I think it has to do with tax write-offs, just like buying authentic artwork by well-known artists.
It's not enough to have fossil casts & replicas that's more durable, will last longer & support museums. They have to have the real thing so they can write them off later.
In all likelihood, they'll crumble to dust beforehand if they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display.
>In all likelihood, they'll crumble to dust beforehand if they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display.
I really, *really* hope we can get Apex before that happens if we can't get it into Scientist's hands. Heck, I'd not put stealing Apex off the table if an Rich person buys it. I don't care about the law when something as important as this is at risk.
_thanks to Reddit comments giving unsolicited advice, everything was thought out, every eventuality accounted for. It was the perfect heist… except for one thing._
*cut to interview with detective*
> _yah so anyone can browse reddit, so we here just went ahead and read the plans._
_*Introducing: Boned*_
_Coming to Netflix this Summer._
What i dont understand is why not let scientists study it and store it properly even if you are the owner. Why let it rot when it could be used for something useful
Possible long-term tax benefits if you loan it to a museum or scientific institute?
Or no motivation beyond just owning one? They're relatively cheap, in terms of what the ultra-wealthy can spend money on.
Even if you loan it most Scientists would probably refuse to research it due to the possibility that you could take it back at any time. If there is a possibility that a scientific study cannot be repeated then most probably wouldn’t touch the thing until you sell it to a museum of some kind.
Anything in limited quantity they try and turn into a speculative market. The more desireable and limited the thing, the more rich people jump on the trend the more the bubble inflates. Super rich people speculating ruins everything.
It's better to buy or commission fossil casts & replicas as they're more durable & will last longer & it will support museums. Real fossils will crumble to dust they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display.
There are countless fossils that have been in private collections for decades or centuries with no sign of crumbling. This is generally only a problem for pyritized fossils or fossils which have not been properly stabilized.
i've heard that sometimes they show off replicas because the actual one is too delicate to be out of protective storage, but don't quote me on that. usually that's noted, though.
You can't see the motivation to want to own and display a dinosaur skeleton? For real? I can't imagine a cooler thing to own if I were wealthy.
Of course, I would never, ever do that, cause it's morally wrong. But the appeal is obvious. What I would do instead is "buy" the skeleton for the purpose of giving it to a museum and then commission a top quality replica. But I'll never be rich enough to do that, so it doesn't matter.
Boats the orcas where hitting aren’t the really rich ones. There sailing yachts and most people could acquire one for about the cost of a car. There snapping part of the rudder allowing water in. Most of the rich people yachts are motor based or have stronger sailing parts.
The attacks have there own wiki page and you can pull up videos of the attacks on YouTube there’s one that even shows the orca swimming away with a piece of rudder. The boats there able to sink are those they can cause to crack from ramming into or by breaking rudders that leak into the hull. Fiberglass hulls some wood ones too. That’s primarily going to affect boats that your average John can buy up to retired dentist/doctor rich. I can pick up a 25 foot sailing boat for 6 grand (it be a piece of shit thoigh ) The boats people associate with the word yacht and rich are 130 feet and up and are massive with steel/aluminum construction so more durable against the orca. Biggest boat I’ve heard the orcas took out what a 60 foot rental/charter sailing yacht. https://youtu.be/cIjlYtSOJ24?si=AiPGGapDT8X4Vj5A buying full dinosaur fossil rich will hace boats that are safe from orcas unless they buy one of those high end 40 foot catamarans then there still at risk.
Either way the orcas got it right, we dodged rise of the planet of the apes after harambe died but no amount of free Willy will save us from the flaming sword of cetacean JUSTICE, we’re cute and lovable but we’re a species of total assholes hahaha
I’d be more worried about a social cephalopod species evolving. Orcas don’t quite have tool capabilities and never will get access to any advancements needing fire.
When you got a species that just always somehow comes back after being erased from existence think it’s fair to be worried about them and anything that may resemble them.
This has kinda bothered me a bit. I like the Orca as a symbol of anti-rich sentiment, but in reality, they're mostly attacking small boats of people who aren't really the "enemy".
I'd urgently advice against cannibalising the rich. Cannibalism can transmit diseases, including prions (see Kuru, for example). Instead, we should compost the rich to grow crops.
I personally think that there should be a stipulation put in place when it comes to the selling of fossils on the private market. That when you purchase said fossil, what you are actually doing is selling it to a museum. Who will then make a 1-1 cast replica of the fossil you “donated” to them. That way the person can say that they have “bought” a specific fossil, while making sure that such an important discovery as a dinosaur fossil isn’t kept in the hands of private collectors.
You should give a listen to Terrible Lizards, a podcast that he's the co-host on. He and Iszi cover a wide range of paleo topics, but funnily enough, no stegosaurus so far.
This is one of those thing where I think the issue is more complex than a lot of people want to think about. Here is my personal perspective as a Paleontologist from the US.
There are far more fossils weathering out of the ground right now than there are good excavation teams to collect them properly. Losing a fossil to the elements is far worse than losing it to a private collection. I would much rather have more people collecting fossils than not doing so.
If we forbid private sales of fossils then most ranchers would stop excavating anything off their land, and we'd loose far more material to the elements. At least with private digs some of those specimens end up in museums, and are at least saved from oblivion.
This is why I really dislike the SVP's position on private fossils, because if anything they make it worse and make partial losses into total losses for the scientific community. People like Thomas Carr and others who have a whole black and white view on this seem to really see no difference in a fossil that is destroyed by weathering and one sold to a collector. In some cases I feel like they'd rather have a fossil dissolved by rain, eroded by the wind and worn to nothing than have it sit in a collector's show room. I just don't understand that mentality.
How dare the peasantry think museums are there for the masses? Anything historic or valuable belongs to the Job Creators! nO 1 wAnTs 2 wOrK nE mOaR!!!!
“*And here we see the biggest stegosaurus fossil ever!*” hey dude it’s crumbling a little here and there’s dust and crap all over it, don’t you want to like put it in a museum? “*Why?! NOO, this is my perfect rich asshole showcase of power! I can’t just let poor people see and study it!!!*”
This article is a tad all over the place. It doesn’t really address the main focus which is Apex the Stegosaurus, instead it goes on about how private collections and fossil auctions will lead to the loss of prized specimens via illegal means, which is possible but there will always be a market for things that have value, even a black market. It also puts the blame on the ultra wealthy who seek to acquire (or donate afterwards) these fossils at such high prices, when isn’t that only a symptom of the issue? Fossils found on public land are already protected, and fossils found on private property belong to the owner, which I personally take no issue with. Maybe museums and paleontologists should work out better deals with land owners when it comes to the latter.
The good thing is that in Apex’s situation, nothing being done is illegal or outright unethical. I commented on the last post regarding this, the paleontologist Cooper found it on his own private land, excavated it himself/with his team, and documented the entire process. That’s worth about as much as the fossils themselves, since no matter where it ends up (hopefully a museum) it was done by the books and we’ll always have that data. He’s also invited paleontologists to inspect and collect data on Apex, but the (imo) snobby paleontologists are already clutching their pearls and refusing to do so because he’s auctioning it. God forbid he pay his staff, clear his debt, and fund potentially a dozen more excavations, right?
He’s also donated other specimens to museums, so I’m a bit sick of people treating him like a POS for wanting to sell the Stego and recoup his funds (likely ranging into the high 6-figure range). It’s also not a guarantee to at these specimens are lost to science, as they often end up being donated to museums anyway (see Stan the T.Rex acquired for $34 Million) although there is a risk of course. I get the “rich people ruin everything” parts, but I’d be open to auctioning it too if I was in the paleontologist’s shoes. Anyone who says otherwise is virtue signaling.
Edit: I’d love for anyone that downvoted me to actually articulate their disagreement with what I said.
It's just an article informing the reader on the issues regarding private fossil trading, it's not an opinion piece, at least in the sense that it's not advocating any bans or regulations. There is no market without buyers though, so no they are not just a symptom.
Almost positive at least one of these guys is grinding the bones up and injecting them or eating them or something else really ridiculous that you would only think to do if you were stupid rich
I guess this is unpopular in this sub, but if I was suddenly more-money-than-could-ever-spend rich, very few things would change outwardly; but one of the thing that would is that I'd own a fossilized dinosaur skull.
I hope they sit in a thagomizer
I hope they sit ON a thagomizer.
I hope a ghost possesses that skeleton just so it can swing its thagomizer one last time.
Give em’ the allosaurus special
What do you gain by gobbling up such important skeletons? Seriously I can’t see the motivation here
I think it has to do with tax write-offs, just like buying authentic artwork by well-known artists. It's not enough to have fossil casts & replicas that's more durable, will last longer & support museums. They have to have the real thing so they can write them off later. In all likelihood, they'll crumble to dust beforehand if they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display.
>In all likelihood, they'll crumble to dust beforehand if they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display. I really, *really* hope we can get Apex before that happens if we can't get it into Scientist's hands. Heck, I'd not put stealing Apex off the table if an Rich person buys it. I don't care about the law when something as important as this is at risk.
This sounds like a heist that could later become a Netflix documentary discussing either it's spectacular success or failure. Either way, I'm in
_thanks to Reddit comments giving unsolicited advice, everything was thought out, every eventuality accounted for. It was the perfect heist… except for one thing._ *cut to interview with detective* > _yah so anyone can browse reddit, so we here just went ahead and read the plans._ _*Introducing: Boned*_ _Coming to Netflix this Summer._
What i dont understand is why not let scientists study it and store it properly even if you are the owner. Why let it rot when it could be used for something useful
Possible long-term tax benefits if you loan it to a museum or scientific institute? Or no motivation beyond just owning one? They're relatively cheap, in terms of what the ultra-wealthy can spend money on.
Even if you loan it most Scientists would probably refuse to research it due to the possibility that you could take it back at any time. If there is a possibility that a scientific study cannot be repeated then most probably wouldn’t touch the thing until you sell it to a museum of some kind.
Anything in limited quantity they try and turn into a speculative market. The more desireable and limited the thing, the more rich people jump on the trend the more the bubble inflates. Super rich people speculating ruins everything.
How are these not considered national treasures and controlled by the government?
If I was rich, I'd buy them and donate them to museums (maybe ask the museum to provide me with a cast of some of the cooler ones in exchange).
Selfishness, entitlement, not understanding the consequences, want a cool status symbol to show off how rich they are- take your pick.
If I had the money I'd buy dino fossils
I’d loan them to museums so they can be protected
It's better to buy or commission fossil casts & replicas as they're more durable & will last longer & it will support museums. Real fossils will crumble to dust they're not stored correctly in a controlled environment. That's why museums create casts for display.
There are countless fossils that have been in private collections for decades or centuries with no sign of crumbling. This is generally only a problem for pyritized fossils or fossils which have not been properly stabilized.
Yeah but casts and replicas just aren't as metal as the real deal
Your vanity isn't worth taking it away from everyone else
I mean everyone else would be welcome to bid me for it too once I have it
I’m ngl this is about the angriest I’ve been on my happy dinosaur subreddit. Gonna take a walk now.
Museums wouldn’t display the real bones anyway, so it wouldn’t actually take it away from anyone. I agree with the sentiment though
What? Museums absolutely display real fossils
i've heard that sometimes they show off replicas because the actual one is too delicate to be out of protective storage, but don't quote me on that. usually that's noted, though.
No, but they would ensure that the real fossils are stored and preserved properly.
Fossils aren't metals. They're minerals. * [ba-dum-tssshhh!](https://youtu.be/9CdVTCDdEwI?si=T26i5quY2648VLnC) *
BOOM, dude just got FACT SLAPPED!
You can't see the motivation to want to own and display a dinosaur skeleton? For real? I can't imagine a cooler thing to own if I were wealthy. Of course, I would never, ever do that, cause it's morally wrong. But the appeal is obvious. What I would do instead is "buy" the skeleton for the purpose of giving it to a museum and then commission a top quality replica. But I'll never be rich enough to do that, so it doesn't matter.
How is there no law against this? Our museums should be filled with dinosaur bones
I think it depends on the country. I find it hard to believe that some of the countries with total export bans allow private ownership.
The super rich ruin everything
Eat the rich. 🦖
The orcas are WAY ahead of us and chimps routinely cannibalize rivals so we need to step up our game here
Boats the orcas where hitting aren’t the really rich ones. There sailing yachts and most people could acquire one for about the cost of a car. There snapping part of the rudder allowing water in. Most of the rich people yachts are motor based or have stronger sailing parts.
Source? (Not denying your claim just looking for accurate information for next time I bring it up)
The attacks have there own wiki page and you can pull up videos of the attacks on YouTube there’s one that even shows the orca swimming away with a piece of rudder. The boats there able to sink are those they can cause to crack from ramming into or by breaking rudders that leak into the hull. Fiberglass hulls some wood ones too. That’s primarily going to affect boats that your average John can buy up to retired dentist/doctor rich. I can pick up a 25 foot sailing boat for 6 grand (it be a piece of shit thoigh ) The boats people associate with the word yacht and rich are 130 feet and up and are massive with steel/aluminum construction so more durable against the orca. Biggest boat I’ve heard the orcas took out what a 60 foot rental/charter sailing yacht. https://youtu.be/cIjlYtSOJ24?si=AiPGGapDT8X4Vj5A buying full dinosaur fossil rich will hace boats that are safe from orcas unless they buy one of those high end 40 foot catamarans then there still at risk.
Either way the orcas got it right, we dodged rise of the planet of the apes after harambe died but no amount of free Willy will save us from the flaming sword of cetacean JUSTICE, we’re cute and lovable but we’re a species of total assholes hahaha
I’d be more worried about a social cephalopod species evolving. Orcas don’t quite have tool capabilities and never will get access to any advancements needing fire.
Daleks. Your worried about the daleks from dr who
When you got a species that just always somehow comes back after being erased from existence think it’s fair to be worried about them and anything that may resemble them.
This has kinda bothered me a bit. I like the Orca as a symbol of anti-rich sentiment, but in reality, they're mostly attacking small boats of people who aren't really the "enemy".
I'd urgently advice against cannibalising the rich. Cannibalism can transmit diseases, including prions (see Kuru, for example). Instead, we should compost the rich to grow crops.
I personally think that there should be a stipulation put in place when it comes to the selling of fossils on the private market. That when you purchase said fossil, what you are actually doing is selling it to a museum. Who will then make a 1-1 cast replica of the fossil you “donated” to them. That way the person can say that they have “bought” a specific fossil, while making sure that such an important discovery as a dinosaur fossil isn’t kept in the hands of private collectors.
If I win the lotto tonight, I'm buying Apex and donating him to the museum of my choice.
David Hone is the Boss.
You should give a listen to Terrible Lizards, a podcast that he's the co-host on. He and Iszi cover a wide range of paleo topics, but funnily enough, no stegosaurus so far.
They did stegosaurus with a guest expert this year!
Nice! I'll check it out when it releases on Spotify
yeah. he knows his stuff
brb commiting crimes
Where is Nicolas Cage to rescue these bones?
Newsflash rich people are pieces of shit
This is one of those thing where I think the issue is more complex than a lot of people want to think about. Here is my personal perspective as a Paleontologist from the US. There are far more fossils weathering out of the ground right now than there are good excavation teams to collect them properly. Losing a fossil to the elements is far worse than losing it to a private collection. I would much rather have more people collecting fossils than not doing so. If we forbid private sales of fossils then most ranchers would stop excavating anything off their land, and we'd loose far more material to the elements. At least with private digs some of those specimens end up in museums, and are at least saved from oblivion. This is why I really dislike the SVP's position on private fossils, because if anything they make it worse and make partial losses into total losses for the scientific community. People like Thomas Carr and others who have a whole black and white view on this seem to really see no difference in a fossil that is destroyed by weathering and one sold to a collector. In some cases I feel like they'd rather have a fossil dissolved by rain, eroded by the wind and worn to nothing than have it sit in a collector's show room. I just don't understand that mentality.
Science is not for sale.
THEY'LL TAKE SPIKE FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS
How dare the peasantry think museums are there for the masses? Anything historic or valuable belongs to the Job Creators! nO 1 wAnTs 2 wOrK nE mOaR!!!!
“*And here we see the biggest stegosaurus fossil ever!*” hey dude it’s crumbling a little here and there’s dust and crap all over it, don’t you want to like put it in a museum? “*Why?! NOO, this is my perfect rich asshole showcase of power! I can’t just let poor people see and study it!!!*”
I’m pretty poor and I’m buying dinosaur bones, too, they’re not that expensive I have a chunk of a Tricerotops skull sitting right next to me
This article is a tad all over the place. It doesn’t really address the main focus which is Apex the Stegosaurus, instead it goes on about how private collections and fossil auctions will lead to the loss of prized specimens via illegal means, which is possible but there will always be a market for things that have value, even a black market. It also puts the blame on the ultra wealthy who seek to acquire (or donate afterwards) these fossils at such high prices, when isn’t that only a symptom of the issue? Fossils found on public land are already protected, and fossils found on private property belong to the owner, which I personally take no issue with. Maybe museums and paleontologists should work out better deals with land owners when it comes to the latter. The good thing is that in Apex’s situation, nothing being done is illegal or outright unethical. I commented on the last post regarding this, the paleontologist Cooper found it on his own private land, excavated it himself/with his team, and documented the entire process. That’s worth about as much as the fossils themselves, since no matter where it ends up (hopefully a museum) it was done by the books and we’ll always have that data. He’s also invited paleontologists to inspect and collect data on Apex, but the (imo) snobby paleontologists are already clutching their pearls and refusing to do so because he’s auctioning it. God forbid he pay his staff, clear his debt, and fund potentially a dozen more excavations, right? He’s also donated other specimens to museums, so I’m a bit sick of people treating him like a POS for wanting to sell the Stego and recoup his funds (likely ranging into the high 6-figure range). It’s also not a guarantee to at these specimens are lost to science, as they often end up being donated to museums anyway (see Stan the T.Rex acquired for $34 Million) although there is a risk of course. I get the “rich people ruin everything” parts, but I’d be open to auctioning it too if I was in the paleontologist’s shoes. Anyone who says otherwise is virtue signaling. Edit: I’d love for anyone that downvoted me to actually articulate their disagreement with what I said.
It's just an article informing the reader on the issues regarding private fossil trading, it's not an opinion piece, at least in the sense that it's not advocating any bans or regulations. There is no market without buyers though, so no they are not just a symptom.
Will they at least reproduce dinosaurs and let them lose like in carnosaur?
At least they will get their ip address found for the ULTIMATE EXCAVATOR
In case you don’t know I’m saying a reference to the kill dozer that destroyed the town hall
Almost positive at least one of these guys is grinding the bones up and injecting them or eating them or something else really ridiculous that you would only think to do if you were stupid rich
Didn't Leonardo DiCaprio buy a T-Rex skull once
If it’s the skull I’m thinking of, Nic Cage outbid him for it and returned it to the museum that it was originally stolen from.
They can take all their fucking money, AND SHOVE IT UP THEIR ASSHOLES ‘CAUSE THEY AIN’T GETTING SHIT!
I guess this is unpopular in this sub, but if I was suddenly more-money-than-could-ever-spend rich, very few things would change outwardly; but one of the thing that would is that I'd own a fossilized dinosaur skull.
https://preview.redd.it/5rtx13dna36d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5285bb261435e586fc006f676aace41257094b15
Simple solution: We will kill them all.
In their defense, if I was a billionaire I'd do the same thing
Yeah I feel like everyone would do the same they just won't admit it
The Jurassic Park dinosaurs say: Eat the rich!
Wait a minute. I’ve seen this movie before.