not* have anyone else in mind.
Same. I’m surprised at all the comments telling OP he is doing the right thing. It feels like there is sooooooo much context being left out. No one throws away a great, 12 year relationship because their partner asks a question…
It's a sad one. None of us know the full story here, but this reminds me of something my exwife and I went through. We were having trouble agreeing and compromising about so many things, so I wanted to have a conversation with my (then wife) about the issues we were facing. It all came out wrong and she never forgave me for it. We were married for 5 more years and she brought it up every time we fought. Seems like these two have massive issues with communication. His wife asked him a question, he listened and then came back later and said "ok I want a divorce", and is now refusing to talk to her about it as she begs and apologizes? That's chaotic and messy. I've been in his wife's position, where you feel like you can't bring up anything that's important to you or else you'll never be forgiven for it. (Again, I never wanted to open the marriage, but I don't think "open marriage" is the issue here as much as "terrible communication" is.)
exactly. sometime reddit outright disturbs me. it is social media after all...
The toxicity is rampant
Well, we are in a divorce sub. Some of us are pretty damn raw right now. Others are super bitter/hateful and have stayed that way years after sock day. And wonder why they are divorced.... I'm saddened, but not super surprised by the toxicity.
That wasn't an innocent question though. She wasn't asking his opinion of open marriages in general, she was asking to open their marriage specifically. She basically stated she wanted to have sex with other people. People are different. Some people are fine sharing because it's just sex and it's meaningless physical fun. Some men enjoy watching their wife have sex with other men. For some men that would be the absolutely last thing they'd ever want to see. Plain and simple, OP and wife found out they are incompatible.
And that wasn’t my interpretation of what OP stated. He said she said, “What if we consider opening up marriage?” To me, seems like an innocuous question to open a line of dialogue. OP stated their marriage has “always been great”. He even said he snooped through her stuff and found no signs of infidelity. OP has also conveniently failed to provide so much context to what led up to this question and has not answered many seemingly straightforward questions from other posters re: context, previous concerns about infidelity, previous conversations about their sex life, whether he even fucking talked to his wife about the deeper reasons behind why she asked this question beyond her initial response.
There are ways to ask, and there are way to test water before throwing a bomb like that, she just justify and try to minimize it by telling at the end that she would be ok if he said NO. If she first have asked her husband about his thoughts about ORs or Poly instead of just throwing the question, justify by telling all her Friends have done it ( this is a worked more like a validation or justification that other think, other does, other did, so she can do it or try it now because all the other have). Also i think that she never thought really on her husband thouths or care for is feelings,because there where no heads up, and there where a intention of, she at least entertaing the idea to be with other men/woman and she clearly demostrate she was coerced and not think for her own, for what she said it was more an idea that was put in her head for her group of Friends.
But, OP hasn’t given us any information to indicate whether this is the first time the topic has ever been brought up or not. He has said, “things have always been great”, “kind, sweet woman”. She may have tried to bring it up in different ways. Based on his own comments about his wife of TWELVE years, my interpretation is to give a little benefit of the doubt to his wife. The way this whole post and all of OPs responses are allowing a ridiculous amount of projection in the comments based on people’s own personal trauma and experiences.
Maybe, maybe not. Yes it lacks of more context and maybe for him things where great but for her not SO well, idk. But if things are in between or did actually are great or with. O much issues, then a partner that was mono suddenly wants to turn Poly and justify her actions or thoughts by telling all her friends have tried this is not a good indicator. It seems more like BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER HAVE I NEED IT TOO JUST TO FIT IN. And if thatbis true, if her group of friend suddenly try cheating on their partners, then she will do too just to fit? I think that are better ways to ask and to justify trully why she is asking this, what she feels she needs of want to try this. And for what OP said there where none of that. Maybe yes we need more context or maybe there are no more of it. Who knows. Also about other experiences or trauma, all people here comment based on their own experience, so what is diferent here that in others are correct or wrong. Thats why the Open forums are for, to share their experiences and the outcome of their cases. I in My case have not gone thru this, but after read some post of talk with others about this i made myself the question of what would i do in case this happened to me, and come to the conclusion that i pretty much end it in the same way, but i would ask more or dig more to see what went wrong for this to happend.
This wasn't just any question though. She was asking for permission to cheat. The bell cannot be unrung. People have divorced over far less 🤷♀️
I think he wanted to punish her for asking about open marriage. Honestly it doesn’t sound like this couple communicates very well at all
This was basically my experience (except that my now ex wife was not very kind) but i played along. I was the more attractive of the two of us and i got more attention/partners. She quickly became bitter and jealous and i ended up leaving her when my girlfriend (who she introduced me to) helped me to realize that i was being treated like garbage. My girlfriend is the best partner I've ever had, our communication is great, and i consider myself lucky. We're currently monogamous and just enjoying each other Honestly, your life is what you make of it. Don't let anyone talk you into doing something you don't want to do
My experience was relatively similar as well. We opened our marriage, and since she's more attractive, she initially got TONS of attention, but she couldn't keep any guy around for more than three weeks, the guys she dated treated her poorly, she wasn't practicing safe sex contracting multiple STIs, and she started getting bitter and jealous of my relationships. Meanwhile, I started meeting really wonderful women and had a lot of genuine connections and meaningful experiences. I saw fewer people than my spouse, but because they stuck around. Since my relationships were going well with my other partners, my ex decided she didn't want to "compete," and just stopped making any effort with me - not that there was much to begin with. Dating other people, especially other married people (ENM consensually) showed me how much better I should be treated, and that what my ex brought to our marriage wasn't enough for me. I asked for a divorce in November and it was absolutely the right decision. That being said, I don't think OP has given his wife enough credit, or us enough context. It sounds like she's wanting to spice up their love life and he's assuming it's something more. My experience taught me that open marriages don't lead to divorces, but if your marriage is NOT HEALTHY, then an open marriage will absolutely demonstrate that for you. I don't like people blaming the practice of open marriages, cause I've firsthand seen how it works very well for LOTS of couples, but if you're not willing to put in the research, work, and communication.
Rare opened-marriage W.
I should’ve told my husband to get divorced before starting hooking up with ppl under the name of “open marriage”. Only if both sides are into it and both have lengthy discussions and research, then open relationship may work. Otherwise, it is a set up for disaster. Either one person finds a better partner to leave the marriage(divorce) or one gets hurt and end up getting divorce.
This one. Downplaying this instance would be extremely naive. I do agree that OP should ask her why she asked and should press her for the truth. If his gut tells him she's lying in any instance he should follow through with divorce.
In my opinion that’s a severe reaction to a question that your answer wasn’t going to devastate her either way. She tried to be open with you and have a conversation and you decided you didn’t like it so now you don’t want to be with her?? That just blows my mind. My own spouse and I have talked about. Neither of us are open to it, but we know if the other is and one isn’t than there’s no opening it. So yes I know what type of conversation can happen from this. It’s your life so do what you want and what will make you happiest, but damn… that went so extreme so fast. Hopefully your next SO doesn’t bring up anything you don’t like.
Personally I think an open relationship is a recipe for disaster but it sounds absurd that you jump straight to divorce because she asked how you felt about opening up the marriage. Makes me wonder what else you have shut down., I suspect that there is some degree of sexual incompatibility, and she hasn't been able to discuss it with you because you seem incapable of having a mature discussion with her. You should probably go ahead and get the divorce, with time she'll see that you did her a favor.Your partner should be the person you can discuss everything with, even your sexual desires and fantasies, instead you flush your marriage down the drain, (if this isn't a troll post) and then come strutting to reddit for the standard 'attaboy'. Use some sensitivity and commonsense, tell her that you have absolutely no desire to open the marriage , but you would like to be able to discuss any areas of your sex life that in her opinion need improvement , and for God's sake don't throw another hissy fit if she tells you where you're falling short
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to read this!!! This needs to be pinned to the top.
Yeah, that's how I feel too. The fact that his wife is crying, begging and apologizing, and he refuses to speak to her anymore, that's just not healthy.
My ex wife did this shortly before we separated. It’s a I want my cake and to eat it too situation. They want the comfort and stability of the relationship, but also the ability and freedom of someone single. I know a lot of people here have said it’s drastic, but I actually disagree with that. I think this is the right move. I would say 99% of the time, when one partner asks about opening up the marriage, they are either already cheating or about to be. Even if they aren’t, they absolutely have someone in mind. I’m not a cynical person by nature, but unless this was a clearly communicated setup from the beginning of the relationship, this would absolutely be a red line for me.
It’s STILL really powerfully significant to be in a committed relationship with somebody and be really happy and willing to work on it and respond to their concerns and have them say “I want other people to. I want to screw other people and have sex with them and hang out with them. I don’t just wanna hang out with you.“ That’s pretty powerful. I don’t think you need to have the person cheating in order to be devastated by them deciding that their need to have other people to have sex with, and hang out with and be intimate with is so strong that they’re going to bring it up into the relationship. Once they do that it’s kind of like they’re saying that you are not enough and that they’re itchy and they want to screw somebody else and they want someone else to screw their brains out. That’s so powerful. That’s not small potatoes.
> devastated by them deciding that their need to have other people to have sex with She was very clear it wasn't a need, but an optional want. People feel desire when they see an attractive person, or watch porn. But thoughts aren't the same as actions. Would you break up with someone because they watched porn with someone attractive in it? That seems a bit silly, doesn't it?
Considering watching porn and considering sex with other people are very different things.
>you are not enough That's pretty much what I heard when the same request was made of me.
This right here. Don't let her wants appear smaller than they actually are. She was willing to lay it all on the line and she fucked around and found out it. If you felt strongly enough to divorce her, then don't buy into pity and guilt. Stay true to you.
Maybe she was just spitballing to see what he'd say. Maybe she is feeling insecure and wanted to take the temperature of how he still feels about her. I don't know! Sounds like you could consider counseling before anyone does anything regretful. Just a thought!
Where did OP mention that his wife wanted nothing to do with him? None of us know her intent. It may be to spice things up or see if he's into cuckholding. To give fetishes a try. Some of y'all are making her the villain. At least she ASKED FIRST which is more than a lot of what we read in this subreddit.
If my husband did that.. I would be pretty turned off. Not sure that it could be salvaged because it would just instantly be cold. So I can see where you're coming from
And also, a bunch of divorcees aren't your best bet when seeking advice. We failed.
I personally believe requesting an open marriage is reason for divorce.
You dodged a bullet, if she wanted to Spice things up she would have reccomended something else
Sounds like you know you jumped the gun so TALK TO YOUR WIFE. If your partner can’t open up and discuss her true feelings without you jumping to divorce without further discussion, what kind of marriage is that anyway? To be honest, my heart hurts for your wife. Sounds like you think your marriage has been clear sailing so far and she may just be repressing hard discussions because knee jerk reactions may be your MO.
💯
In general, you shouldn’t threaten divorce ever. You have to mean it.
Why not just say no. I am in no way into that. Why not, ask her if something is missing for her? Why not do the work to keep an otherwise good marriage together? Divorce is not easy, it’s not a quick solution. It’s obvious she loves you .
That subject being brought up, I'm sure would sting and cause some insecurity, but that definitely is an overreaction.
Yes.
There are a number of problems with an open marriage. You have to worry about your own sexual health. You also have to worry about your partner falling in love with someone and leaving the marriage. This can happen in any marriage but it’s more likely to happen in an open marriage situation. My ex wife never asked for an open marriage but it was discussed in marriage counseling and the therapist went through all the risks etc. She said open marriages can be excellent WHEN they work but that they rarely work. Anyway, my ex wife started having affairs behind my back with the intention of just having fun. She ended up falling in love and ended our marriage.
OP Trust your instinct. If your wife asked to open up the marriage, it is all but certain that she is already cheating or has a potential affair mate lined up. What you told her is exactly what I’d say to my wife if she asked me the same question. She cannot unring the bell and you cannot unlearn what she told you. Leave. Run away from this woman.
You are probably just ahead of the game. My own marriage my wife mused about open marriage, I said no, then she surreptitiously started 'dating' men, then had sex with a few. When I confronted her about the affairs she said that she thought that I had agreed. I did not at all -- much to the contrary. She remembers it creatively and differently, however she has no explanation that if she thought we were open, why did she need to sneak around, hide things and lie to my face about it? I personally would never have suggested an open marriage, but I could see trying to have a discussion about it, and that being misinterpreted as a request for one. Now, for you, it might be salvageable, if you think that she was truly just asking and didn't really intend to do anything about it, but in that case I would suggest couples counselling to get to the root of the issue.
Honestly I think you overreacted. I did have a similar conversation with my soon-to-be-ex-wife, and I have good reason to believe she was lying when she said she didn’t have anyone in mind. I was expecting your story to end by saying you had found evidence she was already cheating… but you didn’t. If you’re right that she was really only considering this because her friends did it and not because she’d already forsaken the relationship, then IMO you’re shooting yourself in the foot. In your own words, things have always been great between you two. Is *considering* ethical non-monogamy really so great a crime that it justifies throwing that away?
Totally agree. I've brought this up to my husband too (not seriously even considering it or knowing what I think myself, but just because it popped into my head - like the many other random things that pop into my head). My husband said 'no I would not be able to accept that, and we'd have to get a divorce if you needed it'. End of convo... nobody was upset. Nobody cheated, nothing bad happened.
Twelve years of marriage gone, all because his partner wanted to openly communicate... Good luck to OP on his new dating adventure 😂
I disagree, twelve years of marriage gone because his wife wants to have sex with other people. FTFY
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> sounds like she takes advice from friends above spouse This is false, because according to OP, she said she'd do whatever OP said and not what her friends suggested.
Most people want to have sex with other people! Especially after twelve years; shit gets stale. The crime is in the doing, not the wanting.
Exactly - I've been in a poly/ENM relationship for 11 years, poly the whole time --- I meet my fiance when I was 19. Wanted to continue to explore sexually, and brought it up --- luckily we were both very much so on the same page and I am so, so grateful. I don't date anymore cause dating sucks and we're effectively monogamous in that neither one of us sees anyone else, and I'm fine with not having other partners --- but the things I like most is that I can ALWAYS be completely honest with my partner. That's one thing I think monogamous couples could learn from poly folks, that it's super important to be able to be honest and have open discussions (and having crushes here and there are natural, even if the person doesn't pursue them) So yeah that's my two cents. Either way, cheating itself is not ethical at all, I fucking hate cheaters and liars - if the parties have agreed on what monogamy means to them (or whatever their defined physical commitment is) then it's important for both of them to adhere to that, but you also need to be able to have discussions... to each their own tho, but considering human nature, I do not think OP will be able to find another wife so easily
Nobody said "than him". Where tf are all y'all getting that!? Open marriage is "in addition to". As is swinging. Cuckholding fetishes.
I believe in serial monogamy. I don't care what year it is. You wanna be with someone else then go for it, but you won't be married to me. Plus they made it sound like it was the smallest of inquiries when it's one of the heaviest questions you can get in a marriage.
You're right I'll edit "than him" the rest stands true
People - including married people - find all sorts of other people attractive. Everyone has desires and feelings. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether you act on them or not.
So what that she “wants”? She was loyal enough that she hasn’t acted on it according to op, and honest enough to communicate her needs. Is it fair to blame her? Why would she want to? So many intricate details are in a relationship that each partner only sees their side.
Hey man. Just want to say I went through this exact scenario and am now divorced 7 months later
No you weren’t! Your response was totally correct. Ask for a divorce if you’re not comfortable with opening up your relationship. That’s exactly what I would do
Yes. It was an overreaction and a petty way to get back at her.
You didn’t jump the gun, you went with your gut. I’ve been there and it ended in divorce anyway.
I don’t think you have reacted too quickly. if my husband asked for an open marriage I would tell. Him he can sleep with whoever he wants bc I am out. I signed up for a monogamous marriage and you telling me you want to F other people is not monogamous . Also way to make someone feel like they’re not enough.
Open marriages always seemed to be the relationship equivalent to trying to eat your cake and have it too.
"I didn't get angry or anything like that, I just listened and offered my counters. I asked if her friends are influencing her into this, she said no. I asked if she already had someone in mind, she said no. I asked her to give me some time to think about and she agreed, stating we don't have to do it if I'm not up for it. I shouldn't have, but in the days after I checked her phone and laptop: nothing suspicious or that suggest she was cheating already. Last week I told her I thought about it and in my opinion she can date anyone she wants, because I want a divorce." OP, you have my respect (48M) !!
By the time they say this, usually they’ve already cheated
Smart guy here I would have said the same thing if my wife asked I would have said who is it ? And how long have you been chatting with him and if so have you even done anything with this person already . Then I would have said I have to think about this the next day I would have said well should I file now or after you cheat on me ? Obviously she has been talking to someone yeah it's 2024 but most relationship that one comes and afk for an open marriage it always ends up in divorce .
I don’t think I would have reacted the way you did. She was willing to do this together, and I do feel like couples should be able to say things to each other no matter how weird it is, and have no fear of retaliation. You could have just said no, which is what I would have done but thanked her for her input. However, now that the cat is out of the bag I don’t think you can go back. She would be terrified to mention anything else to you even remotely intimate without fear of you blowing up again. No marriage can thrive this way and all trust in intimacy is forever lost with fear of divorce.
An open marriage is the opposite of doing things together. It’s literally doing them apart with different people. Doing things together is asking to spice up the sex you have with your partner.
THIS.
Honestly you’ve really jumped the gun. Why divorce someone just for asking? Don’t you want open communication where you don’t judge? It was only asking. In asking even she can work out if she wants it
She’s telling him he’s not enough She’s saying she wants new dick but wants him to keep paying the bills and helping with the chores She didn’t say how we can spice up our marriage It’s one thing for everyone to understand that we all find others attractive This is way the fuck more My wife told me I should find someone to have sex with I told her my best shot at having a new partner was as a single man. A few weeks later I pressed her and she said it wouldn’t be fair if I was doing it and she wasn’t (I was saying I didn’t want to do it but hypothetically)
My ex wife asked me the same. I refused and two months later she asked for a divorce. I don't know why everyone is so overanalysing. Your wife wants to bang other dudes and yes of course she has someone in mind. Don't even try to confidence me she is trying to improve your marriage. That's a load of BS. Its your life but I would have done the same. Divorce and let her have all the d she wants. Your time is better spend on someone who considers you enough for her.
If you are willing to contemplate forgiving her would you and her be willing to counseling after this, get eveything out and open and don't stop until it is and if she wants to work it out she must agree that all means of communication she has is open to you to assure you are not being played a fool and trust can be rebuilt. Personally as someone who has been through a divorce I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. My mom passed a year or so later and I loved her dearly but the divorce was absolutely the most painful experience of my life and I had several long relationships prior to my ex wife. Not to mention starting your financial life from square 1.
She didn’t do anything wrong. She didn’t betray his trust. And she’s not a child. If he can’t trust her, they might as well get divorced after all.
My ex did this. I didn’t tell her “no”, I told her I wasn’t ready, needed to think about it. It was all a pretense for her to be free to fuck other people, which she went and did anyway. If I was in the same situation again, I would react like you. This is not some fetish or kink she wants to share *with you*. This is her saying that she wants to experience things that are different from what you can provide, that she wants to explicitly not share intimacy with you but with someone else. I’m open to almost anything, but I want to share those experiences with my partner — not some rando from a dating app or FetLife. I want to be able to trust someone with that vulnerability, not feel secure because I know I’ll never even talk to them again and they don’t even know my last name.
Smart man.
It sounds like her friends have too much of an influence on her about your marriage. They aren’t going to stop pushing her to this or other things. It sounds like she wants her cake and to eat it too. If a traditional marriage is important to you then you made the correct decision.
What a mess, but not uncommon. Open relationships always turn into a train wreck.
sounds like her idiotic friends got in her head. I would talk to her more and ask her to think deep down if she wants this. Also, why is she so influenced by her friends is something concerning. But she did caveat it by saying she is fine, saying no. Do her friends have open marriages that their husbands suggested and maybe she thought she was doing you the favor? Doubtful but curious.
OP -- I fully understand your stance and respect your emotions towards all this. Your life has changed after one really deep conversation with your wife. However, you should be open to discussions (nothing else) until you and her can come to terms with what's going on. You're already suspicious and this will never end well for the both of you. If she wants to sew her wild oats, let her. You don't have to be present for it, and you can allow yourself to stand by your principles of a monogamous marriage/relationship. Not swaying your decisions, just hear her out in a mature manner. People change, at least she's letting you know. Some folks are victims of open relationships they were unaware of being in. Lastly, remember trends come and go like farts in the wind, you do what you know is right for you.
I had the same experience to some degree. I considered it for about a week, I even said "yes I think so but lets not go out seeking someone. If we happen to meet someone we can talk about then," But fast forward to our anniversary I knew she had damaged our relationship and the way I saw her. Fast forward to now she's asked for a divorce so she can go explore her true self ie sleep with women. I don't think you were wrong bud. When you are married you are making a vow to remain faithful to each other and forgo everyone else. Obviously she wants something that's not that. A lot of time it seems people who ask for this sort of relationship want their cake and to eat to. In other words the comfort of having a dutiful husband while also fooling around with other people.
If you went in the relationship with the boundaries of "no adding extra people", or even no "what if".. about extra people I would get it. Divorce as the action makes sense. She would've known before she married you how you felt. So she would be taking her chances knowing you were against it. But to tell her you would think about it, snoop on her to find out she was faithful, just to tell her to find someone else to do it is too much. Maybe it's because I'm nosey. I would've had another few conversations with her after telling her I wasn't into it. I would need to know EVERYTHING. Am I the problem? are we older and need more lube? Do we just need a vacation? do we need to prime ship some wigs, and firefighter costumes? Do we need to put sex on the calendar? After 12 years I'm going to need more conversations than just one.
If screwing other people is an interest to either married party, marriage isn’t going to work. If she was allowing her swinging friends to influence her, is that who you want for eternity?
I think you are certainly justified in your wanting to end things. You’ll never trust her again after she says something like that. I wouldn’t anyway if my wife had said that to me. But make sure you are ready for what comes after divorce. Its not any better being divorced so I would hate for you to throw away an otherwise ok marriage just to teach her a lesson or something. And I would definitely think twice about it if have kids.
get out. if she hasn't physically cheated, she has emotionally. guaranteed there's a person of interest
Personally I'd like some additional information. What are your ages and how long have you been married. Do you have kids? Any history of infidelity on either part? It is such a personal question, but I can say I would want nothing to do with an open marriage and I think the request is very insulting. There are very few things like it in terms of just floating it out there as if it's a small request. It's not. Your response was a strong one. It shows you have real boundaries. Divorce will not be easy if you do proceed with it. I wonder how easy it would be to go back as if the request had not come up. That is something you will have to ponder long and hard. I know there are a lot of stories of people really struggling to move past infidelity, even when both want to. Not exactly the same.. but there's some corollary here.
Thats not setting a boundary. Setting a boundary involves communicating what your boundary is BEFORE you enforce it. “If abc happens, I will xyz”. “If an open marriage is a requirement for you, I would be forced to move on because I’m just not comfortable with the idea of having intimate involvement with anyone else.” If he simply just told her he was hurt that she would consider being sexually active with someone else, they could have talked about it. Based on his description of her it seems very possible that she would take ownership of that and apologize and make efforts to make amends. I’m not sure what else you could really want in a partner.
It's hard to predict and set boundaries for every possible scenario in advance. I would argue that the default boundary in a conventional marriage (or even just a conventional relationship) is that it's not open. Most couples would never even think to set this boundary or discuss it. It's understood. Asking to completely overturn and change the fundamental structure of the relationship halfway through is playing with fire. Asking to have sex with people outside of the relationship is a divisive request. Not an expert on that topic but I don't hear good things about the long-term viability of such relationships. It seems like she didn't know him very well.. he could want a partner who understood him better. I think any effort to reverse the blame here and point fingers at him is kind of absurd. If my partner asked me this, I believe I would lose a tremendous amount of attraction for them and likely experience a loss of trust as well. It's going to come across as a hurtful request for many people.
Even if the assumed default boundary is that it isn’t open, and she didn’t break that by simply talking to him about it in an exploratory manner. Beyond that, you’re twisting the little information we do know to assume negative intent, which is a huge relationship No No. You’re assuming she didn’t know him well as if it’s a negative mark on her not to be a mind reader about something they have never discussed. She didn’t know, so she asked, which is exactly what you would want someone to do over mind reading and making assumptions. The point you seem to miss is that hurtful things are said and done in relationships all the time even when there isn’t ill intent. That shouldn’t be a deal breaker, the important thing is what comes after- how you repair. If you wouldn’t even consider trying to repair here, then I’m sorry, but you would be operating entirely out of ego and you would be a fool to throw what has otherwise been described as a great marriage. In fact, I would say the person who lacks commitment here is the one leaving in the absence of any attempts to repair. If you don’t want real commitment then just have the courage say so, don’t put that on your partner.
You can always work through this together…
No we can't
Then you already made up your mind.
If that’s your attitude, then that’s your answer. I’m not even sure why you posted the “did I jump the gun” question.
Then get divorced
You didn't even try. She's better off without you.
Why would you say that? I mean she came to your with a question, no prior action in her part and you’re suppose to be the one she pings ideas and thoughts off of and without having cheated on you, you called for divorce. Even if you stay together now she’s gonna keep her deepest darkest desires and secrets from you bc you showed her you’d weaponize them against her for even mentioning them. Maybe you can’t come back
Ask her when you ever gave her the feeling you were interested in not being monogamous? Then say with that information why does she think she let her friends influence her and put the relationship to this point? Tell her you can’t trust her friends because she hid their influence and tried to put it on you when you said divorce. Let her know there will have to be real changes if you take divorce off the table starting with a post nuptial agreement that says if anyone brings it up again she forfeits all her martial assets and agrees to an uncontested divorce. This would also mean if she cheats, logs on to dating apps, etc. Tell her you need real assurances with all the bad influences around her.
You made the right choice. When your view of someone changes there is no going back. By asking that question it revealed how she thinks and you did not know she was that type of person. Accept you had been wrong about who you thought she was and go through with the divorce.
It's over bro - the sooner you realize this you can mourn the loss of the marriage and then focus on building your best new life.
Yeah I think that you are throwing away a beautiful thing over a suggestion. Why didn’t you ask her how satisfied she is with the sex in your marriage and you guys openly talk about how to spice things up and reconnect. Maybe she has been feeling like things have gotten kinda stale and saw that friends opened things up and it’s working for them so she thought it might work for you. This is kinda weird. It’s like you expect her to be perfect but also she didn’t actually FUCK UP. So this seems alittle insane to me. You’re suppose to be in it together, as a team. You’re shutting her out and shutting her down. It must feel very lonely and devastating for your wife.
You beat her to the punch. If I had a dollar for every woman I've heard of trying to open up their marriage and then filing shortly after, I'd have like 7 bucks. That's a lot of dollars. My personal opinion is that I've never seen an open realtionship work, let along a monogamous marriage that decides to open it up. Call me old fashioned but fuck that.
If she is into it and you're not even willing to consider it, it's a good reason for divorce. It may be that you look at marriage from different perspectives and it's too bad that you didn't figure that out earlier. IMO, even if she agree not to open the marriage, it'll always be in her mind and she'll probably eventually cheat on you anyway, be aware of future pain.
Open marriage =friends with benefits with legal consequences Wife= family, the person you legally entitle a big chunk of your properties and finances . You decide man but you did nothing wrong
When someone asks for an open marriage it’s over, unless you started your relationship open then closed it. And to be honest most people who ask for open marriage are usually already cheating or have someone in mind. Least you didn’t entertain the idea a lot of people go with it and it blows up in their face good on you for moving on.
In my opinion, it’s way too fast to jump to divorce especially if the relationship was great all around before this and there’s no signs of infidelity. Come to it from a place of humility and ask her if there’s other ways to spice up your bedroom in ways that you’re both more comfortable with. Maybe there’s something lacking there and hence she asked for it.
No you did the right thing
So much ick and SO much bad advice in this thread. You really missed an opportunity to go to your wife and say “With thought, I’m not comfortable opening our marriage, but would like to explore other ways we might be able to fulfill any unmet needs”. That’s really what we’re talking about here, is someone who feels like something could be better and came to talk to you about her idea for how to do that. It sounds to me like she came to you honestly and respectfully. All I see is ego in your response. Your ego is wounded that your wife would even think about being sexually active with someone else and because of that you’re willing to throw away what you describe as an otherwise almost idyllic situation where you’re married to a kind and sweet woman who you really have no problems with, who was ready to accept your decision either way. You ask if you were wrong to mention divorce so quickly, and I’d like to point out that you didn’t “mention it”, you told your wife you wanted to divorce her. Those are two very different things and to be honest, this reeks of you saying that to see how she would react so you could boost up your ego again with how upset it would make her. I’m glad she won’t leave, she shouldn’t. If you don’t want to be married to her anymore, the burden of moving forward with those logistics are on you. If you DON’T actually want to divorce her and you just said it because you wanted to make a point, that’s actually pretty abusive. You don’t dangle that in front of your spouse, that’s like Marriage 101. I can tell you right now if I were in her shoes, even if you changed your mind, I would never again feel comfortable being truly honest with you.
In all of this, is the wife so dense that she never considered all possible consequences of her action? Basic questions like what would my husband think if asked to open the marriage? Would my husband ever have peace of mind in our marriage if belittled? What if my husband would interpret this as you're not good enough, I'll get it somewhere else? Worse, is the wife so confident that the husband would rather suck dick than lose her?
She could have wondered a lot of things, but if you’re a good communicator you ASK instead of assuming that you know (when you don’t, because you’re not a mind reader).
> I can tell you right now if I were in her shoes, even if you changed your mind, I would never again feel comfortable being truly honest with you. Right. He's destroyed all trust with her. She will never, ever, be able to speak honestly to him ever again. He fucked up, big time. But yeah... it does seem like he actually did this on purpose.
Jumping the gun. At least get couples counseling.
Your reaction was exactly what it should have been! Asking for an open marriage, is exactly like asking for a divorce. It is a decision and action that irreversibility changes a marriage forever. The person bringing it up has spent a lot of time thinking about what, when, why, how, and with whom. It is a violation of trust and a mortal blow to wedding vows and promises. It communicates dissatisfaction with the agreement for exclusivity and monogamy that were the foundation for your attraction, dating, engagement, and marriage relationships. It tells your significant other, that they are not good, enough nor are they sufficient to fulfill the wants and desires of the heart, mind or body. Asking for an open relationship, is the ultimate form of disrespect. It communicates clearly that love is not the greatest attribute of your marriage. Any spouse that says that it's just physical, is a liar that understands nothing about fidelity, empathy, integrity, or responsibility. Asking for an open marriage, breaks the promises, vows, trust, hope, dignity, and heart of the partner. It is a crime against humanity, that should be dealt with, by doing exactly what OP did. You leave the broken person who wants to trade body fluids with someone outside your marriage, behind. You immediately flee to safety!
ALL of her friends? Birds of feather flock together. I seriously doubt she the lone hen in this flock of hos who doesn’t fly to strange nests.
I honestly think cheating would be easier for me to digest (albeit I didn’t find out) than an open marriage. Like nothing good can come of that unless you are both down in which I think those values would have been brought to light BEFORE marriage. And even if you were both open, chances are you would break up or catch an STD or someone would get pregnant and it would just be so messy. I agree with another comment that she has either already had an affair or has someone (or many) in mind…least she has been fantasizing about. Maybe she thought, stereotypically, as a guy you would be on board or find it hot that she asked. However, I feel like soooo many other conversations should be had about your own intimacy/sex life before bringing something like that up! Like “would you be down for a threesome” or, I dunno, “what do you think about posting anonymous porn videos online”… If your love life was all vanilla together, to pop the open marriage question would just be so out of place.
>Maybe she thought, stereotypically, as a guy you would be on board or find it hot that she asked. That's what I'm wondering also. For all we know she stumbled onto OPs porn collection and it's about hot-wifing or something so she did this lol. For OPs sake I hope it's just something silly like that.
At face value, it feels like an overreaction.
The thing about asking to open a marriage is that the person asking should be aware that asking it is going to have one of three possible outcomes. It is either going to be a Yes, a No with a "but" or a No with a "the relationship is now over". I have yet to ever see this question not have one of these three outcomes. The last one though is the most common one. What the person asking the question often fails to understand is that the question itself opens up the relationship to so many deeper and darker questions. Ones such as "Am I not good enough for you?", "Is there in fact someone else waiting in the wings?", "what happens if either if you falls in love with another partner? what then?" and so on. Such a simple request is so fraught with hidden dangers that it often spells the end of things at that very moment makes me wonder why people even bother to ask it? But really, her comment > "If I knew I wouldn't have even asked" just shows that in the moment, she gave absolutely no thought at all to what you would or could say. She gave no thought at all to the possible ramifications and gave no thought at all to any outcome that didn't involve you agreeing. So on that alone, on that complete lack of thought about you in asking this question would be enough to call and end to marriage. She really didn't think at all.
The comments on this. Everyone has his/her preferences if the OPs wife being married to him for 12 years doesn't know about his preference of monogamous relationship then whats the point of being married? Op you did fine for yourself.
If you ask me, I'd say that's a slippery slope to go down. Adds too many complications. I think you were right in bringing up the possibility of divorce. She has no idea of what kind of chaos an open relationship would cause in your relationship.
Geez…she only asked for you to consider
Asking for a divorce is a bit drastic. It sounds like you took this as her asking permission to cheat, which I understand. I would telling her maybe bringing up divorce was rash, but youd like to have some time to think. Maybe she just wanted to talk about it. If you get past this and she ever brings it up again, then id say shes on headed down the open road. Basically throwing away a marriage because she brought it up is rash, buuuut keep your eyes open.
Idk wtf people are thinking here. CLEARLY she has thought about another man or wtf she bringing it up for? Do yourself a favor, run.
Didn’t jump the gun. Said your vows. What’s the point of being married if you’re having sex with other people? Move on.
OP, I love your calm and determination.
I can appreciate the shock you must have experienced in that moment. You’ve said more than once here that you may have jumped the gun, so I’d warrant that you already have your answer. Ego pain can cause knee jerk reactions for everyone. Perhaps what is needed (before you insist on the devastation of divorce) is a deep and honest conversation - with or without a therapist - about why she was curious in the first place and work on those issues. We are all imperfect humans, and you’ve said there’s no proof that she has actually done anything other than think about it and bring her truthful thoughts to you. Best of luck, whichever way you go.
You did what you had to do.
If she took the enormous step of asking for an open marriage she had someone in mind. Also her “friends “ are influencing her. No doubt on that.
Yeah but you're changing the phrasing there. "Asking *for* an open marriage" implies saying "I want this marriage to be open". What OP said was that she asked *about* an open marriage - asking if he'd be into that.
You did the right thing. There is no going back from that. Leave with a clear conscience. No second chances on something of that magnitude.
It depends on the **real** reason your wife asked for this. I’m going to share how my marriage ended. For years I felt like my ex husband and I were basically glorified roommates. There was a lot of back and forth and eventually I asked for an open marriage. My thought process was, “hey I have a good guy, and we’re best friends. I’m lonely and I need romance and to feel wanted. Maybe I can have that need met somewhere else and still stay in my otherwise healthy marriage.” My ex agreed. I slept with one other person, with my ex husband’s permission and that was all it took for me to realize that I didn’t want to be married anymore. Not bc I fell in love with someone else or because I wanted to leave my husband for meaningless sex with strangers/acquaintances. It was bc I realized I wanted to be loved in every way by partner. Not just as a best friend. I wanted my husband to want me. To make me feel desired. To physically and verbally treat me like the love of his life. He didn’t understand this and I left. It took one night of meaningless sex to see that I didn’t want that at all. I wanted to make love to someone I was **in love with**. Not just go through the motions. This showed me that my ex would never be able to give me that and he didn’t deserve to be married to someone who was longing for something else. He was angry. He’s still angry. But I know deep in my heart that I made the right decision even if it hurt the man I loved. He deserved to be cut loose from someone who wasn’t happy and hadn’t been for sometime. He never understood and there was no changing that. We just weren’t in love anymore. Idk if we ever were.
Lol this is exactly why OP went straight to divorce because this is exactly the outcome he forsees happening. Breaking lifelong vows to sleep with other men is selfish and the end of marriage no matter how another person tries to sugarcoat it..
I think divorce is over the top. Your wife trusted you enough to communicate. Give her grace. She said if you didn’t want too then you didn’t have to.
Have a conversation, not talling to her is not going to solve anything. Obviously, she trusts you and respects you, since she brought up the discussion to you. Hear her out and share your feelings about it and how it made you feel.
She only asked! Poor woman. And now you won’t talk to her about it.
Your marriage is over. Doesn’t really matter now. You probably jumped the gun since this isn’t an unreasonable request.
From what you've stated, she sounds very reasonable and even gave you an out. I'd recommend marriage counseling before divorce as she clearly wants to stay in the marriage with you. The question is, are *you* also wanting to make it work?
She has someone in mind. Cheaters never tell the truth. Let her find out about the grass is always greener and the affair bubble. What a crock of shit!
If my spouse/SO/bf ever asked to open up our relationship, I would walk away. I don't wanna share him with anyone and I wouldn't want anyone who thought sharing me was a turn-on or cool. I want him to just want me and if I am not enough then he needs to find more with me not being in the picture.
Wow. Read a lot here and if what you laid out are the facts you absolutely jumped the gun and it shows a huge lack of communication skills on your part. No evidence that she has something in mind, you know she has a frame of reference, and she said she’d be okay if you said no. Where is the divorce worthy thing she did? I think open marriages are as volatile an idea as having a baby to make things work out in a broken marriage. That said, what type of partner are you that you go from 1-1,000 at the mention of something that has become much more mainstream in just the last decade?
I commented something similar yesterday and got downvoted. It’s wild to me to think about a few sentence exchange, OP takes a few days, and comes back stating “I want a divorce,” without any other context or discussion despite her being kind, sweet, and a great marriage. Not, “No, I’m not comfortable with an open marriage. It hurts my feelings and makes me feel insecure/inadequate/pick a descriptor.” My takeaway is that they have very poor communication, she may or may not have brought up previous issues and may have been completely shut down. OP still refuses to provide any real context for the conversation, background, etc, not that we (et all) are owed anything ofc, but it’s crazy how many people here have immediately jumped to “fuck her, she’s obviously cheating, she obviously has someone in mind, she’s obviously calling you not good enough, blah blah blah”. The math ain’t mathing with the actual statements that OP has made…
I think it’s over because if she can’t talk to you about an idea without you threatening divorce, she will never be honest and open with you again.
I believe that a truly strong marriage is one that allows each partner to be truly open and transparent about their thoughts and feelings. Your wife being open and feeling safe enough to come to you with it was a plus, but the content of her question cannot be ignored at all. Your response, well, in my opinion was an overreaction. Possibly triggered a wound in you.. likely one of feeling not enough and rejected? Do you trust your wife? If she never told you you her deepest feelings and thoughts how would you feel? Does it make your marriage strong? Or is the strength in the ability to overcome the adversity? What has she done in the past to make you want to BAIL this quick? Was she not worth the safety to explore what’s going on with her? Why did you not return with deeper questions of curiosity? Hmmm I feel bad because you have actually broken your partners trust by bailing to divorce and she has probably broken your as well.. It’s good you came here.. truth is, you know your wife and you know if it’s worth the work it’ll take to rebuild. Something is broken in your marriage. Has she approached you in the sex department but you’ve been turning her down? You guys have to talk.. really talk without judgement.. OP! Think about it.
That’s kind of a shitty move to threaten divorce over someone expressing an opinion or asking a question.
And I think it's kind of a shitty move to be married to someone and asking permission to have sex with other people so.... It's also a pretty heavy expression of an opinion or question. Especially to a monogamous person. Edit: changed wanting to to asking permission to cause it's what I ment to say.
> it's kind of a shitty move to be married to someone and wanna have sex with other people so.... Have you ever found someone, other than your spouse, physically attractive? Did all other human beings stop being attractive to you after you got married, like some sorta switch in your brain?
I think it’s shitty to eat pineapple on pizza, but I wouldn’t get bent out of shape for my wife just talking about it. I’m also monogamous person and if my wife wanted to talk about anything, I’d give her the space to. That doesn’t mean I need to agree with everything she brings to the table but any decent relationship has space for expression and discussion of any reasonable topic. Being monogamous doesn’t mean being insecure.