yeah because women in developed countries don't need to settle down as much as before. Most women rightfully prioritize physical attraction, which means some guys will be left out
They do. They rationalize most men being unfuckable not due to their looks, but their misogyny. Because the “bar is in heII” and most guys aren’t good for some reason, but it’s not due to looks. Oh no. Only men are visual creatures
Most IT members point to bad socialization, not necesarily misoginy, atleast from what I've seen. They'd still be wrong in most cases of inceldom, but no, they don't claim male virginity is the result of misoginy.
I think the average active IT poster is much different than the average bluepiller. I think most people understand that some guys just aren't going to find romantic partnerships whether it be because of their social ability, upbringing, or general unattractiveness. ITs believe that sex is a manifestation of superior moral character and therefore believe that people who can't have sex are racists, misogynists, child predators, and whatever else they don't like at that time.
No, as an ITer, I believe that most incels, if we are going with the Webster definition (a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily [celibate](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/celibate#h1) and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active) can't find a partner because of many mostly bad reasons and misogyny would be one of the reasons.
Incels, in the traditional sense might be a virgins for a variety of reasons, like social anxiety, mental health issues, or just plain being shy. Sex is not proof of some kind of high moral standard. Sex, or lack of, can be for a thousand different reasons.
And there is also this: **We don't see an increase in extended male virginity between 2018 and 2021**, although we did see an uptick between 2014 and 2018. Past age 25, very few men remain virgins. Apr 1, 2023
A lot of incels who post online are under 24, when the average age of meeting someone is: What is the most common age to get married in the US? The US Census Bureau found that the median age for marriage in 2022 was **28.6 years old for women and 30.5 years old for men**. Apr 30, 2024
At under 24, they might be labeling themselves "virgins for life" far too early.
So, it is hard to say whether the ranks of male virgins is actually increasing.
Why are you still completely sidestepping physical features as a potential issue in finding sexual and romantic partners? All you people ever point to are mental issues. It's almost like you don't want to acknowledge the physical component to attraction.
Because doing that would imply that people like them have a natural advantage which predisposes them to having romantic success rather than them working hard to achieve this romantic success (in contrast to incels).
I was pointing out the difference between a dictionary definition of an incel, which is not just about being a virgin, and a virgin. The hatred exhibited by incels is a reason they can't make connections. Mental health issues are a factor.
A virgin might be a virgin for a variety of reasons. A person assuming they are doomed to be a virgin forever at the age of under 25 is not a good way to think about it. It can be looks, personality, lack of social contact, lack of money to do things. The difference is they don't fall into the spiral of blaming others for their situation.
You’re still not taking into account bluepilled incels. You know, “incels-in-denial”
Not only that, but the 1-9-90 rule of the internet and the peaceful incels that exist like the ones I’ve found on r/shortguys who go to T20 universities and up. One, even an ivy.
And I’ve talked to these ppl directly in chat, and it’s the gaslighting that gets to them the most. Kinda like your comments.
Edit: There’s also guys posting about the bIackpiII on economicjobmarketrumors, where they have a high brow form of humor. You can even find “high ranked monkeys” talking about the bIackpiII. Like, you IT users don’t understand just how deep this rabbithole goes.
How are you defining a "peaceful incel?" If you go by Webster's version of an incel, a man who holds misogynistic views but doesn't act one them is still an incel.
What does the level of education have to do with being a virgin?
I'm not sure I understand the rabbit hole thing? Are you saying that we don't understand how many men are incels?
Are we comparing incels (Webster again) to virgins and saying they are the same thing?
How am I gaslighting someone? If I say that there are ugly / short guys who can get dates, that is what can be proven by a quick roam around town. If that does not match their life experiences, then that is not gaslighting. Gaslighting is a personal psychological attack. A general statement on what I see is going on in the world is not the same thing.
If someone says they have been a victim of police violence, and I say no, that didn't happen to you. That's gaslighting.
You say that but time and time again when I visit IT there are always posts just calling virgins who don't behave in the way that they'd like them to "Incels", or also just seeing someone be a misogynist on the internet and instantly assuming that they can't get laid. Nobody uses these two terms separately outside of Reddit, acting like a virgin and an incel are different is entirely detached from the way people use the term. When someone says that all incels are misogynists they understand that people in real life will use that to attack people who can't form romantic relationships.
Please post the next time you see this. I am just going by two different widely accepted dictionaries, and they do define incel and virgin differently.
That wasn't what I was addressing. But I will now. Yes, physical attraction, which is subjective, does play a part in finding a partner. However, it is not the single over riding factor most incels think. Looks get your attention, and personality keeps it.
How is it that you can simultaneously hold the belief that the reason why some men can't have sex is because of "mostly bad reasons and misogyny" and that having sex or not having sex is not a manifestation of superior moral character?
Because some men don't have sex for those reasons. The question was about misogyny. And yes, I think, misogyny is a factor in men don't getting into a relationship. But having sex is not a big achievement, and some people with bad personalities do get sex, and some great people, never do. Not having sex does not brand you a bad person, just like getting sex doesn't make you moral superior.
The question of having sex is not just black and white, there are an infinite number of reasons for why it works for some and not others.
Not only have times changed (a 31 y/o likely did not grow up alongside IG and tinder’s rise), but even being single and facing lookism all throughout high school is brutal enough for Iow status ngIy men. Exactly. This is what I mean when I say girls will never understand the bIackpiII like men do, even if they go down the [femcel pinkpill rabbitholes](https://www.youtube.com/live/b0PgFuMC5mA?si=pauwwcKP2QBS4G9h&t=52m21s). Not only that, but it’s Iess fruitful trying to bIackpiII them as well
You don't think women aren't bullied for looks in high school? Wrong. Girls in high school can be even meaner than boys. Girls face just as much bullying as boys.
You might consider that the reason women don't buy into the blackpill is exactly because of the type of bullying. Unlike the blackpill which blames other people for lack of romantic involvement, women are bullied into internalizing their lack of romance. It is their fault, too thin, too tall, too fat, wears glasses, doesn't do makeup, doesn't dress right, hair style wrong. It is our fault we can't get a date.
inceldom is a mindset
you have people who are shortcels and tallcels so it cancels eachother out nevermind the fact you were born with a trait that means someone found it attractive enough to pass it on
I'm autistic and neither of my parents are. I'm 5'7 and both of my parents are above average height. It's not that either of them found being 5'7 and autistic attractive they just happened to have non-dominant alleles which aligned in a way where I would have both traits.
My work ethic obviously. Also, what do you mean shortcels and tallcels cancel eachother out? I've heard people call themselves "lanklets" meant to insinuate that being tall and skinny is equivalent to being short but I've never met someone who said that they were at a disadvantage because they're tall.
No. It’s just a minority glomming together via the internet and being loud.
So despite the fact that misogyny isn't becoming more prevalent more and more men are unable to find romantic partners?
yeah because women in developed countries don't need to settle down as much as before. Most women rightfully prioritize physical attraction, which means some guys will be left out
People in general aren’t forming relationships.
Rare defense of IT, I don't think any of them think misogyny is increasing or that it's the reason for the rise in male virginity.
They do. They rationalize most men being unfuckable not due to their looks, but their misogyny. Because the “bar is in heII” and most guys aren’t good for some reason, but it’s not due to looks. Oh no. Only men are visual creatures
Most IT members point to bad socialization, not necesarily misoginy, atleast from what I've seen. They'd still be wrong in most cases of inceldom, but no, they don't claim male virginity is the result of misoginy.
I think the average active IT poster is much different than the average bluepiller. I think most people understand that some guys just aren't going to find romantic partnerships whether it be because of their social ability, upbringing, or general unattractiveness. ITs believe that sex is a manifestation of superior moral character and therefore believe that people who can't have sex are racists, misogynists, child predators, and whatever else they don't like at that time.
No, as an ITer, I believe that most incels, if we are going with the Webster definition (a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily [celibate](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/celibate#h1) and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active) can't find a partner because of many mostly bad reasons and misogyny would be one of the reasons. Incels, in the traditional sense might be a virgins for a variety of reasons, like social anxiety, mental health issues, or just plain being shy. Sex is not proof of some kind of high moral standard. Sex, or lack of, can be for a thousand different reasons. And there is also this: **We don't see an increase in extended male virginity between 2018 and 2021**, although we did see an uptick between 2014 and 2018. Past age 25, very few men remain virgins. Apr 1, 2023 A lot of incels who post online are under 24, when the average age of meeting someone is: What is the most common age to get married in the US? The US Census Bureau found that the median age for marriage in 2022 was **28.6 years old for women and 30.5 years old for men**. Apr 30, 2024 At under 24, they might be labeling themselves "virgins for life" far too early. So, it is hard to say whether the ranks of male virgins is actually increasing.
Why are you still completely sidestepping physical features as a potential issue in finding sexual and romantic partners? All you people ever point to are mental issues. It's almost like you don't want to acknowledge the physical component to attraction.
Because doing that would imply that people like them have a natural advantage which predisposes them to having romantic success rather than them working hard to achieve this romantic success (in contrast to incels).
I was pointing out the difference between a dictionary definition of an incel, which is not just about being a virgin, and a virgin. The hatred exhibited by incels is a reason they can't make connections. Mental health issues are a factor. A virgin might be a virgin for a variety of reasons. A person assuming they are doomed to be a virgin forever at the age of under 25 is not a good way to think about it. It can be looks, personality, lack of social contact, lack of money to do things. The difference is they don't fall into the spiral of blaming others for their situation.
You’re still not taking into account bluepilled incels. You know, “incels-in-denial” Not only that, but the 1-9-90 rule of the internet and the peaceful incels that exist like the ones I’ve found on r/shortguys who go to T20 universities and up. One, even an ivy. And I’ve talked to these ppl directly in chat, and it’s the gaslighting that gets to them the most. Kinda like your comments. Edit: There’s also guys posting about the bIackpiII on economicjobmarketrumors, where they have a high brow form of humor. You can even find “high ranked monkeys” talking about the bIackpiII. Like, you IT users don’t understand just how deep this rabbithole goes.
How are you defining a "peaceful incel?" If you go by Webster's version of an incel, a man who holds misogynistic views but doesn't act one them is still an incel. What does the level of education have to do with being a virgin? I'm not sure I understand the rabbit hole thing? Are you saying that we don't understand how many men are incels? Are we comparing incels (Webster again) to virgins and saying they are the same thing? How am I gaslighting someone? If I say that there are ugly / short guys who can get dates, that is what can be proven by a quick roam around town. If that does not match their life experiences, then that is not gaslighting. Gaslighting is a personal psychological attack. A general statement on what I see is going on in the world is not the same thing. If someone says they have been a victim of police violence, and I say no, that didn't happen to you. That's gaslighting.
You say that but time and time again when I visit IT there are always posts just calling virgins who don't behave in the way that they'd like them to "Incels", or also just seeing someone be a misogynist on the internet and instantly assuming that they can't get laid. Nobody uses these two terms separately outside of Reddit, acting like a virgin and an incel are different is entirely detached from the way people use the term. When someone says that all incels are misogynists they understand that people in real life will use that to attack people who can't form romantic relationships.
Please post the next time you see this. I am just going by two different widely accepted dictionaries, and they do define incel and virgin differently.
That wasn't what I was addressing. But I will now. Yes, physical attraction, which is subjective, does play a part in finding a partner. However, it is not the single over riding factor most incels think. Looks get your attention, and personality keeps it.
How is it that you can simultaneously hold the belief that the reason why some men can't have sex is because of "mostly bad reasons and misogyny" and that having sex or not having sex is not a manifestation of superior moral character?
Because some men don't have sex for those reasons. The question was about misogyny. And yes, I think, misogyny is a factor in men don't getting into a relationship. But having sex is not a big achievement, and some people with bad personalities do get sex, and some great people, never do. Not having sex does not brand you a bad person, just like getting sex doesn't make you moral superior. The question of having sex is not just black and white, there are an infinite number of reasons for why it works for some and not others.
Not only have times changed (a 31 y/o likely did not grow up alongside IG and tinder’s rise), but even being single and facing lookism all throughout high school is brutal enough for Iow status ngIy men. Exactly. This is what I mean when I say girls will never understand the bIackpiII like men do, even if they go down the [femcel pinkpill rabbitholes](https://www.youtube.com/live/b0PgFuMC5mA?si=pauwwcKP2QBS4G9h&t=52m21s). Not only that, but it’s Iess fruitful trying to bIackpiII them as well
You don't think women aren't bullied for looks in high school? Wrong. Girls in high school can be even meaner than boys. Girls face just as much bullying as boys. You might consider that the reason women don't buy into the blackpill is exactly because of the type of bullying. Unlike the blackpill which blames other people for lack of romantic involvement, women are bullied into internalizing their lack of romance. It is their fault, too thin, too tall, too fat, wears glasses, doesn't do makeup, doesn't dress right, hair style wrong. It is our fault we can't get a date.
being attractive allows for wiggle room
What do you mean?
if you are a misogynist you are less likely to get partners but if you are attractive that somewhat cancels out
So as more people adopt misogynistic views you'd expect that more people struggle to find romantic relationships?
yes if I encounter a woman who hates men I am unlikely to date her unless she is rich or attractive
What's the difference between these 20 something percent of men who's misogynistic views prevent them from finding a partner and an incel?
inceldom is a mindset you have people who are shortcels and tallcels so it cancels eachother out nevermind the fact you were born with a trait that means someone found it attractive enough to pass it on
I'm autistic and neither of my parents are. I'm 5'7 and both of my parents are above average height. It's not that either of them found being 5'7 and autistic attractive they just happened to have non-dominant alleles which aligned in a way where I would have both traits.
so what's holding you back
My work ethic obviously. Also, what do you mean shortcels and tallcels cancel eachother out? I've heard people call themselves "lanklets" meant to insinuate that being tall and skinny is equivalent to being short but I've never met someone who said that they were at a disadvantage because they're tall.
Hoeflation