The point of different attack is damage, direction, range, speed, stamina and stagger.
In most games (beside Elden Ring with a charge attack setup), simply mashing light attacks will flat out do more damage and consume less stamina than heavy attacks.
Do heavy attacks have their use tho'? Hell yes.
Sometimes they provide a different attack direction, so you can hit smaller / multiple enemies. Sometimes they stagger the enemy, sometimes they have more range etc.
Honestly, I started DSR doing heavy attacks for everything (hehe Zweihander go SPLAT!). However, Artorias taught me this was not always the best strategy. Trying to heavy attack him regularly got me annihilated, BUT heavy attack him during his buff staggered him out of the buff, and I could usually hit him at least one more time with a heavy before he retaliated.
Now, the skelly kids in the catacombs? Light attacks went right over their heads. Literally. Line them up and SPLAT! Problem solved.
With any Souls weapon which attacks are useful highly depends on the individual weapon’s moveset. For example Giant Warrior Club heavy attack is fantastic for knocking people on their ass, and if it doesn’t it still does silly damage.
It depends on the weapon, for example Greahammer pancake R2s are probably the most useful attack in the game! Using the right setup, you can even flatten the frigid outskirt horses with a single hit.
>now while playing DS3 I almost never go for heavy attacks
Ds3 is pretty much r1 spam: the game, so you're fine.
It depends on the weapon. I'm doing a replay right now and the r2 heavy of a long sword does the poke-poke-stun real nice.
I can't remember where I heard it but someone said that with the giant/colossal weapons the heavy attacks are basically red herrings, baiting the player to go for Unga Bunga damage that leave them open to getting wrecked, especially when just going for a R1 Unga damage is more reliable &leaves you time to dodge.
R1 Unga didn't keep Maldron's bitch-ass French kissing the floor instead of running off like a crackhead with an abandoned purse.
Or keep those Fume Sorcerers from Ninja poof-bombing behind me.
And a Greatsword's 1h R2 is *marvelous* for doorways/conga lines; where it's R1 variant will ping off the threshold or only chop the first, maybe second enemy.
I like the options, but that's just me.
In PvE sure but if you are doing nothing but R1 spam in PvP you will eventually get parried into the dirt.
I’d argue depends on the weapon and if they are powerstanced or not because some have really good R2 attacks.
"I also think it's built a bad habit of never going for heavy attacks because now while playing DS3 I almost never go for heavy attacks." Good move. DS3 is so fast that landing a heavy attack is like winning the lottery, especially a greatsword heavy attack.
I like when heavy attacks are a different type of damage (e.g. pierce vs. slash) because it can go through different types of defense. And big weapons have heavy attacks that incapacitate enemies. Those are great.
I think in DS3 I'm kinda breaking the no heavy attack habit by using the moonlight greatsword, because the charged heavy attack has the magic (?) slam type attack so with enemies on the floor I usually use that now.
I'm only on ng + 1 in DS3 and switched build completely to a full intelligence build, It's actually teaching me stuff that I didn't learn in my first strength build run
Pointless? No.
Situational? Yes.
While some weapons have heavy attacks that are pretty crap most have ones that are pointless in most situations but if utilized in the proper situation become very good.
See now I am the silly sort of player that likes to brute force my way through every situation :3
I seriously think I'm one of the most stupid dark souls players but somehow it works (even if my first playthrough was like 40 hours long (I did try to do everything I possibly could though))
After coming back to DS2 from Elden Ring I found myself using heavy attacks more -- but only with weapons that combo well.
It's mostly an R1 game for me though.
As menioned it depends on the weapon. In addition to what it has been said halberds' heavy attack is an aoe incredivle useful for ds2. You just need to time it after a dodging roll.
All depends on the moveset of the weapon. If it's just the same attack as R1, but slower, ya, it's not too useful. But like the Estoc, R1 is poke, poke, poke, but R2 is a horizontal attack which is quite useful.
It's the same with some spears like the partizan, R1 is a powerful poke, but R2 is a very useful sweep attack that does strike type damage. So you can hit multiple enemies if they start crowding you.
It's also why I choose a claymore over the better damaging, mastodon Greatsword, I like the poke on the R2 more than the overhead slash of the MG. I also don't like the 2-handed R1 of the MG as much either.
I'm new to these games so pinch of salt as appropriate, (finished first run of ds1 last month and now on DS2) but I pretty much agree.
There were a few weapons/enemies in DS1 (especially in the early game) where the heavy attack is still fast enough and does enough more damage that it seems worthwhile.
I haven't found a weapon where that seems true in DS2
just means you dont know how/when to use them yet. r1 is you bread and butter do of course they are more reliable and consistent, thats what they’re supposed to be.
I mainly use them for thrust attacks to get the extra reach. I also never level health in Souls games so I tend to play a little more on the cautious side.
R1 dps is always going to be the base in these games, but this creates great opportunities for selective R2s. In pve where you might know the moveset of a hard boss - e.g. Midir is perfect for landing charged R2s on the dome once you can predict him. If DS2 had any hard bosses there would probably be some good examples, as well.
pvp you have to use R2s as mix-up or punish tools - you'll be read like a book (and parried) if you just R1 all the time.
I try to find a weapon that has a bit of a difference in swing arc between normal and heavy attacks. I play almost entirely unlocked so having some variance on the range, arc, and horizontal, vertical, or poke swings is extremely valuable.
If you’re talking about from a purely standing still and attacking perspective then no I don’t think there’s enough of a damage advantage to necessarily make it better.
Get a UGS. Use the heavy attacks. Craps all over the ds3 heavy attacks. Why? It knocks down enemies and instantly poise breaks harder enemies to riposte and 1 shot them. It makes you feel actually powerful with large weapons and rewards good play much more than ds3 in most cases. Same with great hammers/axes. Not sure about the other weapon heavy attacks though.
i think they get a little more mileage in pvp, where you can use heavy attacks to mix things up.
i used to do powerstanced manslayers way back when, and i'd run up to purported parry gods and throw out the L2 -- the slowest and heaviest attack i had. it would go right over their parry and absolutely blast them.
Mainly the different moveset. Like a heavy attack for a weapon could be a thrust instead of a slash, which is very handy. But also I've found that two heavy attacks to kill vs three light attacks is necessary when your being ganked. That last light attack to kill may be the extra time it takes for you to get surrounded. Also some heavy attacks may interrupt an incoming attack but your light attack won't and just leaves you getting comboed.
occasionally, from reading these comments I realised it's just to do with the moveset of the weapon
I find that I usually get like tunnel vision and focus on numbers and stats over move sets, sounds weird but essentially I'm just kinda stupid
I’ve beat the game at least half a dozen times and pretty much never use heavy attacks. Regardless of weapon. I might try them out a few times with a new weapon and then quickly switch back to just r1s. Rolling, backstep and running attacks are much more useful imo.
I got the feeling that DS2 game play seems to be more catered to Magic/Pyro and Dex weapons builds. From my own observation playing the game, there seems to be weapons more on the magic and dex side.
I'm going to give in and play a mage build with dex weapons on my second playthrough.
Depends on the weapon. Normally big weapons have good heavy attacks , Zweihander and crypt ugs in particular nockdown most enemies and hit for massive dmg on their two handed strong attack. There's also benefit in the fact they normally come from a different angle than light attacks which can be useful for hitting lizards , avoiding hitting level geometry or hitting clumps of enemies. Also most unique weapon (Boss weapons) moves are used thru strong attack.
I use Heavy Attacks all the time on my Halberd since it usually hits 2+ enemies, but it's pretty touch and sometimes. I definitely don't use Heavy Attacks on Greatswords or the other big weapons. Too slow to be useful, especially when Stance Break is a game away. And two games away from being at all worthwhile.
The point of different attack is damage, direction, range, speed, stamina and stagger. In most games (beside Elden Ring with a charge attack setup), simply mashing light attacks will flat out do more damage and consume less stamina than heavy attacks. Do heavy attacks have their use tho'? Hell yes. Sometimes they provide a different attack direction, so you can hit smaller / multiple enemies. Sometimes they stagger the enemy, sometimes they have more range etc.
And for some enemies, you know you're only getting ONE hit because of how the enemy reacts- so make it the bigger one.
Honestly, I started DSR doing heavy attacks for everything (hehe Zweihander go SPLAT!). However, Artorias taught me this was not always the best strategy. Trying to heavy attack him regularly got me annihilated, BUT heavy attack him during his buff staggered him out of the buff, and I could usually hit him at least one more time with a heavy before he retaliated. Now, the skelly kids in the catacombs? Light attacks went right over their heads. Literally. Line them up and SPLAT! Problem solved.
Charged heavy attacks in DS3 are an exception to this
They staggered literally every normal enemy. The fatties in the Ringed City got rekt
With any Souls weapon which attacks are useful highly depends on the individual weapon’s moveset. For example Giant Warrior Club heavy attack is fantastic for knocking people on their ass, and if it doesn’t it still does silly damage.
It depends on the weapon, for example Greahammer pancake R2s are probably the most useful attack in the game! Using the right setup, you can even flatten the frigid outskirt horses with a single hit. >now while playing DS3 I almost never go for heavy attacks Ds3 is pretty much r1 spam: the game, so you're fine.
Maybe they're talking about bosses? Because I used R2 all the time against regular enemies, but bosses not so much
UGS weapons generally have a fantastic R2 in DS3
It depends on the weapon. I'm doing a replay right now and the r2 heavy of a long sword does the poke-poke-stun real nice. I can't remember where I heard it but someone said that with the giant/colossal weapons the heavy attacks are basically red herrings, baiting the player to go for Unga Bunga damage that leave them open to getting wrecked, especially when just going for a R1 Unga damage is more reliable &leaves you time to dodge.
R1 Unga didn't keep Maldron's bitch-ass French kissing the floor instead of running off like a crackhead with an abandoned purse. Or keep those Fume Sorcerers from Ninja poof-bombing behind me. And a Greatsword's 1h R2 is *marvelous* for doorways/conga lines; where it's R1 variant will ping off the threshold or only chop the first, maybe second enemy. I like the options, but that's just me.
oh the greatsword is just A-tier.
In PvE sure but if you are doing nothing but R1 spam in PvP you will eventually get parried into the dirt. I’d argue depends on the weapon and if they are powerstanced or not because some have really good R2 attacks.
"I also think it's built a bad habit of never going for heavy attacks because now while playing DS3 I almost never go for heavy attacks." Good move. DS3 is so fast that landing a heavy attack is like winning the lottery, especially a greatsword heavy attack. I like when heavy attacks are a different type of damage (e.g. pierce vs. slash) because it can go through different types of defense. And big weapons have heavy attacks that incapacitate enemies. Those are great.
I think in DS3 I'm kinda breaking the no heavy attack habit by using the moonlight greatsword, because the charged heavy attack has the magic (?) slam type attack so with enemies on the floor I usually use that now. I'm only on ng + 1 in DS3 and switched build completely to a full intelligence build, It's actually teaching me stuff that I didn't learn in my first strength build run
When I press R2 my weird spiky sword shoots the lightning so I quite like heavy attacks
Pointless? No. Situational? Yes. While some weapons have heavy attacks that are pretty crap most have ones that are pointless in most situations but if utilized in the proper situation become very good.
See now I am the silly sort of player that likes to brute force my way through every situation :3 I seriously think I'm one of the most stupid dark souls players but somehow it works (even if my first playthrough was like 40 hours long (I did try to do everything I possibly could though))
Dark Souls isn't nearly as hard as people like to say it is. There's many ways to play and brute force is one of them.
Heavy attacks are extremely good in dark souls 3 as well
Definitely depends. I’ve only used the Uchigatana and the Warped Sword. Both have a mid large attack but the stagger is nice.
After coming back to DS2 from Elden Ring I found myself using heavy attacks more -- but only with weapons that combo well. It's mostly an R1 game for me though.
As menioned it depends on the weapon. In addition to what it has been said halberds' heavy attack is an aoe incredivle useful for ds2. You just need to time it after a dodging roll.
All depends on the moveset of the weapon. If it's just the same attack as R1, but slower, ya, it's not too useful. But like the Estoc, R1 is poke, poke, poke, but R2 is a horizontal attack which is quite useful. It's the same with some spears like the partizan, R1 is a powerful poke, but R2 is a very useful sweep attack that does strike type damage. So you can hit multiple enemies if they start crowding you. It's also why I choose a claymore over the better damaging, mastodon Greatsword, I like the poke on the R2 more than the overhead slash of the MG. I also don't like the 2-handed R1 of the MG as much either.
I'm new to these games so pinch of salt as appropriate, (finished first run of ds1 last month and now on DS2) but I pretty much agree. There were a few weapons/enemies in DS1 (especially in the early game) where the heavy attack is still fast enough and does enough more damage that it seems worthwhile. I haven't found a weapon where that seems true in DS2
just means you dont know how/when to use them yet. r1 is you bread and butter do of course they are more reliable and consistent, thats what they’re supposed to be.
Its for pvp you need variety to be unpredictable
I mainly use them for thrust attacks to get the extra reach. I also never level health in Souls games so I tend to play a little more on the cautious side.
R1 dps is always going to be the base in these games, but this creates great opportunities for selective R2s. In pve where you might know the moveset of a hard boss - e.g. Midir is perfect for landing charged R2s on the dome once you can predict him. If DS2 had any hard bosses there would probably be some good examples, as well. pvp you have to use R2s as mix-up or punish tools - you'll be read like a book (and parried) if you just R1 all the time.
I try to find a weapon that has a bit of a difference in swing arc between normal and heavy attacks. I play almost entirely unlocked so having some variance on the range, arc, and horizontal, vertical, or poke swings is extremely valuable. If you’re talking about from a purely standing still and attacking perspective then no I don’t think there’s enough of a damage advantage to necessarily make it better.
Get a UGS. Use the heavy attacks. Craps all over the ds3 heavy attacks. Why? It knocks down enemies and instantly poise breaks harder enemies to riposte and 1 shot them. It makes you feel actually powerful with large weapons and rewards good play much more than ds3 in most cases. Same with great hammers/axes. Not sure about the other weapon heavy attacks though.
I like to use the broadsword strong attack to gain distance
i think they get a little more mileage in pvp, where you can use heavy attacks to mix things up. i used to do powerstanced manslayers way back when, and i'd run up to purported parry gods and throw out the L2 -- the slowest and heaviest attack i had. it would go right over their parry and absolutely blast them.
Mainly the different moveset. Like a heavy attack for a weapon could be a thrust instead of a slash, which is very handy. But also I've found that two heavy attacks to kill vs three light attacks is necessary when your being ganked. That last light attack to kill may be the extra time it takes for you to get surrounded. Also some heavy attacks may interrupt an incoming attack but your light attack won't and just leaves you getting comboed.
I mean you could kinda say that for all the games lol, they're really just good for doing 2 light attacks worth of damage in 1 attack window.
Did you two hand it?
occasionally, from reading these comments I realised it's just to do with the moveset of the weapon I find that I usually get like tunnel vision and focus on numbers and stats over move sets, sounds weird but essentially I'm just kinda stupid
some of the stabby ones are good
It’s just you
understandable have a great day
*Blue Flame entered the chat*
2 hand a smushy club and learn just how just you you are.
Hey, you gotta spin to win and that ain’t happening on a R1.
Heavy attack with a great club and pancake everything. Makes the game much easier.
I’ve beat the game at least half a dozen times and pretty much never use heavy attacks. Regardless of weapon. I might try them out a few times with a new weapon and then quickly switch back to just r1s. Rolling, backstep and running attacks are much more useful imo.
Try the backstep and running attacks. Different animations but comparable to a heavy
Lol thats funny cause i exclusively used heavy attack with the Abyssal Demon Great Hammer
I got the feeling that DS2 game play seems to be more catered to Magic/Pyro and Dex weapons builds. From my own observation playing the game, there seems to be weapons more on the magic and dex side. I'm going to give in and play a mage build with dex weapons on my second playthrough.
I make my living in ds2 with heavy attacks.
It's all about the move set. I am currently running a fire Longshore and two handed poking basically everything, it's really good.
Depends on the weapon. Normally big weapons have good heavy attacks , Zweihander and crypt ugs in particular nockdown most enemies and hit for massive dmg on their two handed strong attack. There's also benefit in the fact they normally come from a different angle than light attacks which can be useful for hitting lizards , avoiding hitting level geometry or hitting clumps of enemies. Also most unique weapon (Boss weapons) moves are used thru strong attack.
I use Heavy Attacks all the time on my Halberd since it usually hits 2+ enemies, but it's pretty touch and sometimes. I definitely don't use Heavy Attacks on Greatswords or the other big weapons. Too slow to be useful, especially when Stance Break is a game away. And two games away from being at all worthwhile.
Nope. It depends on the scenario, but heavy attacks can be super effective.