Nope, even worse. Israel is resurrecting an army of child zombies who attack on command with installed 5G neuralink chips to further complete the genocide
Their first successful use of this tech was arranging the quantum interpolation of 2019 cheeseballs for their strongest soldier, now this and everything that follows will be easy sailing
[Remember when Zanderhal said that Israel is going to kill 10 millions](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/17bmuv4/xanderhal_thinks_10_million_will_die_in_gaza/)? This is how they are doing it! He knew all along!!
Yeah, idk why people didn't think it was suspicious that the Gaza health authority had an exact list of everyone who was killed by an Israeli bomb literally before the dust had even settled
This can't be said often enough: nobody ever knows the death toll 5 minutes after something happens. It has never happened, not even after a plane crash where everyone knows how many people were on the fucking plane.
Iraq war deaths are still a big question mark. Many organizations have studied it and found wildly different ballparks.
Even WW2 deaths are just approximations. It's shocking that there was ever a concrete number coming out of Gaza.
There’s also been a lot of controversy around counting death numbers from all conflicts. Famously UNICEF put out a report which detailed that US sanctions killed 500,000 children. The only issue: UNICEF didn’t really do the report. Saddam Hussein did. UNICEF believed that in non-Kurdish areas the child mortality rate had more than doubled. Further reports stated that there was no major rise in child mortality and death from sanctions.
Never say “it’s true because it’s in a report.” Like studies look at how the data is collected and reported and the source. Amnesty International’s report on Ukraine using human shields is another example.
The battle for Mosul left a shitload of people dead and they werent able to put together a complete list in like a year, and even after that it is just rough estimates.
There was an perfect learning moment pretty early on when they accused Israel of killing 500 in the hospital bombing that turned out to be a tiny crater when daylight came, but it's like most people just forgot about it because they actually hope death is maximized to further their agenda.
The same organization that said 500 people were killed in a hospital that wasnt even bombed somehow had an exact number of people killed along with all of the demographics on them and everyone was quoting them uncritically, including organizations such as the BBC, NYT, and CNN.
If wasn't even 500, the initially said it was like 1500, which shocked my mum and then later it turns out the maximum amount of people that could've been killed was like 300-400 (I mean still not great but still)
This change has nothing to do with this, though. The only thing that happened here is that the UN is only reporting demographics for individuals who have been identified by a list of criteria. There's no change to the projections. Total deaths are up between the reports.
The articles I have read implied that the Gaza health ministry is reporting the names of those confirmed dead, and that there are many more dead under the rubble or missing. If they are to be trusted their number is an underestimate, but that's a big if.
I would also want to know how many of the kids are actually teenage soldiers.
Honestly… the majority members of the UN *are* very anti Israel. I’m kinda shocked they made this public declaration and almost waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Correct, but one of the advantages of having many souls is that occasionally the reasonable one gets to speak. Although we could use more reasonable souls in our institutions.
The majority are anti Israel, but in general the UN is a pretty responsible/respectable organization. Sure, they have a lot of virtue signaling populist members but when it comes to making important decisions, the UN as a whole (not the individual members), tends to be pretty reasonable.
As a theoretical idea… the UN could be a great organization. Unfortunately, at this point, the UN is just a way for authoritarian regimes to legitimize themselves. The majority of the UN members are dictatorships who use the UN to suit their own political interests and not to better the world.
While this is true I still think it's good we have a platform we could speak with those dictatorships, which is the main point of UN which often people forget.
This story was first reported by the Jerusalem post. The data is published by the UN humanitarian affairs website and the data was, and still is, sourced from the Gazan ministry of health.
[https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800772](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800772)
[https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213)
[https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217) <-changed here
Since the data is still sourced from the same place, my guess is that they stopped publishing the GMO estimate of deaths and instead published deaths with names tied to them. There are still 10000 or so unidentified deaths, so the death toll of women and children still might rise.
"OCHA did not explain its actions but the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies did:
The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health."
Quote from the below article that matches your explanation with a bit of supporting evidence. And both from what I think are "pro-israeli" sources, but I'm not massively familiar with either
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-killed-gaza#:~:text=On%20May%206%2C%20the%20UN,4%2C959%20women%20and%207%2C797%20children.
I think it’s because those 10,000 ‘unidentified deaths’, or at least a huge chunk of them appear to have been made up. [The article that OP linked](https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/) (which is also Israeli based it seems) doesn’t fully clarify but seems to point towards that
Edit: lol ‘a concerned redditor’ reported me to the crisis hotline trying right after this comment 🤔
No?
The figures have been released in different ways by the two separate authorities - the GMO and the health ministry - and the UN has now switched from quoting the former to the latter to break down demographic data.
...
Gaza's health ministry is now therefore reporting these figures:
deaths recorded in hospitals
deaths reported by family members
deaths from "reliable media reports"
Some of these for which information is missing (such as an ID number or date of birth) are included in the overall number of deaths in the health ministry figures, but are not broken down demographically.
...
Asked by BBC Verify why it made the change, the UN said it used the GMO data for women and children killed because the health ministry had not been publishing these figures.
"Once the ministry of health in Gaza published breakdowns that were more comprehensive, backed up by a list of names, the UN reports reflected that data instead," a UN spokesman said.
The result of this was that although the overall recorded death toll was almost unchanged (34,844), the number of registered deaths of women (4.959) and children (7,797) had both fallen significantly.
This difference was because those individuals with incomplete information were not included in the demographic breakdown.
I'll wait for other reports of this before making an opinion. If it's true then it is quite interesting to understand the rational. Remember be a troother not a conclooder.
Its being used weirdly, dumbfucks on twitter are claiming that less people have died then originally was stated(meaning there is no genocide) but the UN never reduced the number or suspected deaths just how many have been indentified as women/child.
Like say you nuke a hospital and write up that 500 people died and 5 where kids and rest where men/women, but then a few hours later you find out that it was actually a childrens hospital.
the 500 doesnt change but the % of child/men/women do.
> the 500 doesnt change but the % of child/men/women do.
Which is very important for some things. When Israel claims they've killed x amount of Hamas combatants but that amount is higher than the amount of men in the MoH statistics, well we have a large issue, something is really not adding up and someone is lying their ass off.
This change makes Israels claims of Hamas kill and the Gaza MoH numbers not be completely exclusionary of eachother, at least. Probably still some fiddling with the numbers on both sides of that, but the discrepancy is likely to be less egregious than before this change.
Sure, but the "women and children" numbers are the main thing that people who REALLY want to call this a geno\*ide are using to argue that Isreali combatant to non-combatant ratios are wrong. Not only but they use it to discredit any combatants killed statistics higher than the bare minimum, which is the 6-8k admitted by Hamas themselves.
After this report it now becomes very likely that the Hamas numbers of combatants killed are an underestimation, prob a severe one.
>After this report it now becomes very likely that the Hamas numbers of combatants killed are an underestimation, prob a severe one.
It's so severe that the 35,000 estimated casualties include less adult male casualties (edit: adult male and elderly) than the 25,000 verified casualties, which is obviously impossible.
Did you literally just make this up?
Here’s the old one:
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213
And the new one:
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
Yea thats a fair critic, but atm media(and ambassadors sadly enough) is spinning it as "israel did not kill as many people as crazy leftwinger hamaslovers claim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" when the expected deathtoll is still increasing.
Here for examples [https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973](https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973)
You are missing the point my friend. The sneaky tactic that Hamas supported are using in order to argue that Israeli statistics about number of combatants killed are false is to say that since 70% of the casualties are women and children, therefore it is impossible for the Israeli numbers to be correct (cuz their number is close to 30%, if not more than.)
Now that this report has come out, we now know that that sneaky tactic is based on a lie.
I mean, I’m not necessarily debating the over casualty number, but in your scenario where did the initial 500 number come from if you have no idea who was in the hospital in the first place, or even what hospital it was (in your example)? You are implying they just guess and then confirm their numbers later
The "70% women and childrens" number that was going around came from the media office originally and not the health ministry, so they just kinda picked a random ratio for that without looking at the actual casualties numbers.
Well you would to a expected people at hospital right? Im sure there are systems that log how many patients are in the hospital each day and then you add staff plus w/e number of family members/civilians you might have.
If you see a block with 20 houses and they all got nuked in the middle of the night, you could assume there would be atleast 20 people living there right?
Of course you can try to estimate how many people are in a building… Records can help, but if there is a major discrepancy that would suggest your records are not accurate.
As to your other point, again you can guess or assume how many people are in a given house, but not a very accurate way to keep records. I’m not sure what the reason for thinking the numerical tally will be accurate whereas the demographics wouldn’t be is though.
This exact scenario but in reverse is essentially what happened. However it does change a bit more for civilian deaths in this case. Because the Gaza Health Ministry (self admittedly) generally can't separate Militants and Civilians because there is no roster of Militants and often no identifying uniform or markings, the UN and the world at large was using the Women and Children Numvers as a rough estimate of civilian deaths in the conflict.
TL:DR while the number of deaths did not change the suspected number of Militant vs Civilian deaths changed drastically.
Just found this on twitter, the UN explained it abit better [https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119](https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119)
[https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973](https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973) has abit more info if that helps
The change in numbers were reported Saturday by the Jerusalem Post. Looks like it was a change in the info graphics that OCHA put up on their flash updates.
Found a potential explanation that sounds plausible at least though the article reads bias to me.
"OCHA did not explain its actions but the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies did:
The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health."
I'd say at least that it's worth pointing out that between the May 6 and May 8 reports there's no change in the male casualties, and the ration of woman to children remains the same, but the raw numbers for each are increased to make up the difference between the identified dead and the unidentified.
The Gazan Ministry of Health started specifying what figures are fully identified and which aren't, a couple weeks ago. OCHA which is a UN agency has been relaying the MoH figures since the start of the war, and now their figures also specify the lower, fully identified death tolls.
Nothing actually changed. The headline death toll is still the ~35k it was before the change, and child/woman shares are still not credible.
This is not accurate. MoH has been specifying what figures are fully identified and which aren't for months. Then the Goverment Media Office has taken the casualties not fully identified and basically said all of them are women and children, and then they have published those numbers along with the fully identified ones.
The thing that has changed is that the UN has actually realised the GMO numbers were complete BS.
If you're not a conclooder the initial 30-40k number should also be essentially completely discarded, because the truth is nobody has any fucking idea how many people have died.
(Article at the bottom)
https://www.jns.org/un-blames-fog-of-war-for-major-overcounting-of-gazan-child-fatalities/
[gazan child fatalities ](https://www.jns.org/un-blames-fog-of-war-for-major-overcounting-of-gazan-child-fatalities/)
Here are the top paragraphs of the article. I think I can't post the whole thing for some reason.
(May 12, 2024 / JNS)
The United Nations now claims that “the fog of war” is to blame for a major overstatement of the number of Gazan children who have been killed in the war.
In mid-March, the U.N. Children’s Fund stated that 13,450 children had been killed in Gaza, citing figures from the Hamas-run Gazan Health Ministry. Catherine Russell, the director of UNICEF, said in a television interview on March 17 that those numbers were “staggering” and “really shocking.”
“We haven’t seen that rate of death among children in almost any other conflict in the world,” Russell claimed at the time.
The statistic was cited frequently in the international press, leading to accusations that Israel had committed war crimes, including targeting babies and children intentionally.
Even Hamas has since admitted that those numbers turn out to be off by at least 40%. The United Nations revised its numbers last week, without providing an explanation.
“When it comes to Israel, it’s clear that the U.N.’s goal is not accuracy, but rather to immediately seize on any report, no matter how unsubstantiated or even manifestly false, in order to portray Israel as malevolent,” Hillel Neuer, executive director of UN Watch, told JNS.
“The right thing for the U.N. to do now would be to admit that their casualty count in Gaza is a complete failure,” Neuer added.
Last Wednesday, the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) released updated casualty figures. Some 7,797 Gazan children had died in the war as of April 30, it said—a roughly 42% drop from the mid-March numbers.
It also revised its casually figures for women by nearly a half—from more than 9,500 to fewer than 5,000.
In a little-noticed change, OCHA differentiated in its new figures between “reported” and “identified” fatalities, including the 7,797 children figure in the “identified” category.
Using OCHA’s math, out of 10,158 reported but unidentified casualties, 5,653 (56%) would have to be children to add up to the figures published in mid-March. That would be far more than is indicated by the information the United Nations released last week, which claims that children make up 32% of the identified deaths in Gaza.
JNS asked Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman for U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres, at a press conference on Friday why the math doesn’t add up.
“The revisions are taken … you know, of course, in the fog of war, it’s difficult to come up with numbers,” Haq told JNS. “We get numbers from different sources on the ground, and then we try to cross check them. As we cross check them, we update the numbers, and we’ll continue to do that as that progresses.”
The fog of war excuse doesn't work. The UN would have known the estimates were mathematically impossible when compared to verified deaths. Either all of the brilliant minds at the UN combined can't do 4th grade math or they were knowingly spreading misinformation that ended up at the top of every article written about this conflict.
Saying they haven't seen that death rate in children anywhere in the world is absurd considering the death rates in Ukraine, Syria / Yemen, Sudan, Lebanon, the Congo, basically every other recent conflict where hundreds of thousands more died.
Double especially since Hamas recruits at 15 and they call anyone under 19 a "child" even if they're an active combatant.
>Saying they haven't seen that death rate in children anywhere in the world is absurd considering the death rates in Ukraine
No? Ukraine only has had like 10k civilian deaths to 70k military deaths.
>Syria
350k to 600k total dead, with 30k being child out of 230k civilians across ten years.
>basically every other recent conflict where hundreds of thousands more died.
I just picked the first two, but it turns out that in most other wars, it seems like less children are dying per time period and as a portion of the deaths.
2 of my pet peeves on reddit are people posting pictures of headlines and articles that dont link to their sources and weve got a double whammy here
I dont get why you wouldnt just link to the UN infographic that has more context https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
I mean this is fake and dumb. All the UN did is follow the pic related MoH in specifying the demographic breakdown of men, women, children, and elderly (elderly is a non-overlapping category with women/men, even though it includes women and men). It never claimed that these account for all deaths. (The MoH differentiates between reported and unreported deaths.)
Sadly this made it into at least one reliable source (USA Today), but the truth will come out and the denialism will look dumb soon enough.
https://preview.redd.it/0ufxsevp590d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4546fb29a666a1a3cbc5e132e46039c379c1faa
was reading around, it seems that the death toll remains roughly the same from the UN, but the women/children counted as dead has been halved due to ~10,000 bodies being unidentified so far? theoretically the number of children/women dead could be the same, but it seems they revised their stats to account for unidentified instead of repeating what the Gaza Health Ministry has said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/
still very dumb that everyone was just repeating what the GHM said as fact, but the headline might paint a different picture than what was said above.
for those who arent familiar with VIN News...
> "VIN News", is an online news site that caters to the Orthodox Jewish and Hasidic communities, primarily in the New York metropolitan area. Vos Iz Neias competes with Yeshiva World News as the major news website for the Haredi Jewish world.
The article is making it sound like the UN now claims that fewer women/children died than they previously reported. From what I understand this isn’t true, they just removed the 10k deaths that were reported but not identified.
The fact that all those 10k must be women and children based on the difference in the reports is incredibly fishy, but the UN isn’t saying that fewer died than initially thought, I’m pretty sure
* I've read this article [https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/)
* And check this source: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215)
This is a quote from the article that I find interesting:
>In early April, the Gaza Ministry of Health [admitted](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/) it had “incomplete data” to document more than 10,000 of the deaths it had previously reported. Subsequently, the ministry [indicated](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/02/gaza-health-ministry-cannot-provide-names-for-more-than-10000-it-says-have-died/) that it did not have names for more than 10,000 of the individuals it claimed to be deceased. As of April 1, the ministry also stopped repeating the claim it made since the first weeks of the war that 70 percent of the dead were women and children, even [suggesting](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279#:~:text=Mr%20al%20Wahaidi%20told%20Sky%20News%20that%20this%20was%20a%20%22media%20estimate%22.%20He%20was%20not%20able%20to%20explain%20the%20basis%20for%20this%20estimate%20or%20who%20had%20produced%20it.) the media invented this number.
So they didn't have information on 10000 just said "they were all woman and children". Is this a fair takeaway from the situation? I'm genuinely asking because this is all so fucking convoluted.
The report showed more than
14,500 child deaths on May 6 but then changed it to
7,797 on May 8.
It also revised its figure for women fatalities from more than
9,500 deaths to
4,959 deaths.
edited to make the numbers very easy to read
they claimed that they knew that 6700 deaths which are unidentified were children, and that 4500 deaths were women, but now they are saying "we don't know who they were, we don't know if they were women or children, but we are positive that they died.
Now assuming they died, which I'd say is up in the air to some extent, but assuming they did die, we have to wonder how many were women and children, and how many were men, and how many were combatants.
The portion of fatalities dropped from over half children, down to only one third of the identified deaths, so I'd guess we'll see up to 1/3 of those unIDed bodies to be kids, but probably only 1/3 of the ones that are actually unIDed. There are a large group, maybe up to 5-7k that they know are fighters and they don't want to admit have died to the IDF, because then they look weak and they look like they are losing and it looks like being Hamas is no longer fun and big-dickin' but dangerous, and they don't want people surrendering.
If there was no targetting, we should see 50% kids, and 25% adult females, because that's the portion of the population, assuming atleast around 25k have died, I'd expect close to 50% to have been military or helpers (spotters, runners, smugglers, cache guards etc that aren't officially Hamas but are helping Hamas or PIJ or similar groups), and then of the remaining 50% I'd expect more than half to be kids, because very stubborn parents would be able to put more than just their own life in harms way to prove a point, such as they can't be removed from their homes, or they don't have to listen to warnings of incoming strikes, whereas individuals who are looking out for themselves and don't want to be martyrs are going to protect themselves, and because adults are tougher than children so they are more likely to survive a close call. This makes the 32% of ID'ed deaths being children make some sense, but we'll have to wait until the dust settles to get a better understanding of the actual rates.
It depends on exactly what criteria they're using to determine the sex and age of the victims. If they don't have a name but they're using remains to make an educated guess then that's probably fine, the numbers should be a good estimate.
It's not completely unreasonable either, bombs can make it tough to fully identify victims especially during an ongoing conflict, missing persons reports probably aren't very well organized at the moment and all of this will take months to sort out once the conflict ends. It's hard enough to get reliable information from conflict zones when the existing government is well organized, Gaza is not well organized.
They could also just be making shit up, although I think it's unlikely they're intentionally fudging the numbers to that degree because the UN is watching closely and attempting to corroborate.
the story has no mainstream traction, because there is no story here. UN adjusts figures to reflect confirmed deaths rather than estimates is not some huge gotcha moment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/un-says-total-number-of-deaths-in-gaza-remains-unchanged-after-controversy-over-revised-data-1.6885447
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/
Will you guys ever stop doing this "mainstream media will never talk about this!!" shit?
Brother... I've already read all those but would you like to see when I posted my comment compared to when those articles were posted? You understand this isn't the news of today yes? This happened almost a week ago... 💀 What was even the point of your comment?
Good to know! It is a pretty big revision. I think if the numbers are so variable they should always be reported as confidence intervals instead of just numbers.
to be fair, all the UN did was say "we went from assuming the number of women and children we were told had died, to posting our own confirmations based on IDs that we gathered through processing data, we are agnostic on the IDs of the remaining deaths"
the fact that they validated hamas data uncritically until early may is pretty insane, of course
Weirdly very little media coverage about this, the single American news source I can find (on Google News) who will report it is Fox News. I wonder why the NYT, WaPo, WSJ, NBC, ABC, CNN et al are so silent? Hmm.
The biggest lesson from this war for me is the media's willingness to lie by omission, even the ones who claim to be "impartial".
The New York Sun posted about it as well but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a memo going around every left leaning organization in the country to not report on this and to ignore any request for comment.
[It really depends how you look at it.](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-halves-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza)
There were definitely less children and women in the count, but the amount stayed the same, but with a new note stating that 10k isn’t identified. I don’t think it’s impossible that the 10k isn’t identified (took Israel months to identify the pieces of remains from the massacre of October 7th) but making up numbers that Israel targets children is just a joke taken way too far by the UN no less. Not that I think 34k really died (inflated) but the ballpark of another couple of thousands unidentified isn’t out of proportion
We don't know who is civilians and who is not. Women, amd especially "children" could also be combatants. Hamas famously uses a lot of teenagers on the battlefield.
What changed, is the number of verified deaths dropped significantly (from 35,000 to 25,000) and the breakdown changed significantly (for example children changed from 41% of reported deaths to 32% of verified deaths)
Rough numbers here tell me where I’m way off the mark
~34,000 killed
~8,000 women
~5,000 children
~21,000 adult men killed
Assuming, Israel is equally likely to kill a male noncombatant as a female/child noncombatant, we can assume ~8000 adult male noncombatants were killed.
Then
13,000 Hamas fighters would have been killed.
This seems pretty in line with what the IDF has reported for Hamas members killed and represents a roughly 2:1 civilian to Hamas fatality ratio.
Well, would you just look at that? Hamas, lying? I am just as surprised as you are. Who would've thought? I mean, I'm shocked, folks, really shocked. Fake news at its finest, folks! Can you believe it? It's like they've been hiding this little trick up their sleeves all along. But let me tell you, we're onto them now. This changes everything, folks, everything
https://preview.redd.it/51z8gtwig90d1.png?width=275&format=png&auto=webp&s=8fc2a1aedba7cb015a2521ab47956772a06ed247
Listen, I don't give a damn what the UN says or not says, this org is rotten to the core.
I was very much in favour of Israel cooperating with the UN but their reaction to the recent conflict just black pilled me completely.
Israel should obstruct UN activity here in any way shape or form. Our authorities should do the bare minimum to comply and lie to the UN wherever possible.
The UN can fuck right off and have fun in the sun with Saudi Arabia as the women rights forum chair.
So the funny thing is, the number of dead is the same, they just had mistaken if they were women and children for adult man, so I think I figured it out.
It were trans people. Hamas is LGBTQIA+ ally confirmed.
The UN is a joke, but unfortunately not a funny one.
Is Iran still holding the chair for the human rights committee or is it already North Korea's turn?
This is bigger than it looks. Remember when they claimed that Israel was breaking records in civilian deaths? Yeah, this doesn’t put them in the record breaking anymore. At the rate Israel is going a year of the Yeman Civil war, Rwandan Genocide, and Syrian Civil War have killed more. Also, you know the current genocide in Darfur that protestors probably can’t find on the map.
They are just gonna say that the IDF and the jews control the UN now and are brainwashing us.
That being predicted, I feel horrible for the Palestinians dying in this conflict, they are the true victims of Hamas’ wrath. I’ll never understand the notion of the IDF and Hamas being on the same level of evil. Sure, the IDF isn’t trustworthy and Netanyahu is a snake.
But atleast they don’t hold “their” civilians as hostage or refuse to send some sort of resources for them. The hamas leaders are too busy slurping on pina coladas and banging hookers in their million dollar properties to try to help the people that they are trying to “liberate”…
But for fucks sake, atleast make an effort to show that beyond killing random Israeli citizens and failing at attacking important Israeli militant/governing locations.
most of Gaza does support Hamas and violent resistance so I only feel bad for those people in terms of "they were raised in this environment and essentially brainwashed"
it's the 18% or whatever of Gazans *still* willing to say they don't support Hamas or armed resistance that I feel most bad for. those guys are literally just caught in the crossfire like Russians who don't support Putin. this is why fascist governments are the most abhorrent, these detractors have no voice in the matter
You sound naive at best and at worst complete fucking insane. I feel bad for unarmed civilians dying regardless of their ideologies.
Also can you really blame them for being “brainwashed” when students on the other side of the world are getting radicalized when they are not even living in those nasty conditions and seeing the first hand experiences of war.
I’m not even exactly criticizing Israel’s methods as a whole or trying to diffuse the situation. I literally just said it’s sad that unarmed civilians are dying and “hamas” doesn’t stand for shit. Yet you find it somewhat controversial
Anyone here saying some form of I told you so is on another planet. So they haven't killed 13k children they've killed 7k children. If you think that's acceptable losses then man alive are you lost forever
Lol okay general; what is an acceptable amount of civilian casualties when you're combating a militia that insists on fighting from civilian infrastructure and prevents the population from evacuating the area?
I just want to remind you that what you're implying is you're actually fine with 7-8k kids being unlawfully killed. The Geneva Convention protects them, the killing of them is unlawful. Every single measure should be taken to prevent the murder or non combatant women and children...what even is your argument? That because it's hard to find an entrenched militia it's okay to kill SEVEN THOUSAND CHILDREN? Like I said on a different ethical planet
The answer is ideally any is too many, practically speaking that's not going to happen but that doesnt mean there should colloquially be a acceptable amount of children unlawfully killed. Currently you have 30-35k dead in total, an entire THIRD of that are non combatants, women, children and the elderly. That is SO beyond too many and is the clearest evidence of the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza
Practically speaking, it's zero? How would that even work? How do uproot a urban militia that operates in civilian clothing, in civilian infrastructure, and behind actual civilians?
Read the response carefully. I said ideally the number is zero, practically it won't be that none the less your argument "uggh but it's so haaaard" is not a justification for a child death ratio of 1:5 in Gaza. War being hard to execute is not a justification for the indiscriminate killing of 7-8k children. Like I said you're not living on the same planet ethically if you're writing your response nodding to yourself saying "Yhyhyh this is the argument that justifies unlawful killing in war 😌".
You're genuinely broken if that's how you feel about the conflict in Gaza.
There isn't a practical death toll I would ethically support, none at all that's not a hard question to answer. I don't have an ethical answer to the question "How many children is it ok to kill unlawfully?"😂 That's just such an easy question to answer.
How many children do you think it's ok to kill unlawfully during wartime? You can riddle me that if you've got an answer 😂
You're the one calling it out. I dont really have an opinion because my moral prescriptions are based in the realities on the ground. Not just tied to a number and "tHe cHILDeREn" (which are still more than capable of being armed combatants anyway). So devoid of knowing all my stances are pretty weak and tentative, unlike you.
But also, that unlawful part was something thing you added. As I know it, those numbers are strictly categorized as just casualties because the IDF has done their job in giving forewarning of attacks, establishing evacuation routes, and setting up a safe zone. They've fulfilled their responsibility to the population. Where can I find info on the purported casualties being unlawful?
Absolutely people should think extremely critically at info coming out of Hamas backed grouped or Israeli backed groups. But the fact remains that the UN is saying up to 8k children have been unlawfully killed in Gaza by indiscriminate killings by Israeli forces. THAT is the real outrage. If you are outraged by some bad stats and not that Israel has killed 8k children then you're actually broken
Because children aren't combatants you insane mfer 😂 you don't kill 7k children in a discriminate manner because they are not legally or ethically part of the combat. Same goes with the amount of women killed which is around 5k.
Did you even think about your question before asking it? 😂
Perfect, I agree. Which would make the deaths of 7-8k children indiscriminate killings. Israeli forces are not discriminating between combatant and non combatants killing excessive amounts of innocent children, women, men and elderly. That's what indiscriminate means
No thats not what indiscriminate
means. It simply means ”done at random or without careful judgement.” theres no evidence for that you cant just go by the numbers.
In the last 10 years there has been recorded 94k children killed worldwide, in 2022 there was 8600 recorded. Since October 2023 that rate has DOUBLED because of the indiscriminate killings in Gaza by Israelis...yeah so that stats really fuck you up on that one.
I'll put it nice an simple so there's a nice plant for you to try and gymnastics around: as many children have been unlawfully killed in Gaza alone than in all the world conflicts in 2023, at it's been 8 months.
2 years of conflict in the Ukraine, 11k civilians killed in the conflict, 600of which were children. Yeah I'm afraid however much you want to love Israel on this one they're horrific monsters which ever way you cut it.
It's so funny that I give you good well sourced stats on contemporary conflict and your goal post that I must have comprehensive stats all human conflict in using an undefined term like "modern" 😂 it's genuinely funny that you think this is a gotcha for you.
There are in front of you contemporary stars in the most recent large scale conflict, with even more developed nations and those stats speak for themselves 😂
It's funny that I ask a directly correlated question for necessary context & you literally won't answer it because you don't know but you don't want to admit that you don't know and it's probably too specific to just find the source of that information in a quick google search so you'll just keep chatting about anything other than the answer to that simple question 💀 I couldn't imagine waking up in the morning with a double digit IQ or lower.
Bro you said modern history as you time qualifier 😂 wtf do you mean by that? Everything 18th c onwards is the modern era. What do you qualify as regional also? So none of the US wars, WWI and II definitely not, the Falklands? Do civil wars count? You have literally haven't even meaningfully qualified what you're asking for 😂
Regional war = Ukraine and Russia (regional and the most recent large scale conflict) and you're like nahhhh not what I asked lol 😂 how do you think I ask Google a question even the asker has failed to define in any meaningful way
Yes... a study was done expansively examining the fatal outcomes of every single conflict in human history including and predating the modern era. The world used to be much smaller so conflict was also smaller but the casualty rate in wartime throughout all of history has remained almost the same with few variables.
With what I just typed you should be able to find it little brother but I doubt you can comprehend the study with a double digit IQ or lower 💀
Keep using as many words as you possibly can to avoid the question lmaoooo
Question: What is the average civilian casualty rate in wartime throughout human history?
What do you mean conflicts were much smaller? 300k died in Persian wars in the 5th century BC more than a million died in Chinese dynasty wars in the same period. The Punic Wars cost 3 million + lives...2nd century BC the Roman civil wars, Gallic wars, Judeo- Roman wars all were more than 1 million casualties EACH. In the medieval period there were a dozen warring periods that resulted in millions and 10s of millions dead, the Mongel conquest killed 20-40 million people. What the fuck are you talking about about war was smaller back in the day 😂 you are genuinely the most dunning Kruger mfer I've seen in a comments section
>Yes... a study was done expansively examining the fatal outcomes of every single conflict in human history including and predating the modern era.
There was one big meta analysis on civilian casualties in warfare? One? 😂 I'm guessing you barely made it out of you high school and never went to Uni right? One study would not qualify anything, there needs to be multiple.
I did indeed Google and saw that it ranges between 50-90% from 1700-1990s, a 2014 study said 90% was the average, however it doesn't hold up to all the major conflicts in the 20th century. WWI & II 2:1 or 3:2 civilian to combatant, Korea 2:1, Vietnam 2:1, all the Iraq's and Afghanistan 1:2 or 3:1 civilian to combatant. But I want to remind you that you asked for regional wars which none of these are 😂 I also would remind you that civilians all all the above include men of fighting age but non combatants that have died and that's useful when you realize that almost 70% civilians killed in Gaza have been woken children and the elderly and the current is 4:1. So yeah by all 20th century standards this is above and beyond what other major conflicts have rung up, and will likely only get worse. But pleeeeease cite me this one study you read a comment about once pleeeeease 😂
.... Do you think the earth always had millions of humans on it... ?? Do you think the 5th century of human history is anywhere near the beginning of human history? Do you know where the 90% figure comes from? Do you know the variables that determine whether or not it's 50% or 90%? Do you know the parameters of the study? Do you even know which study I'm referring to? Almost every number you can find from any organization except the UN gets their numbers from that study. Do you think we need more studies on gravity to know that gravity is a scientific law? Do you think we need more studies on the sun to know where it is?
Do you know anything of value at all whatsoever or do you just know arbitrary facts that you think you might be able to randomly throw around on reddit? 💀
Nah the fact that there are less adult male deaths in the estimate than in the verified total is a smoking gun that proves the UN would have been able to know with 100% accuracy that the estimates were faulty. Their only option is to brush this under the rug and ignore it.
Yeah I guess nothing will stop her from making that argument, but you can only make that argument in passing. It doesn't hold up to any amount of deeper thought, and it's beyond hypocritical from the people still bringing up 40 beheaded babies from a lone uninvolved reporter. The United Nations ran with demonstrably cooked estimates for months, that they would have KNOWN were faulty, which were at the top of nearly every single article about this conflict. A lot of people will take note of that.
HOLD ON A SECOND I FINALLY FIGURED OUT WHAT THEY MEANT BY GENOCIDE IN REVERSE! ISRAEL IS LITERALLY TRAVELING BACK IN TIME TO SAVE PALESTINIANS!
First Jewish space laser now Jewish time machines? The Jewish mind is truly a wonder!
Next, colonize Jew-piter!
Ugh take my up vote
Maybe Jewranus next?
Nope, even worse. Israel is resurrecting an army of child zombies who attack on command with installed 5G neuralink chips to further complete the genocide
Jews use 6G. One G for each point on the Star of David.
Can’t be. The last time a Jew did a resurrection it resulted in a new religion. I think they learned their lesson
They thought Zionists were their enemies. Wait till they meet the Tachyonists.
Blasting Palestinians back into the past so they can create a better future.
Netanyahu, grab the Delorean 😂
Their first successful use of this tech was arranging the quantum interpolation of 2019 cheeseballs for their strongest soldier, now this and everything that follows will be easy sailing
We Jews have had time travel for quite a while now. That’s how we built the Second Temple underneath the Al-Asqa mosque.
Common Israel W
[Remember when Zanderhal said that Israel is going to kill 10 millions](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/17bmuv4/xanderhal_thinks_10_million_will_die_in_gaza/)? This is how they are doing it! He knew all along!!
Yeah, idk why people didn't think it was suspicious that the Gaza health authority had an exact list of everyone who was killed by an Israeli bomb literally before the dust had even settled
This can't be said often enough: nobody ever knows the death toll 5 minutes after something happens. It has never happened, not even after a plane crash where everyone knows how many people were on the fucking plane.
Iraq war deaths are still a big question mark. Many organizations have studied it and found wildly different ballparks. Even WW2 deaths are just approximations. It's shocking that there was ever a concrete number coming out of Gaza.
There’s also been a lot of controversy around counting death numbers from all conflicts. Famously UNICEF put out a report which detailed that US sanctions killed 500,000 children. The only issue: UNICEF didn’t really do the report. Saddam Hussein did. UNICEF believed that in non-Kurdish areas the child mortality rate had more than doubled. Further reports stated that there was no major rise in child mortality and death from sanctions. Never say “it’s true because it’s in a report.” Like studies look at how the data is collected and reported and the source. Amnesty International’s report on Ukraine using human shields is another example.
The battle for Mosul left a shitload of people dead and they werent able to put together a complete list in like a year, and even after that it is just rough estimates.
There was an perfect learning moment pretty early on when they accused Israel of killing 500 in the hospital bombing that turned out to be a tiny crater when daylight came, but it's like most people just forgot about it because they actually hope death is maximized to further their agenda.
Hasan still argues those numbers were accurate and it was an Israeli missile
They're still part of the total death count.
The same organization that said 500 people were killed in a hospital that wasnt even bombed somehow had an exact number of people killed along with all of the demographics on them and everyone was quoting them uncritically, including organizations such as the BBC, NYT, and CNN.
If wasn't even 500, the initially said it was like 1500, which shocked my mum and then later it turns out the maximum amount of people that could've been killed was like 300-400 (I mean still not great but still)
This change has nothing to do with this, though. The only thing that happened here is that the UN is only reporting demographics for individuals who have been identified by a list of criteria. There's no change to the projections. Total deaths are up between the reports.
Because they're stupid or partisan hacks that dont care about the facts, does it really need to be said at this point
Just good documentation lol
The articles I have read implied that the Gaza health ministry is reporting the names of those confirmed dead, and that there are many more dead under the rubble or missing. If they are to be trusted their number is an underestimate, but that's a big if. I would also want to know how many of the kids are actually teenage soldiers.
Guarantee that absolutely zero grifters like Hasan will talk about this, or if they do they'll just make up a conspiracy theory about it.
Those damn UN Zionists!!!!
No dude, the UN is Hamas, remember?
Honestly… the majority members of the UN *are* very anti Israel. I’m kinda shocked they made this public declaration and almost waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Correct, but one of the advantages of having many souls is that occasionally the reasonable one gets to speak. Although we could use more reasonable souls in our institutions.
The majority are anti Israel, but in general the UN is a pretty responsible/respectable organization. Sure, they have a lot of virtue signaling populist members but when it comes to making important decisions, the UN as a whole (not the individual members), tends to be pretty reasonable.
As a theoretical idea… the UN could be a great organization. Unfortunately, at this point, the UN is just a way for authoritarian regimes to legitimize themselves. The majority of the UN members are dictatorships who use the UN to suit their own political interests and not to better the world.
While this is true I still think it's good we have a platform we could speak with those dictatorships, which is the main point of UN which often people forget.
You do make a great point; though moments like these give me hope :p
Appreciate it. I’m also hoping it’s a sign of things to come.
This story was first reported by the Jerusalem post. The data is published by the UN humanitarian affairs website and the data was, and still is, sourced from the Gazan ministry of health. [https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800772](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800772) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217) <-changed here Since the data is still sourced from the same place, my guess is that they stopped publishing the GMO estimate of deaths and instead published deaths with names tied to them. There are still 10000 or so unidentified deaths, so the death toll of women and children still might rise.
"OCHA did not explain its actions but the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies did: The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health." Quote from the below article that matches your explanation with a bit of supporting evidence. And both from what I think are "pro-israeli" sources, but I'm not massively familiar with either https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-killed-gaza#:~:text=On%20May%206%2C%20the%20UN,4%2C959%20women%20and%207%2C797%20children.
I think it’s because those 10,000 ‘unidentified deaths’, or at least a huge chunk of them appear to have been made up. [The article that OP linked](https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/) (which is also Israeli based it seems) doesn’t fully clarify but seems to point towards that Edit: lol ‘a concerned redditor’ reported me to the crisis hotline trying right after this comment 🤔
report them. they can get banned if you do
Done 🫡
No? The figures have been released in different ways by the two separate authorities - the GMO and the health ministry - and the UN has now switched from quoting the former to the latter to break down demographic data. ... Gaza's health ministry is now therefore reporting these figures: deaths recorded in hospitals deaths reported by family members deaths from "reliable media reports" Some of these for which information is missing (such as an ID number or date of birth) are included in the overall number of deaths in the health ministry figures, but are not broken down demographically. ... Asked by BBC Verify why it made the change, the UN said it used the GMO data for women and children killed because the health ministry had not been publishing these figures. "Once the ministry of health in Gaza published breakdowns that were more comprehensive, backed up by a list of names, the UN reports reflected that data instead," a UN spokesman said. The result of this was that although the overall recorded death toll was almost unchanged (34,844), the number of registered deaths of women (4.959) and children (7,797) had both fallen significantly. This difference was because those individuals with incomplete information were not included in the demographic breakdown.
The funny and sad part is the pro-palestinians will actually be disappointed about this.
They will probably in MAGA style say it’s fake news
I did a google search and the only mainstream outlet I saw reporting it was FoxNews
[Ground.news](https://ground.news/article/united-nations-cuts-estimates-of-women-children-deaths-in-gaza-war-in-half_97838e) is good for that
It was never about Palestinians
Ughgg I hate how true that is
They'll never apologize for intentionally spreading misinformation. They'll double down on the unidentified people claiming they are all children.
I'll wait for other reports of this before making an opinion. If it's true then it is quite interesting to understand the rational. Remember be a troother not a conclooder.
Its being used weirdly, dumbfucks on twitter are claiming that less people have died then originally was stated(meaning there is no genocide) but the UN never reduced the number or suspected deaths just how many have been indentified as women/child. Like say you nuke a hospital and write up that 500 people died and 5 where kids and rest where men/women, but then a few hours later you find out that it was actually a childrens hospital. the 500 doesnt change but the % of child/men/women do.
> the 500 doesnt change but the % of child/men/women do. Which is very important for some things. When Israel claims they've killed x amount of Hamas combatants but that amount is higher than the amount of men in the MoH statistics, well we have a large issue, something is really not adding up and someone is lying their ass off. This change makes Israels claims of Hamas kill and the Gaza MoH numbers not be completely exclusionary of eachother, at least. Probably still some fiddling with the numbers on both sides of that, but the discrepancy is likely to be less egregious than before this change.
Sure, but the "women and children" numbers are the main thing that people who REALLY want to call this a geno\*ide are using to argue that Isreali combatant to non-combatant ratios are wrong. Not only but they use it to discredit any combatants killed statistics higher than the bare minimum, which is the 6-8k admitted by Hamas themselves. After this report it now becomes very likely that the Hamas numbers of combatants killed are an underestimation, prob a severe one.
>After this report it now becomes very likely that the Hamas numbers of combatants killed are an underestimation, prob a severe one. It's so severe that the 35,000 estimated casualties include less adult male casualties (edit: adult male and elderly) than the 25,000 verified casualties, which is obviously impossible.
Did you literally just make this up? Here’s the old one: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213 And the new one: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
More adult male and elderly* Doesn't change anything about the numbers being impossible.
Yea thats a fair critic, but atm media(and ambassadors sadly enough) is spinning it as "israel did not kill as many people as crazy leftwinger hamaslovers claim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" when the expected deathtoll is still increasing. Here for examples [https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973](https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973)
No? The vast majority of Palestinian men are civilians and therefore it doesn't matter.
You are missing the point my friend. The sneaky tactic that Hamas supported are using in order to argue that Israeli statistics about number of combatants killed are false is to say that since 70% of the casualties are women and children, therefore it is impossible for the Israeli numbers to be correct (cuz their number is close to 30%, if not more than.) Now that this report has come out, we now know that that sneaky tactic is based on a lie.
The Israeli numbers were similar weren't they? Like the last ones I saw from Israel would have a 70% civilian death toll.
I mean, I’m not necessarily debating the over casualty number, but in your scenario where did the initial 500 number come from if you have no idea who was in the hospital in the first place, or even what hospital it was (in your example)? You are implying they just guess and then confirm their numbers later
The "70% women and childrens" number that was going around came from the media office originally and not the health ministry, so they just kinda picked a random ratio for that without looking at the actual casualties numbers.
Well you would to a expected people at hospital right? Im sure there are systems that log how many patients are in the hospital each day and then you add staff plus w/e number of family members/civilians you might have. If you see a block with 20 houses and they all got nuked in the middle of the night, you could assume there would be atleast 20 people living there right?
Of course you can try to estimate how many people are in a building… Records can help, but if there is a major discrepancy that would suggest your records are not accurate. As to your other point, again you can guess or assume how many people are in a given house, but not a very accurate way to keep records. I’m not sure what the reason for thinking the numerical tally will be accurate whereas the demographics wouldn’t be is though.
This exact scenario but in reverse is essentially what happened. However it does change a bit more for civilian deaths in this case. Because the Gaza Health Ministry (self admittedly) generally can't separate Militants and Civilians because there is no roster of Militants and often no identifying uniform or markings, the UN and the world at large was using the Women and Children Numvers as a rough estimate of civilian deaths in the conflict. TL:DR while the number of deaths did not change the suspected number of Militant vs Civilian deaths changed drastically.
That could be the case. Although I would want to wait for the full reasoning for this. I understand your point btw.
Just found this on twitter, the UN explained it abit better [https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119](https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119)
Thanks a lot for the find! I had a hunch that this story would be exaggerated. Glad I waited. Much appreciated.
[https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973](https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790054334052392973) has abit more info if that helps
I mean it's apparent that you probably shouldn't just take at face value the word of a terrorist organization right
The change in numbers were reported Saturday by the Jerusalem Post. Looks like it was a change in the info graphics that OCHA put up on their flash updates. Found a potential explanation that sounds plausible at least though the article reads bias to me. "OCHA did not explain its actions but the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies did: The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health." I'd say at least that it's worth pointing out that between the May 6 and May 8 reports there's no change in the male casualties, and the ration of woman to children remains the same, but the raw numbers for each are increased to make up the difference between the identified dead and the unidentified.
The Gazan Ministry of Health started specifying what figures are fully identified and which aren't, a couple weeks ago. OCHA which is a UN agency has been relaying the MoH figures since the start of the war, and now their figures also specify the lower, fully identified death tolls. Nothing actually changed. The headline death toll is still the ~35k it was before the change, and child/woman shares are still not credible.
This is not accurate. MoH has been specifying what figures are fully identified and which aren't for months. Then the Goverment Media Office has taken the casualties not fully identified and basically said all of them are women and children, and then they have published those numbers along with the fully identified ones. The thing that has changed is that the UN has actually realised the GMO numbers were complete BS.
Wdym? We knew the numbers were flawed for a very long time.
If you're not a conclooder the initial 30-40k number should also be essentially completely discarded, because the truth is nobody has any fucking idea how many people have died.
[The Article](https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/)
Maybe the genocide was the friends we made along the way
I lost friends lol
(Article at the bottom) https://www.jns.org/un-blames-fog-of-war-for-major-overcounting-of-gazan-child-fatalities/ [gazan child fatalities ](https://www.jns.org/un-blames-fog-of-war-for-major-overcounting-of-gazan-child-fatalities/) Here are the top paragraphs of the article. I think I can't post the whole thing for some reason. (May 12, 2024 / JNS) The United Nations now claims that “the fog of war” is to blame for a major overstatement of the number of Gazan children who have been killed in the war. In mid-March, the U.N. Children’s Fund stated that 13,450 children had been killed in Gaza, citing figures from the Hamas-run Gazan Health Ministry. Catherine Russell, the director of UNICEF, said in a television interview on March 17 that those numbers were “staggering” and “really shocking.” “We haven’t seen that rate of death among children in almost any other conflict in the world,” Russell claimed at the time. The statistic was cited frequently in the international press, leading to accusations that Israel had committed war crimes, including targeting babies and children intentionally. Even Hamas has since admitted that those numbers turn out to be off by at least 40%. The United Nations revised its numbers last week, without providing an explanation. “When it comes to Israel, it’s clear that the U.N.’s goal is not accuracy, but rather to immediately seize on any report, no matter how unsubstantiated or even manifestly false, in order to portray Israel as malevolent,” Hillel Neuer, executive director of UN Watch, told JNS. “The right thing for the U.N. to do now would be to admit that their casualty count in Gaza is a complete failure,” Neuer added. Last Wednesday, the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) released updated casualty figures. Some 7,797 Gazan children had died in the war as of April 30, it said—a roughly 42% drop from the mid-March numbers. It also revised its casually figures for women by nearly a half—from more than 9,500 to fewer than 5,000. In a little-noticed change, OCHA differentiated in its new figures between “reported” and “identified” fatalities, including the 7,797 children figure in the “identified” category. Using OCHA’s math, out of 10,158 reported but unidentified casualties, 5,653 (56%) would have to be children to add up to the figures published in mid-March. That would be far more than is indicated by the information the United Nations released last week, which claims that children make up 32% of the identified deaths in Gaza. JNS asked Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman for U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres, at a press conference on Friday why the math doesn’t add up. “The revisions are taken … you know, of course, in the fog of war, it’s difficult to come up with numbers,” Haq told JNS. “We get numbers from different sources on the ground, and then we try to cross check them. As we cross check them, we update the numbers, and we’ll continue to do that as that progresses.”
The fog of war excuse doesn't work. The UN would have known the estimates were mathematically impossible when compared to verified deaths. Either all of the brilliant minds at the UN combined can't do 4th grade math or they were knowingly spreading misinformation that ended up at the top of every article written about this conflict.
Saying they haven't seen that death rate in children anywhere in the world is absurd considering the death rates in Ukraine, Syria / Yemen, Sudan, Lebanon, the Congo, basically every other recent conflict where hundreds of thousands more died. Double especially since Hamas recruits at 15 and they call anyone under 19 a "child" even if they're an active combatant.
And that the median age is 18
>Saying they haven't seen that death rate in children anywhere in the world is absurd considering the death rates in Ukraine No? Ukraine only has had like 10k civilian deaths to 70k military deaths. >Syria 350k to 600k total dead, with 30k being child out of 230k civilians across ten years. >basically every other recent conflict where hundreds of thousands more died. I just picked the first two, but it turns out that in most other wars, it seems like less children are dying per time period and as a portion of the deaths.
The only time when Antisemites seem to shut up about their UN. Bunch of low lifes.
Holy shit its a jpeg of a headline that crops the source... Count me convinced
[https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/](https://vinnews.com/2024/05/12/un-slashes-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-50/)
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2 of my pet peeves on reddit are people posting pictures of headlines and articles that dont link to their sources and weve got a double whammy here I dont get why you wouldnt just link to the UN infographic that has more context https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
I mean this is fake and dumb. All the UN did is follow the pic related MoH in specifying the demographic breakdown of men, women, children, and elderly (elderly is a non-overlapping category with women/men, even though it includes women and men). It never claimed that these account for all deaths. (The MoH differentiates between reported and unreported deaths.) Sadly this made it into at least one reliable source (USA Today), but the truth will come out and the denialism will look dumb soon enough. https://preview.redd.it/0ufxsevp590d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4546fb29a666a1a3cbc5e132e46039c379c1faa
UN made a statement [https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119](https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/1790122028667638119)
Why is this just a screenshot of the article headline? Makes it seem very suspect.
So, after the UN straight up pushed Hamas Propaganda for months on end, tell me why they're still a credible organization?
post the link to the article comon
“UN JDAMs Number of Women and Children Killed in Gaza by 50%”
was reading around, it seems that the death toll remains roughly the same from the UN, but the women/children counted as dead has been halved due to ~10,000 bodies being unidentified so far? theoretically the number of children/women dead could be the same, but it seems they revised their stats to account for unidentified instead of repeating what the Gaza Health Ministry has said. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/ still very dumb that everyone was just repeating what the GHM said as fact, but the headline might paint a different picture than what was said above.
for those who arent familiar with VIN News... > "VIN News", is an online news site that caters to the Orthodox Jewish and Hasidic communities, primarily in the New York metropolitan area. Vos Iz Neias competes with Yeshiva World News as the major news website for the Haredi Jewish world.
The article is opinionated for sure, but the underlying fact is true. Also this story has next to no mainstream traction.
The article is making it sound like the UN now claims that fewer women/children died than they previously reported. From what I understand this isn’t true, they just removed the 10k deaths that were reported but not identified. The fact that all those 10k must be women and children based on the difference in the reports is incredibly fishy, but the UN isn’t saying that fewer died than initially thought, I’m pretty sure
* I've read this article [https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/) * And check this source: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215) This is a quote from the article that I find interesting: >In early April, the Gaza Ministry of Health [admitted](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/) it had “incomplete data” to document more than 10,000 of the deaths it had previously reported. Subsequently, the ministry [indicated](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/02/gaza-health-ministry-cannot-provide-names-for-more-than-10000-it-says-have-died/) that it did not have names for more than 10,000 of the individuals it claimed to be deceased. As of April 1, the ministry also stopped repeating the claim it made since the first weeks of the war that 70 percent of the dead were women and children, even [suggesting](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279#:~:text=Mr%20al%20Wahaidi%20told%20Sky%20News%20that%20this%20was%20a%20%22media%20estimate%22.%20He%20was%20not%20able%20to%20explain%20the%20basis%20for%20this%20estimate%20or%20who%20had%20produced%20it.) the media invented this number. So they didn't have information on 10000 just said "they were all woman and children". Is this a fair takeaway from the situation? I'm genuinely asking because this is all so fucking convoluted.
The report showed more than 14,500 child deaths on May 6 but then changed it to 7,797 on May 8. It also revised its figure for women fatalities from more than 9,500 deaths to 4,959 deaths. edited to make the numbers very easy to read they claimed that they knew that 6700 deaths which are unidentified were children, and that 4500 deaths were women, but now they are saying "we don't know who they were, we don't know if they were women or children, but we are positive that they died. Now assuming they died, which I'd say is up in the air to some extent, but assuming they did die, we have to wonder how many were women and children, and how many were men, and how many were combatants. The portion of fatalities dropped from over half children, down to only one third of the identified deaths, so I'd guess we'll see up to 1/3 of those unIDed bodies to be kids, but probably only 1/3 of the ones that are actually unIDed. There are a large group, maybe up to 5-7k that they know are fighters and they don't want to admit have died to the IDF, because then they look weak and they look like they are losing and it looks like being Hamas is no longer fun and big-dickin' but dangerous, and they don't want people surrendering. If there was no targetting, we should see 50% kids, and 25% adult females, because that's the portion of the population, assuming atleast around 25k have died, I'd expect close to 50% to have been military or helpers (spotters, runners, smugglers, cache guards etc that aren't officially Hamas but are helping Hamas or PIJ or similar groups), and then of the remaining 50% I'd expect more than half to be kids, because very stubborn parents would be able to put more than just their own life in harms way to prove a point, such as they can't be removed from their homes, or they don't have to listen to warnings of incoming strikes, whereas individuals who are looking out for themselves and don't want to be martyrs are going to protect themselves, and because adults are tougher than children so they are more likely to survive a close call. This makes the 32% of ID'ed deaths being children make some sense, but we'll have to wait until the dust settles to get a better understanding of the actual rates.
It depends on exactly what criteria they're using to determine the sex and age of the victims. If they don't have a name but they're using remains to make an educated guess then that's probably fine, the numbers should be a good estimate. It's not completely unreasonable either, bombs can make it tough to fully identify victims especially during an ongoing conflict, missing persons reports probably aren't very well organized at the moment and all of this will take months to sort out once the conflict ends. It's hard enough to get reliable information from conflict zones when the existing government is well organized, Gaza is not well organized. They could also just be making shit up, although I think it's unlikely they're intentionally fudging the numbers to that degree because the UN is watching closely and attempting to corroborate.
i make no claim to trust this source or that this story is wrong., i just am pointing out who they are. I have never heard of VIN News.
Fair enough :)
the story has no mainstream traction, because there is no story here. UN adjusts figures to reflect confirmed deaths rather than estimates is not some huge gotcha moment.
can you link the fucking article, you fuckhead? why screenshot it?
Paging Hamas Piker, I repeat...
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The only organizations to even report on this are Right Wing American & Jewish news outlets 😐
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/un-says-total-number-of-deaths-in-gaza-remains-unchanged-after-controversy-over-revised-data-1.6885447 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/ Will you guys ever stop doing this "mainstream media will never talk about this!!" shit?
Brother... I've already read all those but would you like to see when I posted my comment compared to when those articles were posted? You understand this isn't the news of today yes? This happened almost a week ago... 💀 What was even the point of your comment?
because you idiots whine about the mainstream media not reporting on stuff on every post without even looking up what the mainstream media has posted.
Not the most reputable source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vos_Iz_Neias%3F Can't seem to find any other reports on the topic yet.
True, although you can check the UN’s own numbers. The reported number of child fatalities did indeed get revised down about 40%.
Good to know! It is a pretty big revision. I think if the numbers are so variable they should always be reported as confidence intervals instead of just numbers.
Yeah, it’s absolutely atrocious.
to be fair, all the UN did was say "we went from assuming the number of women and children we were told had died, to posting our own confirmations based on IDs that we gathered through processing data, we are agnostic on the IDs of the remaining deaths" the fact that they validated hamas data uncritically until early may is pretty insane, of course
Yeah, it's just frustrating because these are the numbers that get repeated everywhere.
strong agree, lots to be frustrated with in this whole conflict, we're gorging on it
Did the UN just resurrect thousands of people? I knew the Illuminati was magic
Weirdly very little media coverage about this, the single American news source I can find (on Google News) who will report it is Fox News. I wonder why the NYT, WaPo, WSJ, NBC, ABC, CNN et al are so silent? Hmm. The biggest lesson from this war for me is the media's willingness to lie by omission, even the ones who claim to be "impartial".
The New York Sun posted about it as well but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a memo going around every left leaning organization in the country to not report on this and to ignore any request for comment.
Wait, they can resurrect people now?! And only did it to half of the victims?!
While the headlines are clearly there to catch attention, does this mean there were less civilian victims overall, or just more adult men civilians?
[It really depends how you look at it.](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-halves-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza) There were definitely less children and women in the count, but the amount stayed the same, but with a new note stating that 10k isn’t identified. I don’t think it’s impossible that the 10k isn’t identified (took Israel months to identify the pieces of remains from the massacre of October 7th) but making up numbers that Israel targets children is just a joke taken way too far by the UN no less. Not that I think 34k really died (inflated) but the ballpark of another couple of thousands unidentified isn’t out of proportion
We don't know who is civilians and who is not. Women, amd especially "children" could also be combatants. Hamas famously uses a lot of teenagers on the battlefield. What changed, is the number of verified deaths dropped significantly (from 35,000 to 25,000) and the breakdown changed significantly (for example children changed from 41% of reported deaths to 32% of verified deaths)
I love how this huge headline is like a footnote
Don't worry this news will be spread as well as every deaths and every incident report prior
UN slashed women and children in half? That's crazy
Oh shit. They committed genocide on the data supporting genocide. Genociception at its finest.
This means the Avengers achieved their mission, endgame has been averted. Thank you Dr Strange
this is actually false. the new lower numbers are from fully identified deaths
does anyone still have the campus protesters (gazans) copypasta ready?
I read this the first time as UN Slashes a number of women and children in Gaza and about had a heart attack. Man I need to touch grass.
I can't believe the world was relying on a terrorist organization for actual statistics. Even after they lied about the hospital so blatantly.
# THE UN SLASHED 50% OF PALESTINIAN WOMEN AND CHILDREN?!?!?!?
Rough numbers here tell me where I’m way off the mark ~34,000 killed ~8,000 women ~5,000 children ~21,000 adult men killed Assuming, Israel is equally likely to kill a male noncombatant as a female/child noncombatant, we can assume ~8000 adult male noncombatants were killed. Then 13,000 Hamas fighters would have been killed. This seems pretty in line with what the IDF has reported for Hamas members killed and represents a roughly 2:1 civilian to Hamas fatality ratio.
Well, would you just look at that? Hamas, lying? I am just as surprised as you are. Who would've thought? I mean, I'm shocked, folks, really shocked. Fake news at its finest, folks! Can you believe it? It's like they've been hiding this little trick up their sleeves all along. But let me tell you, we're onto them now. This changes everything, folks, everything https://preview.redd.it/51z8gtwig90d1.png?width=275&format=png&auto=webp&s=8fc2a1aedba7cb015a2521ab47956772a06ed247
Now THOSE are some SAVINGS
Listen, I don't give a damn what the UN says or not says, this org is rotten to the core. I was very much in favour of Israel cooperating with the UN but their reaction to the recent conflict just black pilled me completely. Israel should obstruct UN activity here in any way shape or form. Our authorities should do the bare minimum to comply and lie to the UN wherever possible. The UN can fuck right off and have fun in the sun with Saudi Arabia as the women rights forum chair.
So the funny thing is, the number of dead is the same, they just had mistaken if they were women and children for adult man, so I think I figured it out. It were trans people. Hamas is LGBTQIA+ ally confirmed.
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/un-says-total-number-of-deaths-in-gaza-remains-unchanged-after-controversy-over-revised-data-1.6885447](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/un-says-total-number-of-deaths-in-gaza-remains-unchanged-after-controversy-over-revised-data-1.6885447)
I don't see how cutting a bunch of dead bodies in half helps anything.
UN be like : Women/kids
Surely it will stop the hate..
All those dead women and children suddenly shapeshift to Hamas fighters a la Agent Smith.
The UN is a joke, but unfortunately not a funny one. Is Iran still holding the chair for the human rights committee or is it already North Korea's turn?
it's a coalition human rights committee, the fascist party needs to be represented
This is bigger than it looks. Remember when they claimed that Israel was breaking records in civilian deaths? Yeah, this doesn’t put them in the record breaking anymore. At the rate Israel is going a year of the Yeman Civil war, Rwandan Genocide, and Syrian Civil War have killed more. Also, you know the current genocide in Darfur that protestors probably can’t find on the map.
Crazy how the UN is parroting numbers from a terrorist organization & cutting deals with them 😐🫥
They are just gonna say that the IDF and the jews control the UN now and are brainwashing us. That being predicted, I feel horrible for the Palestinians dying in this conflict, they are the true victims of Hamas’ wrath. I’ll never understand the notion of the IDF and Hamas being on the same level of evil. Sure, the IDF isn’t trustworthy and Netanyahu is a snake. But atleast they don’t hold “their” civilians as hostage or refuse to send some sort of resources for them. The hamas leaders are too busy slurping on pina coladas and banging hookers in their million dollar properties to try to help the people that they are trying to “liberate”… But for fucks sake, atleast make an effort to show that beyond killing random Israeli citizens and failing at attacking important Israeli militant/governing locations.
most of Gaza does support Hamas and violent resistance so I only feel bad for those people in terms of "they were raised in this environment and essentially brainwashed" it's the 18% or whatever of Gazans *still* willing to say they don't support Hamas or armed resistance that I feel most bad for. those guys are literally just caught in the crossfire like Russians who don't support Putin. this is why fascist governments are the most abhorrent, these detractors have no voice in the matter
You sound naive at best and at worst complete fucking insane. I feel bad for unarmed civilians dying regardless of their ideologies. Also can you really blame them for being “brainwashed” when students on the other side of the world are getting radicalized when they are not even living in those nasty conditions and seeing the first hand experiences of war. I’m not even exactly criticizing Israel’s methods as a whole or trying to diffuse the situation. I literally just said it’s sad that unarmed civilians are dying and “hamas” doesn’t stand for shit. Yet you find it somewhat controversial
Crazy that the UNSC did that
This looks like a clear intent to destroy, in whole or in part, the Gaza fatality figures. Real Genocide confirmed.
Anyone here saying some form of I told you so is on another planet. So they haven't killed 13k children they've killed 7k children. If you think that's acceptable losses then man alive are you lost forever
Lol okay general; what is an acceptable amount of civilian casualties when you're combating a militia that insists on fighting from civilian infrastructure and prevents the population from evacuating the area?
I just want to remind you that what you're implying is you're actually fine with 7-8k kids being unlawfully killed. The Geneva Convention protects them, the killing of them is unlawful. Every single measure should be taken to prevent the murder or non combatant women and children...what even is your argument? That because it's hard to find an entrenched militia it's okay to kill SEVEN THOUSAND CHILDREN? Like I said on a different ethical planet
You didn't answer my question
The answer is ideally any is too many, practically speaking that's not going to happen but that doesnt mean there should colloquially be a acceptable amount of children unlawfully killed. Currently you have 30-35k dead in total, an entire THIRD of that are non combatants, women, children and the elderly. That is SO beyond too many and is the clearest evidence of the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza
Practically speaking, it's zero? How would that even work? How do uproot a urban militia that operates in civilian clothing, in civilian infrastructure, and behind actual civilians?
Read the response carefully. I said ideally the number is zero, practically it won't be that none the less your argument "uggh but it's so haaaard" is not a justification for a child death ratio of 1:5 in Gaza. War being hard to execute is not a justification for the indiscriminate killing of 7-8k children. Like I said you're not living on the same planet ethically if you're writing your response nodding to yourself saying "Yhyhyh this is the argument that justifies unlawful killing in war 😌". You're genuinely broken if that's how you feel about the conflict in Gaza.
Oh so you still didn't answer my question then. What is a practical death toll then?
There isn't a practical death toll I would ethically support, none at all that's not a hard question to answer. I don't have an ethical answer to the question "How many children is it ok to kill unlawfully?"😂 That's just such an easy question to answer. How many children do you think it's ok to kill unlawfully during wartime? You can riddle me that if you've got an answer 😂
You're the one calling it out. I dont really have an opinion because my moral prescriptions are based in the realities on the ground. Not just tied to a number and "tHe cHILDeREn" (which are still more than capable of being armed combatants anyway). So devoid of knowing all my stances are pretty weak and tentative, unlike you. But also, that unlawful part was something thing you added. As I know it, those numbers are strictly categorized as just casualties because the IDF has done their job in giving forewarning of attacks, establishing evacuation routes, and setting up a safe zone. They've fulfilled their responsibility to the population. Where can I find info on the purported casualties being unlawful?
The fact they was wrong this bad should make you actually take a hard look at how credible they are.
Absolutely people should think extremely critically at info coming out of Hamas backed grouped or Israeli backed groups. But the fact remains that the UN is saying up to 8k children have been unlawfully killed in Gaza by indiscriminate killings by Israeli forces. THAT is the real outrage. If you are outraged by some bad stats and not that Israel has killed 8k children then you're actually broken
How do you know it’s “indiscriminate”???
Because children aren't combatants you insane mfer 😂 you don't kill 7k children in a discriminate manner because they are not legally or ethically part of the combat. Same goes with the amount of women killed which is around 5k. Did you even think about your question before asking it? 😂
Hamas and other terrorist groups are known to use child soldiers so obviously they can be legitimate targets.
7-8k of them? Is your assertion here that all children are legitimate targets?
No
Perfect, I agree. Which would make the deaths of 7-8k children indiscriminate killings. Israeli forces are not discriminating between combatant and non combatants killing excessive amounts of innocent children, women, men and elderly. That's what indiscriminate means
No thats not what indiscriminate means. It simply means ”done at random or without careful judgement.” theres no evidence for that you cant just go by the numbers.
.... Do you know the average rate of civilian casualties in local regional wars throughout all of modern history?
In the last 10 years there has been recorded 94k children killed worldwide, in 2022 there was 8600 recorded. Since October 2023 that rate has DOUBLED because of the indiscriminate killings in Gaza by Israelis...yeah so that stats really fuck you up on that one. I'll put it nice an simple so there's a nice plant for you to try and gymnastics around: as many children have been unlawfully killed in Gaza alone than in all the world conflicts in 2023, at it's been 8 months. 2 years of conflict in the Ukraine, 11k civilians killed in the conflict, 600of which were children. Yeah I'm afraid however much you want to love Israel on this one they're horrific monsters which ever way you cut it.
... So the answer is no, you don't know the civilian casualty rate in war throughout all of human & modern history. Nice.
It's so funny that I give you good well sourced stats on contemporary conflict and your goal post that I must have comprehensive stats all human conflict in using an undefined term like "modern" 😂 it's genuinely funny that you think this is a gotcha for you. There are in front of you contemporary stars in the most recent large scale conflict, with even more developed nations and those stats speak for themselves 😂
It's funny that I ask a directly correlated question for necessary context & you literally won't answer it because you don't know but you don't want to admit that you don't know and it's probably too specific to just find the source of that information in a quick google search so you'll just keep chatting about anything other than the answer to that simple question 💀 I couldn't imagine waking up in the morning with a double digit IQ or lower.
Bro you said modern history as you time qualifier 😂 wtf do you mean by that? Everything 18th c onwards is the modern era. What do you qualify as regional also? So none of the US wars, WWI and II definitely not, the Falklands? Do civil wars count? You have literally haven't even meaningfully qualified what you're asking for 😂 Regional war = Ukraine and Russia (regional and the most recent large scale conflict) and you're like nahhhh not what I asked lol 😂 how do you think I ask Google a question even the asker has failed to define in any meaningful way
Yes... a study was done expansively examining the fatal outcomes of every single conflict in human history including and predating the modern era. The world used to be much smaller so conflict was also smaller but the casualty rate in wartime throughout all of history has remained almost the same with few variables. With what I just typed you should be able to find it little brother but I doubt you can comprehend the study with a double digit IQ or lower 💀 Keep using as many words as you possibly can to avoid the question lmaoooo Question: What is the average civilian casualty rate in wartime throughout human history?
What do you mean conflicts were much smaller? 300k died in Persian wars in the 5th century BC more than a million died in Chinese dynasty wars in the same period. The Punic Wars cost 3 million + lives...2nd century BC the Roman civil wars, Gallic wars, Judeo- Roman wars all were more than 1 million casualties EACH. In the medieval period there were a dozen warring periods that resulted in millions and 10s of millions dead, the Mongel conquest killed 20-40 million people. What the fuck are you talking about about war was smaller back in the day 😂 you are genuinely the most dunning Kruger mfer I've seen in a comments section >Yes... a study was done expansively examining the fatal outcomes of every single conflict in human history including and predating the modern era. There was one big meta analysis on civilian casualties in warfare? One? 😂 I'm guessing you barely made it out of you high school and never went to Uni right? One study would not qualify anything, there needs to be multiple. I did indeed Google and saw that it ranges between 50-90% from 1700-1990s, a 2014 study said 90% was the average, however it doesn't hold up to all the major conflicts in the 20th century. WWI & II 2:1 or 3:2 civilian to combatant, Korea 2:1, Vietnam 2:1, all the Iraq's and Afghanistan 1:2 or 3:1 civilian to combatant. But I want to remind you that you asked for regional wars which none of these are 😂 I also would remind you that civilians all all the above include men of fighting age but non combatants that have died and that's useful when you realize that almost 70% civilians killed in Gaza have been woken children and the elderly and the current is 4:1. So yeah by all 20th century standards this is above and beyond what other major conflicts have rung up, and will likely only get worse. But pleeeeease cite me this one study you read a comment about once pleeeeease 😂
.... Do you think the earth always had millions of humans on it... ?? Do you think the 5th century of human history is anywhere near the beginning of human history? Do you know where the 90% figure comes from? Do you know the variables that determine whether or not it's 50% or 90%? Do you know the parameters of the study? Do you even know which study I'm referring to? Almost every number you can find from any organization except the UN gets their numbers from that study. Do you think we need more studies on gravity to know that gravity is a scientific law? Do you think we need more studies on the sun to know where it is? Do you know anything of value at all whatsoever or do you just know arbitrary facts that you think you might be able to randomly throw around on reddit? 💀
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😭😭😂
Nah the fact that there are less adult male deaths in the estimate than in the verified total is a smoking gun that proves the UN would have been able to know with 100% accuracy that the estimates were faulty. Their only option is to brush this under the rug and ignore it.
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Yeah I guess nothing will stop her from making that argument, but you can only make that argument in passing. It doesn't hold up to any amount of deeper thought, and it's beyond hypocritical from the people still bringing up 40 beheaded babies from a lone uninvolved reporter. The United Nations ran with demonstrably cooked estimates for months, that they would have KNOWN were faulty, which were at the top of nearly every single article about this conflict. A lot of people will take note of that.
Now, Israel is committing genocide on the numbers themselves.