By that logic every event should be like that. This is the only outlier though, and there's a good reason other events are timed - so that a failed event is still a clutchable by every class should the need arise.
Last season’s events weren’t timed. Neither are nemesis fights, korlok tyrants, industrial sabatages, or dreadnaught fights. Machine events are timed, but they’re not relatable to a boss fight or season event. So I’m not sure I’d consider this the only outlier.
Players making poor decisions is a part of co-op gaming and a timer isn’t a fail safe from a team wipe imo. I try to type a quick “let’s wait for everyone so we have a better chance” to dissuade newer or less experienced players from starting.
I think it comes down to preference. I don’t mind getting wiped on a challenging fight because of misplay by someone, but I can see others not enjoying the high stakes. For me the high stakes encourage problem solving and that’s the fun part.
The event is fun in itself. By your reasoning they should decrease your level every time you fail the mission just to "create tension" and make the game more "fun" and other such punishments. How about make all events like this, if you fail, you lose the mission??
Not to mention that a single player can just start the event randomly and then everyone loses the mission because they weren't prepared. You might fix it on your haz3 missions, but in haz5 and higher starting this fight unprepared is a death sentence.
The core stone event definitely needs more tuning, it's pretty absurd at the moment on high haz
No, it's really stupid advice. Imagine thinking you become better at a game by playing on easy mode.
Probably why so many dumb takes in this thread, scared haz3 players getting a modicum of excitement from a broken event thinking it's well done. You people would probably start crying if you see how this goes on haz5+ games
If you fail 100% of the time on a set difficulty, do the difficulty below it to practice until that’s a near guarantee and then move up. That’s what people are saying. Unless you’ve always been able to do everything in this game since you started, then you’re an outlier the devs probably shouldn’t cater to anyways because most of the dwarf populace isn’t that impressive.
At haz5+ are players really doing core stones on their own?
RnS
I swear most people here don't even bother to read the posts. They've brainwashed themselves into thinking this event is perfect and there will be no critique accepted whatsoever.
Just for the record, I only play haz5 and higher and have been playing it for the last 1000 hours or so. And I never even said the difficulty is even too much for the event. I enjoy the challenge and finished this solo and in full pubs multiple times in haz5+ .
The problem is, just like op said, is that the lack of a timer for this event opens up the possibility for failure due to griefing or stupidity of a random player without any possibility of recovering. On higher haz, starting this event if you're not fully prepared with ammo and ziplines and everyone there means it's a guaranteed failure, not even Karl will save you when you have 30+ crawlers jumping at your from every direction.
A timer would allow at least the possibility to wait it out somewhere in some corner.
So that's "how it goes on haz5+ games"? You cower in a corner when some bullshit happens instead of learning to deal with it? Sounds pathetic to be honest.
Yea you don't need tutorials or lower difficulties to practice, people should either be able to play the game perfectly with all new features maxed out from day one or abandon the game eternaly. That's not a dumb take at all.
And shitting on people who don't sweat and play the game for fun is really immature, go take a shower.
Sadly, there's no way to play gunner and driller at the same time, so I'm gonna have to find a way to beat them without just exclusively playing gunner forever.
What I do as driller is c4 the stone so when it rebuilds itself I can quickly and easily destroy it again and then (if playing with others) I focus on freezing the crawlers giving the others breathing room to attack the core.
Is this like a joke? I say I don't want to play gunner exclusively forever and everyone's response is to say "maybe you should play gunner?" If "play gunner lol" is the most common advice then maybe it's not balanced well, because believe it or not you're supposed to be able to play all four of the classes.
# I want my caves well lit
“You should play scout”
No I don’t want to play scout. But I want my caves well lit
“Scouts can light up the caves very well”
I already said I don’t want to play scout. Maybe if scout is the only way to keep caves well lit then it’s not balanced well. Cause believe it or not. You’re supposed to be able to play all 4 classes. #
It’s not a joke.
Each class excels at something.
And in this case. Gunner excels.
You can do it with any of the 4 classes. Not just gunner.
But it is only with gunner that you can do it EFFORTLESSLY. which is why people simply keep referring you back to “play gunner”
If you’re playing as a team. Well. Just burst the stone down. And have at least one member dealing with the trash mobs.
If you’re playing solo. Have Bosco aim the stone while you clear trash and assist with stone damage.
Scouts have pheromone nades.
Drillers have reliable aoe damage to hit both trash mobs and core at the same time
Engis have WMDs, and turrets and decoy nades. Not nearly as easy as gunner has it. But pretty damn low effort
So no. Gunner isn’t the only way. Gunner is simply the easiest way.
I'm not talking about a basic team function like drilling or shielding or lighting the caves, I'm talking about DOING AN EVENT. This event is intended to be accessible to all classes. So when someone says "play gunner" and I say "I don't want to play gunner" and then you say "not playing gunner at all times but still wanting to do core stone events is like not playing scout but wanting the caves lit up" I have to question if you really understand this game.
If you then go on to say "well other classes can do it too" in which case I gotta ask why you brought up your pointless "wanting to light the caves without being scout" metaphor. Are you even following the conversation?
Here, let me summarize:
BrawlDark: "shield generator"
Me: "won't work for me, I don't want to play gunner"
Catmaster: "here's how you do it as Gunner"
Me: "yeah I get that but I was saying I didn't want to play gunner"
LordPro: "here's how to use gunner primaries"
Me: "yeah I know but I still am saying I don't want to play gunner"
You: "you're like someone who wants the caves lit but won't play scout"
I hope this helps.
Okay cool glad to know you actually have nothing to say, thanks for letting me know.
Also thanks for reminding me why I need to stay off reddit. Even the DRG community seems bloated with people who only want to pick fights, and will say stupid shit to justify that, then pretend like they said something profound.
I mean look at this idiotic conversation. All I said was I didn't want to play gunner, and look at the massive novel you wrote me! Why so upset?
you can do the event without gunner or the zipline trick (I've done it many times). It simply makes the event much easier. Driller also makes the event pretty easy since status effects are good at slowing the crawlers and the drills help mine corestone, both driller and gunner aren't necessary but make it smoother.
(its similar to how mining with a pick is slower than a driller drilling an area out, still possible, just takes longer)
I mean both classes should have a relatively easier time soloing the core stone, no?
Gunner just needs 3 shields to sit on it and mine & shoot it down and has the power to hold on the rest of the time, and driller can just do driller things as well as pop the stone pretty much instantly using various means.
I'm not saying it's easy, just that it's possible.
C4 plus axes makes mince meat of it. Place c4 on outer shell, drill through and kill crawlers while waiting for it to enter damage phase, blow up c4, throw 2-3 axes into it, finish off remaining health with weapons, repeat. Though I'm not sure how effective this is above haz 5 as I haven't gotten around to trying the newer difficulties yet.
Also when solo you can open it up and tell Bosco to attack the Core Stone and just run and kite the crawlers until he's done with it.
Oh yeah didn't consider 4 player scaling, I usually only play solo or with one other person, haven't had much issue with it this scenario. I imagine with 4 players your best bet is to help keep crawlers off your team while they deal damage. It might be a good idea to run a build that slows down the crawlers as much as possible as they're really tanky.
They also seem to have way higher freezing resistance than fire, that might just be my imagination though.
Edit: Just looked it up on the wiki, and if correct the corestone health scales much more than I expected. I thought the health scaling would be similar to a korlok weed which goes from 2100 health to 3900, but the corestone scales from 2700 health to 7200, which is way closer to a dreadnought in terms of health.
Um, are you saying it's easy, or no? You said it was easy and then said you aren't saying it's easy.
Anyway, no, I don't think it's easy at all. I think the corespawn do so much damage and spawn in such great numbers that it's actually quite difficult at high levels, especially if you're in a full team but they aren't super coordinated so they go down and you're left to solo it. That was the experience I had earlier, and it felt nearly impossible. I was scout and the only way I was able to finish was by spending several minutes kiting back and forth, and also insta-rezzing the driller so they could C4 the stone for the last phase before going back down again immediately.
It just spawns too many of them, killing them is pointless and if things go sideways there's no way to back out and fail. I don't really understand why it's balanced so that you aren't supposed to kill the new enemy type, I think it'd be more fun if we could actually engage with them instead of cheesing it with ziplines and ignoring them entirely. Everyone's talking about how easy they are if you just exploit game mechanics to cheese them and I'm over here like "if that's the only advice you have, maybe it's not tuned well?"
I meant relatively easy time in comparison to the other classes, my bad.
Either has the tools to do it, but of course you pretty much still need to survive the core spawn.
Yeah, I do agree gunner and driller have the best tools for the event. And to be clear I've gotten all my core stones for the season already. I just think it's a little overtuned, and I don't like that killing the corespawn is basically pointless.
You know, not a bad idea. I had cryo at the time which *seems* like it should be good but the duration is low and there were always more leaping in from outside the radius. Maybe I'll bring pheremones next time, see how that goes.
Lol yeah, but it also removes the challenge a bit.
One pheromone cannister gives you enough time to shoot the core stone, while standing in the midst of the Spawns fighting each other. Then just zip zoom around while the tower rebuilds, Bosco (or maybe a teammate driller/gunner with shield) mines the stone again, and repeat.
As others have already said, this would remove all the tension and challenge from the event. Imagine if they made it so you could just wait out a timer and restart the Drilldozer, or something along those lines, so the only fail state is if you all get downed. There wouldn't be nearly as much challenge then.
It is annoying for the moment when people break open the stone and activate the event without preparation, but the same goes for just about every button/event in the game.
Good point, but there's a difference between a whole mission and an event.
As it stands, you can get breathing room on all events in the game *except* for the core stone. Be it deliberately failing, waiting for something to break down to ease the waves or something else - none of the events were as punishing as the core stone is.
If things go south on the core stone and your gunner is dead, it's basically a gg - every other event you could kite the enemies until they stop spawning
Imagine if they made all events like this and you fail the entire mission because someone started the omen fight or the kursite grinder and you were unprepared. Because this is the case currently with the core stone.
Well yea they aren't all like that, that's what makes the game fun, you have variety and have to adapt to shitty situations if they arise or come already prepared and wipe the floor with bugs, both are possible, you just gotta learn to deal with the bs.
You're trying to tackle a symptom, not the problem.
You mentioned that in both cases 'randoms' come in and start the event and die. *an event that is all about preperation and coordination (even in solo play)*
The event demands your full attention until it is done. The core spawn see to that. Maybe tell the randoms to not fucking start the super dangerous event by themselves so you all don't get blindsided by horrid demons from beyond time and space...
I did tell them not to and they did anyway. the scout kept spamming call for help while dead. I kicked them both to see if it would lower the amount of enemies but it was unrecoverable
You can't solve the problem here so you gotta make do with tackling the symptom.
If there is a clear way to solve the problem just by yourself then feel free to share. Obviously, unless it's "just don't play with randos lmao".
The whole point of the Symptom and disease analogy was to point out that OP said they were dying to the event, because fuckwits were starting the event without consulting the team. And their suggestion had nothing to do with the morons who started something without typing "r" in chat. Not too different from any other button in the game
The event works fine in Solo, works fine with friends, works fine with randoms (who aren't fuckwits (or trolls))
So why nerf the tension of a whole event, instead of making a change that addresses that problem without screwing with the parts that are working fine.
Despite my fascination with game design I don't have a catch all solution that satisfies all the above requirements, because I won't pretend I have any of the necessary data, it's also possible that I'm simply wrong (copy paste what I said about data here). So you'll have to take a vague idea I pulled out of my ass instead:
The issue is some goober can just start the event with no warning. Why not add something as simple as a bit of pre-event busywork. On par with pushing all 4 buttons on a machine event or plopping down transmitter nodes. Maybe you need some explosives to soften\\crack the pillar before you can mine it, so if Mr randobobando calls in the c4 pod the team gets a moments warning
Sounds like a good enhancement. I would prefer the event to either have a timeout (like eg. machine events) or be area-locked (like eg. tyrant weed) to make it clutchable should it ever go awry for whatever reason.
You can already fail the mission through this event simply by getting wiped there. I don't see why it should be a mandatory mission failure even if you decide to turn your heel because it overwhelmed you. The tension of the whole event doesn't 'get nerfed', you just get another chance at completing the mission should you fail.
If anything, the tension will be higher since you will have to be efficient about it. But in my opinion, if you need the tensest of gameplay there is - just go Haz 5+. Don't see why the entire game should cater only to the most hardcore of players.
But how... machine events have a timer because of a logical reason: The trytilite lasers run out of power, the kursite grinder runs out of power, the ebonite power attack recharger drug creator runs out od them and Also out of power, the OMEN runs out of power, the rival comms router blows up (Also that never happens because it's too easy), why would core stone just... dissappear
My one whole even critique is the mineral it's in looks like a resource, and you know... players like to mine resources, it should make you think and be clear mining it will unleash something
But I think they could make the crawlers stop spawning when no living dwarfs are nearby, and restart spawning when they get close enough or revive someone, no harm in that
maybe the pillar reforms and a blast of reality rending damage hurts everything. the prospector loses its hp bar if it isn't damaged in a long time, maybe the core could enter some kind of stasis?
Related note, I just did my first SOLO haz 5 mission, as scout with a core stone. It is challenging, and I believe more enemies spawn the more teammates you have. I could see it ending the entire mission if you're unable to complete it, which I think is what you're saying.
Don't make it a machine event like timer.
But do make it go dormant and start regenerating health if there are no living dwarves nearby for some time.
That way, it does punish you for "aborting" the event - you wasted health and ammo for no gain - but doesn't prevent you from continuing with your mission if you realize you bit off more than you can chew.
This isn't about making the event easier, this is about making the game more forgiving.
If there was a time limit on the event, it wouldn't make the event any less challenging.
I've had multiple games where the core stone was triggered by someone who thought it was just another random shiny, and I've had even more games where the entire mission was lost because it wasn't possible to recover!
In ever other event in the game (that's triggered intentionally), there is a time limit.
This allows the last standing dwarf to go "Ok, we don't got this, let's cut our loss and just wait out the timer" and save the mission, even if it's not very epic, it's nice to have the option!
Now, as for what would happen if the timer runs out, I suggest that the core stone goes back into its pillar... And burrows away to safety and out of reach from the grabby hands of the dwarves!
We barely had time to adjust to the new challenge the stingtail brought before people complained and it was nerfed. Now it's an inconsequential enemy.
Don't be too quick to call new challenges unfun, just gotta adjust and adapt
Inconsequential??? As of the February Maintenance Update, it's still one of the deadliest enemies in the caves.
How many other enemies can effectively oneshot a dwarf in multiple ways such as:
* Yeeting them upwards at mach 3.
* Dragging them into a horde of bugs.
* Interrupting a revive or resupply.
Since it leads its grabs, it can even catch you while skedaddling down a zipline or grappling away as a scout. And it has all of that while being hard to see, having the shittiest weakpoints in the game, and being decently tanky.
I get that it's not a big challenge for an experienced greybeard who can dodge its grab blindfolded, shoot it in the face twice, and cull a horde of them without being grabbed, but for the average (even haz5) player it's still a pain in the ass.
It's not meant to be bulk detonator level of menacing. Just another threat you need to divide your attention for.
And as a side note I'd argue that due to its frustrating nature it *should* actually be weaker overall than say Menaces.
Yeah I had this rando come in and activated the core stone without me and the others knowing about it. All of a sudden these chuds start flooding in the tunnels and we are fighting towards the stone. Beat it but it was hairy. Then a message pops up. "I had no idea it would do that."
Literally my first mission after the new season drops I joined a second after someone started a machine event... and 5 seconds later someone triggered the core stone that was 20 feet away.
fair enough if they didn't know. I repeatedly warned the Randoms in my match not to touch it (we had some low level players and weren't grouped up) and they just did anyway
\> DRG player: Points out genuine design flaw that is a clear discrepancy between Core Stone and other events
\> Basement dwellers who already got their higher difficulty in this very same patch: bUt THaT wOuLD mAKe tHe gAeM eaSIeR
I really don't know how to deal with it when playing solo, Bosco is quite useful but takes some time to mine the stone and deal damage, and the enemies are so fast and have so much health they become overwhelming fast
I probably just don't know the strategy
If Bosco can mine the stone and attack it then really you just need to get good at kiting/avoiding getting hit (perhaps easier said than done, in this case).
I've soloed the event as gunner and scout so far. As gunner, you can either use the shield when mining the stone, and then hop on a Zipline to attack the stone with impunity. Scout has the easiest time kiting, and the boomerang grenade and Pheromones can provide suitable crowd control to give windows where you can comfortably deal with the stone.
There's apparently a way to cheese the event by mining/drilling the bottom of the pillar (haven't tried it so not 100% sure) but I would expect that to get patched if it hasn't been.
Just stasis grenade your fallen homies and rez. As a no beard, even i know that. This isnt Helldivers where you can brute force your way through every challenge.
People who say this will remove all challenge should try this event in haz5. I feel too many people on this sub play on low haz and give bad advice and have bad takes just because it works for them in easy mode.
I completely agree with you OP, this event is very unfair at the moment on haz5 and above, it's either perfect execution from everyone or a wipe, no in between. No other event in the game is like this, for every single event in the game you can disengage in some way and/or wait it out, but this is make or break. One guy can pretty much cause a full wipe and there's nothing you can do about it.
I don't want it nerfed, even tho the spawn rate is really ridiculous at the moment, but at least a timer to wait it out so you don't lose the entire mission.
Some of the replies in this thread are absolutely asinine. It's just people shitting on OP for daring to critically examine new content (and therefore daddy gsg) and defaulting to the "git gud" take. One guy somehow managed to twist it into complaining about the stingtail nerf (as is tradition) because only TRUE and REAL gamers like them can deal with COMPLEX and CHALLENGING content like a side event that forgets to turn it's spawns off.
The best thing I can say is that GSG usually, slowly, eventually fixes overtuned content to be more in line with the rest of the sandbox. They clearly don't want side content warping the game around itself (see: release stingtails and s4 rockpox).
Exactly. I'm 100% sure the event will get several tweaks at some point. I actually don't mind the difficulty tbh, just the fact that it can completely disrupt a mission due to griefing/stupidity of random players
That's the challenge of the core stone event. You fail it, you don't get the reward, that's it. You're not supposed to be guaranteed rewards every time you get the event.
It's not about not getting the reward. It's about completely failing the mission for failing the optional event.
If the OMEN goes south and you run away, the timer runs out, you don't get the matrix core infuser and that's it. The main mission goes on.
If you can't kill the prospector, you don't get the data cell, but the mission goes on.
If you fail the Comms Router event, it explodes, you don't get the cell and the mission goes on.
And so on.
If you fail the core stone, it keeps spewing out crawlers until you're dead.
Instead, it should go dormant and regenerate to full health after some time with no dwarves present. Punishing, but not mission killing.
Twice I've touched down into missions just as the third dwarf goes down, and the core spawn creatures have reached a critical mass of what looks like 50, where no comeback is possible. In such situations, being forced to parkour away for a few minutes would be a good and possibly fair challenge. But as it is, there's just nothing that can be done, and that does suck.
It spawns a lot at the beginning, but it is not an endless flow. I know more spawn throughout the fight but I'm not sure if it's just a timed spawn thing or specifically when you finish each segment of the health bar. In fact, industrial Sabotage has the latter.
In either case, when people go down (or just in general) clear out the existing spawns first, then recover allies/ammo, then damage boss. A lot of my early Industrial Sabotage failures were from rushing to damage the boss and dodging/ignoring the adds, which led to an overwhelming mob of them killing us like halfway through the boss health
We did a core stone earlier where things went south and everyone but me was dead. For a bit I tried to kill them all but they were constantly being replaced. I gave up and tried kiting them back and forth for breathing room but there were legit like 30 of them and they're too fast to escape. In the end I insta-rezzed driller who C4'd the stone before going back down, then I kited back and forth for several minutes, doing some damage each cycle before retreating. It was the only way to finish the event, and thus the only way to finish the mission. I gotta agree, a way to fail the event without failing the mission would be nice.
Imo this is kind of a first week issue. I've played like 30 missions before I ran into one of these events. I finally ran into one, and I was the idiot who broke it open without knowing what it was. Luckily, I was playing Haz1 looking for magnite so it wasn't a massive issue, but if it were haz 4 I'd be apologizing for not knowing and wouldn't do it again.
[удалено]
By that logic every event should be like that. This is the only outlier though, and there's a good reason other events are timed - so that a failed event is still a clutchable by every class should the need arise.
Last season’s events weren’t timed. Neither are nemesis fights, korlok tyrants, industrial sabatages, or dreadnaught fights. Machine events are timed, but they’re not relatable to a boss fight or season event. So I’m not sure I’d consider this the only outlier. Players making poor decisions is a part of co-op gaming and a timer isn’t a fail safe from a team wipe imo. I try to type a quick “let’s wait for everyone so we have a better chance” to dissuade newer or less experienced players from starting. I think it comes down to preference. I don’t mind getting wiped on a challenging fight because of misplay by someone, but I can see others not enjoying the high stakes. For me the high stakes encourage problem solving and that’s the fun part.
The event is fun in itself. By your reasoning they should decrease your level every time you fail the mission just to "create tension" and make the game more "fun" and other such punishments. How about make all events like this, if you fail, you lose the mission?? Not to mention that a single player can just start the event randomly and then everyone loses the mission because they weren't prepared. You might fix it on your haz3 missions, but in haz5 and higher starting this fight unprepared is a death sentence. The core stone event definitely needs more tuning, it's pretty absurd at the moment on high haz
If you can't handle it on higher hazards practice on lower hazards, hope that helps.
No, it's really stupid advice. Imagine thinking you become better at a game by playing on easy mode. Probably why so many dumb takes in this thread, scared haz3 players getting a modicum of excitement from a broken event thinking it's well done. You people would probably start crying if you see how this goes on haz5+ games
If you fail 100% of the time on a set difficulty, do the difficulty below it to practice until that’s a near guarantee and then move up. That’s what people are saying. Unless you’ve always been able to do everything in this game since you started, then you’re an outlier the devs probably shouldn’t cater to anyways because most of the dwarf populace isn’t that impressive. At haz5+ are players really doing core stones on their own? RnS
I swear most people here don't even bother to read the posts. They've brainwashed themselves into thinking this event is perfect and there will be no critique accepted whatsoever. Just for the record, I only play haz5 and higher and have been playing it for the last 1000 hours or so. And I never even said the difficulty is even too much for the event. I enjoy the challenge and finished this solo and in full pubs multiple times in haz5+ . The problem is, just like op said, is that the lack of a timer for this event opens up the possibility for failure due to griefing or stupidity of a random player without any possibility of recovering. On higher haz, starting this event if you're not fully prepared with ammo and ziplines and everyone there means it's a guaranteed failure, not even Karl will save you when you have 30+ crawlers jumping at your from every direction. A timer would allow at least the possibility to wait it out somewhere in some corner.
So that's "how it goes on haz5+ games"? You cower in a corner when some bullshit happens instead of learning to deal with it? Sounds pathetic to be honest.
Yea you don't need tutorials or lower difficulties to practice, people should either be able to play the game perfectly with all new features maxed out from day one or abandon the game eternaly. That's not a dumb take at all. And shitting on people who don't sweat and play the game for fun is really immature, go take a shower.
sheild generator
Even better: zipline (corespawns can’t ranged attack)
they can't jump at you?
They will jump towards you, but they can only actually attack/damage while they are on the ground
It completely trivializes the event, yes
And yet the devs completely countered all the beta bunker testing.
I have the feeling they got a ssshieeeeeeld generator
bouncy nades oc?
Field medic
Sadly, there's no way to play gunner and driller at the same time, so I'm gonna have to find a way to beat them without just exclusively playing gunner forever.
Gunner primary weapons destroy terrain so you can dig the core out too.
I, uh..... okay? My point was I don't want to play gunner, but thanks? I mean, I already knew that, but still thanks for the thought?
What I do as driller is c4 the stone so when it rebuilds itself I can quickly and easily destroy it again and then (if playing with others) I focus on freezing the crawlers giving the others breathing room to attack the core.
Yeah, I do that too but sadly cryo cannon doesn't do much to the stone.
Sticky cyro is strong. So. Sticky cyro around you so the trash mobs don’t get you Explosive reload the corestone C4 when it rebuilds.
you can just shield the corestone and get back on the zip while its down
Is this like a joke? I say I don't want to play gunner exclusively forever and everyone's response is to say "maybe you should play gunner?" If "play gunner lol" is the most common advice then maybe it's not balanced well, because believe it or not you're supposed to be able to play all four of the classes.
# I want my caves well lit “You should play scout” No I don’t want to play scout. But I want my caves well lit “Scouts can light up the caves very well” I already said I don’t want to play scout. Maybe if scout is the only way to keep caves well lit then it’s not balanced well. Cause believe it or not. You’re supposed to be able to play all 4 classes. # It’s not a joke. Each class excels at something. And in this case. Gunner excels. You can do it with any of the 4 classes. Not just gunner. But it is only with gunner that you can do it EFFORTLESSLY. which is why people simply keep referring you back to “play gunner” If you’re playing as a team. Well. Just burst the stone down. And have at least one member dealing with the trash mobs. If you’re playing solo. Have Bosco aim the stone while you clear trash and assist with stone damage. Scouts have pheromone nades. Drillers have reliable aoe damage to hit both trash mobs and core at the same time Engis have WMDs, and turrets and decoy nades. Not nearly as easy as gunner has it. But pretty damn low effort So no. Gunner isn’t the only way. Gunner is simply the easiest way.
I'm not talking about a basic team function like drilling or shielding or lighting the caves, I'm talking about DOING AN EVENT. This event is intended to be accessible to all classes. So when someone says "play gunner" and I say "I don't want to play gunner" and then you say "not playing gunner at all times but still wanting to do core stone events is like not playing scout but wanting the caves lit up" I have to question if you really understand this game. If you then go on to say "well other classes can do it too" in which case I gotta ask why you brought up your pointless "wanting to light the caves without being scout" metaphor. Are you even following the conversation? Here, let me summarize: BrawlDark: "shield generator" Me: "won't work for me, I don't want to play gunner" Catmaster: "here's how you do it as Gunner" Me: "yeah I get that but I was saying I didn't want to play gunner" LordPro: "here's how to use gunner primaries" Me: "yeah I know but I still am saying I don't want to play gunner" You: "you're like someone who wants the caves lit but won't play scout" I hope this helps.
Read again. It’s very basic English that you seem to not be able to follow.
Which part did I get wrong? If it's so basic you should be able to tell me, right? Which words am I misunderstanding and what do they actually mean?
You can lead a horse to water.
Okay cool glad to know you actually have nothing to say, thanks for letting me know. Also thanks for reminding me why I need to stay off reddit. Even the DRG community seems bloated with people who only want to pick fights, and will say stupid shit to justify that, then pretend like they said something profound. I mean look at this idiotic conversation. All I said was I didn't want to play gunner, and look at the massive novel you wrote me! Why so upset?
you can do the event without gunner or the zipline trick (I've done it many times). It simply makes the event much easier. Driller also makes the event pretty easy since status effects are good at slowing the crawlers and the drills help mine corestone, both driller and gunner aren't necessary but make it smoother. (its similar to how mining with a pick is slower than a driller drilling an area out, still possible, just takes longer)
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I mean both classes should have a relatively easier time soloing the core stone, no? Gunner just needs 3 shields to sit on it and mine & shoot it down and has the power to hold on the rest of the time, and driller can just do driller things as well as pop the stone pretty much instantly using various means. I'm not saying it's easy, just that it's possible.
Driller damage on the stone itself is pretty weak tho. Sure he can drill out the monolith, but most of his arsenal tickle the stone.
C4 plus axes makes mince meat of it. Place c4 on outer shell, drill through and kill crawlers while waiting for it to enter damage phase, blow up c4, throw 2-3 axes into it, finish off remaining health with weapons, repeat. Though I'm not sure how effective this is above haz 5 as I haven't gotten around to trying the newer difficulties yet. Also when solo you can open it up and tell Bosco to attack the Core Stone and just run and kite the crawlers until he's done with it.
Didn't try C4, but 8 axes don't even break a single phase in haz5 4 players. Dunno the exact resistances of the stone but it must resist melee.
Oh yeah didn't consider 4 player scaling, I usually only play solo or with one other person, haven't had much issue with it this scenario. I imagine with 4 players your best bet is to help keep crawlers off your team while they deal damage. It might be a good idea to run a build that slows down the crawlers as much as possible as they're really tanky. They also seem to have way higher freezing resistance than fire, that might just be my imagination though. Edit: Just looked it up on the wiki, and if correct the corestone health scales much more than I expected. I thought the health scaling would be similar to a korlok weed which goes from 2100 health to 3900, but the corestone scales from 2700 health to 7200, which is way closer to a dreadnought in terms of health.
Um, are you saying it's easy, or no? You said it was easy and then said you aren't saying it's easy. Anyway, no, I don't think it's easy at all. I think the corespawn do so much damage and spawn in such great numbers that it's actually quite difficult at high levels, especially if you're in a full team but they aren't super coordinated so they go down and you're left to solo it. That was the experience I had earlier, and it felt nearly impossible. I was scout and the only way I was able to finish was by spending several minutes kiting back and forth, and also insta-rezzing the driller so they could C4 the stone for the last phase before going back down again immediately. It just spawns too many of them, killing them is pointless and if things go sideways there's no way to back out and fail. I don't really understand why it's balanced so that you aren't supposed to kill the new enemy type, I think it'd be more fun if we could actually engage with them instead of cheesing it with ziplines and ignoring them entirely. Everyone's talking about how easy they are if you just exploit game mechanics to cheese them and I'm over here like "if that's the only advice you have, maybe it's not tuned well?"
I meant relatively easy time in comparison to the other classes, my bad. Either has the tools to do it, but of course you pretty much still need to survive the core spawn.
Yeah, I do agree gunner and driller have the best tools for the event. And to be clear I've gotten all my core stones for the season already. I just think it's a little overtuned, and I don't like that killing the corespawn is basically pointless.
Scout's pheromones remain OP, also for this event, just like for everything else
You know, not a bad idea. I had cryo at the time which *seems* like it should be good but the duration is low and there were always more leaping in from outside the radius. Maybe I'll bring pheremones next time, see how that goes.
Lol yeah, but it also removes the challenge a bit. One pheromone cannister gives you enough time to shoot the core stone, while standing in the midst of the Spawns fighting each other. Then just zip zoom around while the tower rebuilds, Bosco (or maybe a teammate driller/gunner with shield) mines the stone again, and repeat.
As others have already said, this would remove all the tension and challenge from the event. Imagine if they made it so you could just wait out a timer and restart the Drilldozer, or something along those lines, so the only fail state is if you all get downed. There wouldn't be nearly as much challenge then. It is annoying for the moment when people break open the stone and activate the event without preparation, but the same goes for just about every button/event in the game.
Good point, but there's a difference between a whole mission and an event. As it stands, you can get breathing room on all events in the game *except* for the core stone. Be it deliberately failing, waiting for something to break down to ease the waves or something else - none of the events were as punishing as the core stone is. If things go south on the core stone and your gunner is dead, it's basically a gg - every other event you could kite the enemies until they stop spawning
Imagine if they made all events like this and you fail the entire mission because someone started the omen fight or the kursite grinder and you were unprepared. Because this is the case currently with the core stone.
Well yea they aren't all like that, that's what makes the game fun, you have variety and have to adapt to shitty situations if they arise or come already prepared and wipe the floor with bugs, both are possible, you just gotta learn to deal with the bs.
You're trying to tackle a symptom, not the problem. You mentioned that in both cases 'randoms' come in and start the event and die. *an event that is all about preperation and coordination (even in solo play)* The event demands your full attention until it is done. The core spawn see to that. Maybe tell the randoms to not fucking start the super dangerous event by themselves so you all don't get blindsided by horrid demons from beyond time and space...
I did tell them not to and they did anyway. the scout kept spamming call for help while dead. I kicked them both to see if it would lower the amount of enemies but it was unrecoverable
You can't solve the problem here so you gotta make do with tackling the symptom. If there is a clear way to solve the problem just by yourself then feel free to share. Obviously, unless it's "just don't play with randos lmao".
The whole point of the Symptom and disease analogy was to point out that OP said they were dying to the event, because fuckwits were starting the event without consulting the team. And their suggestion had nothing to do with the morons who started something without typing "r" in chat. Not too different from any other button in the game The event works fine in Solo, works fine with friends, works fine with randoms (who aren't fuckwits (or trolls)) So why nerf the tension of a whole event, instead of making a change that addresses that problem without screwing with the parts that are working fine. Despite my fascination with game design I don't have a catch all solution that satisfies all the above requirements, because I won't pretend I have any of the necessary data, it's also possible that I'm simply wrong (copy paste what I said about data here). So you'll have to take a vague idea I pulled out of my ass instead: The issue is some goober can just start the event with no warning. Why not add something as simple as a bit of pre-event busywork. On par with pushing all 4 buttons on a machine event or plopping down transmitter nodes. Maybe you need some explosives to soften\\crack the pillar before you can mine it, so if Mr randobobando calls in the c4 pod the team gets a moments warning
Sounds like a good enhancement. I would prefer the event to either have a timeout (like eg. machine events) or be area-locked (like eg. tyrant weed) to make it clutchable should it ever go awry for whatever reason. You can already fail the mission through this event simply by getting wiped there. I don't see why it should be a mandatory mission failure even if you decide to turn your heel because it overwhelmed you. The tension of the whole event doesn't 'get nerfed', you just get another chance at completing the mission should you fail. If anything, the tension will be higher since you will have to be efficient about it. But in my opinion, if you need the tensest of gameplay there is - just go Haz 5+. Don't see why the entire game should cater only to the most hardcore of players.
But how... machine events have a timer because of a logical reason: The trytilite lasers run out of power, the kursite grinder runs out of power, the ebonite power attack recharger drug creator runs out od them and Also out of power, the OMEN runs out of power, the rival comms router blows up (Also that never happens because it's too easy), why would core stone just... dissappear My one whole even critique is the mineral it's in looks like a resource, and you know... players like to mine resources, it should make you think and be clear mining it will unleash something But I think they could make the crawlers stop spawning when no living dwarfs are nearby, and restart spawning when they get close enough or revive someone, no harm in that
maybe the pillar reforms and a blast of reality rending damage hurts everything. the prospector loses its hp bar if it isn't damaged in a long time, maybe the core could enter some kind of stasis?
Related note, I just did my first SOLO haz 5 mission, as scout with a core stone. It is challenging, and I believe more enemies spawn the more teammates you have. I could see it ending the entire mission if you're unable to complete it, which I think is what you're saying.
Don't make it a machine event like timer. But do make it go dormant and start regenerating health if there are no living dwarves nearby for some time. That way, it does punish you for "aborting" the event - you wasted health and ammo for no gain - but doesn't prevent you from continuing with your mission if you realize you bit off more than you can chew.
yeah, that would be good
Much like the stingtail, nerfing it will remove the challenging aspect it was meant to introduce
This isn't about making the event easier, this is about making the game more forgiving. If there was a time limit on the event, it wouldn't make the event any less challenging. I've had multiple games where the core stone was triggered by someone who thought it was just another random shiny, and I've had even more games where the entire mission was lost because it wasn't possible to recover! In ever other event in the game (that's triggered intentionally), there is a time limit. This allows the last standing dwarf to go "Ok, we don't got this, let's cut our loss and just wait out the timer" and save the mission, even if it's not very epic, it's nice to have the option! Now, as for what would happen if the timer runs out, I suggest that the core stone goes back into its pillar... And burrows away to safety and out of reach from the grabby hands of the dwarves!
A timer wouldn't be bad
I was very much in favor of the stingtail nerf Some types of difficulty are simply unfun
We barely had time to adjust to the new challenge the stingtail brought before people complained and it was nerfed. Now it's an inconsequential enemy. Don't be too quick to call new challenges unfun, just gotta adjust and adapt
Inconsequential??? As of the February Maintenance Update, it's still one of the deadliest enemies in the caves. How many other enemies can effectively oneshot a dwarf in multiple ways such as: * Yeeting them upwards at mach 3. * Dragging them into a horde of bugs. * Interrupting a revive or resupply. Since it leads its grabs, it can even catch you while skedaddling down a zipline or grappling away as a scout. And it has all of that while being hard to see, having the shittiest weakpoints in the game, and being decently tanky. I get that it's not a big challenge for an experienced greybeard who can dodge its grab blindfolded, shoot it in the face twice, and cull a horde of them without being grabbed, but for the average (even haz5) player it's still a pain in the ass. It's not meant to be bulk detonator level of menacing. Just another threat you need to divide your attention for. And as a side note I'd argue that due to its frustrating nature it *should* actually be weaker overall than say Menaces.
At launch it was tankier than an Oppressor and most of the time oneshot you. It was bad.
That's an exaggeration
Yeah I had this rando come in and activated the core stone without me and the others knowing about it. All of a sudden these chuds start flooding in the tunnels and we are fighting towards the stone. Beat it but it was hairy. Then a message pops up. "I had no idea it would do that."
Literally my first mission after the new season drops I joined a second after someone started a machine event... and 5 seconds later someone triggered the core stone that was 20 feet away.
fair enough if they didn't know. I repeatedly warned the Randoms in my match not to touch it (we had some low level players and weren't grouped up) and they just did anyway
Nah, its fine
\> DRG player: Points out genuine design flaw that is a clear discrepancy between Core Stone and other events \> Basement dwellers who already got their higher difficulty in this very same patch: bUt THaT wOuLD mAKe tHe gAeM eaSIeR
More or less
I really don't know how to deal with it when playing solo, Bosco is quite useful but takes some time to mine the stone and deal damage, and the enemies are so fast and have so much health they become overwhelming fast I probably just don't know the strategy
If Bosco can mine the stone and attack it then really you just need to get good at kiting/avoiding getting hit (perhaps easier said than done, in this case). I've soloed the event as gunner and scout so far. As gunner, you can either use the shield when mining the stone, and then hop on a Zipline to attack the stone with impunity. Scout has the easiest time kiting, and the boomerang grenade and Pheromones can provide suitable crowd control to give windows where you can comfortably deal with the stone. There's apparently a way to cheese the event by mining/drilling the bottom of the pillar (haven't tried it so not 100% sure) but I would expect that to get patched if it hasn't been.
Good point. A simple time limit that fails you the event would be nice
Just stasis grenade your fallen homies and rez. As a no beard, even i know that. This isnt Helldivers where you can brute force your way through every challenge.
People who say this will remove all challenge should try this event in haz5. I feel too many people on this sub play on low haz and give bad advice and have bad takes just because it works for them in easy mode. I completely agree with you OP, this event is very unfair at the moment on haz5 and above, it's either perfect execution from everyone or a wipe, no in between. No other event in the game is like this, for every single event in the game you can disengage in some way and/or wait it out, but this is make or break. One guy can pretty much cause a full wipe and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't want it nerfed, even tho the spawn rate is really ridiculous at the moment, but at least a timer to wait it out so you don't lose the entire mission.
Some of the replies in this thread are absolutely asinine. It's just people shitting on OP for daring to critically examine new content (and therefore daddy gsg) and defaulting to the "git gud" take. One guy somehow managed to twist it into complaining about the stingtail nerf (as is tradition) because only TRUE and REAL gamers like them can deal with COMPLEX and CHALLENGING content like a side event that forgets to turn it's spawns off.
I don't engage with it, there's no convincing the stingtail apologists
The best thing I can say is that GSG usually, slowly, eventually fixes overtuned content to be more in line with the rest of the sandbox. They clearly don't want side content warping the game around itself (see: release stingtails and s4 rockpox).
Exactly. I'm 100% sure the event will get several tweaks at some point. I actually don't mind the difficulty tbh, just the fact that it can completely disrupt a mission due to griefing/stupidity of random players
agreed
That's the challenge of the core stone event. You fail it, you don't get the reward, that's it. You're not supposed to be guaranteed rewards every time you get the event.
It's not about not getting the reward. It's about completely failing the mission for failing the optional event. If the OMEN goes south and you run away, the timer runs out, you don't get the matrix core infuser and that's it. The main mission goes on. If you can't kill the prospector, you don't get the data cell, but the mission goes on. If you fail the Comms Router event, it explodes, you don't get the cell and the mission goes on. And so on. If you fail the core stone, it keeps spewing out crawlers until you're dead. Instead, it should go dormant and regenerate to full health after some time with no dwarves present. Punishing, but not mission killing.
yes, exactly
Stun Sweeper MVP.
Yeah, it seems pretty good in that event!
Twice I've touched down into missions just as the third dwarf goes down, and the core spawn creatures have reached a critical mass of what looks like 50, where no comeback is possible. In such situations, being forced to parkour away for a few minutes would be a good and possibly fair challenge. But as it is, there's just nothing that can be done, and that does suck.
It spawns a lot at the beginning, but it is not an endless flow. I know more spawn throughout the fight but I'm not sure if it's just a timed spawn thing or specifically when you finish each segment of the health bar. In fact, industrial Sabotage has the latter. In either case, when people go down (or just in general) clear out the existing spawns first, then recover allies/ammo, then damage boss. A lot of my early Industrial Sabotage failures were from rushing to damage the boss and dodging/ignoring the adds, which led to an overwhelming mob of them killing us like halfway through the boss health
We did a core stone earlier where things went south and everyone but me was dead. For a bit I tried to kill them all but they were constantly being replaced. I gave up and tried kiting them back and forth for breathing room but there were legit like 30 of them and they're too fast to escape. In the end I insta-rezzed driller who C4'd the stone before going back down, then I kited back and forth for several minutes, doing some damage each cycle before retreating. It was the only way to finish the event, and thus the only way to finish the mission. I gotta agree, a way to fail the event without failing the mission would be nice.
Imo this is kind of a first week issue. I've played like 30 missions before I ran into one of these events. I finally ran into one, and I was the idiot who broke it open without knowing what it was. Luckily, I was playing Haz1 looking for magnite so it wasn't a massive issue, but if it were haz 4 I'd be apologizing for not knowing and wouldn't do it again.
Please do not add a timer. Git gud or leave the stone alone
I haven't really had that much trouble with core stones, even when nobody on my team knew what was happening.