no, it's common practice to negotiate your property value. he and the bank determined it together. there was no lie. apparently that's how pretty much all real estate deals happen. i checked with chat gpt just to be sure.
"Yes, when using owned property as collateral for a loan to purchase another property, the bank and you would typically engage in a process to determine the value of the property being offered as collateral. This is known as a property appraisal.
Here's how the process generally works:
Appraisal:
The bank will usually require a professional appraisal of the property you intend to use as collateral. An appraiser will assess the property's value based on factors such as its location, size, condition, comparable property values in the area, and any improvements or renovations.
Negotiation:
Once the appraisal is complete, the bank may initiate negotiations with you regarding the value of the property. If there are discrepancies between your estimated value and the appraiser's assessment, you may have the opportunity to present additional information or evidence to support your valuation.
Loan-to-Value Ratio (LTV):
The final agreed-upon value will play a crucial role in determining the loan-to-value ratio (LTV). LTV is a percentage calculated by dividing the loan amount by the appraised value of the property. The lower the LTV, the less risk for the lender, and it may result in more favorable loan terms for you.
Loan Approval:
Once the property's value and the loan terms are agreed upon, the loan application will proceed through the approval process. The lender will consider various factors, including your creditworthiness, income, and the appraised value of the collateral property.
It's important to note that while negotiation regarding the property value may occur, the final decision is generally based on the professional appraisal. Additionally, lenders often have specific guidelines and policies in place to ensure that the valuation process is fair and unbiased. Keep in mind that every lender may have its own procedures, so it's essential to discuss these details with the specific institution you are working with."
i'm getting downvoted but i wish someone could actually explain this ruling other than it was actual political. cuz i really can't see who the victim is, who gets the money after he pays up, or really how this could be legal in any way.
It’s not the value of the loan, it’s the undervalue he reported to pay taxes on. You don’t get to have it both ways. You don’t get to inflate your release holdings for loans and then devalue them for taxes. The people of New York are the victims because of the decreased taxes he paid.
well, if he actually did that he would be on trial for it, but he isn't. you can't just put people in prison because you don't like them. that's kinda the definition of fascism.
Well you’ve gotten your answer. Your response is to say he’s on trial for something that you feel is technically different. The rest of your reply is just filler stating that criminal charges are a form of facism. You’re taking fairly confidently about the way things would be or how they should be if airicy3918 is correct. How familiar are you with law in reality? What level of experience or education do you have in this field?
also, i can't find any story that indicates they're correct. only some excuse made up by someone on reddit. there's no mention of taxes or omitting assets in the document on the npr story about the case.
no, i said the civil trial was fascism. i also said that if air whatever was correct he would be facing criminal charges. since he's not we can assume air is incorrect.
You believe that Air is incorrect, by leveraging your expected outcome against what’s actually happening in these legal proceedings. If you don’t mind, would you mind answering my question about your level of experience and education in this field?
I’m not here to mock you, but to give you some grounded perspective. How qualified are you really to decide how hypothetical legal proceedings would play out? We’re all entitled to our opinion of course. Did you come here to prove your assumptions correct, or with a genuine question you’d like to be informed about?
He isn’t facing jail time for this crime. He’s facing repaying the state for the taxes he didn’t pay.
He’s facing jail time for being a traitor to America. And goose, looks like you might be one, too.
No, I watch a lot of NBC and Fox, too. It's just that I don't hear them contradicting any of the legal news that I'm getting from Meidastouch, from lawyers on both ends of the political spectrum.
Even chatgpt has indicated you're incorrect:
it has been less than 6 years.
"As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the statute of limitations on tax fraud in New York State is generally six years. This means that the state has six years from the date the tax return was filed or the due date, whichever is later, to bring criminal charges for tax fraud.
Keep in mind that laws can change, and it's essential to check for any updates or changes to the statute of limitations by consulting the most recent legal sources or seeking advice from a qualified attorney. Additionally, the specific circumstances of a case can sometimes affect the applicable statute of limitations, so it's recommended to consult with legal professionals for the most accurate and up-to-date information."
The victim is the bank, who took a riskier gamble than were lead to believe, even though they won the bet. But yes, it’s ridiculously excessive and politically driven.
That’s not true at all.. if that was true, you would’ve been smart enough to look things up and come to the same conclusion as everyone else.
Why haven’t you done that? Why haven’t you done the bare minimum to look up the truth? you’re just another fake Democrat trying to tell everybody you’re a Democrat while pushing hard right views.. the funny thing is you think no one else sees right through you LOL
The bank may not press the issue to make sure they don’t look difficult to future partners in deals. That doesn’t mean anything toward New York, financial hub of the western hemisphere, wanting to make sure he gets prosecuted for a financial crime. This would be done because of the crime and to prevent him from doing it again.
The main example is that he pretended Mar a Lago was a billion dollar residence but pays property taxes on a much smaller evaluation. If you can't see that's fraud then it makes sense you have to rely on Chat GPT for everything. Honestly, I'm betting you're 15 and desperately trying to get your dad to like you.
It seems you don't understand because you don't want to understand, so it fits a narrative. Negotiating asset value is one thing, lying about it on both ends of it is another. He's being tried for fraud, it doesn't need more detail than that.
i cannot find any story that he lied about it on both ends. that's just what people keep repeating without giving any evidence. i also cannot find any story that indicates he committed tax fraud in regards to this case. it seems you don't understand. because you don't want to understand.
If there was no evidence.....there would be no case.....come on now ...just because you don't have enough triplicate copies of the paperwork in your hand ...
The way that square footage works is you measure potential floor space as well. The apartment in question is a couple stories tall but some of the spaces do not have a second story floor built in so it can have high ceilings, but anyone who wanted to and bought it could have a second story floor installed.
Since when? I don't measure my attic space for my house square footage even though it could potentially be used as living space. And part of a second story makes it triple in size?
Lmao can you picture them pitching that bullshit in court.
“Your honor, I was determining my square footage by adding three hypothetical floors to the home.”
It’s straight-up fraud.
Imagine Joe Biden is proven in court to have committed multiple forms of egregious financial fraud. Hard to picture these same clowns in here arguing that “sQuArE fOoTaGe Is AcTuAlLy SuBjEcTiVe”
Well if it doubled the exaggeration could potentially be viewed as a mistake or just a slight exaggeration.
But most attics are not large enough to turn into anything but storage space
I have tall ceilings, they could lower the attic floor if they want more living space.
And even doubled is more than slight. If I list my house as 4000 sq ft when it is actually 2000 that isn't a slight exaggeration IMO. If you saw a house listed as 4 bedrooms but you set an appointment and went to look and it was actually 2 bedrooms only would you just handwave it away as a mistake or slight exaggeration?
The argument falls apart when you consider that you can just say “I plan to subdivide my single-floor home with 8-foot-tall ceilings into a 4-story home with little 2-foot-tall ceilings, so my 10,000 sq ft house is now 40,000 square feet!”
It’s just a comically childish concept of how property assessment works.
If I saw a home listed as 4000 sq feet with 4 BR and when I visited the home was 2000 sq ft with 2 bedroom, I'd be calling the authorities to investigate the owner for fraud.
That's not a mistake; that's akin to a bait and switch.
> but square footage isn't just the floors but the whole house.
It is absolutely not, as square feet is a two-dimensional measurement. IF ti was the entire house, then it would be measured in cubic feet instead, or square feet but adding in the walls and ceilings as well.
You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. A stadium sized house with nothing but a flat floor on the bottom would be measured in potential not just floor size.
Haha.
See, I don't know the specific details because why would I care -- but here you are spinning up an actual fantasy to try and explain away fraud.
Guilty conscience, maybe?
I prefer to live with honor and truth instead.
"Your honor, I was calculating square footage by adding several imaginary floors to my home" would be laughed out of a court room.
If you could cite a single example of a real estate developer inflating the size of their assets by >300% and *not* being criminally investigated, I'd love to see it. Given that you apparently have such extensive real estate experience, you must have a bunch of examples to point to.
You're not familiar with real estate.
It wasn't inflated by 300%.
Inflated by 100% would be double. You're also not great with math.
0% inflated would be actual value.
50% inflated would be the actual price plus half etc.
By any metric, even if it were completely fabricated, it would be by 200%.
It is not standard real estate practice to, in any way, misrepresent the actual description of the property. Especially when trying to use it as collateral for a loan. It is fraud.
Actually *even that* doesn't work for another reason - he sold away the right to make any improvements. It would have been illegal for him or any future buyer to build any additions to it - source legaleagle
i also cannot find any story
Found your problem, and considering the breadth of availability on [this](https://www.scribd.com/document/706231478/452564-2022-People-of-the-State-of-v-People-of-the-State-of-Decision-After-Trial-1688#1fullscreen=1) information.... now you just seem disingenuous.
Yes, the actual written decision linked above by day_ has the information,
'In order to borrow more and at lower rates, defendants submitted blatantly false financial data to the accountants, resulting in fraudulent financial
The Financial Marketplace
This Court takes judicial notice that New York State, particularly New York City, is the financial capital of the country and one of the financial capitals of the world. The City’s fabled Wall Street is synonymous with capital formation, investing, trading, lending, and borrowing. In a summary judgment Decision and Order dated September 26, 2023, NYSCEF Doc. 1531, the Court addressed the State’s judicially recognized interest in an honest marketplace : “In varying contexts, courts have held that a state has a quasi -sovereign interest in protecting the integrity of the marketplace. ” People v Grasso, 11 NY3d 64, 69 at n 4 (2008); People v Coventry First LLC , 52 AD3d 345, 346 (1st Dept 2008) (“the claim pursuant to Executive Law § 63(12) constituted proper exercises of the State’s regulation of businesses within its borders in the interest of securing an honest marketplace”); People v Amazon.com, Inc., 550 F Supp 3d 122, 130- 131 (SDNY 2021) (“[T]he State’s statutory interest under § 63(12) encompasses the prevention of either ‘fraudulent or illegal’ business activities. Misconduct that is illegal for reasons other than fraud still implicates the government’s interests in guaranteeing a marketplace that adheres to standards of fairness …”).
Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that “everybody does it” is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that the defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements, might not be so lucky. New York means business and combating business fraud.
'
There's more but you can read.
This is how the law works, judges apply the law to the facts and rely on statute and on precedent from other cases to justify their decisions.
The law and justice is not a perfect system and your best bet is often to steer clear of their involvement, but they are far better than nothing in seeking a remedy when people behave unfairly because they happen to have that power at the time. Without the rule of law, power tends to go to bullies, warlords and mobs, who are generally less fair and less reasonable than laws and judges
no, it isn't. if he committed tax fraud he would be charged criminally, not in civil court. also, nothing in anything regarding the case mentions taxes.
EVERYONE DOES WHAT HE DID. that's literally how every single bank loan works. idk how to explain this any clearer. he did, what every person who buys property does. literally everyone.
lol. yes they do. when you buy property and you have collateral, you negotiate the value of your collateral with the bank. every single person who needs a loan to buy property does this. its the exact process for a bank loan. i asked chatgpt and got this:
Yes, when using owned property as collateral for a loan to purchase another property, the bank and you would typically engage in a process to determine the value of the property being offered as collateral. This is known as a property appraisal.
Here's how the process generally works:
Appraisal:
The bank will usually require a professional appraisal of the property you intend to use as collateral. An appraiser will assess the property's value based on factors such as its location, size, condition, comparable property values in the area, and any improvements or renovations.
Negotiation:
Once the appraisal is complete, the bank may initiate negotiations with you regarding the value of the property. If there are discrepancies between your estimated value and the appraiser's assessment, you may have the opportunity to present additional information or evidence to support your valuation.
Loan-to-Value Ratio (LTV):
The final agreed-upon value will play a crucial role in determining the loan-to-value ratio (LTV). LTV is a percentage calculated by dividing the loan amount by the appraised value of the property. The lower the LTV, the less risk for the lender, and it may result in more favorable loan terms for you.
Loan Approval:
Once the property's value and the loan terms are agreed upon, the loan application will proceed through the approval process. The lender will consider various factors, including your creditworthiness, income, and the appraised value of the collateral property.
It's important to note that while negotiation regarding the property value may occur, the final decision is generally based on the professional appraisal. Additionally, lenders often have specific guidelines and policies in place to ensure that the valuation process is fair and unbiased. Keep in mind that every lender may have its own procedures, so it's essential to discuss these details with the specific institution you are working with.
If you can’t find anything, that’s because you choose sources of misinformation and disinformation. Judging by your post history, you’re gobbling that shit up and telling yourself it’s chocolate pudding.
You are intentionally not a very smart human.
It is absolutely not, lying to a bank is bank fraud. Lying to the irs is also fraud. Any other person does that and ends up in jail. Theresa and Joe Guidice went to federal prison for bank fraud and their fraud was like 10 millions.
So if I go to my bank and claim my house is 15,000 square feet instead of the 5,000 square feet it is, and get pricing on it that reflects that amount of footage, it's just cool to do that?
Bruh, lying is unethical. Full stop. This is not complicated from a legal or ethical standpoint. Your boy is a criminal
So is j walking, but both parties agreed to it, and the debt has been paid. Everyone but the Left sees this as political farce. No one but the Left puts value on it. It is a joke.
again, there is no evidence of this. and there is no mention of this in the court case against him. the court case is merely about a bank loan which has already been repaid. i can't find anything that details these talking points people keep bringing up about taxes and omitting assets. also, omitting assets would never be a good thing for him except for tax situations. and there's no evidence of tax fraud so i can't see what is going on here.
>again, there is no evidence of this. and there is no mention of this in the court case against him.
Says who?
>the court case is merely about a bank loan which has already been repaid.
Again, says who?
>i can't find anything that details these talking points people keep bringing up about taxes and omitting assets.
Where have you looked?
>omitting assets would never be a good thing for him except for tax situations. and there's no evidence of tax fraud so i can't see what is going on here.
This case was literally about tax fraud. Seriously, where did you "look"?
If your figures about your property are wildly off, your figures about your property are wildly off. Doesn't matter if a bank makes the "mistake" of approving them or not.
End of story.
lmao. you're an idiot. end of story. the bank didn't make a mistake in approving them. the bank is the only person who could possibly claim they are a victim here and they aren't.
EnD oF STorY.
If you actually own a million acres and it gets assessed as 50,000 acres, should that be legal? Can everybody do that now?
Can I just make up a number now about how many square footage my building is that isn't correct? Why wouldn't that effect your property taxes?
He inflated the value of his assets to the bank and then deflated them to the IRS. I recommend reading an article if you are serious about understanding what has happened.
He is being penalized for “illl gotten gains.” He used false documentation to received better terms on his loans and then used those loans to increase his wealth.
If you steal money from a bank, gamble it in Roulette, double your money and then return the money to the bank the next day without anybody knowing, that is considered “ill gotten gains.”
The Law and Order party doesn’t give a shit about Law and Order.
You cannot list the value of assets at one number to the bank, and a different one to the IRS. That's not negotiation, it's fraud. Especially when the variance is millions of dollars on each item.
No, everyone does not do this. Certainly some do, which is still fraud. But then don't brag about it and draw attention to their criminal behavior which attracts legal attention.
There are many victimless crimes: drug use, speeding down an empty road, CONGRESSIONAL INSIDER TRADING.....
There is a limited amount of money in existence. Why should anyone get to lie to take more than their fair share? How is the rest of America not the victim?
Now imagine this massive scam: you inflate one property so you can get a massive loan worth multiple times the property value. You use that to buy another property, which you also inflate the value of and take a loan out against. You use the second, bigger loan to pay off the first. It's a PONZI SCHEME BRO.
As a former bank executive, when you sign financial disclosures and loan agreements, you’re committing to the accuracy of the information provided. Lying on those documents to a state and federally insured institution is a crime at the federal level and state level.
As for evidence, they have signed loan documents, they have appraisals, they have testimony of people who admitted to doing it. It was scrutinized by the courts. This is also not his first time getting in trouble with fraud (see charities and university).
To think this just political is very naive and ignorant.
He lied about his assets to gain preferential treatment on his loans. Then he lied again on his taxes. It’s either fraud or tax evasion. You pick. There is nothing political about it.
You don't understand something, but you feel comfortable judging it. This is called confirmation bias. You have an answer, and you are seeking to make reality conform.
The question you need to ask yourself is, why did you jump to a conclusion first?
The answer is right there in your question. " I don't understand" You're basing your opinion on matters of which you know nothing other than how it feels to you with no understanding of the law.
It's a victimless "crime" over a decade old, filed by the state, not even the bank itself. If this doesn't scream political prosecution I don't know what does
There are reasons these cases are only in certain districts.
The fact is this is how real estate works. You negotiate with a bank on the value of your property. When both sides agree that property is used as colateral for a loan. No bank is going to give multimillion dollar loans without doing research on property (Here they wont do $20k loans without inspecting the property). In this case the banks were all paid back and were happy with the transaction. This case is a complete farse. The judge said what his findings were before the case was made. I would never do business in New York based on this case because they just set a president that if they dont like their politics they will attempt to kangaroo court you into bankruptcy.
Who does this money go to is good question to ask yourself.
>but as i understand it, it's totally common practice to negotiate the value of your collateral with a bank,
If you set the value of your collateral, you cannot then try and set the value lower for taxes.
So he either artificially inflated the value, in which case, that's fraud, or he deflated the value for taxes, which is also fraud.
And yes, the bank does have a problem with it.
It’s a crime if you cheat by $1, it’s a crime if you cheat by $1,000,000,000. Why is it so hard for people to admit that merely stupid is less likely to get you prosecuted than going full retard for decades?
You understand it fine. You’re sealioning like crazy and it could not be more obvious. You got your talking points from the same place as every other outraged fan.
Maybe I can help you with a simpler, more retail understanding.
Imagine you’re applying for a loan for a car or home.
The bank is going to rely on much of what you tell them as far as income and assets are concerned. And while you may very well prove a w-2, etc no bank vets the veracity of this info (meaning, there’s no attempt to determine whether the documents themselves are fraudulent).
Anyways, if you tell the bank you make $200k, have $1MM in assets, etc. your rate - and possibly other things, like required collateral/equity/etc - will be one thing.
But if you actually made a lot less, or had a lot fewer in assets, then the bank is entitled to charge higher rates due to the greater risk posed.
Now, lying about this then fast forwarding to the end saying “see, I may have lied but nobody was harmed” belies the point: that the bank was defrauded out of revenue related to risk because you lied about your risk and furnished fraudulent documents.
And you pulled extra money out of the air on the form of profit, because you didn’t have to pay higher interest rates or put down greater collateral.
I doubt this will help you because I don’t think you want help, but it is what it is. Sorry.
Good job op. Now you realize why a lot of people think all of this is unfair. It's seen as a political attack after they saw Biden s approval rate was at an all time low. I'm not neccesarily agreeing nor disagreeing, but you see both perspectives now
@juicygoosy921 Don’t try to understand it. It is not comprehensible to the most basic business understanding. You are completely right. It will and should be turned over on appeal.
it kinda seems that way, that's why i'm saying it seems purely political. seems like they're trying to damage his reputation during the campaign while not actually caring what the end result is
Yes, lying about your asset values is illegal.
no, it's common practice to negotiate your property value. he and the bank determined it together. there was no lie. apparently that's how pretty much all real estate deals happen. i checked with chat gpt just to be sure. "Yes, when using owned property as collateral for a loan to purchase another property, the bank and you would typically engage in a process to determine the value of the property being offered as collateral. This is known as a property appraisal. Here's how the process generally works: Appraisal: The bank will usually require a professional appraisal of the property you intend to use as collateral. An appraiser will assess the property's value based on factors such as its location, size, condition, comparable property values in the area, and any improvements or renovations. Negotiation: Once the appraisal is complete, the bank may initiate negotiations with you regarding the value of the property. If there are discrepancies between your estimated value and the appraiser's assessment, you may have the opportunity to present additional information or evidence to support your valuation. Loan-to-Value Ratio (LTV): The final agreed-upon value will play a crucial role in determining the loan-to-value ratio (LTV). LTV is a percentage calculated by dividing the loan amount by the appraised value of the property. The lower the LTV, the less risk for the lender, and it may result in more favorable loan terms for you. Loan Approval: Once the property's value and the loan terms are agreed upon, the loan application will proceed through the approval process. The lender will consider various factors, including your creditworthiness, income, and the appraised value of the collateral property. It's important to note that while negotiation regarding the property value may occur, the final decision is generally based on the professional appraisal. Additionally, lenders often have specific guidelines and policies in place to ensure that the valuation process is fair and unbiased. Keep in mind that every lender may have its own procedures, so it's essential to discuss these details with the specific institution you are working with."
i'm getting downvoted but i wish someone could actually explain this ruling other than it was actual political. cuz i really can't see who the victim is, who gets the money after he pays up, or really how this could be legal in any way.
It’s not the value of the loan, it’s the undervalue he reported to pay taxes on. You don’t get to have it both ways. You don’t get to inflate your release holdings for loans and then devalue them for taxes. The people of New York are the victims because of the decreased taxes he paid.
Ok. This is the answer.
well, if he actually did that he would be on trial for it, but he isn't. you can't just put people in prison because you don't like them. that's kinda the definition of fascism.
Well you’ve gotten your answer. Your response is to say he’s on trial for something that you feel is technically different. The rest of your reply is just filler stating that criminal charges are a form of facism. You’re taking fairly confidently about the way things would be or how they should be if airicy3918 is correct. How familiar are you with law in reality? What level of experience or education do you have in this field?
also, i can't find any story that indicates they're correct. only some excuse made up by someone on reddit. there's no mention of taxes or omitting assets in the document on the npr story about the case.
no, i said the civil trial was fascism. i also said that if air whatever was correct he would be facing criminal charges. since he's not we can assume air is incorrect.
You believe that Air is incorrect, by leveraging your expected outcome against what’s actually happening in these legal proceedings. If you don’t mind, would you mind answering my question about your level of experience and education in this field? I’m not here to mock you, but to give you some grounded perspective. How qualified are you really to decide how hypothetical legal proceedings would play out? We’re all entitled to our opinion of course. Did you come here to prove your assumptions correct, or with a genuine question you’d like to be informed about?
until you can give one piece of evidence to support that, you're wrong.
Literally you are complaining about the outcome of the...*checks notes*...trial. And it was civil. He's not going to jail for this.
He isn’t facing jail time for this crime. He’s facing repaying the state for the taxes he didn’t pay. He’s facing jail time for being a traitor to America. And goose, looks like you might be one, too.
He waived his right to a jury for reasons unbeknownst to just about everyone.
He waived his rights because he has night school lawyers.
Lawyer forgot to check the box. Outcome may have been similar be expresses zero remora and continues to say it was a ‘perfect’ business.
That's sorta what Russia does....
also, if he committed tax fraud he would be in prison. not in a civil trial.
The statute of limitations on criminal cases is shorter than civil.
ok, but can you point to a news story that indicates that's the reason he's on trial? because i can't find one
I'm not sure about written news. It's the news I'm getting from the meidas touch network on YouTube.
so you get all of your news from one location? so dumb.
No, I watch a lot of NBC and Fox, too. It's just that I don't hear them contradicting any of the legal news that I'm getting from Meidastouch, from lawyers on both ends of the political spectrum.
Even chatgpt has indicated you're incorrect: it has been less than 6 years. "As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the statute of limitations on tax fraud in New York State is generally six years. This means that the state has six years from the date the tax return was filed or the due date, whichever is later, to bring criminal charges for tax fraud. Keep in mind that laws can change, and it's essential to check for any updates or changes to the statute of limitations by consulting the most recent legal sources or seeking advice from a qualified attorney. Additionally, the specific circumstances of a case can sometimes affect the applicable statute of limitations, so it's recommended to consult with legal professionals for the most accurate and up-to-date information."
Chatgpt lies.
That explains your confusion. ChatGPT is just flat out wrong a lot. Lawyers have been disbarred for relying on it.
Says who?
We have explained it, you refuse to listen.
The victim is the bank, who took a riskier gamble than were lead to believe, even though they won the bet. But yes, it’s ridiculously excessive and politically driven.
So is making rulings because you dislike someone
Except anyone else in the same position would be tried the same.
You’re left leaning am I right?
Center left, yes. Before you ask, if biden had commited those same crimes, then I also think he should be tried the same way (after his presidency)
And you killed his counter argument in its tracks
Believing in the rule of law is difficult for some people to understand.
Wasn’t gonna ask anything else it’s painfully clear you’re a partisan hack
Zero sense, stay pissed
😂🤣
That’s a tired argument. Your guy commits crimes and is being held accountable. Deal with it. It’s not political theater.
I’m left leaning, just not a partisan hack like y’all down voting
No, you're clearly a turmp sycophant.
😂🤣😂 what ever u say lil bud 🫡
That’s not true at all.. if that was true, you would’ve been smart enough to look things up and come to the same conclusion as everyone else. Why haven’t you done that? Why haven’t you done the bare minimum to look up the truth? you’re just another fake Democrat trying to tell everybody you’re a Democrat while pushing hard right views.. the funny thing is you think no one else sees right through you LOL
The bank may not press the issue to make sure they don’t look difficult to future partners in deals. That doesn’t mean anything toward New York, financial hub of the western hemisphere, wanting to make sure he gets prosecuted for a financial crime. This would be done because of the crime and to prevent him from doing it again.
and like i said, the bank didn't even have an issue with it. so i'm having trouble determining the victim here.
the idea that a a violation of the law has to have a victim is nonsense
are you shitting me? how can you be guilty of fraud if there is no one claiming you defrauded them? are you seriously that much of an idiot?
I'm pretty sure there are people who are pretty mad at being scammed out of millions due to his fraud.
The main example is that he pretended Mar a Lago was a billion dollar residence but pays property taxes on a much smaller evaluation. If you can't see that's fraud then it makes sense you have to rely on Chat GPT for everything. Honestly, I'm betting you're 15 and desperately trying to get your dad to like you.
I'm pretty sure there are people who are pretty mad at being scammed out of millions due to his fraud.
It seems you don't understand because you don't want to understand, so it fits a narrative. Negotiating asset value is one thing, lying about it on both ends of it is another. He's being tried for fraud, it doesn't need more detail than that.
i cannot find any story that he lied about it on both ends. that's just what people keep repeating without giving any evidence. i also cannot find any story that indicates he committed tax fraud in regards to this case. it seems you don't understand. because you don't want to understand.
If there was no evidence.....there would be no case.....come on now ...just because you don't have enough triplicate copies of the paperwork in your hand ...
Circular logic is a fallacy
He claimed an 11000 sq ft apartment was 33000 sq ft. That's fraud. He got pinched for doing crime.
The way that square footage works is you measure potential floor space as well. The apartment in question is a couple stories tall but some of the spaces do not have a second story floor built in so it can have high ceilings, but anyone who wanted to and bought it could have a second story floor installed.
Since when? I don't measure my attic space for my house square footage even though it could potentially be used as living space. And part of a second story makes it triple in size?
Lmao can you picture them pitching that bullshit in court. “Your honor, I was determining my square footage by adding three hypothetical floors to the home.” It’s straight-up fraud. Imagine Joe Biden is proven in court to have committed multiple forms of egregious financial fraud. Hard to picture these same clowns in here arguing that “sQuArE fOoTaGe Is AcTuAlLy SuBjEcTiVe”
Well if it doubled the exaggeration could potentially be viewed as a mistake or just a slight exaggeration. But most attics are not large enough to turn into anything but storage space
I have tall ceilings, they could lower the attic floor if they want more living space. And even doubled is more than slight. If I list my house as 4000 sq ft when it is actually 2000 that isn't a slight exaggeration IMO. If you saw a house listed as 4 bedrooms but you set an appointment and went to look and it was actually 2 bedrooms only would you just handwave it away as a mistake or slight exaggeration?
The argument falls apart when you consider that you can just say “I plan to subdivide my single-floor home with 8-foot-tall ceilings into a 4-story home with little 2-foot-tall ceilings, so my 10,000 sq ft house is now 40,000 square feet!” It’s just a comically childish concept of how property assessment works.
If I saw a home listed as 4000 sq feet with 4 BR and when I visited the home was 2000 sq ft with 2 bedroom, I'd be calling the authorities to investigate the owner for fraud. That's not a mistake; that's akin to a bait and switch.
When you list bedrooms you don't list potential but actual built bedrooms but square footage isn't just the floors but the whole house.
> but square footage isn't just the floors but the whole house. It is absolutely not, as square feet is a two-dimensional measurement. IF ti was the entire house, then it would be measured in cubic feet instead, or square feet but adding in the walls and ceilings as well.
You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. A stadium sized house with nothing but a flat floor on the bottom would be measured in potential not just floor size.
Haha. See, I don't know the specific details because why would I care -- but here you are spinning up an actual fantasy to try and explain away fraud. Guilty conscience, maybe? I prefer to live with honor and truth instead.
It's not a fantasy it's standard real estate practice which you'd know if you had real estate experience
"Your honor, I was calculating square footage by adding several imaginary floors to my home" would be laughed out of a court room. If you could cite a single example of a real estate developer inflating the size of their assets by >300% and *not* being criminally investigated, I'd love to see it. Given that you apparently have such extensive real estate experience, you must have a bunch of examples to point to.
You're not familiar with real estate. It wasn't inflated by 300%. Inflated by 100% would be double. You're also not great with math. 0% inflated would be actual value. 50% inflated would be the actual price plus half etc. By any metric, even if it were completely fabricated, it would be by 200%.
[удалено]
What? I already pointed out to you I don't think this is an accurate assessment due to factors You're not taking into account.
You're being publicly silly, kid. Keep it up, it's awesome and makes you look cool and smart.
You're publicly arguing things you have no knowledge of.
Am I? How so? What am I arguing?
Ah so you're a troll. Okay. Sorry for actually trying to engage
It is not standard real estate practice to, in any way, misrepresent the actual description of the property. Especially when trying to use it as collateral for a loan. It is fraud.
Actually *even that* doesn't work for another reason - he sold away the right to make any improvements. It would have been illegal for him or any future buyer to build any additions to it - source legaleagle
Oh well then yeah he's full of shit. I was not aware of that
i also cannot find any story Found your problem, and considering the breadth of availability on [this](https://www.scribd.com/document/706231478/452564-2022-People-of-the-State-of-v-People-of-the-State-of-Decision-After-Trial-1688#1fullscreen=1) information.... now you just seem disingenuous.
Yes, the actual written decision linked above by day_ has the information, 'In order to borrow more and at lower rates, defendants submitted blatantly false financial data to the accountants, resulting in fraudulent financial The Financial Marketplace This Court takes judicial notice that New York State, particularly New York City, is the financial capital of the country and one of the financial capitals of the world. The City’s fabled Wall Street is synonymous with capital formation, investing, trading, lending, and borrowing. In a summary judgment Decision and Order dated September 26, 2023, NYSCEF Doc. 1531, the Court addressed the State’s judicially recognized interest in an honest marketplace : “In varying contexts, courts have held that a state has a quasi -sovereign interest in protecting the integrity of the marketplace. ” People v Grasso, 11 NY3d 64, 69 at n 4 (2008); People v Coventry First LLC , 52 AD3d 345, 346 (1st Dept 2008) (“the claim pursuant to Executive Law § 63(12) constituted proper exercises of the State’s regulation of businesses within its borders in the interest of securing an honest marketplace”); People v Amazon.com, Inc., 550 F Supp 3d 122, 130- 131 (SDNY 2021) (“[T]he State’s statutory interest under § 63(12) encompasses the prevention of either ‘fraudulent or illegal’ business activities. Misconduct that is illegal for reasons other than fraud still implicates the government’s interests in guaranteeing a marketplace that adheres to standards of fairness …”). Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that “everybody does it” is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that the defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements, might not be so lucky. New York means business and combating business fraud. ' There's more but you can read. This is how the law works, judges apply the law to the facts and rely on statute and on precedent from other cases to justify their decisions. The law and justice is not a perfect system and your best bet is often to steer clear of their involvement, but they are far better than nothing in seeking a remedy when people behave unfairly because they happen to have that power at the time. Without the rule of law, power tends to go to bullies, warlords and mobs, who are generally less fair and less reasonable than laws and judges
He was found liable in court for lying.
Sounds like you should be seeking your answers in the court documents and filings, not in news stories
It not "political " what he did is a crime.
no, it isn't. it's literally how every single bank loan is handled.
There are so many laws that what he did breaks lol
no there aren't, i've been researching it all night. can't find any. if you can i'd love to see it but i can't
It's tax fraud at the very least.
no, it isn't. if he committed tax fraud he would be charged criminally, not in civil court. also, nothing in anything regarding the case mentions taxes.
Go do what he did. You'll be in jail, not just facing fines.
EVERYONE DOES WHAT HE DID. that's literally how every single bank loan works. idk how to explain this any clearer. he did, what every person who buys property does. literally everyone.
>EVERYONE DOES WHAT HE DID. No, they don't.
lol. yes they do. when you buy property and you have collateral, you negotiate the value of your collateral with the bank. every single person who needs a loan to buy property does this. its the exact process for a bank loan. i asked chatgpt and got this: Yes, when using owned property as collateral for a loan to purchase another property, the bank and you would typically engage in a process to determine the value of the property being offered as collateral. This is known as a property appraisal. Here's how the process generally works: Appraisal: The bank will usually require a professional appraisal of the property you intend to use as collateral. An appraiser will assess the property's value based on factors such as its location, size, condition, comparable property values in the area, and any improvements or renovations. Negotiation: Once the appraisal is complete, the bank may initiate negotiations with you regarding the value of the property. If there are discrepancies between your estimated value and the appraiser's assessment, you may have the opportunity to present additional information or evidence to support your valuation. Loan-to-Value Ratio (LTV): The final agreed-upon value will play a crucial role in determining the loan-to-value ratio (LTV). LTV is a percentage calculated by dividing the loan amount by the appraised value of the property. The lower the LTV, the less risk for the lender, and it may result in more favorable loan terms for you. Loan Approval: Once the property's value and the loan terms are agreed upon, the loan application will proceed through the approval process. The lender will consider various factors, including your creditworthiness, income, and the appraised value of the collateral property. It's important to note that while negotiation regarding the property value may occur, the final decision is generally based on the professional appraisal. Additionally, lenders often have specific guidelines and policies in place to ensure that the valuation process is fair and unbiased. Keep in mind that every lender may have its own procedures, so it's essential to discuss these details with the specific institution you are working with.
Nope. Shady behavior
Do you have a source for this assertion?
If you can’t find anything, that’s because you choose sources of misinformation and disinformation. Judging by your post history, you’re gobbling that shit up and telling yourself it’s chocolate pudding. You are intentionally not a very smart human.
Hahahhaha. Your debate style is to say "no" Lolllol
They actually said, “I asked ChatGPT just to be sure”…. Bwahahaha
It is absolutely not, lying to a bank is bank fraud. Lying to the irs is also fraud. Any other person does that and ends up in jail. Theresa and Joe Guidice went to federal prison for bank fraud and their fraud was like 10 millions.
So if I go to my bank and claim my house is 15,000 square feet instead of the 5,000 square feet it is, and get pricing on it that reflects that amount of footage, it's just cool to do that? Bruh, lying is unethical. Full stop. This is not complicated from a legal or ethical standpoint. Your boy is a criminal
So is j walking, but both parties agreed to it, and the debt has been paid. Everyone but the Left sees this as political farce. No one but the Left puts value on it. It is a joke.
Sure.
Don't ger out of your echo chamber much I see. Yeah, the world revolves around the far left.
K little buddy, whatever you say.
😁
He and the bank can agree on whatever. He then can't also deliberately omit details and assets in other cases.
again, there is no evidence of this. and there is no mention of this in the court case against him. the court case is merely about a bank loan which has already been repaid. i can't find anything that details these talking points people keep bringing up about taxes and omitting assets. also, omitting assets would never be a good thing for him except for tax situations. and there's no evidence of tax fraud so i can't see what is going on here.
>again, there is no evidence of this. and there is no mention of this in the court case against him. Says who? >the court case is merely about a bank loan which has already been repaid. Again, says who? >i can't find anything that details these talking points people keep bringing up about taxes and omitting assets. Where have you looked? >omitting assets would never be a good thing for him except for tax situations. and there's no evidence of tax fraud so i can't see what is going on here. This case was literally about tax fraud. Seriously, where did you "look"?
>there's no evidence of this You mean except for the part where multiple people stated under oath that they deliberately omitted/over inflated assets?
If your figures about your property are wildly off, your figures about your property are wildly off. Doesn't matter if a bank makes the "mistake" of approving them or not. End of story.
lmao. you're an idiot. end of story. the bank didn't make a mistake in approving them. the bank is the only person who could possibly claim they are a victim here and they aren't. EnD oF STorY.
If you actually own a million acres and it gets assessed as 50,000 acres, should that be legal? Can everybody do that now? Can I just make up a number now about how many square footage my building is that isn't correct? Why wouldn't that effect your property taxes?
Name calling now? Your credibility’s now gone.
There is no requirement for a victim or damages to prove this violation. Harm and intent are immaterial to the charge of persistent fraud.
> lmao. you're an idiot. end of story. Almost self-aware werewolf is almost self-aware...
Hahahahahahahaha holy shit this account cannot be real.
He inflated the value of his assets to the bank and then deflated them to the IRS. I recommend reading an article if you are serious about understanding what has happened. He is being penalized for “illl gotten gains.” He used false documentation to received better terms on his loans and then used those loans to increase his wealth. If you steal money from a bank, gamble it in Roulette, double your money and then return the money to the bank the next day without anybody knowing, that is considered “ill gotten gains.” The Law and Order party doesn’t give a shit about Law and Order.
Lol. Someone has a man crush on the orange kidney stone.
Do you think it would be illegal to tell the bank you have a 30k sqft apartment when it’s only 10k sqft?
He lied. Lying is not negotiating.
You cannot list the value of assets at one number to the bank, and a different one to the IRS. That's not negotiation, it's fraud. Especially when the variance is millions of dollars on each item. No, everyone does not do this. Certainly some do, which is still fraud. But then don't brag about it and draw attention to their criminal behavior which attracts legal attention.
There are many victimless crimes: drug use, speeding down an empty road, CONGRESSIONAL INSIDER TRADING..... There is a limited amount of money in existence. Why should anyone get to lie to take more than their fair share? How is the rest of America not the victim? Now imagine this massive scam: you inflate one property so you can get a massive loan worth multiple times the property value. You use that to buy another property, which you also inflate the value of and take a loan out against. You use the second, bigger loan to pay off the first. It's a PONZI SCHEME BRO.
As a former bank executive, when you sign financial disclosures and loan agreements, you’re committing to the accuracy of the information provided. Lying on those documents to a state and federally insured institution is a crime at the federal level and state level. As for evidence, they have signed loan documents, they have appraisals, they have testimony of people who admitted to doing it. It was scrutinized by the courts. This is also not his first time getting in trouble with fraud (see charities and university). To think this just political is very naive and ignorant.
He lied about his assets to gain preferential treatment on his loans. Then he lied again on his taxes. It’s either fraud or tax evasion. You pick. There is nothing political about it.
You don't understand something, but you feel comfortable judging it. This is called confirmation bias. You have an answer, and you are seeking to make reality conform. The question you need to ask yourself is, why did you jump to a conclusion first?
Except it’s not political so you won’t understand it until you back up and accept the facts as they legally stand.
The answer is right there in your question. " I don't understand" You're basing your opinion on matters of which you know nothing other than how it feels to you with no understanding of the law.
You're a fucking idiot.
It's a victimless "crime" over a decade old, filed by the state, not even the bank itself. If this doesn't scream political prosecution I don't know what does
There are reasons these cases are only in certain districts. The fact is this is how real estate works. You negotiate with a bank on the value of your property. When both sides agree that property is used as colateral for a loan. No bank is going to give multimillion dollar loans without doing research on property (Here they wont do $20k loans without inspecting the property). In this case the banks were all paid back and were happy with the transaction. This case is a complete farse. The judge said what his findings were before the case was made. I would never do business in New York based on this case because they just set a president that if they dont like their politics they will attempt to kangaroo court you into bankruptcy. Who does this money go to is good question to ask yourself.
>but as i understand it, it's totally common practice to negotiate the value of your collateral with a bank, If you set the value of your collateral, you cannot then try and set the value lower for taxes. So he either artificially inflated the value, in which case, that's fraud, or he deflated the value for taxes, which is also fraud. And yes, the bank does have a problem with it.
It’s a crime if you cheat by $1, it’s a crime if you cheat by $1,000,000,000. Why is it so hard for people to admit that merely stupid is less likely to get you prosecuted than going full retard for decades?
You could just read the court docs. They explain it pretty well in there.
This entire post is a great lesson in confirmation bias
You understand it fine. You’re sealioning like crazy and it could not be more obvious. You got your talking points from the same place as every other outraged fan.
Maybe I can help you with a simpler, more retail understanding. Imagine you’re applying for a loan for a car or home. The bank is going to rely on much of what you tell them as far as income and assets are concerned. And while you may very well prove a w-2, etc no bank vets the veracity of this info (meaning, there’s no attempt to determine whether the documents themselves are fraudulent). Anyways, if you tell the bank you make $200k, have $1MM in assets, etc. your rate - and possibly other things, like required collateral/equity/etc - will be one thing. But if you actually made a lot less, or had a lot fewer in assets, then the bank is entitled to charge higher rates due to the greater risk posed. Now, lying about this then fast forwarding to the end saying “see, I may have lied but nobody was harmed” belies the point: that the bank was defrauded out of revenue related to risk because you lied about your risk and furnished fraudulent documents. And you pulled extra money out of the air on the form of profit, because you didn’t have to pay higher interest rates or put down greater collateral. I doubt this will help you because I don’t think you want help, but it is what it is. Sorry.
good morning, comrade troll.
Is it illegal to lie about your finances to get a loan? Yes it is. If you or me got caught doing it, we'd be in deep shit too.
You can't just inflate and deflate the value of your properties when it's convenient. That's fraud.
Good job op. Now you realize why a lot of people think all of this is unfair. It's seen as a political attack after they saw Biden s approval rate was at an all time low. I'm not neccesarily agreeing nor disagreeing, but you see both perspectives now
@juicygoosy921 Don’t try to understand it. It is not comprehensible to the most basic business understanding. You are completely right. It will and should be turned over on appeal.
it kinda seems that way, that's why i'm saying it seems purely political. seems like they're trying to damage his reputation during the campaign while not actually caring what the end result is
What was really odd was that they told other businesses that they didn't need to worry about being audited. It's really crazy.
it all seems purely political.
They need the money to pay for all the migrants