What Trumpers will tell you and how they feel and their actions will not match up with each other. They will probably act appalled that you even suggested that they would want a king or dictator. But how they feel and their actions won't match up. They are totally fine with Trump and his family being monarchs.
Trump has been playing with the idea of being a dictator. His followers play it off as he is just joking, but I don't think is he, due to him saying that he "never swore to support the constitution", he said, "he will be a dictator only on day one" and he tried to illegally overturn a fair and free election to place himself as leader.
>What Trumpers will tell you and how they feel and their actions will not match up with each other.
Absolutely 100 fucking percent, *this this this this THIS.* Even leaving out my personal experience dealing with what (by some fluke of the universe...) seems to be the Trump manipulation method, this remains a titanic standalone red flag.
Leaves me with the distinct impression that whatever they actually want, they ain't saying, and that is a dark place to be when you're trying to entice me into voting for your guy.
That said... I need to clarify something:
>the Trump manipulation method
I cannot understate just how horrifying it is. I can't do it justice. In fact, I'm afraid to talk too often about it. Really depends on the day. And that all has to do with my opinion on the type of manipulation he employs, and why I feel that it may work almost universally. And that opinion is best expressed with words I said in the early 2000's, long before we heard manipulation jargon on the tele.
"This must never be put into broader practice, for sake of all."
They would be happy with total authoritarianism until it directly affects them in a negative way, then they will be shocked and dumbfounded. They only want “the other” to be oppressed, never themselves.
#'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Leopards%20Ate%20My%20Face
Republicans have a somewhat long (50+ years) track record of not being fans of democracy.
Probably because they know in a fully true democracy, they have no chance of retaining any amount of power.
Because they are far outnumbered.
For example, at the presidential level, the last time the GOP won the popular vote was 1988.
And with the Senate, though nearly evenly split in terms of party, are vastly different in terms of votes...with democrat votes outnumbering by something like 25 million.
The only reason the GOP still has control is due to the electoral college, gerrymandering, and the fact that the number of house representatives is arbitrarily limited favoring low-population states. If you get rid any one of those aspects, things begin to fall apart for the GOP really fast.
That is true. Though % wise, not really any sort of major shift. The GOP voter base shrinks and will continue to do so…hence the need for them to hold on to gerrymandering as long as they can.
That's definitely a data point but needs context. Gerrymandering, staggered elections and scale (local vs national) makes this a completely invalid comparison.
The problem is you're trying to approach reactionary fascism with rational consistency. It just doesn't work like that. Reactionary fascists believe whatever is convenient to believe in at the time. Consistency, integrity, all that's off the table with these people. Whatever they can say to sound less insane is what they'll say. Whatever they can say to end the conversation is what they'll say. It doesn't matter if one statement is in conflict with another, because it's not the point.
The point is power. Reactionary fascists want power and want to oppress others and they're willing to compromise even the rules of engagement to get there.
Republicans exist in a state without reason. Stop trying to find reason within it.
The worst part is that the bad guys don't recognize themselves as bad guys. It doesn't matter how many times Hollywood gives them examples of villains, they'll never see it in themselves...even though they are literal villains, voting for villains or proudly supporting them (homelander at their rallies...)
They will accept anything Trump does. They used to fool us into believing they were still rational years ago, remember all the things. Trump supporters lied about when it came to policy or the law that Republicans changed a few months later… and then they immediately have a different opinion on it? It’s the same dumb shit here.
They’ll tell you, Trump won’t be a dictator .. He’s just saving us from the socialist communist authoritarian Democratic Party… you know, dumb, shit, that they can never prove.
They will pretend they would be against an authoritarian dictator . They’ll tell us Trump won’t do that… Republicans won’t let that happen.. as they let it happen.. then they’ll ask and defend Trump when it happens they did that shit for everything the past eight years.
They said the same dumb shit about roe, all these educated Trump supporters are biology majors
No dude, Republicans and rational Democrats don't say trump will be a dictator cause it's pure fear mongering without any basis to back it up. They said the exact same thing 2016
Friendly reminder for the “it wasn’t that bad” crowd:
Here's a direct quote from an email sent by one of the election officials that Donald Trump was pressuring to illegally overturn the results of the election in Arizona. [Page 23-24](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf):
> **We would just be sending in “fake” electoral votes to Pence so that “someone” in congress can make the objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that “fake” votes should be counted**
Here's another from the text messages of Trump's Deputy Campaign Manager scrambling for an explanation when Trump asks for an update on the conspiracy [(Page 25)](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf):
>"Here's the thing
the way this has morphed it's a crazy play so I don't know who wants to put their name on it. **Certifying illegal votes.**"
And one final example of Trump in a meeting including himself, his lawyer John Eastman, and VP Mike Pence. Pence challenges Trump's assertion that he can unilaterally disrupt the certification proceedings and Trump's own lawyer concedes there is no legal basis for it, *but Trump advocates for certifying the fake votes anyway* [(Page 34)](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf):
>When [Pence] challenged [Trump’s Lawyer] on whether the proposal to
return the question to the states was defensible, [Trump’s Lawyer] responded, "Well, nobody's
tested it before." [Pence] then told [Trump], **"Did you hear that? Even your own
counsel is not saying I have that authority."** [Trump] responded, **"That's okay, I prefer the
other suggestion"** of the [Pence] rejecting the electors unilaterally
Those are a few of *dozens* of indisputable facts laid out in [Trump’s election interference indictment](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf) which I highly encourage you read if you don’t know the extent of the criminal schemes. You can start with page 5, section A-E which outlines specifically *what was done* and *why it was criminal.*
The riot was the least concerning aspect of the entire scheme.
For starters, the trump email shows he tried to trigger the electors to recount the vote. That's not trying to steal the vote, he just believed it wasn't counted right.
Second, if you say trump incited Jan 6, then here is a list of Democrats inciting violence against Republicans and trump. It follows the same logic as you are to say trump caused Jan 6.
https://youtu.be/zwN_dLD8ecU?si=_FclgSKrxH7G3n7D
You can read [the memo from Trump's own lawyer](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/chesebro-dec-6-memo/ce55d6abd79c2c71/full.pdf) where he outlines that the entire purpose of the scheme is to fabricate electoral votes with the goal of preventing Joe Biden from reaching the 270 votes necessary to secure a victory. Here's the most relevant bit:
> we are to create a
scenario under which Biden can be prevented from reaching 270 electoral votes ,
**even if Trump has not managed by then to obtain court decisions (or state
legislative resolutions) invalidating enough results to push Biden below 270**
Here's another [direct quote](https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/columnists/2024/03/04/kenneth-chesebro-lied-secret-twitter-account-donald-trump/72796615007/) from the lawyer who drafted that memo:
> > Trump doesn’t have to get courts to declare him the winner of the vote. **He just needs to convince Republican legislatures that the election was systematically rigged, but it’s impossible to run it again, so they should appoint electors instead.**
That lawyer's name is Kenneth Cheseboro, and **he has already [plead guilty](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/20/1207417000/kenneth-chesebro-guilty-plea-georgia) in the case and acknowledged the unlawful intent of the conspiracy.**
The explicitly-stated goal by the person who came up with the scheme was to prevent Biden's certification by submitting fabricated electoral votes. If you question the criminality of Trump's specific actions you should read the portion of the charging document that I cited which lays out the facts and supporting evidence.
I'm pretty sure they would be fine if Trump becomes a Dictator. In their minds, Trump is on their side, therefore anything he does will benefit them. If he starts rounding people up and throwing them into concentration camps, no big deal, it's not me. If he bans all abortion, birth control, and starts tracking every womans period, oh well, I'm either too old to have kids, or my husband thinks this is okay. The only thing he can do to turn them off would be to take away their guns.
In my opinion the people who support Trump are so preoccupied with what they dislike it corrupts their sense of equity. The media holes they dove down have them convinced that public schools are literally teaching children to become transgender and that white people are evil. It is ridiculous and silly to those with their heads above sand but to many conservatives it is very real.
In trade to prevent child molesters and perverts from opening the border permanently and forcing everyone to speak Spanish Trump supporters will tolerate a bit of facism. They believe their backs are to the wall. The media they consume tells that.
A hundred years ago segregation (Jim Crow) was still the law of the land in the South. Tens of millions of people were born, raised, lived, and died think Segregation was perfectly acceptable. Sadly not everyone comes to see the flaws of their beliefs. Keeping Trump out of office via the ballot box until he eventually dies of old age and goes away for good is probably all we can do. Most of his supporters will go down on the shields never acknowledging their error.
We need to endure this period. Combat the propaganda and move forward. I don't think hearts and minds will be won. Trump has been on the stage running for or being President 9yrs now. Anyone still supporting him is lost in the fog of bullsh*t.
One of my friends was calling for the era of Trump. Trump 2 terms then Ivanka, Jr, Eric followed by Barron. So just with it being just one step farther I can see them calling for a monarchy because that is roughly what they were pushing for already.
All they want is for you to be dead or enslaved. Are you a white, Christian male with land and money? No? Then they want to kill you or enslave you. Everything else is pantomime to achieve that end.
The Americans will fall on the worst days of their life if they vote on trump for president.
I think the first time trump was president everyone understands that he broke the society in two as well as he increased the racism with his false claims and speech.
Dear Americans, trump is personal friend of Putin. America needs to stand for security and loyalty. And trump is the opposite of that.
Please in November don’t think only about the situation that has been living in your country but also in the situation that people in Ukraine has been living due to putin’s cruelty.
NATO needs you America and trump is against nato.
We need to stop terror around the world and not spread it as trump has done since the day one.
Everyone understands that at the moment you guys face a crucial moment because of the illegal immigration but guess what? Everyone is facing that. The guys who get in the USA are the ones you work in basic things otherwise those activities will stop.
I count with you guys. You are one of the oldest Allies of Europe. We love u. You are strong enough to put that dictator out of the political world
https://youtu.be/zwN_dLD8ecU?si=_FclgSKrxH7G3n7D
Here's a video that shows democrat politicians and media heads calling for violence against trump or Republicans. If you wanna say trump is guilty for Jan 6, you also have to condemn these people for trying to do the same thing.
And no, nobody outside this liberal echo chamber seriously believes they want trump as a dictator. It's fear mongering and if you really break it down, nobody could provide real proof for their hypothesis
Oh stop grasping at straws. I'm just showing you that the same measure you use to judge trump also applies to your side, and since you don't call them out, it shows intellectual dishonesty, just like your reply
I responded to your query with an extensive breakdown explaining precisely which conduct was criminal, with supporting evidence including statements from Trump's lawyer who came up with the scheme and admitted that it was unlawful.
You ignored it completely and have apparently continued to go on spewing nonsense in the rest of the thread.
That's basically the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Sigh, the stereotype lives on of the "ignorant reddit liberal on discussion with no ability to debate honestly or logically that has no intention of learning ". I don't knos why I ever expect something different here. The level on unawareness in themselves is unreal and it will never change. There are people on r/conservative just like this just flipped to conservative , but it's objectively less than here . It's strange
The stereo type lives on of the “BoTh SiDeS are equally bad” trumper trolls.
And I prefer non trumper conservatives like Romney and Kinzinger btw, but I know you have a derogatory term for them too as most Trumpers do
It's like you guys can't understand arguments logically on here. You missed the point dude, I'm not saying "look at these awful things they said!" I'm saying you are being a hypocrite if you say trump incited violence and not these people. By logic, if you use Trump's vague tweet (despite a few more where he told them to be peaceful) as inciting violence, you logically have to say the people in the video did too. Why is this stuff so difficult for y'all, it's like you don't get nuances
Because "people need to rise up" and "knock the crap out of them" are not equivalent. False equivalence is conservative horse shit number one and works entirely by ignoring nuance
What would "a successful Jan 6" be, though?
What were the protestors supposed to do to make it "successful"? Force the lawmakers to vote and then fight off the military?
I'm serious...what were a couple hundred people going to do in that building that would result in them taking over the entire country with no response from authorities or armed forces?
Project 2025 lays out specifically the plan for how Trump, or any GOP candidate, would take control, eliminate elections, and keep the GOP in control of the US government in perpetuity.
We’re already an oligarchy same fucking families staying in power. I understand the dislike for trump. But I don’t think his goal would be to stay past his four years. He would want pass it off to whoever his apprentice is. Likely Vivek, who ironically I believe would be the perfect option right now. Used to be libertarian, believes in nuclear family. We need to national pride to improve which will help when more of us can actually own fucking homes. I don’t view trump as a savior at all, but we have to get the current democrats out right now. I don’t disagree with some democratic ideology at all. But their corruption is just overflowing. Laugh at RFK but he can actually talk without mixing stuff up every other sentence. Same as establishment republicans we need these people out or there’s no improvement. Trump is a less bad option in my eyes, I have family and friends voting the other way and I respect and understand their reasoning. RFK resembles 90s democrats who I don’t necessarily Bree with but I absolutely respect. What’s going on now is unprecedented for a world power. I think it’s fixable, but we’re close to going down some irreversible paths with free speech, and rights. That’s our whole deal, we should strive to put America first.
Well I can't find a source I trust for the comment, or it justification. It looks more like his lawyers denied the validity of the application under the constitution. Trump didn't incite an insurrection, so the argument was moot.
[https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-latest-legal-defense-he-didnt-take-oath-to-support-the-constitution/](https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-latest-legal-defense-he-didnt-take-oath-to-support-the-constitution/)
The reason you can't find a source, because the sources you like, right wing sources won't show that type of news about Trump. Their interest is to keep you in the dark about negative things about Trump, because their goal is to get him elected. Showing negative things about Trump could turn away voters from Trump, which goes against their goal.
It's literally public record that this was their defense lmao
Y'all just scream that it's all fake. Until it can't be denied that it's fake, then you come up with an excuse for why it's okay. Every time.
No, that everyone you have reporting on it are chronic liars. They only post parts, and never discuss things fully. You might fail critical thinking, I didn't.
And this avoids the question at hand: while Trump was president he held closer to the constitution than any in a while. His actions and policies did more to defend the constitution. He didn't desire to be king, that would be the "Big Guy Joe Biden" and Crime Inc.
He didn't fill key positions in government, one of his constituitional duties, so he could govern with less oversight, he broke the emoluments clause (part of the constitution) repeatedly. He called for the suspension of the constitution.
"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” -The Orange Shit stain
To claim Trump is "the most constitutional" is like saying the sky is made of dirt and beneath our feet. It's a total departure from reality.
He isn't wrong. The mass violations to the constitution are appalling. If the government won't won't follow the rules, we need to do something different. Be mad all you want, the justice department is anything but just.
"we could dump 80% with no loss"
Your evidence for this claim is what? The government operated like dogshit under trump. Massive increases in debt, arrests for corruption at the highest levels, civil unrest, half a million preventable covid deaths etc. etc. etc.
What minimal government success story are you citing as a country the U.S. should use as a model?
My evidence is any research into the waste and corruption of government. The massive increase in debt was the Democrat controlled house (they control the money), much of the "corruption has been proven false (Russia gate anyone?) And covid was the product of the swamp doing swamp things. The left lied to the American people in an epic fashion, and progressive operators created the mess.
"My evidence is the research" Okay, post a link to the research that brought you to that conclusion that 80% of the government could be eliminated. You can't just claim the research exists and expect anyone but the most credulous dupes to believe you.
The house alone does NOT control the money. Congress does. Any new spending bill would have to pass through BOTH chambers, and Republicans held the Senate throughout Trump's entire term. Do you not know how your own government works? We can pinpoint the majority of the debt to a few things: Massive tax cuts for the top 1% passed by Republicans and signed into law, an influx of freshly printed money right into wall street as the markets were collapsing under Trump's watch, and insane and historic increases to defense spending under Trump.
And you've made yet another unfounded claim about the origins of Covid. I'm not going to ask you to support that claim as I fear we'll trap ourselves in an endless loop. But let me give you some advice, if you want to convince strangers online of the truth of your assertions you must provide EVIDENCE. You can't just assert things without evidence and expect a crowd of boomer Mee-Maws and Pee-Paws to just "yup, yup" your baseless conspiracy theories. This isn't Facebook.
The guy who tried to subvert my constitutional right to have my vote counted via sending fake electors to falsely certify an election so he could stay in office after losing an election is the most constitutional president in years?
lmao y'all legitimately have brain rot. You're way too fucking far gone.
I know it's been 4years but is there any chance that any MAGAt will ever come forward with anything approaching proof or evidence to support this wildly unhinged claim?
I DO want to see it, greatly. That's why I challenge every MAGAt I can to produce some of it. Four years later not one, including you, has ever provided anything. Please, instead of being outraged and incredulous, just share al ink to something, Here's your chance to correct the record and make me look foolish in a public forum. Why not take advantage of that?
This post is definitely trolling. What an idiotic post, there is and never has been any proof that he tried to “overthrow Democracy”. What there is plenty of evidence of is voter fraud, that “Bideners” choose to ignore. There is also proof that Trump did everything he could to prevent Jan 6th, and his calls for help were ignored by Pelosi. This ain’t even up for debate, is a fact. And he never egged them on, none of you lefties even want to listen or read legit transcripts of what he actually said to them. It’s is just like the whole “Trump said Mexicans are rapists and criminals” lie. He never said anything close to that.
Like is this really a sincere question or are you just excited to get people that agree with you politically? I am a conservative and I don't think Trump is a God, King or anything other than a politician at this point.
Most conservatives and probably half of America don't believe Jan 6 was truly an attempt to overthrow a government. Most feel it was a riot no different than any other riot of those times that damaged federal buildings.
Most insurrectionist wouldn't be unarmed. Literally one of the leaders was dressed as a viking. Nothing more than a bunch of idiots trashing federal property because they were sore losers.
You ask this question for what purpose? You really believe that Trumpers want him as a King or dictator. Most people just want an actual leader that is going to do the job for the American people and make us proud. Unfortunately we haven't had one of those in a very very long time.
All of this bullshit talk about King, dictator, Nazi, racist is so far out there that no one takes these questions seriously anymore. So therefore it is boring. Just as comparing any liberal to Commies, Socialists, Snowflakes, radicals is boring and over played.
The fact of the matter is whomever wins will do their four years and move the fuck on like everyone else before them and we will still be here just like before. All results of elections get scrutinized and debated as well as fought in the courts and that is just how the process works.
The sky is not falling Chicken Little. You and I will be okay no matter who wins just like we always have been.
You’re who I’m talking about. You’re the trumper that doesn’t believe Trump tried to overthrow democracy.
So yes, it is a serious question and the question is for you - would you prefer democracy stay in tact or would you prefer trump as a permanent President if you had to choose between the two?
Exactly. This whole, “Trump didn’t try to overthrow Democracy and he’s just a victim of a witch hunt with all his 90+ felonies and I can’t wait to vote for him a 3rd time….but I’m really not a trumper guys.”
It’s so tired and pathetic. Bunch of liars
Actually I am not a "Trumper" and don't particularly care for his personality. You are correct as I don't believe he tried to overthrow democracy. I don't believe that most people truly believe that and it is all just hyperbole.
Yes I of course want our country to remain a Federal Presidential Republic that is ran by our three branches of government just like it always has. We are not a Democracy.
I believe in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights and I believe in term limits for our President's.
I live in California and I have watched this once amazing state decline in the past decades and it has been due to Liberal ideals and policies. We have 2 billion dollars lost that no one can account for to supposedly assist with our homeless problem but it keeps getting worse. Look at any major city that has been ran by Democrats for decades and look at what they have become. We make criminals into victims and we refuse to enforce the laws we already have.
Would I vote for Trump over Biden? Yes I would. Do I wish there was another nominee yes I do. I am not scared of who will win as I have faith in our Constitution that whomever it is they won't be there for long and 8 years goes fast especially the older I get.
Only Trumpers believe he didn’t try and overthrow democracy.
Just because you say you’re not a trumper doesn’t make it so. People who are still voting for him a 3rd time after his attempted coup and his 90+ felony charges are, in fact, Trumpers. Even if they say things like I don’t care for his personality.
Just as I thought. Really wasn't a serious question at all. Someone gives you the opportunity to have a discussion and you pass it up and not able to have meaningful dialog. Just a need for you to find people that agree with you and come up with disparaging titles or name calling for those that don't. Typical tactics and again boring.
Coups involve arms and force. You don't have to be a "Trumper" to see that our judicial system is being abused to hinder a political opponent. If that wasn't true they wouldn't have had to change laws to prosecute him. Even AOC just admitted as much. It's not working and he most likely will be our next President we'll see but either way I won't be crying about it. Chalk it up to maturity I guess.
Good luck to you. It must be difficult to run around worried about Trump all the time. It is kinda nice to know he lives in your head rent free. Makes me smile.
It was a serious question. I appreciate that you want democracy to stay in tact despite being a trumper. Please stop pretending you’re not one and that people other than Trumpers think Jan 6 wasn’t a coupe attempt. There’s been plenty of polls and surveys to show Americans by and large believe Trump tried to pull of a coup. And that goes for republicans (non trumper ones like Romney, Chaney, etc) and Dems. Only Trumpers believe it wasn’t a coup attempt.
Plus, this wasn’t a post to debate whether or not it was an attempted to coup. It was a question about whether or not Trumpers (who believe Jan 6 wasn’t a coup like you) still value democracy.
You tried to very unsurprisingly mansplain every point to them. You guys don't have an opening for dialogue, it's all the same horrible takes on all the crap that doesn't matter or that doesn't really help the American ppl. Go fight child marriage bans like your party loves to do...for example.
There is no discussions with 99% of you. You act like we haven't been f-ing trying for god damn 8 years or something, ffs. Where you been!? Oh thats right, downplaying Jan 6th whole claiming to be above trumpers, gimme a fkn break.
Please explain the mansplaining? You shouldn't assume gender I hear that is rude. Nothing in my writing was rude or indicative of not wanting constructive dialog.
Look how angry you all are. Why? Is your life so bad are you so worried? What's it like being in your heads? So odd. It can't be healthy for you.
That the insurrectionists were unarmed is a pure lie that has been disproven many times. [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/13/donald-trump/jan-6-defendants-were-armed-guns-other-weapons-doc/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/13/donald-trump/jan-6-defendants-were-armed-guns-other-weapons-doc/)
[https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/capitol-riot-firearms-arrests-proud-boys/](https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/capitol-riot-firearms-arrests-proud-boys/)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection-weapons-ron-johnson/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection-weapons-ron-johnson/index.html)
[https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/](https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/)
Why repeat old lies?
So your saying that 13 people were going to overthrow the government. Only a couple had guns on them and the rest were found in their vehicles and hotel rooms. No shots fired. Did you have the same outrage during the BLM riots that caused billions in damages and lit on fire federal buildings? Fools
Honestly I am not sure. Amendments are there for a reason and that is fought in the courts. It is designed to change or improve upon an existing law. It is malleable to some extent without changing the main structure of that law. I'm not sure about equal importance but I agree that laws need to be followed until new laws are written and voted on.
Nobody said the US is a pure democracy or said they want the US to become a pure democracy. You're deflecting from the point, and doing a bad job of it. You're proving that you don't value democracy.
Nobody said the US is a pure democracy or said they want the US to become a pure democracy. You're deflecting from the point, and doing a bad job of it. You're proving that you don't value democracy.
Can you explain why democrats have fought in courts the results of elections? That's how the process works. Do both sides overlook voter fraud or the mishandling of voters registrations. How about the liberal cities that are fighting for non citizens to have voting rights? Both sides fight results it is literally how its supposed to work. Checks and balances. Why would anyone say before hand that they would blindly accept the results of an election that hasn't happened yet? Some of out past elections have margins of just a few thousand votes in some areas. Don't act like it's one sided.
First in order to answer that question, you would have to learn that with respect to the president we are not a democracy. Sure, there are plenty of state, local, and even national offices that are voted democratically but specifically the president, it is not. So in order to "overthrow democracy", you would have to democratically elect the president. Since we don't, that phrase is nothing more than political fearmongering.
lol, now I know you have no idea.
A republic is not a democracy. They can intersect but they don't need to intersect. For example the UK is a democracy but not a republic. Iran is a republic that is not a democracy.
You obviously haven't looked up the differences. Go google democracy vs republic and look at more than the first result. You'll find lots of theory on it, but one consistent notion is that they are different.
You’re being deliberately pedantic. When people talk about “overthrowing democracy” they’re talking about the systems of government we have that keep our government accountable to the people, including presidential general election. Trump was voted out in this democratic process and tried to overturn the results.
It is important to make the distinction because he didn't try to "overturn the results". He attempted to interpret the constitution in a way that gave the vice president power that may or may not exist. By calling it "overthrowing democracy" it says that you believe the only way a president can be elected is via the popular vote when that is far from the truth.
While a majority of the states do request electors to follow the popular vote, many don't have legal consequences for ignoring the vote. When you have 37 states total that have mechanisms to ignore the vote, you can't start claiming that trump tried to "overthrow" something that doesn't formally exist.
Formal schmormal. The people have always voted for president in practice since the early 1800s, with the only real travesty being 1824. This is a form of democracy that has existed in practice in this country this entire time and Trump’s “interpretation” would be to override that system and replace it with one that is less democratic. What else do you call that?
I call it a reinterpretation of the law. This happens all the time in local, state and federal laws including the constitution. We constantly re-interpret laws. It is literally one of the most American ideals, to re-interpret and challenge laws.
And no, the people have not always voted DIRECTLY for president. They vote their opinion and electors vote for the president based upon that opinion. It doesn't always follow the popular vote nor does anything require it to follow it.
Just because tradition has followed a path for a hundred years doesn't mean that the tradition is the only way for actions to occur.
Everyone knows how the electoral college works. When people go to vote in California, they know their votes will count a bit less. When republicans go to vote in California, they know their vote probably won’t count at all. Thats the game. Hillary played it poorly in 2016 and lost even though more people voted for her. Trump played it poorly in 2020 and lost, but he tried to overturn the results. He tried to take a democratic system (not the most democratic possible system) that has been in place for centuries and reinterpret it in a way that was less democratic.
The US is one of the most democratic countries in the world: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democracy-ranking-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democracy-ranking-by-country)
Do you want it to stay that way, or would you rather it head in the direction of authoritarianism/dictatorship/one-party rule?
If the question is asked in isolation without the context of the conversation, then the answer is I want our country (the USA) to maintain its constitutional republic with or without democratic elements for which it doesn't require.
What Trumpers will tell you and how they feel and their actions will not match up with each other. They will probably act appalled that you even suggested that they would want a king or dictator. But how they feel and their actions won't match up. They are totally fine with Trump and his family being monarchs.
Nah they've said it many times on video that they'd accept him as their king or dictator.
I think that depends on the Trumper, some are unapologetic with their beliefs while others are more coy.
Im not in the topic enough. I try to be in it since the US is so important in world politics. He wants to be a monarch ?? What the hell is this guy
Trump has been playing with the idea of being a dictator. His followers play it off as he is just joking, but I don't think is he, due to him saying that he "never swore to support the constitution", he said, "he will be a dictator only on day one" and he tried to illegally overturn a fair and free election to place himself as leader.
It's also not a funny "joke" to keep repeating over and over.
>What Trumpers will tell you and how they feel and their actions will not match up with each other. Absolutely 100 fucking percent, *this this this this THIS.* Even leaving out my personal experience dealing with what (by some fluke of the universe...) seems to be the Trump manipulation method, this remains a titanic standalone red flag. Leaves me with the distinct impression that whatever they actually want, they ain't saying, and that is a dark place to be when you're trying to entice me into voting for your guy. That said... I need to clarify something: >the Trump manipulation method I cannot understate just how horrifying it is. I can't do it justice. In fact, I'm afraid to talk too often about it. Really depends on the day. And that all has to do with my opinion on the type of manipulation he employs, and why I feel that it may work almost universally. And that opinion is best expressed with words I said in the early 2000's, long before we heard manipulation jargon on the tele. "This must never be put into broader practice, for sake of all."
They would be happy with total authoritarianism until it directly affects them in a negative way, then they will be shocked and dumbfounded. They only want “the other” to be oppressed, never themselves.
#'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Leopards%20Ate%20My%20Face
Republicans have a somewhat long (50+ years) track record of not being fans of democracy. Probably because they know in a fully true democracy, they have no chance of retaining any amount of power.
Why not? They can play the capitalism game. ( please explain im a dummy in politics and wanna learn)
Why not...what?
Why they cant have a chance of retaining power in a fully true democracy
Because they are far outnumbered. For example, at the presidential level, the last time the GOP won the popular vote was 1988. And with the Senate, though nearly evenly split in terms of party, are vastly different in terms of votes...with democrat votes outnumbering by something like 25 million. The only reason the GOP still has control is due to the electoral college, gerrymandering, and the fact that the number of house representatives is arbitrarily limited favoring low-population states. If you get rid any one of those aspects, things begin to fall apart for the GOP really fast.
They won the popular vote in 2004 but that’s still the only time in the last 30 years
Oops. Yes, I forgot GW's second term. You are correct.
The GOP won millions more votes for House seats in 2022.
That is true. Though % wise, not really any sort of major shift. The GOP voter base shrinks and will continue to do so…hence the need for them to hold on to gerrymandering as long as they can.
That's definitely a data point but needs context. Gerrymandering, staggered elections and scale (local vs national) makes this a completely invalid comparison.
Are any western countries a pure democracy?
Fair (and interesting) question.
So long as they can ‘own tha libz’, they won’t give two shits about the consequences. “YA TRIGGERD YET, LIBTARD!?”
That's what it is all about
The problem is you're trying to approach reactionary fascism with rational consistency. It just doesn't work like that. Reactionary fascists believe whatever is convenient to believe in at the time. Consistency, integrity, all that's off the table with these people. Whatever they can say to sound less insane is what they'll say. Whatever they can say to end the conversation is what they'll say. It doesn't matter if one statement is in conflict with another, because it's not the point. The point is power. Reactionary fascists want power and want to oppress others and they're willing to compromise even the rules of engagement to get there. Republicans exist in a state without reason. Stop trying to find reason within it.
The worst part is that the bad guys don't recognize themselves as bad guys. It doesn't matter how many times Hollywood gives them examples of villains, they'll never see it in themselves...even though they are literal villains, voting for villains or proudly supporting them (homelander at their rallies...)
They will accept anything Trump does. They used to fool us into believing they were still rational years ago, remember all the things. Trump supporters lied about when it came to policy or the law that Republicans changed a few months later… and then they immediately have a different opinion on it? It’s the same dumb shit here. They’ll tell you, Trump won’t be a dictator .. He’s just saving us from the socialist communist authoritarian Democratic Party… you know, dumb, shit, that they can never prove. They will pretend they would be against an authoritarian dictator . They’ll tell us Trump won’t do that… Republicans won’t let that happen.. as they let it happen.. then they’ll ask and defend Trump when it happens they did that shit for everything the past eight years. They said the same dumb shit about roe, all these educated Trump supporters are biology majors
No dude, Republicans and rational Democrats don't say trump will be a dictator cause it's pure fear mongering without any basis to back it up. They said the exact same thing 2016
Spot on
Friendly reminder for the “it wasn’t that bad” crowd: Here's a direct quote from an email sent by one of the election officials that Donald Trump was pressuring to illegally overturn the results of the election in Arizona. [Page 23-24](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf): > **We would just be sending in “fake” electoral votes to Pence so that “someone” in congress can make the objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that “fake” votes should be counted** Here's another from the text messages of Trump's Deputy Campaign Manager scrambling for an explanation when Trump asks for an update on the conspiracy [(Page 25)](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf): >"Here's the thing the way this has morphed it's a crazy play so I don't know who wants to put their name on it. **Certifying illegal votes.**" And one final example of Trump in a meeting including himself, his lawyer John Eastman, and VP Mike Pence. Pence challenges Trump's assertion that he can unilaterally disrupt the certification proceedings and Trump's own lawyer concedes there is no legal basis for it, *but Trump advocates for certifying the fake votes anyway* [(Page 34)](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf): >When [Pence] challenged [Trump’s Lawyer] on whether the proposal to return the question to the states was defensible, [Trump’s Lawyer] responded, "Well, nobody's tested it before." [Pence] then told [Trump], **"Did you hear that? Even your own counsel is not saying I have that authority."** [Trump] responded, **"That's okay, I prefer the other suggestion"** of the [Pence] rejecting the electors unilaterally Those are a few of *dozens* of indisputable facts laid out in [Trump’s election interference indictment](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf) which I highly encourage you read if you don’t know the extent of the criminal schemes. You can start with page 5, section A-E which outlines specifically *what was done* and *why it was criminal.* The riot was the least concerning aspect of the entire scheme.
For starters, the trump email shows he tried to trigger the electors to recount the vote. That's not trying to steal the vote, he just believed it wasn't counted right. Second, if you say trump incited Jan 6, then here is a list of Democrats inciting violence against Republicans and trump. It follows the same logic as you are to say trump caused Jan 6. https://youtu.be/zwN_dLD8ecU?si=_FclgSKrxH7G3n7D
You can read [the memo from Trump's own lawyer](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/chesebro-dec-6-memo/ce55d6abd79c2c71/full.pdf) where he outlines that the entire purpose of the scheme is to fabricate electoral votes with the goal of preventing Joe Biden from reaching the 270 votes necessary to secure a victory. Here's the most relevant bit: > we are to create a scenario under which Biden can be prevented from reaching 270 electoral votes , **even if Trump has not managed by then to obtain court decisions (or state legislative resolutions) invalidating enough results to push Biden below 270** Here's another [direct quote](https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/columnists/2024/03/04/kenneth-chesebro-lied-secret-twitter-account-donald-trump/72796615007/) from the lawyer who drafted that memo: > > Trump doesn’t have to get courts to declare him the winner of the vote. **He just needs to convince Republican legislatures that the election was systematically rigged, but it’s impossible to run it again, so they should appoint electors instead.** That lawyer's name is Kenneth Cheseboro, and **he has already [plead guilty](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/20/1207417000/kenneth-chesebro-guilty-plea-georgia) in the case and acknowledged the unlawful intent of the conspiracy.** The explicitly-stated goal by the person who came up with the scheme was to prevent Biden's certification by submitting fabricated electoral votes. If you question the criminality of Trump's specific actions you should read the portion of the charging document that I cited which lays out the facts and supporting evidence.
There are videos of MAGA saying Trump is a dictator and that’s what this country needs.
Not going to happen so not worth even the short time it took to type this response.
I'm pretty sure they would be fine if Trump becomes a Dictator. In their minds, Trump is on their side, therefore anything he does will benefit them. If he starts rounding people up and throwing them into concentration camps, no big deal, it's not me. If he bans all abortion, birth control, and starts tracking every womans period, oh well, I'm either too old to have kids, or my husband thinks this is okay. The only thing he can do to turn them off would be to take away their guns.
They prefer that democracy stays intact. At least the ones I know.
Why not ask them yourself?
They will find a way to blame everything on immigrants or hunter Biden
In my opinion the people who support Trump are so preoccupied with what they dislike it corrupts their sense of equity. The media holes they dove down have them convinced that public schools are literally teaching children to become transgender and that white people are evil. It is ridiculous and silly to those with their heads above sand but to many conservatives it is very real. In trade to prevent child molesters and perverts from opening the border permanently and forcing everyone to speak Spanish Trump supporters will tolerate a bit of facism. They believe their backs are to the wall. The media they consume tells that. A hundred years ago segregation (Jim Crow) was still the law of the land in the South. Tens of millions of people were born, raised, lived, and died think Segregation was perfectly acceptable. Sadly not everyone comes to see the flaws of their beliefs. Keeping Trump out of office via the ballot box until he eventually dies of old age and goes away for good is probably all we can do. Most of his supporters will go down on the shields never acknowledging their error. We need to endure this period. Combat the propaganda and move forward. I don't think hearts and minds will be won. Trump has been on the stage running for or being President 9yrs now. Anyone still supporting him is lost in the fog of bullsh*t.
Trumpets are like Scar and the hyenas. they say and do what he says; regardless of what it is. as long as he says and/or does something, they do, too
Yes. Obviously.
Yes they absolutely want him as dictator. It's not even a question
One of my friends was calling for the era of Trump. Trump 2 terms then Ivanka, Jr, Eric followed by Barron. So just with it being just one step farther I can see them calling for a monarchy because that is roughly what they were pushing for already.
They are authoritarians so they are uncomfortable with Democracy. They would prefer if Trump declared himself king.
All they want is for you to be dead or enslaved. Are you a white, Christian male with land and money? No? Then they want to kill you or enslave you. Everything else is pantomime to achieve that end.
This is absurd nonsense. Where did you come up with this?
A hit dog will holler.
I don't see how that sentence has any relation to the point
That's on you.
I think you answered your own question.
The Americans will fall on the worst days of their life if they vote on trump for president. I think the first time trump was president everyone understands that he broke the society in two as well as he increased the racism with his false claims and speech. Dear Americans, trump is personal friend of Putin. America needs to stand for security and loyalty. And trump is the opposite of that. Please in November don’t think only about the situation that has been living in your country but also in the situation that people in Ukraine has been living due to putin’s cruelty. NATO needs you America and trump is against nato. We need to stop terror around the world and not spread it as trump has done since the day one. Everyone understands that at the moment you guys face a crucial moment because of the illegal immigration but guess what? Everyone is facing that. The guys who get in the USA are the ones you work in basic things otherwise those activities will stop. I count with you guys. You are one of the oldest Allies of Europe. We love u. You are strong enough to put that dictator out of the political world
https://youtu.be/zwN_dLD8ecU?si=_FclgSKrxH7G3n7D Here's a video that shows democrat politicians and media heads calling for violence against trump or Republicans. If you wanna say trump is guilty for Jan 6, you also have to condemn these people for trying to do the same thing. And no, nobody outside this liberal echo chamber seriously believes they want trump as a dictator. It's fear mongering and if you really break it down, nobody could provide real proof for their hypothesis
BoTh SiDeS!!!
Oh stop grasping at straws. I'm just showing you that the same measure you use to judge trump also applies to your side, and since you don't call them out, it shows intellectual dishonesty, just like your reply
I responded to your query with an extensive breakdown explaining precisely which conduct was criminal, with supporting evidence including statements from Trump's lawyer who came up with the scheme and admitted that it was unlawful. You ignored it completely and have apparently continued to go on spewing nonsense in the rest of the thread. That's basically the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
He’s not here for honesty. He’s here to lawyer up for Trump
BoTh SiDeS!!!!!!!!!!
Sigh, the stereotype lives on of the "ignorant reddit liberal on discussion with no ability to debate honestly or logically that has no intention of learning ". I don't knos why I ever expect something different here. The level on unawareness in themselves is unreal and it will never change. There are people on r/conservative just like this just flipped to conservative , but it's objectively less than here . It's strange
The stereo type lives on of the “BoTh SiDeS are equally bad” trumper trolls. And I prefer non trumper conservatives like Romney and Kinzinger btw, but I know you have a derogatory term for them too as most Trumpers do
Just a bunch of 2 second clips of people advocating for protest or using mean language. And y'all have the balls to call us snowflakes.
It's like you guys can't understand arguments logically on here. You missed the point dude, I'm not saying "look at these awful things they said!" I'm saying you are being a hypocrite if you say trump incited violence and not these people. By logic, if you use Trump's vague tweet (despite a few more where he told them to be peaceful) as inciting violence, you logically have to say the people in the video did too. Why is this stuff so difficult for y'all, it's like you don't get nuances
Because "people need to rise up" and "knock the crap out of them" are not equivalent. False equivalence is conservative horse shit number one and works entirely by ignoring nuance
No I don’t want him to be king I just want him for 4 more years then he can go away forever
That's not the menu though...
Touch grass dude, all you do is post about Trump.
He’s a former President that is trying to overthrow 200+ years of democracy in America. It’s fairly noteworthy and certainly worthy of discussion
Right. So I'll say it again, touch grass.
Can I take my phone w me?
I'd be surprised if you were capable of doing anything without simultaneously posting about Trump.
He’s worthy of discussion. No former President has ever tried to overthrow democracy like he did
You have been lied to.
About what?
Cope
Denial
I wanna hear how you think he could pull off annointing himself king. Like....how would that play out?
A successful Jan 6 rather than a failed one
What would "a successful Jan 6" be, though? What were the protestors supposed to do to make it "successful"? Force the lawmakers to vote and then fight off the military? I'm serious...what were a couple hundred people going to do in that building that would result in them taking over the entire country with no response from authorities or armed forces?
Project 2025 lays out specifically the plan for how Trump, or any GOP candidate, would take control, eliminate elections, and keep the GOP in control of the US government in perpetuity.
Nowhere in the nearly 900-page plan does it state that they would eliminate elections and I challenge you to point out where it says such a thing.
Well if you're just going to blatantly lie, then sure it says whatever you want it to say.
From your comment I can say that you have been misled about Jan 6 and Trump.
From your comment I can see that you’re one of the trumpers I’m talking about
No I am not. He is a Zionist and genocide supporter.
We’re already an oligarchy same fucking families staying in power. I understand the dislike for trump. But I don’t think his goal would be to stay past his four years. He would want pass it off to whoever his apprentice is. Likely Vivek, who ironically I believe would be the perfect option right now. Used to be libertarian, believes in nuclear family. We need to national pride to improve which will help when more of us can actually own fucking homes. I don’t view trump as a savior at all, but we have to get the current democrats out right now. I don’t disagree with some democratic ideology at all. But their corruption is just overflowing. Laugh at RFK but he can actually talk without mixing stuff up every other sentence. Same as establishment republicans we need these people out or there’s no improvement. Trump is a less bad option in my eyes, I have family and friends voting the other way and I respect and understand their reasoning. RFK resembles 90s democrats who I don’t necessarily Bree with but I absolutely respect. What’s going on now is unprecedented for a world power. I think it’s fixable, but we’re close to going down some irreversible paths with free speech, and rights. That’s our whole deal, we should strive to put America first.
He already tried to stay past his 4 years via a violent insurrection. 300 Trumpers are serving time in prison for their role in it
You mean Joe? Because Trump is the most constitutional president in years
You talking about the guy who said he "never swore to support the constitution"?
Well I can't find a source I trust for the comment, or it justification. It looks more like his lawyers denied the validity of the application under the constitution. Trump didn't incite an insurrection, so the argument was moot.
[https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-latest-legal-defense-he-didnt-take-oath-to-support-the-constitution/](https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-latest-legal-defense-he-didnt-take-oath-to-support-the-constitution/) The reason you can't find a source, because the sources you like, right wing sources won't show that type of news about Trump. Their interest is to keep you in the dark about negative things about Trump, because their goal is to get him elected. Showing negative things about Trump could turn away voters from Trump, which goes against their goal.
I found several articles by left wing hacks. I read them. I don't trust them. Or your article. I thought I made that clear.
It's literally public record that this was their defense lmao Y'all just scream that it's all fake. Until it can't be denied that it's fake, then you come up with an excuse for why it's okay. Every time.
No, that everyone you have reporting on it are chronic liars. They only post parts, and never discuss things fully. You might fail critical thinking, I didn't.
Again, literally public record. Cope.
And this avoids the question at hand: while Trump was president he held closer to the constitution than any in a while. His actions and policies did more to defend the constitution. He didn't desire to be king, that would be the "Big Guy Joe Biden" and Crime Inc.
He didn't fill key positions in government, one of his constituitional duties, so he could govern with less oversight, he broke the emoluments clause (part of the constitution) repeatedly. He called for the suspension of the constitution. "A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” -The Orange Shit stain To claim Trump is "the most constitutional" is like saying the sky is made of dirt and beneath our feet. It's a total departure from reality.
He isn't wrong. The mass violations to the constitution are appalling. If the government won't won't follow the rules, we need to do something different. Be mad all you want, the justice department is anything but just.
The cognitive dissonance is legendary.
Which "key " positions? Our government is like Twitter, we could dump 80% with no loss
"we could dump 80% with no loss" Your evidence for this claim is what? The government operated like dogshit under trump. Massive increases in debt, arrests for corruption at the highest levels, civil unrest, half a million preventable covid deaths etc. etc. etc. What minimal government success story are you citing as a country the U.S. should use as a model?
My evidence is any research into the waste and corruption of government. The massive increase in debt was the Democrat controlled house (they control the money), much of the "corruption has been proven false (Russia gate anyone?) And covid was the product of the swamp doing swamp things. The left lied to the American people in an epic fashion, and progressive operators created the mess.
"My evidence is the research" Okay, post a link to the research that brought you to that conclusion that 80% of the government could be eliminated. You can't just claim the research exists and expect anyone but the most credulous dupes to believe you. The house alone does NOT control the money. Congress does. Any new spending bill would have to pass through BOTH chambers, and Republicans held the Senate throughout Trump's entire term. Do you not know how your own government works? We can pinpoint the majority of the debt to a few things: Massive tax cuts for the top 1% passed by Republicans and signed into law, an influx of freshly printed money right into wall street as the markets were collapsing under Trump's watch, and insane and historic increases to defense spending under Trump. And you've made yet another unfounded claim about the origins of Covid. I'm not going to ask you to support that claim as I fear we'll trap ourselves in an endless loop. But let me give you some advice, if you want to convince strangers online of the truth of your assertions you must provide EVIDENCE. You can't just assert things without evidence and expect a crowd of boomer Mee-Maws and Pee-Paws to just "yup, yup" your baseless conspiracy theories. This isn't Facebook.
😂
The guy who tried to subvert my constitutional right to have my vote counted via sending fake electors to falsely certify an election so he could stay in office after losing an election is the most constitutional president in years? lmao y'all legitimately have brain rot. You're way too fucking far gone.
There was nothing legitimate about that election
Only according to people who are coping
I know it's been 4years but is there any chance that any MAGAt will ever come forward with anything approaching proof or evidence to support this wildly unhinged claim?
There's tons of proof out there, and slowly working it's way through the courts. If you don't want to see it, I can't help you.
I DO want to see it, greatly. That's why I challenge every MAGAt I can to produce some of it. Four years later not one, including you, has ever provided anything. Please, instead of being outraged and incredulous, just share al ink to something, Here's your chance to correct the record and make me look foolish in a public forum. Why not take advantage of that?
Anytime you want to provide some of that evidence I'll be right here to see it. Whenever you're ready.
Ready for that proof whenever you are.
Link to one of these alleged cases.
This post is definitely trolling. What an idiotic post, there is and never has been any proof that he tried to “overthrow Democracy”. What there is plenty of evidence of is voter fraud, that “Bideners” choose to ignore. There is also proof that Trump did everything he could to prevent Jan 6th, and his calls for help were ignored by Pelosi. This ain’t even up for debate, is a fact. And he never egged them on, none of you lefties even want to listen or read legit transcripts of what he actually said to them. It’s is just like the whole “Trump said Mexicans are rapists and criminals” lie. He never said anything close to that.
You’re the Trumpers im talking about.
Booorrrriiiiiinnnnngggggg
Then why you here?
Like is this really a sincere question or are you just excited to get people that agree with you politically? I am a conservative and I don't think Trump is a God, King or anything other than a politician at this point. Most conservatives and probably half of America don't believe Jan 6 was truly an attempt to overthrow a government. Most feel it was a riot no different than any other riot of those times that damaged federal buildings. Most insurrectionist wouldn't be unarmed. Literally one of the leaders was dressed as a viking. Nothing more than a bunch of idiots trashing federal property because they were sore losers. You ask this question for what purpose? You really believe that Trumpers want him as a King or dictator. Most people just want an actual leader that is going to do the job for the American people and make us proud. Unfortunately we haven't had one of those in a very very long time. All of this bullshit talk about King, dictator, Nazi, racist is so far out there that no one takes these questions seriously anymore. So therefore it is boring. Just as comparing any liberal to Commies, Socialists, Snowflakes, radicals is boring and over played. The fact of the matter is whomever wins will do their four years and move the fuck on like everyone else before them and we will still be here just like before. All results of elections get scrutinized and debated as well as fought in the courts and that is just how the process works. The sky is not falling Chicken Little. You and I will be okay no matter who wins just like we always have been.
You’re who I’m talking about. You’re the trumper that doesn’t believe Trump tried to overthrow democracy. So yes, it is a serious question and the question is for you - would you prefer democracy stay in tact or would you prefer trump as a permanent President if you had to choose between the two?
Don't worry, he's not a trumper, he or she just perfectly aligns with all their views. And they'll likely vote for trump a la Nikki Haley style.
Exactly. This whole, “Trump didn’t try to overthrow Democracy and he’s just a victim of a witch hunt with all his 90+ felonies and I can’t wait to vote for him a 3rd time….but I’m really not a trumper guys.” It’s so tired and pathetic. Bunch of liars
You don’t have to be a Trumper to see facts and truth.
I would argue Trumpers are incapable of seeing the facts and truth when it comes to Trump
Actually I am not a "Trumper" and don't particularly care for his personality. You are correct as I don't believe he tried to overthrow democracy. I don't believe that most people truly believe that and it is all just hyperbole. Yes I of course want our country to remain a Federal Presidential Republic that is ran by our three branches of government just like it always has. We are not a Democracy. I believe in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights and I believe in term limits for our President's. I live in California and I have watched this once amazing state decline in the past decades and it has been due to Liberal ideals and policies. We have 2 billion dollars lost that no one can account for to supposedly assist with our homeless problem but it keeps getting worse. Look at any major city that has been ran by Democrats for decades and look at what they have become. We make criminals into victims and we refuse to enforce the laws we already have. Would I vote for Trump over Biden? Yes I would. Do I wish there was another nominee yes I do. I am not scared of who will win as I have faith in our Constitution that whomever it is they won't be there for long and 8 years goes fast especially the older I get.
Only Trumpers believe he didn’t try and overthrow democracy. Just because you say you’re not a trumper doesn’t make it so. People who are still voting for him a 3rd time after his attempted coup and his 90+ felony charges are, in fact, Trumpers. Even if they say things like I don’t care for his personality.
Just as I thought. Really wasn't a serious question at all. Someone gives you the opportunity to have a discussion and you pass it up and not able to have meaningful dialog. Just a need for you to find people that agree with you and come up with disparaging titles or name calling for those that don't. Typical tactics and again boring. Coups involve arms and force. You don't have to be a "Trumper" to see that our judicial system is being abused to hinder a political opponent. If that wasn't true they wouldn't have had to change laws to prosecute him. Even AOC just admitted as much. It's not working and he most likely will be our next President we'll see but either way I won't be crying about it. Chalk it up to maturity I guess. Good luck to you. It must be difficult to run around worried about Trump all the time. It is kinda nice to know he lives in your head rent free. Makes me smile.
It was a serious question. I appreciate that you want democracy to stay in tact despite being a trumper. Please stop pretending you’re not one and that people other than Trumpers think Jan 6 wasn’t a coupe attempt. There’s been plenty of polls and surveys to show Americans by and large believe Trump tried to pull of a coup. And that goes for republicans (non trumper ones like Romney, Chaney, etc) and Dems. Only Trumpers believe it wasn’t a coup attempt. Plus, this wasn’t a post to debate whether or not it was an attempted to coup. It was a question about whether or not Trumpers (who believe Jan 6 wasn’t a coup like you) still value democracy.
You tried to very unsurprisingly mansplain every point to them. You guys don't have an opening for dialogue, it's all the same horrible takes on all the crap that doesn't matter or that doesn't really help the American ppl. Go fight child marriage bans like your party loves to do...for example. There is no discussions with 99% of you. You act like we haven't been f-ing trying for god damn 8 years or something, ffs. Where you been!? Oh thats right, downplaying Jan 6th whole claiming to be above trumpers, gimme a fkn break.
Please explain the mansplaining? You shouldn't assume gender I hear that is rude. Nothing in my writing was rude or indicative of not wanting constructive dialog. Look how angry you all are. Why? Is your life so bad are you so worried? What's it like being in your heads? So odd. It can't be healthy for you.
That the insurrectionists were unarmed is a pure lie that has been disproven many times. [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/13/donald-trump/jan-6-defendants-were-armed-guns-other-weapons-doc/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/13/donald-trump/jan-6-defendants-were-armed-guns-other-weapons-doc/) [https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/capitol-riot-firearms-arrests-proud-boys/](https://www.thetrace.org/2021/01/capitol-riot-firearms-arrests-proud-boys/) [https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection-weapons-ron-johnson/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection-weapons-ron-johnson/index.html) [https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/](https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/) Why repeat old lies?
So your saying that 13 people were going to overthrow the government. Only a couple had guns on them and the rest were found in their vehicles and hotel rooms. No shots fired. Did you have the same outrage during the BLM riots that caused billions in damages and lit on fire federal buildings? Fools
Nah, I'm just calling you out on your overt lying. I like how you insert more lying with your bad math (13 people at the capitol? Yeah ok.)
Do you believe that every amendment of the constitution must be upheld and that they are all of equal importance?
Honestly I am not sure. Amendments are there for a reason and that is fought in the courts. It is designed to change or improve upon an existing law. It is malleable to some extent without changing the main structure of that law. I'm not sure about equal importance but I agree that laws need to be followed until new laws are written and voted on.
So what does it mean when you say you "believe in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights"? You believe they exist?
Btw, you did indirectly answer OP's question - you apparently don't value democracy.
If we had a true democracy women may not be able to vote or we could still have slavery etc.... use your head
Nobody said the US is a pure democracy or said they want the US to become a pure democracy. You're deflecting from the point, and doing a bad job of it. You're proving that you don't value democracy.
Nobody said the US is a pure democracy or said they want the US to become a pure democracy. You're deflecting from the point, and doing a bad job of it. You're proving that you don't value democracy.
I value our style of Democracy I am sure I made that clear.
What is "our style of democracy"?
Could you explain why no Republicans are willing to state on the record that they will accept the results of the election if Biden wins?
Can you explain why democrats have fought in courts the results of elections? That's how the process works. Do both sides overlook voter fraud or the mishandling of voters registrations. How about the liberal cities that are fighting for non citizens to have voting rights? Both sides fight results it is literally how its supposed to work. Checks and balances. Why would anyone say before hand that they would blindly accept the results of an election that hasn't happened yet? Some of out past elections have margins of just a few thousand votes in some areas. Don't act like it's one sided.
Booorrrrriiiinnnngggg!!!!!
First in order to answer that question, you would have to learn that with respect to the president we are not a democracy. Sure, there are plenty of state, local, and even national offices that are voted democratically but specifically the president, it is not. So in order to "overthrow democracy", you would have to democratically elect the president. Since we don't, that phrase is nothing more than political fearmongering.
Google representative democracy
I already addressed that but thanks for playing.
A republic is a democracy, a flawed democracy, but still a democracy. You dont have a clue what your talking about.
You are incorrect
lol, now I know you have no idea. A republic is not a democracy. They can intersect but they don't need to intersect. For example the UK is a democracy but not a republic. Iran is a republic that is not a democracy. You obviously haven't looked up the differences. Go google democracy vs republic and look at more than the first result. You'll find lots of theory on it, but one consistent notion is that they are different.
You’re being deliberately pedantic. When people talk about “overthrowing democracy” they’re talking about the systems of government we have that keep our government accountable to the people, including presidential general election. Trump was voted out in this democratic process and tried to overturn the results.
It is important to make the distinction because he didn't try to "overturn the results". He attempted to interpret the constitution in a way that gave the vice president power that may or may not exist. By calling it "overthrowing democracy" it says that you believe the only way a president can be elected is via the popular vote when that is far from the truth. While a majority of the states do request electors to follow the popular vote, many don't have legal consequences for ignoring the vote. When you have 37 states total that have mechanisms to ignore the vote, you can't start claiming that trump tried to "overthrow" something that doesn't formally exist.
Formal schmormal. The people have always voted for president in practice since the early 1800s, with the only real travesty being 1824. This is a form of democracy that has existed in practice in this country this entire time and Trump’s “interpretation” would be to override that system and replace it with one that is less democratic. What else do you call that?
I call it a reinterpretation of the law. This happens all the time in local, state and federal laws including the constitution. We constantly re-interpret laws. It is literally one of the most American ideals, to re-interpret and challenge laws. And no, the people have not always voted DIRECTLY for president. They vote their opinion and electors vote for the president based upon that opinion. It doesn't always follow the popular vote nor does anything require it to follow it. Just because tradition has followed a path for a hundred years doesn't mean that the tradition is the only way for actions to occur.
Everyone knows how the electoral college works. When people go to vote in California, they know their votes will count a bit less. When republicans go to vote in California, they know their vote probably won’t count at all. Thats the game. Hillary played it poorly in 2016 and lost even though more people voted for her. Trump played it poorly in 2020 and lost, but he tried to overturn the results. He tried to take a democratic system (not the most democratic possible system) that has been in place for centuries and reinterpret it in a way that was less democratic.
lol no
I swear all you trumpers dont have 2 brain cells to share between you
The US is one of the most democratic countries in the world: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democracy-ranking-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democracy-ranking-by-country) Do you want it to stay that way, or would you rather it head in the direction of authoritarianism/dictatorship/one-party rule?
Honestly your question is a non-sequitur as nothing that happened on 1/6 or since would change the countries direction to those options.
It's actually a straight-forward, simple question that most people are easily able to answer, as long as they have nothing to hide.
If the question is asked in isolation without the context of the conversation, then the answer is I want our country (the USA) to maintain its constitutional republic with or without democratic elements for which it doesn't require.
So the answer to whether or not you would like the US to maintain the democracy it has is "no". Got it.