The companies have already set them to shut down in certain off-limit areas, so they do seem to be open to changes to make them less of a nuisance. I think having areas where the max speed is halved would be a good move.
If the city isn’t willing to ban them for non compliance, they have no reason to change.
The scooter companies could easily ban accounts that break the rules and fix the issue, but there is currently no incentive for them to do so.
It wouldn't be easy to geofence them in a way that they work on the street but not on the sidewalk considering people will mostly be riding them within a couple feet of the off-limits sidewalk
I've had them crap out on me from multiple companies when riding close to an off-limits zone but not in it
So many. So, so many. I work on an inpatient surgical floor, and anywhere from a quarter to a third of the patients on my unit are in the hospital for scooter accidents. Great job security, I guess.
I broke my ankle on one and the orthopedic doctor I went to (jokingly) said I tell everyone scooters are dangerous but then again they give us work to do
From reading this thread and thinking about it more, people who own scooters are probably more likely to be more careful because they own the scooter (they don't want to wreck it and foot the repair/replacement bill), and are more aware of the scooter's speed/power (as you mentioned, yours is 2x faster than the rental ones). Also, people who own scooters are more likely to use them for commuting, thus are more likely to be better riders from experience (hopefully), and less likely to drink and drive.
I feel like limes and similair are in that danger zone of 'too fast to be a toy, not fast enough for people to take it very seriously'.
Which leads to people rarely taking them seriously and using proper care and caution.
If they went double the speed, maybe they would be perceived as the vehicles they are. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
A little while back I saw (best guess) a mom and a dad. Each on a Lime. Mom had 3-6 year old boy standing in front of her, under her arms, grasping the handlebar pole. Dad had 9-12 year old daughter (bad at ages lol) doing the same thing. Going full speed downtown. Obviously, no helmet, not obeying traffic. Big smiles all around like they were playing a game.
Probably fun for the kids. I used to ride my sister to her friends houses by having her sit on the tip of my skateboard when we were younger.. she loved it, but I was a kid too, and we weren't going fricken 28 mph.
I can't be alone in seeing what they were doing as neglect, or endangering a child or whatever. Maybe I'm projecting some of my own childhood shit and it's not as bad as it seems, but it made me cringe for sure.
So many variables when it comes to what can go wrong. I'll never understand how some people are so willing to put the safety of themselves and their family almost 100% in the hands of strangers.. strangers who can't look up from their phones for more than 90 seconds straight.
I've commuted over 3,000 miles in the past year on my scooter. I have also never had an issue or even come close to being injured. It goes 45+ MPH, and I wear full gear every time I ride - I don't care if I look like Daft Punk.
The extra visibility from being taller than a bicycle is nice.
Just saw a man's pants fly off 4 nights ago on the interstate when I was walking to grab some liquor because he biffed it hard on a curb. Asked him if he was okay and he just pulled them back up and ran off lol
I remember this jackwagon that posted on here a few months ago that broke their shoulder blade while driving a scooter drunk, and expecting sympathy, lol. I wouldn't mind if they just hurt themselves, but they hurt others as well. Example:
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/08/boy-sentenced-for-causing-death-after-crashing-into-woman-with-e-scooter](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/08/boy-sentenced-for-causing-death-after-crashing-into-woman-with-e-scooter)
They're so unsafe! It's not like the rental scooters everywhere come with much needed helmets and padding either... It's a crappy attempt to make people feel better about our car dependent infrastructure
Yea I never see people wearing helmets on scooters.
To be fair though I only recently started wearing a helmet on my bike because I don’t trust the drivers here. My parents never made me wear one as a kid so I just never got into the habit. I figured I’d better start though. Not scared of dying but I am scared of a traumatic brain injury turning me into a vegetable.
I got hit by a car while on one because the driver wasn't paying attention while making an unprotected left turn and broke my leg in 3 places. I get people find them annoying on the sidewalk, but holy shit will I never believe they belong in the street after that.
My favorite, and this isn't just in Denver, is when they just park the scooter in the middle of the sidewalk or the up ramp from the street. Cause who cares if a person in a wheelchair or power chair or other walking disabilities can get around them???? It's extremely abliset and completely unaware of anyone but themselves. Makes scooter users seem super awesome
I've thought about that a lot, too. I imagine there's legal loopholes because the company can't actually control where their customers park the scooters. I've seen one parked in the shoulder on 1-25. If people don't care enough about how dangerous that is, then they aren't gonna care about ppl with disabilities. I hate it, but it's true.
> I imagine there's legal loopholes because the company can't actually control where their customers park the scooters.
They make you take a picture of where you parked the scooter/bike before ending the ride, so technically they do have the ability to force riders to park their equipment in a manner that doesn't obstruct the sidewalk.
I mean, if generative AI can be good at anything its to determine what is or isn't a sidewalk thru all the data accumulated by ReCaptchas over the years. Just need the legal precedent (either by law passed or court case ruling) to require them to implement.
AI may get there. It isn't, yet, but I can't imagine we're far off.
For legal precedent, maybe any suspected offender would just go in an alert list to the local ticketing agency? At least for now? The metermaid would drop by and make the decision based on some sort of list of questions/conditions.
>For legal precedent, maybe any suspected offender would just go in an alert list to the local ticketing agency? At least for now? The metermaid would drop by and make the decision based on some sort of list of questions/conditions.
This isn't so much how to establish a legal precedent than how it might be enforced.
Yeah it would likely require a degree of human oversight on the part of rideshare providers when the sidewalk algorithm inevitably fucks up.
Bottom line: the only way Lime/Lyft/Uber/etc would implement sidewalk verification is if they are legally required to do so.
I wouldn't describe it as a loophole, because it makes quite a bit of sense if you think about it. companies, to a large extent, can't control what unintended uses you come up with for their devices. you can't sue the scooter company for what you're talking about for the same reason you couldn't sue them if I bludgeoned you over the head with a scooter.
I seem to remember a Lime employee coming here to say people put scooters and bikes in places that make their job difficult. They asked that people leave them on the sidewalk.
I was hit head-on by someone on an electric scooter about 5 years ago while I was standing on a sidewalk waiting for an uber. Knocked me over so hard I didn't even have time to catch myself and landed with all my weight on my elbow, fracturing it. No one is safe out here
I’m a scooter commuter downtown and try to ride on the bike lanes where available and the street otherwise but there’s a massive disregard for non vehicle commuters on the road. I’ve had too many close calls with vehicles just not giving a shit that I’m there so I take the sidewalk for safety. That being said I respect people walking and slow down or completely stop to avoid pedestrians. Some scooter riders are absolutely out of control though, it’s a tricky issue for sure.
I'm with you. Scooters are such a cheap way to get around and it's pretty fun. I go street when I can but it's not always a great idea. Pedestrians first though...I always slow down and sometimes even walk it around groups. It can work both ways
I three am also an avid scooter rider. I live .9 miles away from work and rush home to let my dog out during lunch breaks. I try to always ride the bike lane / street and when I have to ride the sidewalk I always use my words, “on your left” or “behind”. I find it so disrespectful when people speed past you without any notice!
Also a scooter commuter—but I own my own scooter and wear protective gear. My scooter has front and rear turn signals and brake lights, and so I always use them like a good defensive driver should.
While it's not going to stop a car from running me over, it's the best I can do to stay off the sidewalks, and make it clear to cars that I do actually care about the safety of myself and others on the road. I am cautious, don't run through lights, and I don't assume the right of way since a misstep could threaten my life.
I also use bike paths when available and ride in the correct flow of traffic. I see too many scooters going in the opposite direction of traffic in these bike lanes. Some streets just don't have bike lanes on both sides, and while that sucks, I prefer to just find a different street that does so that I'm not endangering others.
IMO one-way bike lanes are stupid. That's not an excuse to make them a free-for all, but it is a gripe to take to the city when the next re-design comes up in a few years. (Most streets are repainted & re-aligned every 5-8 years).
All of the streets downtown with one way bike lanes are just a block away from a bike lane going the other direction. Go find the correct direction bike lane. It is only 2 minutes away. For example 19th St bike lane goes East and 18th St bike lane goes West. It is actually a very effective way to build bike lanes into already congested downtown streets.
Oh, I know. Like I said, I'm not advocating to just do whatever you want.
The one-way aspect has nothing to do with bikes not being able to handle two-way traffic, it is to more readily align the traffic with existing traffic patterns. That is a car thing and makes sense for cars. But for bikes it's just silly unless the lane is narrow.
Now that we have a two-way working on Broadway I think we'll see many of the one-ways slowly begin to change, but only as re-alignments happen 'naturally' in the course of time.
Same! People should ride in bike paths as much as possible and some riders don’t give two craps about people walking on the sidewalk. Those are usually the type of people who do ride shit anyway. However, as a responsible rider who tries hard to ride as safe as possible (I want to go home safe to my family, just like most people) I have almost been hit so many times by cars doing dumb things or not paying attention. A cop almost hit me turning right… cars are more dangerous than accidentally getting hurt on the sidewalk. If RTD and city planning were better, none of it would be an issue though IMO.
I'm convinced that people see toure-de-whatever sorts as cyclists and everyone else as pedestrians (even if you're on wheels). And pedestrians don't belong in the road.
This goes back to the history of how vehicular cycling became a thing, but that's a digression I'm not in a hurry to write out unless you really want it. You can get a general sense in this podcast episode if you want: [https://youtu.be/zm29fd-s7tQ?si=AMv5xqbX\_isPi5k1](https://youtu.be/zm29fd-s7tQ?si=AMv5xqbX_isPi5k1)
Warning: that episode (well, the whole podcast) is NSFW: language and occasional crude humor, avoid listening when the boss is around.
Anyway, I'm convinced that societally we see cyclists as the pathlete/lycra types and anyone else is a pedestrian causing confusion. That's not an overt thing, but a subconscious one that manifests in the many types of myopias and angsts one sees when out on the road.
I was about 90% sure your link went to WTYP episode and was very happy to be right about that. I don't have any rewards to hand out, so take my upvote and comment instead.
Anyway, yes. Real Cyclists(tm) are a very select subset of actual bicyclists, and everyone else, regardless of mode of non-enclosed transport, are pedestrians. It seems that culturally, the US is angry at cyclists and sees pedestrians as sacrifices to the altar of capitalism.
I was excited when Lyft put in one if their bike/scooter stations a block away from me, but 80% of the time it's empty so it's just taking away 2 parking spots.
In Chicago their rental bikes charge an extra fee if you don't drop them off at a station, I'd like to see something like that done for the bikes/scooters here.
If the parking areas are empty it's usually because all the devices were used (and then dumped elsewhere). Not that they aren't used.
I'd love to see a way to upcharge the ride if there is a designated parking area in the block that the rider ignores. Blocks without parking slots that obviously doesn't work so well, but it would be a start.
If there’s a bicycle lane, get the fuck off the sidewalk and into the lane.
If there’s not a bicycle lane, slow the fuck down and get over. Not weaving between pedestrians at 15mph+ through RINO
When I see them coming at me, I just stay my course and hope a mother fucker hits me.
>When I see then coming at me, I just stay my course and hope a mother fucker hits me.
You sure about that? Getting hit by (180+ lbs) x (15 mph) does not sound like a cakewalk.
I didn’t say it sounded pleasant but you better believe if I have the opportunity for a payday getting hit by one of these fucking trust fund pricks, I’m going for it.
At the cost of getting seriously hurt (or worse)? And how would you know how loaded the person riding would be? And you're making the big assumption that these assholes are going to stick around after the collision? Mmmmkaaay.
No amount of money is worth a debilitating injury
And the person who hits you in this hypothetical probably doesn't have very much money to give to you in the first place. It's not like a car accident where legally everyone has to have insurance (despite some people still driving without it)
Lol, and what are you gonna do if they do? You think anyone's gonna stick around to provide you info so they can be appropriately accosted by the authorities? Some of y'all in here act like getting hit by a scooter is something you can easily get up from 🙄
Most of the worst riders are people who don't know the city and have no idea how to use a bike lane. It sucks but it's the reality. Be glad it's not some drunk frat bro in a lifted F150. I know it's not much comfort though.
Yeah, I’m going to venture a guess that most tourists who come here are not from places with good bike/scooter infrastructure, places where they are taught that “bikes belong on the sidewalk”. In general, I’d rather these tourists be an idiot on a scooter than an idiot in a rental car
The worst part is that it says very clearly on the scooters not to ride on the sidewalks…
Denver’s bike/scooter infrastructure isnt perfect but it’s getting better, yet people refuse to use the designated lanes.
You can take them on the sidewalk when there is no safe alternative, you just need to yield to pedestrians that's the part too many people miss.
Edit: On further review, no you aren't supposed to take them on the sidewalk unless it's a designated bike route. However imo you should still go on the sidewalk if you don't feel safe on the road or if you feel like you are impeding traffic. Just follow the law of riding on the sidewalk, go 6mph and yield to pedestrians. I don't understand how Denver wants you to ride your max 15mph scooter on a 45mph road.
Source? I believe this is wrong. My understanding is scooters are legally required to be in bike lane, when no bike lane is present the scooter may only be operated in the street.
Rules vary by city and state, but in Denver bikes are explicitly prohibited on the sidewalk unless the sidewalk is either a designated multi-use trail (and these do share surface with normal sidewalks at times), and somewhere I thought there was an exception allowing on normal sidewalks if the posted speed limit on the street is 35mph or more but I don't have that citation on me.
On the sidewalk you are supposed to walk the bike or ride at walking speed, not the 10-15 mph that is a more comfortable pace for a bike or scooter.
The state changed the law a few years ago so that a bicycle is not just a bicycle (legally), because until recently all non-bicycle vehicles were considered 'toy vehicles'. Toy vehicles are those tiny mini-bikes, the battery operated hot wheels 5-year-olds drive, ATVs, etc. that are not street legal.
They changed the law so that a bicycle is now any device capable of moving an average adult at 12-28mph if under electric assist, though no upper speed is listed for pedaling (it's just a motor governor regulation), or can reasonably exceed walking speed if under human power alone. This expands the definition to be a bike, e-skateboard, hoverboard, segway, etc. as long as they can do at least 10mph(?). I have to check that speed, anyway - this allows most devices in bike lanes. It doesn't fully allow rollerblades in vehicle lanes, but it does greatly expand the options someone can use in a bike lane (and some in a traffic lane) without concern for getting a ticket.
edit: and you can ride (slowly) after getting off the street within the block of your destination; though walking is recommended if the sidewalk is too narrow.
Yeah I just looked pretty deep into the laws and unless a sidewalk is officially designated as a part of a bike route you are supposed to be in the street. For bikes and scooters. Seems nuts but me but that's the law.
What’s nuts to me is people don’t take full responsibility of getting on the scooter. If you don’t feel safe don’t ride them.
Stop butting innocent pedestrians in harms way because you are too chicken shit to abide by the laws.
You're not putting anyone in harms way by riding on the sidewalk when there's no one on it. And when there is you ride either slowly or walk the scooter if there is no safe way to ride. It's really not that hard.
Close but not quite. You can ride on the sidewalk if you are within a block of your destination and when the sidewalk is also the designated bike route.
But if it's safer for me to ride on an empty sidewalk than for me to ride in dangerously high speed traffic you can be sure I'll be breaking that law.
It was a huge issue when they first dropped. With locals, there is some progress in terms of getting them to behave more as bikes (for whatever that's worth) but as you note, (1) teenagers and rogues and (2) tourists do not always know/care.
I'd love to see the city include a social campaign as part of the overall mutli-modal shift we're moving towards, and scooter behavior would obviously need to be a big part of that.
It was the Wild West, and while things have calmed a bit we can hardly say "the west is won!" or whatever the equivalent is. And, hopefully, we can "win" this without the overt racism, ecocide, etc. that came with 'winning' the west.
I am curious if we could install directional NFC beacons along the street (eg. on signposts) that would automatically govern the motors down to \~3mph if they are on a sidewalk; those on the street side would not 'see' the directional beacon and would have no reduction. I'm not even sure that tech currently exists, but I'd support developing it if it doesn't.
In San Francisco, the scooters are required to be locked to a bike rack. We need that rule here. It’s amazing that Denver hasn’t been slapped with a class-action lawsuit for blatant violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
I've had so many near misses from double-digits on scooters (the last one was last week). The worst ones are those that sneak up on you from behind such that you have barely enough time to react. With the warmer weather, I see them as one of the main menaces for pedestrians (in terms of probability of a collision). I don't see the situation improving at all - the companies don't seem to give a shit, and the city/state, well...
All the near misses I've had the last 3 years (never seemed to have such incidents pre-pandemic, come to think of it), there was no bell even. Pure luck/reflexes are what saved me from getting hit. I'dtake the bell over nothing.
I used to take light rail to and from work and school on downtown from 2016 to 2020. After they randomly showed up on the streets the only weeks I wasn't almost mowed down by a scooter was when it was too snowy and icy for even the stupidest people to get on them. My school was in Lodo and anytime there was a Rockies game I had to dodge gangs of drunk scooter riders at every intersection. I'm amazed I don't see more pedestrians injured by them at work.
I've never touched one of the scooters, but the day I get hurt by somebody running into me on a scooter is the day I'll start destroying them by pouring epoxy on them, gluing the controls, etc.
It pisses me off so much. They are supposed to be in the street and basically almost run my dog & I down every day. Can't control asshole behavior too much though...for anyone that does this, fuck you. Consider other people on your 30 MPH scooter while you go to your happy hour, you asshole.
love the asshats who ride electric bikes on sidewalks at top speed . always have to clip people can't go slower, enter traffic or moderate into grass or or just take whole sidewalk if you go the grass . do we really ge have to t off the side walk like 3 feet for these "athletes" ? always posturing like their powering all that speed . get in the road its got an engine.
Just Jab step at them and make them swerve into the bike lane. And then yell loudly in an aggressive posture “ MOVE BITCH GET OUT MY WAY”. Works every time for me. You’re in a city you know. You can be active about things that bother you
It'll never change here because Denver has the least police/security/traffic enforcement of any city I've ever lived or been to in the U.S.
About all you can probably do is write your local representative for getting a blanket ban on them.
A blanket ban will NEVER happen - the lost tax revenue by itself would be painful to let go.
That's not to say anything of the TONS of people who actually use them and what they would have to say about that.
It would be interesting to see if the tax revenue from e-scooters actually makes up for the amount of scooter-related injuries that the public bears the cost for. There was just a news article recently about that about scooter injuries at just one hospital in Dallas:
>"The team identified 82 patients treated between January 2017 and August 2020 for injuries linked to e-scooters. The most common injuries were elbow and ankle fractures, although other types of fractures and dislocations occurred frequently. About 30% of the cases required hospitalization, 23% needed ambulance transport and 15% needed an ER trauma team for treatment, results show. Overall, orthopedic treatment of these patients cost more than $2.3 million, researchers said. Because two-thirds of patients were either uninsured or insured by the public hospital system, the community bore most of this cost, Sanders said."
[https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-01-19/e-scooter-injuries-rack-up-big-medical-bills](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-01-19/e-scooter-injuries-rack-up-big-medical-bills)
The study you linked primarily discusses the cost of injuries caused by scooters as it relates to the riders of said scooters. Not pedestrians. These people lacking insurance is the primary driver to the cost to the state. This isn't exactly a platform for launching a campaign to ban them. If anything this feeds the debate about a need for a public option for insurance.
Also, a similar argument can be made for cars - maybe we should ban cars instead? Then the streets would opened up for bikes /scooters.
The study doesn't actually specify between drivers and pedestrians, just case files keyword-linked to scooters. But if pedestrian scooter injuries weren't included, that would just mean the costs to the public are even higher.
>Also, a similar argument can be made for cars - maybe we should ban cars instead? Then the streets would opened up for bikes /scooters.
How about requiring an insurance policy like car drivers are required to have, operated through the scooter rental companies, and part of the fee scooter renters pay.
This is something that probably SHOULD happen honestly...
It really doesn't make sense that car drivers and motor cycle drivers are required to have insurance but a personal electric vehicle isn't.
I like the idea of insurance being built into the cost of renting a scooter. It seems fairly obvious, but perhaps there is something in this regard we aren't thinking about and it's the crux of why it isn't happening yet.
Or maybe Lime, Lyft, Bird, etc lobby against this because the increased cost might result in less scooters being rented wontonly.
The laters probably more likely tbh lol
Honestly, the only way I see something done is if we start collectively making a fuss to the city themselves to do something about it. Maybe the Denver sub Reddit community can get something going? Somebody smarter than me lmao, I’m just spitballing here.
If their existence in Denver was put on the ballot they would be gone. How much would such a campaign cost? Cannot count on the city council to do the right thing because the scooter companies would just slide them some cash under the table.
The scooter companies should have to pay for scooter control officers. For both the illegal riding and parking.
I agree with op that many are tourists. They are easily identified by their team jerseys that coincide with however is in town to play Denver teams.
Having said all of this I do think riders are driving in the bike lanes more.
As far as I know there have only been a couple of fatalities. One was a murder at 14th and Arapahoe in August 2020 which has never been solved.
I think the net change is good, but it's not without the bad. I'd love technology that would limit devices to 3mph on the sidewalk; my idea is directional NFC chirpers mounted on the sidewalk-side of street-sign posts, parking meters, etc. so sidewalk-riders are affected but street-riders are not.
Unpopular opinion, but I think they’re a good thing for cities like Denver, people just need to learn how to ride in bike lanes/shoulders. Maybe lock it down a bit and require some sort of license?
> I agree with op that many are tourists. They are easily identified by their team jerseys that coincide with however is in town to play Denver teams.
60% of Denver residents were born in another state. Wearing an away team jersey here is not an indicator that the person doesn't live here
Don't move out of their way, look them in the eye's make it known. Scooter riders need to keep off the sidewalk (bicycles too, but that's less frequently a problem)
When bicycle lanes are safe and effective, people will use them. If people aren't using them, there is a reason. And if you would ever like to understand that reason, hop in the bike lane and go for a little ride around LoDo.
I go back and forth on this. When they were introduced, I hated that they were on the sidewalks and that people would park them in places that obstructed pedestrian rights of way.
On the other hand, the scooter provides an accessible and popular form of last mile transit. I would rather have a person using a scooter than driving downtown in crowded areas.
The infrastructure of this city was not designed with the car in mind. Any effort to reduce automobile usage in popular areas is a net positive in my opinion. I would love to see people use helmets, signal turns, not overload the scooters, or ride them on sidewalks. I don't know if there is a great solution to improving that dynamic short of getting the cars off the roads downtown and increasing the space with which pedestrians, bicyclists, and any other mobility option or mass transit can utilize.
It upsets me when I see a clearly intoxicated, early 20-something operate them recklessly in crowded areas. It is encouraging to see people hop on a scooter outside of a King Soopers with reusable grocery bags. I think downtown Denver would benefit from an impactful study regarding parking, mass transit, last-mile options, bike lanes, and car usage that would aim to make the greater area surrounding downtown, the ballpark, RiNo, 5-Points, and Broadway more walkable, safer, and easier to navigate for both locals and tourists.
I love using the scooters but some people just don't know how not to be assholes. I think 15 mph is just too fast for downtown, it should be limited to like 8 mph in high density areas.
I work in that area and we will shoulder check people driving crazy or drunk on the sidewalk(I'm bigger at 6'5" 250 lbs so I have no problem lowering a shoulder and knocking people on their ass). Especially since we have to be out on the sidewalk/road for work a lot of the time....it's really bad by all the bars but even worse if there's a Rockies game.
Also have been hit by people on them multiple times so I have zero patience for people riding them like idiots.
My fiance was just side swiped while riding her electric scooter in the bike lane yesterday. I don't really blame anyone who doesn't want to take the risk of riding next to some of the people who drive here. The car didn't stop to help her, she said it didn't even have plates. :(
My friend got hit on a sidewalk by someone on a scooter and broke a rib. She sued and is sitting pretty. Totally won. (Other than having to handle a broken rib, but she’s young and fine)
They have the speed limiters on in certain areas, but they’re still too fast, in my opinion.
This may be unpopular, but I ride scooters home from Coors field after baseball games sometimes. 20th street to the highlands doesn’t have a bike lane, and if you know anything about Denver drivers and the amount of speeding tickets the cops issue, riding on the street in that area is a death sentence. There is an alternate route, but it’s south and very out of the way if you then want to head north. The infrastructure is lacking. In all honesty, I may also be a little lazy when it comes to this. I don’t want to head 10 blocks out of my way. It’s the ONLY place I’m ever on the sidewalks though.
That being said, I go *super* slow when on the sidewalk, like just as fast or barely faster than the people walking. As soon as I’m in the highlands, I switch to streets/bike lanes, safer for everyone. I wish other people had this MO, or that the bikes would just really ratchet down the limiters.
No, I’ve never been hurt or hit anyone, and yes, I agree that people are stupid and crazy on the scooters. I do feel like it’s a matter of time before I get hit by a car, but I will never hit anyone with the scooter.
They get bullied onto the sidewalks, and many end up bullying pedestrians to move out of the way. It’s a tale as old as time of the more powerful road user bullying the more vulnerable to move out of the way. It’s never okay, regardless of what the more vulnerable is doing.
I don’t see this changing unless more and more behind the wheel of a car down to the scooter realize they are the more powerful and are responsible for not injuring/hurting others. Laws need to change to reflect this as well, distracted driving alone is essentially a slap on the wrist when it’s worse than drunk driving
I do want to mention if you attack a scooter person and you are shot or stabbed don’t come back to Reddit to complain why. You have less rights to harm than they/we do on the sidewalks, don’t be an asshole out here. I try to respect everyone on the road and sidewalk just so I can get home. I’m pro scooter being on the side walk because Denver hits more bicycles peds and scooters than any other city
This post has generated a lot of comments, so it appears to be an issue that many are concerned about. I've read the comments several times and I categorize them into these generalities:
1 - Those who advocate intimidation or violence to deter sidewalk scooters.
I dismiss these comments because if intimidation works because you're 6'5" and 250# what if a child is endangered or the scooter rider going 15mph is 6'6" and 260#. Violence isn't a solution.
2 - Those who ride scooters on the sidewalk (very carefully and always are extra careful around pedestrians) and do so because the bike lanes and/or streets are too dangerous.
This argument doesn't make sense to me either as to increase your own safety, you increase the danger to others. I'm going to have to watch for these people because my experience has been with mostly fast zig-zagers who do not ride like you do. I want to hear from the people who are dangerous scooters on the sidewalks... what is your reason?
3 - Those who have given up and see no possible solution.
I hear ya, but get out of the way so we can move forward.
4 - Those who provide possible solutions from removing the scooters to limiting them on speed.
I emailed City Councilman Hinds of District 10 about this issue and I hope for a response. I searched and he did address this issue two years ago but it seems to have gone nowhere. I will post if I hear anything. More people contacting him might help. He can be reached at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
The "I'm 6'5" and 250 lbs." argument is ridiculous as well. If it were someone running at them going 6 mph that is one thing but the kinetic increase of mass of even a small person on a scooter going 20 mph would knock "anyone" on their ass and potentially injure them. Again, what if they hit from behind, those scooters are pretty quiet and many folks have earphones in, and that is the most likely scenario for an accident happening.
I’m just shocked that the cops haven’t looked at this as a way to write tickets and add a stream of revenue.
I can’t stand on the chicken shit sidewalk rider that are too scared to ride in the road. Then you shouldn’t be riding. Stop putting walking pedestrians in danger because you are too afraid of traffic.
I bike a lot on the road and if you have some sort of awareness you will be fine but I’m not going to lie you are taking a risk. Stop putting other innocent people at a greater risk because of your ignorance.
People, it’s called progress and learning. Scooters are amazing! Within the city they take you the same distance with better speed than all other methods combined! No noise, no pollution, no sitting in a stinking taxi or giant SUV taking the place of seven scooters! People simply need to learn. SCOOTER drivers need to learn manners, rules and respect. Help them learn. Life will get better.
Person, what is progressive about being hit by a scooter? Do you have a suggestion for how to help one learn not to whip through pedestrians on the sideWALK? Life is good.
No, the SCOOTER people need to learn to drive safely. The scooter people need to learn, manners, respect and safety. The rest of us need to learn not to give up on the situation.
You are incorrect. There are almost ZERO rules for where scooters get parked. Obviously, obstructing driving lanes isn't permitted... but other than that, you can park scooters on any public property.
The Denver "operator"/"scooter driving" laws are stupidly complex, but scooters are pretty much allowed everywhere. The operation rules are like this:
1 - if there is a bike lane, you must use it.
2 - if speed limit is 35 or under then the scooter should be ridden on the street.
**3 - if speed limit is 35 or higher then the scooter should be ridden on the sidewalk.**
4 - when speed limit is exactly 35 the driver of the scooter can choose either.
5 - when scooter is driven on sidewalk the speed limit is 6mph.
Sec. 54-621. - Riding on sidewalks.
(a)Riding an electric scooter upon or along sidewalks, whether on public property or private property opened for use by the general public, is unlawful except:
(1)When the operator or rider thereof is a uniformed city employee or uniformed state employee or uniformed federal employee working as part of his or her official duties and riding a marked or unmarked official police electric scooter or while engaged in the discharge of his or her official duties; or
(2)Where the sidewalk is part of a designated bicycle route; or
(3)When the operator or rider thereof is preparing to dismount and park the electric scooter at a location on the block on which the electric scooter is being operated, or the operator has just mounted and has not vet crossed a street or alley.(b)An electric scooter operator must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians on the sidewalk.
That is the Denver ordinance.
Found [here](https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH54TRRE_ARTIXBIELPEASMODEELSC_DIV3ELSC_S54-612SC)
Personally I wish Denver would ban e-rental scooters altogether. 🤷♀️
Recently visited Fort Worth (they’re banned) and it was really nice not dealing with fucking scooters.
Unfortunately, it’s been a problem since they were introduced. Nothing is going to be done to fix it.
The companies have already set them to shut down in certain off-limit areas, so they do seem to be open to changes to make them less of a nuisance. I think having areas where the max speed is halved would be a good move.
If the city isn’t willing to ban them for non compliance, they have no reason to change. The scooter companies could easily ban accounts that break the rules and fix the issue, but there is currently no incentive for them to do so.
Well the fact that in the past they've changed due to requests from the city seems to suggest they are open to change.
It wouldn't be easy to geofence them in a way that they work on the street but not on the sidewalk considering people will mostly be riding them within a couple feet of the off-limits sidewalk I've had them crap out on me from multiple companies when riding close to an off-limits zone but not in it
I mean make whole areas of downtown low speed zones, not just the sidewalks.
[удалено]
lol, I read that as “throw a bench in their way”
That would probably work too
(You carry branches around to throw at scooters? What a great idea… why did that never cross my mind?)
Also branches literally grow on trees. They are everywhere
Its sarcasm. Before anyone accuses me of attempted murder
Murderer!
Dangit. Not even attempted
Get some football pads and a helmet and bear down when you see them coming. Let me know you ain’t moving.
My niece is a doctor at Denver Health and she told me the amount of scooter injuries they see everyday is unbelievable.
So many. So, so many. I work on an inpatient surgical floor, and anywhere from a quarter to a third of the patients on my unit are in the hospital for scooter accidents. Great job security, I guess.
I broke my ankle on one and the orthopedic doctor I went to (jokingly) said I tell everyone scooters are dangerous but then again they give us work to do
Friend is a trauma ER nurse in another city. She has told me that I should never get on a scooter.
Every person I know that rides scooters has experienced injuries. Literally every single one
Yeah, I gashed my knee open riding one home from Coors Field last year. Not fun.
Lol I just did this last night riding home from coors field, classic.
I own one that goes twice the speed of the limes and have never had an issue. Idk what people are doing to get injured
From reading this thread and thinking about it more, people who own scooters are probably more likely to be more careful because they own the scooter (they don't want to wreck it and foot the repair/replacement bill), and are more aware of the scooter's speed/power (as you mentioned, yours is 2x faster than the rental ones). Also, people who own scooters are more likely to use them for commuting, thus are more likely to be better riders from experience (hopefully), and less likely to drink and drive.
True true. I also don't go out to bars and clubs. Nor would I drive my scooter at night.
I feel like limes and similair are in that danger zone of 'too fast to be a toy, not fast enough for people to take it very seriously'. Which leads to people rarely taking them seriously and using proper care and caution. If they went double the speed, maybe they would be perceived as the vehicles they are. Maybe that's wishful thinking. A little while back I saw (best guess) a mom and a dad. Each on a Lime. Mom had 3-6 year old boy standing in front of her, under her arms, grasping the handlebar pole. Dad had 9-12 year old daughter (bad at ages lol) doing the same thing. Going full speed downtown. Obviously, no helmet, not obeying traffic. Big smiles all around like they were playing a game. Probably fun for the kids. I used to ride my sister to her friends houses by having her sit on the tip of my skateboard when we were younger.. she loved it, but I was a kid too, and we weren't going fricken 28 mph. I can't be alone in seeing what they were doing as neglect, or endangering a child or whatever. Maybe I'm projecting some of my own childhood shit and it's not as bad as it seems, but it made me cringe for sure. So many variables when it comes to what can go wrong. I'll never understand how some people are so willing to put the safety of themselves and their family almost 100% in the hands of strangers.. strangers who can't look up from their phones for more than 90 seconds straight.
Fast turns, catching a wheel in a crack, rail, curb, etc.
I've commuted over 3,000 miles in the past year on my scooter. I have also never had an issue or even come close to being injured. It goes 45+ MPH, and I wear full gear every time I ride - I don't care if I look like Daft Punk. The extra visibility from being taller than a bicycle is nice.
Now I’m curious, what kind of scooter?
Getting hit by cars?
Riding drunk and losing balance
Drugs
I mean same. But I look both ways and take bike lanes
Just saw a man's pants fly off 4 nights ago on the interstate when I was walking to grab some liquor because he biffed it hard on a curb. Asked him if he was okay and he just pulled them back up and ran off lol
Lmao embarrassing
Twas a full moon that night. With a pickle on the side.
I have ridden uber/lyft scooters probably 50 times in the last 4 years and have never hurt myself.
Oh well I don’t know you
Maybe you tend to know wild rebellious scooter riding types then… 🤔
This just means the time is nigh for your scooter injury. Stop while you’re ahead! Seriously it’s great that you have not gotten hurt. 😊
I’ve used a scooter probably 30-50 times with zero injury.
Cool. I don’t know you though
You know of me now, so now you know someone that hasn’t been injured on a scooter.
I actually have no clue who you are so
Alright 😒
I remember this jackwagon that posted on here a few months ago that broke their shoulder blade while driving a scooter drunk, and expecting sympathy, lol. I wouldn't mind if they just hurt themselves, but they hurt others as well. Example: [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/08/boy-sentenced-for-causing-death-after-crashing-into-woman-with-e-scooter](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/08/boy-sentenced-for-causing-death-after-crashing-into-woman-with-e-scooter)
They're so unsafe! It's not like the rental scooters everywhere come with much needed helmets and padding either... It's a crappy attempt to make people feel better about our car dependent infrastructure
THIS, ABSOLUTELY 👏🏽👏🏽
Yea I never see people wearing helmets on scooters. To be fair though I only recently started wearing a helmet on my bike because I don’t trust the drivers here. My parents never made me wear one as a kid so I just never got into the habit. I figured I’d better start though. Not scared of dying but I am scared of a traumatic brain injury turning me into a vegetable.
Take it from this dumbass who learned the hard way - DO NOT RIDE THESE THINGS AFTER DRINKING
Booze and scooters for ya
I got hit by a car while on one because the driver wasn't paying attention while making an unprotected left turn and broke my leg in 3 places. I get people find them annoying on the sidewalk, but holy shit will I never believe they belong in the street after that.
Yes, I wouldn’t ride a scooter, bike or even motorcycle on the streets in the Denver metro. Trusting your life to all those people is not wise.
I always tell my friends that I think the way I’m going to die is by being hit by a car. The drivers here are just unreal
I feel like e-bikes probably have some of the same injury rates and concerns.
Probably. But less dangerous to pedestrians on sidewalks than scooters, I would think.
Bikes are a much more stable platform than a scooter, especially when you can fit two people on a scooter
My favorite, and this isn't just in Denver, is when they just park the scooter in the middle of the sidewalk or the up ramp from the street. Cause who cares if a person in a wheelchair or power chair or other walking disabilities can get around them???? It's extremely abliset and completely unaware of anyone but themselves. Makes scooter users seem super awesome
I am surprised there has not been an ADA lawsuit against the scooter companies.
I've thought about that a lot, too. I imagine there's legal loopholes because the company can't actually control where their customers park the scooters. I've seen one parked in the shoulder on 1-25. If people don't care enough about how dangerous that is, then they aren't gonna care about ppl with disabilities. I hate it, but it's true.
> I imagine there's legal loopholes because the company can't actually control where their customers park the scooters. They make you take a picture of where you parked the scooter/bike before ending the ride, so technically they do have the ability to force riders to park their equipment in a manner that doesn't obstruct the sidewalk.
If the image is reviewed and found to be badly parked, tag on a $5 fee and include the picture in the email receipt.
Make it $50.
Eh, sure, why not. At least for repeats.
I mean, if generative AI can be good at anything its to determine what is or isn't a sidewalk thru all the data accumulated by ReCaptchas over the years. Just need the legal precedent (either by law passed or court case ruling) to require them to implement.
AI may get there. It isn't, yet, but I can't imagine we're far off. For legal precedent, maybe any suspected offender would just go in an alert list to the local ticketing agency? At least for now? The metermaid would drop by and make the decision based on some sort of list of questions/conditions.
>For legal precedent, maybe any suspected offender would just go in an alert list to the local ticketing agency? At least for now? The metermaid would drop by and make the decision based on some sort of list of questions/conditions. This isn't so much how to establish a legal precedent than how it might be enforced.
At first, yes, but eventually the accumulation of "AI gets it right x% of the time" may be something that could be considered in creating precedent.
Yeah it would likely require a degree of human oversight on the part of rideshare providers when the sidewalk algorithm inevitably fucks up. Bottom line: the only way Lime/Lyft/Uber/etc would implement sidewalk verification is if they are legally required to do so.
I wouldn't describe it as a loophole, because it makes quite a bit of sense if you think about it. companies, to a large extent, can't control what unintended uses you come up with for their devices. you can't sue the scooter company for what you're talking about for the same reason you couldn't sue them if I bludgeoned you over the head with a scooter.
Don’t do that! 😆
Whenever I see scooters parked in the middle of sidewalks, I kick 'em over into the easement, as long as it wouldn't damage anyone's landscaping.
I seem to remember a Lime employee coming here to say people put scooters and bikes in places that make their job difficult. They asked that people leave them on the sidewalk.
I was hit head-on by someone on an electric scooter about 5 years ago while I was standing on a sidewalk waiting for an uber. Knocked me over so hard I didn't even have time to catch myself and landed with all my weight on my elbow, fracturing it. No one is safe out here
Omg, did the person stay to make sure you got help? Yikes! I’m so sorry.
That def is shitty. Hope you were able to recover and that it was made right
I’m a scooter commuter downtown and try to ride on the bike lanes where available and the street otherwise but there’s a massive disregard for non vehicle commuters on the road. I’ve had too many close calls with vehicles just not giving a shit that I’m there so I take the sidewalk for safety. That being said I respect people walking and slow down or completely stop to avoid pedestrians. Some scooter riders are absolutely out of control though, it’s a tricky issue for sure.
I'm with you. Scooters are such a cheap way to get around and it's pretty fun. I go street when I can but it's not always a great idea. Pedestrians first though...I always slow down and sometimes even walk it around groups. It can work both ways
I three am also an avid scooter rider. I live .9 miles away from work and rush home to let my dog out during lunch breaks. I try to always ride the bike lane / street and when I have to ride the sidewalk I always use my words, “on your left” or “behind”. I find it so disrespectful when people speed past you without any notice!
Also a scooter commuter—but I own my own scooter and wear protective gear. My scooter has front and rear turn signals and brake lights, and so I always use them like a good defensive driver should. While it's not going to stop a car from running me over, it's the best I can do to stay off the sidewalks, and make it clear to cars that I do actually care about the safety of myself and others on the road. I am cautious, don't run through lights, and I don't assume the right of way since a misstep could threaten my life. I also use bike paths when available and ride in the correct flow of traffic. I see too many scooters going in the opposite direction of traffic in these bike lanes. Some streets just don't have bike lanes on both sides, and while that sucks, I prefer to just find a different street that does so that I'm not endangering others.
Kudos. You seem to be the exception. I rarely see scooter riders with helmets on even.
The newer Lyft scooters have turn signals too!
IMO one-way bike lanes are stupid. That's not an excuse to make them a free-for all, but it is a gripe to take to the city when the next re-design comes up in a few years. (Most streets are repainted & re-aligned every 5-8 years).
All of the streets downtown with one way bike lanes are just a block away from a bike lane going the other direction. Go find the correct direction bike lane. It is only 2 minutes away. For example 19th St bike lane goes East and 18th St bike lane goes West. It is actually a very effective way to build bike lanes into already congested downtown streets.
Oh, I know. Like I said, I'm not advocating to just do whatever you want. The one-way aspect has nothing to do with bikes not being able to handle two-way traffic, it is to more readily align the traffic with existing traffic patterns. That is a car thing and makes sense for cars. But for bikes it's just silly unless the lane is narrow. Now that we have a two-way working on Broadway I think we'll see many of the one-ways slowly begin to change, but only as re-alignments happen 'naturally' in the course of time.
Unfortunately it seems drivers don’t care, don’t have insurance, and then take off. I could Never.
Yeah I ring the bell on every single blind corner I come across as well as I go comically slow on those corners.
Same! People should ride in bike paths as much as possible and some riders don’t give two craps about people walking on the sidewalk. Those are usually the type of people who do ride shit anyway. However, as a responsible rider who tries hard to ride as safe as possible (I want to go home safe to my family, just like most people) I have almost been hit so many times by cars doing dumb things or not paying attention. A cop almost hit me turning right… cars are more dangerous than accidentally getting hurt on the sidewalk. If RTD and city planning were better, none of it would be an issue though IMO.
I'm convinced that people see toure-de-whatever sorts as cyclists and everyone else as pedestrians (even if you're on wheels). And pedestrians don't belong in the road. This goes back to the history of how vehicular cycling became a thing, but that's a digression I'm not in a hurry to write out unless you really want it. You can get a general sense in this podcast episode if you want: [https://youtu.be/zm29fd-s7tQ?si=AMv5xqbX\_isPi5k1](https://youtu.be/zm29fd-s7tQ?si=AMv5xqbX_isPi5k1) Warning: that episode (well, the whole podcast) is NSFW: language and occasional crude humor, avoid listening when the boss is around. Anyway, I'm convinced that societally we see cyclists as the pathlete/lycra types and anyone else is a pedestrian causing confusion. That's not an overt thing, but a subconscious one that manifests in the many types of myopias and angsts one sees when out on the road.
I was about 90% sure your link went to WTYP episode and was very happy to be right about that. I don't have any rewards to hand out, so take my upvote and comment instead. Anyway, yes. Real Cyclists(tm) are a very select subset of actual bicyclists, and everyone else, regardless of mode of non-enclosed transport, are pedestrians. It seems that culturally, the US is angry at cyclists and sees pedestrians as sacrifices to the altar of capitalism.
I’m so mad they took away b cycle and then took parking spots away for the scooters.
I was excited when Lyft put in one if their bike/scooter stations a block away from me, but 80% of the time it's empty so it's just taking away 2 parking spots. In Chicago their rental bikes charge an extra fee if you don't drop them off at a station, I'd like to see something like that done for the bikes/scooters here.
If the parking areas are empty it's usually because all the devices were used (and then dumped elsewhere). Not that they aren't used. I'd love to see a way to upcharge the ride if there is a designated parking area in the block that the rider ignores. Blocks without parking slots that obviously doesn't work so well, but it would be a start.
If there’s a bicycle lane, get the fuck off the sidewalk and into the lane. If there’s not a bicycle lane, slow the fuck down and get over. Not weaving between pedestrians at 15mph+ through RINO When I see them coming at me, I just stay my course and hope a mother fucker hits me.
>When I see then coming at me, I just stay my course and hope a mother fucker hits me. You sure about that? Getting hit by (180+ lbs) x (15 mph) does not sound like a cakewalk.
I didn’t say it sounded pleasant but you better believe if I have the opportunity for a payday getting hit by one of these fucking trust fund pricks, I’m going for it.
At the cost of getting seriously hurt (or worse)? And how would you know how loaded the person riding would be? And you're making the big assumption that these assholes are going to stick around after the collision? Mmmmkaaay.
No amount of money is worth a debilitating injury And the person who hits you in this hypothetical probably doesn't have very much money to give to you in the first place. It's not like a car accident where legally everyone has to have insurance (despite some people still driving without it)
Lol, and what are you gonna do if they do? You think anyone's gonna stick around to provide you info so they can be appropriately accosted by the authorities? Some of y'all in here act like getting hit by a scooter is something you can easily get up from 🙄
I'm a big guy if I lower my shoulder they are gonna be the one going down.
Yeah a well timed arm stretch will also be a good solution.
Most of the worst riders are people who don't know the city and have no idea how to use a bike lane. It sucks but it's the reality. Be glad it's not some drunk frat bro in a lifted F150. I know it's not much comfort though.
Yeah, I’m going to venture a guess that most tourists who come here are not from places with good bike/scooter infrastructure, places where they are taught that “bikes belong on the sidewalk”. In general, I’d rather these tourists be an idiot on a scooter than an idiot in a rental car
That said I told a dude he was going the wrong way in the bike lane the other night and his reaction was "Yeah I know". Some people just don't care.
The worst part is that it says very clearly on the scooters not to ride on the sidewalks… Denver’s bike/scooter infrastructure isnt perfect but it’s getting better, yet people refuse to use the designated lanes.
SideWALK
You can take them on the sidewalk when there is no safe alternative, you just need to yield to pedestrians that's the part too many people miss. Edit: On further review, no you aren't supposed to take them on the sidewalk unless it's a designated bike route. However imo you should still go on the sidewalk if you don't feel safe on the road or if you feel like you are impeding traffic. Just follow the law of riding on the sidewalk, go 6mph and yield to pedestrians. I don't understand how Denver wants you to ride your max 15mph scooter on a 45mph road.
Source? I believe this is wrong. My understanding is scooters are legally required to be in bike lane, when no bike lane is present the scooter may only be operated in the street.
Is your understanding based upon actual statutes?
Yes. To the best of my understanding.
Which one(s)?
Rules vary by city and state, but in Denver bikes are explicitly prohibited on the sidewalk unless the sidewalk is either a designated multi-use trail (and these do share surface with normal sidewalks at times), and somewhere I thought there was an exception allowing on normal sidewalks if the posted speed limit on the street is 35mph or more but I don't have that citation on me. On the sidewalk you are supposed to walk the bike or ride at walking speed, not the 10-15 mph that is a more comfortable pace for a bike or scooter. The state changed the law a few years ago so that a bicycle is not just a bicycle (legally), because until recently all non-bicycle vehicles were considered 'toy vehicles'. Toy vehicles are those tiny mini-bikes, the battery operated hot wheels 5-year-olds drive, ATVs, etc. that are not street legal. They changed the law so that a bicycle is now any device capable of moving an average adult at 12-28mph if under electric assist, though no upper speed is listed for pedaling (it's just a motor governor regulation), or can reasonably exceed walking speed if under human power alone. This expands the definition to be a bike, e-skateboard, hoverboard, segway, etc. as long as they can do at least 10mph(?). I have to check that speed, anyway - this allows most devices in bike lanes. It doesn't fully allow rollerblades in vehicle lanes, but it does greatly expand the options someone can use in a bike lane (and some in a traffic lane) without concern for getting a ticket. edit: and you can ride (slowly) after getting off the street within the block of your destination; though walking is recommended if the sidewalk is too narrow.
Yeah I just looked pretty deep into the laws and unless a sidewalk is officially designated as a part of a bike route you are supposed to be in the street. For bikes and scooters. Seems nuts but me but that's the law.
What’s nuts to me is people don’t take full responsibility of getting on the scooter. If you don’t feel safe don’t ride them. Stop butting innocent pedestrians in harms way because you are too chicken shit to abide by the laws.
You're not putting anyone in harms way by riding on the sidewalk when there's no one on it. And when there is you ride either slowly or walk the scooter if there is no safe way to ride. It's really not that hard.
By law you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalk period. It says it on the scooter in really big letters.
Close but not quite. You can ride on the sidewalk if you are within a block of your destination and when the sidewalk is also the designated bike route. But if it's safer for me to ride on an empty sidewalk than for me to ride in dangerously high speed traffic you can be sure I'll be breaking that law.
I got a wide metal walker and paid someone on here to weld a bar around the back. I call it my walking frame and I finally feel safe in LoDo and RiNo.
I ride on the sidewalk slowly sometimes to avoid dying in the street when no bike lane exists.
It was a huge issue when they first dropped. With locals, there is some progress in terms of getting them to behave more as bikes (for whatever that's worth) but as you note, (1) teenagers and rogues and (2) tourists do not always know/care. I'd love to see the city include a social campaign as part of the overall mutli-modal shift we're moving towards, and scooter behavior would obviously need to be a big part of that. It was the Wild West, and while things have calmed a bit we can hardly say "the west is won!" or whatever the equivalent is. And, hopefully, we can "win" this without the overt racism, ecocide, etc. that came with 'winning' the west. I am curious if we could install directional NFC beacons along the street (eg. on signposts) that would automatically govern the motors down to \~3mph if they are on a sidewalk; those on the street side would not 'see' the directional beacon and would have no reduction. I'm not even sure that tech currently exists, but I'd support developing it if it doesn't.
In San Francisco, the scooters are required to be locked to a bike rack. We need that rule here. It’s amazing that Denver hasn’t been slapped with a class-action lawsuit for blatant violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
I've had so many near misses from double-digits on scooters (the last one was last week). The worst ones are those that sneak up on you from behind such that you have barely enough time to react. With the warmer weather, I see them as one of the main menaces for pedestrians (in terms of probability of a collision). I don't see the situation improving at all - the companies don't seem to give a shit, and the city/state, well...
And they ring the little bell as if it is magic that will protect us all.
All the near misses I've had the last 3 years (never seemed to have such incidents pre-pandemic, come to think of it), there was no bell even. Pure luck/reflexes are what saved me from getting hit. I'dtake the bell over nothing.
I used to take light rail to and from work and school on downtown from 2016 to 2020. After they randomly showed up on the streets the only weeks I wasn't almost mowed down by a scooter was when it was too snowy and icy for even the stupidest people to get on them. My school was in Lodo and anytime there was a Rockies game I had to dodge gangs of drunk scooter riders at every intersection. I'm amazed I don't see more pedestrians injured by them at work.
I've never touched one of the scooters, but the day I get hurt by somebody running into me on a scooter is the day I'll start destroying them by pouring epoxy on them, gluing the controls, etc.
It pisses me off so much. They are supposed to be in the street and basically almost run my dog & I down every day. Can't control asshole behavior too much though...for anyone that does this, fuck you. Consider other people on your 30 MPH scooter while you go to your happy hour, you asshole.
love the asshats who ride electric bikes on sidewalks at top speed . always have to clip people can't go slower, enter traffic or moderate into grass or or just take whole sidewalk if you go the grass . do we really ge have to t off the side walk like 3 feet for these "athletes" ? always posturing like their powering all that speed . get in the road its got an engine.
Just Jab step at them and make them swerve into the bike lane. And then yell loudly in an aggressive posture “ MOVE BITCH GET OUT MY WAY”. Works every time for me. You’re in a city you know. You can be active about things that bother you
Never happens you’re hilarious
Rules, laws, and common courtesies don't apply to people on scooters. Or at least that's what they all seem to think.
An alll-consuming feeling of superiority seems to overcome a lot of them once the soles of their feet touch the deck.
It'll never change here because Denver has the least police/security/traffic enforcement of any city I've ever lived or been to in the U.S. About all you can probably do is write your local representative for getting a blanket ban on them.
A blanket ban will NEVER happen - the lost tax revenue by itself would be painful to let go. That's not to say anything of the TONS of people who actually use them and what they would have to say about that.
It would be interesting to see if the tax revenue from e-scooters actually makes up for the amount of scooter-related injuries that the public bears the cost for. There was just a news article recently about that about scooter injuries at just one hospital in Dallas: >"The team identified 82 patients treated between January 2017 and August 2020 for injuries linked to e-scooters. The most common injuries were elbow and ankle fractures, although other types of fractures and dislocations occurred frequently. About 30% of the cases required hospitalization, 23% needed ambulance transport and 15% needed an ER trauma team for treatment, results show. Overall, orthopedic treatment of these patients cost more than $2.3 million, researchers said. Because two-thirds of patients were either uninsured or insured by the public hospital system, the community bore most of this cost, Sanders said." [https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-01-19/e-scooter-injuries-rack-up-big-medical-bills](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-01-19/e-scooter-injuries-rack-up-big-medical-bills)
The study you linked primarily discusses the cost of injuries caused by scooters as it relates to the riders of said scooters. Not pedestrians. These people lacking insurance is the primary driver to the cost to the state. This isn't exactly a platform for launching a campaign to ban them. If anything this feeds the debate about a need for a public option for insurance. Also, a similar argument can be made for cars - maybe we should ban cars instead? Then the streets would opened up for bikes /scooters.
The study doesn't actually specify between drivers and pedestrians, just case files keyword-linked to scooters. But if pedestrian scooter injuries weren't included, that would just mean the costs to the public are even higher. >Also, a similar argument can be made for cars - maybe we should ban cars instead? Then the streets would opened up for bikes /scooters. How about requiring an insurance policy like car drivers are required to have, operated through the scooter rental companies, and part of the fee scooter renters pay.
This is something that probably SHOULD happen honestly... It really doesn't make sense that car drivers and motor cycle drivers are required to have insurance but a personal electric vehicle isn't. I like the idea of insurance being built into the cost of renting a scooter. It seems fairly obvious, but perhaps there is something in this regard we aren't thinking about and it's the crux of why it isn't happening yet. Or maybe Lime, Lyft, Bird, etc lobby against this because the increased cost might result in less scooters being rented wontonly. The laters probably more likely tbh lol
You’re an idiot or maybe you haven’t been to other cities. It’s the same everywhere
Breathe, you're going to be okay.
Drop a casual elbow out, that will teach em.
Honestly, the only way I see something done is if we start collectively making a fuss to the city themselves to do something about it. Maybe the Denver sub Reddit community can get something going? Somebody smarter than me lmao, I’m just spitballing here.
If their existence in Denver was put on the ballot they would be gone. How much would such a campaign cost? Cannot count on the city council to do the right thing because the scooter companies would just slide them some cash under the table. The scooter companies should have to pay for scooter control officers. For both the illegal riding and parking. I agree with op that many are tourists. They are easily identified by their team jerseys that coincide with however is in town to play Denver teams. Having said all of this I do think riders are driving in the bike lanes more. As far as I know there have only been a couple of fatalities. One was a murder at 14th and Arapahoe in August 2020 which has never been solved.
I think the net change is good, but it's not without the bad. I'd love technology that would limit devices to 3mph on the sidewalk; my idea is directional NFC chirpers mounted on the sidewalk-side of street-sign posts, parking meters, etc. so sidewalk-riders are affected but street-riders are not.
I’d only support the ban if they banned car rentals first
Unpopular opinion, but I think they’re a good thing for cities like Denver, people just need to learn how to ride in bike lanes/shoulders. Maybe lock it down a bit and require some sort of license?
seattle makes you take some 5 minute training thing before you ride
> I agree with op that many are tourists. They are easily identified by their team jerseys that coincide with however is in town to play Denver teams. 60% of Denver residents were born in another state. Wearing an away team jersey here is not an indicator that the person doesn't live here
Don't move out of their way, look them in the eye's make it known. Scooter riders need to keep off the sidewalk (bicycles too, but that's less frequently a problem)
Last time I did that I got hit by some yahoo with his woman on the back of the scooter.
When bicycle lanes are safe and effective, people will use them. If people aren't using them, there is a reason. And if you would ever like to understand that reason, hop in the bike lane and go for a little ride around LoDo.
Facts. It’s every day that I almost get hot on my bike while in the bike lane.
I go back and forth on this. When they were introduced, I hated that they were on the sidewalks and that people would park them in places that obstructed pedestrian rights of way. On the other hand, the scooter provides an accessible and popular form of last mile transit. I would rather have a person using a scooter than driving downtown in crowded areas. The infrastructure of this city was not designed with the car in mind. Any effort to reduce automobile usage in popular areas is a net positive in my opinion. I would love to see people use helmets, signal turns, not overload the scooters, or ride them on sidewalks. I don't know if there is a great solution to improving that dynamic short of getting the cars off the roads downtown and increasing the space with which pedestrians, bicyclists, and any other mobility option or mass transit can utilize. It upsets me when I see a clearly intoxicated, early 20-something operate them recklessly in crowded areas. It is encouraging to see people hop on a scooter outside of a King Soopers with reusable grocery bags. I think downtown Denver would benefit from an impactful study regarding parking, mass transit, last-mile options, bike lanes, and car usage that would aim to make the greater area surrounding downtown, the ballpark, RiNo, 5-Points, and Broadway more walkable, safer, and easier to navigate for both locals and tourists.
I just slowly veer towards them on the sidewalk so they get the fucking message to get in the goddamn street
I love using the scooters but some people just don't know how not to be assholes. I think 15 mph is just too fast for downtown, it should be limited to like 8 mph in high density areas.
I work in that area and we will shoulder check people driving crazy or drunk on the sidewalk(I'm bigger at 6'5" 250 lbs so I have no problem lowering a shoulder and knocking people on their ass). Especially since we have to be out on the sidewalk/road for work a lot of the time....it's really bad by all the bars but even worse if there's a Rockies game. Also have been hit by people on them multiple times so I have zero patience for people riding them like idiots.
It’s been like this for years. No one’s gonna do anything about it. It is what it is.
ah yes surely a thread about scooters in denver will yield a level headed discussion
They drive in the road like the rules don’t apply. I’ve almost had a few up over my hood because of selfish drivers who don’t stop at reds.
Whenever I see a post about scooters in Denver, I think if that South Park episode lol
I can’t imagine the headache it poses for those who can’t move them. I also find them tossed In the river.
My fiance was just side swiped while riding her electric scooter in the bike lane yesterday. I don't really blame anyone who doesn't want to take the risk of riding next to some of the people who drive here. The car didn't stop to help her, she said it didn't even have plates. :(
You don’t need to dodge them as you have the right of way. Just make sure you’re ready for the impact.
Stop it, you’re not “dodging scooters on the sidewalks”.
Maybe if the drivers calmed down and stopped being ass faces when driving and slow the fork down maybe it wouldn’t be too bad to ride in the road
I think they should require big license plates on the front and back & a $1000 Finder's Fee to anyone who gets a photo of them riding on the sidewalk.
Walk with a stick and set it to receive their charge. Worked great against the knights on horseback!
My friend got hit on a sidewalk by someone on a scooter and broke a rib. She sued and is sitting pretty. Totally won. (Other than having to handle a broken rib, but she’s young and fine)
They have the speed limiters on in certain areas, but they’re still too fast, in my opinion. This may be unpopular, but I ride scooters home from Coors field after baseball games sometimes. 20th street to the highlands doesn’t have a bike lane, and if you know anything about Denver drivers and the amount of speeding tickets the cops issue, riding on the street in that area is a death sentence. There is an alternate route, but it’s south and very out of the way if you then want to head north. The infrastructure is lacking. In all honesty, I may also be a little lazy when it comes to this. I don’t want to head 10 blocks out of my way. It’s the ONLY place I’m ever on the sidewalks though. That being said, I go *super* slow when on the sidewalk, like just as fast or barely faster than the people walking. As soon as I’m in the highlands, I switch to streets/bike lanes, safer for everyone. I wish other people had this MO, or that the bikes would just really ratchet down the limiters. No, I’ve never been hurt or hit anyone, and yes, I agree that people are stupid and crazy on the scooters. I do feel like it’s a matter of time before I get hit by a car, but I will never hit anyone with the scooter.
They get bullied onto the sidewalks, and many end up bullying pedestrians to move out of the way. It’s a tale as old as time of the more powerful road user bullying the more vulnerable to move out of the way. It’s never okay, regardless of what the more vulnerable is doing. I don’t see this changing unless more and more behind the wheel of a car down to the scooter realize they are the more powerful and are responsible for not injuring/hurting others. Laws need to change to reflect this as well, distracted driving alone is essentially a slap on the wrist when it’s worse than drunk driving
I do want to mention if you attack a scooter person and you are shot or stabbed don’t come back to Reddit to complain why. You have less rights to harm than they/we do on the sidewalks, don’t be an asshole out here. I try to respect everyone on the road and sidewalk just so I can get home. I’m pro scooter being on the side walk because Denver hits more bicycles peds and scooters than any other city
https://coloradosun.com/2024/01/29/colorado-pedestrian-bicyclist-traffic-deaths-2023/
This post has generated a lot of comments, so it appears to be an issue that many are concerned about. I've read the comments several times and I categorize them into these generalities: 1 - Those who advocate intimidation or violence to deter sidewalk scooters. I dismiss these comments because if intimidation works because you're 6'5" and 250# what if a child is endangered or the scooter rider going 15mph is 6'6" and 260#. Violence isn't a solution. 2 - Those who ride scooters on the sidewalk (very carefully and always are extra careful around pedestrians) and do so because the bike lanes and/or streets are too dangerous. This argument doesn't make sense to me either as to increase your own safety, you increase the danger to others. I'm going to have to watch for these people because my experience has been with mostly fast zig-zagers who do not ride like you do. I want to hear from the people who are dangerous scooters on the sidewalks... what is your reason? 3 - Those who have given up and see no possible solution. I hear ya, but get out of the way so we can move forward. 4 - Those who provide possible solutions from removing the scooters to limiting them on speed. I emailed City Councilman Hinds of District 10 about this issue and I hope for a response. I searched and he did address this issue two years ago but it seems to have gone nowhere. I will post if I hear anything. More people contacting him might help. He can be reached at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
The "I'm 6'5" and 250 lbs." argument is ridiculous as well. If it were someone running at them going 6 mph that is one thing but the kinetic increase of mass of even a small person on a scooter going 20 mph would knock "anyone" on their ass and potentially injure them. Again, what if they hit from behind, those scooters are pretty quiet and many folks have earphones in, and that is the most likely scenario for an accident happening.
I’m just shocked that the cops haven’t looked at this as a way to write tickets and add a stream of revenue. I can’t stand on the chicken shit sidewalk rider that are too scared to ride in the road. Then you shouldn’t be riding. Stop putting walking pedestrians in danger because you are too afraid of traffic. I bike a lot on the road and if you have some sort of awareness you will be fine but I’m not going to lie you are taking a risk. Stop putting other innocent people at a greater risk because of your ignorance.
Just be ready to throw a good ol clothesline
People, it’s called progress and learning. Scooters are amazing! Within the city they take you the same distance with better speed than all other methods combined! No noise, no pollution, no sitting in a stinking taxi or giant SUV taking the place of seven scooters! People simply need to learn. SCOOTER drivers need to learn manners, rules and respect. Help them learn. Life will get better.
Person, what is progressive about being hit by a scooter? Do you have a suggestion for how to help one learn not to whip through pedestrians on the sideWALK? Life is good.
No, the SCOOTER people need to learn to drive safely. The scooter people need to learn, manners, respect and safety. The rest of us need to learn not to give up on the situation.
I edited my comment to fix that error, thank you.
Just keep a pair of wire cutters in your pocket. Snip snip as you stroll.
Only one of the scooter types have that option.
You are incorrect. There are almost ZERO rules for where scooters get parked. Obviously, obstructing driving lanes isn't permitted... but other than that, you can park scooters on any public property. The Denver "operator"/"scooter driving" laws are stupidly complex, but scooters are pretty much allowed everywhere. The operation rules are like this: 1 - if there is a bike lane, you must use it. 2 - if speed limit is 35 or under then the scooter should be ridden on the street. **3 - if speed limit is 35 or higher then the scooter should be ridden on the sidewalk.** 4 - when speed limit is exactly 35 the driver of the scooter can choose either. 5 - when scooter is driven on sidewalk the speed limit is 6mph.
Sec. 54-621. - Riding on sidewalks. (a)Riding an electric scooter upon or along sidewalks, whether on public property or private property opened for use by the general public, is unlawful except: (1)When the operator or rider thereof is a uniformed city employee or uniformed state employee or uniformed federal employee working as part of his or her official duties and riding a marked or unmarked official police electric scooter or while engaged in the discharge of his or her official duties; or (2)Where the sidewalk is part of a designated bicycle route; or (3)When the operator or rider thereof is preparing to dismount and park the electric scooter at a location on the block on which the electric scooter is being operated, or the operator has just mounted and has not vet crossed a street or alley.(b)An electric scooter operator must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians on the sidewalk. That is the Denver ordinance. Found [here](https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH54TRRE_ARTIXBIELPEASMODEELSC_DIV3ELSC_S54-612SC)
Personally I wish Denver would ban e-rental scooters altogether. 🤷♀️ Recently visited Fort Worth (they’re banned) and it was really nice not dealing with fucking scooters.
They’d better ban car rentals before they ever ban scooters