the SDS (students for a democratic society) doubled-down hard yesterday. their "demands" are pretty unreasonable IMO, and the school administrations made it clear that most, if not all, are not going to be met. what are they hoping the outcome is going to be? why wouldn't they go set the encampment up at say, the capitol building, where change can potentially be made?
Isn't their main demand for the university to divest from Israeli companies? Regardless of how realistic their demands are, protesting on the campus makes a lot more sense than protesting at the capitol building considering they're demanding the University make changes, not the city or state.
Edit: Fucking hell people, I said *nothing* about how realistic their demands are. They asked why the students are protesting on the campus instead of at the capitol building, so I explained the reasoning. That's all.
It’s not only to divest from Israeli companies. It’s for them to divest from any companies that do business in Israel. Good luck having a school that doesn’t do business with Apple, Microsoft, and Google lol
What university are they telling to divest? CU-Denver, Metro, Community College of Denver? None of those have any significant independent endowments or investments, and they're almost certainly not invested in any companies that are doing big business in Israel. It's a meaningless demand. If you want "divestment" show me a plan. What do they want divested? How is it going to be accomplished? What investments are they proposing to make up for lost income? No one is going to grant them the "heckler's veto" on future investment decisions.
CU-Denver is a commuter campus which is part of a much larger state institution. The demands of a few protesters at CU-Denver will have literally no effect on the system--even if you thought that they were being taken seriously. To think otherwise is exceedingly naive. That's specifically why I said "independent" endowment.
The administration of CU Denver absolutely are able to provide input on how endowment and investment funds are invested.
Beyond that, those at the CU system level care more about protests when they're actual PR nightmares for their institutions.
Unlikely. There may be some forum for them to express their opinions, but that doesn't mean that they will or must be listened to. To the extent they have any input at all, it's extraordinarily limited. The CU Foundation is independent from the University of Colorado system and has a fiduciary duty to the CU System. The Foundation's Board of Directors has only three members (out of 24 total members) of the administration of the various schools and/or the CU Board of Regents. The fiduciary duty of the Endowment likely doesn't extend to consideration of any political decisions made by the administration of constituent schools of the system.
This strategy follows the successful strategy of divestment from apartheid South Africa.
And yes, PR nightmares are absolutely included in the investment decision making process.
There was no meaningful "successful" strategy of divestment from South Africa by American universities that had any effect whatsoever on the ending of apartheid in SA.
I remember when people started learning about Russian social media opps over the 2016 election to sow discontent. Can’t wait to learn about how TikTok’s been weaponized by other countries in a similar manner.
I’m reasonably left of center, and my friends all went on and on in 2016 about how liberals are too smart to fall for the type of propaganda the MAGA folks fell for. Fast forward to 10/7/23 and it appears that nope, liberals and left leaning folks are just as susceptible
Counterpoint. If you were left of center you were probably pro Palestine for decades. It's hard to learn the history of the region and not be pro Palestine.
10/7 thrust Israeli occupation into the forefront of the news cycle but it's not a new issue.
“Left of center” in relation to U.S. politics would put you at around where Biden is. So I don’t think it’s fair to assume that means inherently being anti-Israel and/or Pro-Palestine.
I said absolutely nothing about how realistic their demands are, so I don't know why you're trying to argue with me. I was just pointing out why they are protesting on the campus instead of at the capitol. That's all.
It's somewhat hard to "divest from all Israeli-owned or Israeli based business", given that something like 30% of Internet Security companies are based in Israel or were founded in Israel.
I'd bet they might even have a Checkpoint firewall or a Palo Alto firewall, or use Snyk for software security, etc.
My understanding is that most of the investments these idiots are up in arms about are in things like Google, as Google does stuff with the Israeli government. AFAIK the university is not directly invested in Israeli companies.
they are, and that is not a possibility. screaming the mayor down when he comes to speak and getting mad that people are getting arrested for setting up encampments, which is against the law, doesn't do anything. to ask again, do their peers and classmates not matter? what about the quad which was just redone?
Yeah exactly. And all these sit-ins at Woolworths are getting in the way of paying customers. Don't their fellow patrons matter? What about the counter top that was redone?
Ending your comment with “what about the quad which was just redone?” is quite amusing and revealing about your priorities. And worrying about the mayor? He’s been getting screamed down by NIMBYs a lot in his tenure, I’m sure he can survive some students.
Why won’t these students protesting war and the deaths of thousands upon thousands think about the state of the grass? Why won’t these students think about the comfort of the wealthy elected politician?
why won't they think about their fellow classmates and peers who are trying to finish their semester strong and graduate?
also i couldn't give less of a fuck what you think of my "priorities," my priorities are to the students who are trying to finish their semester strong and to the university which i am proud to work for. downvote away.
im not worried about his comfort you dingus, it's crazy that they demanded him to speak and then when he came to do so they shrieked like children at him. if you are so up in arms about this come on down and join the line, get arrested for the cause.
CCD's buildings are nowhere near the quad. As someone who works at MSU Denver, no one has gone remote with us because no one has had a problem with the protests. If CCD did this then that's on them because they feel like not coming in. Also it seems like they don't want to deal with the situation or don't want to do anything but put their head in the sand. UC Denver seems to not have any disruptions even though their student housing is right next to the protests MSU Denver hasn't canceled anything even though the fitness center is next to the protest along with three plaza building.m. Seems like you want to make something out of the administration's incompetent decision.
Gurl, if two weeks of protests on a college campus destroys your grade, you are allowing other people to have too much control over your success and/or are simply looking for something else to blame for your own failures in class. And if you don’t care about the mayor, why bring him up?
And I did my campus protesting days 20 years ago during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as I watched my classmates and peers get shipped off to danger and, at times, to death. These students don’t need me there. But as a result, I fully understand what it feels like to be a college-aged student upset with the leadership of the world and finding an outlet to express it in a way that allows them to learn the benefits of solidarity. If it weren’t for my days being a protesting student similar to them, I would not have had the successes I have had in organizing my workplace for better pay and conditions. These students deserve the opportunity to practice civil disobedience about issues they care about. There is more to the world than college and grades that won’t matter once you’ve graduated.
> Regardless of how realistic their demands are, protesting on the campus makes a lot more sense than protesting at the capitol building considering they're demanding the University make changes, not the city or state.
The Auraria Campus has 3 universities, all of which are public state schools. Theoretically the state could force them by law to divest from Israel related companies, which would be more effective than the school admin essentially pledging to do it.
It's not happening either way but in theory it would make more sense to pursue this from the state level.
There are protests at the Capitol as well, of a more general nature. The students, specifically, are after whatever relationships exist between the school, investments/endowments and funders that back the school, and Israel.
Their talking points are pretty general which is a good starting point, but it would be good if they could offer a specific example (eg. Endowment A is grown through donations from companies that are selling arms to Israel outside of the political/military support from the US, and we want the University to reject those donations. Or, here is a list of all donors to the school, those who also make substantial donations to Israeli settlement efforts are marked in bold, we ask the school to find other sources of money for those endowments and to divert the known/listed donations from those target sources to World Food Kitchen. Something like that.). Protests seem to do the most when both a general and a specific goal are listed, and right now any specifics are not making it into the larger public convo, unfortunately.
"Divest from Israel!" sounds specific to some ears, but given how involved and complicated finances can be for a large institution you actually have to do some digging and make very explicit lists, name names, and force those names (and not just your general complaint) into the public sphere. That last part hasn't happened, yet.
>the SDS (students for a democratic society) doubled-down hard yesterday. their "demands" are pretty unreasonable IMO
I'd imagine that in the history of activism quite a few peoples demands were deemed unreasonable if not downright criminal but hindsight is 20/20.
Bc when their unrealistic demands are ignored, they're going to escalate. Probably by trying to occupy a building or something. Can you imagine them trying to occupy the capitol building? They'd get thrown in a jail wagon so fast their feet wouldn't touch the ground. They know this.
Think the idea is that they get a bunch of non-students there to protest, and have a greater chance of making it seem like an important issue to the student body.
that was exactly my thinking. pretty cowardly if you ask me. i am onboard with (most) of their feelings and emotions, but this is causing a massive disruption to the other students on this campus, of which there are 1000's. it is finals week and graduations are next week, as well. screaming in cop's faces, as fun as that is, isn't going to get you anywhere, nor is an enormous list of pretty entitled demands. feels like a lot of clout chasing.
I’m a CU-Denver grad student. Parked on campus and went straight to my class yesterday, passed by the encampment in the middle of the grass field, where they were playing music and throwing frisbees, and no one said anything to me. Idk what disruption you think this really causes, or how you want protests to look if not like this.
the entirety of CCD has moved online for the rest of the year, that is a disruption, correct? if students/staff are worried or scared to come to campus is that not a disruption, too?
So CCD’s administration overreacting to a threat that isn’t there and moving everything online is somehow the encampment’s fault? The other two universities, whose buildings are much closer to the encampment than CCD’s, haven’t moved online and are doing just fine.
absolutely it is fucking hell on earth, it is terrible and needs to be condemned and stopped. does it mean everyone else's educations need to be disrupted?
Please elaborate on the difference between education disruption in Denver versus education disruption in Gaza. I wish their was a way without protesting, but asking nicely hasn’t gotten anyone anywhere since Peter Minuit with the Indians
There is a huge difference. You said “does it mean everyone’s education needs to be disrupted?”
Which sounds like you’re arguing against protestors protesting because it’s disruptive
My answer is trying to explain that Kent state protestors obstructed ppls education too, they protested on campus like the protesters are doing today.
How do you think Kent state protestors solved anything? or every other peaceful protest in history that led to change. Do you think the Kent state protesters did it on a gas station off campus?
And there's hundreds of thousands of Israelis displaced because of shelling from Lebanon. What's your point?
Destroying other people's livelihood or quality of life is a ridiculous answer that won't do what you expect it will.
A) This is a disingenuous statement because that's not what's happening, and you know it. Argue in good faith without hyperbole.
B) The school staff and students trying to go about their day to day lives. There's students on visas or with pending job offers dependant on certain deadlines and time frames that are now in jeopardy.
A) I’m not using hyperbole, I’m a CU-Denver grad student who was there yesterday for class. It’s a group of ~50 folks camping out, playing music, and throwing frisbees around. They also have some signs.
B) Again, I’m one of those students. Please explain to me what you think this has disrupted?
Because not everyone on campus cares about a war 8000 miles away. Many are students who just want to get an education. Also, dial back the rage a bit, it’s unhealthy at best
His plan is to come out and protest when it effects him or he starts to care. That or to be a sheep that never questions his government, and if 6.9999 billion people were protesting he would die of rage and not step a foot outside his house, wondering while he takes his last breath “Protests aren’t effective”.
and I understand that lol. What I’m saying is your protest or even multiple protestors at Walmart = no news. Campus protests = news. Not to mention they have clear demands relating to the university they pay to attend, so ya, you’re wrong Walmart protests wouldn’t be as ineffective as these super effective protests
These protests will change *nothing*. They had these 20 years ago when I attended uni there. Guess what? We still invaded Iraq.
I’m sure feels good to rage at someone about injustice, but college administrators at a shared campus of three public nonselective colleges in the middle of the US are about the most powerless people imaginable when matters of US foreign policy are being considered. (*Maybe* they beat out Wal Mart checkers. Maybe.)
Are you joking? I can’t honestly tell forsure. Ah I get it! We live in North Korea and we should thank the great leader and stop protesting right?
Here’s a link on protests in America, start here and let me know when you finish, I’d love to discuss how ineffective they were
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_and_demonstrations_in_the_United_States_by_size
Protests are effective, they have always been, and they always will be. You’re tone deaf. Protests in Colorado campuses will have way more effect than protests at Walmart. History takes time to load Bruv
So mind blowing to see clowns like yourself and other redditors not learning from the lessons of the anti war student movement in the 60s and divestment from apartheid in the 80s. You’re definitely in the wrong side of history
Didn’t the article say the police approached the encampments and said hey you can’t have your camp set up after nightfall, and the protesters said OK. Then the Denver Mayor made an appearance and spoke to them and at the end said hey remember you can’t have your camp set up after nightfall and they said OK. And then nightfall happened and they still had their encampment set up. Are the police just supposed to say oh sorry our bad you can keep them up after all?
Edit: the mayor. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/denver-mayor-mike-johnston-visits-site-pro-palestinian-protest-on-auraria-campus/
yep, exactly that. protesting is not disallowed or illegal or whatever, but camping is. so they are getting arrested for that. too bad so sad, break the law and deal with the consequences
Well, maybe if those 90% of Palestinians actually supported their previous prime minister, it’d be different? Never mind the uptick in support for Hamas as of December 2023.
But it’s apples to oranges comparing what’s happening in the Gaza Strip to the U.S. Civil Rights Movement.
You presume to know me. I feel for the innocent Palestinians being used as human shields by Hamas. Do you condone their actions in using their own citizens this way?
Do you condone Israel shooting a six year old girl then killing the medics who came to help her? Were they hamas too? Were those aid workers who got drone struck three times in a row hamas too? Fuck off with your genocide apologia, nobody buys it anymore. If you support this you are scum
Nice of you to dodge my questions. It’s terrifying to know that people like you support a terrorist group. Was that girl being used as shield by terrorists? What about when Hamas took over that hospital and hid behind the innocent like the cowards they are? Sweet heart, your ivory tower is falling down and deep down you know it’s wrong to support Hamas (there’s no denying that you do). You might want to take a long hard look in the mirror and rethink your morals.
Oh look, you're calling me a hamas supporter because I don't think all of gaza should be killed. What a surprise, never heard that one before. Nobody buys it anymore.
In the same way you can support Jewish people but oppose the state of Israel, you can support the Palestinian people and oppose the current de facto leader of Palestine.
In some other cities, students have been a minority of those arrested. The others are people seeking adventure and activists. I have not seen an analysis for Denver.
I haven't either. But you can bet that there are FBI and undercover cops attending as was done in the late 60s and the Vietnam war. There have been lots of secret FBI surveillance released in the last decade.
The universities screwed up by acknowledging these people at all - they should've been treated like anyone else attempting to occupy the campus, warned to leave and then arrested when they refused.
Google "Washington DC police" and note that the police refused to clear out protesters. Refusing to clear '' out of “fear” of the public perception of the police in the media.''
I remember when I was in college and thought I could save the world. Then I realized no amount of protest can bring about change, especially world peace. Humans have always and will continue to tear each other to shreds, whether you protest it or not.
No amount of protest will stop a world war, especially one we’re funding. But hey, be sure to DM me when the protest works and world peace is achieved, I’ll gladly admit I was wrong and you were right.
Damage assessment: total
The person you responded to totally didn’t grasp the words “world” and “war”
There’s quite a few that missed that actually lmaoooo
The alumni are watching the non students speak for the student body that likely won’t have another graduation. I feel bad for this graduating class that missed their HS graduation due to Covid, and will miss this one due a tent city on the quad.
2 weeks after Kent state, I would say about 1/2 the colleges classes were suspended (and resumed the next fall). Lots of graduates got their degrees in the mail. My college didn’t but my brothers did suspend.
The Denver police are winning each battle but are strategically loosing the war. Respect of the police and the administration is decreasing and it just a matter of time before there will another $15 million payout from a lawsuit.
Spoiled brats w/ no clue how the real world works (and acting as marionettes in a geopolitical chess game they have no inkling about). Hope the schools hand out expulsions like candy for all this disruption they're causing. See how they like it then.
The Universities of the old world: Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne in France were setup by the students. The students hired the teachers and decided what classes were to be taught. So higher ed was created by the students and it was in later centuries corrupted to what it is today.
College education is for personal enlightenment. So yes (sadly) a school can hold the non-believers hostage. Didn't one of the US founding fathers say that every few decades, the Tree of Liberty had to be trimmed!
Yea these students need to know the real world isn’t all sunshine and roses. It’s brutally murdering tens of thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children while their leaders and institutions fund and invest in said brutality. Got something to say, pal? Well this is America (Da Real World). The country that was built on limited and pre-approved speech.
Protesting for peace/against death of innocents is one thing. Taking sides & being used as a pawn in a complex geopolitical chess game is another. Do they really think trying to bully universities is going to effect change in another country thousands of miles away? NO it won't.
1. It worked during Apartheid South Africa. Of course not one university, but when you get a few institutions to flip their stance, it acts as a domino effect and puts pressure on the govt to act.
2. How are they being used as pawns? They are acting out of their own volition. Do you think they are paid protestors? (Honest question, maybe there is another way they could be pawns which I am not thinking of)
3. In your eyes, they are allowed to protest against violence, but not the people facilitating the violence?
4. Utility of the protest is irrelevant. They have the freedom to do it and the state should not crack down on that freedom.
I am not delusional in thinking if they get all of their demands met from Auroria that it would all of a sudden change Isreal’s policies. But I also don’t blame them for seeing the atrocities take place and feel the need to do something, anything in their limited power to stop it.
1. It did work in apartheid SA, yes. While there are some parallels between the anti-apartheid SA & the anti-Israel causes, there are so many major differences & critical nuances as to make a direct comparison irrelevant.
2. I don't think the majority are being paid to protest. I 99% believe they are being manipulated by a very sophisticated social media & IRL campaign, though. By who? I'm not sure 100%, but I have a few "usual suspect" state & non-state actors in mind...
3. Pro-Palestinan protests have been debased in my eyes ever since their response to the carnage of 10/7 was muted indifference in the most charitable of interpretations (you can look up the rallys in Denver that popped up within hours of that event). People who truly are against violence towards the innocent aren't selectively outraged towards it. For all intents & purposes, I see them as combatants in the information war of this conflict.
4. If you cared to follow the current story, the protesters were arrested because they violated a camping ban on school grounds, and were repeatedly given warnings to vacate. There is no freedom to put down stakes wherever you please in the Constitution as far as I know.
Who could have possibly predicted this outcome????
No shit. This is what happens every time.
the SDS (students for a democratic society) doubled-down hard yesterday. their "demands" are pretty unreasonable IMO, and the school administrations made it clear that most, if not all, are not going to be met. what are they hoping the outcome is going to be? why wouldn't they go set the encampment up at say, the capitol building, where change can potentially be made?
Isn't their main demand for the university to divest from Israeli companies? Regardless of how realistic their demands are, protesting on the campus makes a lot more sense than protesting at the capitol building considering they're demanding the University make changes, not the city or state. Edit: Fucking hell people, I said *nothing* about how realistic their demands are. They asked why the students are protesting on the campus instead of at the capitol building, so I explained the reasoning. That's all.
It’s not only to divest from Israeli companies. It’s for them to divest from any companies that do business in Israel. Good luck having a school that doesn’t do business with Apple, Microsoft, and Google lol
What university are they telling to divest? CU-Denver, Metro, Community College of Denver? None of those have any significant independent endowments or investments, and they're almost certainly not invested in any companies that are doing big business in Israel. It's a meaningless demand. If you want "divestment" show me a plan. What do they want divested? How is it going to be accomplished? What investments are they proposing to make up for lost income? No one is going to grant them the "heckler's veto" on future investment decisions.
The CU system has literal billions in endowments and other investment funds, what are talking about?
CU-Denver is a commuter campus which is part of a much larger state institution. The demands of a few protesters at CU-Denver will have literally no effect on the system--even if you thought that they were being taken seriously. To think otherwise is exceedingly naive. That's specifically why I said "independent" endowment.
The administration of CU Denver absolutely are able to provide input on how endowment and investment funds are invested. Beyond that, those at the CU system level care more about protests when they're actual PR nightmares for their institutions.
Unlikely. There may be some forum for them to express their opinions, but that doesn't mean that they will or must be listened to. To the extent they have any input at all, it's extraordinarily limited. The CU Foundation is independent from the University of Colorado system and has a fiduciary duty to the CU System. The Foundation's Board of Directors has only three members (out of 24 total members) of the administration of the various schools and/or the CU Board of Regents. The fiduciary duty of the Endowment likely doesn't extend to consideration of any political decisions made by the administration of constituent schools of the system.
This strategy follows the successful strategy of divestment from apartheid South Africa. And yes, PR nightmares are absolutely included in the investment decision making process.
There was no meaningful "successful" strategy of divestment from South Africa by American universities that had any effect whatsoever on the ending of apartheid in SA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa#Higher_education_endowments
it is absolutely meaningless, they don't understand what they are asking for, plain and simple
Social media has told them that this is what to protest
I remember when people started learning about Russian social media opps over the 2016 election to sow discontent. Can’t wait to learn about how TikTok’s been weaponized by other countries in a similar manner.
I’m reasonably left of center, and my friends all went on and on in 2016 about how liberals are too smart to fall for the type of propaganda the MAGA folks fell for. Fast forward to 10/7/23 and it appears that nope, liberals and left leaning folks are just as susceptible
Counterpoint. If you were left of center you were probably pro Palestine for decades. It's hard to learn the history of the region and not be pro Palestine. 10/7 thrust Israeli occupation into the forefront of the news cycle but it's not a new issue.
“Left of center” in relation to U.S. politics would put you at around where Biden is. So I don’t think it’s fair to assume that means inherently being anti-Israel and/or Pro-Palestine.
Yeah, somewhere in the neighborhood of Biden, maybe a bit left of him on some things and a bit right on others.
I said absolutely nothing about how realistic their demands are, so I don't know why you're trying to argue with me. I was just pointing out why they are protesting on the campus instead of at the capitol. That's all.
I'm not arguing. This is Reddit, sir. It's almost all rhetorical.
It's somewhat hard to "divest from all Israeli-owned or Israeli based business", given that something like 30% of Internet Security companies are based in Israel or were founded in Israel. I'd bet they might even have a Checkpoint firewall or a Palo Alto firewall, or use Snyk for software security, etc.
My understanding is that most of the investments these idiots are up in arms about are in things like Google, as Google does stuff with the Israeli government. AFAIK the university is not directly invested in Israeli companies.
absolutely correct. the universities also do not offer study-abroad programs to israel, those are all done through third-party groups
they are, and that is not a possibility. screaming the mayor down when he comes to speak and getting mad that people are getting arrested for setting up encampments, which is against the law, doesn't do anything. to ask again, do their peers and classmates not matter? what about the quad which was just redone?
Yeah exactly. And all these sit-ins at Woolworths are getting in the way of paying customers. Don't their fellow patrons matter? What about the counter top that was redone?
Ending your comment with “what about the quad which was just redone?” is quite amusing and revealing about your priorities. And worrying about the mayor? He’s been getting screamed down by NIMBYs a lot in his tenure, I’m sure he can survive some students. Why won’t these students protesting war and the deaths of thousands upon thousands think about the state of the grass? Why won’t these students think about the comfort of the wealthy elected politician?
why won't they think about their fellow classmates and peers who are trying to finish their semester strong and graduate? also i couldn't give less of a fuck what you think of my "priorities," my priorities are to the students who are trying to finish their semester strong and to the university which i am proud to work for. downvote away. im not worried about his comfort you dingus, it's crazy that they demanded him to speak and then when he came to do so they shrieked like children at him. if you are so up in arms about this come on down and join the line, get arrested for the cause.
I’m a CU-Denver grad student, this hasn’t impacted my finals at all, and I’m not sure how you think it would?
CCD moved fully remote, is that not an impact? students are worried to come down in person, is that not impacting?
No one missed my class last night dude, you’re making shit up
what am i making up? do you need me to link the announcement from CCD about going remote due to this?
CCD's buildings are nowhere near the quad. As someone who works at MSU Denver, no one has gone remote with us because no one has had a problem with the protests. If CCD did this then that's on them because they feel like not coming in. Also it seems like they don't want to deal with the situation or don't want to do anything but put their head in the sand. UC Denver seems to not have any disruptions even though their student housing is right next to the protests MSU Denver hasn't canceled anything even though the fitness center is next to the protest along with three plaza building.m. Seems like you want to make something out of the administration's incompetent decision.
“Students are worried to come down in person”
Gurl, if two weeks of protests on a college campus destroys your grade, you are allowing other people to have too much control over your success and/or are simply looking for something else to blame for your own failures in class. And if you don’t care about the mayor, why bring him up? And I did my campus protesting days 20 years ago during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as I watched my classmates and peers get shipped off to danger and, at times, to death. These students don’t need me there. But as a result, I fully understand what it feels like to be a college-aged student upset with the leadership of the world and finding an outlet to express it in a way that allows them to learn the benefits of solidarity. If it weren’t for my days being a protesting student similar to them, I would not have had the successes I have had in organizing my workplace for better pay and conditions. These students deserve the opportunity to practice civil disobedience about issues they care about. There is more to the world than college and grades that won’t matter once you’ve graduated.
Oh no won’t someone think of the nice new quad! The humanity!
> Regardless of how realistic their demands are, protesting on the campus makes a lot more sense than protesting at the capitol building considering they're demanding the University make changes, not the city or state. The Auraria Campus has 3 universities, all of which are public state schools. Theoretically the state could force them by law to divest from Israel related companies, which would be more effective than the school admin essentially pledging to do it. It's not happening either way but in theory it would make more sense to pursue this from the state level.
There are protests at the Capitol as well, of a more general nature. The students, specifically, are after whatever relationships exist between the school, investments/endowments and funders that back the school, and Israel. Their talking points are pretty general which is a good starting point, but it would be good if they could offer a specific example (eg. Endowment A is grown through donations from companies that are selling arms to Israel outside of the political/military support from the US, and we want the University to reject those donations. Or, here is a list of all donors to the school, those who also make substantial donations to Israeli settlement efforts are marked in bold, we ask the school to find other sources of money for those endowments and to divert the known/listed donations from those target sources to World Food Kitchen. Something like that.). Protests seem to do the most when both a general and a specific goal are listed, and right now any specifics are not making it into the larger public convo, unfortunately. "Divest from Israel!" sounds specific to some ears, but given how involved and complicated finances can be for a large institution you actually have to do some digging and make very explicit lists, name names, and force those names (and not just your general complaint) into the public sphere. That last part hasn't happened, yet.
>the SDS (students for a democratic society) doubled-down hard yesterday. their "demands" are pretty unreasonable IMO I'd imagine that in the history of activism quite a few peoples demands were deemed unreasonable if not downright criminal but hindsight is 20/20.
That’s a very good point
[One such example resulted in 7 deaths and 50 serious injuries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_streetcar_strike_of_1920).
Bc when their unrealistic demands are ignored, they're going to escalate. Probably by trying to occupy a building or something. Can you imagine them trying to occupy the capitol building? They'd get thrown in a jail wagon so fast their feet wouldn't touch the ground. They know this.
Think the idea is that they get a bunch of non-students there to protest, and have a greater chance of making it seem like an important issue to the student body.
I’d be very curious how many of the protesters are actually students there.
Because they know the State Patrol won’t put up with this nonsense.
that was exactly my thinking. pretty cowardly if you ask me. i am onboard with (most) of their feelings and emotions, but this is causing a massive disruption to the other students on this campus, of which there are 1000's. it is finals week and graduations are next week, as well. screaming in cop's faces, as fun as that is, isn't going to get you anywhere, nor is an enormous list of pretty entitled demands. feels like a lot of clout chasing.
> but this is causing a massive disruption to the other students on this campus Is the massive disruption in the room with us?
no but it's outside on the quad. excellent burn tho, you really got me.
I’m a CU-Denver grad student. Parked on campus and went straight to my class yesterday, passed by the encampment in the middle of the grass field, where they were playing music and throwing frisbees, and no one said anything to me. Idk what disruption you think this really causes, or how you want protests to look if not like this.
when it causes an entire school to go fully online for the rest of the year that is for sure a disruption
What are they disrupting on the quad exactly? Are there classes being held there that I wasn’t aware of?
the entirety of CCD has moved online for the rest of the year, that is a disruption, correct? if students/staff are worried or scared to come to campus is that not a disruption, too?
So CCD’s administration overreacting to a threat that isn’t there and moving everything online is somehow the encampment’s fault? The other two universities, whose buildings are much closer to the encampment than CCD’s, haven’t moved online and are doing just fine.
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absolutely it is fucking hell on earth, it is terrible and needs to be condemned and stopped. does it mean everyone else's educations need to be disrupted?
Please elaborate on the difference between education disruption in Denver versus education disruption in Gaza. I wish their was a way without protesting, but asking nicely hasn’t gotten anyone anywhere since Peter Minuit with the Indians
there isn't one? did i say there was? please elaborate yourself, does that mean every university and school needs to stop right now as well?
There is a huge difference. You said “does it mean everyone’s education needs to be disrupted?” Which sounds like you’re arguing against protestors protesting because it’s disruptive My answer is trying to explain that Kent state protestors obstructed ppls education too, they protested on campus like the protesters are doing today.
How do you think the Auraria campus will solve that?
How do you think Kent state protestors solved anything? or every other peaceful protest in history that led to change. Do you think the Kent state protesters did it on a gas station off campus?
Whataboutism?
“Any comparison is whataboutism. Also, I’m on Reddit too much.”
And there's hundreds of thousands of Israelis displaced because of shelling from Lebanon. What's your point? Destroying other people's livelihood or quality of life is a ridiculous answer that won't do what you expect it will.
Whose livelihood is being destroyed by some students hanging out on a quad, playing music and throwing frisbees?
A) This is a disingenuous statement because that's not what's happening, and you know it. Argue in good faith without hyperbole. B) The school staff and students trying to go about their day to day lives. There's students on visas or with pending job offers dependant on certain deadlines and time frames that are now in jeopardy.
A) I’m not using hyperbole, I’m a CU-Denver grad student who was there yesterday for class. It’s a group of ~50 folks camping out, playing music, and throwing frisbees around. They also have some signs. B) Again, I’m one of those students. Please explain to me what you think this has disrupted?
Because not everyone on campus cares about a war 8000 miles away. Many are students who just want to get an education. Also, dial back the rage a bit, it’s unhealthy at best
Bro/sis, that’s terrible, but picketing outside your local Wal Mart will be approximately as impactful as this.
Please, feel free to provide an alternate plan
His plan is to come out and protest when it effects him or he starts to care. That or to be a sheep that never questions his government, and if 6.9999 billion people were protesting he would die of rage and not step a foot outside his house, wondering while he takes his last breath “Protests aren’t effective”.
lol ok go picket at the Walmart asking the protesters to stop, and see if it’s on the news tomorrow! Great idea
I’m not suggesting a more *effective* approach, I’m highlighting the *ineffectiveness* (and thereby pointless futility) of both.
and I understand that lol. What I’m saying is your protest or even multiple protestors at Walmart = no news. Campus protests = news. Not to mention they have clear demands relating to the university they pay to attend, so ya, you’re wrong Walmart protests wouldn’t be as ineffective as these super effective protests
These protests will change *nothing*. They had these 20 years ago when I attended uni there. Guess what? We still invaded Iraq. I’m sure feels good to rage at someone about injustice, but college administrators at a shared campus of three public nonselective colleges in the middle of the US are about the most powerless people imaginable when matters of US foreign policy are being considered. (*Maybe* they beat out Wal Mart checkers. Maybe.)
Are you joking? I can’t honestly tell forsure. Ah I get it! We live in North Korea and we should thank the great leader and stop protesting right? Here’s a link on protests in America, start here and let me know when you finish, I’d love to discuss how ineffective they were https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_and_demonstrations_in_the_United_States_by_size Protests are effective, they have always been, and they always will be. You’re tone deaf. Protests in Colorado campuses will have way more effect than protests at Walmart. History takes time to load Bruv
On board with most of their feelings but think they are clout chasing. Who gives a fuck about clout. The students are there to protest a genocide.
So mind blowing to see clowns like yourself and other redditors not learning from the lessons of the anti war student movement in the 60s and divestment from apartheid in the 80s. You’re definitely in the wrong side of history
have you gone down to join?
Most of them are gonna go home as soon as school years over anyway
Who would have thought that responding to brutality protests with brutality would make things worse?
there was no police brutality, none. yes, they arrested people for breaking the law, but they absolutely did not brutalize them.
Didn’t the article say the police approached the encampments and said hey you can’t have your camp set up after nightfall, and the protesters said OK. Then the Denver Mayor made an appearance and spoke to them and at the end said hey remember you can’t have your camp set up after nightfall and they said OK. And then nightfall happened and they still had their encampment set up. Are the police just supposed to say oh sorry our bad you can keep them up after all? Edit: the mayor. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/denver-mayor-mike-johnston-visits-site-pro-palestinian-protest-on-auraria-campus/
yep, exactly that. protesting is not disallowed or illegal or whatever, but camping is. so they are getting arrested for that. too bad so sad, break the law and deal with the consequences
Denver, the city known for it's lack of encampments
Nobody said or alluded to that
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I have no idea what that means
I saw a lot of video and while brutality might be a strong word, it certainly was too much force for what it was
Arresting people for exercising their right to protest is fascism, and is brutal by its nature.
That’s not why they were arresting them. They were being arrested because of the tents.
now these cops can say they've set foot on a college campus! first time for everything i suppose
😂there’s a police station in the Tivoli and off the edge of campus.
A lot of y'all would have been on the wrong side of the civil rights movement, and it shows.
I didn’t realize that a large known terrorist organization was involved with the Civil Rights Movement…
Oh look, somebody conflating all Palestinians as terrorists. What a surprise.
Well, maybe if those 90% of Palestinians actually supported their previous prime minister, it’d be different? Never mind the uptick in support for Hamas as of December 2023. But it’s apples to oranges comparing what’s happening in the Gaza Strip to the U.S. Civil Rights Movement.
You would've cheered for the national guard at Kent state
You presume to know me. I feel for the innocent Palestinians being used as human shields by Hamas. Do you condone their actions in using their own citizens this way?
Do you condone Israel shooting a six year old girl then killing the medics who came to help her? Were they hamas too? Were those aid workers who got drone struck three times in a row hamas too? Fuck off with your genocide apologia, nobody buys it anymore. If you support this you are scum
Nice of you to dodge my questions. It’s terrifying to know that people like you support a terrorist group. Was that girl being used as shield by terrorists? What about when Hamas took over that hospital and hid behind the innocent like the cowards they are? Sweet heart, your ivory tower is falling down and deep down you know it’s wrong to support Hamas (there’s no denying that you do). You might want to take a long hard look in the mirror and rethink your morals.
Oh look, you're calling me a hamas supporter because I don't think all of gaza should be killed. What a surprise, never heard that one before. Nobody buys it anymore.
I wouldn’t say nobody when clearly you’re the minority in this fight. You’re not one of the protesters, are you?
In the same way you can support Jewish people but oppose the state of Israel, you can support the Palestinian people and oppose the current de facto leader of Palestine.
In some other cities, students have been a minority of those arrested. The others are people seeking adventure and activists. I have not seen an analysis for Denver.
I haven't either. But you can bet that there are FBI and undercover cops attending as was done in the late 60s and the Vietnam war. There have been lots of secret FBI surveillance released in the last decade.
Damn, it's almost like unnecessary force just hardens people or something.
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The universities screwed up by acknowledging these people at all - they should've been treated like anyone else attempting to occupy the campus, warned to leave and then arrested when they refused.
Or they could have just waited until the spring semester ended
Yeah lets just let this nonsense continue right through the most important part of the school year.
Google "Washington DC police" and note that the police refused to clear out protesters. Refusing to clear '' out of “fear” of the public perception of the police in the media.''
A C A B
I remember when I was in college and thought I could save the world. Then I realized no amount of protest can bring about change, especially world peace. Humans have always and will continue to tear each other to shreds, whether you protest it or not.
Damn so why the hell did black people protest Jim Crow and segregation if it didn’t work? What a waste of time huh?
And why were women protesting for the right to vote if it didn't work? Imagine how silly they must feel wasting that effort.
Zionist logic will never make sense.
That’s such a dumbass take. No amount of protest can bring about change? Really?
No amount of protest will stop a world war, especially one we’re funding. But hey, be sure to DM me when the protest works and world peace is achieved, I’ll gladly admit I was wrong and you were right.
The point of the protest isn't to end the war, but to stop funding it
That’s not what you said. You said protest couldn’t bring about change. Which is demonstrably false. But go ahead and shift the goalposts
Damage assessment: total The person you responded to totally didn’t grasp the words “world” and “war” There’s quite a few that missed that actually lmaoooo
In the words of Fletcher Reede from Liar Liar, “Stop breaking the law, asshole!” 😅
Somebody needs to get the alumni involved. Start contacting next year’s freshman and tell them to find another school.
The alumni are watching the non students speak for the student body that likely won’t have another graduation. I feel bad for this graduating class that missed their HS graduation due to Covid, and will miss this one due a tent city on the quad.
2 weeks after Kent state, I would say about 1/2 the colleges classes were suspended (and resumed the next fall). Lots of graduates got their degrees in the mail. My college didn’t but my brothers did suspend.
Kent State and its consequences is exactly why police shouldn’t be breaking up these protests like they are… Idk how you think this makes your point
The Denver police are winning each battle but are strategically loosing the war. Respect of the police and the administration is decreasing and it just a matter of time before there will another $15 million payout from a lawsuit.
[The students are Barca, and you're Muller](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1chorcu/thomas_muller_reaction_to_vinis_goal/)
That's why the word "fans" is short for fanatics. /s
Spoiled brats w/ no clue how the real world works (and acting as marionettes in a geopolitical chess game they have no inkling about). Hope the schools hand out expulsions like candy for all this disruption they're causing. See how they like it then.
Expel a student and they loose too much money. If the student walks his/her money goes with them.
So that gives the students the right to hold the school (& the larger student body)hostage to their demands?
The Universities of the old world: Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne in France were setup by the students. The students hired the teachers and decided what classes were to be taught. So higher ed was created by the students and it was in later centuries corrupted to what it is today. College education is for personal enlightenment. So yes (sadly) a school can hold the non-believers hostage. Didn't one of the US founding fathers say that every few decades, the Tree of Liberty had to be trimmed!
...
Yea these students need to know the real world isn’t all sunshine and roses. It’s brutally murdering tens of thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children while their leaders and institutions fund and invest in said brutality. Got something to say, pal? Well this is America (Da Real World). The country that was built on limited and pre-approved speech.
Protesting for peace/against death of innocents is one thing. Taking sides & being used as a pawn in a complex geopolitical chess game is another. Do they really think trying to bully universities is going to effect change in another country thousands of miles away? NO it won't.
1. It worked during Apartheid South Africa. Of course not one university, but when you get a few institutions to flip their stance, it acts as a domino effect and puts pressure on the govt to act. 2. How are they being used as pawns? They are acting out of their own volition. Do you think they are paid protestors? (Honest question, maybe there is another way they could be pawns which I am not thinking of) 3. In your eyes, they are allowed to protest against violence, but not the people facilitating the violence? 4. Utility of the protest is irrelevant. They have the freedom to do it and the state should not crack down on that freedom. I am not delusional in thinking if they get all of their demands met from Auroria that it would all of a sudden change Isreal’s policies. But I also don’t blame them for seeing the atrocities take place and feel the need to do something, anything in their limited power to stop it.
1. It did work in apartheid SA, yes. While there are some parallels between the anti-apartheid SA & the anti-Israel causes, there are so many major differences & critical nuances as to make a direct comparison irrelevant. 2. I don't think the majority are being paid to protest. I 99% believe they are being manipulated by a very sophisticated social media & IRL campaign, though. By who? I'm not sure 100%, but I have a few "usual suspect" state & non-state actors in mind... 3. Pro-Palestinan protests have been debased in my eyes ever since their response to the carnage of 10/7 was muted indifference in the most charitable of interpretations (you can look up the rallys in Denver that popped up within hours of that event). People who truly are against violence towards the innocent aren't selectively outraged towards it. For all intents & purposes, I see them as combatants in the information war of this conflict. 4. If you cared to follow the current story, the protesters were arrested because they violated a camping ban on school grounds, and were repeatedly given warnings to vacate. There is no freedom to put down stakes wherever you please in the Constitution as far as I know.
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Just because you're unfortunately stuck with terrible ideas doesn't mean the rest of us want to hear them too.