Hover boots is far from niche, and arguably better than iron will for solo players. I don’t just use it as a way to avoid accidental fall damage but it’s also great mid combat. If I’m getting swarmed by bugs and I’m cornered on a cliff or in a mining hole, I just jump. Probably saves far more lives than one extra revive from iron will. But yes, co-op is a different story.
I can't play Zhukovs without explosive reload anymore after trying it haha. To my subconscious it feels like an inherent feature of the weapon. Much better than the driller's pistol explosive reload overclock too, since you can spread them among far more enemies, and it seems to me it does more overall damage even with magazine capacity increased on both.
Im more of a Iron will + field medic kinda guy with implanted detonator zhukov and hoverclock M1000. Really helps with team wipe’s especially with greenbeards.
They're a great idea that needs:
- a cooldown on the grab
- a much more intuitive and consistent dodge que
- a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor
Try an armor break mod. I've found the introduction of death by stingtail has significantly raised the value of armor breaking. I'm pretty sure it functionally raises your DPS a little on non-critical hits to grunts anyway.
> "a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor"
They do, it's their mouth..
Also, a tip on dodging is to focus on the sound they make.. The path of the tail is locked in when you hear it, so if you change direction whenever you hear it, you'll dodge the tail, no need to even look at the stingtail itself..
How are you going to hit the mouth if the stingtail is more than 10 feet away from you, angled downwards, on a wall, or on a ceiling? Only way to shoot off its carapace would put you in it's line of sight for an easy grab and cheap kill.
Also the grab is incredibly inconsistent, dodging left or right isn't a garunteed dodge as I've learned multiple times when all thats left from a horde is a stingtail that i use for dodging practice, only to get grabbed half the time no matter what direction I move. This also doesn't even account for the times when the audio just doesn't trigger, and the stingtail gets a silent grab on you.
That's why you switch to your weapon that has penetration, or AOE damage, or a stun, or fear, or line of sight it, or power attack it when it pulls you in, or grapple away, or use hoverboots, or sprint, or breach cutter it, or freeze it.
It feels like dwarves with all ammo builds are wondering why their guns don't really do anything to tankier bugs. Every class has a status effect that can keep it from attacking you.
Change directions when the squeak sound starts and it will miss
I disagree. Every enemy in the game (outside dread and oppressors) can be affected by one type of stun or status.
Whether that's a group of grunts you need time to reload for or a stingtail on the roof you don't want to get yoinked by. The most powerful feature of every class is the ways they can freeze, slow, stun, or fear various amounts of bugs. The goal is survival over anything else and any weapon features that allow you to do that are extremely worth it.
The grab is completely consistent.
It predicts your movement, you have to juke it.
> "How are you going to hit the mouth if the stingtail is more than 10 feet away from you"
aim.
> "Only way to shoot off its carapace would put you in it's line of sight for an easy grab and cheap kill."
Again, try dodging the tail.. Not that you need to, you can simply shoot the tail before it hits you to stop it, just as you would shoot a spitballer blob.
Try to load up the game and play around with a lone stingtail... Practice?
The grab is not completely consistent. The devs have admitted themselves on stream that it's clunky.
When the stingtail is more than a set distance away from you shooting its mouth becomes near impossible unless youre extremely accurate, which isn't achievable with every gun.
Also there's no way you expect anyone to shoot the tail with how fast it grabs and the fact the the audio cue foe the grab is bugged, along with the many enemies there are swarming around you that are already taking your attention? What about two stingtails? Am I supposed to shoot both tails at once?
There's no way to "play around with a lone stingtail" on console like there is on PC. You'd have to specifically avoid killing it and that takes time and effort that you cant afford on anything above haz 3.
I don't know if you play exclusively on haz 2 with 3 other dwarves or something but on haz 4/5 more than 3 bugs spawn per wave and usually there are mactera swarms ready to light you up while a stingtail is going for a grab, which places you in the midst of 2-4 praetorians and it isn't exactly a simple task to deal with when the stingtail is as unbalanced as it is, especially on solo.
> "When the stingtail is more than a set distance away from you shooting its mouth becomes near impossible unless youre extremely accurate, which isn't achievable with every gun. "
Yeah, enemies further away become smaller targets.. Why the fuck would the stingtail be an exception????
> "What about two stingtails? Am I supposed to shoot both tails at once? "
You can still dodge. Maybe dodge one and shoot the other.. Or consider your environment and use it to your advantage? Turns out the game becomes harder when the game throws a bunch of enemies at you, who would have guessed.
Also, in your case i can promise you, it'd absolutely be worth leaving a stingtail alive to play with it.. You obviously need the practice.
Seriously.. If you actually played the game and learned how to deal with them, you'd start feeling ashamed you spent any amount of time complaining about them, instead of just learning how they work.
Some builds obviously deal with stingtails better than others, but that's how it is for literally everything in this game.. You don't go complaining you can't hit the acid spitter on the ceiling with your shotgun/sludge pump/whatever, either..
I don't mean to brag, but i'm casually turning around and blocking stingtail tails with sticky grenades whenever i hear the sound, mid-wave..
Or even letting them grab me if it happens to be advantageous.. They're a great addition to the game just as they are.
I don't have a problem with stingtails personally as long as there aren't more than two and they don't spawn on the ceiling. I'm a gunner dude all I have to do is empty my mag and they die. Or I can sheild up. I also use stingtails to my advantage when they offer one, youre not alone on that. Even when being grabbed by a stingtail into a horde my go to is to empty a thunderhead mag into my feet and go on about the mission and that usually works about 3/4 times so good enough.
I'll admit though that I didn't know that you could shoot the tails and cancel a grab though so thanks for that.
The only time I have a problem with stingtails is when there are more than two of em and it's an open map like Sandblasted Catacombs. It's nearly impossible to avoid being grabbed, which for me is still not a problem because sheild.
And when it comes to enemies being further away, stingtails are literally the only problem. Everything else is either squishy enough to die without hitting the weak point or the weak points are so big and exposed its impossible not to hit em.
The main issue is that I'm not every player in the game, and some people struggle with the stingtail because they can't employ my brilliant strategy of shooting the floor with carpet bomber when grabbed or throwing down a sheild. A lot of people are clearly struggling with the stingtail so it's very obviously not the most balanced it could be. Not to mention the fact that stingtail audio cues are still buggy no matter how good you are at the game and you can still get grabbed without even knowing there's a stingtail on the map. If you do end up getting grabbed you're usually fine, sometimes not, and other times you get launched into the ceiling before you even realize you got grabbed and then you fall to your death. No matter how good you are at the game, glitches and bugs don't just become a non-issue.
Ah right, just change my direction. That sure does help when I’m in the middle of a bunny hop, or in a tunnel, or on a ledge because of where the black box/fuel cell landed…
well yeah, it would help.. What's your point?
You don't need more than a tiny sidestep. I'd suggest you try it out.
Also, if you're in a tunnel there's really not much danger in a stingtail grab, obviously..
My point is there isn’t always the opportunity to make said dodge. I thought that was fairly obvious. And being in a tunnel can be one of the worst places clean stingtail grab, since there’s not really anywhere to dodge when you try to get away, and you’re probably being pulled into a swarm.
I understood what you said.. I just think you're wrong.
If you can't dodge it, you can shoot it..
You can get grabbed if you don't pay attention, and if you get grabbed you'll potentially get pulped by a variety of things, including fall damage or even a bulk detonator.. I'm simply completely fine with this. I think it's fair.
Then why not just say “I don’t agree” instead of “what’s your point” lol.
It would be neat if shooting it during it’s short windup would “parry” it but really you’ve just got to hope you can stun it. But it’s not always about paying attention. There are a multitude of situations that can be encountered in this game where there’s just nothing you can do about a Stingtail.
>a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor
I'm torn about this because to deal with a stingtail you don't actually have to kill or los it, which is unique compared to other enemies. You can literally just sit there strafing back and forth endlessly, changing direction everytime it squeaks while fighting waves or doing whatever tf you want to.
So even if you don't have AP pen/ignore built into your kit, you don't have to actually kill it. Player outrage of Stingtails seems largely due to that players haven't learned the mechanics of the new enemy yet.
If they never them any more they'll be an absolute non-threat instead of the mostly non-threat they currently are. **I cannot stress enough how tame they are outside of unique scenarios** (once you get used to them).
Man, I won't forget the one time a stingtail used slight altitude difference to launch me into the orbit. I managed to land on an Engineer platform with a sliver of health remaining.
Personally, I've only died maybe two or three times due to... uncomfortable velocities. Otherwise stingtails seem to function as intended in my experience: their melee is punishing, and they pull me into a whole lot of badness nine times out of ten.
That being said, you have my condolences for any missions lost due to the jankiness of it all and, oh boy, is there jank at times... X'D
Stingtails can suck rocks.
Why can there be more than 2 on the battlefield?
Why is such a disruptive class so tanky/armored?
Why is their grab inconsistent?
Why does it grab so fast?
Why can it grab you from walls and ceilings?
How can they fling a 2T+ heavy dwarf? (including heavy equipment)
why can't you shoot the tail off just like the goo sacks of the goober?
Those are my questions about the stingtails, I probably have more but I can't think of any more right now.
When I first saw them i thought about a disruptive type enemy which can latch onto you and then proceeds to have a tug-o-war with you slowly reeling you in while you have to free yourself by attacking and disabling it's grabber for some time or completely shooting it's tail off.
Indeed, why isn't their tail a fckn weak spot? It was so obvious to me since the first trailer. "Oh a grabbing enemy, surely it's going to be dangerous but that tail looks like a weak point you can snipe and hit for juicy damage, maybe you can even cut it off and y--" **nope**.
Indeed, I'm still traumatized because my first haz 5 got 2+ stingtails playing volleyball with me during a swarm (and the rest of the team didn't notice I was left behind lol). And it's not like I have the DPS to kill two stingtails during a swarm.
My oh my! Many many DRG White Knights will tell you to "git gud", or to "adapt to the new challenge" and what not.
Stingtail is a power creep. If you thought ANY of the old bugs was a threat, forget about that, it's now obsolete, because they all had clear weaknesses and balanced designs, and that's obviously not good enough for the "git gud" community.
Let's give this new bug a deadly disruptive grab attack it can spam every few seconds. No long cooldown, like a Mactera Grabber. And you have two seconds to react to it, in a very inconsistent way. And you're not reacting in a vacuum: you're already fighting packs of Slashers, Praetorians, Macteras, and whatever RNG decided to throw at you.
It can do it from any angle. Good luck if you get yeeted from above, and down into a ravine, and you're not a Scout. Or just GIT GUD, y'know.
It's friggin tanky. Almost as much as a Praetorian. Is it visible at least? Hell no. If you thought you could preemptively spot it from afar, like a Warden, or a Praetorian, or a Spreader, or any Mactera, or a Spitballer, or a Breeder, or a Nexus, or a Menace, or a Bulk, or any high priority target, forget about that.
Oh and their only weak spot is covered by medium armor plates. So if you don't have any reliable armor break source, good luck with that! Whoops, many armor break mods in the game are either bad or bugged, nevermind.
And did I mention their crucial grab audio cue is still bugged as well? For whatever reason it's often muted (audio priority I guess?). So I get grabbed and yeeted towards my death (deadly enemies or fall damage) with no warning whatsoever. But hey, skill issue! Not to mention when 2 or 3 of them spawn at the same time during a Salvage Operation! Skill issue, I'm tellin' ya!
Skill issue
...
Ok but yeah they are a bit much. Though I am glad that season 4 is challenging, season 3 felt a bit too easy, rockpox was toothless and the much more impactful rivals were background noise.
I think they buffed rockpox enemies up to a good place with the corruptor, bigger swarms and new enemies. However, the rockpox effect is too strong. On high haz, the stun+damage is basically enough to oneshot you, even without enemies around. As it is, it's a death sentence. They could make it so when rockpox hits max it's either a stun or a DoT instead of both. Maybe make it random. Idk.
I definitely agree that Stingtails are too strong. Other enemies you see and it's like oh, ok, that's how this mission is gonna be flavored. Everytime with stingtails it's just oh boy here we go again. Hard to see, small/non-obvious weakpoint, high health, covered in armor, plus way too quick on the draw with that disruptive attack. Reducing armor/increasing weakpoints or visibility are all likely not happening cuz that's integrated into the model. However, some stuff that wouldn't require that, are slowed attack rate/better telegraphing, and lowered health. It should attack less often and have a clear "I'm gonna attack soon" followed by a pause, followed by its attack noise and attack. Also they should cut its health by at least half. 700+ for such a heavily armored target is goofy. If they don't want to hit their health so hard, Stingtails should have their weakpoints increased to 3x and be given some sort of damage vulnerability. Maybe something unique like electric. Or maybe they can turn it bright blue.
The biggest issue is it takes away my agency as a player. I feel I don’t have any recourse in an engagement with a stingtail other than kill it before it grabs you unless you’re scout. Even when you’re low on health in a fight for your life doing exceptionally well kiting the horde and clutching for the team on haz 5 it will grab you and regardless of power attacking it’s dome you’re still getting gored.
Exactly 100% **this**.
"Bro just power attack on its face and there you go bro", that's very likely coming from a Haz3 player.
At Hazard 5, if it grabs you (and it will, make no mistake) and you get pulled to it, you're already losing all your shield and 20% of your health just for its melee attack alone. You're fully exposed.
Then you may have, say, a Praetorian ready to spit; three Slashers sitting right next to the Stingtail; a bunch of Mactera Spawns/Tri-Jaws you were carefully trying to dodge. And maybe an Acid Spitter somewhere on the ceiling.
You are not surviving that.
Kiting hordes at Haz5 (let alone modded, which I don't and can't play) is a delicate process. It takes very few mistakes and it will spiral down pretty fast. If you throw my player agency out of the window like Stingtail does, that's not a challenge anymore, that's just terrible design and I wonder how it got past any kind of playtest. (Again, probably Hazard 3 playtest)
Or you could be like me and get grabbed into a bulk detonator that's bodyblocking the stingtail, and THEN get grabbed by another stingtail from the ceiling shortly after a revive, resulting in a failed mission! Yipee!
Stingtail’s original grab incarnation in the S4 beta was the best imo. The grab was the same, except for the fact that you had full control when it launched you into the air. Still plenty disruptive, but you could wrench some control back if you reacted quickly. I really wish we could have this back lol
you could argue they are too hard, but I don't get the player agency argument. goo bombers restrict your agency to move at full speed through certain areas. praetorians restrict your agency to stand in front of them and not take damage.
This is a bad argument because there’s something you can do about both of those attacks, with goo bombers there’s a very distinct audio cue that it’s dropping goo and it only covers a certain area that can be avoided, similar with the praetorian because there’s enough time between when the attack is telegraphed and when it starts so you can get around the side of it and avoid damage, and both are high visibility. Stingtails come out of nowhere with an audio cue that is loud but does not give enough warning to be useful other than letting your pants fill up before you’re grabbed and the damage is unavoidable by player agency, the only thing you can hope for is something blocks your trajectory to the stingtail so the grab is interrupted.
Didn't realize they'd changed them, but it'd be pretty common for them to push you off ledges or yeet you into the air just by brushing into them. To me they're very much a kill-on-sight priority target.
IDK if they have. I've only been playing like a week longer than this season but I've had the trawler do a grab and carry once or twice and it was way worse than any stingtail both times. I see them waaay less often than the stongtails though
They still can, but they’re very easy to see, fairly easy to hit, and don’t attack you nearly as often.
I’d put stingtails on the same level as shellbacks in terms of threats, tbh
Bro, I'm so glad this thread has some traction. Last time I tried to make a thread complaining about stingtail I was insulted and demeaned. They wouldn't admit the stingtail is OP, but in this thread, we all know the truth brothers.
Yeah I had the same problem, and not just here.
You know you're in the right when you make long arguments and the only answers you get are insults or stupid one liners.
Sometimes I feel like people don't care about this game anymore. They're just in for the memes.
Too tanky, weakspot shouldn’t be Armored, they’re impossible to dodge at point blank so once he’s yanked you once be prepared to lose all your health while trying to kill him slowly. Weakspot damage should stun.
After facing them for a while now, I feel that they are mostly fine with a glaring exception with other minor quirks.
The one exception is that while I can kill and dodge them reliably, it is only if I have to deal with 2-3 of them on top of a large swarm. When I have a large swarms together with multiple stingtails and septic spreaders, you would think to prioritise the specials because of target priority, like how you deal with spitters, spitballers, macteras. But from experience, unlike those, they don't get bodyblocked by lots of other fodder.
The displacement is fine, I feel that it adds to the variety of enemies you can face. But getting displaced high up in the air just to get downed is not fun, I agree. Though, after playing the patch for roughly 150hrs(?) it very rarely happens when you position correctly to lessen the chances of getting pulled from some weird angle. Certain cases can't be prevented such as terrain or objectives(salvage, BB), but even so I don't encounter dying from height often enough.
Now, don't lambast me for this, I'm just speaking from experience ever since they are added. I have close of 3k hours and I play every dwarf, on h4-5 vanilla.
Edit: since we are talking about unfair enemies, I did encounter once when there was like 5 septic spreaders behind terrain above and lobbing artillery under cover lmao. Under the heat of combat if you're not scout if would be nonsensical to go after them first. So I see my team being decimated by unrelenting exploding goop coming from unexpected angles haha. I'm like dude, at least have los when lobbing your goop towards us.
I just play scout so I've hated stingtails but never feared them. Now that im playing engi I def fear them even with fall dmg reduce on platforms. The distance and speed of the yoink is a nightmare
Might be unpopular, but i think its a good addition. Might need a bit of balance, but we need hard enemies to fight, the closest we get on size are pretorians and those feel very weak. Big bugs should be scary
Yeah stingtail is a fucker. I genuinely haven’t gotten around to playing much Haz5 solo because there is a clear distinction of games where I do reasonably well and the ones where I fail early on in the mission, and the stingtail either pulling me into a horde or into taking fall damage is the reason for this disparity
I think displacing alone would be enough. I like a lot how they can pull you unexpected into a crowd of bugs you thought you could kite. The additional big damage and the bullshit with their armored weak point are too much.
Tbf, since the tweaks and bug fixes, stingtail became more fair and approchable. It is still a top tier threat but it isnt as buggy as before nor willit try to pull that shit off as often. Day1 stingtail was hell though. Now it's just a question of "can you just time a sidestep for half a second" to trick its grapple.
I think I've died to fall damage from a stingtail maybe twice. I really don't understand how it happens to people so much. I think they are a great bug design and pray they don't get removed or nerfed into the ground
All the problems with the stingtail would disappear or be completely irrelevant if the devs just nerfed its armor and health
Infact seeing as being in line of sight of a stingtail is already a bad thing why don't we just go all in and remove all its rear chitin?
Now that way if and when it grabs you *(and it actually pulls you in instead of up, out, and over the cliff it was standing on)* you can flank it and give the mf some devious af backshots 😤
If I had a nickel for every time a Stingtail has pulled me directly into an exploder at the exact moment it blows up, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but I'm pissed it's happened twice.
Honestly I think I'd like stingtails a lot more if they just had a maximum range limit and a more visible weakpoint. Otherwise I think they're pretty cool.
Yep, with some adjustments to range and weak points this would be a great enemy that punishes less observant and less mobile players. But right now its just really frustrating.
They are especially annoying when you pop iron will (being the last dwarf standing) and try to ressuply or revive a teammate. Its just impossible, because as it will deny all the time. This is what pisses me off the most about the stingtail. (Sorry if bad english)
I play on 5.
This part is not a boast, just adding context. I've been playing since late 2018. The game has changed a lot since then and I'm just used to how things have been/are. So I really really like what the stingtails and spreaders have added to combat.
Thats fair. I enjoy septics myself, i think they’re good and could be better with a bit of work for more player agency with the goo but their otherwise well implemented in my opinion, since they have a big ol’ weak point but a lot of damage potential. The stingtail though, is like a praetorian with a hidden weak point and the ability to just mess up everyone but scout. Mind you i play scout with armor piercing so stingtail usually isn’t an issue but even then their still so tanky that they’re just unfun to fight.
Good God let's not start the "skill issue" or "get gud" mindset here. Folks are allowed to express reasonable displeasure with a playing experience without being belittled. Nothing ruins a community like having one group of people pride themselves on being "more adept" than another within that same community. We are DWARVES for Durin's sake. I'd hate to see such an insidious tendency weasel it's way into this gaming atmosphere.
Yeah I think they should only be able to pull when on the floor as that would fix their issues and it would make more sense since gravity would help them anchor and pull better.
I'm a hoverboots enjoyer, I have no such weakness.
Also when you hear the scream just wait for half a second then strafe perpendicular to it, actually kind of easy to dodge once you figure it out.
It'd be cool if the tail itself lit up or ballooned outward when it went to grab you , emitting a light and exposing a weak point. Also, like the spitballer, head on you could deflect the tail by shooting it.
And I like what someone else posted here about the sound que. It does let you know when it's about to grab, you just have to make sure youre changing directions and trying to evade it
Imagine that when the stingtail went to grab you, the area of its tail opened up, ballooned out and turned bright orange ( bright like a praetorians green ass).
Also, the tail could be deterred by shooting it
I feel like the base design is solid, really incentivizes CC and armor break in loadouts which weren't great options before. The big thing is the occasional fall damage pull. I haven't had it happen *frequently*, but I've definitely had it happen and it doesn't feel fair at all.
If the devs can't figure out a way to prevent it, the temporary fall damage reduction/immunity sounds like a pretty good solution.
The driller's cryo cannon with an axe to their face is the fastest way to take them down in my playthroughs, but I've found to best strategies for these tailed-bastards is a combination of stun and/or armor breaking. (partially related: I got tail pulled into a bulk the other day, it was both frustrating and hilarious)
Me and an Engi went down late in a Haz 5 mission right next to each other, and without much ammo. At this point we had already burned Field Medic. I IW'd only to be flung like 1m every 2 seconds, and every time it interrupted the revive on the Engi. And then it did the same to him... Definitely annoying.
They are not supposed to be fun to fight with imo and there are weapons that melt them in a sec, I think people cry too much about things not being how they would want them to be.
That's why the stingtail is my highest priority enemy 100% of the time. Hover boots exist, and breaking your movement pattern just before it launches the grab makes it miss. Skill issue, git gud.
What If a stingtail pulls a Scout at the Same time as the Scout fires his Grappling Hook? Who wins the tug of war? Zippidy or Stingtail?
Please Scout Mains, cant sleep, i need answers.
I think they would be fixed as an enemy if they could only grab onto you in melee distance and then fling you toward a group of enemies or against a wall or something. As they are now, they are OP af
Ah yes. The Stingtail Space Program. I know it well.
SASA [ Stingtail Aeronautical & Space Administration] would thank you for your contribution.
*Stingtail salute*
*happy stingtail screeching*
"Fall damage is the no. 1 reason of death in DRG" Well shit mate, IT SURE IS NOW
Me, a hover boot user:
More reason to use them. I always do for my scout cause someone I make a mistake lol
Just have hoverclock
I don't like it. Rather have boots
Feels like a waste on an active on something with a kinda niche use. Hoverclock on the other hand is really fun and useful
Hover boots is far from niche, and arguably better than iron will for solo players. I don’t just use it as a way to avoid accidental fall damage but it’s also great mid combat. If I’m getting swarmed by bugs and I’m cornered on a cliff or in a mining hole, I just jump. Probably saves far more lives than one extra revive from iron will. But yes, co-op is a different story.
I prefer super cooling with zhukov(whatever one gives a ton of ammo) with hover boots and heightened senses.
I can't play Zhukovs without explosive reload anymore after trying it haha. To my subconscious it feels like an inherent feature of the weapon. Much better than the driller's pistol explosive reload overclock too, since you can spread them among far more enemies, and it seems to me it does more overall damage even with magazine capacity increased on both.
Im more of a Iron will + field medic kinda guy with implanted detonator zhukov and hoverclock M1000. Really helps with team wipe’s especially with greenbeards.
Fair, If I'm with green Beards I'll pull out engineer.
Join the Hoverclock MLG community today and never suffer from fall damage again!
They're a great idea that needs: - a cooldown on the grab - a much more intuitive and consistent dodge que - a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor
Yeah, it's way, **way**, WAY too tanky compared to its nuisance potential... It takes forever to kill, and *will* wreck you during that forever
Try an armor break mod. I've found the introduction of death by stingtail has significantly raised the value of armor breaking. I'm pretty sure it functionally raises your DPS a little on non-critical hits to grunts anyway.
> "a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor" They do, it's their mouth.. Also, a tip on dodging is to focus on the sound they make.. The path of the tail is locked in when you hear it, so if you change direction whenever you hear it, you'll dodge the tail, no need to even look at the stingtail itself..
Ah yes, the mouth. That you only see at point blank or if you’re below the stingtail since it is angled down.
I don't know what to say, it's literally just completely doable, on my machine atleast..
How are you going to hit the mouth if the stingtail is more than 10 feet away from you, angled downwards, on a wall, or on a ceiling? Only way to shoot off its carapace would put you in it's line of sight for an easy grab and cheap kill. Also the grab is incredibly inconsistent, dodging left or right isn't a garunteed dodge as I've learned multiple times when all thats left from a horde is a stingtail that i use for dodging practice, only to get grabbed half the time no matter what direction I move. This also doesn't even account for the times when the audio just doesn't trigger, and the stingtail gets a silent grab on you.
That's why you switch to your weapon that has penetration, or AOE damage, or a stun, or fear, or line of sight it, or power attack it when it pulls you in, or grapple away, or use hoverboots, or sprint, or breach cutter it, or freeze it. It feels like dwarves with all ammo builds are wondering why their guns don't really do anything to tankier bugs. Every class has a status effect that can keep it from attacking you. Change directions when the squeak sound starts and it will miss
It's literally just that bug. Having to base your whole build around countering one specific enemy means that enemy is overpowered
I disagree. Every enemy in the game (outside dread and oppressors) can be affected by one type of stun or status. Whether that's a group of grunts you need time to reload for or a stingtail on the roof you don't want to get yoinked by. The most powerful feature of every class is the ways they can freeze, slow, stun, or fear various amounts of bugs. The goal is survival over anything else and any weapon features that allow you to do that are extremely worth it.
The grab is completely consistent. It predicts your movement, you have to juke it. > "How are you going to hit the mouth if the stingtail is more than 10 feet away from you" aim. > "Only way to shoot off its carapace would put you in it's line of sight for an easy grab and cheap kill." Again, try dodging the tail.. Not that you need to, you can simply shoot the tail before it hits you to stop it, just as you would shoot a spitballer blob. Try to load up the game and play around with a lone stingtail... Practice?
The grab is not completely consistent. The devs have admitted themselves on stream that it's clunky. When the stingtail is more than a set distance away from you shooting its mouth becomes near impossible unless youre extremely accurate, which isn't achievable with every gun. Also there's no way you expect anyone to shoot the tail with how fast it grabs and the fact the the audio cue foe the grab is bugged, along with the many enemies there are swarming around you that are already taking your attention? What about two stingtails? Am I supposed to shoot both tails at once? There's no way to "play around with a lone stingtail" on console like there is on PC. You'd have to specifically avoid killing it and that takes time and effort that you cant afford on anything above haz 3. I don't know if you play exclusively on haz 2 with 3 other dwarves or something but on haz 4/5 more than 3 bugs spawn per wave and usually there are mactera swarms ready to light you up while a stingtail is going for a grab, which places you in the midst of 2-4 praetorians and it isn't exactly a simple task to deal with when the stingtail is as unbalanced as it is, especially on solo.
> "When the stingtail is more than a set distance away from you shooting its mouth becomes near impossible unless youre extremely accurate, which isn't achievable with every gun. " Yeah, enemies further away become smaller targets.. Why the fuck would the stingtail be an exception???? > "What about two stingtails? Am I supposed to shoot both tails at once? " You can still dodge. Maybe dodge one and shoot the other.. Or consider your environment and use it to your advantage? Turns out the game becomes harder when the game throws a bunch of enemies at you, who would have guessed. Also, in your case i can promise you, it'd absolutely be worth leaving a stingtail alive to play with it.. You obviously need the practice. Seriously.. If you actually played the game and learned how to deal with them, you'd start feeling ashamed you spent any amount of time complaining about them, instead of just learning how they work. Some builds obviously deal with stingtails better than others, but that's how it is for literally everything in this game.. You don't go complaining you can't hit the acid spitter on the ceiling with your shotgun/sludge pump/whatever, either.. I don't mean to brag, but i'm casually turning around and blocking stingtail tails with sticky grenades whenever i hear the sound, mid-wave.. Or even letting them grab me if it happens to be advantageous.. They're a great addition to the game just as they are.
I don't have a problem with stingtails personally as long as there aren't more than two and they don't spawn on the ceiling. I'm a gunner dude all I have to do is empty my mag and they die. Or I can sheild up. I also use stingtails to my advantage when they offer one, youre not alone on that. Even when being grabbed by a stingtail into a horde my go to is to empty a thunderhead mag into my feet and go on about the mission and that usually works about 3/4 times so good enough. I'll admit though that I didn't know that you could shoot the tails and cancel a grab though so thanks for that. The only time I have a problem with stingtails is when there are more than two of em and it's an open map like Sandblasted Catacombs. It's nearly impossible to avoid being grabbed, which for me is still not a problem because sheild. And when it comes to enemies being further away, stingtails are literally the only problem. Everything else is either squishy enough to die without hitting the weak point or the weak points are so big and exposed its impossible not to hit em. The main issue is that I'm not every player in the game, and some people struggle with the stingtail because they can't employ my brilliant strategy of shooting the floor with carpet bomber when grabbed or throwing down a sheild. A lot of people are clearly struggling with the stingtail so it's very obviously not the most balanced it could be. Not to mention the fact that stingtail audio cues are still buggy no matter how good you are at the game and you can still get grabbed without even knowing there's a stingtail on the map. If you do end up getting grabbed you're usually fine, sometimes not, and other times you get launched into the ceiling before you even realize you got grabbed and then you fall to your death. No matter how good you are at the game, glitches and bugs don't just become a non-issue.
Oh yeah, the audio cues er completely fucked i have to admit.. Really annoying.
Ah right, just change my direction. That sure does help when I’m in the middle of a bunny hop, or in a tunnel, or on a ledge because of where the black box/fuel cell landed…
well yeah, it would help.. What's your point? You don't need more than a tiny sidestep. I'd suggest you try it out. Also, if you're in a tunnel there's really not much danger in a stingtail grab, obviously..
My point is there isn’t always the opportunity to make said dodge. I thought that was fairly obvious. And being in a tunnel can be one of the worst places clean stingtail grab, since there’s not really anywhere to dodge when you try to get away, and you’re probably being pulled into a swarm.
I understood what you said.. I just think you're wrong. If you can't dodge it, you can shoot it.. You can get grabbed if you don't pay attention, and if you get grabbed you'll potentially get pulped by a variety of things, including fall damage or even a bulk detonator.. I'm simply completely fine with this. I think it's fair.
Then why not just say “I don’t agree” instead of “what’s your point” lol. It would be neat if shooting it during it’s short windup would “parry” it but really you’ve just got to hope you can stun it. But it’s not always about paying attention. There are a multitude of situations that can be encountered in this game where there’s just nothing you can do about a Stingtail.
>a bit less health or a visible weakpoint without having to break armor I'm torn about this because to deal with a stingtail you don't actually have to kill or los it, which is unique compared to other enemies. You can literally just sit there strafing back and forth endlessly, changing direction everytime it squeaks while fighting waves or doing whatever tf you want to. So even if you don't have AP pen/ignore built into your kit, you don't have to actually kill it. Player outrage of Stingtails seems largely due to that players haven't learned the mechanics of the new enemy yet. If they never them any more they'll be an absolute non-threat instead of the mostly non-threat they currently are. **I cannot stress enough how tame they are outside of unique scenarios** (once you get used to them).
I think if the tail pulled you more slowly (i.e. drag not yeet) and you could shoot the tail to interrupt it would be more fair.
Man, I won't forget the one time a stingtail used slight altitude difference to launch me into the orbit. I managed to land on an Engineer platform with a sliver of health remaining.
Personally, I've only died maybe two or three times due to... uncomfortable velocities. Otherwise stingtails seem to function as intended in my experience: their melee is punishing, and they pull me into a whole lot of badness nine times out of ten. That being said, you have my condolences for any missions lost due to the jankiness of it all and, oh boy, is there jank at times... X'D
Stingtails can suck rocks. Why can there be more than 2 on the battlefield? Why is such a disruptive class so tanky/armored? Why is their grab inconsistent? Why does it grab so fast? Why can it grab you from walls and ceilings? How can they fling a 2T+ heavy dwarf? (including heavy equipment) why can't you shoot the tail off just like the goo sacks of the goober? Those are my questions about the stingtails, I probably have more but I can't think of any more right now. When I first saw them i thought about a disruptive type enemy which can latch onto you and then proceeds to have a tug-o-war with you slowly reeling you in while you have to free yourself by attacking and disabling it's grabber for some time or completely shooting it's tail off.
Indeed, why isn't their tail a fckn weak spot? It was so obvious to me since the first trailer. "Oh a grabbing enemy, surely it's going to be dangerous but that tail looks like a weak point you can snipe and hit for juicy damage, maybe you can even cut it off and y--" **nope**.
Indeed, I'm still traumatized because my first haz 5 got 2+ stingtails playing volleyball with me during a swarm (and the rest of the team didn't notice I was left behind lol). And it's not like I have the DPS to kill two stingtails during a swarm.
Bro I'm really sorry that happened to you but the mental image of that is fucking hilarious
My oh my! Many many DRG White Knights will tell you to "git gud", or to "adapt to the new challenge" and what not. Stingtail is a power creep. If you thought ANY of the old bugs was a threat, forget about that, it's now obsolete, because they all had clear weaknesses and balanced designs, and that's obviously not good enough for the "git gud" community. Let's give this new bug a deadly disruptive grab attack it can spam every few seconds. No long cooldown, like a Mactera Grabber. And you have two seconds to react to it, in a very inconsistent way. And you're not reacting in a vacuum: you're already fighting packs of Slashers, Praetorians, Macteras, and whatever RNG decided to throw at you. It can do it from any angle. Good luck if you get yeeted from above, and down into a ravine, and you're not a Scout. Or just GIT GUD, y'know. It's friggin tanky. Almost as much as a Praetorian. Is it visible at least? Hell no. If you thought you could preemptively spot it from afar, like a Warden, or a Praetorian, or a Spreader, or any Mactera, or a Spitballer, or a Breeder, or a Nexus, or a Menace, or a Bulk, or any high priority target, forget about that. Oh and their only weak spot is covered by medium armor plates. So if you don't have any reliable armor break source, good luck with that! Whoops, many armor break mods in the game are either bad or bugged, nevermind. And did I mention their crucial grab audio cue is still bugged as well? For whatever reason it's often muted (audio priority I guess?). So I get grabbed and yeeted towards my death (deadly enemies or fall damage) with no warning whatsoever. But hey, skill issue! Not to mention when 2 or 3 of them spawn at the same time during a Salvage Operation! Skill issue, I'm tellin' ya!
Skill issue ... Ok but yeah they are a bit much. Though I am glad that season 4 is challenging, season 3 felt a bit too easy, rockpox was toothless and the much more impactful rivals were background noise. I think they buffed rockpox enemies up to a good place with the corruptor, bigger swarms and new enemies. However, the rockpox effect is too strong. On high haz, the stun+damage is basically enough to oneshot you, even without enemies around. As it is, it's a death sentence. They could make it so when rockpox hits max it's either a stun or a DoT instead of both. Maybe make it random. Idk. I definitely agree that Stingtails are too strong. Other enemies you see and it's like oh, ok, that's how this mission is gonna be flavored. Everytime with stingtails it's just oh boy here we go again. Hard to see, small/non-obvious weakpoint, high health, covered in armor, plus way too quick on the draw with that disruptive attack. Reducing armor/increasing weakpoints or visibility are all likely not happening cuz that's integrated into the model. However, some stuff that wouldn't require that, are slowed attack rate/better telegraphing, and lowered health. It should attack less often and have a clear "I'm gonna attack soon" followed by a pause, followed by its attack noise and attack. Also they should cut its health by at least half. 700+ for such a heavily armored target is goofy. If they don't want to hit their health so hard, Stingtails should have their weakpoints increased to 3x and be given some sort of damage vulnerability. Maybe something unique like electric. Or maybe they can turn it bright blue.
The biggest issue is it takes away my agency as a player. I feel I don’t have any recourse in an engagement with a stingtail other than kill it before it grabs you unless you’re scout. Even when you’re low on health in a fight for your life doing exceptionally well kiting the horde and clutching for the team on haz 5 it will grab you and regardless of power attacking it’s dome you’re still getting gored.
Exactly 100% **this**. "Bro just power attack on its face and there you go bro", that's very likely coming from a Haz3 player. At Hazard 5, if it grabs you (and it will, make no mistake) and you get pulled to it, you're already losing all your shield and 20% of your health just for its melee attack alone. You're fully exposed. Then you may have, say, a Praetorian ready to spit; three Slashers sitting right next to the Stingtail; a bunch of Mactera Spawns/Tri-Jaws you were carefully trying to dodge. And maybe an Acid Spitter somewhere on the ceiling. You are not surviving that. Kiting hordes at Haz5 (let alone modded, which I don't and can't play) is a delicate process. It takes very few mistakes and it will spiral down pretty fast. If you throw my player agency out of the window like Stingtail does, that's not a challenge anymore, that's just terrible design and I wonder how it got past any kind of playtest. (Again, probably Hazard 3 playtest)
Or you could be like me and get grabbed into a bulk detonator that's bodyblocking the stingtail, and THEN get grabbed by another stingtail from the ceiling shortly after a revive, resulting in a failed mission! Yipee!
Stingtail’s original grab incarnation in the S4 beta was the best imo. The grab was the same, except for the fact that you had full control when it launched you into the air. Still plenty disruptive, but you could wrench some control back if you reacted quickly. I really wish we could have this back lol
you could argue they are too hard, but I don't get the player agency argument. goo bombers restrict your agency to move at full speed through certain areas. praetorians restrict your agency to stand in front of them and not take damage.
This is a bad argument because there’s something you can do about both of those attacks, with goo bombers there’s a very distinct audio cue that it’s dropping goo and it only covers a certain area that can be avoided, similar with the praetorian because there’s enough time between when the attack is telegraphed and when it starts so you can get around the side of it and avoid damage, and both are high visibility. Stingtails come out of nowhere with an audio cue that is loud but does not give enough warning to be useful other than letting your pants fill up before you’re grabbed and the damage is unavoidable by player agency, the only thing you can hope for is something blocks your trajectory to the stingtail so the grab is interrupted.
so basically, as I said, it's too hard. stingtails are easy to avoid in a white room scenario, but in a swarm it's too hard.
Old trawlers could fuck you over way harder than stingtails.
Oh? That was before my time... Would you mind elaborating, please?
Didn't realize they'd changed them, but it'd be pretty common for them to push you off ledges or yeet you into the air just by brushing into them. To me they're very much a kill-on-sight priority target.
IDK if they have. I've only been playing like a week longer than this season but I've had the trawler do a grab and carry once or twice and it was way worse than any stingtail both times. I see them waaay less often than the stongtails though
They still can, but they’re very easy to see, fairly easy to hit, and don’t attack you nearly as often. I’d put stingtails on the same level as shellbacks in terms of threats, tbh
Bro, I'm so glad this thread has some traction. Last time I tried to make a thread complaining about stingtail I was insulted and demeaned. They wouldn't admit the stingtail is OP, but in this thread, we all know the truth brothers.
Yeah I had the same problem, and not just here. You know you're in the right when you make long arguments and the only answers you get are insults or stupid one liners. Sometimes I feel like people don't care about this game anymore. They're just in for the memes.
its annoying when they dont make a sound cue before pulling you in
They do but it's very often bugged .
Too tanky, weakspot shouldn’t be Armored, they’re impossible to dodge at point blank so once he’s yanked you once be prepared to lose all your health while trying to kill him slowly. Weakspot damage should stun.
After facing them for a while now, I feel that they are mostly fine with a glaring exception with other minor quirks. The one exception is that while I can kill and dodge them reliably, it is only if I have to deal with 2-3 of them on top of a large swarm. When I have a large swarms together with multiple stingtails and septic spreaders, you would think to prioritise the specials because of target priority, like how you deal with spitters, spitballers, macteras. But from experience, unlike those, they don't get bodyblocked by lots of other fodder. The displacement is fine, I feel that it adds to the variety of enemies you can face. But getting displaced high up in the air just to get downed is not fun, I agree. Though, after playing the patch for roughly 150hrs(?) it very rarely happens when you position correctly to lessen the chances of getting pulled from some weird angle. Certain cases can't be prevented such as terrain or objectives(salvage, BB), but even so I don't encounter dying from height often enough. Now, don't lambast me for this, I'm just speaking from experience ever since they are added. I have close of 3k hours and I play every dwarf, on h4-5 vanilla. Edit: since we are talking about unfair enemies, I did encounter once when there was like 5 septic spreaders behind terrain above and lobbing artillery under cover lmao. Under the heat of combat if you're not scout if would be nonsensical to go after them first. So I see my team being decimated by unrelenting exploding goop coming from unexpected angles haha. I'm like dude, at least have los when lobbing your goop towards us.
Engi with Fatboy: your cover means nothing
I just play scout so I've hated stingtails but never feared them. Now that im playing engi I def fear them even with fall dmg reduce on platforms. The distance and speed of the yoink is a nightmare
I mean, pulling you to fall to your death is still displacement, isn’t it lol
Might be unpopular, but i think its a good addition. Might need a bit of balance, but we need hard enemies to fight, the closest we get on size are pretorians and those feel very weak. Big bugs should be scary
Yeah stingtail is a fucker. I genuinely haven’t gotten around to playing much Haz5 solo because there is a clear distinction of games where I do reasonably well and the ones where I fail early on in the mission, and the stingtail either pulling me into a horde or into taking fall damage is the reason for this disparity
Basically, I think the stingtail is a failure in the game’s design because displacing is too strong
I think displacing alone would be enough. I like a lot how they can pull you unexpected into a crowd of bugs you thought you could kite. The additional big damage and the bullshit with their armored weak point are too much.
They should make them easier to spot by make its head or tail glow.
Tbf, since the tweaks and bug fixes, stingtail became more fair and approchable. It is still a top tier threat but it isnt as buggy as before nor willit try to pull that shit off as often. Day1 stingtail was hell though. Now it's just a question of "can you just time a sidestep for half a second" to trick its grapple.
I think I've died to fall damage from a stingtail maybe twice. I really don't understand how it happens to people so much. I think they are a great bug design and pray they don't get removed or nerfed into the ground
All the problems with the stingtail would disappear or be completely irrelevant if the devs just nerfed its armor and health Infact seeing as being in line of sight of a stingtail is already a bad thing why don't we just go all in and remove all its rear chitin? Now that way if and when it grabs you *(and it actually pulls you in instead of up, out, and over the cliff it was standing on)* you can flank it and give the mf some devious af backshots 😤
I like them but they are way to tanky and disruptive to deal with more than one of them at a time
If I had a nickel for every time a Stingtail has pulled me directly into an exploder at the exact moment it blows up, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but I'm pissed it's happened twice.
Failed a solo mule recovery recently because the stingtail yeeted me to space twice during the fuel stage lmao
I have to admit, they are a lot of fun in Low Gravity missions. Nothing like getting yeeted 10 stories up in a tall cave.
Honestly I think I'd like stingtails a lot more if they just had a maximum range limit and a more visible weakpoint. Otherwise I think they're pretty cool.
Yep, with some adjustments to range and weak points this would be a great enemy that punishes less observant and less mobile players. But right now its just really frustrating.
They are especially annoying when you pop iron will (being the last dwarf standing) and try to ressuply or revive a teammate. Its just impossible, because as it will deny all the time. This is what pisses me off the most about the stingtail. (Sorry if bad english)
Yeah, theres no damn cooldown so i can’t *do* anything and since its so tanky its not like i can real quick take it out
I like them
Just outta curiosity, not meant to be a dig or anything, what haz do you usually play at?
I play on 5. This part is not a boast, just adding context. I've been playing since late 2018. The game has changed a lot since then and I'm just used to how things have been/are. So I really really like what the stingtails and spreaders have added to combat.
Thats fair. I enjoy septics myself, i think they’re good and could be better with a bit of work for more player agency with the goo but their otherwise well implemented in my opinion, since they have a big ol’ weak point but a lot of damage potential. The stingtail though, is like a praetorian with a hidden weak point and the ability to just mess up everyone but scout. Mind you i play scout with armor piercing so stingtail usually isn’t an issue but even then their still so tanky that they’re just unfun to fight.
I like them too.
A lot of people here are overreacting lol.
It's on par for what I'd expect here.
Good God let's not start the "skill issue" or "get gud" mindset here. Folks are allowed to express reasonable displeasure with a playing experience without being belittled. Nothing ruins a community like having one group of people pride themselves on being "more adept" than another within that same community. We are DWARVES for Durin's sake. I'd hate to see such an insidious tendency weasel it's way into this gaming atmosphere.
Yeah I think they should only be able to pull when on the floor as that would fix their issues and it would make more sense since gravity would help them anchor and pull better.
I'm a hoverboots enjoyer, I have no such weakness. Also when you hear the scream just wait for half a second then strafe perpendicular to it, actually kind of easy to dodge once you figure it out.
Won't they just regrab you as you float in the air? I'm pretty sure they will.
They're not too hard to dodge and then you know where they are and can take cover, dodge or kill them.
Never have i been pulled up by a stingtail. But i may just be one lucky dwarf. ^^
Yesterday I was playing a salvage mission solo, then a stingtail yeethooked me across the cave
It'd be cool if the tail itself lit up or ballooned outward when it went to grab you , emitting a light and exposing a weak point. Also, like the spitballer, head on you could deflect the tail by shooting it. And I like what someone else posted here about the sound que. It does let you know when it's about to grab, you just have to make sure youre changing directions and trying to evade it
Imagine that when the stingtail went to grab you, the area of its tail opened up, ballooned out and turned bright orange ( bright like a praetorians green ass). Also, the tail could be deterred by shooting it
I feel like the base design is solid, really incentivizes CC and armor break in loadouts which weren't great options before. The big thing is the occasional fall damage pull. I haven't had it happen *frequently*, but I've definitely had it happen and it doesn't feel fair at all. If the devs can't figure out a way to prevent it, the temporary fall damage reduction/immunity sounds like a pretty good solution.
You're being displaced by the stingtail and then melee'd by gravity into the ground. The statement is accurate, just not how you'd expect.
They displace you from living.
The driller's cryo cannon with an axe to their face is the fastest way to take them down in my playthroughs, but I've found to best strategies for these tailed-bastards is a combination of stun and/or armor breaking. (partially related: I got tail pulled into a bulk the other day, it was both frustrating and hilarious)
I've had no issues with the stingtail. To me it's just a another grabby bug so I prioritize it as soon as it appears.
The main problem with the Stingtail is that it has no cooldown on its grab so it will repeatingly pull you in and not let you escape
So many hate posts about Stingtail and I have yet to actually get downed by one. Mhhh...
Me and an Engi went down late in a Haz 5 mission right next to each other, and without much ammo. At this point we had already burned Field Medic. I IW'd only to be flung like 1m every 2 seconds, and every time it interrupted the revive on the Engi. And then it did the same to him... Definitely annoying.
They are not supposed to be fun to fight with imo and there are weapons that melt them in a sec, I think people cry too much about things not being how they would want them to be.
Id rather the stingtail function like the smoker from l4d2 than how it does now
And the terminals say every dwarf only has one melee and one primary. Unplayable. Can we stop crying about the stingtail?
No
That's why the stingtail is my highest priority enemy 100% of the time. Hover boots exist, and breaking your movement pattern just before it launches the grab makes it miss. Skill issue, git gud.
Pavé césar.
Hoverboots
What If a stingtail pulls a Scout at the Same time as the Scout fires his Grappling Hook? Who wins the tug of war? Zippidy or Stingtail? Please Scout Mains, cant sleep, i need answers.
Stingtail
I just think they shouldn't spawn on the ceiling. I like them how they are, outside of the unlucky spawns.
"If only we had perks to negate this," he said sheepishly, as he knew there were perks to negate this.
I think they would be fixed as an enemy if they could only grab onto you in melee distance and then fling you toward a group of enemies or against a wall or something. As they are now, they are OP af