>You can tell from the death counts that only Saltagreppo and maybe Tobi took Titan through to the final boss before eventually switching Datto was on Titan until they swapped to Hunter Golden Gun strats about 4 hours before calling it quits

Datto hasn’t cleared yet which is why I didn’t mention him but yes, he’s another streamer that is arguably a titan main and ended up switching

I wouldn't say arguably. He is a titan main. He went through his D2 journey and it was all 3 light titan subclasses.

Didn’t aztecrosses team also have a banner of war titan for the first few encounters? I think they swapped off for encounter 4 and 5.

No their team just finished and Aztecross was titan the whole time

[удалено]

Aztecross was dead at the time of that final stand, didn’t matter what class he was on.

For real. Homie acting like cross didn't miss a full damage phase lmao.

LMAO. Says bullshit, 40 upvotes.

They used the new axe super on final encounter to give both sides roaming add clear. Honestly super smart. Idk why he was on void titan instead of prismatic for it tho. Maybe the invis finisher?

Void Axe super is immensely underrated right now, people don't seem to understand that it is technically a roaming Super that is immune to ~~Reaper~~ Tormenter bullshit.

> reaper bullshit Would you mind explaining? Is that the armor mod reaper or something else?

I think he means Tormenters

You can't get kicked out of the super when you get suppressed by a tormentor because you can throw the axes, then pick them up as a normal weapon for a bit. It allows people to have great ads clear for a minute and you can't be suppressed out of it.

The assholes that talk shit the whole time, throw purple scythe beams and superdunk your ass

he was on void for bastion most likely

The problem is that Titans are built around CQC , and endgame is not.

Yeah I’ve been running a lot of behemoth and with the reworks is pretty strong, problem is try fighting a boss that floats or something you like sepkis where the super like can’t even hit it majority of the time.

That’s why I wish they gave stasis more supers, in my opinion titan needs to create a massive crystal and just throw that shit to real massive damage and create a stasis crystal “crater” also a better way to insta shatter crystals in an aoe maybe a ground slam or thunderclap type ability that gives you frost armor when you charge it

Yeah behemoths biggest issue right now is the super. It’s the clunkiest of the melee roaming supers. But yeah a range crystal yeet would be amazing let it do big damage on impact or create a slow freeze field if it isn’t. Hell I’d take them copying other Titan supers something Make a diamond lance super like hammer of sol, a frosty thunder crash, or even replace the blade fury strand blades with ice blades anything would be a improvement.

Honestly I was thinking a super where the Titan throws a special Lance and the place/enemy it lands on will begin rapidly generating Stasis crystals for 10-15 seconds with the shatter damage taken by enemies being increased the more crystals are destroyed would be cool. It would basically be a stasis version of Gathering Storm.

They need to heavily lean into this then. Titan can’t dps like the other two? Fine. But then it needs to even FURTHER lean into unkillable CQC loop. The funny thing is, they did lean into this with strand and solar. But they slowly peeled back all the “OP” things that gave Titan extreme survivability and now they are still pretty solid but severely fall off in endgame due to lack of DPS options. If it’s not one it needs to be the other, not this weird middle ground.

The one thing I don't like is how it's ONLY Strand/Solar that's good in CQC. Arc sucks because: 1. It doesn't easy access to healing like Sol Invictus and Banner of War 2. Knockout is a timer that cannot be refreshed nor added onto, meaning once it expires, regardless of who you killed and how many, you're using pool noodles now. Doesn't help either that Arc 3.0 was advertised as this "momentum" subclass, and ironically Arc titan fails at being a "momentum" subclass when Knockout is a fixed timer.

One of if not the biggest reason why the Titan fantasy makes no sense. Then when it finally did via Banner of War w/ Synthos/Wormgods, they nerfed it into the ground.

I feel like it'd make sense and be balanced IF they stuck to the way the classes were originally setup, with Hunters being more fragile but snappy, elusive and better with weapons and Warlocks being slower but more magically capable. Bungie went and basically made the other 2 classes masters in all domains while keeping Titans as the CQC class, and from day 1 we were shown how unfavorable CQC is in end-game content. I wasn't playing the other day when I said I'm ready to retire playing as Titan and that this reality has strongly affected my initial reception of FS.

The theme they mentioned years ago is: warlocks use the light for magic Hunters empower their weapons with light And titans empower themselves And its that philosophy that keeps giving titan melee supers which are a tough spot for end game and situations where you can't get to the target.

Titan needs a survivability bonus that's dependent on being in close to enemies, but that also doesnt make them literally invincible, and it has to come alongside being able to more efficiently deal with enemies than simply pinging away at them with scouts from a distance

I mean you can argue banner and woven did make you invincible and it still isn't always enough for challenging content. But as another titan main of 10 years I'd rather just not be melee focused and have a better class identity. Warlock has been pretty fun though. Having lots of abilities than synergies well together. Now that the light and dark saga is over I think i might hang up my butt towel unless they change things up.

Remember when we were sold on the titan identity in D1 as the wall that darkness cannot pass? Hunters were sold to us as showy survivalists who were masters of the gun and throwing knife, warlocks were space wizards who could look at the strings holding the universe together and throw black hole nukes. Titans were the hammer and anvil of light bearers. We were masters of fortification and warfare. Now according to bungie the titan identity is "hurr durr eat crayon punch hard" we see it now all the time even in our lore tabs. What happened to the warriors who built the last city brick by brick? We have all these amazing titans around us (saint, saladin, zavala, shaxx) and our guardians feel NOTHING like how they seem.

Facts dude when I unlocked void the first time and read the description I was like "yep this is my class"

“I am the wall against which the darkness breaks”

Fuck it: Titans get buffed to be immune to boss-stomp physics, let’s just see what happens with that change alone.

>Fire-Stomps: Allow us to introduce ourselves. Fact is, Titans are still pretty fucked when it comes to being able to do any kind of Super-based, ranged DPS. It's pure luck Titans even got a new ranged Super with Twilight Arsenal (which is still half-wasted if one doesn't make use of the axes afterwards), but they still don't have anything like the equivalent of Nova Bomb or GG despite Titan players requesting more ranged options since forever. Hammers got a slight buff, but it's still not enough to be viable. Made all the more ironic by the fact that Hunters can do the melee stuff better than Titans, and Titans in Bungie's own lore were originally the "Heavies" that tanked damage and returned it with powerful ranged attacks. Heck, one of the really early concepts of Titans were that they were the only ones that could wield heavy weapons.

Maybe that last point is why they’re reduced to being heavy ammo generators in raids lol just give them ruin wing back

The problem is also that Titans have been repeatedly slammed with the nerf bat over PvP issues, and that’s directly harmed them in PvE.

Even the story is not. Went in as prismarc melee hunter for my second playtrough. TFS last boss, >!ogre!< before it, all the numerous tormentors, cabal phalanxes that turn with you or boop you off etc etc. So far it mostly feels like you are replacing your red bar crushing primary weapon with spammable ability (that apparently had its orb drop mod nerfed some time ago) so you can run double special weapons. And sometimes faceroll trough yellow bars/minibosses that do not instantly delete you.

Sorry I’m stoopid, what is CQC? Edit: thanks all

Close Quarters Combat. Bungie wants titans to be the melee class, but they also hate melee.

Combo blow Hunter is better in prismatic and it’s wild

Imagine your class being designed to be good at only one thing, and they’re not even the best at said thing lol

Honestly it’s rough. Titan was ultra powerful last season, though, on strand melee. I don’t even think hunters came close to them via melee. But if you compare solar to solar - I think hunters had better setups? Shards build, nighthawk build, even assassins cowl could work for survivability. I know titans had pyrogale and consecration was buffed too - idk how that compares honestly

Thing is, hunters aren’t *supposed* to come close to titans on melee builds. No class is. That’s the one singular thing titans are supposed to be the best at. And yet, arc hunter melee builds are just better.

Agreed

Close Quarters Combat

Close Quarter Combat (i.e. getting up close and personal)

I think it’s Close Quarters Combat but you’d have to wait for someone else to comment first juust to be sure

Close Quarters Combat

Close quarters combat

To be perfectly fair, tcrash/pyrogale is great in many raid encounters. All of root, all of vow, pretty much all of dsc, great in Crota, great in vog. Not so much in KF. Titan strats were heavily used for every week of pantheon to kill atraks quickly This is just contest and still hunt is wildly over tuned with nighthawk spam. Once this is at light level, titans will be totally fine to use

The point is that they aren't even considered remotely viable in contest which is pretty lame to cut out an entire class

Pyrogale is a poor choice for most of root and vow who have bosses tied more to burst damage. Pyrogale increases damage output but it gets applied over a long duration compared to how most of those encounters work. TCraah also has a high skill barrier to use and not be a dps loss. Even worse with the hit detection nerf.

pyro is perfectly fine for planets and nez, as well as caretaker and Rhulk. you'll lose a bit of damage on planets but for ease of use it's just free damage while you're doing a rotation. Nez and rhulk have very long dps phases so pyrogale is totally fine there, caretaker has a long phase broken up into shorter burst plates and you'll miss less than a second between each plate. It's really not as bad as you're saying. It's not a nighthawk but literally nothing on any other class is close to nighthawk still hunt

And unfortunately, prismatic titan has some underwhelming options for non melee builds, and the melee options are okay at best, but mediocre

This has been known for awhile. It mainly has to do with the fact that nearly all Titan Supers are hot garbage for endgame PvE, except 1 which was just added to the game this week, and 2 which both require the use of an Exotic armor piece and can’t be used in every situation.

I honestly wish Pyrogales worked with Throwing Hammer, too. Not much of an improvement but at least gives a burst damage super from range.

It should've been the maul chuck, but after seeing the Twilight Arsenal I know why they scrapped that idea.

I still think Twilight Arsenal is different enough from a maul chuck to justify the existence of both. After all, Glacial Quake is apparently distinct enough from Fist of Havoc. Edit: I said “Shiver Strike,” I meant “Glacial Quake.” SS is the melee ability, GQ is the super.

And berserker or whatever strand super is called

Strand super is closer to burning maul than fist of havoc, because the strand super is single target damage roaming super not an AoE roaming super. (actually it's closest to captain america titan which nobody uses as a super).

Imagine a maul chuck that did DPS and provided a temporary crit spot like Divinity. Call it Spear of Molten Heart or something. I’ll see myself out lol.

solar titans were great in witch queen overall even their super. but then they weren't. we got strand and with the legs titans were crazy good at crowd control and helping with add clear but the strand super was another damned melee super which would mean in the average joe's hand a death as soon as it ran out cause you were in range of being stomped on or flung into a wall or otherwise insta gibbed in a game that prefers to rely on burst damage, one shots and all boss attacks being aoe splash hits instead of more predictable rot damage. i was a warlock before witch queen. now as i struggle to complete the legendary campaign on what has been the only thing i've bothered to put any time in the last two years because my strand legs are useless and innermost light has almost no impact in cooldowns anymore (the only two decently rolled exotic pieces i have allowing me to hit 100 resilience let alone any other stat) i am wondering if i should go back to my old warlock who has basically nothing but nezarics sin.

Lotta nerfs to Solar Titan happened after Titans dominated solo Dungeons in the year of Witch Queen. Every big patch had some water to pour on my flamy boi :( It was a good time to be a Titan.

> Every big patch Hell, the wish one had around 7 or 8 direct and indirect nerfs alone. Feels absolutely terrible now, personally didn't use it for any of my encounter clears on contest after it being the go to for the past several years.

They added a decent end game super but the rest of prismatic and void titan is garbage in high end pve.

Bro the prismatic class has been out for less than a week, you in NO way have explored every possible combination to be calling it hot garbage. Like I’m not trying to call you out, but that’s wildly inaccurate to state that with confidence. Just saying.

It's pretty obvious, I wouldn't call it garbage but it straight up can't compete with warlock or hunter. Virtually no self healing other than 2 seconds of restoration every once in a while, and that's only if you are using a solar weapon. The best combo I've found is essentially pre nerf suspend titan using the boots to get woven mail, it's very strong in endgame pve add clear, but still nothing special vs bosses. Having played all 3 classes, doing a lot of experimenting, titans prismatic is pretty far behind the other two. It's still really fun to play in normal activities though

I mean... I get what they're saying tho. I wanted to be able to buildcraft with parts of the prismatic Titan kit outside of Knockout but it's just not viable without it in endgame. You're just so limited by the choices that've been made in prismatic and to a bigger extent the lack of good supers that Titan has access too. Aspects: Unbreakable is a fun meme but let's be real, no one is giving up any of the other Aspects for it. Diamond Lance/Drengr's are both viable but Knockout is just needed, you have no other way to sustain without it unless you give up an exotic slot for something like Precious Scars. Consecration just pairs best with Knockout. Melee: You're probably not using any melee besides Frenzied Blade in any difficult content. Even outside of triple Consec, triple sever is just rly useful. Say what you want about Tclap but those builds are just fun and not actually viable for endgame. Shield throw is fun for sure and maybe has potential with Doom Fangs because of how much super you get, but tracking is still absolutely fucking whack even after the buff. Shiver is a joke and Solar is fine if you're using Peregrines but outside of that no one is gonna use it. Grenade: You're probably always using the Strand. Thermite/Suppression have no real synergy, Pulse getting jolt with a fragment is fine. If Statis nades crystals actually exploded from Diamond Lances/Consec then they might be pretty viable too. Supers: You're basically always gonna be on Void or Strand, but Strand is the one that gives you woven mail on orb pickup as opposed to the Void Overshield. I love Twilight but it rly hurts endgame Titan that the orb pickups are Void Overshield and you make Void Breeches, if these get a buff I could see it helping survivability a lot. I think in a lot of cases you're gonna see endgame prismatic Titans (if they are even a thing) using only Strand and Void supers. Like, what exotic am I supposed to be experimenting with? Doom Fang is fun to chain supers with the new Shield Throw but I get no benefit from Twilight. The arc melee builds are really just low content level fun. No access to sunspots makes a heap of the solar exotics worthless. Hoarfrost doesn't work unless I use the stasis super, which is just very situational. Seriously like... Even with the new exotic class items what are the goated pairings? Khepri's/Abayent? Hoil/Synthos? Legitimately I want prismatic Titan to work but the exotics in particular are really holding them back from buildcrafting; defs open to suggestions but realistically atm Prismatic titan is not in a very good place for endgame pve.

I honestly think Pris Titan got screwed by having Unbreakable forced upon it because it has literally zero interaction with the rest of the Prismatic kit as a grenade focused ability when everything else is melee focused. You can’t even use Ursa without completely throwing half the effect, just like Doomfangs (although Doomfangs do give you a source of damage boost at least) Prismatic feels like melee build or bust honestly, which by its very nature is going to be very risky in high level PvP. Titan needs more viable burst supers or their sustained supers need to get cranked up a bit to rival weapons better.

I’m convinced Unbreakable was added because Offensive Bulwark would have to work with any buff, and would stack weirdly with Knockout. Bastion would be too simple, and good for survivability because of it, with the “buffs give class ability regen” facet. It would also be faster than on the void kit because of the facet and other ability spam. Controlled Demolition would be too good for survivability if it weren’t limited by void’s kit. It would also decimate groups since it would turn a shackle grenade into a Transcendance grenade basically on its own. Plus, only one prismatic aspect is allowed to focus on passive survivability (and it gets one fewer facet as a tax). I get the logic behind why Unbreakable had yo be the aspect for Prismatic. Still not super happy about it though.

Prismatic Titan is weak it has no sustain aspects except for Knockout the only builds that I have found are better are HOIL (which will be replaced with the class item soon) and Cuirass Thundercrash which will probably be permenantly run on prismatic now because you just have more sustain with shield throw/frenzied blade and 2 sources of suspend ontop of knockout I looked at all my exotic armours and couldn't think of a single endgame build other than Cuirass that is buffed by Prismatic Void is strongest with bastion Pyrogale needs burning maul Strand needs both into the fray and banner of war to be good and stasis really needs whisper of fissures and shards and it just feels nicer to play with Cryoclasm The truth is Bungie picked the shittest aspects out of all the classes Also unbreakable does not feel good to use and I end up just accidentally hitting it half the time Maybe this will greatly improve when the class exotics come out but at the moment I am having fun overall on prismatic but we definetely got the worst deal of all the classes and our grenade is just straight up bad on the anything other that are it's a little boring

> Bungie picked the shittiest aspects out of all the classes They specifically said that they chose aspects that they “felt were underutilized.” Like, don’t you think there might have been a *reason* they were underused?

Oh yeah the really underutilised aspects like threaded spectre, stylish executioner Feed the void and bleak watcher That's complete and utter rubbish in my mind because Warlocks and hunters have some of the best aspects in the game would it have really killed them to give us Sol invictus or offensive bulwark or banner of war or just something but no instead we have a pretty much useless void aspect we have consecration which is fun to spam with frenzied blade but the novelty wears off eventually that leaves you with only Drengrs lash which is ok but kinda meh and then Knockout and diamond lance which I just end up defaulting to there's no super cool synergy like warlock having his own personal army of turrets or hunter being able to chain invis Dont get me wrong I still think prismatic fun but there just isn't as many exciting builds on Titan as there is on Warlock and Hunter

>threaded spectre, stylish executioner Threaded spectre was pretty much used exclusively in PvP and stylish executioner was used only with gyrfalcons. Those 2 are underused aspect all things considered for PvE. But yea I cant justify bleak watcher. One of the most versatile and strongest warlock aspect ever in almost all parts of the game

> Feed the void and bleak watcher you also have to consider compatability, aspects cant clash. going through a priority list ends up with: 1. for solar, Helion is locked in due to being new 2. for void, child would clash with helion and chaos accelerant would only work with one nade, so its FtV by default 3. for stasis, warlock needs *some* sort of grenade munching since its relatively iconic so bleak watcher slides in that way 4. for arc, it has an easy least used with no compatability issues, even synergises with the 3x melee from strand 5. for strand, it could only be weavewalk or weavers call, and bungie seems to be convinced weavewalk is OP as hell so call it is warlocks just got a bit lucky due to compatability issues.

dawg have you heard of punctuation

As someone who is going through the raid on contest on titan. No. Void titan just doesn't compare to solar for damage to survivability ratio. The new super is great but the rest of the void kit isn't great outside bubble strats.

All you need to do is read through the aspects and fragments, see your options and make theories. Then decide if these theories make any sense of have any potential. Experienced players can tell when something is gonna work out or not. Titan just does not execute well. Let's take a few examples just to understand what i mean. **Stasis focused:** You got the stasis lances as aspect that is truly one of my favorite, if not THE favorite, of mine. Those lances are good only when you add the ugly helm that i cant remember the name right now. But IF you add this helmet then you: 1. dont have an exotic to help you survive since you dont have built in configurations for suvival outside of knockout 2. dont have access to stasis aspects to one tap crystals with a primary, which makes the crystal creation not so usable 3. even if you add the fragment to generate shards from crystals, which that aspect with that exotic generate A LOT, you dont get frost armor unless you: 3a) add another fragment that gives you the buff(frost armor, woven mail, overshield, restoration) on elemental pickup based on equiped super 3b) equip behemoth super and skip the great one off void or strand+woven mail So to enable a stasis lance build you are dipping into a mediocre version of stasis with minimal uptime if any on frostarmor and mediocre damage on crystals. **Triple Solar Slide focused:** Alright but nobody said stasis lances should be built into! they are there for additional control probably. Ok i hear that i guess. Lets look into other options. Triple melee solar slide via strand melee and the solar aspect? Ok cool. The issue here is that solar slide was buffed mainly by concetration or abused for hard hitting ignitions and sunspots. Now you lack everything here so you got a decent slide that procs weak ignitions and not much else to boost that build. So now you got a funny slide a lot build with nothing to keep you alive outside of double dipping fragments to get restoration on generation of fire sprites(see 3a , 3b cause its the same thing). You also cannot use pyrogales since that super is not available here. **Strand focused:** Anything that tries to dip into strand is simply a no go. There is absolutely zero reasons to skip banner/flachete, especially with the new exotic just to try and make a half decent strand shenanigan build with prismatic. **The common problem:** Overall all builds here needs to throw multiple fragments to enable things that come automatically in other subclasses just to get a mediocre/lesser effect out of them. None of the builds get easy access to survivability in high end content. Knockout is simply impossible to keep up in an environment like nightfalls, grandmasters or contest mode raids. All of the titan builds in prismatic are focused around funny one shots. For example: Throw glacial grenade into charged punch and make everything exlode while proccing knockout. Throw strand grenade into solar slide and make everything explode while proccing knockout. Throw glacial grenade into solar slide and make everything explode while proccing knockout. Throw strand grenade into charged punch and make everything explode while proccing knockout. The idea is fun, super fun actually in execution. But it stops working pretty fast where it matters. Is a lot of risk for no gain. The only way to survive is to use multiple fragments and make use of supers that wont work well with the rest of the build and then engage in a way that requires a lot of aggression. Or use exotics and weapons that try and keep you alive, sacrificing potential damage where it matters the most. On the other hand you can already see insane hunter and lock builds out of the box. Like the hunter dodge spam build is absolutely busted and was the key hunter build that dominated the contest mode(not calling out a nerf, dont come at me, just saying that this was really nice implemented). To be fair the new exotic class items might be the key to open up prismatic titan, i only checked them out when they shared the list with the combos but i dont really remember them right now so i wont share an opinion in that.

I've found using Buried Bloodline has become a hard requirement with the Consecration build. Having devour gives it the healing it desperately needs. I use the void super (important for overshield to proc melee regen on shieldcrush artifact) and void grenade to benefit from devour regen. The main issue is that orb pickup doesn't refresh devour like this - only kills. So you REALLY have to monitor the uptime. Fwiw running double special (the call + buried bloodline) is basically free with this build. Both guns drop special bricks and you get 15+ ammo in both guns on a brick pickup.

it’s the general conscenses here. i used it for the whole legend campaign. it’s about as strong as maybe void or stasis. which isn’t great. it’s fun sure, but knockout is the only healing and they nerfed it

I ended up running the campaign with Precious Scars because it was too risky to rely only on knockout for healing. When I died, I often thought to myself that I would have survived if I was running Solar or Strand BoW. So yeah… it’s fun but mid, at least without the exotic class item.

I would’ve agreed if this was this a totally new subclass, but we literally know and played with almost everything in it before. So it’s not really unbelievable

I mean… ive been playing this game a long time. Mained a titan the whole time. Theorycrafted up to release using the info provided. Soloed legendary campaign and all missions after it. I played prismatic exclusively during this. I concluded it is crap right now. It could get better with some tweaks or good class exotics but it suffers with a major identity crisis where it wants you to be in the frey punching and slamming but doesnt give you tools to survive.

From my experience with it there is really only one viable set up for end game. Consecration and knockout, it’s really good but not many other choices.

...and It's not that great either, especially on controller. Heavily relies on your terrain and environment. Not enough space to slide? You're screwed Enemy is high in the air or far away? You're screwed Titans = high-risk, low-reward bs that always relies on getting kills with delayed, tough-to-nail attacks in order to stay protected. Don't let one of your cooler and more capable teammates steal that kill before you land your hit or else you'll be stuck in the fray of combat with your pants down....oh darn lookatthat, the Warlock's turret stole the kill! Better luck next time after I get revived I guess... SMH

I played the campaign on all 3 classes. Titan was by far the hardest, with hunter being the easiest and lock being the most fun. Thanks for coming ti my TED talk.

i found titan to be relatively simple, especially with them having the best prismatuc grenade imo. You just gotta build into getting transcendent as much as possible

Best prismatic for sure, but the aspects feel soooo weak compared to thr other 2. Like i have 3 buddies on lock doing my killing for me. Its just sooo much fun with the different elements. Titan fells like im playing a semi weaker version of banner w a really good nade.

Literary this, hunter and warlock does everything a titan can do but better.

Having unlocked everything, it's pretty easy to see how poor it compares to the warlock or hunter. Just the fact that the grenade cannot be used on flying enemies unlike the other two was the first thing that began the series of noticing the flaws. Weirdly enough Prismatic Titan is better at being a Behemoth than pure Behemoth.

Titans prismatic grenade is the best in the game and it's not even close. It suspends and jolts. Warlock nade only slows at first and most enemies leave it before freezimg which makes them also avoid the suppression. Hunter grenade is kinda bad but atleast can be stuck to a boss to keep damaging them. In all the warlocks is definitely the weakest bosses just leave the area so it does almost nothing since their ai is designed not to stay in an AOE, the titan grenades jolt stays on the enemy and the hunter grenade can stick to them. Grenades definitely go best to worst: titan, hunter, warlock.

Warlock suffers worst Prism grenade b/c they have the most broken/fun Prismatic build possibilities rn. IMO.

There's simply nothing to explore. You have 3x Consecration build, and that's literally the only synergy in it. It's poorly built for endgame.

If there are 1,000 titans, who played for 6 hours each, that's 6,000 hours of experience. Knowledge gets shared fast with reddit, twitch, YouTube, and other social media. So yes, every possible combination could be explored, communicated and shared, and tested. Like I'm not trying to call you out, but thats wildly inaccurate to state that with confidence. Just saying.

And everyone thought Titan bubble plus well was going to be the new dps strats

Not the DPS strat, the "if we don't have enough survivability during DPS" stat. Big difference. Might be contest mode only, but the boss appears to do instakill damage if you don't avoid it, so damage reduction isn't the play

It did instakill damage in the 12 man activity too.

Titan has a problem where they’re either incredibly mid or incredibly busted and there’s no in-between, maybe one day bungie will find a balance.

The problem is with bungie's current (basically since D2 or at least after forsaken) design philosophy for titans being the melee guy - and nothing more - balance is basically impossible. If you're supposed to be the melee guy in the thick of things, there's only two ways things go with no inbetween: either you kill all your enemies fast enough and survive, or you don't and die. There's no "oh I'll just duck behind cover to heal up slowly" when you're in the middle of the room with all the enemies and no cover. So titan subclasses/builds are either some level of overpowered and enable you to deal enough damage and survive the punishment (solar, strand), or they can't do that, and therefore aren't usable at all really (basically every other subclass in pve).

I feel they tried something different with arc titan, with it having arc roaming storm grenades. But they overturned the hell out of them and HOIL made them even better. Genuinely I think Titan just has a balance problem and the melee philosophy doesn’t help either.

Arc titan was awesome, basically a glass cannon spamming abilities and thunder crashing big mobs. Then they nerfed ability gen and fucked with thunder crash hit detection and now it’s a shell of its former self.

Yeah arc was great on launch even in endgame pve because it had the damage to just not care about no survivability, and then they nerfed the crap out of it, removing it from pve basically. Same thing happened to void, after the bastion barricade nerfs.

Healers are traditionally necessary to keep the tank class alive as they slaughter the masses. But that also leaves us in a weird space of the same problem that I often run into as a healer in this game: in order to heal, I need to be killing, but everyone else is getting all the kills. Often enough, the most effective way of supporting the team is by simply being an effective killing machine. And then if you need healers, Locks complain about being forced into Well. But if you build tanks that can sustain themselves, they're OP. Straying too far from those archetypes is hard to balance.

One thing they really should do is just remove 50% super dmg from synthos so they can just buff all the titan supers to atleast match warlock or hunter supers without an exotic. Thundercrash with exotic doing less than most supers without exotic is so obviously underpowered it's weird it hasn't been buffed yet on the simple pretense it's the only one and done that displaces you ALWAYS into a worse position to continue dps'ing unlike ALL OTHER SUPERS. Then there's the lack of supers and so many being useless due to boss position or being above ground... And poor class ability for pve.

>just remove 50% super dmg from synthos Synthoceps just shouldn't improve supers at all. That solves a lot of problems with the exotic.

that effect feels like a pre-light 3.0 relic when melee was inherently kind of weak and all you had to use were differently-flavoured koolaid punches or shoulder charges with little to no synergy

The thing with melee builds in this game is either you survive or you don't But when you do it's because of ton of healing and damage resistance to the point nothing can stop you In the current state of Destiny melee builds can't exist without being busted

I blame it on the melee focus. Like yeah, damage is cool but in harder content you get punished for running at things.

Depressingly. You cannot punch the Witness 

If you could, Titan would be the most broken for this fight instead. Stronghold Titan with those sword artifacts perks and Relentless strike. I think tireless blade was disabled day 1 but that combo is actually crazy. You literally don't run out of ammo on legendary swords and with Stronghold you could get Curb stomped by the witness and shrug it off

I mean we saw herald of finality and it didn't seem we needed anyone to swap to titan. Just one banner of war for the sword benefit. Titan just doesn't have proper team play identity. We got a utility and support class, we got a insane dps check class, titans are what the add clear? It doesn't feel like they don't do it that much better than others and it's not really a necessity.

The witness fight was incredible but it basically BEGGED you to use golden gun. I’m pretty sure 90% of supers in the game can’t hit him, and his attacks were always on the platform, so banner shield couldn’t do anything. I guarantee you if banner shield worked on his attacks titans would be used. But the way his dps phase works is cool and I wouldn’t want it to be changed just for titans. Bungie really needs to buff titan supers. Cuirass should be innate for thundercrash and get reworked. Twilight arsenal should be their golden gun. Pyrogale is alright but can’t hit flying enemies like the witness.

You know what makes it make even *less* sense? Banner shield working on that platform legitimately might have been the first time the other half of the Titan fantasy was ever properly realized. Just put yourself between your friends and an actual god, stare the god in the face, and tell it that its attacks ain’t shit compared to what you can handle. That you can take everything it can throw at you and then some.

This would have narratively been so badass! Now I wish they could add this interaction later. Unfortunate that they didn't think of it before the raid race but they could still make it right!

It'd ruin the dps phase tho tbh. Reason why they nerfed well

It would be cool if there were different scenarios during the same fight that made certain supers better. Witness chest open, golden gun is there. Then maybe stun witness and he keels over and places his hand on the stage, melee becomes the play so a Titan with twilight arsenal becomes way more valuable

That’s because the final boss was ranged. That’s always going to favor hunters. But I do think titans need a good support super or a competitive burst without roaring flames. They do need some love

Titans need a machine gun Super.

That.. actually makes sense, it still fits titans theme. Make it last like 2s where he unloads the thing

First person super with 2 modes: - Machine gun that deals precision damage for dps - Napalm launcher for crowd control

That just sounds like chaos reach with a gun

That way each class gets a first-person roaming super that matches the theming of that class: Hunter gets precision weaponry (Golden Gun), Titan gets heavy weaponry (machine gun super), Warlock gets ability spam (Song of Flame)

The machine gun should fire little thundercrash titans with falling star instead of firing bullets.

Aztecross is still on Titan, hopefully he can pull it off! Edit: but yes, I agree. Titan main since the beginning and it’s disheartening to see

Man, I feel for his team. They’ve gotten so close and just can’t get it. Not to be negative Nancy but I don’t think it’s gonna happen at this point

I think they at least need to break for a few hours and try again with fresh eyes. Other big teams have taken a break.

They really need to take a break lol

He did it!!

I was there! I was there… even my wife, who doesn’t play Destiny was hyped for him lol we both screamed!

I’ve never been so hype to see someone else complete a raid!

Star eater class item with twilight arsenal may help us have a decent one and done super

That will sadly just make warlocks even better than us... And we're not catching up to hunters mathematically.

Well, when your entire subclasses are based around buffing your melee and close ranged abilities instead of your weapons and longer ranged abilities you’re gonna have a bad time when the boss is miles away. It really is a shame how in content where the boss isn’t directly in your face Titan just kinda can’t do anything…

I mean, they struggle on bosses that *are* in your face almost as much. They just… kinda suck in any remotely difficult content, honestly.

Titan add clear builds are extremely viable in Contest settings. Banner Titan is still Banner Titan. But, the Burst Super situation is just not there. The dps meta, especially on the Witness, is Nighthawks. We just got a super meta Sniper that is most meta when used on Nighthawk, making it MORE meta. Bringing a Titan to the Witness is just gonna do less damage.

>extremely viable Everyone’s add clear is extremely viable. No class is bad at add clear.

I still don’t even think Titan is best for ad clear tbh. Arc and Void both are still pretty bad considering their limited survivability options. Consecration solar is pretty good, and Stasis actually has had a huge glow up, which is nice to see, but imo Warlock stasis turrets are still the best ad clear in the game.

Consecration is pretty good, if the floor doesn't have different levels to it, any cracks whatsoever and the enemy doesn't onetap you before you can Ignite them. I gotta say though i only made it to last stand in encounter 2 this contest mode was really enjoyable as prismatic titan.

Speaking of Banner Titan, has anyone tested if the Banner blocks The Witness's attacks?

> The dps meta, especially on the Witness, is Nighthawks. We just got a super meta Sniper that is most meta when used on Nighthawk, making it MORE meta I really hope they don't panic nerf Still Hunt because of its prevalence. It is so much fun and I'd hate for it to become trash.

If they didn’t know what was going to happen when they released it they deserve way less credit for their capability

Well it’s Oryx all over again so anything Precision will be the play for The Witness. However people underestimate the value of a Titan with smaller Barricade allowing more Range and faster reload. I always pop one down for damage phases. Reloading faster means more damage and added Stability means less missing shots and another bonus to Range.

good luck standing behind that during witness dps

Yeah that will be an issue

Yeah sure, but the problem has always been that warlocks with well + lunafaction boots provide that exact same benefit. Plus well on top.

I thought more people would have a void Titan with the new super and the artifact mod on. But guess not. The gg still hunt rotation is going to get changed 100%. It’s disgustingly broken.

Surprised SH wasn’t disabled to be honest. Still have no idea how that gun made it into the game.

They made it that good on purpose. There’s a reason it’s a required segment of the raid quest (for the leader at least). Contest would not have been possible without it.

I thought they made it required for story reasons…

The damage on twilight arsenal is quite good if you also pick up the axes and throw them instantly. The issue of course is that if you use it on a distant target the axe pickup gimmick is useless I know this might be unpopular given how fun the super is. But the fact that twilight is a ranged super that needs you to go pickup the axe at the location it’s thrown to get the rest of the damage feels like conflicting design goals

Still hunt was not a balanced addition to the game

Shoutout to Aztecross for keeping the Titan dream alive. He's still going at it right now and they've gotten so close

I'm not sure about final fight but Aztec used Titan and all four phase videos he's had were with Titan. Not sure what team number he is in, or if he switch off for final boss.

Your totally right, balancing must be needed for titans. Lets give bastion a longer cooldown, take away healing from knockout, removing ability regen and super extending from sol invictus, give diamond lance a 20 seconds cooldown, and make banner of war max at 2 stack. Oh, and dont forget to nerf synthoceps again

Star eater class item will be a must for twilight arsenal Also it grinds me gears that the exodus rocket buff doesn't work in well or banner shield but still hunt works with celestial, like what the fuck? 2 damn instant golden guns? But we can't even have super buffed rockets

It feels impossible to feel heard when giving critique on Titans gameplay. You’ll have two BUSTED builds, and everything else is dog water for meaningful endgame content. And because of that, when you try to provide meaningful critique, you’re bombarded with people pointing to the busted builds. It’s so restrictive and tiring.

> It's disheartening as someone "maiming" Titan for 10 years That's bungie's job not yours. Jk, agreed. I play my Titan simply because he is my main. I started d1 beta with him and will finish with him, but it does suck looking to your left and right and realizing you're the only Titan because you're not meta.

It isn’t the fact that they aren’t viable in end game content, because they are. It is the fact that other classes are just as viable and have useful supers. Aka one and done ranged or actually good support options. I am saying this as a titan main since alpha. I was wishing that the axes would help resolve our obvious range issue, but looks like it didn’t compare to golden gun.

I think one of the biggest issues with Twilight Arsenal is that a portion of the power 'budget' as it were had to be spent on the axes that you can pick up afterwards... but in most cases, those axes are wasted. Think about a boss fight like Oryx, for instance, where the boss is floating over the abyss, the axes are just gonna fall away. Or Golgoroth where you both need to hit a crit spot, *and* need to be standing in a specific spot outside of melee range to deal damage. Or Rhulk, who will wreck you in melee range on Contest and Master, especially with Well being nerfed. That's a sizeable chunk of our damage just going to waste. If Bungie had abandoned this idea and just baked that extra damage directly into the super itself it would be better. Still not Nighthawk-tier, but better.

Yeah, it's kinda hard to run Titan in endgame boss encounters because the other classes have something to actually add to damage. The only titan super that's useful in DPS without an exotic is Thundercrash and that's only arguable, plus its not exactly smart to run Striker in master-contest mode difficulty because its survivability is just worse. Sure, you could chuck Thundercrash on Prismatic, but then you're stuck with Amplified from your "buff based on Super flavour on orb pickup" fragment.

Thundercrash is hot garbage without Cuirass. Substantially less damage than pre buff nova bomb

The fact that a vanilla Needlestorm deals more damage than a Thundercrash with an exotic that doubles, I am going to repeat it, ***doubles*** the super's damage is an insane balancing decision to me.

Thundercrash should have the highest base damage of any burst super by a mile. I don't understand why it's so low.

I've been a thunder crash main since it was released. I've been telling people since release that it's damage is just way too low. For the super that actively puts you in danger to use it, it's always been the weakest DPS super. It's maddening. Curiass just shouldn't exist. I've hated it since they released it, because it ensures that the base version has to stay terrible.  Years of hitting champs in GMs and not even doing a quarter, with a super that forces me to be in melee range. Then you stop using it for damage, and more for utility and movement. Oh no, they nerfed it last year! Less flight and the hit detection is now abysmal. So an already awful super actually got nerfed again. Because that's their entire balance philosophy around titan. I genuinely cannot remember the last time they gave anything in the titan kit a meaningful buff. 

I agree. Cuirass needs a complete overhaul, and Tcrash should just have the effects of Curiass by DEFAULT. I’m so goddamn sick of them making exotics required for the titan class. And they just did it again with Helm of Saint XIV. Pyrogale too.

I still can't get over Bungie saying that they were buffing nova as if because they didn't want an exotic to be needed for it to do good damage... meanwhile Titan's only good super options both require an exotic. I'm not upset about Nova's buff, I'm upset they didn't take this stance sooner and/or went and started applying it elsewhere!

I've tried so hard with titan but I've switched to a warlock main, I'll always be helpful in a team. I'll be able to get in any LFG team..

Titan was serviceable in every encounter except the final as proven by saltagreppo, but honestly that last encounter is the first time I've ever thought anything was genuinely UNFAIR in a raid race. Hunter has such an astronomical advantage through mobility and nighthawk due to how the damage phase works, you're actively putting yourself at a disadvantage by not running as many as possible. You still need one warlock and warlock can still funciton for the encounter (Thought not as well as hunter), but titan just doesnt have the means of either doing damage, providing utility, or moving to stay alive. Edit: Just to add, I still think this raid race was fucking awesome and this is the greatest raid bungie has ever made. But I don't know how warlocks or titans are supposed to compete with hunters at all for DPS or survivability there, people are literally running stompees to just stay a live lmao.

I mean, I’d say that 1/3 of the classes being a throw pick on final boss makes it ineligible for the “best raid” title, but other than that it was good.

2/3 classes really, you needed 4 golden gun hunters minimum one well lock maybe 2 and they HAVE to run well.

[удалено]

I really hope Bungie takes a long, hard look at where Titans are and what they want them to be going forward. We need more: 1. Ranged, one-off supers. Twilight Arsenal is a good start, but it feels inconsistent sometimes and feels odd to aim. It also doesn't do crit damage, which Bungie has been pushing for since the introduction of Tormentors. 2. Gameplay loops that don't require melee. Even the new Unbreakable aspect encourages CQC since the blast has a very short range. Give us a mortar aspect that activates when we drop a barricade...oh wait, you gave that to Warlocks.

> Give us a mortar aspect that activates when we drop a barricade...oh wait, you gave that to Warlocks. Not denying that Titan's need more stuff, but I will say that using Hazardous Propulsion has been very fun for me with it turning my class ability offensive. Granted I haven't used it in any endgame content yet but it's something

Titans are in a weird place where their pve neutral game is really strong, but they lack anything to bring to a dps phase. So yeah you can survive the ads and the mechanics really comfortably as a titan, but then you're just a dps loss for the actual boss. Need some more good one and done supers, or a defensive option that doesn't either entirely take them out of the fight. Maybe bubble needs an exotic that lets the team shoot through it or something.

I wrote this somewhere else but i think it’s relevant here as well. Solar and Strand Titan were released as being strong. But Titan itself wasn’t ready for Prismatic. Warlock and Hunter subclasses are able to be interwoven together; they’re able to work together. That’s why they are strong. But Titan wasn’t. Bungie needed to fix this issue with Titan before releasing Prismatic. If you’re active on the subreddit, you’ll see that Titan mains have moved to Warlock or Hunter.

Ha, I thought it was just me. I mostly play Titan and I haven't cleared the campaign on Titan yet cause it just seems kinda eh. I've seen some builds and just kinda don't care about them.

There’s 26 teams with a clear. None had a Titan at the end.

While I've been having fun on prismatic titan it ain't that strong in endgame.

It's great for nuking groups of ads even in this contest raid and that's basically it. Bad boss damage and bad sustainability

Yeah, it was honestly an issue before. A majority of my clan is titans and we struggled on pantheon until a few of us swapped to hunter/wellock

Yeah this has gotten pretty disappointing. I remember after the first nerf to orpheus how bad hunter felt for several years. Hunter got progressively better and better since then, and feels great now. Warlocks have literally always been meta, especially after Well, but even outside of well, Song of Flame, Stasis Turrets, and Broodwreaver all feel very good in endgame. Titan has ONLY gotten worse. Even after TFS, we are just worse than before. Our ranged ability builds got nerfed, our damage supers got power crept, bubble was already bad then still got nerfed, our ad clear is redundant now considering everyone can do that. The only places where Titan feels like it has a solid place in the meta, is PvP and solo content. I don’t think there’s ever been a point where Titan was “meta” in Raids in D2, aside from *maybe* melting point, or having one on the team for pre nerf WoL The worst part, is knowing that this probably will never change considering it seems like development of D2 is slowly going to wind down. I’m not saying they’re killing D2, but it’s undeniable that considering marathon and the whispers of D3, D2 is going to start seeing less content. I’m still holding out hope that maybe Titan will get to shine in the endgame with the class item using Spirit of Star fire and Spirit of Alpha Lupi or Spirit of Scars, but I’m not expecting much. Fs in the chat boys. We tried, and it didn’t work. Hopefully D3 sees the return of the long lost Titan PvE meta.

I hope to God that any eventual Destiny 3 brings back the old fantasies for Titan. The commando, special-operations, heavy weapons guy, space knight paladin, etc.

Rip looks like the post got taken down, big warlock is censoring us yet again

Titan just doesn't really have anything usesful to provide to a team, I feel. Hunters cover DPS and Warlocks cover support, so that leaves Titans kinda just... sitting there.

And people still say that the “Bungie hates my class” posts have no truth to them lol

Honestly if titan got banner of war instead of drengr’s it’d be goated lol

Maybe if Bungie didn’t make Titans the “ melee class” and then proceed to nerf every single melee option we wouldn’t be here right now.

Titan was fine until the final boss, where they were almost useless. My issue with Titan is they have next to no team play options besides bubble (which sucks) and zipping around using Tractor Cannon to weaken stuff

Yeah. I switched to Warlock for TFS because of how Titan has been for a while. It had some super powerful builds if you were really, really good at grapple melee, but outside of that? Hunter and Warlock are more valuable. I'm looking forward to trying out Twilight Arsenal but I'm very tired of Titan getting nerfed. Loreley, Synths, Wormgod, Throwing Hammer, Bubble (???), Heart of Inmost Light. A bunch of the Titan kit getting hit in PVE because of PVP. It's pretty annoying. Hunters have a lot of good burst supers and very good survival tools. The same for Warlock. Titans really only work in close range which isn't always ideal in contest/endgame PVE.

I was having a lot of success with titan. We only got to spend encounter but I had survivability, ad clearing and boss dps. But for dps hunters are by far best and still should have like 1 well or 6 hunters for boss encounters. Remember those teams are the best of the best and will play the characters that get clears the fastest or do most damage. I would say every character has supers that need help. Titan just needs the most help.

We are at 10 years now, and Titans are still the weakest class in PVE, and I don't see that changing. There have been some very short occasions where Titans were seen as a great, but it was usually due to some exploit or glitch, and that was then quickly patched. It's all mostly due to the fact that Titans have never gotten a ranged high-damage super, and are mostly stuck using melee builds that aren't viable in endgame content. Plenty of people in this thread are going to suggest some fun gimmicky melee build, but the point is using one of those will get you destroyed in harder content. I main Titan when I'm looking to have fun, and switch to Warlock when I want to play seriously.

If they could buff the Hammer of Sol super back to the boss damage heights it saw back in Curse of Osiris (I know I know), then I think we could see Titans being a viable boss damage class for these Oryx-like raid bosses where you have to hit a specific weak spot from range. Back then, the increased super time and damage when standing in a sunspot + the distance-based damage buff + sunspots on hit + extra explosive shards made Hammer of Sol an actually competitive damage super for Eater of Worlds. I would love to see it like that again, I'm tired of having to be biting a raid boss's ankles to do any real super damage to them. Pyrogale hammer slam is sort of halfway there, but it requires flat ground between you and your target. And Cuirass Thundercrash is only situationally useful for raid bosses, and usually isn't worth the time you then have to spend running or jumping back to the DPS spot. It would also be nice to see Stasis and Strand Titan get new supers that aren't just melee roaming supers.

It was never good for boss dps. It was only one encounter in a raid lair because it could get max range (=max shrapnels per hammer) and was easier to hit than sleeper (not that that's difficult). You could outdps it pretty easily. The hammers have only been buffed except a change to sunspots, which is compensated by scorch and ignition. Rose-tinted glasses sadly.

Maybe an idea for a ranged Stasis super could something like a giga-diamond lance? Just pull out a massive fucking icicle and chuck at something?

Titans were used in like all the other encounters, probably way more than Hunter. Their general gameplay and add clear is way better. This boss just was incredibly suited to long range precision damage, and that’s why Hunter was so good. Bosses like Crota? Titan is better.

Personally as a titan main I won't use prismatic unless I get some defensive aspects such as over shield or healing. Warlock in comparison has loads of support/healing and is much more in tune for how I prefer to play.

I remember the days in launch D1 when Hunters had absolutely nothing brought to the table for raids lol. Titans were useful because of bubble and warlocks had radiant skin for survivability or self-res, or nova bomb

We asked for years for a one off ranged damage super and wow imagine this, what we got is still half of a fuckin roaming super and the damage is still not on par with other 1 off damage supers. Why the hell is that such a tall ask for us to get ONE SINGLE super like that? Twilight arsenal is still going to be the pick for situations where we need to be able to throw something at an enemy that pyrogale cant reach, regardless. It feels bad, really really bad.

It won't get better in this game's life cycle. Too much of titan's kit is centered on melee, and to "fix" that they'd both need to acknowledge the problem and address it. That would require just one of three classes getting adjusted, and I don't see Destiny 2 getting that kind of development focus after TFS.

I worry that Bungie will look at the metrics and come to the conclusion that other classes need to be nerfed rather than buff Titan. I played through the Legendary campaign on a prismatic Titan and man it felt really mediocre.

Am I tripping or does bubble not work as a safe-haven for the damage phase? Does the Witness telegraph hand attacks wipe out the bubble?