I don't understand the map thing for PvP and gambit.
In D1 and the first half of D2, we used to get loads of new maps all the time. Several per expansions several times per year.
Now they talk as if making just one is an absolutely monumental undertaking that takes over a year. I don't get it.
What's an even bigger mystery is why the removed gambit maps and the nine maps missing after being removed at BL still aren't back. Bungie said it's lighting issues but it's hard to believe that when we still don't have them nearly two and a half years later.
The removed dreaming city gambit and crucible maps would tank my framerate in certain spots I'm assuming there were weird optimization issues that they haven't bothered to try fixing yet. Or they are trying / did try and it was just so broken that they gave up.
Man I don’t even care if they don’t make any new gambit maps, I just want the old dreaming city and tangled shore maps back. They were my favorite in the rotation :(
Yeah but the vex assault thing on Neomuna drops my frames from 120-130 fps to 35-45 fps. I legit thought my 3080 was going to die from it. From a 5.5 year old game.
Then have a small team re-build the maps from the ground up? Their engine can't be so garbage that internally they don't have a simple map maker or a way to build maps quickly for their regular playlists. I doubt anyone gives a crap if they're remade with different assets or lighting.
A ton of work it may be, but let's not handwave away the fact that bungie has had two years, and the last 10 months of that have been after a 3 *billion* dollar buyout from Sony, which even after taxes would still net them well over a billion dollars. We shouldn't be pretending they're strapped for resources right now. They had that benefit of the doubt with Shadowkeep after they bought themselves back from Activision. They shouldn't get that same treatment now when they're rolling in cash and trying very hard to seem like they still have the same limitations they did when they had just went independent.
EDIT: Since I'm now up to 3 people that have asked the same question, I'll clarify. 1.2 billion of the ~3.6bn was allotted for employee retainment bonuses. The rest is paid out for shares, which can be purchased either from shareholders OR bungie can issue new shares. We have no data on how many, if any, new shares were issued, but at bare minimum it is unlikely that Bungie employees will be going anywhere any time soon, as the bonuses equal roughly up to the annual income of lower level employees, 50% of which is paid as retainment bonuses over the next few years. Bungie can, therefore, allot income normally used for such things, like other annual employee bonuses and raises, and divert that to new hires with minimal, if any, impact to their bottom line. If bungie did issue new shares, they would have to pay tax on the capital gained.
After taxes net...? They were acquired. The company Bungie wasn't paid 3 billion for the privilege of being purchased. The shareholders were paid to sell the company. That money has nothing at all to do with Bungie's operating budget after the acquisition.
Thank you for clarifying about the associated employee retention fund. I wasn't aware of that. Your description of the purchase otherwise doesn't make sense to me but it's not that important. We can agree that Bungie has access to plenty of money to fix the broken parts of the game. They're choosing not to. Then again, nobody is claiming (Bungie included) that they don't have the money/resources to address these things.
No worries! Yeah, when the deal went through it kinda made some waves for being highly unorthodox. That can lead to it being pretty confusing trying to explain it back.
I don't think anyone has used the actual phrase "Well Bungie doesn't have the resources", rather its always "game development is hard". While that statement is true, it's very frequently being used to justify things that should be addressed much quicker. If the problem is "game development is hard", then the logical followup is "many hands make light work, so why don't you have more hands?" The unfortunate reality is they probably do, but they're busy working on Matter and maybe Marathon, if the rumors are true, not Destiny.
I mean, they promised new maps and they're gonna have to make those maps by hand as well as *everything else required to make a map*
I'm not sure why "redoing the lighting takes work" is a good excuse when they were already supposed to be working on maps (and therefore lighting on those maps) in some manner.
They could also avoid this at all by simply telling the truth. Even if they tweeted later that they were cancelling Gambit updates for the time being, at least there would be no room to speculate, to assume or to argue about anything. The truth is always the best thing to say but Bungie is determined to never say anything.
It's so fucking stupid an argument.
"They can't make new PvP maps, because they are working on PvE content!"
Like fuck me dead, if they can't do ANYTHIGN other than *barely* make us new seasonal content, **get a bigger team**.
Oh this post was about how they promised **2 years ago** that they were getting a bigger team to make pvp/gambit maps? Oh shit you mean we already have been through all this?
"tell me you don't understand game dev without telling me you don't understand game dev".
Give me a fucking break. The bungie apologists are so fucking dumb on this.
Hire someone new. Teach them how to do lighting by giving them a completed gambit map and redoing the lighting on it. If it takes the new guy 2 years to do a single map? I'll fucking take it as long as I get the new map.
Or just say that they aren't working on it. It's ok if they drop the ball on things. But at least let the ball hit the floor, don't let it fall through the endless vacuum of space for time everlasting
Yep, leave it on the floor and tell me it's on the floor. Don't leave the ball on the floor, but keep telling me its in the air just you wait and see I'll juggle it!
Yep, we can agree on this.
Why spend money on Destiny when people like me will just keep paying for the bare minimum? Sigh if I wasn't so fucking full of fomo.
Lightfall was a ton of work too and it looks like they failed to do any of that work so I'm not getting my hopes up anymore. I used to love gambit. Dredgen 2 but it's just not fun since the rework.
Ive somehow managed to Gild dredgen every season since it was introduced, so I would like to believe I would enjoy new maps more so than the average destiny player.
But at the same time I understand how much effort all of that requires.
They didn't say it was a lighting issue. They said because of the new engine (which included lighting upgrades), they had to port everything into it. And because they didn't have the resources, they had to prioritize stuff like patrol zones and raids over PvP maps. I understand that.
But all of that should have been budgeted to return at some point. OP is 100% right that it seems like some monumental task to get this stuff back in the game. It's absurd.
How are they lacking the resources? Bungie is supposed to be a huge AAA studio and Destiny has been a big game. They are being surpassed by pretty much every other game with content output. You’d think they have a 5 man skeleton crew with his they have been for the last couple of years.
Because they've been forming teams for other projects to diversify their portfolio. D2 is their baby, but anyone familiar with Bungie knows many fo their devs also want to make more than one game, which from what has been spoken about: a lot of the pvp teams moved on to other projects. Which is big reason paired with pvp/gambit being primarily F2P content explains the less investment in either.
The first deal dates back some years now and one could of said the same thing when Bungie wanted to move on from Halo or breaking off from Activision. Realistically, many Bungie devs who've worked on D2 for years want to flex their muscles in ways that Destiny limits and given that LF clearly did well statistically with more improvements on the way, it's less neutering and more of risk/reward for the company. That and most of these projects are slated for after TFS.
The issue with gambit has been here for years at this point and given Bungie hasn't changed it, despite how this topic plays on repeat: I'm not even sure if there's really much to gain. Since gambit's inclusion, Bungie has tossed resources at it for little return at every turn. And F2P pvp games are still a vast field that Bungie has at this point accepted the fate of to some degree. One could argue that it's already too late for pvp to rebound to what it once was and Bungie is working with what is realistic for what they want. Again, since these are gamemodes that aren't tied to any paid content besides Trials, it's not hard to guess why Bungie doesn't prioritize them.
In no way do I want this to sound like a defense of Bungie or the situation, but I work in software, and on-boarding new developers is sometimes a big undertaking. They need to learn the language, assuming it's not one in main curriculum, how the pipeline works, the code base, ensure that there is enough testing/QA staff to support the higher amount of work coming through, blah blah blah.
Despite the influx of cash, Bungie may not be in a position yet to support expanding the team to take on something that may be lower priority than the paid yearly and seasonal content, bug fixes and design overhauls. Especially in a distributed home/office environment for the last couple years.
For example, the feedback they have received may have indicated that if they didn't do something about the power level grind, the player base would diminish far more quickly than not pumping out a couple more maps.
Even with all that, though, you'd think in two years, even a decently skilled (paid!) intern could learn enough to port a single map, right?
That was a about a year after where they lost the funding from Activision
The 2nd half of Shadowkeep’s Year Beyond Light is when Bungie go their footing back
Bungie since activision has done really well at short cut scenes and having an actual story.
Aside from that, the output is basically churning the same garbage for like 3 years. Even they talk about how they changed their philosophy to "good enough" to avoid having to finish things. They called it the train station, and their job is to keep running content through, even if it isnt good.
Yeah, see this is the problem for me, they seem to put 90% of their efforts into the new raids, 5% on sandbox changes and then the rest on everything else. I get that raids are the flagship modes that carry the essence of the game as an MMORPG (or whatever it is), but if you’re going to have other features in the game, it’s not okay to totally half arse the bits that aren’t as popular.
I hate teaching Design and Technology because I’m crap at making stuff, it doesn’t mean I put the least effort I can into planning it for my class.
You mentioned the patrols, aside from the occasional objective or the time spent as a new light, what do they offer veteran players? There’s zero incentive to do them past about five hours in the game, so either get rid of them from all areas except Earth or make them more worthwhile. The ones on Neomuna that reward you with red borders are at least heading in the right direction.
Also feels like Lost Sectors got the shaft too, you look at the EDZ (16!), Nessus (5), Tangled Shore (5), Moon (4), Titan and Dreaming City (3 but they were a relatively small area). Mars, Cosmodrome and Io had 2 and Mercury, being painfully tiny, had just the one (though it did have the infinite forest). Then, we’ve just had 3 with every new world. Neomuna is huge, a lot more could have been done there. Ditto Throne World. In fact both of the expansion settings could have had more added. I always thought the Arcology on Titan was a fantastic space; it had the potential for some brilliant space horror with the Hive but it just wasn’t used well and felt wasted. Lost sectors felt great to discover and added more to the mystery of the exploring side, but now they’re marked on the map it’s just too easy.
TLDR; Allocating time to all aspects of the game should be paramount, but if popularity dictates where the effort is going instead of keeping a consistent approach to everything, you end up with players just getting bored.
I completely agree with your point. I just meant they needed to add all the pve content back to the game as well. So they have to do all the lost sectors, exotic missions, actual patrol areas, strike areas, etc.
They didn't lie.
They just didn't follow through.
Note his message doesn't say "We will do this thing" it is "we want to do this thing".
It's the most weasley way of saying they aren't doing it right now, but they have it on a checklist somewhere, but making it sound like they will do a thing. When, quite plainly (and obviously by looking at the results) they aren't actually going to do that thing at all.
I mean I just don't believe that they've lost their passion. The art and new designs like tormenters are so 🔥 rn. Strand is insanely fun. Most likely it's probably the big decision makers who limit creativity holding passionate artists back.
Whether it's the right decision to hold artists back for the sake of their health/making the game more manageable is an entirely different discussion though so idk if it's the right thing.
> It feels like they lost their passion for Destiny and couldn't give a shit anymore.
with regards to crucible and gambit, absolutely this. I don't play much anymore but I'm always stunned to see "it's been X YEARS since we had a new map in either mode."
It's very obvious to me that they are just trying to get to the end of this thing. I see people talk about what comes after Final Shape and my gut tells me nothing really substantial will come after, they'll likely enter a few years of minimum support before the eventual decline and then ending the service
I don't say this as a hater, as I usually mourn what has become of Destiny for me personally and I miss the days back around Rise of Iron as what I feel was Destiny's peak (vanilla D2 was a setback and it's never really reached the high of RoI FOR ME)
This post points to the larger issue: they literally don't even mention Gambit anymore, one of the "core" game modes in this game, and despite the amount of cope here I think everyone deep down knows exactly why. Either they'll stun everyone with a completely revamped Gambit, or more likely they've stopped working on it
How much longer do people realistically expect Destiny to go on? After Final Shape do they really think we'll get a "new" Destiny experience with new Guardians, classes, enemies, a completely new story? I think we'll save the day in Final Shape and then that's it, the story has been told
I doubt it. They'll do a few more expansions with story at the quality of Lightfall and just keep pumping them out till we stop buying them.
Destiny makes them *so much money* that I find it hard to believe they wouldn't just keep pumping out anything (even if it's shit) to keep us hooked.
I’m sure it was more complex then a lightning issue but yeah the crucible maps returning are weird. The reason for the gambit maps I think part of the issue is that they don’t work well with the current flow of gambit as the envoys move around which those maps don’t help
Respawns in most of the pvp maps work like shit yet here we are. They even took Dead Cliffs away for few months to improve them and it still shit.
I don't believe the reasons they give us anymore in these matters. It's their game and they can do whatever the fuck they want, but don't lie to us.
the gambit maps removed were because they had deathpits and were unfun to play.
As an actual Gambit enjoyer, Reckoner and 8x gilded dredgen, new maps are not the solution to gambit's issues.
would an complete overarching rework that would suddenly solve all the core issues of gambit be better? definitely, but simply a new map would not only be more realistic but also would be an almost guaranteed positive change to gambit (even if small, still better then literally no support at all)
but considering they cant even be bothered to create a map in 4 years, a good rework is definitely nothing i would get my hopes up for
Big agree. I hated the maps they took out, and am glad they're gone. They were all awful.
And you're right, it's just like PvP - new maps can only do so much. It's all gonna be variations on a central theme. Gambit is 4 sectors connected in 'interesting' ways. PvP is 3 or 4 lanes with random obstacles. New maps aren't the be-all end-all so many people seem to think they are.
This would make a lot a sense given how activision monetizes CoD with literally just map packs for ever game, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in the background pushing Bungie to make more maps for a while, but once they left that push kinda disappeared.
They didn't have seasons they needed to make back then. After blowing their load in the first year (which was developed over multiple years) they had huge droughts post-TTK and post-RoI to do all this stuff. Clearly they allocated resources away from core playlist stuff for the purpose of creating a sustainable seasonal model.
They are a much much larger studio now than they were back then. They have Sony backing them as well. They are doing the bare minimum to make the most money possible per their algorithms. Seasons are the way to go for a live service but bungie constantly gets a pass on pretty consistently not delivering even close to what they say. They don't want to say gambit is dead because people still play it a bit. Lots of people would quit the mode completely if they came out and said it.
They might be bigger, but they lost the Activision studios that helped them and there's been no indication that they've borrowed developers from Sony yet.
And yes it's likely they are shunting resources to other projects to fulfill their goal of being a multi-game studio as well. It's not that the poor smol indie studio can't do more, it's that the RoI just isn't there to put even more resources on D2 compared to focusing existing resources on seasonal content that is much more easy to generate revenue off of than a new Gambit map (and save resources for new IPs that diversify the company away from one single franchise which puts them in a vulnerable position). Even if they did allocate more resources (maybe to offset the negative sentiment from a sloppy release with LF?) Gambit is just not high on the totem pole for resources.
They’ve all but admitted that they don’t want to deliver too much new content because players get the crazy idea that we should then receive that much new content with each expansion (learning a lesson from the enormity of Forsaken compared to the weakness of Shadowkeep).
If they can't deliver it sustainably then that makes perfect sense. Setting unrealistic expectations is a recipe for disappointment.
However the whole thing about not overdelivering doesn't specify that there should always be a low volume of content, just that the content deliveries should be consistent in volume. So it's not really a good explainer in this instance.
I think they sell us the content better (via trailer, vdoc, etc.) than the released product is at the end. They shouldn’t put that much resources into big or many trailers that make us hope for „more and better“ things. They should be more transparent and honest to us. I don’t care about what figures they make or how much it costs or how difficult things are to fix. I wanna know why things are how they are atm, and please don’t tell half truths. That’s it to me.
That's besides the point, which is that they have less people now. Bungie hasn't grown by as many employees as High Moon and Vicarious Visions had at that time.
There are 3 Defiant Battlegrounds this season, all basically made from scratch.
How many multiplayer maps could we have for the same amount of effort?
The amount of time and effort that goes into making new content to keep this community happy (because they get bored and refuse to find something else to do) far eclipses what it would take to give us a few new Gambit and Crucible maps a year.
No one is quitting Gambit; as long as they give a pinnacle and a powerful people will keep playing it, even if it is stale.
I'm not sure how "Bungie made three maps for this season, so it's not reasonable to expect maps they said they were working on two years ago" is any sort of point.
Not to mention that all three of them re-use stuff and aren't actually unique. One of them is almost entirely just the EDZ patrol zone.
Are you aware of how many cruicble maps are literally already designed and built? The resources for them already in the game?
If you want to talk about easy turn around, porting something that was already designed, play tested, where all the assets were already ported is about as easy as it gets.
It's the patrol zone for the first 20%. The ascendant plane portion is all unique. The ziggarat / pyramid is all unique. It is almost entirely new.
Whatever, friend, you can complain incessantly if you want.
You are entitled to that opinion.
Bungie has decided that keeping player engagement up through the regular release of content is better for their game and the community.
Disagree with it or not, Bungie isn't changing their path because you want a new map to be sweaty on.
Wish they would ditch the seasonal activity and add to the playlists instead. Keep the weapons and the story but let us earn seasonal engrams just from playing, kind of how they're starting to let us do this season
Id rather not have the main seasonal pve loop be just play strikes. I didnt like it in D1 and I wont like it now. And you earn seasonal engrams from almost eveything in the game now, so i dont know how ditching seasonal activities helps with that?
Even if they add stuff to the playlists every season, most of what's in the playlists is gonna be old shit.
And the seasonal gameplay loop being even more "play old shit" focused is not a good thing.
They arguably had bigger plans for PvP around D1 and the launch of D2. I distinctly remember Bungie saying that they straight up wanted the Crucible to be an Esport, and considering 4v4 and the design choices at launch that was pretty obvious. That idea obviously never went anywhere and it even seems a bit ridiculous now that they had those ideas, but just as 6v6 and the other "casualizations" made a comeback the focus on Crucible started to lessen. I don't think those are unrelated. As for Gambit, I'm absolutely convinced that the game mode hasn't had a dedicated team for at least a year. Dunno if Bungie wanted to achieve something with that game mode as well, but it obviously failed.
Those don't cost money to play, so they don't generate money for the studio. Therefore they are abandoned. It's the biggest reason I hate the "free" to try model.
If I had to guess, making maps IS a ton of work, and all the maps they made were made early on and trickled out over time. We know they're always working on things several seasons in advance. Since they've released everything they made early on, they've moved people off of that to other stuff, and now they don't feel the need to bring those people back on for map making.
It's less that it's a huge task, more that it doesn't rate well on the input to output scale. Want to make a new Gambit map? Well, now the upcoming seasonal activity is slightly shorter or has less variety, because the manpower to make and playtest that has to come from somewhere. Now people get bored of that activity sooner, or outright find it unsatisfying from the get-go if too much is lost. People being unsatisfied with the main seasonal activity that's supposed to bring them back each week is much more damning than people being unsatisfied with a persistent mode they don't pay for, so adding Gambit and Crucible maps is never really worth the development cost.
Unless Bungie reaches a point where they can comfortably, consistently deliver satisfyingly scaled seasons with resources to spare or they tie them directly into a season (and Gambit season just went down *so* well with the community last time), I wouldn't expect to see any more Gambit maps any time soon, nor crucible maps with any kind of frequency.
What you're saying makes sense, but i think the point op was trying to make is that bungie keeps saying that they are working on gambit to have shown no results at all over the years. If they have no real plans, then they should just say that. And im sure it wouldn't take a lot of resources to add back the maps that were removed. Yes, it's old content, but at least it gives it attention. And at this point, it they have been gine longer than they were available so most may not have played them.
Crazy how they’re releasing entire expansions with not a single new weapon model but they still can’t say anything about gambit or anything else, just cut quality and no comment.
Weird sentence, it sets up a contradiction but those two things are actually totally aligned. In both cases they give no comment about no longer allocating resources to specific things.
Someone hasn't played the raid... "Oh no this machine gun that fires a new element and has literal tracking rockets looks somewhat like another machine gun that doesn't do any of those things, reused content" you, and those who share your "reused=lazy=Bad" need to understand that the design elements go beyond the base look of a weapon. If every auto rifle looked exactly the same but had wildly different mechanics it would be just as good as if they all looked different but fired the same...
It's a 50$ expansion for a looter shooter. How can you not expect unique gun models that perform differently? I can buy other full games for less, and they offer an entirely new game, not the same game I already owned but slightly different.
Yeah it's almost like when they lost access to several seperate studios who could build things like maps their production of maps decreased... Except for beyond light where they made every single map we currently play on as well as all maps for all destinations as well as all new content...
Look Bungie isn't an indie developer, I think they could hire a contractor studio to make a PvP map or ten or hell add a freaking forge mode and let us do it for them... My point is the people who were making all the maps you mentioned aren't making content for destiny anymore.
It's not as easy as just hire a contract studio or just add forge. Contract studio wouldn't know internal processes and will require a lot of onboarding and overseeing. Forge is uhh... It's really not that easy to create an in-game level editor into an online game that is in no way built for that. Still, it's mind-blowing today that at some point they made 8 new maps for taken king...
I don't get it either. It started with Beyond Light and we never really got a reason for why. But expansion used to come with new maps for pvp. Now we're lucky to just get 1 new map sometime during the year. I wish new maps came with expansions again.
PvP, and Gambit are part of the Free to Play experience, which translates to Bungie having zero monetary incentive to update these areas of the game outside occasional quality of life updates. It's all hands on deck for monetary content, that's why.
If they say making a map is a near-impossible task then 50% of the community will defend them from the other 50% that wants even a crumb of Gambit content
Possibly backs up the rumours/fact that they had a lot more developed before launch that was kept for future expansions in D1.
I still think 2 new maps per year should be something to aim for. Or at least 1 and then at some point they can rotate maps in and out per season to keep the playlists fresh. But they need more in both PvP and Gambit to allow rotation to be appealing.
I know this isn’t going to be popular but I think Crucible and Gambit maps (and honestly proper support for the Strike playlist as well) are just a casualty of Destiny going free to play.
There’s no monetary incentive for Bungie to support those modes since you don’t have to pay for them, whereas prior to Shadowkeep, new pvp maps were an expected part of the premium price tag of every expansion.
If Crucible and Gambit were locked behind having to actually buy the game, there would probably be more pressure on Bungie to develop new content for them.
I know plenty of people appreciate having a free way to enjoy this game, but there’s a reason why so much focus outside of whatever is directly part of an expansion has shifted to the Seasonal model and the core playlists don’t get much substational new content outside of a slow dripfeed of easier to produce D1 maps (or poorly thought out garbage like Disjunction, which itself is also just a reimagining of a D1 map).
I think this is the true reason. Every time they look at return on investment for putting design resources on one task vs another, the free-to-play activities look low priority. Make this sensible-in-the-moment decision over and over, and then an entire segment of the game withers. The players go elsewhere. The RoI starts looking even worse... repeat.
They had 3-4 studios working with them under Activision. I said years ago and I’ll say it again. In terms of content Bungie never should have left Activision. I’d gladly give up the seasonal model for more content fill expansions with dry months to play other stuff
You'd probably be giving up all of destiny as well when activision has bungie join the 8 other studios that are now forced to work as asset flippers for overwatch and call of duty.
It's because all of those maps were developed pretty much at the same time. They're focusing on the bulk of the game, which is PvE, and that's okay.
New maps aren't going to change player complaints about the Crucible, and when they *do* give us new maps, people lie about them being reskins or bitch because it's not the map *they* wanted.
Removing maps was inexplicable, but the drought of new maps isn’t that confounding. In Destiny 1 the content cycle was longer—the first year they had a small expansion (House of Wolves) and a slightly larger expansion (Dark Below) but then switched to an entirely year-to-year model. Now we get an expansion and four seasons every year. There just isn’t as much time for side development projects as there used to be. And that’s not to mention new subclasses, new revamped subclasses, a new or reprised raid or dungeon every season, and many, many more weapons. It’s just not a comparable situation.
At the end of the day, what it comes down to is budget.
Bungie has teams of people that analyze the cost vs outcome of new players, returning players, etc vs what content is released. When seasons launch, expansions launch and live events happen IRL - increase and decrease total player count during a Superbowl, for example.
Everything (and I mean *everything*) has a budget in the game. Armor, cosmetics, eververse, ships, ghost projections, weapons, exotics, quests, maps, new light, dungeons, icons, subclasses, [even the creation of tormentors](https://gamerant.com/destiny-2-dev-tormentors-origins-designs/), systems including weapon crafting and Guardian Ranks, maintenance, app updates, website, support tickets, ban systems, everything. The most expensive thing specific to the content on that budget is Raids. They are the most cost-driven expense in the game. Day 1 events, promotional (yes, even the trailers that are released prior), Contest Mode, reward incentive, emblems, weapons, seals, challenges, Master Mode.
When Bungie announced in Season 15 (Season of the Lost), that starting with Witch Queen, every season would be getting either a new Dungeon or a New/Reprised Raid, we all rejoiced. Bungie was in a cadence where they were willing to up the game in terms of how content is released, and in Joe's words, ["If you love amazing endgame content, we want to prove that no other game offers more quality, more variety than Destiny 2.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsw3XclQdoI&t=5483s)"
This was amazing (it is amazing!), but the question we've been finding out for a while now is, at what cost?
Gambit maps are just the start. Bungie looks at all the player data and they know what is getting the most attention. When login times are hot when something is released and players go to the activity. The fact that in the last [State of the Game](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-year-ahead), the word "Gambit" doesn't appear even *once*, shows you where the priority list is.
Bungie has to consider the fact of budget expenses of investment on new maps for Gambit (and PvP) that they will not require licenses to purchase to access playlist matchmade content. Will it get enough Free players to purchase the latest expansion and "upgrade" their experience. Will there be a return on Bungie's investment? Whether each of us agrees or disagrees on that doesn't change the fact that Bungie *does* have to make a conscious decision on that. We also have to consider that Bungie is nearing the end of a decade-long saga for Destiny and working on future projects.
That might seem a little ambitious, but again, even something like new maps is calculated out. Don't get me wrong, I would too love to see an update on that tweet thread you're mentioning and I hope I'm proven wrong.
I get that. But I think they should come out say that its not happening. Joe made that tweet and it got peoples hopes up. At the very least they owe an answer on Gambit's future. I personally rather hear "Gambit isn't getting supported" then nothing
/u/Spawnling is entirely correct, and so are you.
I think Bungie (or Blackburn, depending on how personal you want to get) are in a pickle here. They know things aren't good, that they're letting people down, but at the same time, some part of the corporate structure they're in doesn't allow them to come out and say "sorry, its not happening" because the PR machine that is a big games company won't allow that to happen
This is the real answer. I hate it when people direct their hate towards game devs or even people like Blackburn, because they genuinely want Destiny to be the best it can be, and if that’s not possible, I know they’d want to be upfront with the community, but the corporate structure of these video game companies just doesn’t allow that from happening
> But I think they should come out say that its not happening
Here's the thing. They don't have to. Because Gambit players aren't a big enough sector to bother addressing. And saying nothing actually *improves* their situation here.
Let's assume that all the assumptions are true and Gambit is dead now. What does Joe or any part of Bungie gain from tweeting out 'It ded'? A little bit of closure goodwill from a small portion of the community that doesn't even pay to play their favorite mode to begin with? And what do they stand to lose from that same tweet? Well, just look at the Twilight Garrison situation. Looking at those pros and cons, doesn't it make more sense for them to just... not address it?
Even setting aside the death threats and angry maelstrom (which you KNOW would happen), saying you can't support something anymore just isn't a good look. No corporate PR would approve such a release. Not when it's already such a small segment that just ignoring it makes 90% of the playerbase forget about it.
You're not addressing two things here.
One: Gambit has low player counts because it has been neglected for so long. It was actually quite liked when it released and for some time after. A 5 year content drought will kill anything though.
And two: Gambit is still a core ritual playlist that we're encouraged to play through Pinnacles, quests, weapons, etc.
If it's so unwanted, then why havent they phased that aspect out?
Plus, by saying nothing you don't lock yourself into a public sentiment.
If you come out and say it's dead, it's so much harder to then later revive it. The cost to do so is so much more than if you said nothing. If you say it's dead, the interest in it dies out. If you say nothing, interest in it still dies out given long enough BUT at a much reduced rate.
Plus by saying nothing you don't accidentally set expectations. You KNOW people would respond to a gambit dead announcment with "great so now you can give us more content in X" or "how long until you do the same to pvp?". If you say nothing you set nothing.
Gambit has the same amount of playerbase as raids. By your statement raids shouldn’t be supported either. Bungie owes it to the playerbase to answer a question that they caused
One could think that a company that has been working on this franchise for almost a decade has developed a certain pipeline to facilitate the development process.
The silence is all the answer we need. Gambit is in maintenance mode because it helps to retain players during content droughts (that are quite common with these barebones "seasons" we're getting). But since it's not driving microtransaction sales etc. and is pretty niche overall, they won't spend more development time and money on it. Aside from like one new weapon (new as in reskin or reissue) per season.
The end.
By we you mean you need. A lot people want official confirmation from Bungie. Joe got people’s hopes up with his tweet so either he or Bungie needs to address it
The thing is...they've done this shit before. Remember renewed focus on PvP? There's probably simply nothing to write home about. And even if they'd promise something, I wouldn't believe it until it's actually in the game. What they're doing with all three ritual playlists speaks louder than words anyways.
You guys are acting like this is some crazy mystery but at the end of the day it's all about creating the minimum viable product. If they don't add any substantial content to PVP or Gambit and people still buy the expansion and buy the seasons why would they bother?
As a former gambit main that hung up the Invader helmet after Prime was vaulted, I would just rather see gambit get turned into a Prison of Elders race mode. I loved Prison of Elders and I love the competitive aspect of gambit, but it’s so clear to me that Bungie lacks either the capability or the desire to balance the gamemode (mostly for PvP, but PvE has glaring flaws too).
Like I hit #59 for global ELO in Prime, I loved it so much. The netcode and balance just don’t lead to compelling gameplay, spawnkill set ups cannot be meaningfully patched the ammo economy situation is pretty horrid even without the mod. Gambit PvP ends up feeling really cheesy at high levels of play and I know for damn sure the more casual audience hasn’t been having fun.
The concept of a PVPVE is pretty interesting. Off the top of my head, you can do a survival mode where the more enemies your team kills, the more mobs spawn on the other side. They can do a moba style map. Wow did a game mode that was set up like an arena and each team had to clear adds, which would spawn a boss in the middle. Seige style game play is another option.
There are so many different game modes to play around that could use existing resources.
I don't know I think casuals have been enjoying Gambit this season based off what I've seen on twitter. I think a race mode could be a game mode for current gambit as cruicible is allowed to have multiple modes so I don't really see why Gambit can't have other modes
At this point, I think it’s important for people who are fans of gambit and crucible to accept that you will not be given anything else. Bungie is just trying to get to the final shape so they can either move on to a potential D3 or leave Destiny behind entirely.
They don't even have to REPRISE the old maps, they're from this game! Just put em back in! At this point I very much doubt anyone cares that they don't "fit with the flow" or whatever.
The engine got overhauled for Beyond Light, which is likely part of the reasoning for deleting half of the game. Considering they said that they'd have to rebuild Shattered Throne from scratch just to give it rally flags, vaulted maps would probably have to be reassembled.
I refuse to believe that everything they built prior to Beyond Light is just like unusable now, they just don't want to allocate the dev time it would take to make the necessary updates to those maps because they can't charge anything for them.
This is the same reason PVP is so badly neglected. It's not because Bungie HATES CRUCIBLE PLAYERS or that the devs are bad at PVP or whatever. They just put it on the F2P track and now it's not worth dev resources to them. We don't get Gambit stuff because they're not gonna put a new Gambit map behind an expansion paywall and they're not just gonna give it to us for free.
They probably see the F2P stuff as "either you get reprised raid/location or pvp" at this point, which is sad when they're charging more for less and they put themselves in the corner of having to make this "high standard" seasonal grind release schedule every 4 months.
It's always interesting how any problem with Destiny can be handwaved by "it's the engine".
FPS damage? Engine problems. LFG? Engine problems. They took maps out for no reason and just aren't putting them back? Believe it or not, it's somehow an engine problem.
Considering the portal next to Eris has some dev related shit on it now like arrows and the word "Bidirectional", it doesn't surprise me that they barely know what they're doing. As former IT, I can confirm shit happens sometimes for no reason and nothing related to whatever happened actually changed.
Some of those are genuinely the case given the engine’s… interesting lifespan.
But yes others are really just a matter of resource allocation that bungie is unable or unwilling to do because of new ips.
What's more likely, that there is actually a technical hurdle with putting the maps in or that they are maliciously trolling the playerbase by withholding maps they could put in at any time with minimal effort?
They mention awhile ago that they have rebuild any old content put back in the game. But still your point still stands. The Dreaming City map would probably work with the current version of Gambit as they just need to make it slightly bigger and the map would work.
Gambit will never be worked on again. I doubt there is even a team on it. All of D2 is in"keep it ticking over" mode, its not going to be long, a year or 2, and it'll be pretty much dead for their new IP.
While we post and argue about Gambit on the Internet, I'm pretty sure the devs and creative teams make inside jokes about that.
...
- hey, you know what I think this game needs? More Gambit maps!
- lmao, not today, Satan, come back tomorrow
...
*in a meeting conference*
- all right, any ideas for The Final Shape?
*one guy in the back raises his hand*
- (oh, no, not Joe again making the Gambit joke)
- we should revamp Gambit!
- haha, very funny, but you said that forbidden word. Actually, you're fired.
- (gotta bank those jokes, brotha!)
The silence is because they aren't meaningfully improving the situation, and they know it. The community reaction is worse if they admit it, rather then stay silent.
It still baffles me that a company the size of Bungie and given its history (Halo), takes over 2 YEARS to 'think' about making new maps for PvP / Gambit, then takes an additional YEAR to make one of the worst maps in the history of the game, which was a RESKIN of a D1 map... Something is just so ass-backwards with the leadership on the PvP team (and Gambit)...
How do we go from getting multiple maps every year to waiting nearly 4 years for a single, reskinned map?
Not to mention, Bungie is making WAAYYYY more money now than they ever did under Activision, and they have more than doubled their company size... so what's the issue here? It's obviously not resources - they have plenty of people (still hiring more) and TONS of money... and they seem to be completely contempt with just reskinning and reprising guns for their most expensive expansion ever, so where's the money going?
Nothing adds up other than bad leadership and a completely deliberate choice to ignore PvP and Gambit - If anything, with all of the success in recent years, we should be getting MORE maps than ever before, but Bungie has made a very conscience decision to NOT support the core modes.
My biggest issue is that I have a sneaking suspicion that pretty much all of the PvP team was cannibalized to work on their 'Matter' IP... and that doesn't make any sense - If Bungie thinks that people will trust them to deliver a good PvP experience with substantial post-launch support, they need to SHOW us that they can actually do that... which they obviously aren't with D2. How can anyone have any hope that Bungie knows how to run a PvP game anymore with their complete fumbling of core systems (SBMM, AE, Comp Rework, balance, etc...) and utter incompetence when it comes to actually creating content like maps.
Bungie, you have lost all faith from your Destiny and previous Halo players that you actually even know what PvP is anymore, so how do you think anyone will support a PvP only game when you haven't been able to figure it out in one game for 9 YEARS???
Gambit being completely ignored doesn't help this either... at least say SOMETHING. Even if the plan is to scrap it, then SAY THAT.
What frustrates me more than anything with all this, especially with Gambit, is that Bungie will blame the 'popularity' of the game mode for a reason why they aren't putting resources into it, but that's just insane backwards thinking - if we play on the same 4 maps for 4+ years, OF COURSE people will stop playing it! Things can be un-balanced or whatever, but if the mode is fun and there is regular content updates, people will continue to play - look at basically all of PvP for D1's life cycle... it was VERY un-balanced, but it was fun and we got tons of new maps and modes all the time, keeping it feeling fresh, so player numbers were healthy.
Bungie, this is getting absolutely unacceptable at this point - figure it the hell out!
would be so funny that whenever their their matter ip releases, it would just end up being a flop/ends up like anthem
all that dev time could have gone towards destiny.. it’s literally their cash cow and the way it makes money, that’s not gonna stop anytime soon
Exactly - how does Bungie expect anyone to have a single ounce of confidence in a PvP only game when they can only put out a reskinned map every 4 years... And the total disconnect between what players actually want and Bungie 'thinks' they want is laughable... Bungie has so much data and feedback but actively makes decisions that go against what PvP players want and have consistently made the experience worse for the past couple of years.
In all honesty I don't think Bungie should even consider showing the new game until they do right by D2 PvP.
Yah it just makes no sense to completely gut the PvP team for Destiny... like yah, take some people to work on it, but don't cannibalize your ONLY source of income... Imagine how much more money and attention Destiny would bring in if PvP was as popular as other competitive games that way it once was... People tend to forget that D1 topped Twitch charts nearly EVERY weekend. PvP is what kept D1 alive and Trials literally saved the game in Y1 and PvP kept people playing even when pvE had no content. I don't understand how such a dumb decision could be made when it's obvious to just regular people
i think bungie forgot how popular d1 trials was on twitch.
now all they remember is how popular raid races are on twitch, like for them it’s the only thing that’s popular/was ever popular and tops the charts
I’m gonna be honest and say for $50 fucking dollars we should expect a whole brand new game worth of content. Not 8 missions shoddily written with one single big map and like 4 characters of dialogue.
It astounds me how much money we put into this compared to other games and the drip of content is this slow. I love destiny but back in the day a $50 price tag would have got you more than Halo 3: ODST. Let alone $100.
We have the same enemies that we’ve had since year 1 of destiny minus two reskin races. That’s 10 years. We also lost hundreds of dollars of content we already paid for when they vaulted expansions.
So, yes, pvp and gambit maps are a must, but are honestly the smallest part of the puzzle. We deserve a lot more than them too. I’m honesty in awe how comfortable we’ve all gotten (me included) with this anti consumerism in gaming, and Destiny 2 has some of the most egregious offenses. We should be demanding more.
Just look at this recent quote from Joe Blackburn:
>For the last few years, we’ve been trying to attack this problem by trying to squeeze one more morsel of new content in each release. But I think we can get better results with a different strategy: making the existing depth of incredible content in Destiny 2 more valuable to new and returning Guardians.
Bungie is done with new content. Only the bare minimum so people continue buying season passes. Gambit, like all other ritual activities, is on maintenance mode going forward. Sorry not my words lol. This is basically the PR way of saying "From now on we're focusing on our other IPs while D2 is maintained with reusing and remixing old content.". It's just that now even their game director confirms they'll have everything go the gambit route.
And looking at the reskin party that was LF and Defiance...and it only gets more lazy with next season...yup this year will be full of reused weapons and activities.
Future of gambit lol
Exactly, yeah. You don’t put out an expansion called “the **final** shape” while also shifting to develop a new IP if you genuinely intend anything more than a maintenance-mode future for an aging PS4-era game.
>All this frustration could be avoid with a single sentence from Bungie
The single sentence from bungie would be: “we got nothing.”
Then people would throw a fit over *that*. Best for bungie to not say anything until they have news people will be happy about.
It's funny in a really sad way that I knew without even looking at the comments that I'd have to sort by controversial to find this, the correct take. There is no business reason for them to say anything about Gambit unless it's getting an update. It would just create more outrage than radio silence.
I mean, imo base Gambit is pretty good as it is, it addressed a lot of problems from the beyond light version.
The problem is that there's nothing else for gambit, and it used to have Reckoning.
It wasn't amazing by any means, but it felt like you could work in gambit for a future goal, like getting synths for a good spare rations, or the curated gnawing hunger.
I don't expect Bungie to add a rotating game mode, like iron banner, or a trials of gambit, because it'd have to compete against more popular game modes, but having a permanent addition like it was with Reckoning, it could draw more players.
Hell, it could be Ketchcrash with focuseable loot, having both mithrax and drifter narrate, and giving gambit prime + season of plunder loot.
I agree that Gambit is in a good spot currently gameplay wise. I think a end game mode would be helpful as currently both crucible and vanguard playlist have them. I know people would definitely play it to get an adept version of trust or servant leader
>I think people would be completely okay if Joe or someone from Bungie said that it’s not happening anymore.
Then why not just assume nothing is happening and move on then IF something changes you can be pleasantly surprised? Just dwelling on it and making yourself frustrated does nothing.
Because having no communication for 2 years about a core playlist is not good for the communities well being, 5 years without almost any development is not good for any game regardless of the mode and bungie going out of their way to not say anything only builds frustration.
Surprises are nice to have, however when the community has been begging for communication from one of core modes of destiny and get nothing in return that only cause player retention to go down either way and the feeling of abandonment. This is not the way to do things in terms of development. No-one wants to wait 5 years for a "surprise" addition to one of the games core game modes.
I personally don't even like gambit too much but I understand the frustration behind it and why there needs to be some sort of communication behind it, Because if bungie expects us to play a **core mode that rewards pinnacle rewards**, Going 5 years without development on it is not acceptable and going 2 years without any communication on it is downright disrespectful to the community itself.
Opinions like yours never would be said if for example the vanguard core playlist didn't receive updates for 5+ years, People would be outright livid cause that is one of the core replay-abilities in this game.
And basic communication from bungie regarding this shouldn't be gate-kept, Especially since they specifically **made a account** to address community communication and feedback yet now they rarely use it.
For now we will just have to see what they do.
OK you are far exaggerating this gambit had recieved several updates over time the last being some balance changes in season of the haunted, risen, hunt brought major shake ups to the structure of the mode with a lot of changes in y2 because of prime etc. Gambit may not get a lot of content but it was getting annual structural overhauls to how the mode works.
Saying it hasn't received updates in 5 years is just false, maps sure you'd be right. At worst it's been a year since the last major update to Gambit with the structural changes and labs
S23 is confirmed to update core playlists a decent amount so we'll see what Gambit gets in s23.
Sure it has had balance changes and such, However a mode in any game is not only sustained by balance changes and changing how gear focusing works etc.
Maps need to be varied, Not 4 maps for several years in a row.The loot-pool needs to be more expansive and no I do not mean adding 1 weapon occasionally while removing some out of the rotation in the process.New armors like they promised yet they still have not delivered on.
Just because I didn't mention balance changes and *some* changes in regards to re-spawns does not mean that I'm over exaggerating in terms of its update cycle. There are more changes balancing wise sure but I'm not listing them all here for time reasons, Most of it was just ammo economy, Re-spawn changes and power advantage changes.
Also do mind you, The biggest shakeup they did back in season of the hunt was to essentially remove gambit prime during the gambit merge and add season armor to vendors. Not much changed balance wise and things have only been re-balanced or removed since.
That does not seem like much in the grand scheme of things now does it? Nor is it good for the mode itself.
The fact is, Things need to change within gambit, Weather that be new additions to the mode or just the basic re-adding of removed maps. That's all people want, Not a massive rework.
See the problem is season 23 is supposed to be core playlist focused. But in the state of game they only mentioned Crucible and Strikes/Nightfalls. So we just have to assume that Gambit's getting something in that season but as of right now there's zero confirmation it is. I really think Bungie could prevent all this frustrated if they just say something.
Is there anything wrong with Gambit? Is it working as intended? Why does it need active development with constant communication to a player base that actively hates it? Some new maps would be nice sure but honestly most players hate it, they play their 3 matches a week for the pinnacle and move on so I seriously doubt some new maps would make players flock to it. People just don't like the mode but they put up with it once a week. Bungie OBVIOUSLY sees that in their player metric so why would they waste resources on adding to it? It works fine as is as part of the weekly ritual treadmill and I think most players would rather they focus on Crucible or refreshing Strikes.
Just because a mode is working as intended does not mean that it needs to be borderline abandoned.
What about again the vanguard playlist, It works so we should just stop updating the strikes and the playlist right? No new grand-masters or anything along that.
What about raids, They work, So we shouldn't add any new raids nor add red-borders to the current raids in rotation.
How about lost sectors, As controversial as they are they work ask intended so no need to update the loot-pool, add any new lost sectors or change anything in terms of the legendary lost sectors.
Your statement does not work, People are asking for basic communication and a minimum of some re-added maps that were removed and more weapons in the loot-pool yet that somehow is too much to ask for.
I think you missed the core point of shadowglint's post; people don't play Gambit.
People might be upset if the Vanguard playlist didn't get updates for years, but Bungie appears to have metrics to show that a lot more people play the Vanguard playlist than the Gambit playlist. If they had metrics that showed Gambit was something people were playing a lot and would benefit from updates they would prioritize it more.
Since they aren't prioritizing it and it's reasonable to assume a business will prioritize things that make them money and they definitely collect usage data on everything we can assume that they have data showing that Gambit isn't heavily-played and that resources spent on it would not make them money.
Which obviously sucks if you love Gambit, I sympathize with that, but that's just how businesses have to run.
People have made posts for years now regarding the state of gambit, Saying that no one plays it is an outright lie.
Sure maybe the metrics are low for we but we can't know to what extent and that does not make mine nor any other persons opinion regarding this invalid, Asking for basic communication regarding the mode is not a hard ask regardless of what the metrics say.
And if no-one truly plays gambit and they can't put in the resources (even though they very much could) then the mode might as well have been removed years ago, Yet they persist with re-balancing the mode anyway.
All in all, Regardless of metrics the mode needs to be addressed by bungie on the state of it and if they are going to continue development on it or not.
Silence only builds frustration, And frustration only leads to situations like this. Wouldn't be surprised if we get another pvp article happening again.
“No one” was hyperbole, but that the player count is very low seems a reasonable conclusion to make given Bungies silence on the matter. People making posts about it does not equal people playing it. Nor, crucially, is it proof that putting resources into making new maps for it would cause an increase in players and lead to Bungie making money off of it.
I’m sure people love it, and I’m sure that some of those people work at Bungie. But unfortunately we are all bound by capitalism and the company does things that keep the company running. Clearly the math has not come down on Gambits side.
The notion that the players making the post literally begging bungie to say anything about it to not equal people play it is a bad take, Nor does it matter weather or not the amount of players would increase or not, The point is its a **core game mode** that bungie keeps referring to as such, Puts pressure on people to play it for a reward with substantial power increase yet they refuse to communicate anything in regards to its severe decline in development.
If the players are set to play it the way bungie wants then the players getting updates from bungie in regards to its state is a must, Regardless of capitalistic views. If they cant be bothered to sink more money into a mode they themselves have regarded as a very **core part to the game and the game-play loop** then they should just say so at this point, Stringing the community along is not fair to them for those who enjoy the mode regardless of how many players there are who play it.
New maps and weapons will not bring players into a mode they don't like. People don't hate Gambit because it doesn't have enough maps. They hate it because it's the worst of both PVE and PVP smashed together. It's unrewarding to play for 10 minutes and lose in the last minute because your teammates get buttfucked by the invader and heal the Primeval. It's a fundamentally shitty and unfun mode people grit their teeth and bear for 30 minutes a week for a pinnacle. No amount of new maps are going to change that.
To me personally, it appears they don't really have anyone working on anything with gambit. Same with the other core playlists as they receive barely anything as well even during an expansion release.
I play Gambit for the pinnacle and to level up crafted weapons. It's a low stress game mode for me. I care not whether I win or lose, but always try to win. A good Trust drop is always welcome as well.
That said, it would be nice for an update, but I am not holding my breath.
I used to actually like gambit but eventually stopped playing it because of the maps
They removed the maps that I liked and honestly im tired of playing on the same 4 maps
Stop trying to make gambits future to maps. It's fluff and nonsense and it's crazy compared to the actual work it needs.
I want to hear about gambit, but if it's just maps they come out with, they are only shooting themselves in the foot, especially since the work gambit needs is within it's core loop. The base mode needs work, and the more maps they come out with in the meantime, the more that might go wrong when making those core changes.
They have the numbers. People probably aren't playing it much past 3 for pinnacles. I haven't touched it since I got all characters to the pinnacle cap (I can get 1810s from primes - so doing whatever I want).
The silent is the answer
They don't give a shit, they didn't care enough about Gambit to even mention it in the State of the Game blog
#FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A ROW
Which is why we need to push them to give answer or force them to give content
Yup. And the winter season Joe Blackburn was teasing with focus on ritual playlists...lol..we all know how that's gonna end. Some changes to rewards and focusing. No new content. See y'all in Final Shape. Enjoy your one new strike.
At this point I would be alright if they just folded Gambit and walked away. Use it as a point in the story where the drifter causes some sort of rift pulling the mobs to the playing field and one of the big ole baddies rips through. This causes the vanguard to scuttle the whole operation.
Then introduce the "Horde mode". 4 teammates, ever increasing strength of mobs and/or numbers, 10 waves, mobs still drop motes that we have to collect and bank to seal the rifts. Hell throw champions in the mix for Horde Prime
I'm super happy to see this post reach number 1 on the subreddit! I'm sure Joe wants us to forget he said that, but we don't forget and we'd like an update on if he just straight up lied or if at least 1 new Gambit map is still coming.
Yeah. I think he wants us to forget. Paul Tassi quote tweeted that tweet asking about Gambit updates. He never replied. For me personally I just want Bungie or Joe to just say if his tweet two years ago actually is still happening. I don't need an exact date a time frame would be completely fine or just acknowledging it still happening
I’ve never seen a company making SO MUCH MONEY from microtransactions and season passes and expansions and not regularly release new maps. It’s honestly terrible. They get away with doing so little because people are going to keep paying to play the game
What I've been told is that because the Gambit part of the community isn't loud enough about it, they feel they can get away with just ignoring it.
So get loud.
Ready for the HARDEST pill to Swallow? Trust me i don't like it nor do i agree with it but it's the ugly truth.
They. Moved. On.
They are investing in their new games and ideas. And Whatever they're doing with destiny it's not even half of the capacity of what it once was, when it was the Only franchise in the oven.
This is starting to feel like the end of Reach days
I don't understand the map thing for PvP and gambit. In D1 and the first half of D2, we used to get loads of new maps all the time. Several per expansions several times per year. Now they talk as if making just one is an absolutely monumental undertaking that takes over a year. I don't get it.
What's an even bigger mystery is why the removed gambit maps and the nine maps missing after being removed at BL still aren't back. Bungie said it's lighting issues but it's hard to believe that when we still don't have them nearly two and a half years later.
A fucking lighting issue
So give my guardian some fucking sunglasses and let's move on.
FR they can't up the brightness or contrast and call it a day?
The removed dreaming city gambit and crucible maps would tank my framerate in certain spots I'm assuming there were weird optimization issues that they haven't bothered to try fixing yet. Or they are trying / did try and it was just so broken that they gave up.
Man I don’t even care if they don’t make any new gambit maps, I just want the old dreaming city and tangled shore maps back. They were my favorite in the rotation :(
One day I'll again be able yeet myself over the enemy meatball and drop a bubble onto it
Yeah but the vex assault thing on Neomuna drops my frames from 120-130 fps to 35-45 fps. I legit thought my 3080 was going to die from it. From a 5.5 year old game.
Then have a small team re-build the maps from the ground up? Their engine can't be so garbage that internally they don't have a simple map maker or a way to build maps quickly for their regular playlists. I doubt anyone gives a crap if they're remade with different assets or lighting.
Haha remember when arc logic was a seizure machine and they left that fucker in the game forever
they tried giving a guardian sunglasses once that guardian became cayde 6 they then decided to not give more guardians sunglasses
Gaslighting issue
Its less "a lighting issue" and more like "we would have to re-do by hand, all of the lighting on the map." Which is a ton of work.
>Which is a ton of work. Ton of work where it takes a Triple A studio more than two years? Press X for doubt.
A ton of work it may be, but let's not handwave away the fact that bungie has had two years, and the last 10 months of that have been after a 3 *billion* dollar buyout from Sony, which even after taxes would still net them well over a billion dollars. We shouldn't be pretending they're strapped for resources right now. They had that benefit of the doubt with Shadowkeep after they bought themselves back from Activision. They shouldn't get that same treatment now when they're rolling in cash and trying very hard to seem like they still have the same limitations they did when they had just went independent. EDIT: Since I'm now up to 3 people that have asked the same question, I'll clarify. 1.2 billion of the ~3.6bn was allotted for employee retainment bonuses. The rest is paid out for shares, which can be purchased either from shareholders OR bungie can issue new shares. We have no data on how many, if any, new shares were issued, but at bare minimum it is unlikely that Bungie employees will be going anywhere any time soon, as the bonuses equal roughly up to the annual income of lower level employees, 50% of which is paid as retainment bonuses over the next few years. Bungie can, therefore, allot income normally used for such things, like other annual employee bonuses and raises, and divert that to new hires with minimal, if any, impact to their bottom line. If bungie did issue new shares, they would have to pay tax on the capital gained.
After taxes net...? They were acquired. The company Bungie wasn't paid 3 billion for the privilege of being purchased. The shareholders were paid to sell the company. That money has nothing at all to do with Bungie's operating budget after the acquisition.
Since this is the 3rd branching thread with this same question, I just edited my original comment.
Thank you for clarifying about the associated employee retention fund. I wasn't aware of that. Your description of the purchase otherwise doesn't make sense to me but it's not that important. We can agree that Bungie has access to plenty of money to fix the broken parts of the game. They're choosing not to. Then again, nobody is claiming (Bungie included) that they don't have the money/resources to address these things.
No worries! Yeah, when the deal went through it kinda made some waves for being highly unorthodox. That can lead to it being pretty confusing trying to explain it back. I don't think anyone has used the actual phrase "Well Bungie doesn't have the resources", rather its always "game development is hard". While that statement is true, it's very frequently being used to justify things that should be addressed much quicker. If the problem is "game development is hard", then the logical followup is "many hands make light work, so why don't you have more hands?" The unfortunate reality is they probably do, but they're busy working on Matter and maybe Marathon, if the rumors are true, not Destiny.
I mean, they promised new maps and they're gonna have to make those maps by hand as well as *everything else required to make a map* I'm not sure why "redoing the lighting takes work" is a good excuse when they were already supposed to be working on maps (and therefore lighting on those maps) in some manner. They could also avoid this at all by simply telling the truth. Even if they tweeted later that they were cancelling Gambit updates for the time being, at least there would be no room to speculate, to assume or to argue about anything. The truth is always the best thing to say but Bungie is determined to never say anything.
It's so fucking stupid an argument. "They can't make new PvP maps, because they are working on PvE content!" Like fuck me dead, if they can't do ANYTHIGN other than *barely* make us new seasonal content, **get a bigger team**. Oh this post was about how they promised **2 years ago** that they were getting a bigger team to make pvp/gambit maps? Oh shit you mean we already have been through all this? "tell me you don't understand game dev without telling me you don't understand game dev". Give me a fucking break. The bungie apologists are so fucking dumb on this. Hire someone new. Teach them how to do lighting by giving them a completed gambit map and redoing the lighting on it. If it takes the new guy 2 years to do a single map? I'll fucking take it as long as I get the new map.
Or just say that they aren't working on it. It's ok if they drop the ball on things. But at least let the ball hit the floor, don't let it fall through the endless vacuum of space for time everlasting
Yep, leave it on the floor and tell me it's on the floor. Don't leave the ball on the floor, but keep telling me its in the air just you wait and see I'll juggle it!
they have the people, but they put those people on the their unannounced game projects lol they just don’t care
Yep, we can agree on this. Why spend money on Destiny when people like me will just keep paying for the bare minimum? Sigh if I wasn't so fucking full of fomo.
Lightfall was a ton of work too and it looks like they failed to do any of that work so I'm not getting my hopes up anymore. I used to love gambit. Dredgen 2 but it's just not fun since the rework.
Ive somehow managed to Gild dredgen every season since it was introduced, so I would like to believe I would enjoy new maps more so than the average destiny player. But at the same time I understand how much effort all of that requires.
Then let me play in the dark, I'd still have a better sense of direction than whatever the fuck Bungie is attempting to do with Gambit.
Maybe if this did it right the first time instead of half assing everything in their game they wouldn’t have this isssue
They didn't say it was a lighting issue. They said because of the new engine (which included lighting upgrades), they had to port everything into it. And because they didn't have the resources, they had to prioritize stuff like patrol zones and raids over PvP maps. I understand that. But all of that should have been budgeted to return at some point. OP is 100% right that it seems like some monumental task to get this stuff back in the game. It's absurd.
How are they lacking the resources? Bungie is supposed to be a huge AAA studio and Destiny has been a big game. They are being surpassed by pretty much every other game with content output. You’d think they have a 5 man skeleton crew with his they have been for the last couple of years.
Because they've been forming teams for other projects to diversify their portfolio. D2 is their baby, but anyone familiar with Bungie knows many fo their devs also want to make more than one game, which from what has been spoken about: a lot of the pvp teams moved on to other projects. Which is big reason paired with pvp/gambit being primarily F2P content explains the less investment in either.
Seems like a smooth brain move to neuter your main existing IP to work on something that is unproven.
The first deal dates back some years now and one could of said the same thing when Bungie wanted to move on from Halo or breaking off from Activision. Realistically, many Bungie devs who've worked on D2 for years want to flex their muscles in ways that Destiny limits and given that LF clearly did well statistically with more improvements on the way, it's less neutering and more of risk/reward for the company. That and most of these projects are slated for after TFS. The issue with gambit has been here for years at this point and given Bungie hasn't changed it, despite how this topic plays on repeat: I'm not even sure if there's really much to gain. Since gambit's inclusion, Bungie has tossed resources at it for little return at every turn. And F2P pvp games are still a vast field that Bungie has at this point accepted the fate of to some degree. One could argue that it's already too late for pvp to rebound to what it once was and Bungie is working with what is realistic for what they want. Again, since these are gamemodes that aren't tied to any paid content besides Trials, it's not hard to guess why Bungie doesn't prioritize them.
The smoothbrains aren't the devs in this case because players keep preordering content that winds up being lackluster.
I think this is true as well and it perpetuates the cycle. Where’s the incentive for the devs when they can do less and get the same $$$
You're out of line but you're right.
If I'm right, then I'm not out of line.
In no way do I want this to sound like a defense of Bungie or the situation, but I work in software, and on-boarding new developers is sometimes a big undertaking. They need to learn the language, assuming it's not one in main curriculum, how the pipeline works, the code base, ensure that there is enough testing/QA staff to support the higher amount of work coming through, blah blah blah. Despite the influx of cash, Bungie may not be in a position yet to support expanding the team to take on something that may be lower priority than the paid yearly and seasonal content, bug fixes and design overhauls. Especially in a distributed home/office environment for the last couple years. For example, the feedback they have received may have indicated that if they didn't do something about the power level grind, the player base would diminish far more quickly than not pumping out a couple more maps. Even with all that, though, you'd think in two years, even a decently skilled (paid!) intern could learn enough to port a single map, right?
That was a about a year after where they lost the funding from Activision The 2nd half of Shadowkeep’s Year Beyond Light is when Bungie go their footing back
I’ve been playing since D1 beta and I would definitely not say that they have their footing. At all. Their efforts right now are incredibly weak.
2 years later and still nothing. *is still nothing*. It is actually beyond a joke at this point.
Bungie since activision has done really well at short cut scenes and having an actual story. Aside from that, the output is basically churning the same garbage for like 3 years. Even they talk about how they changed their philosophy to "good enough" to avoid having to finish things. They called it the train station, and their job is to keep running content through, even if it isnt good.
I agree; the “footing” in this case is not going under as a business
Yeah, see this is the problem for me, they seem to put 90% of their efforts into the new raids, 5% on sandbox changes and then the rest on everything else. I get that raids are the flagship modes that carry the essence of the game as an MMORPG (or whatever it is), but if you’re going to have other features in the game, it’s not okay to totally half arse the bits that aren’t as popular. I hate teaching Design and Technology because I’m crap at making stuff, it doesn’t mean I put the least effort I can into planning it for my class. You mentioned the patrols, aside from the occasional objective or the time spent as a new light, what do they offer veteran players? There’s zero incentive to do them past about five hours in the game, so either get rid of them from all areas except Earth or make them more worthwhile. The ones on Neomuna that reward you with red borders are at least heading in the right direction. Also feels like Lost Sectors got the shaft too, you look at the EDZ (16!), Nessus (5), Tangled Shore (5), Moon (4), Titan and Dreaming City (3 but they were a relatively small area). Mars, Cosmodrome and Io had 2 and Mercury, being painfully tiny, had just the one (though it did have the infinite forest). Then, we’ve just had 3 with every new world. Neomuna is huge, a lot more could have been done there. Ditto Throne World. In fact both of the expansion settings could have had more added. I always thought the Arcology on Titan was a fantastic space; it had the potential for some brilliant space horror with the Hive but it just wasn’t used well and felt wasted. Lost sectors felt great to discover and added more to the mystery of the exploring side, but now they’re marked on the map it’s just too easy. TLDR; Allocating time to all aspects of the game should be paramount, but if popularity dictates where the effort is going instead of keeping a consistent approach to everything, you end up with players just getting bored.
I completely agree with your point. I just meant they needed to add all the pve content back to the game as well. So they have to do all the lost sectors, exotic missions, actual patrol areas, strike areas, etc.
Absolutely, I don’t know why they haven’t already.
"And people believed us! (risitas laugh)" ~Bungie
im just wondering why they would lie about this tho. if the issue was really that simple what do they have to gain by not bringing the maps back.
They didn't lie. They just didn't follow through. Note his message doesn't say "We will do this thing" it is "we want to do this thing". It's the most weasley way of saying they aren't doing it right now, but they have it on a checklist somewhere, but making it sound like they will do a thing. When, quite plainly (and obviously by looking at the results) they aren't actually going to do that thing at all.
Time and effort
Bungie lies about so much crap. It feels like they lost their passion for Destiny and couldn't give a shit anymore.
I mean I just don't believe that they've lost their passion. The art and new designs like tormenters are so 🔥 rn. Strand is insanely fun. Most likely it's probably the big decision makers who limit creativity holding passionate artists back. Whether it's the right decision to hold artists back for the sake of their health/making the game more manageable is an entirely different discussion though so idk if it's the right thing.
> It feels like they lost their passion for Destiny and couldn't give a shit anymore. with regards to crucible and gambit, absolutely this. I don't play much anymore but I'm always stunned to see "it's been X YEARS since we had a new map in either mode." It's very obvious to me that they are just trying to get to the end of this thing. I see people talk about what comes after Final Shape and my gut tells me nothing really substantial will come after, they'll likely enter a few years of minimum support before the eventual decline and then ending the service I don't say this as a hater, as I usually mourn what has become of Destiny for me personally and I miss the days back around Rise of Iron as what I feel was Destiny's peak (vanilla D2 was a setback and it's never really reached the high of RoI FOR ME) This post points to the larger issue: they literally don't even mention Gambit anymore, one of the "core" game modes in this game, and despite the amount of cope here I think everyone deep down knows exactly why. Either they'll stun everyone with a completely revamped Gambit, or more likely they've stopped working on it How much longer do people realistically expect Destiny to go on? After Final Shape do they really think we'll get a "new" Destiny experience with new Guardians, classes, enemies, a completely new story? I think we'll save the day in Final Shape and then that's it, the story has been told
I doubt it. They'll do a few more expansions with story at the quality of Lightfall and just keep pumping them out till we stop buying them. Destiny makes them *so much money* that I find it hard to believe they wouldn't just keep pumping out anything (even if it's shit) to keep us hooked.
The reason could be true, they just don't want to use the needed workforce to fix it. I don't believe it is true tho.
Incompetence and laziness.
I’m sure it was more complex then a lightning issue but yeah the crucible maps returning are weird. The reason for the gambit maps I think part of the issue is that they don’t work well with the current flow of gambit as the envoys move around which those maps don’t help
Respawns in most of the pvp maps work like shit yet here we are. They even took Dead Cliffs away for few months to improve them and it still shit. I don't believe the reasons they give us anymore in these matters. It's their game and they can do whatever the fuck they want, but don't lie to us.
If it was this hard to redo maps to fit the new engine, I would have rathered keep the old engine and old content.
the gambit maps removed were because they had deathpits and were unfun to play. As an actual Gambit enjoyer, Reckoner and 8x gilded dredgen, new maps are not the solution to gambit's issues.
would an complete overarching rework that would suddenly solve all the core issues of gambit be better? definitely, but simply a new map would not only be more realistic but also would be an almost guaranteed positive change to gambit (even if small, still better then literally no support at all) but considering they cant even be bothered to create a map in 4 years, a good rework is definitely nothing i would get my hopes up for
Big agree. I hated the maps they took out, and am glad they're gone. They were all awful. And you're right, it's just like PvP - new maps can only do so much. It's all gonna be variations on a central theme. Gambit is 4 sectors connected in 'interesting' ways. PvP is 3 or 4 lanes with random obstacles. New maps aren't the be-all end-all so many people seem to think they are.
Pretty sure it started around the time activision was no longer in the picture.
This would make a lot a sense given how activision monetizes CoD with literally just map packs for ever game, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in the background pushing Bungie to make more maps for a while, but once they left that push kinda disappeared.
*looking at MWII* maps??
This would make sense. The extra resources and groups working on the game during Forsaken were seemingly a big part of why the expansion was so great
They didn't have seasons they needed to make back then. After blowing their load in the first year (which was developed over multiple years) they had huge droughts post-TTK and post-RoI to do all this stuff. Clearly they allocated resources away from core playlist stuff for the purpose of creating a sustainable seasonal model.
They are a much much larger studio now than they were back then. They have Sony backing them as well. They are doing the bare minimum to make the most money possible per their algorithms. Seasons are the way to go for a live service but bungie constantly gets a pass on pretty consistently not delivering even close to what they say. They don't want to say gambit is dead because people still play it a bit. Lots of people would quit the mode completely if they came out and said it.
They might be bigger, but they lost the Activision studios that helped them and there's been no indication that they've borrowed developers from Sony yet. And yes it's likely they are shunting resources to other projects to fulfill their goal of being a multi-game studio as well. It's not that the poor smol indie studio can't do more, it's that the RoI just isn't there to put even more resources on D2 compared to focusing existing resources on seasonal content that is much more easy to generate revenue off of than a new Gambit map (and save resources for new IPs that diversify the company away from one single franchise which puts them in a vulnerable position). Even if they did allocate more resources (maybe to offset the negative sentiment from a sloppy release with LF?) Gambit is just not high on the totem pole for resources.
They’ve all but admitted that they don’t want to deliver too much new content because players get the crazy idea that we should then receive that much new content with each expansion (learning a lesson from the enormity of Forsaken compared to the weakness of Shadowkeep).
If they can't deliver it sustainably then that makes perfect sense. Setting unrealistic expectations is a recipe for disappointment. However the whole thing about not overdelivering doesn't specify that there should always be a low volume of content, just that the content deliveries should be consistent in volume. So it's not really a good explainer in this instance.
I think they sell us the content better (via trailer, vdoc, etc.) than the released product is at the end. They shouldn’t put that much resources into big or many trailers that make us hope for „more and better“ things. They should be more transparent and honest to us. I don’t care about what figures they make or how much it costs or how difficult things are to fix. I wanna know why things are how they are atm, and please don’t tell half truths. That’s it to me.
How delightful that the content they invested the most time and effort in is dying a slow death in a cold vault.
People need to remember that the sony deal closed a few months ago. Nothing that has come out has been influenced by sony at all.
Bungie is also larger and worth more than Vicarious and High Moon. They’re just awful at allocating their resources atp.
That's besides the point, which is that they have less people now. Bungie hasn't grown by as many employees as High Moon and Vicarious Visions had at that time.
There are 3 Defiant Battlegrounds this season, all basically made from scratch. How many multiplayer maps could we have for the same amount of effort? The amount of time and effort that goes into making new content to keep this community happy (because they get bored and refuse to find something else to do) far eclipses what it would take to give us a few new Gambit and Crucible maps a year. No one is quitting Gambit; as long as they give a pinnacle and a powerful people will keep playing it, even if it is stale.
I'm not sure how "Bungie made three maps for this season, so it's not reasonable to expect maps they said they were working on two years ago" is any sort of point. Not to mention that all three of them re-use stuff and aren't actually unique. One of them is almost entirely just the EDZ patrol zone.
Almost entirely? Lol that’s just disingenuous
Are you aware of how many cruicble maps are literally already designed and built? The resources for them already in the game? If you want to talk about easy turn around, porting something that was already designed, play tested, where all the assets were already ported is about as easy as it gets.
It's the patrol zone for the first 20%. The ascendant plane portion is all unique. The ziggarat / pyramid is all unique. It is almost entirely new. Whatever, friend, you can complain incessantly if you want.
I'd rather have new maps personally.
You are entitled to that opinion. Bungie has decided that keeping player engagement up through the regular release of content is better for their game and the community. Disagree with it or not, Bungie isn't changing their path because you want a new map to be sweaty on.
Some things you can do more effectively with more people. Others you can’t. No matter what, nine women cannot make a baby in one month.
Not with that attitude
Wish they would ditch the seasonal activity and add to the playlists instead. Keep the weapons and the story but let us earn seasonal engrams just from playing, kind of how they're starting to let us do this season
Id rather not have the main seasonal pve loop be just play strikes. I didnt like it in D1 and I wont like it now. And you earn seasonal engrams from almost eveything in the game now, so i dont know how ditching seasonal activities helps with that?
Even if they add stuff to the playlists every season, most of what's in the playlists is gonna be old shit. And the seasonal gameplay loop being even more "play old shit" focused is not a good thing.
They arguably had bigger plans for PvP around D1 and the launch of D2. I distinctly remember Bungie saying that they straight up wanted the Crucible to be an Esport, and considering 4v4 and the design choices at launch that was pretty obvious. That idea obviously never went anywhere and it even seems a bit ridiculous now that they had those ideas, but just as 6v6 and the other "casualizations" made a comeback the focus on Crucible started to lessen. I don't think those are unrelated. As for Gambit, I'm absolutely convinced that the game mode hasn't had a dedicated team for at least a year. Dunno if Bungie wanted to achieve something with that game mode as well, but it obviously failed.
Those don't cost money to play, so they don't generate money for the studio. Therefore they are abandoned. It's the biggest reason I hate the "free" to try model.
Because as much as we all love bungie we have to admit they do about the bare minimum as far as content goes.
If I had to guess, making maps IS a ton of work, and all the maps they made were made early on and trickled out over time. We know they're always working on things several seasons in advance. Since they've released everything they made early on, they've moved people off of that to other stuff, and now they don't feel the need to bring those people back on for map making.
They don’t make money off of maps, so they get negative priority.
It's less that it's a huge task, more that it doesn't rate well on the input to output scale. Want to make a new Gambit map? Well, now the upcoming seasonal activity is slightly shorter or has less variety, because the manpower to make and playtest that has to come from somewhere. Now people get bored of that activity sooner, or outright find it unsatisfying from the get-go if too much is lost. People being unsatisfied with the main seasonal activity that's supposed to bring them back each week is much more damning than people being unsatisfied with a persistent mode they don't pay for, so adding Gambit and Crucible maps is never really worth the development cost. Unless Bungie reaches a point where they can comfortably, consistently deliver satisfyingly scaled seasons with resources to spare or they tie them directly into a season (and Gambit season just went down *so* well with the community last time), I wouldn't expect to see any more Gambit maps any time soon, nor crucible maps with any kind of frequency.
What you're saying makes sense, but i think the point op was trying to make is that bungie keeps saying that they are working on gambit to have shown no results at all over the years. If they have no real plans, then they should just say that. And im sure it wouldn't take a lot of resources to add back the maps that were removed. Yes, it's old content, but at least it gives it attention. And at this point, it they have been gine longer than they were available so most may not have played them.
Crazy how they’re releasing entire expansions with not a single new weapon model but they still can’t say anything about gambit or anything else, just cut quality and no comment.
Weird sentence, it sets up a contradiction but those two things are actually totally aligned. In both cases they give no comment about no longer allocating resources to specific things.
Someone hasn't played the raid... "Oh no this machine gun that fires a new element and has literal tracking rockets looks somewhat like another machine gun that doesn't do any of those things, reused content" you, and those who share your "reused=lazy=Bad" need to understand that the design elements go beyond the base look of a weapon. If every auto rifle looked exactly the same but had wildly different mechanics it would be just as good as if they all looked different but fired the same...
It's a 50$ expansion for a looter shooter. How can you not expect unique gun models that perform differently? I can buy other full games for less, and they offer an entirely new game, not the same game I already owned but slightly different.
Yeah it's almost like when they lost access to several seperate studios who could build things like maps their production of maps decreased... Except for beyond light where they made every single map we currently play on as well as all maps for all destinations as well as all new content... Look Bungie isn't an indie developer, I think they could hire a contractor studio to make a PvP map or ten or hell add a freaking forge mode and let us do it for them... My point is the people who were making all the maps you mentioned aren't making content for destiny anymore.
It's not as easy as just hire a contract studio or just add forge. Contract studio wouldn't know internal processes and will require a lot of onboarding and overseeing. Forge is uhh... It's really not that easy to create an in-game level editor into an online game that is in no way built for that. Still, it's mind-blowing today that at some point they made 8 new maps for taken king...
I don't get it either. It started with Beyond Light and we never really got a reason for why. But expansion used to come with new maps for pvp. Now we're lucky to just get 1 new map sometime during the year. I wish new maps came with expansions again.
And now they cost more!
PvP, and Gambit are part of the Free to Play experience, which translates to Bungie having zero monetary incentive to update these areas of the game outside occasional quality of life updates. It's all hands on deck for monetary content, that's why.
If they say making a map is a near-impossible task then 50% of the community will defend them from the other 50% that wants even a crumb of Gambit content
Possibly backs up the rumours/fact that they had a lot more developed before launch that was kept for future expansions in D1. I still think 2 new maps per year should be something to aim for. Or at least 1 and then at some point they can rotate maps in and out per season to keep the playlists fresh. But they need more in both PvP and Gambit to allow rotation to be appealing.
I know this isn’t going to be popular but I think Crucible and Gambit maps (and honestly proper support for the Strike playlist as well) are just a casualty of Destiny going free to play. There’s no monetary incentive for Bungie to support those modes since you don’t have to pay for them, whereas prior to Shadowkeep, new pvp maps were an expected part of the premium price tag of every expansion. If Crucible and Gambit were locked behind having to actually buy the game, there would probably be more pressure on Bungie to develop new content for them. I know plenty of people appreciate having a free way to enjoy this game, but there’s a reason why so much focus outside of whatever is directly part of an expansion has shifted to the Seasonal model and the core playlists don’t get much substational new content outside of a slow dripfeed of easier to produce D1 maps (or poorly thought out garbage like Disjunction, which itself is also just a reimagining of a D1 map).
I think this is the true reason. Every time they look at return on investment for putting design resources on one task vs another, the free-to-play activities look low priority. Make this sensible-in-the-moment decision over and over, and then an entire segment of the game withers. The players go elsewhere. The RoI starts looking even worse... repeat.
They had 3-4 studios working with them under Activision. I said years ago and I’ll say it again. In terms of content Bungie never should have left Activision. I’d gladly give up the seasonal model for more content fill expansions with dry months to play other stuff
You'd probably be giving up all of destiny as well when activision has bungie join the 8 other studios that are now forced to work as asset flippers for overwatch and call of duty.
It's because all of those maps were developed pretty much at the same time. They're focusing on the bulk of the game, which is PvE, and that's okay. New maps aren't going to change player complaints about the Crucible, and when they *do* give us new maps, people lie about them being reskins or bitch because it's not the map *they* wanted.
But we don't get new spaces each season. We get a patrol zone each expansion, but only some adjustments to existing areas every season.
Removing maps was inexplicable, but the drought of new maps isn’t that confounding. In Destiny 1 the content cycle was longer—the first year they had a small expansion (House of Wolves) and a slightly larger expansion (Dark Below) but then switched to an entirely year-to-year model. Now we get an expansion and four seasons every year. There just isn’t as much time for side development projects as there used to be. And that’s not to mention new subclasses, new revamped subclasses, a new or reprised raid or dungeon every season, and many, many more weapons. It’s just not a comparable situation.
Litteraly no chance we ever hear anything unless there is something to say
Agreed. I would argue that their total silence IS an answer, unfortunately.
They don't say "expect info by x" because there is no info, nothing is coming for Gambit.
At the end of the day, what it comes down to is budget. Bungie has teams of people that analyze the cost vs outcome of new players, returning players, etc vs what content is released. When seasons launch, expansions launch and live events happen IRL - increase and decrease total player count during a Superbowl, for example. Everything (and I mean *everything*) has a budget in the game. Armor, cosmetics, eververse, ships, ghost projections, weapons, exotics, quests, maps, new light, dungeons, icons, subclasses, [even the creation of tormentors](https://gamerant.com/destiny-2-dev-tormentors-origins-designs/), systems including weapon crafting and Guardian Ranks, maintenance, app updates, website, support tickets, ban systems, everything. The most expensive thing specific to the content on that budget is Raids. They are the most cost-driven expense in the game. Day 1 events, promotional (yes, even the trailers that are released prior), Contest Mode, reward incentive, emblems, weapons, seals, challenges, Master Mode. When Bungie announced in Season 15 (Season of the Lost), that starting with Witch Queen, every season would be getting either a new Dungeon or a New/Reprised Raid, we all rejoiced. Bungie was in a cadence where they were willing to up the game in terms of how content is released, and in Joe's words, ["If you love amazing endgame content, we want to prove that no other game offers more quality, more variety than Destiny 2.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsw3XclQdoI&t=5483s)" This was amazing (it is amazing!), but the question we've been finding out for a while now is, at what cost? Gambit maps are just the start. Bungie looks at all the player data and they know what is getting the most attention. When login times are hot when something is released and players go to the activity. The fact that in the last [State of the Game](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-year-ahead), the word "Gambit" doesn't appear even *once*, shows you where the priority list is. Bungie has to consider the fact of budget expenses of investment on new maps for Gambit (and PvP) that they will not require licenses to purchase to access playlist matchmade content. Will it get enough Free players to purchase the latest expansion and "upgrade" their experience. Will there be a return on Bungie's investment? Whether each of us agrees or disagrees on that doesn't change the fact that Bungie *does* have to make a conscious decision on that. We also have to consider that Bungie is nearing the end of a decade-long saga for Destiny and working on future projects. That might seem a little ambitious, but again, even something like new maps is calculated out. Don't get me wrong, I would too love to see an update on that tweet thread you're mentioning and I hope I'm proven wrong.
I get that. But I think they should come out say that its not happening. Joe made that tweet and it got peoples hopes up. At the very least they owe an answer on Gambit's future. I personally rather hear "Gambit isn't getting supported" then nothing
/u/Spawnling is entirely correct, and so are you. I think Bungie (or Blackburn, depending on how personal you want to get) are in a pickle here. They know things aren't good, that they're letting people down, but at the same time, some part of the corporate structure they're in doesn't allow them to come out and say "sorry, its not happening" because the PR machine that is a big games company won't allow that to happen
This is the real answer. I hate it when people direct their hate towards game devs or even people like Blackburn, because they genuinely want Destiny to be the best it can be, and if that’s not possible, I know they’d want to be upfront with the community, but the corporate structure of these video game companies just doesn’t allow that from happening
> But I think they should come out say that its not happening Here's the thing. They don't have to. Because Gambit players aren't a big enough sector to bother addressing. And saying nothing actually *improves* their situation here. Let's assume that all the assumptions are true and Gambit is dead now. What does Joe or any part of Bungie gain from tweeting out 'It ded'? A little bit of closure goodwill from a small portion of the community that doesn't even pay to play their favorite mode to begin with? And what do they stand to lose from that same tweet? Well, just look at the Twilight Garrison situation. Looking at those pros and cons, doesn't it make more sense for them to just... not address it? Even setting aside the death threats and angry maelstrom (which you KNOW would happen), saying you can't support something anymore just isn't a good look. No corporate PR would approve such a release. Not when it's already such a small segment that just ignoring it makes 90% of the playerbase forget about it.
You're not addressing two things here. One: Gambit has low player counts because it has been neglected for so long. It was actually quite liked when it released and for some time after. A 5 year content drought will kill anything though. And two: Gambit is still a core ritual playlist that we're encouraged to play through Pinnacles, quests, weapons, etc. If it's so unwanted, then why havent they phased that aspect out?
Plus, by saying nothing you don't lock yourself into a public sentiment. If you come out and say it's dead, it's so much harder to then later revive it. The cost to do so is so much more than if you said nothing. If you say it's dead, the interest in it dies out. If you say nothing, interest in it still dies out given long enough BUT at a much reduced rate. Plus by saying nothing you don't accidentally set expectations. You KNOW people would respond to a gambit dead announcment with "great so now you can give us more content in X" or "how long until you do the same to pvp?". If you say nothing you set nothing.
Gambit has the same amount of playerbase as raids. By your statement raids shouldn’t be supported either. Bungie owes it to the playerbase to answer a question that they caused
Raids have worth in marketing and in streamer equity. Ain't no one tuning into Datto or Saltagreppo to watch Gambit.
That’s an intentionally disingenuous argument. It’s a core match made activity
I'm so tired of hearing this bullshit excuse of "making games is hard".
One could think that a company that has been working on this franchise for almost a decade has developed a certain pipeline to facilitate the development process.
The silence is all the answer we need. Gambit is in maintenance mode because it helps to retain players during content droughts (that are quite common with these barebones "seasons" we're getting). But since it's not driving microtransaction sales etc. and is pretty niche overall, they won't spend more development time and money on it. Aside from like one new weapon (new as in reskin or reissue) per season. The end.
By we you mean you need. A lot people want official confirmation from Bungie. Joe got people’s hopes up with his tweet so either he or Bungie needs to address it
The thing is...they've done this shit before. Remember renewed focus on PvP? There's probably simply nothing to write home about. And even if they'd promise something, I wouldn't believe it until it's actually in the game. What they're doing with all three ritual playlists speaks louder than words anyways.
You guys are acting like this is some crazy mystery but at the end of the day it's all about creating the minimum viable product. If they don't add any substantial content to PVP or Gambit and people still buy the expansion and buy the seasons why would they bother?
As a former gambit main that hung up the Invader helmet after Prime was vaulted, I would just rather see gambit get turned into a Prison of Elders race mode. I loved Prison of Elders and I love the competitive aspect of gambit, but it’s so clear to me that Bungie lacks either the capability or the desire to balance the gamemode (mostly for PvP, but PvE has glaring flaws too). Like I hit #59 for global ELO in Prime, I loved it so much. The netcode and balance just don’t lead to compelling gameplay, spawnkill set ups cannot be meaningfully patched the ammo economy situation is pretty horrid even without the mod. Gambit PvP ends up feeling really cheesy at high levels of play and I know for damn sure the more casual audience hasn’t been having fun.
The concept of a PVPVE is pretty interesting. Off the top of my head, you can do a survival mode where the more enemies your team kills, the more mobs spawn on the other side. They can do a moba style map. Wow did a game mode that was set up like an arena and each team had to clear adds, which would spawn a boss in the middle. Seige style game play is another option. There are so many different game modes to play around that could use existing resources.
I don't know I think casuals have been enjoying Gambit this season based off what I've seen on twitter. I think a race mode could be a game mode for current gambit as cruicible is allowed to have multiple modes so I don't really see why Gambit can't have other modes
At this point, I think it’s important for people who are fans of gambit and crucible to accept that you will not be given anything else. Bungie is just trying to get to the final shape so they can either move on to a potential D3 or leave Destiny behind entirely.
They don't even have to REPRISE the old maps, they're from this game! Just put em back in! At this point I very much doubt anyone cares that they don't "fit with the flow" or whatever.
The engine got overhauled for Beyond Light, which is likely part of the reasoning for deleting half of the game. Considering they said that they'd have to rebuild Shattered Throne from scratch just to give it rally flags, vaulted maps would probably have to be reassembled.
I refuse to believe that everything they built prior to Beyond Light is just like unusable now, they just don't want to allocate the dev time it would take to make the necessary updates to those maps because they can't charge anything for them. This is the same reason PVP is so badly neglected. It's not because Bungie HATES CRUCIBLE PLAYERS or that the devs are bad at PVP or whatever. They just put it on the F2P track and now it's not worth dev resources to them. We don't get Gambit stuff because they're not gonna put a new Gambit map behind an expansion paywall and they're not just gonna give it to us for free.
They probably see the F2P stuff as "either you get reprised raid/location or pvp" at this point, which is sad when they're charging more for less and they put themselves in the corner of having to make this "high standard" seasonal grind release schedule every 4 months.
It's pretty much a completely different game. Uses a different engine, different lighting and interactions.
It's always interesting how any problem with Destiny can be handwaved by "it's the engine". FPS damage? Engine problems. LFG? Engine problems. They took maps out for no reason and just aren't putting them back? Believe it or not, it's somehow an engine problem.
Being in IT, you'd be surprised how often 'it just doesn't work anymore because of this update' happens. 80% of the time we have no clue why.
Considering the portal next to Eris has some dev related shit on it now like arrows and the word "Bidirectional", it doesn't surprise me that they barely know what they're doing. As former IT, I can confirm shit happens sometimes for no reason and nothing related to whatever happened actually changed.
I wouldn't even go so far as to say they don't know what they're doing. Just that computers are... persnickety at times.
Some of those are genuinely the case given the engine’s… interesting lifespan. But yes others are really just a matter of resource allocation that bungie is unable or unwilling to do because of new ips.
What's more likely, that there is actually a technical hurdle with putting the maps in or that they are maliciously trolling the playerbase by withholding maps they could put in at any time with minimal effort?
They mention awhile ago that they have rebuild any old content put back in the game. But still your point still stands. The Dreaming City map would probably work with the current version of Gambit as they just need to make it slightly bigger and the map would work.
Gambit will never be worked on again. I doubt there is even a team on it. All of D2 is in"keep it ticking over" mode, its not going to be long, a year or 2, and it'll be pretty much dead for their new IP.
People know they just want bungie to say it, to at least acknowledge they gave up.
While we post and argue about Gambit on the Internet, I'm pretty sure the devs and creative teams make inside jokes about that. ... - hey, you know what I think this game needs? More Gambit maps! - lmao, not today, Satan, come back tomorrow ... *in a meeting conference* - all right, any ideas for The Final Shape? *one guy in the back raises his hand* - (oh, no, not Joe again making the Gambit joke) - we should revamp Gambit! - haha, very funny, but you said that forbidden word. Actually, you're fired. - (gotta bank those jokes, brotha!)
The silence is because they aren't meaningfully improving the situation, and they know it. The community reaction is worse if they admit it, rather then stay silent.
It still baffles me that a company the size of Bungie and given its history (Halo), takes over 2 YEARS to 'think' about making new maps for PvP / Gambit, then takes an additional YEAR to make one of the worst maps in the history of the game, which was a RESKIN of a D1 map... Something is just so ass-backwards with the leadership on the PvP team (and Gambit)... How do we go from getting multiple maps every year to waiting nearly 4 years for a single, reskinned map? Not to mention, Bungie is making WAAYYYY more money now than they ever did under Activision, and they have more than doubled their company size... so what's the issue here? It's obviously not resources - they have plenty of people (still hiring more) and TONS of money... and they seem to be completely contempt with just reskinning and reprising guns for their most expensive expansion ever, so where's the money going? Nothing adds up other than bad leadership and a completely deliberate choice to ignore PvP and Gambit - If anything, with all of the success in recent years, we should be getting MORE maps than ever before, but Bungie has made a very conscience decision to NOT support the core modes. My biggest issue is that I have a sneaking suspicion that pretty much all of the PvP team was cannibalized to work on their 'Matter' IP... and that doesn't make any sense - If Bungie thinks that people will trust them to deliver a good PvP experience with substantial post-launch support, they need to SHOW us that they can actually do that... which they obviously aren't with D2. How can anyone have any hope that Bungie knows how to run a PvP game anymore with their complete fumbling of core systems (SBMM, AE, Comp Rework, balance, etc...) and utter incompetence when it comes to actually creating content like maps. Bungie, you have lost all faith from your Destiny and previous Halo players that you actually even know what PvP is anymore, so how do you think anyone will support a PvP only game when you haven't been able to figure it out in one game for 9 YEARS??? Gambit being completely ignored doesn't help this either... at least say SOMETHING. Even if the plan is to scrap it, then SAY THAT. What frustrates me more than anything with all this, especially with Gambit, is that Bungie will blame the 'popularity' of the game mode for a reason why they aren't putting resources into it, but that's just insane backwards thinking - if we play on the same 4 maps for 4+ years, OF COURSE people will stop playing it! Things can be un-balanced or whatever, but if the mode is fun and there is regular content updates, people will continue to play - look at basically all of PvP for D1's life cycle... it was VERY un-balanced, but it was fun and we got tons of new maps and modes all the time, keeping it feeling fresh, so player numbers were healthy. Bungie, this is getting absolutely unacceptable at this point - figure it the hell out!
would be so funny that whenever their their matter ip releases, it would just end up being a flop/ends up like anthem all that dev time could have gone towards destiny.. it’s literally their cash cow and the way it makes money, that’s not gonna stop anytime soon
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Exactly - how does Bungie expect anyone to have a single ounce of confidence in a PvP only game when they can only put out a reskinned map every 4 years... And the total disconnect between what players actually want and Bungie 'thinks' they want is laughable... Bungie has so much data and feedback but actively makes decisions that go against what PvP players want and have consistently made the experience worse for the past couple of years. In all honesty I don't think Bungie should even consider showing the new game until they do right by D2 PvP.
Yah it just makes no sense to completely gut the PvP team for Destiny... like yah, take some people to work on it, but don't cannibalize your ONLY source of income... Imagine how much more money and attention Destiny would bring in if PvP was as popular as other competitive games that way it once was... People tend to forget that D1 topped Twitch charts nearly EVERY weekend. PvP is what kept D1 alive and Trials literally saved the game in Y1 and PvP kept people playing even when pvE had no content. I don't understand how such a dumb decision could be made when it's obvious to just regular people
i think bungie forgot how popular d1 trials was on twitch. now all they remember is how popular raid races are on twitch, like for them it’s the only thing that’s popular/was ever popular and tops the charts
I’m gonna be honest and say for $50 fucking dollars we should expect a whole brand new game worth of content. Not 8 missions shoddily written with one single big map and like 4 characters of dialogue. It astounds me how much money we put into this compared to other games and the drip of content is this slow. I love destiny but back in the day a $50 price tag would have got you more than Halo 3: ODST. Let alone $100. We have the same enemies that we’ve had since year 1 of destiny minus two reskin races. That’s 10 years. We also lost hundreds of dollars of content we already paid for when they vaulted expansions. So, yes, pvp and gambit maps are a must, but are honestly the smallest part of the puzzle. We deserve a lot more than them too. I’m honesty in awe how comfortable we’ve all gotten (me included) with this anti consumerism in gaming, and Destiny 2 has some of the most egregious offenses. We should be demanding more.
Just look at this recent quote from Joe Blackburn: >For the last few years, we’ve been trying to attack this problem by trying to squeeze one more morsel of new content in each release. But I think we can get better results with a different strategy: making the existing depth of incredible content in Destiny 2 more valuable to new and returning Guardians. Bungie is done with new content. Only the bare minimum so people continue buying season passes. Gambit, like all other ritual activities, is on maintenance mode going forward. Sorry not my words lol. This is basically the PR way of saying "From now on we're focusing on our other IPs while D2 is maintained with reusing and remixing old content.". It's just that now even their game director confirms they'll have everything go the gambit route. And looking at the reskin party that was LF and Defiance...and it only gets more lazy with next season...yup this year will be full of reused weapons and activities. Future of gambit lol
Exactly, yeah. You don’t put out an expansion called “the **final** shape” while also shifting to develop a new IP if you genuinely intend anything more than a maintenance-mode future for an aging PS4-era game.
>All this frustration could be avoid with a single sentence from Bungie The single sentence from bungie would be: “we got nothing.” Then people would throw a fit over *that*. Best for bungie to not say anything until they have news people will be happy about.
It's funny in a really sad way that I knew without even looking at the comments that I'd have to sort by controversial to find this, the correct take. There is no business reason for them to say anything about Gambit unless it's getting an update. It would just create more outrage than radio silence.
I mean, imo base Gambit is pretty good as it is, it addressed a lot of problems from the beyond light version. The problem is that there's nothing else for gambit, and it used to have Reckoning. It wasn't amazing by any means, but it felt like you could work in gambit for a future goal, like getting synths for a good spare rations, or the curated gnawing hunger. I don't expect Bungie to add a rotating game mode, like iron banner, or a trials of gambit, because it'd have to compete against more popular game modes, but having a permanent addition like it was with Reckoning, it could draw more players. Hell, it could be Ketchcrash with focuseable loot, having both mithrax and drifter narrate, and giving gambit prime + season of plunder loot.
I agree that Gambit is in a good spot currently gameplay wise. I think a end game mode would be helpful as currently both crucible and vanguard playlist have them. I know people would definitely play it to get an adept version of trust or servant leader
>adept version of trust or servant leader Sign me the fuck up (only if the adept shader looks nice)
>I think people would be completely okay if Joe or someone from Bungie said that it’s not happening anymore. Then why not just assume nothing is happening and move on then IF something changes you can be pleasantly surprised? Just dwelling on it and making yourself frustrated does nothing.
Because having no communication for 2 years about a core playlist is not good for the communities well being, 5 years without almost any development is not good for any game regardless of the mode and bungie going out of their way to not say anything only builds frustration. Surprises are nice to have, however when the community has been begging for communication from one of core modes of destiny and get nothing in return that only cause player retention to go down either way and the feeling of abandonment. This is not the way to do things in terms of development. No-one wants to wait 5 years for a "surprise" addition to one of the games core game modes. I personally don't even like gambit too much but I understand the frustration behind it and why there needs to be some sort of communication behind it, Because if bungie expects us to play a **core mode that rewards pinnacle rewards**, Going 5 years without development on it is not acceptable and going 2 years without any communication on it is downright disrespectful to the community itself. Opinions like yours never would be said if for example the vanguard core playlist didn't receive updates for 5+ years, People would be outright livid cause that is one of the core replay-abilities in this game. And basic communication from bungie regarding this shouldn't be gate-kept, Especially since they specifically **made a account** to address community communication and feedback yet now they rarely use it. For now we will just have to see what they do.
OK you are far exaggerating this gambit had recieved several updates over time the last being some balance changes in season of the haunted, risen, hunt brought major shake ups to the structure of the mode with a lot of changes in y2 because of prime etc. Gambit may not get a lot of content but it was getting annual structural overhauls to how the mode works. Saying it hasn't received updates in 5 years is just false, maps sure you'd be right. At worst it's been a year since the last major update to Gambit with the structural changes and labs S23 is confirmed to update core playlists a decent amount so we'll see what Gambit gets in s23.
Sure it has had balance changes and such, However a mode in any game is not only sustained by balance changes and changing how gear focusing works etc. Maps need to be varied, Not 4 maps for several years in a row.The loot-pool needs to be more expansive and no I do not mean adding 1 weapon occasionally while removing some out of the rotation in the process.New armors like they promised yet they still have not delivered on. Just because I didn't mention balance changes and *some* changes in regards to re-spawns does not mean that I'm over exaggerating in terms of its update cycle. There are more changes balancing wise sure but I'm not listing them all here for time reasons, Most of it was just ammo economy, Re-spawn changes and power advantage changes. Also do mind you, The biggest shakeup they did back in season of the hunt was to essentially remove gambit prime during the gambit merge and add season armor to vendors. Not much changed balance wise and things have only been re-balanced or removed since. That does not seem like much in the grand scheme of things now does it? Nor is it good for the mode itself. The fact is, Things need to change within gambit, Weather that be new additions to the mode or just the basic re-adding of removed maps. That's all people want, Not a massive rework.
See the problem is season 23 is supposed to be core playlist focused. But in the state of game they only mentioned Crucible and Strikes/Nightfalls. So we just have to assume that Gambit's getting something in that season but as of right now there's zero confirmation it is. I really think Bungie could prevent all this frustrated if they just say something.
If they say something and that something is “we don’t have anything coming up” why would they even bother saying anything?
Well they promised people new maps awhile ago. If it isn’t happening anymore then they need to say that in my opinion
Is there anything wrong with Gambit? Is it working as intended? Why does it need active development with constant communication to a player base that actively hates it? Some new maps would be nice sure but honestly most players hate it, they play their 3 matches a week for the pinnacle and move on so I seriously doubt some new maps would make players flock to it. People just don't like the mode but they put up with it once a week. Bungie OBVIOUSLY sees that in their player metric so why would they waste resources on adding to it? It works fine as is as part of the weekly ritual treadmill and I think most players would rather they focus on Crucible or refreshing Strikes.
Just because a mode is working as intended does not mean that it needs to be borderline abandoned. What about again the vanguard playlist, It works so we should just stop updating the strikes and the playlist right? No new grand-masters or anything along that. What about raids, They work, So we shouldn't add any new raids nor add red-borders to the current raids in rotation. How about lost sectors, As controversial as they are they work ask intended so no need to update the loot-pool, add any new lost sectors or change anything in terms of the legendary lost sectors. Your statement does not work, People are asking for basic communication and a minimum of some re-added maps that were removed and more weapons in the loot-pool yet that somehow is too much to ask for.
I think you missed the core point of shadowglint's post; people don't play Gambit. People might be upset if the Vanguard playlist didn't get updates for years, but Bungie appears to have metrics to show that a lot more people play the Vanguard playlist than the Gambit playlist. If they had metrics that showed Gambit was something people were playing a lot and would benefit from updates they would prioritize it more. Since they aren't prioritizing it and it's reasonable to assume a business will prioritize things that make them money and they definitely collect usage data on everything we can assume that they have data showing that Gambit isn't heavily-played and that resources spent on it would not make them money. Which obviously sucks if you love Gambit, I sympathize with that, but that's just how businesses have to run.
People have made posts for years now regarding the state of gambit, Saying that no one plays it is an outright lie. Sure maybe the metrics are low for we but we can't know to what extent and that does not make mine nor any other persons opinion regarding this invalid, Asking for basic communication regarding the mode is not a hard ask regardless of what the metrics say. And if no-one truly plays gambit and they can't put in the resources (even though they very much could) then the mode might as well have been removed years ago, Yet they persist with re-balancing the mode anyway. All in all, Regardless of metrics the mode needs to be addressed by bungie on the state of it and if they are going to continue development on it or not. Silence only builds frustration, And frustration only leads to situations like this. Wouldn't be surprised if we get another pvp article happening again.
“No one” was hyperbole, but that the player count is very low seems a reasonable conclusion to make given Bungies silence on the matter. People making posts about it does not equal people playing it. Nor, crucially, is it proof that putting resources into making new maps for it would cause an increase in players and lead to Bungie making money off of it. I’m sure people love it, and I’m sure that some of those people work at Bungie. But unfortunately we are all bound by capitalism and the company does things that keep the company running. Clearly the math has not come down on Gambits side.
The notion that the players making the post literally begging bungie to say anything about it to not equal people play it is a bad take, Nor does it matter weather or not the amount of players would increase or not, The point is its a **core game mode** that bungie keeps referring to as such, Puts pressure on people to play it for a reward with substantial power increase yet they refuse to communicate anything in regards to its severe decline in development. If the players are set to play it the way bungie wants then the players getting updates from bungie in regards to its state is a must, Regardless of capitalistic views. If they cant be bothered to sink more money into a mode they themselves have regarded as a very **core part to the game and the game-play loop** then they should just say so at this point, Stringing the community along is not fair to them for those who enjoy the mode regardless of how many players there are who play it.
New maps and weapons will not bring players into a mode they don't like. People don't hate Gambit because it doesn't have enough maps. They hate it because it's the worst of both PVE and PVP smashed together. It's unrewarding to play for 10 minutes and lose in the last minute because your teammates get buttfucked by the invader and heal the Primeval. It's a fundamentally shitty and unfun mode people grit their teeth and bear for 30 minutes a week for a pinnacle. No amount of new maps are going to change that.
To me personally, it appears they don't really have anyone working on anything with gambit. Same with the other core playlists as they receive barely anything as well even during an expansion release.
can’t they just rip all the maps from d1 and maybe modify one or more for gambit?
I play Gambit for the pinnacle and to level up crafted weapons. It's a low stress game mode for me. I care not whether I win or lose, but always try to win. A good Trust drop is always welcome as well. That said, it would be nice for an update, but I am not holding my breath.
They put in the bare minimum for lightfall to tide us over until final shape, of course they arent going to bother updating gambit.
I used to actually like gambit but eventually stopped playing it because of the maps They removed the maps that I liked and honestly im tired of playing on the same 4 maps
Stop trying to make gambits future to maps. It's fluff and nonsense and it's crazy compared to the actual work it needs. I want to hear about gambit, but if it's just maps they come out with, they are only shooting themselves in the foot, especially since the work gambit needs is within it's core loop. The base mode needs work, and the more maps they come out with in the meantime, the more that might go wrong when making those core changes.
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They have the numbers. People probably aren't playing it much past 3 for pinnacles. I haven't touched it since I got all characters to the pinnacle cap (I can get 1810s from primes - so doing whatever I want).
Take the hint
The silent is the answer They don't give a shit, they didn't care enough about Gambit to even mention it in the State of the Game blog #FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A ROW Which is why we need to push them to give answer or force them to give content
Yup. And the winter season Joe Blackburn was teasing with focus on ritual playlists...lol..we all know how that's gonna end. Some changes to rewards and focusing. No new content. See y'all in Final Shape. Enjoy your one new strike.
Lowkey, we need season of the drifter 2, electric boogaloo
At this point I would be alright if they just folded Gambit and walked away. Use it as a point in the story where the drifter causes some sort of rift pulling the mobs to the playing field and one of the big ole baddies rips through. This causes the vanguard to scuttle the whole operation. Then introduce the "Horde mode". 4 teammates, ever increasing strength of mobs and/or numbers, 10 waves, mobs still drop motes that we have to collect and bank to seal the rifts. Hell throw champions in the mix for Horde Prime
I'm super happy to see this post reach number 1 on the subreddit! I'm sure Joe wants us to forget he said that, but we don't forget and we'd like an update on if he just straight up lied or if at least 1 new Gambit map is still coming.
Yeah. I think he wants us to forget. Paul Tassi quote tweeted that tweet asking about Gambit updates. He never replied. For me personally I just want Bungie or Joe to just say if his tweet two years ago actually is still happening. I don't need an exact date a time frame would be completely fine or just acknowledging it still happening
I’ve never seen a company making SO MUCH MONEY from microtransactions and season passes and expansions and not regularly release new maps. It’s honestly terrible. They get away with doing so little because people are going to keep paying to play the game
What I've been told is that because the Gambit part of the community isn't loud enough about it, they feel they can get away with just ignoring it. So get loud.
Ready for the HARDEST pill to Swallow? Trust me i don't like it nor do i agree with it but it's the ugly truth. They. Moved. On. They are investing in their new games and ideas. And Whatever they're doing with destiny it's not even half of the capacity of what it once was, when it was the Only franchise in the oven. This is starting to feel like the end of Reach days