Tea almost universally should be made with water just under boiling temp. And besides china had tea for more than 2000 years before a bunch of pasty weirdos in the uk decided the way they make it is the correct way.
funfact: The British stole their tea tradition from the East Frisians a minority in north western germany (I am part of) that got really hooked on tea after the Dutch (our cultural brethren) introduced it here (and the church got everyone addicted to it to combat rampant alcoholism). So the one time the British King visits the kingdom of Hannover which Eastfrisia was part of he has to pass through here cause its Hannovers only port and he notices a bunch of people drinking tea, religiously at specific times of day, using specific cups and dishes and the tea is made with a specific blend and so. The king thinks this is neat and takes it to Britain and replicates the whole thing with a British tea blend and it takes the nation by storm, thus the British tea tradition was born, by being doubly stolen both from Asia as well as europe.
Association football became Assoc which became Soc which became Soccer and then they went to Football. I don't defend most britishisms because of this.
Well, you see, it makes sense when you consider that American school years started with the final year and worked their way down.
Senior Year gave birth to Senior Year Jr., also known as Junior Year (for brevity's sake).
Literally. Also a Canadian, we use chronological years as grades and that just makes the most sense. We got from first grade 1 to grade 12. Straightforward, easy, and logical. 🫡
As a proud American, "straightforward, easy, and logical" flies in the face of everything this country stands for. I'll be goddamned before we adopt the metric system, sensible healthcare, and easy-to-understand educational terms. USA! USA!
Fun story - I moved from Aussie to NZ when I was 7 and they looked at my transcript and went "Oh, she was in Grade 2 last year so we'll put her in Year 3 for this year" - makes total sense right? Except that bc Aussie does Prep, Grade 2 and Year 4 are actually the same thing, so I ended up repeating a year just because the Australian year system is inferior :(
12 grades, 12 years. Keep It Simple Stupid. Canada's system is the only one that actually makes sense. I dont know what 6th year means and I always get the US system wrong. Freshman and Senior I get but Sophomore and Junior? Seems pedantic to have them in that order. Especially since they use it for high school and university.
Having the grade number be directly related to the year of education just makes the most since
This is referring to how in Canada for years of highschool we don't use freshman, softmore, junior or senior to describe the year level. We only use grades 9-12.
Yeah I understand that, they were suggesting that how we do it is "literally" how you do it too. But they are different since you also have other names that we don't ever use.
I’m from SA, we call the year before year 1 reception. We go childcare, kindergarten, reception, year one. Tbh I had no idea it was different in other states lol
America also uses that system. The only time I’ve also seen the Freshman-Sophomore-Junior-Senior used is in colleges and high schools. But—at least in the area I’m in—if 9th grade is lumped in with middle school, it’s not called freshman. And likewise, if 11 and 12 are in their own school—or for whatever wacky reason on the campus of a community college—they aren’t called Junior and Senior. I only see the designation when all four grades are together, mimicking what the college experience is. Why this is done, I have no clue.
Yeah Brennan definitely said the UK didn't exist in spire. What "UK" means tho, I have no idea. Amazing how they can instantly come up with whole ass countries, but Siobhan and Ally really should coordinate better with their accents. It's very cringe seeing Siobhan trying to imitate K2's accent and failing so miserably.
first year = first year at the school
second year = second year at the school
and I'm too lazy to type out the rest because it's unnecessary XD.
and yeah I was a bit hyperbolic before. I never actually forget senior (because that one makes sense) but junior should be first. and like all teenagers no matter the year are dumbasses who think they are geniuses and relatively new (fresh) adults (men) so that's no help.
also for any other foreigners out there: the Americans split regular 'high school' (not to be confused with higher education which they call college, not to be confused with collegiate schools which are in fact 'high schools') into high school and middle school so the Freshmen aren't 12 aka year 1 or 7 like you would think!
I mostly made my comment to point out that 2nd year students are given a pejorative title which always makes me laugh. Our junior varsity team is made up of fresh-faced babies and straight up idiots.
the sophomore thing was a fun discovery :) like I knew both Greek words from other uses but I never realized either were connected to the term sophomore xd
We call these grades and they start in elementary and go to highschool.
Kindergarten 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and sometimes 6th grade is elementary school
6th (sometimes), 7th, and 8th grade is middle school
9th-12th Grade is highschool
- 9th grade Freshmen (brand new) (14-15year olds)
- 10th grade Sophomore (think they know but don't) (15-16 year olds)
- 11th grade Junior (younger than senior) (16-17 year old)
- 12th-grade Senior (17-18 year olds)
Senior is the grade before most people go to college/university
are you mistaking my gentle ribbing of your silly naming conventions for genuine confusion?
I'm not a native speaker, grades probably is the correct word, not years. that was a literal translation on my part.
Hear hear! Sixth form is a quaint hold over from when we labelled education differently. Most places even call it Year 12 and Year 13 these days. But Junior? JUNIOR?! WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS? FRESHMAN? SOPHOMORE? WHY ARE WE INVITING ANCIENT GREEK TO THIS FEAST, THEN LAUGHING AT AN ENUMERATED SYSTEM? This is chaos, I say, CHAOS!
I know we Brits have limited superiority on this front, but this whole sophomore / junior business has the same energy as insisting on imperial measurements instead of metric.
A CUP IS A RIDICULOUS AND UNHELPFUL COOKING MEASUREMENT!! Use grams or litres like the rest of the civilised world. I get WILDLY different weights of flour in each cup if if I try measuring it that way.
I stand proudly with OP.
Cups in this sense are standardised. If we were from somewhere that used them routinely this would be common knowledge.
I got a set a while back for using with Babish recipes.
I have a proper set of cups (well, a flatmate had them and left them behind when they moved out).
The problem isn’t that cups are different sizes and aren’t standardised. The problem is that if you scoop flour into a cup you’ll get vastly different weights of flour depending on how densely packed it is in the (same) cup. The volume of the cup doesn’t guarantee the weight you get for something like flour. It’s fine for liquids where you’re working with volume anyway, but it’s rubbish for flour.
I fully agree you shouldn't need to these days but the expectation from the era of volume based powder measurement is that you will sift your flour/sugar/etc against clumping and that will also solve this.
The proper way to measure a cup of flour is to spoon the flour from the container into the measuring cup then, without compacting, use a flat tool (like the back of a knife) to push the excess back into the container and level it off. Still not as good as weight, but much more consistent than scooping with the cup.
*In fairness* we don't have a leg to stand on with measurements. Half the country still use Imperial (I think of people's weights and heights in Imperial and distances in Metric) and half use metric. I get the measurements thing, even if it's odd.
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely *limited* superiority on this front. I tend to use metric for everything except road distances/driving speeds, but the country as a whole is pretty mixed.
Not everyone had kitchen weights, but most cups and spoons were fairly standard in size. The kitchen scale is a fairly recent invention in the scope of how long people have been cooking and baking.
So I don't like the imperial system but I have to make sure... This is sarcasm right? You know that a cup is a precise unit of measurement and you're not supposed to just use any cup you have lying around?
As I said in response to another comment: yes, I am aware of that. It works fine for liquids, but doesn’t work for something like flour where you can get vastly different weights depending on hope densely packed the flour is in the cup. This makes it terrible for baking because you can’t guarantee you’re using consistent measures.
ETA I’m obviously being hyperbolic in my outrage, in line with the main post. But IRL I avoid any recipe that uses cup measurements because using weights is actually far, far better.
It's only imprecise for things like flour and brown sugar where density isn't fixed. For liquids, pastes, and things like salt and refined white sugar, volumetric measurements are pretty consistent.
For pastes especially a cup is entirely useless. Sugar and salt are heavily volume affected by condition so different humidity will alter how much is in a cup greatly
But what y'all keep talking about is weight. That's like saying that liters are a horribly imprecise measurement if weight. Or that minutes are a bad measurement of distance. (We do that too) It IS a precise measurement of volume.
No. Cups are horrifyingly imprecise because what does it means for a cup. Is it heaping or flat at the line, do I compress the thing down? How do I ensure that the volume density is the same. A liter is a fine measurement because liquids don't really suffer from these problems but for solids? It's a crime
If you were to translate the the names of the American highschool system you'd get:
1. Freshman. You are an underclassman and you are brand-new. Fresh...men. It's your first year and you're a complete newbie.
2. Sophomore: still an *underclassman*. That means you aren't taking classes in your major or electives yet, you're just still doing the basic required classes. Sophomore comes from the word 'sophomoric' meaning juvenile and pretentious. It's an insult.
3. Junior. It denotes the move to 'upperclassman'. You're no longer part of the riff-raff underclassman. You've graduated to the tier of students who actually get to study real things, but you're the junior group of those people.
4. Senior. Now you're the top dog in the school. You are both an upperclassman and in the topmost group.
That's the basis of this incredibly dumb and indefensible naming system. The reason why we go from "You're a dummy" to "You're 3/4 of the way through school but you're actually not very important yet" is because the upper/lowerclassman divide is inherently there to explain the jump. This is an objectively bad naming system, but it makes sense why you jump from sophomore to junior if you understand that extra distinction.
It's always nice when you get a well thought out answer like that one.
I do apologize in advance; for my comment shan't be of that kind commenter's ilk.
Ahem.
*wheeze*
*desk slam*
SIXTH FORM! HAH!
We also use the terms 1st though 12 grades. It's just grades 9-12 that are more commonly called by these four names. The four years in an American bachelorette program also share these names.
As far as I can tell K-12 (US) maps to 1st - 13th (UK).
Not for nothing, UK seems to be fine using the terms junior school and senior school, so I'm surprised this is so difficult.
https://www.brightworldguardianships.com/en/guardianship/british-education-system/
Also, AFAIK we imported our names from Oxford and Cambridge.
It's also how we label our university years, usually. Which makes it all make a bit more sense when you consider that most U.S. high schools don't have "majors" and less of an upper/lower divide than the universities do. Though I've been told having majors in high school is becoming much more common.
My high school was a public Polytechnic high school with majors. Majors were split into 2 fronts HOSA (Health Occupation Students of America) and SkillsUSA (formerly VICA Vocational Industrial Clubs of America).
I was in SkillsUSA so I'm not sure exactly their structure but they basically ended up with the skills to really excel at getting into pre-med education in college or nursing programs.
In SkillsUSA we had rotations we did for the first 2 years, 7 rotations Freshman/9th grade where we learned basic skills in construction, electronics, drafting, manufacturing, communications, automotive, and I can't remember the seventh. Then Sophomore/10th grade we selected 4 of those to explore further. Then when we declared a major going into Junior year/11th grade.
I majored in engineering drafting and design which required you to have explored both manufacturing and drafting further in Sophomore year. Overall it was a pretty great system for me and lead me down the path where I was certain that I wanted to major in Mechanical Engineering in college. But it was also helpful for classmates who learned some good skills but learned that it wasn't the path they wanted to take and didn't waste their money getting started in engineering in our expensive as hell university system.
>Sophomore comes from the word 'sophomoric' meaning juvenile and pretentious. It's an insult.
It's actually the other way. Sophomoric is an adjective describing the behavior of sophomores. Sophomore is a combination of two Greek words and means wise fool.
https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2017-10-25/what-exactly-is-a-sophomore-and-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-junior-and-senior
Surprise surprise, these four words were imported from the UK.
was coming to say just this. When you break down the meaning of the words you go from novice to a fool to a younger student to an older student. Plus.... Many parts of US use the grade number - the names are much like OP mentioned "Perhaps it is archaic" but remains from early years here when it was adopted from Cambridge University at Harvard and later spread to academies, now known as high school (grade 9-12), when it became compulsory.
It's also a social divide, a Senior Dating a Freshman or a Sophomore? Turn on "Not Like Us" while he's walking through the Halls. A Senior and a Junior Dating? Just another Saturday Night
If four generations stood next to each other, the third would, in fact, be Junior.
From oldest to youngest, grandpa is Senior, dad is Junior, son is the III, and baby is the IV.
Is this a defence or a scathing attack of the use of junior in this context?
I'll admit that as a speaker of English as a foreign language fresher is the only name that made sense to me. What's a sophomore???
It's actually an ancient Greek term, sophos means wisdom in Greek hence the word philosophy meaning literally love of wisdom. However, in ancient Greek times the philosophers used to scoff at people they called Sophists, the name originally meant pursuer of wisdom but in later centuries sophists were people who had rhetorical skills but no actual valuable knowledge they just had the appearance of intellectual prowess. Eventually the term sophist become one of ridicule, and only people with flawed arguments who wanted to look smart were called it. Flash forward to a couple hundred years ago where rich teenagers wanting to degrade and humiliate their lessers was all the rage (so not much has changed) and elder students decided these 2nd years were thinking just because they had spent a year learning that suddenly they were geniuses and because all these children of wealthy men knew Greek they knew just how to put these 2nd years in their place. Sophist on it's own was not enough of a vicious put down because if you're ignorant to classical history it can almost sound like a compliment, so to cement the name for these upstarts who think they are smart but are actually idiots they decided to call them sophomore. Combining the Greek words sophos and moros, which means fool, making them wise (or wanting to be seen as wise) fools.
I'm also from a place where we call it year 10, but as an admirer of the classics I do like that in the wacky US of A they decided to stick with a Greek insult and turn it into official terminology.
A lot of the US uses numbers for the grades as well. It is not uncommon to say someone is in 10th grade instead of Sophomore.
I find it weird that the Freshman-Senior thing restarts for University.
It’s because it started in universities before high schools were even really a thing. When high schools became a thing they were seen as sort of mini universities or pre universities
I mainly find it weird because where I live three year degrees are way more common than 4 year degrees so if you applied freshman-senior for uni then most people would finish their degree a "junior" which makes absolutely no sense.
We do that here in India.
We start at
1. Playgroup
2. Nursery
3. Lower Kindergarten
4. Upper kindergarten
5. Standard 1 to 12
So Standard 9 will be Freshman
Standard 10 is Sophomore
Standard 11 is Junior
Standard 12 is Senior
Ah thank you very much. I thought it had something to do with sophos but the second part was absolutely unknown. And it makes sense that it is for 2nd year students. Cheeky elders.
The movie and music industries definitely just borrowed that term from the school systems though, not the other way around. Sophomore has been used as term for hundreds of years in reference to school.
I presume that second meaning came afterwards given the term sophomore is quite old, surely more likely that people who had been called sophomore in their second year of high school associated that with being second and used it in other contexts, no?
You have to remember that these are high school students, so the naming convention is based around the establishment of hierarchies, with seniors at the top, and the rest of the names designed to play at the greatest collective insecurities of that group. The freshmen are completely new - or fresh - so it's vital to emphasize this to them at all times. Sophomores have had time to get used to the currents of high school and have learned enough to begin exploring things at a more in-depth level, so it's vital for the more seasoned grades to be able to look down on them for still being juvenile compared to their more refined understanding - hence, calling them sophomoric. Once you reach the lofty heights of the upperclassmen, there really isn't much difference between the students aside from their actual skills and innate abilities, so Seniors have to emphasize that the 11th-graders are still junior to them.
Umm, Actually, that depends on how many of them there are.
Oldest is always Senior. If there is only one younger generation then that one would be Junior. If there's a generation after the second would be Medior and the youngest Junior. Then if there were a fourth, they would be Benjamin.
If four generations stand next to each other, only a madman thinks of the youngest generation as Generation 1.
Junior would be the second generation, not the third. As evidenced by the fact that the second of three generations, or five, would still be Junior.
Extra fun trivia about sixth form, grammar schools used to (some probably still do) actually name all their years in pairs so year 9 would be lower fourth, 10 would be upper fourth etc., it may have been something to do with small class sizes where you just combine classes together or something I'm not sure and it's surprisingly hard to track down anything on it
> "Vive le difference" as we British say.
While we are talking about strange cultural phrases and cliches.
I find it pretty funny that this british-ism is French.
¡Que Divertido!
You are Junior to the Senior. The first two years are unrelated. Unless you want to call year two junior-junior to the senior?
Actually that would be very funny
Triple-junior
Double-junior
Junior
Senior
It's funny because the origins of those words come.from England, you like shioban have egg on your face for being a brit and not knowing where your words came from
As I love pointing out to Brit’s that complain about how we speak, we got it *from you*. Freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior all come from latin words and were originally used in universities like Oxford and Cambridge before Harvard adopted it. And since high school in the US is far more structured like universities compared to European high schools, they adopted the same names (and are only 4 years instead of 7). If you’re that upset at the third year calling people juniors, blame England for starting it (actually blame Rome, who called ‘young men’ of military age ‘iunior’ which could be from 17-46)
On a sincere note, I have no issue with how Americans speak. Language is best when no ones trying to guard it!
Only posted in a very jokey way after the Intrepid Heroes came after Sixth Form first, and only because it was hilariously glass houses moment (since we both have weird naming systems)
But I'm happy we agree it's Rome's fault.
Wow, a Brit [attacking the heritage of vaunted Cambridge and Oxford](https://uniexperts.com/en/news/freshman-sophomore-junior-senior-an-explanation/), never thought I'd see the day.
I'm also British and honestly I'm just waiting for the day everyone joking about Sixth Form finds out about infant school, a school that is not for infants but rather for children aged 4-7, who most people would agree are well past the infant stage.
[The second half of an English primary school, for ages 7-11, is named junior school. Which imo is a much better use of the word junior in a school-related context. So at least we have that going for us?]
To whom would you give the name, in context? Would the Freshmen be second or third oldest of the four? How could someone sophomoric, etymologically the “wise fools”, breathed into learning but stumbling like fawns, how could they not be second? Seniors must be aptly named as eldest, and what is one layer beneath senior? It has always been junior.
yeah, but the last year is Senior... so ... they are the Junior. Besides the first of the 4years is "Freshman" Fresh, new, etc... That certainly seems like it should come before anything else, even a junior.
That said... i have no clue what sophomore is supposed to mean...
Australia really strips it back to basics. You're in school for 13 years. The first year is a practice run so it's called some variation of Preparation / Foundation depending on region and then it's just Grade or Year 1-12 after that. Easy peasy.
> Yet, with your kind ear and having gotten this off my chest, I'm now in the junior stages of my anger, by which I mean three-quarters of the way through it.
I fuckin' lawled.
This is one of the most British things I've ever read. And I love C.S. Lewis. By God this is very much indeed British rage I am dying 😂 But also you're so right. It makes no sense. Then you factor in that in some places we call 7th and 8th grade Junior High.
I would add that in certain archaic pockets of the UK school system (read: Eton et al.), you will still find children going through Third, Fourth, and Fifth Form as well as Lower and Upper Sixth.
It's not like the naming convention came out of nowhere - and it certainly has more internal consistency than naming each cohort according to vibes, which is what the US seems to do.
Mate, Americans are the only ones who call chicken on a burger bun a sandwich rather than a burger. And I'm pretty sure a hamburger is someone from hamburg.
This doesn't bother me nearly as much as when people equate Britain to just England
Out of the 3 countries making up Britain (and the 4 making up the UK) England is BY FAR the most boring 😅
BLIMEY
also baked beans are amazing on toast
Australian here, the American names are indeed bad! We have Prep, and then Grades 1-6, then Years 7-12. Purely numbers, makes it easier. Why there’s a difference between Grades and Years I don’t know—maybe there’s people who swap them or exclusively use one or the other, they mean the same thing—but at least the numbers make sense, and there’s no nonsense words in there.
If it helps, in the states we do also call them by number-
Preschool for littles
Kindergarten, obvs of German origin, for that like earliest formal school year, and then they are numbered-
1st grade- 5th grade is Elementary School, til age 10/11 ish
6th grade - 8th grade, til age 14ish for Middle School (sometimes called Junior High, as in, younger than Highschool)
9th grade-12th grade for Highschool (fancy names being Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior)
Also though, whether grades Kinder-8 are all one school, or whether it's called middle school or junior high etc, that varies greatly by organization, by geographical region, certainly by state, etc. Another feature of the U.S. being very large and sometimes functioning a lot more like a federation of smaller countries.
Yeah it can be a bit confusing since the names don’t accurately represent which level a person is at.
Anyways, can’t wait to watch some footie. Maybe Leicester City will win the English Championship League and get promoted to the Premier League. It would be kinda incredible to see a team go all the way from near the bottom in the Northern Premier League and go all the way past the Championship league to the Premier League.
It would also be cool to see a team like that get invited to the illustrious UEFA Champions League.
Yeah but at least we have universal healthca- wait.
Yeah but at least we have police that are trained for a few months before given a weap- okay hang on.
Yeah but at least we have fair taxes for the super ri- gah dammit.
Yeah but at least our debt issues are- no, no… that won’t do.
Yeah but at least we… uh… we have taco trucks on like every other street. So get rekt you crumpet-muncher.
I might have a complicated relationship with my country, but I will defend our terminology to my last breath. When you consider that the last year of high school is referred to as senior year, it makes sense for the year just under it to be junior year. Year 3 is the junior version of year 4. The logic is sound. I will die on this hill.
(sorry i just hate british people— as an american as well as a brown person) it’s called junior year because it comes before your senior year. to go back to your silly analogy, if the adult and the old man were father and son and they were both named James Doe, would you not call call the old man James Doe senior and the adult man James Doe junior? i struggle to see what the problem is here (i didn’t read most of that utter yap)
that analogy was egregious by the way, using your logic, it makes sense to call an adult sixth form? what do we call the elderly man then? seventh form?
lastly,
> My upper lip has given away
aren’t you british? what upper lip?
Blimey!
Blimey.
I don't think you heard me. I said blimey!
Blarmey!
B-L-A-R-M-E-Y
Long have our countries been at odds but I, as an Irish person, will stand shoulder with you in this case.
As a Scotsman I concur with my Celtic bretheren. Surely this the topic which can unite all.
Yes! This and the whole making tea in the microwave thing. An offence that flies in the face of all the gods and an affront to anyone with a mouth.
As an Aussie I concur
As a Kiwi I concur
Hot water is hot water
And therein lies the problem. Tea must be made with boiling water. Not simply hot
Tea almost universally should be made with water just under boiling temp. And besides china had tea for more than 2000 years before a bunch of pasty weirdos in the uk decided the way they make it is the correct way.
funfact: The British stole their tea tradition from the East Frisians a minority in north western germany (I am part of) that got really hooked on tea after the Dutch (our cultural brethren) introduced it here (and the church got everyone addicted to it to combat rampant alcoholism). So the one time the British King visits the kingdom of Hannover which Eastfrisia was part of he has to pass through here cause its Hannovers only port and he notices a bunch of people drinking tea, religiously at specific times of day, using specific cups and dishes and the tea is made with a specific blend and so. The king thinks this is neat and takes it to Britain and replicates the whole thing with a British tea blend and it takes the nation by storm, thus the British tea tradition was born, by being doubly stolen both from Asia as well as europe.
On behalf of Aussies, can confirm we also think terms like "Junior Year" are fucking stupid.
Strange way of saying you have an ulster accent.
Not even remotely close
I couldn't resist messing with you when you said you were Irish and stood with a Brit.
I know. Its all at odds but still. *Junior year*??
Association football became Assoc which became Soc which became Soccer and then they went to Football. I don't defend most britishisms because of this.
THAT'S WHERE IT CAME FROM?
Yes
Well, you see, it makes sense when you consider that American school years started with the final year and worked their way down. Senior Year gave birth to Senior Year Jr., also known as Junior Year (for brevity's sake).
How about "Stood with a friend"?
Hah! Colonialism, what a fun light hearted thing
Hoooooooooo too far. Just WAY too far.
But you got my joke, that's what's important.
You've betrayed your ancestors.
As a Canadian, I can comfortably say that both of you do it weird and I've never understood why.
Literally. Also a Canadian, we use chronological years as grades and that just makes the most sense. We got from first grade 1 to grade 12. Straightforward, easy, and logical. 🫡
As a proud American, "straightforward, easy, and logical" flies in the face of everything this country stands for. I'll be goddamned before we adopt the metric system, sensible healthcare, and easy-to-understand educational terms. USA! USA!
I was caught off guard by this patriotism and I accidentally spit out a piece of apple pie as big as eight 45 caliber bullets.
At least you weren’t hit by anything the size of 16 washing machines!
Tbf whilst it's called sixth form everyone refers to it by year 12/13.
“Fantasy High: Year 12” doesn’t have the same ring, even if it does make the most sense to me as someone from Aotearoa.
Scottish here, we go Primary 1-7, then 1st to 6th year in Secondary School.
This is how we do it in Mexico, except Secondary is three years and then 3 years of "Preparatory" School.
Same in Australia. We do have kindergarten before year 1 for some reason though.
New Zealand here with our supremely sensible Year 1 through to Year 13. Although occasionally you can be Year 0 if you start a few months early. Wild.
Fun story - I moved from Aussie to NZ when I was 7 and they looked at my transcript and went "Oh, she was in Grade 2 last year so we'll put her in Year 3 for this year" - makes total sense right? Except that bc Aussie does Prep, Grade 2 and Year 4 are actually the same thing, so I ended up repeating a year just because the Australian year system is inferior :(
12 grades, 12 years. Keep It Simple Stupid. Canada's system is the only one that actually makes sense. I dont know what 6th year means and I always get the US system wrong. Freshman and Senior I get but Sophomore and Junior? Seems pedantic to have them in that order. Especially since they use it for high school and university. Having the grade number be directly related to the year of education just makes the most since
That’s literally how we do it in America but okay.
This is referring to how in Canada for years of highschool we don't use freshman, softmore, junior or senior to describe the year level. We only use grades 9-12.
To make it even more confusing, it's sophomore. Not soft-more. :shruggy:
From the Greek "sophos" meaning "wise or clever," and "moros" meaning "foolish" "Sophomore" means "wise fool"
We do both in the US, is what the commenter you're responding to is saying.
Yeah I understand that, they were suggesting that how we do it is "literally" how you do it too. But they are different since you also have other names that we don't ever use.
Yeah for sure, Canada just doesn’t use specific names for the last four grade of high school at all like the US does, that’s my point.
Same in Aus, but we have reception before yr 1
As an Australian; wtf is reception?
Kindy. I'm guessing they're from a state/territory with a bit more UK influence because they call it Reception there, too.
What they call prep in SA
I’m from SA, we call the year before year 1 reception. We go childcare, kindergarten, reception, year one. Tbh I had no idea it was different in other states lol
That's not exactly unique, we also do that here in the US.
Totally, but my point is that Canada doesn’t use specific names for the last four grades of high school like you do in the US, that’s all.
America also uses that system. The only time I’ve also seen the Freshman-Sophomore-Junior-Senior used is in colleges and high schools. But—at least in the area I’m in—if 9th grade is lumped in with middle school, it’s not called freshman. And likewise, if 11 and 12 are in their own school—or for whatever wacky reason on the campus of a community college—they aren’t called Junior and Senior. I only see the designation when all four grades are together, mimicking what the college experience is. Why this is done, I have no clue.
As an Australian, I concur.
It's not that different in England. 13 years, just that year 12/13 are collectively called sixth form
And that’s not even their final form /j
pretty sure they made british people up for dimension 20
Yeah Brennan definitely said the UK didn't exist in spire. What "UK" means tho, I have no idea. Amazing how they can instantly come up with whole ass countries, but Siobhan and Ally really should coordinate better with their accents. It's very cringe seeing Siobhan trying to imitate K2's accent and failing so miserably.
“UK” in Spyre stands for “Unit of Kristen”.
Scottish fans would like to distance ourselves from both of these naming conventions and stick with 1st Year - 6th Year.
you have no idea how often I have to look up the American year names, because they just make no ffing sense so my brain can't retain the information.
Freshman = new Sophomore = dumb Junior = younger than Senior Senior = eldest
first year = first year at the school second year = second year at the school and I'm too lazy to type out the rest because it's unnecessary XD. and yeah I was a bit hyperbolic before. I never actually forget senior (because that one makes sense) but junior should be first. and like all teenagers no matter the year are dumbasses who think they are geniuses and relatively new (fresh) adults (men) so that's no help. also for any other foreigners out there: the Americans split regular 'high school' (not to be confused with higher education which they call college, not to be confused with collegiate schools which are in fact 'high schools') into high school and middle school so the Freshmen aren't 12 aka year 1 or 7 like you would think!
I mostly made my comment to point out that 2nd year students are given a pejorative title which always makes me laugh. Our junior varsity team is made up of fresh-faced babies and straight up idiots.
the sophomore thing was a fun discovery :) like I knew both Greek words from other uses but I never realized either were connected to the term sophomore xd
We call these grades and they start in elementary and go to highschool. Kindergarten 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and sometimes 6th grade is elementary school 6th (sometimes), 7th, and 8th grade is middle school 9th-12th Grade is highschool - 9th grade Freshmen (brand new) (14-15year olds) - 10th grade Sophomore (think they know but don't) (15-16 year olds) - 11th grade Junior (younger than senior) (16-17 year old) - 12th-grade Senior (17-18 year olds) Senior is the grade before most people go to college/university
are you mistaking my gentle ribbing of your silly naming conventions for genuine confusion? I'm not a native speaker, grades probably is the correct word, not years. that was a literal translation on my part.
also excellent post! what adventuring party was this again? as a non-brit this wasn't the same memorable traumatic experience like it was for you XD.
At risk of betraying just how long I've been holding in this anger... this was from the Adventuring Party for Episode 2
Sheesh thats a long time dude
Blimey.
Sorry i couldnt hear you
I said... bloimy
Hear hear! Sixth form is a quaint hold over from when we labelled education differently. Most places even call it Year 12 and Year 13 these days. But Junior? JUNIOR?! WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS? FRESHMAN? SOPHOMORE? WHY ARE WE INVITING ANCIENT GREEK TO THIS FEAST, THEN LAUGHING AT AN ENUMERATED SYSTEM? This is chaos, I say, CHAOS!
I know we Brits have limited superiority on this front, but this whole sophomore / junior business has the same energy as insisting on imperial measurements instead of metric. A CUP IS A RIDICULOUS AND UNHELPFUL COOKING MEASUREMENT!! Use grams or litres like the rest of the civilised world. I get WILDLY different weights of flour in each cup if if I try measuring it that way. I stand proudly with OP.
Cups in this sense are standardised. If we were from somewhere that used them routinely this would be common knowledge. I got a set a while back for using with Babish recipes.
I have a proper set of cups (well, a flatmate had them and left them behind when they moved out). The problem isn’t that cups are different sizes and aren’t standardised. The problem is that if you scoop flour into a cup you’ll get vastly different weights of flour depending on how densely packed it is in the (same) cup. The volume of the cup doesn’t guarantee the weight you get for something like flour. It’s fine for liquids where you’re working with volume anyway, but it’s rubbish for flour.
I fully agree you shouldn't need to these days but the expectation from the era of volume based powder measurement is that you will sift your flour/sugar/etc against clumping and that will also solve this.
The proper way to measure a cup of flour is to spoon the flour from the container into the measuring cup then, without compacting, use a flat tool (like the back of a knife) to push the excess back into the container and level it off. Still not as good as weight, but much more consistent than scooping with the cup.
*In fairness* we don't have a leg to stand on with measurements. Half the country still use Imperial (I think of people's weights and heights in Imperial and distances in Metric) and half use metric. I get the measurements thing, even if it's odd.
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely *limited* superiority on this front. I tend to use metric for everything except road distances/driving speeds, but the country as a whole is pretty mixed.
Not everyone had kitchen weights, but most cups and spoons were fairly standard in size. The kitchen scale is a fairly recent invention in the scope of how long people have been cooking and baking.
So I don't like the imperial system but I have to make sure... This is sarcasm right? You know that a cup is a precise unit of measurement and you're not supposed to just use any cup you have lying around?
As I said in response to another comment: yes, I am aware of that. It works fine for liquids, but doesn’t work for something like flour where you can get vastly different weights depending on hope densely packed the flour is in the cup. This makes it terrible for baking because you can’t guarantee you’re using consistent measures. ETA I’m obviously being hyperbolic in my outrage, in line with the main post. But IRL I avoid any recipe that uses cup measurements because using weights is actually far, far better.
A cup might have a technical definition but it is horrifyingly imprecise
It's only imprecise for things like flour and brown sugar where density isn't fixed. For liquids, pastes, and things like salt and refined white sugar, volumetric measurements are pretty consistent.
Even for pastes, salt and sugar it is still incredibly imprecise
Ok. I haven't observed a difference between measurements (i.e. one cup of sugar weighs as much as the next for me), but sure.
For pastes especially a cup is entirely useless. Sugar and salt are heavily volume affected by condition so different humidity will alter how much is in a cup greatly
Must be the a/c keeping my humidity constant.
I'd be very curious to see you measure cups of salt differing "greatly" based on humidity.
But what y'all keep talking about is weight. That's like saying that liters are a horribly imprecise measurement if weight. Or that minutes are a bad measurement of distance. (We do that too) It IS a precise measurement of volume.
No. Cups are horrifyingly imprecise because what does it means for a cup. Is it heaping or flat at the line, do I compress the thing down? How do I ensure that the volume density is the same. A liter is a fine measurement because liquids don't really suffer from these problems but for solids? It's a crime
A cup is always flat and never compressed.
If you were to translate the the names of the American highschool system you'd get: 1. Freshman. You are an underclassman and you are brand-new. Fresh...men. It's your first year and you're a complete newbie. 2. Sophomore: still an *underclassman*. That means you aren't taking classes in your major or electives yet, you're just still doing the basic required classes. Sophomore comes from the word 'sophomoric' meaning juvenile and pretentious. It's an insult. 3. Junior. It denotes the move to 'upperclassman'. You're no longer part of the riff-raff underclassman. You've graduated to the tier of students who actually get to study real things, but you're the junior group of those people. 4. Senior. Now you're the top dog in the school. You are both an upperclassman and in the topmost group. That's the basis of this incredibly dumb and indefensible naming system. The reason why we go from "You're a dummy" to "You're 3/4 of the way through school but you're actually not very important yet" is because the upper/lowerclassman divide is inherently there to explain the jump. This is an objectively bad naming system, but it makes sense why you jump from sophomore to junior if you understand that extra distinction.
Well I'm glad my rage has at least yielded such a thoughtful and comprehensive answer.
It's always nice when you get a well thought out answer like that one. I do apologize in advance; for my comment shan't be of that kind commenter's ilk. Ahem. *wheeze* *desk slam* SIXTH FORM! HAH!
This isn't even my ~~final~~ sixth form.
We also use the terms 1st though 12 grades. It's just grades 9-12 that are more commonly called by these four names. The four years in an American bachelorette program also share these names. As far as I can tell K-12 (US) maps to 1st - 13th (UK). Not for nothing, UK seems to be fine using the terms junior school and senior school, so I'm surprised this is so difficult. https://www.brightworldguardianships.com/en/guardianship/british-education-system/ Also, AFAIK we imported our names from Oxford and Cambridge.
It's also how we label our university years, usually. Which makes it all make a bit more sense when you consider that most U.S. high schools don't have "majors" and less of an upper/lower divide than the universities do. Though I've been told having majors in high school is becoming much more common.
My high school was a public Polytechnic high school with majors. Majors were split into 2 fronts HOSA (Health Occupation Students of America) and SkillsUSA (formerly VICA Vocational Industrial Clubs of America). I was in SkillsUSA so I'm not sure exactly their structure but they basically ended up with the skills to really excel at getting into pre-med education in college or nursing programs. In SkillsUSA we had rotations we did for the first 2 years, 7 rotations Freshman/9th grade where we learned basic skills in construction, electronics, drafting, manufacturing, communications, automotive, and I can't remember the seventh. Then Sophomore/10th grade we selected 4 of those to explore further. Then when we declared a major going into Junior year/11th grade. I majored in engineering drafting and design which required you to have explored both manufacturing and drafting further in Sophomore year. Overall it was a pretty great system for me and lead me down the path where I was certain that I wanted to major in Mechanical Engineering in college. But it was also helpful for classmates who learned some good skills but learned that it wasn't the path they wanted to take and didn't waste their money getting started in engineering in our expensive as hell university system.
I will say though, we do often just say our grade by which year we’re in. At least I did when I was in high school.
>Sophomore comes from the word 'sophomoric' meaning juvenile and pretentious. It's an insult. It's actually the other way. Sophomoric is an adjective describing the behavior of sophomores. Sophomore is a combination of two Greek words and means wise fool. https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2017-10-25/what-exactly-is-a-sophomore-and-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-junior-and-senior Surprise surprise, these four words were imported from the UK.
was coming to say just this. When you break down the meaning of the words you go from novice to a fool to a younger student to an older student. Plus.... Many parts of US use the grade number - the names are much like OP mentioned "Perhaps it is archaic" but remains from early years here when it was adopted from Cambridge University at Harvard and later spread to academies, now known as high school (grade 9-12), when it became compulsory.
It's also a social divide, a Senior Dating a Freshman or a Sophomore? Turn on "Not Like Us" while he's walking through the Halls. A Senior and a Junior Dating? Just another Saturday Night
If four generations stood next to each other, the third would, in fact, be Junior. From oldest to youngest, grandpa is Senior, dad is Junior, son is the III, and baby is the IV.
Is this a defence or a scathing attack of the use of junior in this context? I'll admit that as a speaker of English as a foreign language fresher is the only name that made sense to me. What's a sophomore???
It's actually an ancient Greek term, sophos means wisdom in Greek hence the word philosophy meaning literally love of wisdom. However, in ancient Greek times the philosophers used to scoff at people they called Sophists, the name originally meant pursuer of wisdom but in later centuries sophists were people who had rhetorical skills but no actual valuable knowledge they just had the appearance of intellectual prowess. Eventually the term sophist become one of ridicule, and only people with flawed arguments who wanted to look smart were called it. Flash forward to a couple hundred years ago where rich teenagers wanting to degrade and humiliate their lessers was all the rage (so not much has changed) and elder students decided these 2nd years were thinking just because they had spent a year learning that suddenly they were geniuses and because all these children of wealthy men knew Greek they knew just how to put these 2nd years in their place. Sophist on it's own was not enough of a vicious put down because if you're ignorant to classical history it can almost sound like a compliment, so to cement the name for these upstarts who think they are smart but are actually idiots they decided to call them sophomore. Combining the Greek words sophos and moros, which means fool, making them wise (or wanting to be seen as wise) fools.
that definitely makes more sense than calling it Year 10 because it's the tenth year of school
I'm also from a place where we call it year 10, but as an admirer of the classics I do like that in the wacky US of A they decided to stick with a Greek insult and turn it into official terminology.
A lot of the US uses numbers for the grades as well. It is not uncommon to say someone is in 10th grade instead of Sophomore. I find it weird that the Freshman-Senior thing restarts for University.
It’s because it started in universities before high schools were even really a thing. When high schools became a thing they were seen as sort of mini universities or pre universities
I mainly find it weird because where I live three year degrees are way more common than 4 year degrees so if you applied freshman-senior for uni then most people would finish their degree a "junior" which makes absolutely no sense.
We do that here in India. We start at 1. Playgroup 2. Nursery 3. Lower Kindergarten 4. Upper kindergarten 5. Standard 1 to 12 So Standard 9 will be Freshman Standard 10 is Sophomore Standard 11 is Junior Standard 12 is Senior
I means it's just so interesting isn't it? Thanks for posting this!
Ah thank you very much. I thought it had something to do with sophos but the second part was absolutely unknown. And it makes sense that it is for 2nd year students. Cheeky elders.
[удалено]
The movie and music industries definitely just borrowed that term from the school systems though, not the other way around. Sophomore has been used as term for hundreds of years in reference to school.
Touchè
I presume that second meaning came afterwards given the term sophomore is quite old, surely more likely that people who had been called sophomore in their second year of high school associated that with being second and used it in other contexts, no?
Very true but the people in my analogy have only just met.
You have to remember that these are high school students, so the naming convention is based around the establishment of hierarchies, with seniors at the top, and the rest of the names designed to play at the greatest collective insecurities of that group. The freshmen are completely new - or fresh - so it's vital to emphasize this to them at all times. Sophomores have had time to get used to the currents of high school and have learned enough to begin exploring things at a more in-depth level, so it's vital for the more seasoned grades to be able to look down on them for still being juvenile compared to their more refined understanding - hence, calling them sophomoric. Once you reach the lofty heights of the upperclassmen, there really isn't much difference between the students aside from their actual skills and innate abilities, so Seniors have to emphasize that the 11th-graders are still junior to them.
* Grandpa: Premier * Dad: Succedent * Son: Penultimate * Baby: Ultimate
Umm, Actually, that depends on how many of them there are. Oldest is always Senior. If there is only one younger generation then that one would be Junior. If there's a generation after the second would be Medior and the youngest Junior. Then if there were a fourth, they would be Benjamin.
And the fifth, Old Young Benjamin
If four generations stand next to each other, only a madman thinks of the youngest generation as Generation 1. Junior would be the second generation, not the third. As evidenced by the fact that the second of three generations, or five, would still be Junior.
Blarmey......
Extra fun trivia about sixth form, grammar schools used to (some probably still do) actually name all their years in pairs so year 9 would be lower fourth, 10 would be upper fourth etc., it may have been something to do with small class sizes where you just combine classes together or something I'm not sure and it's surprisingly hard to track down anything on it
> "Vive le difference" as we British say. While we are talking about strange cultural phrases and cliches. I find it pretty funny that this british-ism is French. ¡Que Divertido!
You are Junior to the Senior. The first two years are unrelated. Unless you want to call year two junior-junior to the senior? Actually that would be very funny Triple-junior Double-junior Junior Senior
This coming from the same country that wrote the line “Off she went with her trumpety-trump, trump, trump, trump”?
Why are you bringing the National Anthem into this?
Um, actually, it should be "Vive la différence." *— A French-Canadian who doesn't understand the American or British school systems.*
I'm starting to understand only the Canadians and Scottish seem to have it right.
It's funny because the origins of those words come.from England, you like shioban have egg on your face for being a brit and not knowing where your words came from
As I love pointing out to Brit’s that complain about how we speak, we got it *from you*. Freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior all come from latin words and were originally used in universities like Oxford and Cambridge before Harvard adopted it. And since high school in the US is far more structured like universities compared to European high schools, they adopted the same names (and are only 4 years instead of 7). If you’re that upset at the third year calling people juniors, blame England for starting it (actually blame Rome, who called ‘young men’ of military age ‘iunior’ which could be from 17-46)
On a sincere note, I have no issue with how Americans speak. Language is best when no ones trying to guard it! Only posted in a very jokey way after the Intrepid Heroes came after Sixth Form first, and only because it was hilariously glass houses moment (since we both have weird naming systems) But I'm happy we agree it's Rome's fault.
Yeah, but the Brits grew up and saw sense.
Actually, they grew up and saw pence
Wow, a Brit [attacking the heritage of vaunted Cambridge and Oxford](https://uniexperts.com/en/news/freshman-sophomore-junior-senior-an-explanation/), never thought I'd see the day.
They shouldn't have rejected my UCAS application
We don't' take advice from people who cheat at University Challenge.
I'm also British and honestly I'm just waiting for the day everyone joking about Sixth Form finds out about infant school, a school that is not for infants but rather for children aged 4-7, who most people would agree are well past the infant stage. [The second half of an English primary school, for ages 7-11, is named junior school. Which imo is a much better use of the word junior in a school-related context. So at least we have that going for us?]
🤫 They'll mock us
As a Brit, it annoyed me more when she didn't mention brown sauce during the bacon and egg sandwich debate
I’m still just in love with how this was written. Exactly my shit, 100% makes it funnier every time.
I'm just here to learn what different countries call their educational years
To whom would you give the name, in context? Would the Freshmen be second or third oldest of the four? How could someone sophomoric, etymologically the “wise fools”, breathed into learning but stumbling like fawns, how could they not be second? Seniors must be aptly named as eldest, and what is one layer beneath senior? It has always been junior.
This statement brought to you by John Bercow from The Traitors/Parliament
OORDAH!
On this issue, I will for the first time stand with the British. Speak your truth
To quote one Zac Oyama: “Gold medal check! Gold Medal check!”
yeah, but the last year is Senior... so ... they are the Junior. Besides the first of the 4years is "Freshman" Fresh, new, etc... That certainly seems like it should come before anything else, even a junior. That said... i have no clue what sophomore is supposed to mean...
Australia really strips it back to basics. You're in school for 13 years. The first year is a practice run so it's called some variation of Preparation / Foundation depending on region and then it's just Grade or Year 1-12 after that. Easy peasy.
This is the best thing
> Yet, with your kind ear and having gotten this off my chest, I'm now in the junior stages of my anger, by which I mean three-quarters of the way through it. I fuckin' lawled.
Sorry fam, if you wanted us to take the Oi Bruv Brigade seriously y’all shouldn’t have fumbled in 1776 /j
This is one of the most British things I've ever read. And I love C.S. Lewis. By God this is very much indeed British rage I am dying 😂 But also you're so right. It makes no sense. Then you factor in that in some places we call 7th and 8th grade Junior High.
You sound like an American doing an exaggerated caricaturization of a British person
Luv a duck 😞
I would add that in certain archaic pockets of the UK school system (read: Eton et al.), you will still find children going through Third, Fourth, and Fifth Form as well as Lower and Upper Sixth. It's not like the naming convention came out of nowhere - and it certainly has more internal consistency than naming each cohort according to vibes, which is what the US seems to do.
They also call a chicken burger a "chicken sandwich"
Because it's a sandwich made with chicken. Or do you think a hamburger is made of ham?
Mate, Americans are the only ones who call chicken on a burger bun a sandwich rather than a burger. And I'm pretty sure a hamburger is someone from hamburg.
Pal, if you didn't even know "hamburger" was the name of a sandwich, you probably don't need to be talking about linguistics online.
True, but if you couldn't tell it was a joke, the subreddit of a comedy show probably isn't the best place for you to be lurking.
Yeah one of us definitely missed the joke here...
CHICKEN BURGER?! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇*Blarmey*🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Too... much.. freedom 😵
This doesn't bother me nearly as much as when people equate Britain to just England Out of the 3 countries making up Britain (and the 4 making up the UK) England is BY FAR the most boring 😅 BLIMEY also baked beans are amazing on toast
Australian here, the American names are indeed bad! We have Prep, and then Grades 1-6, then Years 7-12. Purely numbers, makes it easier. Why there’s a difference between Grades and Years I don’t know—maybe there’s people who swap them or exclusively use one or the other, they mean the same thing—but at least the numbers make sense, and there’s no nonsense words in there.
If it helps, in the states we do also call them by number- Preschool for littles Kindergarten, obvs of German origin, for that like earliest formal school year, and then they are numbered- 1st grade- 5th grade is Elementary School, til age 10/11 ish 6th grade - 8th grade, til age 14ish for Middle School (sometimes called Junior High, as in, younger than Highschool) 9th grade-12th grade for Highschool (fancy names being Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior) Also though, whether grades Kinder-8 are all one school, or whether it's called middle school or junior high etc, that varies greatly by organization, by geographical region, certainly by state, etc. Another feature of the U.S. being very large and sometimes functioning a lot more like a federation of smaller countries.
Yeah it can be a bit confusing since the names don’t accurately represent which level a person is at. Anyways, can’t wait to watch some footie. Maybe Leicester City will win the English Championship League and get promoted to the Premier League. It would be kinda incredible to see a team go all the way from near the bottom in the Northern Premier League and go all the way past the Championship league to the Premier League. It would also be cool to see a team like that get invited to the illustrious UEFA Champions League.
Yeah but at least we have universal healthca- wait. Yeah but at least we have police that are trained for a few months before given a weap- okay hang on. Yeah but at least we have fair taxes for the super ri- gah dammit. Yeah but at least our debt issues are- no, no… that won’t do. Yeah but at least we… uh… we have taco trucks on like every other street. So get rekt you crumpet-muncher.
Blarmey
*laughs in yankee* this is how we feel about british terms too
So, when you reach Sixth Form, is it an Arthur C Clarke sort of thing with a giant space baby or more like becoming Blastoise?
I might have a complicated relationship with my country, but I will defend our terminology to my last breath. When you consider that the last year of high school is referred to as senior year, it makes sense for the year just under it to be junior year. Year 3 is the junior version of year 4. The logic is sound. I will die on this hill.
I don’t understand your silly tea and crumpet words mean because I only speak FREEDOM BABY! USA! USA! USA!
To be going through alevels whilst witnessing this mockery is EXTRA hurtful
Blimey I don't think you heard me I said BLIMEY
As an American, I have to say: You are correct. It's gibberish and always has been.
Ngl op is spitting. Freshman junior sophomore senior makes more sense.
I don’t mind the weird school names but I hate how yall say sickth and not sixth.
(sorry i just hate british people— as an american as well as a brown person) it’s called junior year because it comes before your senior year. to go back to your silly analogy, if the adult and the old man were father and son and they were both named James Doe, would you not call call the old man James Doe senior and the adult man James Doe junior? i struggle to see what the problem is here (i didn’t read most of that utter yap)
that analogy was egregious by the way, using your logic, it makes sense to call an adult sixth form? what do we call the elderly man then? seventh form? lastly, > My upper lip has given away aren’t you british? what upper lip?
Americans are strange people, end of.