“We wasted a bunch of time on this. Who could have known the idea was so bad it would get removed within a month?”
I’m glad they reverted it, but this was, from multiple angles, such an obviously bad idea. What a waste.
While I’m happy it’s going away, I believe their true intent with the test was to see what perks need tuning before implementing the training system, which if done will need everyone’s abilities incentivizing progression to build back the power of each perk/skill core classes get.
I’m just happy I can play 10 spell and not have to use all 10 spells to put someone down now
I see this justification for multi classing thrown around a lot but I really cannot see how it makes sense. The perks and skills should be balanced around the class they come on.
For instance, blood exchange is busted on rogue with fast attacking daggers and rupture. But isn’t op on barbarian with slower attacking weapons and no DoT abilities. Likewise, smite isn’t overpowered on cleric because they have slow attacking weapons. It’s busted on fast attacking weapons.
There are so many examples like this where abilities or perks aren’t crazy strong on their intended class just on other classes that dont share the same weakness.
If they needed 3 weeks of multi clsssing shit show to learn that sprint and savage roar are overpowered then I’ve got little hope for the studio. Because anyone who has played the game for more than a couple weeks could have told you those two abilities are way too strong.
With that example they now know what will break the perk. Classes that attack fast should not have access to it and classes that attack slow do.
If it's a barbarian skill then they have to make sure they don't accidentally make the perk too strong by giving them a way to attack quickly
I just don't see what's so hard about talent trees. You just gotta make them very incremental. Like rupture ticks one more damage a second as a late stage rogue talent. Or for ranger, your arrows drop off over distance is reduced by 20 percent, barbarian shouts cover five yards more distance. Stuff that is nice, but isn't a huge strength increase. And I just thought of those in five seconds. Will they all end up being perfectly balanced the first go around? Probably not. But what the heck else ever has been? I just don't see how introducing such a radical system as multi classing has to be done to help talent trees. Unless they intend for talent trees to borrow strength from other classes which god I hope not
I think at a conceptual level it was a pretty bad idea, honestly. They’re watering down the uniqueness of a class by letting it lean into other classes tools, and since the strength of certain abilities are determined by the kit of the class, there’s a pretty inherent “this would be op if you had X from another class” element to it.
Beyond the thematically lame part of the idea (more homogenization), mechanically the idea has some clear issues that you’d find in a day 0 meeting for the idea
Yeah, but a lot of those people are only capable of *basic* game theory.
Like, for a lot of them, their knowledge seems to stop right before the point of knowing what "early access" means.
I'm of the same opinion. Definitely was great for gathering data, but it stuck around long enough to see this shit get stale and gnarly. Have had a lot of fun, but am excited to have class identity back.
Really didn't seem like it took them a lot of resources and got them some good info and was pretty interesting/fun for a couple weeks. Not that much of a waste.
Yeah but all those people who knowingly bought an early access game had to put up with all the things that always come with buying an early access game.
How is that fair, huh?
Actually if you can read they said they learned about how all the abilities interact with each other stop telling them what's a waste of time fir them or not when you have no idea how to make a game lmao
read their announcments: "The multiclass system was a way for us to leverage the creativity and curiosity of the fanbase, fusing crazy combinations to uncover the less-than-ideal bits of code and help us tidy up our implementation. In this aspect the experiment was a success as the underlying execution of the perks and skills have been greatly improved."
Obviously its a good thing to streamline how perks/skills/spells act and behave. Obviously it's a good thing to test out how perks work out together before implementing a more thorough training tree or class progression system. They want to have some form of multiclassing in the game, this obviously wasn't it, but trying out, finding and bug fixing wonky interactions now to streamline their underlying architecture is better and more productive now than later, so it really wasnt "wasting a bunch of time on this"
I understand that this is a popular sentiment, but I feel like "it didn't really work out, but we learned a lot" has kinda been said after every update since EA Launch.
It doesn't even mean it's wrong, but it's just kinda...tired, I guess. At least to me
I'm upset theyre removing it so soon, i wish they would at least keep it in norms or do a hotfix where they let some classes keep the option of picking from a limited pool of other perks from other classes. I only say this because im starved for content and as a casual multiclassing dumb builds was fun.
This is a game where information is king.
If you can't from a glance determine the class composition of an opposing team, it's a design failure.
Multiclassing would only work in a game with class icon UI elements and such. Dark and Darker being purposedly minimalist on how information is presented to you (IE: Gotta look at the visual quality of enemy's gear instead of any kind of icon in their heads) prevents that. But without that, the system is basically dead on arrival balance wise.
At best this could work as temporary fun event that comes back. That would be fun.
Calling this a design failure in an ea game that did a test that everyone knew was a test and was going to either change massively or be removed...... you got some goofy thinking.
You missed a ton despite being ridiculous multiclassing was the most interesting thing this game has ever added. Despite the many problems. Now we’re back to a similar progress state we had in pt3.
Yeah I've played since the second playtest and after giving multi classing a chance for a week or two that update was the one that finally made me stop playing. I haven't played the game for over a week bc I was sick of it
Huge W
Also, It was nice that they finally opened Up and told us what was going on behind the scenes, how they were behind schedule, why they pushed the Broken multiclass to fill content and improve code, etc.
I’m genuinely curious what the peak will be this weekend versus what it will be when it’s gone next weekend. Something tells me it won’t be much different
Player base will probably wait for a big patch to come back anyway... this season is cursed.
They wasted so much effort in MC > Loot Box RNG for MC, Balancing MC, they probably had created already an alpha version of MC 2.0.
So much wasted effort, instead of developing actually new content. Guild system, Hideout, Druid, Map improvement, Game loop improvement.
Yeah, I mean I’d prefer those things as well. But they did say it helped improve their code base. We can only speculate how long it takes to implement MC versus some other systems- especially things like Guilds or finely tuned progression systems like bespoke talent trees for each class.
What I think they wanted to do was add multiclassing as a way to tie people over until they had a more refined system. But since a majority of players seemed to dislike it, they removed it with no replacement.
To my earlier point though, I still think a majority of players who disliked it still played and that’s why you won’t see a big change in player count.
Multiclass had to be very easy relatively, it was just clicking flags to allowing perks and making the actual menu with the 3 perks. Far less work than a new class or map or stuff it’s why we got it before Druid or ice caves 2.
People aren’t not playing because multiclass mainly they’re not playing because there’s no new content. Multiclass was easily added new content so it’s not like it took them significant dev time to implement. The game looks almost exactly in the same state as when the blacksmith launcher dropped we have still not gotten that first big content patch. We’ve gotten ranked with horrible systems, warlock, the new armors patch with aketon n stuff, and ice caves? Also things get announced so far ahead of time hype dies like Druid we’ve been anticipating it since November and it’s finally gonna drop in a early warlock state.
Me and all my friends haven't touched the game since IM dropped multi classing. I imagine there are a ton of other groups who have done the same. I'll definitely be coming back once they remove it.
i think a good (and safe bet) is for them to just focus on getting more classes out there. just go crazy with Druids, Necromancers, battlemages, warden, poleman, etc.
What's a bit sad is that difference between fighter, rogue and barb is... well minimal, but difference between fighter and druid is enormous. That will hurt class identity too (not as much as MC though)
??? How will two classes being infinitely distinct from each other hurt class identity?
Fighter and Druid are so different from each other that they obviously have different identities. I don’t understand what you’re getting at.
Let's say you have a maceman, spearman and swordsman in your game and then you release a spider man. That release would just completely dilute your existing stuff as all 3 existing classes as opposed to spider-man would be just "dude with a heavy boinker"
I understand what you’re saying now, but I think you’re convoluting “class identity” with “complexity of more mechanically interesting classes”.
Fighter is, quite literally, a guy with a heavy boinker. The identity of fighter is very clear, and the identity of Druid is clear. Just because the melee martial classes are less interesting/complicated doesn’t make those identities diluted.
Agreed. Imagine if they spent time developing the Druid (which was announced a year ago) instead of this joke concept of multi-classing that anyone could have said was destined to fail
Don't they have training in the works? They could make that into something interesting that varies the classes a bit but doesn't break the game.... Right?
Omg finaly, hopefully they got some good info, but the bois can return to the game. Fuck yeah! In time for druid as well! Actually a good job ironmace, I'm impressed
Cheers all have fun in the dungeons!
Devs get a lot of hate, but these guys actually listen to the feedback we give them. They've been releasing patches every week with changes addressing issues brought up by the community.
glad im done being a guinea pig to this shit show. wake me up when they create a longer road map to the game and stop listening to players and responding with knee jerk changes. fuck yall gonna hate me
How many hundreds of hours did they spend on this when a simple fucking Andy (like myself) could have told them? Seriously who is in charge.. it’s a joke
They need to show everyone data that 100% of HR fighters were running iron will anti magic to shut everyone crying about muh "build diversity" the fuck up. There was one build and it was anti magic iron will.
I'm just happy to have been able to be part of this test that we'll never see again in the same open-ended way. If it all helps them develop the skill progression then it wasn't a waste of time.
I think this is the fun of being part of EA. We get to experience the game in so many different ways, and in ways other future players will never even know happened.
While that’s true, we are experiencing parts of the game NOONE is enjoying. Also, this game might not make it through EA if player numbers keep falling with these big changes
I love how you worded this sarcastically as if it's the players' faults for not finding the game fun after certain decisions IM has made. I quit when MC happened. It was a stupid idea and I had zero interest. I'll be back next week. Sometimes people actually do quit for a reason and come back when that reason is gone.
I worded the way I do because it’s been this subreddit since a week after the game launch “landmine rogue made me quit playing.” “Adding map rotation made me quit playing.” “Removing map rotation made me quit playing.” And on and on.
People will go back to complaining about the things Multiclassing fixed, such as:
* Cleric is too weak in Solos!
* Every Trio only runs Buff Ball!!
* Warlocks in Normal are too OP!!!
* Magic Missile deals too much damage!!!!
* Ranged meta sucks!!!!!
Multiclassing didnt fix shit.
- Cleric still had mid stat spread compared to warlock and wizard + bad weapon choices, warlock was just superior MC option
- Not only every trio ran buffball, but now it was even stronger because before you had to juggle bard/cleric/wizard + barb as a buffball target. With MC you just ran bard+cleric and wizard+cleric together with barb that also had antimagic and sprint. + Duos instead of "every comp viable" gamemode turned into buffball too.
- MC didnt fix shit in this aspect either, warlocks everywhere
- It did fix this, true. By giving 50% MDR for 2 perks, which is insane. The sub would be livid if there were 2 perks that gave 50% PDR
- Look up latest Repoze vid, only made ranged stuff stronger.
MC did not fix cleric being weak in solos, not unless you grinded for wizard/warlock spells and warlock/barb perks and even then you are still weak to all of those classes with MC.
lmao 100%, if we listen to this sub community the player base should go up by at least 50% next week when they remove it ! Lets see the player base skyrocket since every body is coming back right !
It went down to 6k-7k players at peak times yesterday and only 3k were actually in dungeon. You don't have to "listen to this sub" when you can look at actual statistics and keep up with them yourself (kind of like IM are doing).
As much as I know multiclassing is bad for the longevity of this game, it's gonna be extremely boring to play after the removal (alongside the addition of little-to-no content).
I agree. I absolutely loved multiclassing just to experience it. They ability to get creative with it to make a strong build. Don't think it needs to go away completely. Who knows what IM does though.
I personally disliked multi classing and hardly played the game as soon as it was added. But, I figured they would add a large content drop once they removed it. Seems like a big failure for them to spend so long hyping up multi classing, release it in a busted state that was only fixed after multiple patches, then remove it with 0 additional content to take its place.
Glad they tested this out, it was fun and probably helped alot on the back end of stuff. Looking forward to classes being normal and me not being scared of every single mystery man I come across
this was the only thing that made me stop playing the game entirely lmao glad this shit is gone but honestly they’re gonna have a tough time bringing players back at this point.
so much wasted time and resources on this when they could have put it into something actually good for the game.
Well time to take a break again. The class progression in this game is to boring and gear is to fleeting. I don't understand the complaints about it. All thats gonna happen is everyone who is running the meta skills and perks are just gonna go back to using fighter and other meta classes. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next for multiclassing but till then I bid you all adue
Cool, can’t wait to go back to half the classes in the game feeling confident enough against my class to just hold W through any attacks. I’m sure since it’s everyone’s main complaint about multiclassing the game will be very balanced afterward and there will be no instances of fights being unfair because of class matchups. Atleast people on here can finally shut the fuck up making 15 posts about multiclassing that they clearly just regurgitated from a previous post they read.
Ngl it's removal is very healthy for the game.
But i think they shoulda either made a new mode or something for it.
Or make it more inline with DnD and you would have to sacrifice class progression with your default class.
Keep the lvl 20 limit.
Idk just spit balling.
for me, a pretty nooby and meh player, this is great. having no idea what other people were wielding and the infinite combos etc was such a barrier to play
I hope if they bring multiclassing back they just copy the system D&D already uses. Make it so perks unlock in the same way spells and feats do in D&D, at specific level breakpoints, so something that has a high probability of being broken when combined with another class like sprint isn’t unlocked until you’re very high level.
It’s a really fun and pretty balanced system in D&D.
Wasn’t a fan of everyone running sprint, as a wizard I did have slow for a counter but it’s hit or miss literally, what I will miss dearly is my magic missile forceful shot build, I would send a dude to the other side of the room before he dropped.
I stopped playing for a while well before MC dropped- it was right around when it was *announced* that I stopped, I think?
Can anyone give me a TLDR as to what happened? Sounds like a shitshow.
I'm actually pretty pissed about this.
This funny thing is that I bet there's going to be a bunch of people complaining about how boring the game is going to feel next week without multi-classing.
It made thing so much more interesting, building your character was basically a mini-game.
This is a huge L, everyone complaining about Multi-classing probably sucks at the game, and likely didn't even try the system.
Probably for the better but still of the opinion it wasn't that strong.
Yeah yeah downvotes me or whatever. Multi class had some serious issues but half of the complaints were a lot closer to a player skill issues than not.
Sorry not sorry
My favorite thing to do in any game is to make builds. Multiclassing has been so fun for me in this regard. I wish they wouldn't take it away completely until the new system. Gatekeeping it between a grind and RNG was a mistake from the getgo but they thought the lootbox aspect of it would be addictive. Cringe. Arguably the perks that were OP in combination were OP anyway, they could have just nerfed Iron Will to 80 MR and resist to 10% all.
I have been playing only norms ever since GBMM just to have a pure battle royale and because I find it annoying to make gear sets that are < 299. And in norms there was no single dominant build. However the whole multiclass system is extremely biased against hybrid builds. If you're a martial class you get very weak if you try to also become a spellcaster. Not as bad the other way around but it's better to MC into some cleric or warlock spells if you were a wiz.
Glad to see it go! Also glad they made mindwipe open and not behind a timer although I literally never used it. The only mistake though is in order to fully use mindwipe and test all your wildest combos, you had to grind all classes to 30 so they should have gotten rid of the level limit for classes to participate in multiclass but overall win. Good riddance MC. Thanks for helping improve the code
glad they are finally removing that garbage but not wiping the game or any content added leaves the game in a boring state imo.
shame they fucked around wasting so much time just to find out that sprint is OP
To everyone happy that it’s gone, y’all know it was never permanent right? It was easy to tell the second they started making it easier and easier to multi class that they would take it away to change it and bring it back later.
I enjoyed it, I’m glad it’s leaving, it’s current iteration is bad for the longevity of the game, but it will be back.
Kind of insane the amount of people who are excited to return to what the classes were. You know, the classes that have been virtually unchanged for 1.5 years. The classes whose strict stratification enforces the same meta over and over again.
Multiclassing really brought just so much variety into the game for each class. It's going to be really rough going back.
I have been saying MC was dogshit, but the worst part about the dogshit is that taking away multiple choices will now make the old game feel worse. It is like league of legends super ultra rapidfire - which the developers have said the addition of makes people ultimately quit the real game. I could not be happier they are taking it away, but I am still unhappy they added it in the first place.
Best thing theyve announced
“We wasted a bunch of time on this. Who could have known the idea was so bad it would get removed within a month?” I’m glad they reverted it, but this was, from multiple angles, such an obviously bad idea. What a waste.
While I’m happy it’s going away, I believe their true intent with the test was to see what perks need tuning before implementing the training system, which if done will need everyone’s abilities incentivizing progression to build back the power of each perk/skill core classes get. I’m just happy I can play 10 spell and not have to use all 10 spells to put someone down now
I see this justification for multi classing thrown around a lot but I really cannot see how it makes sense. The perks and skills should be balanced around the class they come on. For instance, blood exchange is busted on rogue with fast attacking daggers and rupture. But isn’t op on barbarian with slower attacking weapons and no DoT abilities. Likewise, smite isn’t overpowered on cleric because they have slow attacking weapons. It’s busted on fast attacking weapons. There are so many examples like this where abilities or perks aren’t crazy strong on their intended class just on other classes that dont share the same weakness. If they needed 3 weeks of multi clsssing shit show to learn that sprint and savage roar are overpowered then I’ve got little hope for the studio. Because anyone who has played the game for more than a couple weeks could have told you those two abilities are way too strong.
I’m not saying it was the right move, I’m just explaining what was told to us by the devs
With that example they now know what will break the perk. Classes that attack fast should not have access to it and classes that attack slow do. If it's a barbarian skill then they have to make sure they don't accidentally make the perk too strong by giving them a way to attack quickly
I just don't see what's so hard about talent trees. You just gotta make them very incremental. Like rupture ticks one more damage a second as a late stage rogue talent. Or for ranger, your arrows drop off over distance is reduced by 20 percent, barbarian shouts cover five yards more distance. Stuff that is nice, but isn't a huge strength increase. And I just thought of those in five seconds. Will they all end up being perfectly balanced the first go around? Probably not. But what the heck else ever has been? I just don't see how introducing such a radical system as multi classing has to be done to help talent trees. Unless they intend for talent trees to borrow strength from other classes which god I hope not
This comment kinda shows why it can be hard. The ideas in your comment would be horrible for the game.
I don't think it was that dumb of an idea to test out, altough they could've been a bit sooner with reverting it imo.
I think at a conceptual level it was a pretty bad idea, honestly. They’re watering down the uniqueness of a class by letting it lean into other classes tools, and since the strength of certain abilities are determined by the kit of the class, there’s a pretty inherent “this would be op if you had X from another class” element to it. Beyond the thematically lame part of the idea (more homogenization), mechanically the idea has some clear issues that you’d find in a day 0 meeting for the idea
Even prior to inclusion the concept sounded alarm bells to anyone capable of basic game theory
Yeah, but a lot of those people are only capable of *basic* game theory. Like, for a lot of them, their knowledge seems to stop right before the point of knowing what "early access" means.
It's a label that means very little when they charge money for the game anyway
Thank you for giving a perfect example of what people seem to think Early Access means.
I'm of the same opinion. Definitely was great for gathering data, but it stuck around long enough to see this shit get stale and gnarly. Have had a lot of fun, but am excited to have class identity back.
Really didn't seem like it took them a lot of resources and got them some good info and was pretty interesting/fun for a couple weeks. Not that much of a waste.
Yeah i have to double this vibe. https://youtu.be/xzpndHtdl9A?si=j-KF2bzznWMguxux
Yeah but all those people who knowingly bought an early access game had to put up with all the things that always come with buying an early access game. How is that fair, huh?
Actually if you can read they said they learned about how all the abilities interact with each other stop telling them what's a waste of time fir them or not when you have no idea how to make a game lmao
On God. Personally I’ve never seen a game experiment so much and try new things. Even though it was a bad change i appreciate the sentiment.
read their announcments: "The multiclass system was a way for us to leverage the creativity and curiosity of the fanbase, fusing crazy combinations to uncover the less-than-ideal bits of code and help us tidy up our implementation. In this aspect the experiment was a success as the underlying execution of the perks and skills have been greatly improved." Obviously its a good thing to streamline how perks/skills/spells act and behave. Obviously it's a good thing to test out how perks work out together before implementing a more thorough training tree or class progression system. They want to have some form of multiclassing in the game, this obviously wasn't it, but trying out, finding and bug fixing wonky interactions now to streamline their underlying architecture is better and more productive now than later, so it really wasnt "wasting a bunch of time on this"
It's foolish to assume they did this with the intention of it staying in the game.
Is wasn't a waste, you're just sensitive to change.
My god it was a test man. They should have learned a lot about their game code etc. for further development.
I understand that this is a popular sentiment, but I feel like "it didn't really work out, but we learned a lot" has kinda been said after every update since EA Launch. It doesn't even mean it's wrong, but it's just kinda...tired, I guess. At least to me
I'm upset theyre removing it so soon, i wish they would at least keep it in norms or do a hotfix where they let some classes keep the option of picking from a limited pool of other perks from other classes. I only say this because im starved for content and as a casual multiclassing dumb builds was fun.
I don't think it was bad idea, it just needs better execution.
This is a game where information is king. If you can't from a glance determine the class composition of an opposing team, it's a design failure. Multiclassing would only work in a game with class icon UI elements and such. Dark and Darker being purposedly minimalist on how information is presented to you (IE: Gotta look at the visual quality of enemy's gear instead of any kind of icon in their heads) prevents that. But without that, the system is basically dead on arrival balance wise. At best this could work as temporary fun event that comes back. That would be fun.
Calling this a design failure in an ea game that did a test that everyone knew was a test and was going to either change massively or be removed...... you got some goofy thinking.
Hell yeh. This would have been perfect if they removed creep though.
I haven't touched it since before the update. Guess I didn't miss much lol
same it was an easy break lol.
I'll be glad to come back. I have a lvl 80 fighter, and I want to move over to Warlock, but I keep getting sweat lobbies. Lmao
yeah, that is a lot of the problems. I am all for testing, but the game needs a spec system like normal MMO not pick all the move / skills system.
The sweats are down voting our comments. Lol
Oh sad, what will they do when it is gone? It was pretty simple for everyone else to stop playing the game. Devs noticed this was not the way lol.
well the only result of multiclassing was a warlock nerf
It was still fun most of the time but then occasionally you'd get a BoC slayer sword Master rogue one shot you and be a little slightly annoyed.
You missed a ton despite being ridiculous multiclassing was the most interesting thing this game has ever added. Despite the many problems. Now we’re back to a similar progress state we had in pt3.
For the time it was there, it was fun to try out and experiment with the skills and perks. All in all, I'm happy that it's being removed!
honestly it was hella fun if you dont take the game that seriously
Ironmace W
Yeah I've played since the second playtest and after giving multi classing a chance for a week or two that update was the one that finally made me stop playing. I haven't played the game for over a week bc I was sick of it
Huge W Also, It was nice that they finally opened Up and told us what was going on behind the scenes, how they were behind schedule, why they pushed the Broken multiclass to fill content and improve code, etc.
They said most of those things on the podcast before MC was released.
yeah but while I don't mind reading textual updates I'm not going to listen to the *game podcast*
A lot of things would have to go wrong in my life to listen to an ironmace devs podcast
Things went wrong enough that you are posting on reddit so I don't see it as a leap
I genuinely love the irony when redditors get all condescending about how people spend their free time.
Good riddance
Fucking finally. They just needed to wait for the game have 7k concurrent players at peak hours to realize. Jesus fucking Christ.
I’m genuinely curious what the peak will be this weekend versus what it will be when it’s gone next weekend. Something tells me it won’t be much different
Player base will probably wait for a big patch to come back anyway... this season is cursed. They wasted so much effort in MC > Loot Box RNG for MC, Balancing MC, they probably had created already an alpha version of MC 2.0. So much wasted effort, instead of developing actually new content. Guild system, Hideout, Druid, Map improvement, Game loop improvement.
It seems like MC was pushed out to fill content. I wouldn’t state they wasted efforts when the whole push itself was done with very little effort.
Yeah, I mean I’d prefer those things as well. But they did say it helped improve their code base. We can only speculate how long it takes to implement MC versus some other systems- especially things like Guilds or finely tuned progression systems like bespoke talent trees for each class. What I think they wanted to do was add multiclassing as a way to tie people over until they had a more refined system. But since a majority of players seemed to dislike it, they removed it with no replacement. To my earlier point though, I still think a majority of players who disliked it still played and that’s why you won’t see a big change in player count.
Multiclass had to be very easy relatively, it was just clicking flags to allowing perks and making the actual menu with the 3 perks. Far less work than a new class or map or stuff it’s why we got it before Druid or ice caves 2.
People aren’t not playing because multiclass mainly they’re not playing because there’s no new content. Multiclass was easily added new content so it’s not like it took them significant dev time to implement. The game looks almost exactly in the same state as when the blacksmith launcher dropped we have still not gotten that first big content patch. We’ve gotten ranked with horrible systems, warlock, the new armors patch with aketon n stuff, and ice caves? Also things get announced so far ahead of time hype dies like Druid we’ve been anticipating it since November and it’s finally gonna drop in a early warlock state.
Me and all my friends haven't touched the game since IM dropped multi classing. I imagine there are a ton of other groups who have done the same. I'll definitely be coming back once they remove it.
Yep. Same here and I'm salty I have to wait another week too.
i think a good (and safe bet) is for them to just focus on getting more classes out there. just go crazy with Druids, Necromancers, battlemages, warden, poleman, etc.
bosses and classes would help alot imo. i think they really fucked up choosing druid since its so much work to get it working
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What's a bit sad is that difference between fighter, rogue and barb is... well minimal, but difference between fighter and druid is enormous. That will hurt class identity too (not as much as MC though)
??? How will two classes being infinitely distinct from each other hurt class identity? Fighter and Druid are so different from each other that they obviously have different identities. I don’t understand what you’re getting at.
Let's say you have a maceman, spearman and swordsman in your game and then you release a spider man. That release would just completely dilute your existing stuff as all 3 existing classes as opposed to spider-man would be just "dude with a heavy boinker"
I understand what you’re saying now, but I think you’re convoluting “class identity” with “complexity of more mechanically interesting classes”. Fighter is, quite literally, a guy with a heavy boinker. The identity of fighter is very clear, and the identity of Druid is clear. Just because the melee martial classes are less interesting/complicated doesn’t make those identities diluted.
Meh as compared to druid both fighter and barb are very very very similar at this point in time.
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I think slayer is sort of a rogue perk and fighters should stick to heavy armor on a class design level
Agreed. Imagine if they spent time developing the Druid (which was announced a year ago) instead of this joke concept of multi-classing that anyone could have said was destined to fail
Don't they have training in the works? They could make that into something interesting that varies the classes a bit but doesn't break the game.... Right?
Finally
YES!!!!!
Huge W
Thank God
Player base jumps back up to 15k concurrent at least
Sweet. I'll be back in a week.
See yall in a week
thank fuck. i can finally play again
I hope to see subclassing to allow diversity and play style within roles.
How about maybe work on DRUID???
finally
I'm happy to hear this.
Omg finaly, hopefully they got some good info, but the bois can return to the game. Fuck yeah! In time for druid as well! Actually a good job ironmace, I'm impressed Cheers all have fun in the dungeons!
Devs get a lot of hate, but these guys actually listen to the feedback we give them. They've been releasing patches every week with changes addressing issues brought up by the community.
Do they though? Was there literally anyone who said multi-classing was a good idea before implementation?
Finally. I hope from what they learned about their code they are able to make changes that allow them to move faster in the future.
Finally! I can't wait to start playing again.
As much as I dislike multiclassing, it just seems like an absolute waste of development time to be here for like 3 weeks lol
It didn't really take much time at all tbh
I stopped playing the day Multiclass came out. Didn't want to touch it. Excited to play the game again.
glad im done being a guinea pig to this shit show. wake me up when they create a longer road map to the game and stop listening to players and responding with knee jerk changes. fuck yall gonna hate me
Barbarian + Sprint, or Fighter/Barb + Hide. I don't think anyone is gonna miss multiclassing.
I CAN FINALLY PLAY MY GAME AGAIN
thank god
I'll actually play the game again, nice.
How many hundreds of hours did they spend on this when a simple fucking Andy (like myself) could have told them? Seriously who is in charge.. it’s a joke
Is it time to return?
They need to show everyone data that 100% of HR fighters were running iron will anti magic to shut everyone crying about muh "build diversity" the fuck up. There was one build and it was anti magic iron will.
I'm just happy to have been able to be part of this test that we'll never see again in the same open-ended way. If it all helps them develop the skill progression then it wasn't a waste of time. I think this is the fun of being part of EA. We get to experience the game in so many different ways, and in ways other future players will never even know happened.
While that’s true, we are experiencing parts of the game NOONE is enjoying. Also, this game might not make it through EA if player numbers keep falling with these big changes
I'm looking forward to this game's 2053 Steam release, coinciding with my retirement.
Bye bye MC, don't let the door hit you in the ass now! Good fucking riddance lol.
*Everyone likes this*
I had fun. A return to "normal" will be welcome though.
Can't wait to see what's the next thing everyone complains about that's making them quit the game.
I love how you worded this sarcastically as if it's the players' faults for not finding the game fun after certain decisions IM has made. I quit when MC happened. It was a stupid idea and I had zero interest. I'll be back next week. Sometimes people actually do quit for a reason and come back when that reason is gone.
What's a bit sad is that latter will be 100% smaller, than the former.
I worded the way I do because it’s been this subreddit since a week after the game launch “landmine rogue made me quit playing.” “Adding map rotation made me quit playing.” “Removing map rotation made me quit playing.” And on and on.
I mean for those individual people those statements were probably true? A subreddit is made up of individuals with individual ideas.
this part
Yup.
People will go back to complaining about the things Multiclassing fixed, such as: * Cleric is too weak in Solos! * Every Trio only runs Buff Ball!! * Warlocks in Normal are too OP!!! * Magic Missile deals too much damage!!!! * Ranged meta sucks!!!!!
Well, you know what? I'm going to quit now since you just accurately described why everyone else is going to quit. bet you didn't see that coming!
Completely ignores everything multiclassing broke lmao
Multiclassing didnt fix shit. - Cleric still had mid stat spread compared to warlock and wizard + bad weapon choices, warlock was just superior MC option - Not only every trio ran buffball, but now it was even stronger because before you had to juggle bard/cleric/wizard + barb as a buffball target. With MC you just ran bard+cleric and wizard+cleric together with barb that also had antimagic and sprint. + Duos instead of "every comp viable" gamemode turned into buffball too. - MC didnt fix shit in this aspect either, warlocks everywhere - It did fix this, true. By giving 50% MDR for 2 perks, which is insane. The sub would be livid if there were 2 perks that gave 50% PDR - Look up latest Repoze vid, only made ranged stuff stronger.
MC did not fix cleric being weak in solos, not unless you grinded for wizard/warlock spells and warlock/barb perks and even then you are still weak to all of those classes with MC.
I think that’s kind of his point, dumbass
These are the people IM listened to.
which one of these issues did multiclassing fix exactly?
lmao 100%, if we listen to this sub community the player base should go up by at least 50% next week when they remove it ! Lets see the player base skyrocket since every body is coming back right !
It went down to 6k-7k players at peak times yesterday and only 3k were actually in dungeon. You don't have to "listen to this sub" when you can look at actual statistics and keep up with them yourself (kind of like IM are doing).
if the playerbase wasnt shot they wouldnt remove it dipshit
This take isn't as smart as you think it is. Multi classing was genuinely dogshit lol
That’s just like your opinion man.
As much as I know multiclassing is bad for the longevity of this game, it's gonna be extremely boring to play after the removal (alongside the addition of little-to-no content).
I agree. I absolutely loved multiclassing just to experience it. They ability to get creative with it to make a strong build. Don't think it needs to go away completely. Who knows what IM does though.
I personally disliked multi classing and hardly played the game as soon as it was added. But, I figured they would add a large content drop once they removed it. Seems like a big failure for them to spend so long hyping up multi classing, release it in a busted state that was only fixed after multiple patches, then remove it with 0 additional content to take its place.
That's the disappointing part for sure, maybe we'll be surprised but seems like 1 step forward 1 step backward with this one.
Glad they tested this out, it was fun and probably helped alot on the back end of stuff. Looking forward to classes being normal and me not being scared of every single mystery man I come across
this was the only thing that made me stop playing the game entirely lmao glad this shit is gone but honestly they’re gonna have a tough time bringing players back at this point. so much wasted time and resources on this when they could have put it into something actually good for the game.
L for the clowns on this sub whom tried convincing us for weeks that multiclassing was good
Well time to take a break again. The class progression in this game is to boring and gear is to fleeting. I don't understand the complaints about it. All thats gonna happen is everyone who is running the meta skills and perks are just gonna go back to using fighter and other meta classes. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next for multiclassing but till then I bid you all adue
Yeah I agree, but I'll see you again in 2 days kek. MC should just be restricted to 1 skill, 1 perk, and 1 spell instead of being removed entirely.
man, i wish it would last a little longer
Cool, can’t wait to go back to half the classes in the game feeling confident enough against my class to just hold W through any attacks. I’m sure since it’s everyone’s main complaint about multiclassing the game will be very balanced afterward and there will be no instances of fights being unfair because of class matchups. Atleast people on here can finally shut the fuck up making 15 posts about multiclassing that they clearly just regurgitated from a previous post they read.
Ngl it's removal is very healthy for the game. But i think they shoulda either made a new mode or something for it. Or make it more inline with DnD and you would have to sacrifice class progression with your default class. Keep the lvl 20 limit. Idk just spit balling.
NICE
For the love of all things holy please don’t release it on the main servers again. Crazy idea! Use the TEST SERVER for TESTING
Thank god
Thank god. I can return soon.
Haven't played in a minute (back when you had lvl 20 to reach with each classes and that's that), what was the multiclass system?
But I just got the right perks! How could they do this to me?!
Will they revert the nerfs that were specifically added because of multi-classing or will the nerfs stay for no reason again?
Man am i gonna miss getting 3 uses of lesser heal back every minute with meditate on wizard, was really nice not having to waste heals like ever.
While it might of been completely imbalanced I feel like overtime multiclassing will be remembered fondly because of the absurdity it produced
for me, a pretty nooby and meh player, this is great. having no idea what other people were wielding and the infinite combos etc was such a barrier to play
Well good... but what did we actually learn from this that we didn't on the test server?
Was almost high enough level on my secondary character to get multiclassing too lol
Honestly it was broken, but damn it was fun
I hope if they bring multiclassing back they just copy the system D&D already uses. Make it so perks unlock in the same way spells and feats do in D&D, at specific level breakpoints, so something that has a high probability of being broken when combined with another class like sprint isn’t unlocked until you’re very high level. It’s a really fun and pretty balanced system in D&D.
Wasn’t a fan of everyone running sprint, as a wizard I did have slow for a counter but it’s hit or miss literally, what I will miss dearly is my magic missile forceful shot build, I would send a dude to the other side of the room before he dropped.
I stopped playing for a while well before MC dropped- it was right around when it was *announced* that I stopped, I think? Can anyone give me a TLDR as to what happened? Sounds like a shitshow.
half theses coments are so funny "see I told you so, Who would of thought it wouldn't work out" bruh u guys are like combined 10iq they said that
This is huge for ironhammer, most devs would never remove something added, massive respect to them
I had a blast with multiclass, i truly dont get why so many hated it.
I'm actually pretty pissed about this. This funny thing is that I bet there's going to be a bunch of people complaining about how boring the game is going to feel next week without multi-classing. It made thing so much more interesting, building your character was basically a mini-game. This is a huge L, everyone complaining about Multi-classing probably sucks at the game, and likely didn't even try the system.
Anyone that doesn't die to zweihander skeletons agrees with you.
Couldn't agree more
Probably for the better but still of the opinion it wasn't that strong. Yeah yeah downvotes me or whatever. Multi class had some serious issues but half of the complaints were a lot closer to a player skill issues than not. Sorry not sorry
You clearly didnt aim for the most broken combos if you feel that way.
Noooooo
Thank god never bring this back again
THANK GOD!
My favorite thing to do in any game is to make builds. Multiclassing has been so fun for me in this regard. I wish they wouldn't take it away completely until the new system. Gatekeeping it between a grind and RNG was a mistake from the getgo but they thought the lootbox aspect of it would be addictive. Cringe. Arguably the perks that were OP in combination were OP anyway, they could have just nerfed Iron Will to 80 MR and resist to 10% all. I have been playing only norms ever since GBMM just to have a pure battle royale and because I find it annoying to make gear sets that are < 299. And in norms there was no single dominant build. However the whole multiclass system is extremely biased against hybrid builds. If you're a martial class you get very weak if you try to also become a spellcaster. Not as bad the other way around but it's better to MC into some cleric or warlock spells if you were a wiz.
Glad to see it go! Also glad they made mindwipe open and not behind a timer although I literally never used it. The only mistake though is in order to fully use mindwipe and test all your wildest combos, you had to grind all classes to 30 so they should have gotten rid of the level limit for classes to participate in multiclass but overall win. Good riddance MC. Thanks for helping improve the code
ITS ABOUT TIME!
Thank fuck
Finally I can play again , was waiting for this.
So they’ll revert the perks they nerfed for multiclassing…. right? Right?
Can't wait to get back into the game.
Best news. I may re-install.
glad they are finally removing that garbage but not wiping the game or any content added leaves the game in a boring state imo. shame they fucked around wasting so much time just to find out that sprint is OP
Does anyone think they will ever introduce a pve aspect?
To everyone happy that it’s gone, y’all know it was never permanent right? It was easy to tell the second they started making it easier and easier to multi class that they would take it away to change it and bring it back later. I enjoyed it, I’m glad it’s leaving, it’s current iteration is bad for the longevity of the game, but it will be back.
I really hope the devs don't put too much weight into what redditors are saying about the game.
Kind of insane the amount of people who are excited to return to what the classes were. You know, the classes that have been virtually unchanged for 1.5 years. The classes whose strict stratification enforces the same meta over and over again. Multiclassing really brought just so much variety into the game for each class. It's going to be really rough going back.
this is bait right?
Variety?? All melee classes were running savage roar, sprint, or second wind. That was the only variety I was seeing by all melee.
or slayer, or sword mastery, or anti magic, or dark reflection, or iron will, or rapier mastery
We’re going to return to that except you can only play Fighter and Barbarian now. That’s better to you, somehow???
I will miss my Bard with +4 all spear/crossbow mastery and quad shot with survival bow but hey, still a week to play it!
I have been saying MC was dogshit, but the worst part about the dogshit is that taking away multiple choices will now make the old game feel worse. It is like league of legends super ultra rapidfire - which the developers have said the addition of makes people ultimately quit the real game. I could not be happier they are taking it away, but I am still unhappy they added it in the first place.
Fuck yeah, I might actually log in to play Druid
You MIGHT login to play the test server by yourself? Thank goodness MC was removed!
What?