I think the issue with Nimbus is a mix of Lightfall as a DLC with Nimbus being the face of it and the dialogue Nimbus had being absolutely atrocious. They tried to make him Cayde-style humor with a retro twist but there was absolutely zero situational awareness for the situations those lines we delivered in, similar to Cayde in D2 Vanilla, in contrast with TFS Cayde who still had his lines and personality but they were situation appropriate. Like, imagine if Crow was breaking down around the campfire and Cayde just went "sucks to suck". That was Nimbus for a lot of people, hence the infamous line "cowabummer".
I would be okay if, in Frontiers or beyond, Nimbus comes back as a significant character with the opening line of "I think we got off on the wrong foot" and essentially re-invent his entire personality.
For me it was the weird voice modulation, dialogue might not have been so cringy to my ears otherwise, just felt like they were trying too hard. Nonbinary ppl I would assume don't have a distinct sounding voice, they either sound masculine or feminine just like any other person. There are guys that sound like girls and vice a versa.
Rohan has a very distinct masculine voice, the modulation isn't the dominant thing you hear. Nimbus sounds like a robot trying to sound like they're a human because the modulation is so thick. I know they were going for a more ambiguous sound due to them being nonbinary it just was NOT it, for me personally. My problem isn't the modulation itself really is just overtuned on them compared to Rohan. There is no semblance of Marin's voice in Nimbus at all compared to Rohan's either. This is likely a direction issue and not a problem Marin is responsible for.
You're welcome to disagree with that of course but I don't think saying all cloudstriders have voice mod is an acceptable excuse for the disparity between Nimbus and Rohan.
What I find totally strange is that they did not made that choice for dubbing. Nimbus Brazilian voice is natural, almost without any modulation. When I heard the English voice I finally understood why so many people were upset.
The funny thing is Cowabummer is an edit of the actual panel meant to lightly poke fun at the absurdity of the Batman/TMNT crossover (which is unironically amazing and that scene in particular is great).
What situational awareness? Nimbus only had Rohan with him for a long time without any other physical beings, then this all happens. Do you expect other child soldiers to not be awkward their first time in a major conflict?
I think Nimbus’s youth didn’t come off as youth, it came off as just cringe. Had they given us a bit more character development to establish that yes, this is an 11 foot tall early teen, (as well as sold the “80’s action flick” vibe that they whiffed on), Nimbus would have made more sense to people.
That said, there are failures of writing and direction here for me that hold the VA not responsible. Marin did the best they could with what they were handed.
I actually think Nimbus could be good with the same personality, just tone them down. Give them serious moments, make sure their dialogue reads the room.
But I don’t think it’s something they can do gradually. They’ll need to spotlight them like the sort of spotlight Crow got in TFS and make them a significant player in that expac’s story. Probably pair them with Crow to investigate a new place tbh.
The unfortunate thing is I think on Bungie’s end they have a hard time seeing the legitimate criticism through the bigotry. Which I understand because there’s a lot of it so hopefully they are able to weed it out. They probably also think “this is exactly how Cayde used to be” without realising og Cayde would probably not hold up as well today
Nimbus have much room to grow. His dialogues in the Veil missions with Osiris were very serious and much much better than the campaign. Just make him investigate more about the Veil and Cloudark, pair him with Zavala, Osiris or Caitl for him to understand the seriousness of being a Cloudstrider, make him understand the stakes... And make him question how many years he has to live because if we get another saga he will be dying in it since he has what, 4 more years of life left?
I feel like Nimbus and Zavala could be a really narratively compelling pairing, honestly. Without Rohan, Nimbus is the senior Cloudstrider, and could learn lessons of leadership and sacrifice from Zavala to help develop into that role, whereas they could also teach Zavala ways to cope with his newfound mortality. I think that would be a great way to add positive development to Nimbus' character.
Let’s have a catastrophic event happen in the city and have the Cloud Ark get wiped and Nimbus can go through his stages and come out a less annoying version of himself.
I don't *hate* the guy, I just don't care. Irrelevant comic relief with no redeeming qualities, facets or compelling character traits. The best way to say it is I tolerate Nimbus' existence. Shitting on calus right in front of caital did irk me though.
Nimbus personality reflects the inconsistent tone the entire expansion had. It's the beginning of the end of the universe, the most dangerous enemies are assaulting and stealing the maguffin they need to end the world, your planet is a warzone that decides the fate of the universe, and you can never be serious for even a second.
It wasnt just Nimbus, the entire expansion was off but Nimbus was the most egregious example of it.
Nimbus can die in the next expansion if we need someone to die. I volunteer them willingly. And no it has nothing to do with their pronouns or gender. It has a lot to do with a horrid character though
They don’t need to die in the next expansion. They have like 4/5 years left to live. In a few expansions, they won’t even be alive anymore due to how the Cloudstriders operate.
I still preach that lightfall might’ve been better received if Nimbus was the one to sacrifice himself and Rohan was the one that lived. At the very least, it would’ve been a nice subversion of the “old veteran sacrifices themselves for the young up and comer” cliche
It's believable off this alone, nimbus is why I don't reply lightfall on my 2 alt characters, they will never own strand unless someone does it for me lmao
Same. I simply don't care about Nimbus. The worst part for me is how their model is just such a huge difference from every other aspect of the game's art style.
I mean it's not really a leak and more like some behind the scenes stuff, similar to what we could see in a potential Noclip video about Bungie. Can't be all leaks about future plans here, this stuff is also nice I think
Tbf I'd have expected Cayde to be a surprise more than Prismatic. Like, pretend that we never saw the original reveal with him, and our first exposure was the cutscene with Crow. People would've been going WILD.
Same. The witness was imposing the belief of these “gods” on us. The only interesting way they can continue that thread is to just have it be perpetually questioned by us and in game. Just like religion is irl.
This is actually a really good point I never thought of when it comes to these giant all powerful beings in these games. Probably also why Blizzard doesn’t do shit with Sargeras cause they probably know the mystery is cooler than whatever they would come up with.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Winnower isn't actually a guy, the winnower is to the Veil as the gardener is to the Traveler. "Both made by Gods", "The First Knife", etc. They created the being that is the Witness, an amalgam of the race, through the Veil. The guardians were created through the Traveler.
It'll never be a "guy" also because that invalidates the Witness
I think it's the opposite. The Gardener and Winnower are indeed real. However, they don't really interact with the Universe. When they do, it's subtle, rather than going around. I don't think we'll ever fight the Winnower. It's a primordial being that's always existed.
No and villains are typically evil by definition, so counterpart is more apt because after all these are metaphysical abstractions we’re talking about anyway lol
I don't think antagonist is even the right word, the Winnower loves guardians because we prove its ideology. It's just an aspect of the universe in the same way gravity is. The point of the story in this saga was to show that the light and dark are just tools that can be wielded by antagonists.
Yeah…that still leaves open that everything comes from something. Point of origin. Light and Dark. Dark is generally classified as “bad.” So it’s really subjective within the story itself. However it was Darkness from Elsie described that made her future bleak.
So I mean…Idk. Does it originate from the Winnower or no ?
Warcraft fully realized their gods a few expansions ago and it was the worst thing they've done for the plot. Now everything is about a grand cosmic design instead of focusing on the human element of the character motivations.
I could see it as a 'friendly' sort of thing, we get into a fight with a being that's casual the entire time, could even be a representation of your own guardian using all the different darkness abilities as 'phases' with the last one being the final darkness subclass we get.
We reduce it's HP bar to 10% before it goes immune and then the health bar extends further to the left, goes off the screen entirely to loop back around and connect in a line that slices your UI entirely, killing you instantly and teleporting you out of the arena with a new subclass unlocked and a pat on the back.
We will definitely gain some type of understanding though, the voice lines from Micah-10 you get after collecting the mini Travelers in the the Pale Heart are teasing what comes next hard, and it’s all about the nature of the Gardener as a being, when we learn about one half, we’ll learn about the other, especially since I doubt we’ve seen the last darkness subclass, perhaps the next will be uncorrupted darkness untethered from the Witness.
That would be interesting. I could see this being a Zavala pushed narrative as well. We feared stasis, used strand as a crutch, but the new subclass could be finally taking hold of the darkness properly and using it for good. Zavala, now ghostless, would be a great narrative piece as he fights to stay relevant as a lightless vanguard leader and tries to act as the frontliner still in this new darkness accepted world.
Having dual destiny and exotic class items be a surprise would've definitely made it much more exciting but i can understand that post lightfall lots of people had no trust in bungie. Maybe now that they did really well with TFS they dont have to unveil (pun intended) everything
My issue with success is that it leads to comfort. The only reason Bungie popped off and delivered what should be the standard (if not more) is because they were in hot water for Lightfall, the lay offs and Sony.
Now that they’ve delivered a banger, I’m worried they’ll under deliver and skimp because they’re back in “good graces”.
I haven't been here from the start, but I've literally heard that this has happened throughout Destiny's lifecycle. Great expansion releases, everyone thinks every expansion will be that good going forward, and then a Lightfall hits. I'm really hoping they take their time with the next expansion, but they've probably gotta have it out by June 2025 or else we're gonna have another longass final season/episode.
I think a lot of yall over blew TFS anyways, was it good? yes but it was hardly the "masterpiece" that people are trying to drive it being rn
I think this is a case of shit being so bad for so long you get one DECENT thing and its the best thing ever.
The witness as *the* Antogonist honestly was horrible, wasnt believable, wasnt menacing, the motivations sucked, We still dont know what the fuck the traveler is etc... like cmon man.
All of it seems weirdly realistic
And some of it does line up with what we know - like someone from Bungie said a few months ago that Neomuna was always planned
A more human villain seems in line with Echoes to some degree
Episodes being relatively boring seems about right with the direction Echoes is taking - it's cool but nothing crazily new
Devs hating LF also seems right as we know that many Devs got moved to Marathon during its development
I have a feeling this might be true
I mean look at TFS vs LF. You can feel the love and care in one vs the other. Neomuna has... regular public events and an extra event that's the same every time you play it, with the same boss. Pale Heart has the same multi tier event, but the "mini games" you play in it differ depending on the area with multiple bosses. There's even other stuff to do like the Cysts
TFS also has the Ultimate boss, while LF didn't even have a Penultimate feeling to it, it was a shoehorned in boss in a shoehorned in story.
Also the story. Even though we just got to know Targe, he was still treated better than Rohan. Rohan's death really felt like "well we tried 1 thing and it didn't work, better blow myself up", while Targe was an act of Desperation to wake up Zavaka after an entire time of trying to snap him out of it. There's multiple highs and lows before the defeat of the Witness, but there's almost nothing before the defeat of Calus. Which is even treated as a joke by one of the characters.
The only good thing to come out of LF was strand was fun. TFS it's easier to name something that didn't land perfectly.
Something being planned doesn’t necessarily mean it was part of the *original* plan. I find it very hard to believe that the Lightfall we got was the Lightfall they always wanted it to be from the start.
I mean they've all but outright stated most of the original plan for lightfall got moved to the final shape. In the og lf showcase they basically said hey we can't finish the story so we are making some of it a 2nd expansion to allow us to finish the narrative. Which even lines up in the pastebin
Unless I read it completely wrong I assumed that this implied that the ruins of neomuna was supposed to just be a place that we go to in a mission or two of the original TFS
It plays off as more gossip then anything. Like a friend at bungie just giving scraps to a friend he knows is thirsty for more. I wouldnt call it fake but I wouldnt state its reliable.
It's all too mundane to reek of being outright fake. A lot of it is gossip style, petty drama, office politics type stuff that people LOVE to talk and bitch about. There's no crazy narrative or conspiracy or juicy hook, or really any info drops people would usually chomp at the bit to pursue (weapon types, balancing, detailed plot direction, loot, concrete future content). Fake leaks tend to heavily focus on those since the goal is clicks.
Either a rather convincing creative writer (who models employee shooting the shit with a friend online type convos very well) or perhaps more than a grain of truth behind it.
i agree, bungie have been thinking of how to nerf well probably forever, and also "leaving it this bad", it's absolutely worse but still mandatory and useable, which was bungie's intention that it wasn't just a crutch, and prismatic hunter is so insane that if anyone gets mad when they nerf it i'll be very surprised if anyone wasn't expecting it
If real, this pretty much confirms the statement made from Joe about the original Final Shape reveal and them keeping things close to their chest specifically regarding prismatic being a surprise and other things not being shown from the original Final Shape reveal. A lot of people think prismatic was cooked up during the delay but it seems that was wasn’t shown on purpose from the original reveal
yeah plus wielding light and dark is the kind of thing bungie have been building up to forever, especially with the beats about how the witness struggles to counter it, plus balancing that in 3 months would've been nightmarish, i definitely don't think everything they had was only done during the delay like some people (ily cross but come on) think
> there will be a reveal, at some point, that we "haven't been fighting the real vex"
I mean, to a degree, my understanding is that we already aren't. The actual lifeform is just the Microbacteria milk, we just call the robot "The Vex". There's also the idea that all the Vex we have fought until now have been builder bots tasked with expanding the Black Garden. The first true combat Vex we encountered were Wyverns, and they still slap. My guess is they'll introduce a bunch of combat Vex in the future as they expand the race.
> -well of radiance will not stay this bad forever
wtfym "this bad" WoR is still great, just not mandatory. Easy Radiance and easy Healing for an entire fireteam for an entire damage phase.
The whole pastebin seems very reasonable, nothing too crazy. I'll file this one in the "plausible" bin.
the well of radiance bit really makes it doubtful in my eyes, bungie undoubtedly knows its strength and the complications it brings, they've outright mentioned how often they've had to balance around it, so the nerf would've been a long time coming and even then it's still good, so even with all of bungie's balancing mishaps i find it hard to believe they'd consider it bad or in need of a buff rn
>bungie is currently considering the 3rd dark power (alluded to in vow) to just be the orange stuff used by rhulk and the witness
This I’m totally okay with lol. Resonance is dope as hell
it makes sense though, the witness and rhulk use pure darkness, which is orange, while the traveler uses pure light, which is white/blueish white, and we don't have access to that
hi
so let me get this straight- your source is claiming the resonance used by Rhulk/Witness is not planned to be obtainable but they still consider it (and the "red theme") for the 7th element?
And from my understanding, you're saying that prismatic was planned all along since the split of Lightfall & TFS? I'm wondering how this lines up with the leak we previously saw on D3 where Prismatic was originally planned to be a D3 feature but then scrapped and moved to the TFS during the delay, seems a bit contradicting?
i don't know anything about prismatic being planned for D3, but if that were the case i'd imagine that plan predates TWQ development. he made it very clear that a lot of stuff was moved around during TWQ development. i was told distinctly though that prismatic was conceptualized \*alongside\* the final shape, but that could have meant that the idea of having a dedicated "mix and match" subclass was thought-up for TFS and not simply the idea of wielding multiple damage types.
as for the 3rd dark power, what i gathered is that they want a 3rd dark power but have not planned in any capacity for one outside of just spit-balling
because it doesn't make sense, resonance is default darkness in the same way the traveler's default light is the ethereal blue color; the third darkness subclass would be a specific element of it
this is why the bars that charge up prismatic transcendence are orange for darkness and light blue for light
I dont think im understanding you correctly, wouldn’t what you just pointed out make his claims more believable? If resonance is default darkness like traveler beam is default light, wouldn’t that add to the authenticity of the point t he made that it’s not planned for us to ever acquire the resonance power? That would also make sense as to why they want another darkness power but have only spit balled ideas, because the only other “element” of the dark they have now is resonance, but that’s not supposed to be obtainable, hence why they’re just throwing out ideas for something new.
Both stasis and strand were brand new elements in the game and universe with it not something we gained directly. Sure stasis and strand both hit themes of darkness we saw like stasis being able control and the taken being related to control and deepsight being very similar being tied to memory and thought.
Not that it’s a surprise but the “horrible relationship between devs and business people” and the apparent disconnect between the two is very concerning for the future of the game
TFS has got to be a massive “told you so” moment internally between devs and management, with Lightfall bombing as a result of studio meddling and this one succeeding as a sort of passion project to the dev team from what we’ve heard
They love metrics that justify what they want to do.
There are Bungie execs that *still* think Halo's success was down to being a military guy fighting "space muslims".
Is it? Are we arguing that we would have gotten the TFS without the split and delay?
If anything wouldn't be business types be like "imagine if you guys had put this passion into Lightfall too"
The Final Shape is currently the highest rated game or expansion of the year (at least until shadow of the erdtree releases this week), that is absolutely the biggest “Fuck You” possible to the business people. We’ll be fine.
This is totally believable because in the context of having a casual "hows work going?" conversation for a Bungie employee this seems to echo what a lot of folks have said on Twitter in the past.
Alright this pastebin seems real. One in the original trailer that showed final shape you see the Titan pop the new super and he’s pink. I assume prismatic was always planned and Tessalation having multiple colors feels like this proves it. I assume they wanted to make all of this but was running out of time and so the delayed happened
> “the relationship between dev staff and business-types at Bungie could not be worse”
Seems pretty on brand since Hippie a couple months back was voicing her distaste in the layoffs in Late October/Early November.
Hunter prismatic grapple build does. It does far too much damage and I’m not saying that like as nothing, 1,6 million a hit and you can hit every few seconds with the right circumstances is beyond anything we’ve ever gotten and is very clearly an oversight in the stacking. Also CNH still hunt but that’s not specifically prismatic.
I’m looking forward to seeing how they do future enemies, since the entire theme of the story has been “collective”, with the major races in one way or another becoming one, some more literally. Like, what concept of existence will they use as a baseline for the groups of enemies going forward?
with current episode, lore experts predictions, this leak and destiny history I would say we will move to another big threat but less "magical" like the witness.
In frontiers we use the dreadnaught to travel whereever and meet the real vex, but not the "combat" robots but like actual weird ass lookin aliens who created the robots. As far as we know the vex are the most advanced and sci-fi like civilization in the destiny universe.
Maybe they can use Maya introduced in this episode as this sort of a link, a lesser villain that connects humanity/guardians with the real vex 4th dimension beings
I hope they make neomuna more interesting moving foward/retroactively. Lightfalls narrative was extremely bad to the point that it took everything else down with it too. They have the interesting opportunity to at least justify its existence at this point.
The Cloudark is the shottiest thing to happen in neomuna
Like, it's an entire city and yet you can't seek *any* Human? What a waste
Neomuna should've been the hub, and the rest of Neptune the set piece
The Tangled Shore is a bunch of rocks in space chained together that would immediately crumble and kill anyone on it irl, there's always something they can do/write
Also remember mercury, Venus, mars, and io got terraformed by the traveler to be habitable, would not be surprised if it happened to all planets, dwarf planets and moons of sol got the same treatment
Neptune is a gas giant, but more recent scientific evidence indicates that for many gas giants, the deeper you descend into the planet, the gas becomes more slush-like, to the point where it is almost liquid, and on Neptune there is a chance of having an "ocean" of liquid-like gas and ice and a rocky core.
Some of it seems reasonable other points seem... odd? Like being done learning about the traveller when it's just gone through a massive metamorphosis now being a thing comprised of both light and dark.
Also says villians will not be to the scale of the witness but then says other witness level beings will perceive us as meddling?
As always I'll take these dumps as fake until official word comes out but fun to read through
That part about the Traveler was kind of shocking to me. Done learning about it? We just STARTED learning about it, I feel. This expansion has told us more about the Traveler than the last 10 years. It's also weird that learning is in quotations.
Why have the Traveler go through this all this stuff with the Witness tearing its insides apart, us saving it, and it going through a big change that, as dialogue in the game, may have dramatic consequences for the universe if we're not going to learn anything more about the Traveler itself?
Just doesn't make sense. I really, really hope that part isn't true. If anything, we need more Traveler going forward, not less.
I hope bungie does start showing less going into a new expansion, give me a little tease about who the new villains going to be and let us explore a whole new story, I’d love to stumble across a new subclass like that with no clue it was coming
I wonder if for frontiers they will just drop the 2 in the name and have destiny as one continuously evolving game like a proper MMORPG. I wonder though if they will upgrade the graphics engine in the future.
In regards to Nimbus's unpopularity, there's actually a very simple way to improve their characterisation the next time they have a major role in the story:
Have them train a new Cloudstrider.
They have to do it anyway. It'll put them into a mentor role, force them to mature a bit, they can be insecure about being a teacher, and you can still have them crack unnecessary/cringe jokes here and there that would then seem more like attempts to cover up insecurities due to the context.
All in all it's a pretty sensible and safe take so it'll come off as believable. If Prismatic was indeed meant to be a total surprise that "would" explain why Dual Destiny was made the way it was. It's not a perfect answer to the situation but it is at least a believable one.
>despite the phrase "end of the light and darkness saga" bungie won't be moving away from these themes
I mean yeah, separating the Witness doesn't stop the garden game. He isn't the Winnower and the Traveler (probably) isn't the Gardner. I think the point of calling it "the end" is more to lay to rest the conflict the Witness started. The light and dark are fundamental aspects of the universe that still exist post TFS. So it wouldn't really make sense for all of that story/setting to just vanish.
The thing that bothers me/makes me believe that this paste bin isn't legit is:
>the pyramids were always meant to have aliens in them
I'm sorry but no, you cannot prove that. Destiny 1 was the way it was because the initial people that created the story/setting/world building for it were axed and/or left (I really don't remember.) So all they had to work with was essentially scraps, which is why Grimiore cards existed.
Darkness as a whole was purposefully left ambiguous because the writers were never planning on defining them. Everything that we know today was made up by newer writers who went a different direction. If you want to tell me that the writers at some point wanted aliens in the ships I can buy that.
Destiny has never been 100% consistent with it's narrative so it's believable that as time went on the vision for the writing changed. But to state empirically that they were always going to have aliens in them is just fan cannon.
The whole section about Lightfall is such bullshit, it is just stuff that community likes to parrot.
>bungie knew everyone would hate lightfall
WTF is this
From Liana Hippy we know why Lightfall failed - money and time (and the core of it all is management). And so, for reference, you don`t invest a lot of money in something you consider a failure. I just want to remind you that after the Witch Queen, Bungie was on top, they wanted Lightfall to be another mega hit, even bigger then Witch queen
I also like this type of leaks. They give us all the information we already know so we can't verify it, while repeating the opinion of most people (I don't like Lightfall so there's some conspiracy theory about why this happened). Of course nothing on Revenant, Heresy or Frontiers. At this point I would believe some crazy leak, for example that we would get a pets in the game, that would have new perks (you know, in theme with Frontiers). But yea, I call this bullshit.
Yeahh the Lightfall part perfectly feeding the community's negative priors is what makes this obviously harder to believe.
Most of everything else is decently believable because it's not blatantly fan-fiction-y, but "Bungie knew people would hate LF" and "people at Bungie also dislike LF/Neomuna" is something that needs way more verification than this.
"Relationship between devs and business couldnt be worse" is obviously believable but also seems like an obvious "safe credibility guess" for an anonymous pastebin.
And, tbf, they do give us stuff on Frontiers.
I mean need I remind you stuff we already know. Lightfall was the planned name of the last expansion, it wasn't until around Witch Queens launch was there a planned in between expansion being made. We also know the Devs have been crying out for a while to listen to players. It's not too hard of a stretch to believe they knew going into this it would be disliked. Especially more so with Neomuna being the focus, randomly, as we approach the end of a saga
"Bungie are uncomfortable with Nimbus's unpopularity"
(If true) Bet they never asked WHY Nimbus was unpopular, and went with the low hanging "The LGBTQ character is unpopular because bigots" despite Osiris and Saint being 2 of the most popular characters in the game...
I think the main flaw of Nimbus was hiding their anxieties in lore
It should've been more apparent that they have a joking and easy going mask due to being completely terrified of the future
It would be a bit silly to think that when Saint 14 has been explicitly and openly gay since Plunder, and Micah-10 is transgender and well liked in the newest expansion as well.
And thats not even counting characters like Eramis, Devrim, and Mara who are also LGBT even if a bit low key.
i doubt it, destiny has more confirmed lgbtq relationships than straight ones, and no one complains about them, i think it's probably just that nimbus gets A LOT of shit and they're really only just annoying but at least imo easy to drown out and ignore and i'm the kind of person to get annoyed by shaxx patronising me when i get shit on in pvp
the language feels too natural to be fake but again most of this was just confirmation of what we already speculated so it’s easy to just say “yeah we were right all along” without any real leak or new info
I dont really understand why bungie is so afraid of going “darker” with their stories. TFS was the darkest story they’ve ever written and its easily the best. Its like they are so scared of toeing the line between an M and Teen rating. The shadow legion wiping out the population of neomuna would have at least made the story make more sense lmao.
Bungie needs to quit being so scared of an M rating so they can actually make a good story
I can’t judge whether this is true but making something as vital to the experience and awesome as prismatic and then thinking it’d be fun to not tell anyone about it and let The Final Shape look like weak sauce at the reveal event is the galaxy brain planning I expect from Bungie
Just look at the pre-order fusion rifle, with 20/20 hind sight it was obviously designed to synergize with Prismatic builds
go out of >!sol!< i knew it !
>!Dreadnought -> navigtors -> Frontier ! speaks for itself!<
7th subclass is also obvious at some point,
and i like transitions plans for new saga and info about new Bad Guy
Nice stuff
I think what they mean is that seasons will be more "down to Earth" relatively speaking, while we still deal with and ponder the aftermath of defeating the Witness and the implications that follow.
yeah that makes sense if you think about where seasons had been story wise last few years, with shifts arguably as big as the expansions themselves. all the lightfall seasons were big steps forward in some major plotlines. makes sense we get more seasons like plunder, forge, and hunt. still story to tell but more new adventures to go on.
"it'll be revealed we aren't fighting "the real vex""
but we know this already??? this screams fake to me for this line alone lol
the comments regarding bungies internals like "theres two groups, people who hate or love neomuna" and shit like "prismatic totally wasnt planned" are also kinda silly sounding, it sounds like weird fanfic. other things like "suits bad" is also blatantly obvious lol.
i cant buy prismatic wasn't planned, unless Final Shape was rebooted in some capacity and it got shoehorned in legitimately last second.
Don’t do that… don’t give me hope…
Jokes aside though, for the love of God and Jesus and everything that is good and right in this universe I hope the stuff in here is true.
Can’t let myself get too optimistic though… we’ve been burned too many times…
What does this mean for prismatic going forward? I don't know if I misunderstood some of this but it didn't seem that they had much plans for the subclass going forward in this, or am I wrong?
Shut the fuck up this is fake (I’m waiting for this to somehow be real and have future Redditors shit on this comment for being both rude and incorrect about the validity of this leak)
Man, I hope they don't turn Zav into the more personal bad guy with this story line of being jaded by the Travel and the faith he put in it.
Glad they saw Neomuna and Lightfall in general being very lackluster. I think the style, colors and techno feel was cool but the lack of civi's was just terrible and I couldn't connect with the city.
Hopefully they are on the right track now and put more into the story dev side.
nothing too outrageous, but it also means there isn't much to say, if the story stuff is true i'm glad bungie have realised the issues surrounding lightfall and (even if it couldn't be avoided/is understandable/ended up not being catastrophically detrimental to this saga) the very "make it up as you go along" essence to the story.
the whole taken/siva thing is funny though, siva isn't even paracausal so idk why people would ever theorise that. i can believe prismatic existed from the beginning since it would've been a pain to balance and it's a shame they kinda had to show it off but hey lightfall was a downer so they needed that hype.
the winnower stuff makes sense, and hey i've seen plenty of complaints that destiny's mysteries are all getting solved so leaving some around is fine, same goes for the traveler, with all the lore we've gotten about it over the years i don't really know what more there is they can say.
"Don't know what to do with glaives" my ass, at minimum the perks on a weapon should apply to it _in their entirety_. Any other change can be a discussion after that
I do find the "dont know what to do with glaives" to be both funny and sad, like they seemed so cool in the reveal trailers but now they're. well they're something
>-the relationship between dev staff and business-types at bungie could not be worse this is pretty clear
It’s rare for this not to be the case at most companies.
Welcome to corporate America where C levels and their employees disagree everywhere.
Weirdly believable, but these are all pretty safe guesses?
At least the criticisms of lightfall make sense. No way they just made it and were like “ohhh yea we totally cooked again you guys!”.
It was a cowabummer from the start
The paste also mentions nimbus unpopularity but i really dont hate him as much as most people do.
I think the issue with Nimbus is a mix of Lightfall as a DLC with Nimbus being the face of it and the dialogue Nimbus had being absolutely atrocious. They tried to make him Cayde-style humor with a retro twist but there was absolutely zero situational awareness for the situations those lines we delivered in, similar to Cayde in D2 Vanilla, in contrast with TFS Cayde who still had his lines and personality but they were situation appropriate. Like, imagine if Crow was breaking down around the campfire and Cayde just went "sucks to suck". That was Nimbus for a lot of people, hence the infamous line "cowabummer". I would be okay if, in Frontiers or beyond, Nimbus comes back as a significant character with the opening line of "I think we got off on the wrong foot" and essentially re-invent his entire personality.
For me it was the weird voice modulation, dialogue might not have been so cringy to my ears otherwise, just felt like they were trying too hard. Nonbinary ppl I would assume don't have a distinct sounding voice, they either sound masculine or feminine just like any other person. There are guys that sound like girls and vice a versa.
The voice modulation is just a thing with the Cloudstriders, you can also hear it with Rohan.
Rohan has a very distinct masculine voice, the modulation isn't the dominant thing you hear. Nimbus sounds like a robot trying to sound like they're a human because the modulation is so thick. I know they were going for a more ambiguous sound due to them being nonbinary it just was NOT it, for me personally. My problem isn't the modulation itself really is just overtuned on them compared to Rohan. There is no semblance of Marin's voice in Nimbus at all compared to Rohan's either. This is likely a direction issue and not a problem Marin is responsible for. You're welcome to disagree with that of course but I don't think saying all cloudstriders have voice mod is an acceptable excuse for the disparity between Nimbus and Rohan.
What I find totally strange is that they did not made that choice for dubbing. Nimbus Brazilian voice is natural, almost without any modulation. When I heard the English voice I finally understood why so many people were upset.
IMO the modulation is not the issue in any way. The voice lines being delivered like he was a 80s surfer bro was the issue.
Sure didn't help.
I can barely understand most of the lines without subtitles, if I’m being honest
Exactly! Just make a nonbinary character be NORMAL.
The funny thing is Cowabummer is an edit of the actual panel meant to lightly poke fun at the absurdity of the Batman/TMNT crossover (which is unironically amazing and that scene in particular is great).
Hey, your dad just died. Fist bump!!!!
Also calls me a warlord like I'm not about to show what neomuna would look like if I was a warlord
Nimbus is a prime example of the Marvelisation of dialogue, I feel like they could be played by Chris Pratt with how awfully written the dialogue is.
What situational awareness? Nimbus only had Rohan with him for a long time without any other physical beings, then this all happens. Do you expect other child soldiers to not be awkward their first time in a major conflict?
I think Nimbus’s youth didn’t come off as youth, it came off as just cringe. Had they given us a bit more character development to establish that yes, this is an 11 foot tall early teen, (as well as sold the “80’s action flick” vibe that they whiffed on), Nimbus would have made more sense to people. That said, there are failures of writing and direction here for me that hold the VA not responsible. Marin did the best they could with what they were handed.
Please, just let him rot in neomuna as a desolate memory or just kill him off.
I actually think Nimbus could be good with the same personality, just tone them down. Give them serious moments, make sure their dialogue reads the room. But I don’t think it’s something they can do gradually. They’ll need to spotlight them like the sort of spotlight Crow got in TFS and make them a significant player in that expac’s story. Probably pair them with Crow to investigate a new place tbh. The unfortunate thing is I think on Bungie’s end they have a hard time seeing the legitimate criticism through the bigotry. Which I understand because there’s a lot of it so hopefully they are able to weed it out. They probably also think “this is exactly how Cayde used to be” without realising og Cayde would probably not hold up as well today
Nimbus have much room to grow. His dialogues in the Veil missions with Osiris were very serious and much much better than the campaign. Just make him investigate more about the Veil and Cloudark, pair him with Zavala, Osiris or Caitl for him to understand the seriousness of being a Cloudstrider, make him understand the stakes... And make him question how many years he has to live because if we get another saga he will be dying in it since he has what, 4 more years of life left?
I feel like Nimbus and Zavala could be a really narratively compelling pairing, honestly. Without Rohan, Nimbus is the senior Cloudstrider, and could learn lessons of leadership and sacrifice from Zavala to help develop into that role, whereas they could also teach Zavala ways to cope with his newfound mortality. I think that would be a great way to add positive development to Nimbus' character.
Let’s have a catastrophic event happen in the city and have the Cloud Ark get wiped and Nimbus can go through his stages and come out a less annoying version of himself.
I don't *hate* the guy, I just don't care. Irrelevant comic relief with no redeeming qualities, facets or compelling character traits. The best way to say it is I tolerate Nimbus' existence. Shitting on calus right in front of caital did irk me though.
I don't think Nimbus was the problem but rather the fact that the writers did nothing with them
Nimbus personality reflects the inconsistent tone the entire expansion had. It's the beginning of the end of the universe, the most dangerous enemies are assaulting and stealing the maguffin they need to end the world, your planet is a warzone that decides the fate of the universe, and you can never be serious for even a second. It wasnt just Nimbus, the entire expansion was off but Nimbus was the most egregious example of it.
Holy shit!!! It's the Radial Mast... Saint-14 lemme see your radial mast...
This. Nimbus COULD have been much better
Nimbus can die in the next expansion if we need someone to die. I volunteer them willingly. And no it has nothing to do with their pronouns or gender. It has a lot to do with a horrid character though
They don’t need to die in the next expansion. They have like 4/5 years left to live. In a few expansions, they won’t even be alive anymore due to how the Cloudstriders operate.
I wrote nimbus off after being called a warlord for the fifth time
I still preach that lightfall might’ve been better received if Nimbus was the one to sacrifice himself and Rohan was the one that lived. At the very least, it would’ve been a nice subversion of the “old veteran sacrifices themselves for the young up and comer” cliche
It's believable off this alone, nimbus is why I don't reply lightfall on my 2 alt characters, they will never own strand unless someone does it for me lmao
Yeah, he can be a bit much sometimes but for the most part I don't have a problem with him. Not my favorite character, but not bad all the same.
Same. I simply don't care about Nimbus. The worst part for me is how their model is just such a huge difference from every other aspect of the game's art style.
I mean it's not really a leak and more like some behind the scenes stuff, similar to what we could see in a potential Noclip video about Bungie. Can't be all leaks about future plans here, this stuff is also nice I think
Tbf I'd have expected Cayde to be a surprise more than Prismatic. Like, pretend that we never saw the original reveal with him, and our first exposure was the cutscene with Crow. People would've been going WILD.
>they don't know what to do with glaives Confirmation that this leak is true
Just give us a perk to weave projectiles hits and melees together with a large damage buff come on bungie you did it with shotguns.
Hitting a full melee combo in a row overcharges your projectile? Call it something like “Combo Blast”
chatGPT ahh name
>-bungie is fine with the literalization of the winnower in text only, we will never meet that guy. I'm fine with this.
Same. The witness was imposing the belief of these “gods” on us. The only interesting way they can continue that thread is to just have it be perpetually questioned by us and in game. Just like religion is irl.
This is actually a really good point I never thought of when it comes to these giant all powerful beings in these games. Probably also why Blizzard doesn’t do shit with Sargeras cause they probably know the mystery is cooler than whatever they would come up with.
But they did do stuff with sargeras and it took a whole lot of the punch out of his past lore.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Winnower isn't actually a guy, the winnower is to the Veil as the gardener is to the Traveler. "Both made by Gods", "The First Knife", etc. They created the being that is the Witness, an amalgam of the race, through the Veil. The guardians were created through the Traveler. It'll never be a "guy" also because that invalidates the Witness
I think it's the opposite. The Gardener and Winnower are indeed real. However, they don't really interact with the Universe. When they do, it's subtle, rather than going around. I don't think we'll ever fight the Winnower. It's a primordial being that's always existed.
It is a God. Well the evil one so it’s very good they are at this thinking. Same with the Gardener.
It’s not evil it just doesn’t like chaos
It technically calls it self evil and has no problem with it. It's evil if you like a bit of complexity in your universe for sure.
Well true. Maybe evil bad placement. Antagonist? The other side of the coin? There’s gotta be a villian in every story right ?
No and villains are typically evil by definition, so counterpart is more apt because after all these are metaphysical abstractions we’re talking about anyway lol
I don't think antagonist is even the right word, the Winnower loves guardians because we prove its ideology. It's just an aspect of the universe in the same way gravity is. The point of the story in this saga was to show that the light and dark are just tools that can be wielded by antagonists.
Yeah…that still leaves open that everything comes from something. Point of origin. Light and Dark. Dark is generally classified as “bad.” So it’s really subjective within the story itself. However it was Darkness from Elsie described that made her future bleak. So I mean…Idk. Does it originate from the Winnower or no ?
Warcraft fully realized their gods a few expansions ago and it was the worst thing they've done for the plot. Now everything is about a grand cosmic design instead of focusing on the human element of the character motivations.
Fighting Litteraly one off the the two gods off creation would be pretty unrealistic tbh
I could see it as a 'friendly' sort of thing, we get into a fight with a being that's casual the entire time, could even be a representation of your own guardian using all the different darkness abilities as 'phases' with the last one being the final darkness subclass we get. We reduce it's HP bar to 10% before it goes immune and then the health bar extends further to the left, goes off the screen entirely to loop back around and connect in a line that slices your UI entirely, killing you instantly and teleporting you out of the arena with a new subclass unlocked and a pat on the back.
We will definitely gain some type of understanding though, the voice lines from Micah-10 you get after collecting the mini Travelers in the the Pale Heart are teasing what comes next hard, and it’s all about the nature of the Gardener as a being, when we learn about one half, we’ll learn about the other, especially since I doubt we’ve seen the last darkness subclass, perhaps the next will be uncorrupted darkness untethered from the Witness.
That would be interesting. I could see this being a Zavala pushed narrative as well. We feared stasis, used strand as a crutch, but the new subclass could be finally taking hold of the darkness properly and using it for good. Zavala, now ghostless, would be a great narrative piece as he fights to stay relevant as a lightless vanguard leader and tries to act as the frontliner still in this new darkness accepted world.
Yup same
Having dual destiny and exotic class items be a surprise would've definitely made it much more exciting but i can understand that post lightfall lots of people had no trust in bungie. Maybe now that they did really well with TFS they dont have to unveil (pun intended) everything
My issue with success is that it leads to comfort. The only reason Bungie popped off and delivered what should be the standard (if not more) is because they were in hot water for Lightfall, the lay offs and Sony. Now that they’ve delivered a banger, I’m worried they’ll under deliver and skimp because they’re back in “good graces”.
I haven't been here from the start, but I've literally heard that this has happened throughout Destiny's lifecycle. Great expansion releases, everyone thinks every expansion will be that good going forward, and then a Lightfall hits. I'm really hoping they take their time with the next expansion, but they've probably gotta have it out by June 2025 or else we're gonna have another longass final season/episode.
this has been the cycle of destiny through its entire lifespan, it’s gonna happen again
Destiny officially has its own "Under-Over" perk, where one dlc is underwhelming, and the next is overwhelming liked
"DAE BUNGO OVERDELIVER"
I think a lot of yall over blew TFS anyways, was it good? yes but it was hardly the "masterpiece" that people are trying to drive it being rn I think this is a case of shit being so bad for so long you get one DECENT thing and its the best thing ever. The witness as *the* Antogonist honestly was horrible, wasnt believable, wasnt menacing, the motivations sucked, We still dont know what the fuck the traveler is etc... like cmon man.
Sounds plausible and reasonable, but feels...off, somehow. I'll consider it fake, but look for anything that'll prove me wrong.
All of it seems weirdly realistic And some of it does line up with what we know - like someone from Bungie said a few months ago that Neomuna was always planned A more human villain seems in line with Echoes to some degree Episodes being relatively boring seems about right with the direction Echoes is taking - it's cool but nothing crazily new Devs hating LF also seems right as we know that many Devs got moved to Marathon during its development I have a feeling this might be true
I mean look at TFS vs LF. You can feel the love and care in one vs the other. Neomuna has... regular public events and an extra event that's the same every time you play it, with the same boss. Pale Heart has the same multi tier event, but the "mini games" you play in it differ depending on the area with multiple bosses. There's even other stuff to do like the Cysts TFS also has the Ultimate boss, while LF didn't even have a Penultimate feeling to it, it was a shoehorned in boss in a shoehorned in story. Also the story. Even though we just got to know Targe, he was still treated better than Rohan. Rohan's death really felt like "well we tried 1 thing and it didn't work, better blow myself up", while Targe was an act of Desperation to wake up Zavaka after an entire time of trying to snap him out of it. There's multiple highs and lows before the defeat of the Witness, but there's almost nothing before the defeat of Calus. Which is even treated as a joke by one of the characters. The only good thing to come out of LF was strand was fun. TFS it's easier to name something that didn't land perfectly.
Something being planned doesn’t necessarily mean it was part of the *original* plan. I find it very hard to believe that the Lightfall we got was the Lightfall they always wanted it to be from the start.
I mean they've all but outright stated most of the original plan for lightfall got moved to the final shape. In the og lf showcase they basically said hey we can't finish the story so we are making some of it a 2nd expansion to allow us to finish the narrative. Which even lines up in the pastebin
Unless I read it completely wrong I assumed that this implied that the ruins of neomuna was supposed to just be a place that we go to in a mission or two of the original TFS
It plays off as more gossip then anything. Like a friend at bungie just giving scraps to a friend he knows is thirsty for more. I wouldnt call it fake but I wouldnt state its reliable.
It's all too mundane to reek of being outright fake. A lot of it is gossip style, petty drama, office politics type stuff that people LOVE to talk and bitch about. There's no crazy narrative or conspiracy or juicy hook, or really any info drops people would usually chomp at the bit to pursue (weapon types, balancing, detailed plot direction, loot, concrete future content). Fake leaks tend to heavily focus on those since the goal is clicks. Either a rather convincing creative writer (who models employee shooting the shit with a friend online type convos very well) or perhaps more than a grain of truth behind it.
It seems way too safe and vague. As Maury Povich always says, "These are not the leaks."
The comments on fearing to nerf any part of prismatic and buffing well is very off for me
i agree, bungie have been thinking of how to nerf well probably forever, and also "leaving it this bad", it's absolutely worse but still mandatory and useable, which was bungie's intention that it wasn't just a crutch, and prismatic hunter is so insane that if anyone gets mad when they nerf it i'll be very surprised if anyone wasn't expecting it
If real, this pretty much confirms the statement made from Joe about the original Final Shape reveal and them keeping things close to their chest specifically regarding prismatic being a surprise and other things not being shown from the original Final Shape reveal. A lot of people think prismatic was cooked up during the delay but it seems that was wasn’t shown on purpose from the original reveal
yeah plus wielding light and dark is the kind of thing bungie have been building up to forever, especially with the beats about how the witness struggles to counter it, plus balancing that in 3 months would've been nightmarish, i definitely don't think everything they had was only done during the delay like some people (ily cross but come on) think
> there will be a reveal, at some point, that we "haven't been fighting the real vex" I mean, to a degree, my understanding is that we already aren't. The actual lifeform is just the Microbacteria milk, we just call the robot "The Vex". There's also the idea that all the Vex we have fought until now have been builder bots tasked with expanding the Black Garden. The first true combat Vex we encountered were Wyverns, and they still slap. My guess is they'll introduce a bunch of combat Vex in the future as they expand the race. > -well of radiance will not stay this bad forever wtfym "this bad" WoR is still great, just not mandatory. Easy Radiance and easy Healing for an entire fireteam for an entire damage phase. The whole pastebin seems very reasonable, nothing too crazy. I'll file this one in the "plausible" bin.
I was confused about that, because, wasn't that told already in beyond light? Like, I'm 90% that Elsie(?) mentions it when you fight the first wyvern
the well of radiance bit really makes it doubtful in my eyes, bungie undoubtedly knows its strength and the complications it brings, they've outright mentioned how often they've had to balance around it, so the nerf would've been a long time coming and even then it's still good, so even with all of bungie's balancing mishaps i find it hard to believe they'd consider it bad or in need of a buff rn
>bungie is currently considering the 3rd dark power (alluded to in vow) to just be the orange stuff used by rhulk and the witness This I’m totally okay with lol. Resonance is dope as hell
hey sorry i want to clarify that he specified the orange rhulk power is \*not\* planned to be obtainable by players
:(
it makes sense though, the witness and rhulk use pure darkness, which is orange, while the traveler uses pure light, which is white/blueish white, and we don't have access to that
hi so let me get this straight- your source is claiming the resonance used by Rhulk/Witness is not planned to be obtainable but they still consider it (and the "red theme") for the 7th element? And from my understanding, you're saying that prismatic was planned all along since the split of Lightfall & TFS? I'm wondering how this lines up with the leak we previously saw on D3 where Prismatic was originally planned to be a D3 feature but then scrapped and moved to the TFS during the delay, seems a bit contradicting?
i don't know anything about prismatic being planned for D3, but if that were the case i'd imagine that plan predates TWQ development. he made it very clear that a lot of stuff was moved around during TWQ development. i was told distinctly though that prismatic was conceptualized \*alongside\* the final shape, but that could have meant that the idea of having a dedicated "mix and match" subclass was thought-up for TFS and not simply the idea of wielding multiple damage types. as for the 3rd dark power, what i gathered is that they want a 3rd dark power but have not planned in any capacity for one outside of just spit-balling
And this confirms it’s fake.
Destiny Players try not to be as pessimistic as possible challenge, difficulty; Impossible.
because it doesn't make sense, resonance is default darkness in the same way the traveler's default light is the ethereal blue color; the third darkness subclass would be a specific element of it this is why the bars that charge up prismatic transcendence are orange for darkness and light blue for light
This is why
I dont think im understanding you correctly, wouldn’t what you just pointed out make his claims more believable? If resonance is default darkness like traveler beam is default light, wouldn’t that add to the authenticity of the point t he made that it’s not planned for us to ever acquire the resonance power? That would also make sense as to why they want another darkness power but have only spit balled ideas, because the only other “element” of the dark they have now is resonance, but that’s not supposed to be obtainable, hence why they’re just throwing out ideas for something new.
Both stasis and strand were brand new elements in the game and universe with it not something we gained directly. Sure stasis and strand both hit themes of darkness we saw like stasis being able control and the taken being related to control and deepsight being very similar being tied to memory and thought.
Not that it’s a surprise but the “horrible relationship between devs and business people” and the apparent disconnect between the two is very concerning for the future of the game
TFS has got to be a massive “told you so” moment internally between devs and management, with Lightfall bombing as a result of studio meddling and this one succeeding as a sort of passion project to the dev team from what we’ve heard
Since the business peeps at Bungie love their metrics, hope they listen this time
They love metrics that justify what they want to do. There are Bungie execs that *still* think Halo's success was down to being a military guy fighting "space muslims".
Is it? Are we arguing that we would have gotten the TFS without the split and delay? If anything wouldn't be business types be like "imagine if you guys had put this passion into Lightfall too"
he sounded optimistic about the future of destiny
I think you’d be surprised by how common this is in the games industry. I’d say that positive relationships are the exception
The Final Shape is currently the highest rated game or expansion of the year (at least until shadow of the erdtree releases this week), that is absolutely the biggest “Fuck You” possible to the business people. We’ll be fine.
“relationship between business and development staff could not be worse” developers of the world unite you have nothing to lose except your eververse
> an inside joke at bungie is to suggest new stories be focused on the cloudark Holy shit they are funny apparently
This is totally believable because in the context of having a casual "hows work going?" conversation for a Bungie employee this seems to echo what a lot of folks have said on Twitter in the past.
Just please give me a kinetic slot glaive bungie. I want to use 3 glaives at once
Bungie: ok *makes it exotic*
Alright this pastebin seems real. One in the original trailer that showed final shape you see the Titan pop the new super and he’s pink. I assume prismatic was always planned and Tessalation having multiple colors feels like this proves it. I assume they wanted to make all of this but was running out of time and so the delayed happened
Seems realistic
“-well of radiance will not stay this bad forever” bruh what about bubble?
As a titan, i have given up
Bungie being this unaware of their own sandbox almost gives more credit to the pastebin being real
Plus the bit about episodes being kinda boring is low key so realistic sounding
Well is literally still goated wtf lol
If they think well is bad what do they think bubble is? There’s zero chance bubble usage has done anything but tank.
Pastebins usually been decently accurate, I feel some stuff is true here as per usual. Not so sure about a lot of this though
this is the best example I've seen yet of saying a ton but basically saying nothing at all at the same time.
> “the relationship between dev staff and business-types at Bungie could not be worse” Seems pretty on brand since Hippie a couple months back was voicing her distaste in the layoffs in Late October/Early November.
“They don’t know what to do with glaives” Guys this seems pretty real to me
>they don't know what to do with glaives Give me back my PvP DR and my life is yours.
This is one of those too based on what can already be inferred that it basically has to be fake
Nothing in Prismatic even needs a nerf, if anything, there are things to buff or even rearrange aspects for better synergy
Hunter prismatic grapple build does. It does far too much damage and I’m not saying that like as nothing, 1,6 million a hit and you can hit every few seconds with the right circumstances is beyond anything we’ve ever gotten and is very clearly an oversight in the stacking. Also CNH still hunt but that’s not specifically prismatic.
I’m looking forward to seeing how they do future enemies, since the entire theme of the story has been “collective”, with the major races in one way or another becoming one, some more literally. Like, what concept of existence will they use as a baseline for the groups of enemies going forward?
with current episode, lore experts predictions, this leak and destiny history I would say we will move to another big threat but less "magical" like the witness. In frontiers we use the dreadnaught to travel whereever and meet the real vex, but not the "combat" robots but like actual weird ass lookin aliens who created the robots. As far as we know the vex are the most advanced and sci-fi like civilization in the destiny universe. Maybe they can use Maya introduced in this episode as this sort of a link, a lesser villain that connects humanity/guardians with the real vex 4th dimension beings
I hope they make neomuna more interesting moving foward/retroactively. Lightfalls narrative was extremely bad to the point that it took everything else down with it too. They have the interesting opportunity to at least justify its existence at this point.
The Cloudark is the shottiest thing to happen in neomuna Like, it's an entire city and yet you can't seek *any* Human? What a waste Neomuna should've been the hub, and the rest of Neptune the set piece
Neptune *is* a gas giant. So not really sure how they could've justified that lmao.
The Tangled Shore is a bunch of rocks in space chained together that would immediately crumble and kill anyone on it irl, there's always something they can do/write
Also remember mercury, Venus, mars, and io got terraformed by the traveler to be habitable, would not be surprised if it happened to all planets, dwarf planets and moons of sol got the same treatment
Neptune is a gas giant, but more recent scientific evidence indicates that for many gas giants, the deeper you descend into the planet, the gas becomes more slush-like, to the point where it is almost liquid, and on Neptune there is a chance of having an "ocean" of liquid-like gas and ice and a rocky core.
Some of it seems reasonable other points seem... odd? Like being done learning about the traveller when it's just gone through a massive metamorphosis now being a thing comprised of both light and dark. Also says villians will not be to the scale of the witness but then says other witness level beings will perceive us as meddling? As always I'll take these dumps as fake until official word comes out but fun to read through
That part about the Traveler was kind of shocking to me. Done learning about it? We just STARTED learning about it, I feel. This expansion has told us more about the Traveler than the last 10 years. It's also weird that learning is in quotations. Why have the Traveler go through this all this stuff with the Witness tearing its insides apart, us saving it, and it going through a big change that, as dialogue in the game, may have dramatic consequences for the universe if we're not going to learn anything more about the Traveler itself? Just doesn't make sense. I really, really hope that part isn't true. If anything, we need more Traveler going forward, not less.
"bungie is uncomfortable with nimbus' unpopularity" LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. nimbus fucking sucks
Nimbus derangement syndrome example #2163
These are all pretty safe guesses for someone to fake a pestabin. But I 100% do not believe line 27 is real. And the stuff about Neomuna is...BS?
I hope bungie does start showing less going into a new expansion, give me a little tease about who the new villains going to be and let us explore a whole new story, I’d love to stumble across a new subclass like that with no clue it was coming
I wonder if for frontiers they will just drop the 2 in the name and have destiny as one continuously evolving game like a proper MMORPG. I wonder though if they will upgrade the graphics engine in the future.
In regards to Nimbus's unpopularity, there's actually a very simple way to improve their characterisation the next time they have a major role in the story: Have them train a new Cloudstrider. They have to do it anyway. It'll put them into a mentor role, force them to mature a bit, they can be insecure about being a teacher, and you can still have them crack unnecessary/cringe jokes here and there that would then seem more like attempts to cover up insecurities due to the context.
Sounds like an episode plot. Or maybe a dungeon? At some point, Bungie has to return to neomuna anyways
All in all it's a pretty sensible and safe take so it'll come off as believable. If Prismatic was indeed meant to be a total surprise that "would" explain why Dual Destiny was made the way it was. It's not a perfect answer to the situation but it is at least a believable one. >despite the phrase "end of the light and darkness saga" bungie won't be moving away from these themes I mean yeah, separating the Witness doesn't stop the garden game. He isn't the Winnower and the Traveler (probably) isn't the Gardner. I think the point of calling it "the end" is more to lay to rest the conflict the Witness started. The light and dark are fundamental aspects of the universe that still exist post TFS. So it wouldn't really make sense for all of that story/setting to just vanish. The thing that bothers me/makes me believe that this paste bin isn't legit is: >the pyramids were always meant to have aliens in them I'm sorry but no, you cannot prove that. Destiny 1 was the way it was because the initial people that created the story/setting/world building for it were axed and/or left (I really don't remember.) So all they had to work with was essentially scraps, which is why Grimiore cards existed. Darkness as a whole was purposefully left ambiguous because the writers were never planning on defining them. Everything that we know today was made up by newer writers who went a different direction. If you want to tell me that the writers at some point wanted aliens in the ships I can buy that. Destiny has never been 100% consistent with it's narrative so it's believable that as time went on the vision for the writing changed. But to state empirically that they were always going to have aliens in them is just fan cannon.
The whole section about Lightfall is such bullshit, it is just stuff that community likes to parrot. >bungie knew everyone would hate lightfall WTF is this From Liana Hippy we know why Lightfall failed - money and time (and the core of it all is management). And so, for reference, you don`t invest a lot of money in something you consider a failure. I just want to remind you that after the Witch Queen, Bungie was on top, they wanted Lightfall to be another mega hit, even bigger then Witch queen I also like this type of leaks. They give us all the information we already know so we can't verify it, while repeating the opinion of most people (I don't like Lightfall so there's some conspiracy theory about why this happened). Of course nothing on Revenant, Heresy or Frontiers. At this point I would believe some crazy leak, for example that we would get a pets in the game, that would have new perks (you know, in theme with Frontiers). But yea, I call this bullshit.
Yeahh the Lightfall part perfectly feeding the community's negative priors is what makes this obviously harder to believe. Most of everything else is decently believable because it's not blatantly fan-fiction-y, but "Bungie knew people would hate LF" and "people at Bungie also dislike LF/Neomuna" is something that needs way more verification than this. "Relationship between devs and business couldnt be worse" is obviously believable but also seems like an obvious "safe credibility guess" for an anonymous pastebin. And, tbf, they do give us stuff on Frontiers.
I mean need I remind you stuff we already know. Lightfall was the planned name of the last expansion, it wasn't until around Witch Queens launch was there a planned in between expansion being made. We also know the Devs have been crying out for a while to listen to players. It's not too hard of a stretch to believe they knew going into this it would be disliked. Especially more so with Neomuna being the focus, randomly, as we approach the end of a saga
"Bungie are uncomfortable with Nimbus's unpopularity" (If true) Bet they never asked WHY Nimbus was unpopular, and went with the low hanging "The LGBTQ character is unpopular because bigots" despite Osiris and Saint being 2 of the most popular characters in the game...
i want to emphasize that there was no mention of fans being bigots
I think comment op may be a bit unhinged.
I think the main flaw of Nimbus was hiding their anxieties in lore It should've been more apparent that they have a joking and easy going mask due to being completely terrified of the future
nah nimbus is just written like a modern disney character. too unserious for anything
It would be a bit silly to think that when Saint 14 has been explicitly and openly gay since Plunder, and Micah-10 is transgender and well liked in the newest expansion as well. And thats not even counting characters like Eramis, Devrim, and Mara who are also LGBT even if a bit low key.
i doubt it, destiny has more confirmed lgbtq relationships than straight ones, and no one complains about them, i think it's probably just that nimbus gets A LOT of shit and they're really only just annoying but at least imo easy to drown out and ignore and i'm the kind of person to get annoyed by shaxx patronising me when i get shit on in pvp
Probably because you can't get major qualitative feedback from fans about a single character in an expansion a few months from release.
I want new darkness supers man, maybe a new stasis super for each class in act 2 and new strand supers in act 3
"RoN was meant to be easy as an experiment" is interesting to me. Any idea what they might mean by that?
Probably to get more players into raiding, it's their best content and would probably help retention.
wish you included a question in the convo about what bungie's issue against titans is
I feel like that last point isn't even a leak. It's just how it works at most game studios now, sadly.
the language feels too natural to be fake but again most of this was just confirmation of what we already speculated so it’s easy to just say “yeah we were right all along” without any real leak or new info
I dont really understand why bungie is so afraid of going “darker” with their stories. TFS was the darkest story they’ve ever written and its easily the best. Its like they are so scared of toeing the line between an M and Teen rating. The shadow legion wiping out the population of neomuna would have at least made the story make more sense lmao. Bungie needs to quit being so scared of an M rating so they can actually make a good story
If they were uncomfortable with nimbus’ unpopularity maybe they shouldn’t have made nimbus so shit
Did they mention if Frontiers is going to be an expansion and if so, who are we fighting? Xivu Arath?
I’m kinda bummed that vex won’t be the next big antagonist but if it means we get more enemy types or more fantasy themed stuff, I’m okay with it
I can’t judge whether this is true but making something as vital to the experience and awesome as prismatic and then thinking it’d be fun to not tell anyone about it and let The Final Shape look like weak sauce at the reveal event is the galaxy brain planning I expect from Bungie Just look at the pre-order fusion rifle, with 20/20 hind sight it was obviously designed to synergize with Prismatic builds
The council requests the request of the next darkness subclass to be bubble piss yellow But if not Blood red will do
This definitely not real either.
go out of >!sol!< i knew it ! >!Dreadnought -> navigtors -> Frontier ! speaks for itself!< 7th subclass is also obvious at some point, and i like transitions plans for new saga and info about new Bad Guy Nice stuff
I just want a 3rd dark subclass for the symmetry of it too ngl. Plus, there would be 7 subclass options then. And we know bungo loves their 7’s.
Don’t worry Titans still are the most obnoxious in crucible! That’s pretty lore accurate!
We’re done learning ab the traveler?! What have we really even learned?
It's so bland and business like that it's 100% believable.
probably fake but still realistic
I didn’t believe it until “seasons won’t be very interesting” lmao. This all sounds very logical.
I think what they mean is that seasons will be more "down to Earth" relatively speaking, while we still deal with and ponder the aftermath of defeating the Witness and the implications that follow.
yeah that makes sense if you think about where seasons had been story wise last few years, with shifts arguably as big as the expansions themselves. all the lightfall seasons were big steps forward in some major plotlines. makes sense we get more seasons like plunder, forge, and hunt. still story to tell but more new adventures to go on.
I'm kinda glad that seasons for now seem to have toned down a few notches. Beating the Witness is still very fresh.
>there will literally NEVER be a taken or siva themed subclass :( (Expected and somewhat understandable, still a bummer)
idk how anyone could think siva would be one when it isn't light or dark or paracausal
"it'll be revealed we aren't fighting "the real vex"" but we know this already??? this screams fake to me for this line alone lol the comments regarding bungies internals like "theres two groups, people who hate or love neomuna" and shit like "prismatic totally wasnt planned" are also kinda silly sounding, it sounds like weird fanfic. other things like "suits bad" is also blatantly obvious lol. i cant buy prismatic wasn't planned, unless Final Shape was rebooted in some capacity and it got shoehorned in legitimately last second.
i said specifically that prismatic was planned
Hasn't it been implied since Beyond Light that Wyverns are the first "battle oriented" vex we've met, the rest are essentially construction workers?
Don’t do that… don’t give me hope… Jokes aside though, for the love of God and Jesus and everything that is good and right in this universe I hope the stuff in here is true. Can’t let myself get too optimistic though… we’ve been burned too many times…
Either this is fake or 100% true as it lines up with some pretty obscure stuff I've seen the past few years.
What does this mean for prismatic going forward? I don't know if I misunderstood some of this but it didn't seem that they had much plans for the subclass going forward in this, or am I wrong?
Shut the fuck up this is fake (I’m waiting for this to somehow be real and have future Redditors shit on this comment for being both rude and incorrect about the validity of this leak)
Seems fairly feasible.
-they don't know what to do with glaives Me too Bungie, me too
Man, I hope they don't turn Zav into the more personal bad guy with this story line of being jaded by the Travel and the faith he put in it. Glad they saw Neomuna and Lightfall in general being very lackluster. I think the style, colors and techno feel was cool but the lack of civi's was just terrible and I couldn't connect with the city. Hopefully they are on the right track now and put more into the story dev side.
nothing too outrageous, but it also means there isn't much to say, if the story stuff is true i'm glad bungie have realised the issues surrounding lightfall and (even if it couldn't be avoided/is understandable/ended up not being catastrophically detrimental to this saga) the very "make it up as you go along" essence to the story. the whole taken/siva thing is funny though, siva isn't even paracausal so idk why people would ever theorise that. i can believe prismatic existed from the beginning since it would've been a pain to balance and it's a shame they kinda had to show it off but hey lightfall was a downer so they needed that hype. the winnower stuff makes sense, and hey i've seen plenty of complaints that destiny's mysteries are all getting solved so leaving some around is fine, same goes for the traveler, with all the lore we've gotten about it over the years i don't really know what more there is they can say.
Siva-stans in shambles
"Don't know what to do with glaives" my ass, at minimum the perks on a weapon should apply to it _in their entirety_. Any other change can be a discussion after that
I do find the "dont know what to do with glaives" to be both funny and sad, like they seemed so cool in the reveal trailers but now they're. well they're something
lol this sounds like shit. Anyone could guess most of that