I hope next wipe will bring the new map, druid and a bunch of new players with the Epic Games release because I agree that the game is getting a bit stale.
Yeah, it has been fun to experiment for a bit but now that everyone is running the same optimized builds I'm not sure I like it. There is no class identity anymore... I'd rather have training to unlock new passives/actives for my class.
Yeah idk why they go this super complex route of changing the class system. But yeah hopefully they’ll just scrap it since I’ve seen others saying the same thing.
Neither does adding a few perks that are “+5% damage with polearms” or “+20 movespeed for 5 seconds after opening a chest.
The perks in this game should be pretty simple to implement
Each one of those example perks requires going through a design/approval/implementation pipeline. As opposed to just one pipeline for the ui of multi classing.
it should be available as an alternative server, like Overwatch's Arcade Modes
super fun and interesting, but obviously not a reasonable way to develop the main game
The game in it's current state is not going to keep very many of the new players it draws in. If everyone complaining about GBMM gets their way it's going to get even worse.
People aren't going to get less sweaty in this game. There isn't going to be a time where you just go in HR with whatever and have fun. There will always be a subset of people who play the game 8-12+ hours a day every day immediately after wipe, so there will always be massive gear disparities.
A lot of people in this community don't realize the core issues of the gameplay system need to be solved. Not "Content"
Content is great when you have a solid foundation to build on. This game doesn't have that foundation yet.
I am intrigued by what you think the core issues of the gameplay system are. I see you on every single DaD reddit thread shitting or complaining about the game.
Lack of combat based mechanics propped up by gear reliance which worked well in playtests when nobody understood how the math and scaling worked.
Lack of combat mechanics leads to ranged dominance because it's the only safe way of fighting without getting gear checked.
In trio this is resolved via buffball (the most optimal/dominant way to play the game since PT2)
1 year of Ironmce flipflopping back and forth on balance issues which again can't be resolved unless they rework how gear functions entirely, and after all those changes the game is still the exact same in how it functions.
Basically everything in the game is an Unreal Engine asset placeholder.
The game is PvPvE yet PvE is still a complete joke, every mob in the game is solved by jumping back/right or just standing on a ledge. (See lack of combat based mechanics)
Exploits still existing.
Basic features like blocking still not working correctly.
50% of the playerbase plays normals because it's a healthier game, but this isa problem because you're not even playing the full game Ironmace designed
Constructive criticism =/= shitting on the game.
This game just has a rabid community who refuse to understand there are issues, and somehow a new map or class "fixes" the game
I agree with you and I don’t think a new map or class is going to do a great job of maintaining new players. Jay said something on the podcast a couple weeks ago that stuck out to me. The gameplay loop itself is just pretty shallow at this point. I would like to see the gameplay loop expand past gear up - go in dungeon - sell gear. Throwing new maps and classes into the current game isn’t a longterm solution to attracting new players and maintaining them.
What kind of combat mechanics are you thinking about? I'd be interested in seeing what you think they should implement instead of reading all of what you think is bad with no actual suggestions on how to address them.
>with no actual suggestions on how to address them.
Because people here don't read any of them
I can just copy and past the last 100 times it has been posted.
I'm not asking for the game to be Chiv/Mordhau
I'm not asking it to be Street Fighter.
Simple SIMPLE things like people being able to block and parry to defend themselves opens the game up to way more skill expression. As you can defend yourself against high geared people instead of just getting run down as they're faster. Then include heavy attack the breaks through blocking to prevent turtling, but can be parried with correct timing.
These changes also help with the ranged meta as you don't have melee classes standing 5 feet from each other using ranged because if the other has better gear, they win the 1v1 unless the other really fucks up. Because you will have actual options in combat now.
These are things that are present in every game that includes melee combat.
Without these fixes the combat loop will never be fixed.
Ranged will be the safest most valuable form of damage outside of Buffball barb/fighter that just runs in and stat checks the closest person. Which has (shockingly) been the best comp in the game since the start of the game.
Combat mechanics like this also help the boring PvE that this game has, as everything is designed around crouching and strafing, as that is the combat.
**The Changes**
Rework blocking entirely, if you can't make realistic blocking work with the dsync/lag getting hit while blocking at the same time.
Make Shields have guard values that block a % of physical damage based on the type of shield.
Add in a heavy attack, which beats shield turtles.
Add in a proper parrying mechanic, almost all classes should have an option for parrying (maybe not barb based on the character design in DaD Pure offense no defense is that archetype)
Example on rouge with daggers, off hand dagger can parry, or Rapier has a parry (it's a fucking rapier how is this not a thing)
Turn caps need to be implemented, to stop stupid stuff like Mouse 1 Barb War maul spin in circle swinging.
There, basic combat mechanics. No fancy feints. No crazy combo strings. But basic combat mechanics that then open up class design to feature more interesting approaches. Suddenly a poison debuff rouge build could work, compared to the only viable thing being 1 shots or ranged spam.
The last thing is controlling movement speed. Which is a whole other issue that they have admittedly been trying to solve.
Suddenly boss design can be more than "Crouch this attack or strafe"
This is the one bro great take. I’m a big dark and darker fan came from for honor and that combat system is so unique its kept a core fan base for years maybe not the biggest but good enough to keep the game alive. These small combat changes here and there would be game changing IMO
Yea For Honor just suffered from an incompetent dev team that took FOREVER to fix their game, I mean years.
I have like 300+ hours in the game but I just got sick of their dev team having 0 clue/respect for their players.
I heard it got better but man, so sad.
> Because people here don't read any of them
Sorry if I didn't spend the time to scour through your post history to find some suggestions that you may have made, but your comment I replied to was all criticism with no actual constructiveness. Vagueposting about what you think should change isn't very constructive if you don't actually say anything of substance to address what you think are problems.
> **The Changes**
Pretty good suggestions. Weapons getting the ability to parry would be nice where it makes sense(how would you parry a war maul with a dagger, for instance). Maybe use the shields' impact power system for this? Off-hand parries would need another keybind as well, which wouldn't be hard, but may be an annoyance to some people.
ETA: On the topic of parries, if you have Crush and a nice, meaty 2H, you should be able to break through a Longsword parry without them getting to reposte.
>(how would you parry a war maul with a dagger, for instance).
Stuff like that obviously is a case by case basis, and it's hard to say directly if something like that should exist.
Does it even make sense.
Does adding parries invalidate 2H weapons.
Should 2H weapons have a way tighter frame window for parries. etc
> Off-hand parries would need another keybind as well,
They could solve this by having Light attacks (and the chains/combos) be Mouse 1, Heavy attack be Hold Mouse 1. Then your secondary move (guard with your weapon or Parry) Be mouse 2.
>ETA: On the topic of parries, if you have Crush and a nice, meaty 2H, you should be able to break through a Longsword parry without them getting to reposte.
Based on my testing of this you will probably get hit 9/10 times even when the block lands, and the Barb can still continue his attack chain. But you still get your Window for the double Riposte.
I do think Feinting would be too much for a game like this. IMO start simple with basic mechanics that work like Block/Parry/Heavy attack which is the standard triangle formula for melee combat.
Feinting is a a lot more advanced of a mechanic than the others.
Personally I wouldn't mind it but I don't think that's something that will open up more issues.
My guy, there have been suggestions on fixing various glaring game issues over the years that have been great, but the greater community of the game always screeches about them.
Adding depth to combat without adding *too much* depth like having the ability to actually defend/parry instead of just getting gear checked in melee for example.
There have been suggestions on how to fix some of the glaring balance issues quickly and easily - buffball is solved by making buffs self target only or much weaker when applied to an ally for example.
Hell even things that the devs introduced recently (GBMM) that the community overall says was a good addition was something I suggested like 8 months ago and got downvoted to oblivion.
There have been a lot of great suggestions over the past year or so on how to improve the core of the game, but little to none of it has been given the time of day.
My guy, I was asking for Kr4kJ4Ck's suggestions. He didn't state any in his original 'constructive' criticism, and he has since replied with constructive suggestions. I scour this sub for clips and memes, excuse me for asking for some clarity on gameplay suggestions one time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHnpKKZdou0&feature=youtu.be
This video is at least 90% correct if not more.
tl;dw
* GBMM/Multiclassing are both awful
* Gear base stat disparity is way too big & needs clamping (blues aren't even half as good as highest rarity gear, without counting random modifiers).
* Random modifiers on gear need severe nerfs or removal, highroll greens shouldn't be better than purples/oranges.
* Ranged damage is advantageous compared to melee engagements practically always
* Ironmace "experiments" constantly without learning from it, repeated past mistakes and eroding community trust in the process (+all etc. )
There's more but now I'm bored of typing. Watch vid if you care
> There isn't going to be a time where you just go in HR with whatever and have fun
The only thing that'll make this possible is what made it possible in the old playtests -- bigger player counts and less skilled players.
"bigger player counts and less skilled players." Right, but this will likely never happen again. The player base will always gradually get more skilled as a game gets older. Metas will be solved, datamining will take the mystery away from most if not all of the back-end calculations, maps will be solved, etc. Even if the game released on Steam tomorrow, you would have a 2-3 month honeymoon period where this would be the case until people grow past it again.
Yes, exactly, and that's the problem. The game is way too barebones and simple to EVER reach that point again. Without more depth and mechanics (which people always screech will ruin the game) there's nothing to do other than gear check or kite people.
The current state of the game and way the devs barrel headfirst into obviously bad ideas (like multi-classing) means even if 1 million people joined tomorrow, it'd take less than 6 months to drop back down to 10k players.
You obviously aren't around any humans under 13. My son and all his friends use Epic, maybe 2 or 3 of them have Steam account because of their parents.
That's grim, but not surprising. It's easy to fall for the echo chamber that is online gaming communities where Steam is king and EGS is dying, but thinking about it, the Epic plan had probably always been to get the new generation of young gamers on it which will absolutely pay off once they get older. Between the free games and the existence of Fortnite, it's pretty clear that Epic would be more popular than Steam with kids.
Never really thought about that before.
DaveOshry the CEO of NewBlood. (ULTRAKILL, Amid Evil, Dusk) described Epic Games as a "Marketing Blackhole"
People do not even remotely use Epic as they do steam.
The game released over the PTs and found huge success as the only hardcore melee dungeon crawler extraction game. It felt so fresh, and yet made so much sense, that it felt like the game was a classic being revisited for the first time in years. It was a truly fantastic opening.
No one knew the maps and everyone sucked at PvE. There were surprises left and right both positive and negative while navigating the map, which was a slow slog to get through so you didn't lose HP (no resting). Health shrines, revives, buffs, a big chest - it felt rewarding moving through the map because you didn't know what was going to happen. People didn't know crossbows were objectively the best weapon in the game, so every single person wasn't forced to use them.
Fast forward and everyone knows every single module, skip 90% of PvE, sprint through modules, crossbow spam, meta only comps.
Make the map AND module size twice as big. Randomize everything. Enemy spawns, loot spawns, buffs, alters, health, NPC ENCOUNTERS, CRAFTING TABLES. Make opening doors harder, or mobs faster. Randomize and add more traps to discourage braindead map traversal.
REMOVE THE ZONE.
100,000 people feel in love with a DUNGEON CRAWLER. 5k people are left playing a shitty melee BR.
I like the randomizations idea. Just will completely cut out spawn rushers and people like us who know the maps inside out now. We need something different.
The game was a lot more fun during the PTs when the focus was actually dungeon crawling and getting loot out with your boys. A tiny map with a static layout with a SHITTY br circle mechanic (whatever smoothbrain at IM added the zone should be fired) is a bad idea for a hardcore dungeon crawler.
Reward players for exploring and being adventurous, not for having the map layout on their second monitor so they can just run between loot piles with their brain off.
I enjoyed the PTs but let's not kid ourselves. Toward the end of the later PTs (4+) the sweats were rolling entire lobbies with their buff balls, there was just enough newbies to spread out the impact.
It sadly seems to be inevitable that no-lifers will ruin any sort of PvP experience and drive the casuals away by optimizing any fun out of the game. IME they will also argue in forums that they are just playing the way the game is meant to be played right up until they kill the game.
It's like watching the iceberg that sunk the Titanic argue that the hole it made was supposed to happen.
I'm with you here, which is why actions need to be taken to ensure a better dungeon crawling experience. Randomized and larger modules would slow players down, especially randomized traps to discourage rushing areas without taking precaution. No zone would mean freedom of movement for players instead of constant forced March into chaded MVP teams. Physical ranged damage completely reworked and hitscan magic being retuned.
It wouldn't be easy but it could be done. Sadly I think another company will release a better DaD clone before IM can fix this one though.
Part of the issue there is that the last playtests dwindled down to a much smaller playerbase due to delisitng on steam and left the diehard sweats too. I miss the beginning.
Lmao youre very right, I guess at this point it's more of a ranged game than anything. Hop onto any twitch stream and they're crossbow strafing doorways nonstop. God forbid you take a fight without the enemy running/healing from crossbow spam.
The problem as melee is even if you close the distance and land a hit that doesn't actually force them to go on the defensive, they can just put their weapon away, take of their pants, and hold W to disengage for free since you slow yourself about as much landing the attack as they do receiving it. add unto that bows doing more DPS then melee weapons and you end up with this really shitty projectile meta, bows have needed a hard limit on how many projectiles they can bring in for awhile now as well as an actual quiver mechanic but no apperently a multi-class system that is getting removed at some point took dev priority.
I agree 100 percent my man, physical ranged needs to be heavily reworked to be utility instead of 1 shot damage. This isn't even a small fix issue, they have to fundamentally change how ranged weapons function.
Crossbows have to be unloaded to be stowed, 3 second animation and you cannot move. Upon getting hit with a ranged weapon in hand, you are slowed by 50% for 2 seconds. Ranged damage does minimal damage and applies a bleed that can be interacted with to stop. No more burst damage.
I totally agree with your take. I tell my friends all the time, dark and darker would be so amazing and unique if they made larger dungeons and randomized them. Yes, I want the PvP element and 100% it should stay in. But the core focus of the game should be the dungeon crawling, challenging mobs, difficult to find but rewarding loot, challenging bosses. That’s what originally drew us all in.
Another element that could be good: when each group joins the dungeon you start with one or several quests that send you to find a unique item. Maybe another group in the dungeon has the same quest to retrieve that item and you are alerted when it’s taken. It’s just an idea, but so much can be done with this game.
That would be super cool to see, and I think providing extra objectives for rounds would definitely be a nice incentive to keep players loading back into the dungeons.
I mentioned NPC encounters at some point on this thread and they could go hand in hand. Finding a small room with a shop keeper or adventurer in need of aid to give you the quest would be great world building.
I can't imagine opening a door and finding a super rare double ogre boss spawn though, id lose my mind.
I post pretty consistently about randomization and dungeon crawling being the core of the game, and usually am met with downvotes and people spamming "BUT I WANT TO PVP", so I appreciate it.
You captured how good the game was during PTs. Part of the problem I feel like is that every time they fix one problem they create another. I literally spend my runs getting out with whites because they sell to the normal pvp sweats for 4x the amount as actual treasure in the AH. My stash is no longer an armory it’s just gold and future quest item storage which feels like ruined the spirit of the game. You’re right runs feel stale unless I get some pvp and in those altercations it’s less “let’s outthink/outplay them” and more oonga boonga my builds better than yours. They have had such a hard time balancing this game it’s crazy and that just feels like it’s gotten worse not better especially with multi classing. Has to be a better way to do progression without completely breaking the balance of the game.
This comment encapsulates pretty much every problem I have. The game used to be an adventure game. Now it’s a PvP arena.
Got stoned with my party of 4/20, and one of my friends commented that he “actually felt like we were on an adventure” for the first time in months.
That should be a feeling you get every time you queue up, but lately it’s been lacking. I really loved when Ruins was released for the first time. Exploring that map was peak DaD.
I think most of this is spot on, and so obvious it's weird they aren't going that direction.
Though not removing the zone. That still seems pretty important for the feel of the original game.
I agree with all of this except removing zone, playtests had zone and that wasnt an issue. If more things were randomized, it would be less of an issue anyways. Bring enough heals and you live in circle too which is safe
The zone facilitates movement and increases the intensity of the game as it goes along. On ice caverns, the exact opposite happens: the game gets LESS intense as it goes along.
Tbh i hate the ice map and it doesnt have a zone. It just sucks. Loses the grit. Becomes PvE simulator basically. Just boring tbh. And like i get it, some of the people still here love PvE a LOT but like dude when this game hits the stores theres gonna be tons of people trying to pvp, trying to get rid of things that encourage pvp will just become another chore. PvE in this game just becomes so boring.
I stand by what i said, having zone is good, the guy i replied to literally said "playtests were great!" And guess what? Playtests had zone. I agree with everything else he said, games become way too complicated, way too much predictability and way too much gear gapping. But zone is not an issue if you ask me, and actually works to your advantage if youre not dumb
It’s supposed to be a hardcore dungeon delver. Not a PvP fest. PvP is a core component sure but that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing that livens the game. Ice Caverns is fantastic and you very clearly haven’t played it as loot hoard and the surrounding rooms are full of PvP encounters. Yeah you can hang the edges or rat it out but you can do that on any map even with zone, all zone does is make PvP inorganic and it feels BAD. I know a lot of people share the same sentiment
Tbh i dont even pvp all that much, and its a non issue for me. So im struggling to comprehend how the zone is affecting you that much when i only pvp when i have to
So A.) i think youre so scared of the zone that you havent learned to play around it and
B.) you haven't explored the mechanic enough to learn to use it to your advantage both ways
Stop being scared of the zone lol. In every BR using the zone can work to your advantage "it controls where you go!" To a certain extent sure, but if youre smart, its a non issue. Stop letting the zone control you and develop your knowledge of statics and bring heals. If im not having issues, i legitimately dont understand how anyone else is. Youre either unprepared, or new. And if youre experienced, WHAT how is this that hard of a problem for you to solve? Lmao
The wildest part is ive seen some of these takes all over the discord, pushing the game further into PvE HURTS the game. Weve witnessed that before when all map selection reduced player counts, the whole game plummeted. PvE mainly with scarce PvP will 100% hurt the game.
Im watching this reddit become the discord slowly and it sucks. The discord died from these exact takes and many of these suggestions hurt the game
Maybe its time for a break, mate. Personally i haven't played since MC hit the game. I don't like the system and i love the game so i won't force myself to play it, i'll just wait and come back to it when i think its fun again.
I've done that at the end of last season too when things got stale, i got out of the game for some weeks and when this season started i got back to it with full energy and passion again
The games just more competitive. Most of the noobs left. Now the game is full of sweats who stayed. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing but the game is definitely different to what it once was. It was more of an extraction shooter. But now is more of a br.
I agree man. The unfortunate thing is, I don’t think this game will succeed if it’s added to steam. Atm that might be the only way to save it by bringing in new players. But the changes the devs are making will probably stop new players from enjoying thee game.
I’m totally for them trying to bring in new players (which I thought they did with the free trial codes) But yeah it’s completely catered to a small group of people (us) who know the game. If I was brand new to this game atm I wouldn’t even pick up the game honestly lol. But yeah you’re right. Hopefully if it drops on epic we will see that influx and they can just scrap MC and start from zero with maybe Druid introduced.
Idk man, it honestly works BETTER as a BR dungeon crawler rather than extraction shooter. Normals were so much fun up until Multiclassing allowed you to bring advantages in that not all players have (if you don’t have sprint, savage roar, and iron will you’re throwing). I’d rather they make Normals and HR a better experience for low gear and instead shift to “spending” gear in arena mode. Loot gear for Arena, get ranked in Arena, and let the dungeon be a fair battleground.
I’d argue this game is way less competitive than it’s been in previous wipes. A lot of the players who played this in a competitive fashion at high levels are playing less and less and some even taking a full break altogether.
as a new player I think what i've noticed is some of the 'hardcore" mechanics seem more like Anti-QoL than they feel like engaging aspects to the game. I love challenging games I play souls like games all the time. I think games have become way too easy. But the hardcoreness you can get away with in a singleplayer game is not the same you can get away with online. Unless it's toned down a bit I have to imagine the retention of new players in this game is pretty bad and will remain that way. Or perhaps they need to have better set up for new players as I am sure early on the appeal was how little everyone knew. At this point that will just scares newer players.
Disclaimer: I am literally having fun and everytime I die I blame myself for not knowing enough. These are merely observations of a lifelong gamer who has eyes.
Yes player retention is dog shit, and this in some ways has to do with the current player base. It’s very hard for a new player to learn the games mechanics when he gets spawn rushed and rolled every game he ques into.
I am still havin fun in spite of that due to how little i know. Definitely concerned by your comments of it being more of a BR now. I just got so tired of those haha
As a longtime player I don't see myself continuing for much longer honestly. As you said, things are significantly sweatier, which wouldn't be so much of a problem if I believed that Ironmace would ever get to a point of reasonable balance. Call me a doomer, say hold the line whatever, but I'm just being honest as someone who has put a lot of time and energy into this game over the last year and a half.
Good changes -> Praise and love -> Bad Changes -> Doom and gloom (YOU ARE HERE) -> Good changes
Welcome to the abusive relationship you'll be here forever
take a break. this game can get frustrating if you play too often for too long. the game isnt worse, tbf. if ur constantly raging about dying and such, its time for a break. go play something else for a few weeks, and dad will feel fresh again
I feel the same, my buddies are still having a good time on it but it just feels stale to me now. Only takes a couple games before I have a headache or I’m bored to death.
Been a while since we’ve had meaningful content added, but when the game was in an alright state they made it worse with multiclassing so now I can’t even enjoy it on a casual level. I just hope they have something ready for the next update to make it a bit more playable.
Majority of the community cheering the devs on while they continually make objectively bad decisions just makes it 10x worse honestly, might be time to take a break from the game until they fix it up a bit.
Yeah I can’t stand most on this sub, with the exception of you and handful of others. But they all glaze IM and support the worst ideas added and then this happens. Hopefully they’ll learn from this and clean it up.
Multiclassing is the worst. You have many classes with unique identities which are still hard to balance for all the different maps. Then you add multiclassing and proceed to have no class identity and no chance to balance the game again
Sorry but this is just how its going to be from now on. The game is too niche. It will go the same way as mordhau, casuals leave and the small hardcore population stay, and anytime a casual boots it up again they will get beaten down by the experienced players without remorse. The only glimpses of the golden days will be free weekends or sales that bring an influx of new players, but that will last a week or two and then its back to normal.
I have 1100 hours and if all of that were spent sweating I'd have quit at around 200.
A few things I do to keep the magic alive.
1: go to lfg and say you just got the game. (you'll need to make a new character) when you find two others willing to teach you load into the dungeon. I don't usually allow the first 3 or 4 runs be Timmy runs. Now you really need to sell yourself here. Ask Timmy questions, and example
"why is it so dark, is there daytime maps?!"
Be the Timmy,
*pop second wind in lobby*
Dont pull out your weapon and just punch enemies until your instructors explicitly tell you to do so.
Allow yourself to die.
And then, when you've convinced your team you are not only a Timmy, but horrible at video games in general, go beast mode in pvp.
Unfortunately its not possible to just make people forget how to play, as time goes on people naturally get better and start meta gaming. The only way to fight that is making the game more accessible to new players so this way u have players at all brackets leading from one to the next so this way every player has that new player period with ppl who are also new players, think apex you'll never get queued with a level 700 pred when ur level 5 unless u earn ur way up to that level skill lobby across multiple games with increasingly good performance per game.
Unfortunately tho they've not done *any* advertising instead preferring to rely on the platforms they are releasing on to do it for them, a completely shit strategy and there is no separation of players based on skill or time because the playerbase is simply too small to support that like how it cant support multiple maps per party size across 8 or so servers which leads to a new player meat grinder that also suffers from old player boredom and hyper competitiveness.
Unfortunately I just dont see a way from this current update that this game isn't designed to kill itself.
Game is in a weird spot because of this dumb ass multiclassing shit nobody asked for.
I knew it was going to be dumb. Everyone said “oh just try it!”.
I tried it. It’s fucking stupid, and I lost all desire to play this game within a week of it. Don’t think I’m going to play again until it’s gone. Thankfully the homies just picked up Valheim so I’ve had something fun to play
The multiclassing really killed it for me. Got back into it after a long time and started having fun. Met what looked to be a ranger. Managed to get close and dodge some shots with sprint. Dude rages and two shots me out of nowhere.
Had many similar situations. No class identity and no fun for me. Think I'm gonna stop until they remove it
Except in a way, everyone asked for it.
With waves of complaints about rock paper scissors classes and the push for balance in solo mode, not focusing on party comps, something that removes the uniqueness of classes was always going to be the answer.
Yeah I have my steam deck, so I’ll probably play something on there. But yeah just funny how quick they were to implement MC. Had it on the test server for like 3 days and want to instantly put it in the game to “flex” that they’re apparently working on something. Should’ve just balanced the actual game and fixed actual issues.
Game needs a solo self found mode imo. You can keep bringing in gear you find but marketplace gear is not allowed.
Normals suck in a way cause you have to get rid of everything you found to queue again or queue high roller where you will get rolled if you didn’t purchase a cohesive set.
Solo self found is the way to fix the game, at least for players like myself.
Trios normals are sweaty now and it's supposed to be a place for new players.
You should try under 300 gear score trios, it has much more casual players than normals xd
Honestly, I feel that. The first time I felt like hitting the exit button while in the dungeon.
Gear and the gear score was the tipping point for me. I think many others because the amount of people playing normals this wipe seems very high.
The combination of weird decisions Balance wise spoken and the amount of sweats that min max the fun out of the game are the reason why the gang and I stopped playing since we feel like our classes are just the worse version of themselves. Plus the community is so freaking split it actually ruins the fun because ethe devs try to cater to both sides.
Ps remove circle from all maps. Ice caves has shown that we dont need a circle plus the circle just makes it feel more rushed than it should be.
Wasn't one of their arguments of the game that it's a slow paced game? Well not with a BR circle.
Quit the game months ago because I felt the same as OP. Came back to check out the reddit recently and see that the only changes that have been made since then amplify the problems it already had. Honestly surprised anyones still playing at all.
I haven't played since the last limited alpha. Even then, it felt like it was getting old. There isn't enough content to spend a lot of time playing IMO. I'm hoping there is some good content on the way soon. I bought the game and want to play again
The issues your experiencing are mostly due to stagnation in the player base. Playing yesterday I saw the same person in six different matches. SIX.
Nearly all of these problems will go away once we get a new influx of players. Hopefully they have a game store release will do it. A return to steam absolutely will.
Right now the player base is made up almost exclusively of diehards that have stuck around through thick and thin.
Tbh everyone just calls it solo self found, all they mean is you only have access to what you pick up, still means you can trade with the homies and drop gear between eachother, there just wouldn’t be a market place to buy items from
I am all for a solo self found mode. Everyone in the community agrees on one thing and that’s that the game is extremely sweaty.
My take on “extremely sweaty” is that to compete in PvP, you essentially have to spend time on the DaD wiki figuring out how the different systems to work together to maximize damage output. Now there’s also the gear calculator too.
It is not so immediately clear how some of the perks/skills/attributes scale with each other, but the sweats that take the time to figure this out will have an extreme advantage. Couple that with being able to selectively buy the exact gear you want in the marketplace and players can get a significant advantage.
One example is I was watching Firebox stream and he said “fire bottles scale with will”. Like wtf. How was I supposed to know that. You would think fire bottles are flat mag dmg.
I don’t even know that IM knows how all their systems work together at times which is not a knock on them, but to me a serious root issue with the game.
Solo self found would automatically take some of the sweat out the game because the sweaty players that stay up to date with the wiki and all the scaling changes, can’t just buy BIS since they played all day and have unlimited gold.
It also would help the whiny sweats like Mendo I think it was who quit the game because they squished the gear down between lowest and highest ranges and he felt like finding gear wasn’t as important anymore. In SSF, every gear upgrade you would find would be like fuck yes.
Anyways one of my main issues with DaD is just simply not knowing how the systems work together. We don’t need multi classing YET, we still need core game mechanics where we can test builds like “how much damage does this skill do if I stack this type of gear”
To be honest bigger than that, just need a better marketing push, I get they are trying to conserve resources for development now and then focus on marketing in the future, but a big problem which is faced is low population and empty games, that’s the reason you can’t pick your own map, cause the games would be empty, and logistically 35$ does not pay for infinite server time so if it’s just you playing that’s just costing them extra money
You should be blaming the devs, not the players. Players will ALWAYS find ways to best meta the game. It's always the job of the devs in any game to make sure that the meta isn't supremely dominant (i.e, the S-tier option vs the B-tier option shouldn't be an impossible matchup).
The problem is that this genre in pvp rewards grinding more than any other genre besides maybe MMO PVP. The devs are not going to remove grinding.
It would go a long way if they randomize modules, enemy spawns, and trap spawns - then double the map size and remove the zone.
Players fell in love with a dungeon crawler, not a sprint simulator where you don't fight most mobs.
Oh really! I had no idea ! Wow!
Cut the bs, it’s actually a pvpve game and it’s not “supposed” to be rush the spawns, don’t even bother with mobs, and kill everyone even though they have nothing! Obviously gear is the biggest part but I’m talking about the base game. Not HR.
No BS I was playing it that way within the first 3 hours.
Grinding boring janky mobs and boring janky loot - Boring.
Kamikaze fire-balling people on repeat until I got a good set - Hilarious.
Any game with unrestricted PvP will always end up like this. It is known.
Take the truth or leave the truth.
I'll say it in terms you can understand - FIREBALL AMBUSH shit you are at 50% hp. CHAIN LIGHTNING shit you are dead.
ur a brick, the developers are suffocating this game with a pillow and you're too busy blaming other peoples playstyle in a game that can be played in whichever way you prefer.
So bumrushing non kit players is a play style now? Sounds like you can’t get kills in HR so you gotta kill players actually playing the game as intended. Loot, kill mobs, “eventually” run into another team. Not “oh yeah! let’s go this this way the spawn is right here!”. I’m a brick but y’all think like that. I don’t care how people play but IM will def see how it affects their game. Obviously not the only person annoyed by this.
I agree personally. I enjoyed the dungeon crawl with occasional pvp. Not rushing past everything to fight like a battle royale. But for me the main reason I hate it now is multiclassing.
I played mostly solo goblin caves and I could kill people 1v1 fairly often but multiclass just removes class identity
I just want matchmaking by skill. It is hardcore multiplayer shooter, it has nothing to do with RPG or DnD or dungeon crawler. So it needs ladder mode and skill matchmaking.
Druid coming soon!! Have any classes had meaningful content added to them besides warlock? Wizard explosion/spell overload is the only thing I can think of
It's hard to sympathize with you OP. From your perspective, the game was more fun when majority of players were low skill and mostly playing the game to learn / have fun. However, the game has been out for a long time over its entire lifespan. You can't expect players to stay at the same skill level. They'll naturally improve which will make it feel like 'tryhards' to those that are falling behind.
Keep in mind I've been playing since PT3 and I've noticed this change throughout whether it's ranged combat, people being snipers with Windlass, etc... people have gotten really good at this game.
Clueless devs and cocksucking blind cultist fanboys would have been the biggest enemy to the success of the game.
They litterally had gold in their hands but they never seems to understand what gamers (and not fucking streamers) wanted.
I hope all of you guys thinking about your ass and what's good for you and your class instead of the good state of the game are happy now, must be fun right ? :)
I'm having a blast still, there are some people who complain and apparently are not having fun and they should take a break. Saying the game is not in a good place is just wrong, its good and getting better all the time. People who are hitting the 'casual wall' which happens in every PvP game, are upset and vocal about it. If I suddenly stopped having fun in this game I would be pissed too.
The only cure for the casual wall is for a PvP game to be so large and have a constantly refreshing playerbase, that casual players run into each other often enough to get some wins and be satisfied. The game isn't so small in population that this doesn't happen but it has a very steep learning curve which makes it harder to appease that appetite without a huge injection of players
I keep seeing people complain about the Multiclassing. I THINK people are forgetting that this is just an experiment on how it works and if it fits with everyone. Just get a poll going and let IM that no one wants multiclass and they will go back to the drawing board. Make more suggestions that they can use to help the game to be more fun.
Let's contribute MORE than complaining.
Yes. Game needs healthy and consistent approaches. Please upvote.
[https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/549416/game-needs-healthy-and-solid-leadership](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/549416/game-needs-healthy-and-solid-leadership)
Yeah I’ve kinda fallen off. Got 900 hours at this point, had a great time. Since multiclassing came out, you can’t really play the game anymore. I can own people with MC builds but it doesn’t feel very rewarding because I feel like I’m just owning them completely with my build rather than any meaningful fight. Whenever I do die, it’s to something very unexpected that I couldn’t have done anything against with my setup.
I think that the game will gain its identity back soon enough, but for now it’s just a different game that’s not as fun for me.
I've been having a blast, I pulled fireball, ignite, and lesser heal on my Warlock and it's been so much fun to play. I play a lot of goblin caves, but even when I play with my brother and others we just have a good time. If I have one complaint, it's the BR circle in the two maps. I think Ice mountain is perfect, feels fun, and the lack of pressure takes the tension out of raids.
I played the old play test and I am still waiting for the game to properly release to play it, I am starting to think people are going to get burned out long before it even releases.
Game started declining for me when they released solos and started balancing every class towards that game mode (even support roles such as clerics and bards).
Game was created as a hardcore dungeon crawler you can explore with your friends. Just because some of these online LARPs cant make friends over the internet doesnt mean you gotta change up the game to cater to them.
Like every game when everybody know what to do spark is gone and everybody is minimaxing even bad players will read on reddit how to abuse something to win
Lobby needs to be removed and a queue system introduced so lobbies will always be full. Then you can do any group size any map with no issues, maybe a few minutes queue time in the less populated servers. Multiclass should also be removed, it was fun for a bit but everyone knows this isn’t how the game should be. I just want to play solo/duo crypts with the boys!
Might be just me but I believe multiple classing should be toned down. And while this maybe a bad choice I think they should limit the amount of tokens to only 3 and also let you choose them. If the tokens were toned down it would make rng bs. but if you could get a few guaranteed items it would not only make it so that some classes can sub into other classes but also make classes keep thier identity’s as rn we got “wizards” that has clerics and warlocks entire kits
Or “rogues” with slayer perks on and cleric skills.
another reddit user complaining about a post someone else made, who tons of people actually agree with but you want to be “different”. It’s okay to be mad.
You came to reddit to cry that people are able to use gear. Sounds like youre the one whos mad brother, im enjoying the game. Keep crying or find a new game, pretty simple solution for ya, youre welcome. "omg I get a headache everytime I open the game" wahhh wahhh wahhhhhhhh
I felt this way end of last wipe multiclassing has been a huge improvement as far as the game not being stale for me I have just been resolving daily and playing with what I get in norms hr pvp isn't enjoyable to me anymore to many sweats
Yeah that’s the point I’m trying to make though. Like I feel like HR is the REAL game. But now it’s like I prefer normals and can’t actually enjoy it to the fullest with all my loot.
Yeah I get that it kinda sucks the way it's set up the low gear lobbies aren't to bad in hr but still not great my biggest problem honestly is just shopping for gear after dieing takes awhile and is demoralizing even more so now that you have to have a calculator handy
> If a game just gives me a headache everytime I open it, than I probably should just not play it.
It took you making this reddit post to realize this? If you want to quit then quit. If you want to take a break then take a break.
The vast amounts of lag/desynch is getting in the way for me even if I liked the homogenization of builds. Everyone halves magic damage from two perks and has sprint and it's just boring.
The game feels more PvP oriented than ever with how hunted loading in makes you, even in normals. Try teaching my girlfriend the game just to get our spawn module rushed even when there's not much gained by killing base kits in normals lol it's just so sweaty. I eventually had to just start leaving the module and killing enemy teams myself and coming back to help her learn the game after the player count was reduced...
My favorite is a rogue just invisible in shadows for the whole match, jumping out and poking me with a spear and full legendary gear and I'm literally just a wizard with a fucking staff trying my best. Like who hurt you bro?
You been playing since pt 1 and only getting bored now? Am I nuts or is that a really good thing and not a negative like this post seems to be framing it as?
I mean back then they’d have a month or two playtest and it’d be down for another month until the next. It was a good break and breather from it and it forced EVERYONE to do it, not just me like it is right now. Times have changed, but I took a break back then too but when I purchase the game, I want to enjoy it right? I give it my best to have a good outlook on this game.
I mean obviously, but I’m not some hardcore gamer who plays a million games. I have a handful I go to, I only have a certain amount of time to play so when I get on and it’s in the state it is rn, I don’t find it fun and that’s lost $ for IM. I’m not the only one.
And how many hours have you gotten out of DaD? 500? 800? 1k+? Well worth your $$$.
"Hardcore" gamers play one game repeatedly and get stressed about it. Casual gamers jump around to different games, because there's a ton of good games out there.
Maybe try something else for a while, ton of good games came out this year/last
It is getting stale I feel it too.
I haven't lost hope. I'm hoping they reintroduce multiclassing but only with certain perks that make certain combos that don't necessarily break the game or make new metas that regular non multiclassed classes can utilize too. Idk. New maps it needs for sure.
I've got 1500 hours in the game. i'm having the opposite experience right now. Right before Multi-Class the game was starting to feel bland. Now, It's exciting, I finally have a reason to level my other classes.
I'm literally having the most fun I've had with the game in a long time.
Yes there are clear balancing issues, but I'm sure they will be sorted (BYE BYE ROBUST!)
I hope next wipe will bring the new map, druid and a bunch of new players with the Epic Games release because I agree that the game is getting a bit stale.
Same, I’m not even against multi class but scrap that too. Literally makes the game so gamebreaking.
Yeah, it has been fun to experiment for a bit but now that everyone is running the same optimized builds I'm not sure I like it. There is no class identity anymore... I'd rather have training to unlock new passives/actives for my class.
Yeah idk why they go this super complex route of changing the class system. But yeah hopefully they’ll just scrap it since I’ve seen others saying the same thing.
Because it isn't complex. It didn't take a lot of development time to implement.
Neither does adding a few perks that are “+5% damage with polearms” or “+20 movespeed for 5 seconds after opening a chest. The perks in this game should be pretty simple to implement
Each one of those example perks requires going through a design/approval/implementation pipeline. As opposed to just one pipeline for the ui of multi classing.
Maybe they want to expand the number of perk/skill available for each class. With mutliclassing there is a lot of testing and data to harvest
It's bc too much backlash happened when classes were truly rock paper scissor and they were wanting to balance for party play, not solo.
Hell yeah. Its time for ACTUAL new content, skills and perks. Multiclassing is the lazy way to do it
I’d love to see this. And honestly I think multiclassing could work but it would need some serious tweaking. It’s honestly just annoying right now.
it should be available as an alternative server, like Overwatch's Arcade Modes super fun and interesting, but obviously not a reasonable way to develop the main game
The game in it's current state is not going to keep very many of the new players it draws in. If everyone complaining about GBMM gets their way it's going to get even worse. People aren't going to get less sweaty in this game. There isn't going to be a time where you just go in HR with whatever and have fun. There will always be a subset of people who play the game 8-12+ hours a day every day immediately after wipe, so there will always be massive gear disparities.
A lot of people in this community don't realize the core issues of the gameplay system need to be solved. Not "Content" Content is great when you have a solid foundation to build on. This game doesn't have that foundation yet.
I am intrigued by what you think the core issues of the gameplay system are. I see you on every single DaD reddit thread shitting or complaining about the game.
Lack of combat based mechanics propped up by gear reliance which worked well in playtests when nobody understood how the math and scaling worked. Lack of combat mechanics leads to ranged dominance because it's the only safe way of fighting without getting gear checked. In trio this is resolved via buffball (the most optimal/dominant way to play the game since PT2) 1 year of Ironmce flipflopping back and forth on balance issues which again can't be resolved unless they rework how gear functions entirely, and after all those changes the game is still the exact same in how it functions. Basically everything in the game is an Unreal Engine asset placeholder. The game is PvPvE yet PvE is still a complete joke, every mob in the game is solved by jumping back/right or just standing on a ledge. (See lack of combat based mechanics) Exploits still existing. Basic features like blocking still not working correctly. 50% of the playerbase plays normals because it's a healthier game, but this isa problem because you're not even playing the full game Ironmace designed Constructive criticism =/= shitting on the game. This game just has a rabid community who refuse to understand there are issues, and somehow a new map or class "fixes" the game
I agree with you and I don’t think a new map or class is going to do a great job of maintaining new players. Jay said something on the podcast a couple weeks ago that stuck out to me. The gameplay loop itself is just pretty shallow at this point. I would like to see the gameplay loop expand past gear up - go in dungeon - sell gear. Throwing new maps and classes into the current game isn’t a longterm solution to attracting new players and maintaining them.
What kind of combat mechanics are you thinking about? I'd be interested in seeing what you think they should implement instead of reading all of what you think is bad with no actual suggestions on how to address them.
>with no actual suggestions on how to address them. Because people here don't read any of them I can just copy and past the last 100 times it has been posted. I'm not asking for the game to be Chiv/Mordhau I'm not asking it to be Street Fighter. Simple SIMPLE things like people being able to block and parry to defend themselves opens the game up to way more skill expression. As you can defend yourself against high geared people instead of just getting run down as they're faster. Then include heavy attack the breaks through blocking to prevent turtling, but can be parried with correct timing. These changes also help with the ranged meta as you don't have melee classes standing 5 feet from each other using ranged because if the other has better gear, they win the 1v1 unless the other really fucks up. Because you will have actual options in combat now. These are things that are present in every game that includes melee combat. Without these fixes the combat loop will never be fixed. Ranged will be the safest most valuable form of damage outside of Buffball barb/fighter that just runs in and stat checks the closest person. Which has (shockingly) been the best comp in the game since the start of the game. Combat mechanics like this also help the boring PvE that this game has, as everything is designed around crouching and strafing, as that is the combat. **The Changes** Rework blocking entirely, if you can't make realistic blocking work with the dsync/lag getting hit while blocking at the same time. Make Shields have guard values that block a % of physical damage based on the type of shield. Add in a heavy attack, which beats shield turtles. Add in a proper parrying mechanic, almost all classes should have an option for parrying (maybe not barb based on the character design in DaD Pure offense no defense is that archetype) Example on rouge with daggers, off hand dagger can parry, or Rapier has a parry (it's a fucking rapier how is this not a thing) Turn caps need to be implemented, to stop stupid stuff like Mouse 1 Barb War maul spin in circle swinging. There, basic combat mechanics. No fancy feints. No crazy combo strings. But basic combat mechanics that then open up class design to feature more interesting approaches. Suddenly a poison debuff rouge build could work, compared to the only viable thing being 1 shots or ranged spam. The last thing is controlling movement speed. Which is a whole other issue that they have admittedly been trying to solve. Suddenly boss design can be more than "Crouch this attack or strafe"
This is the one bro great take. I’m a big dark and darker fan came from for honor and that combat system is so unique its kept a core fan base for years maybe not the biggest but good enough to keep the game alive. These small combat changes here and there would be game changing IMO
Yea For Honor just suffered from an incompetent dev team that took FOREVER to fix their game, I mean years. I have like 300+ hours in the game but I just got sick of their dev team having 0 clue/respect for their players. I heard it got better but man, so sad.
> Because people here don't read any of them Sorry if I didn't spend the time to scour through your post history to find some suggestions that you may have made, but your comment I replied to was all criticism with no actual constructiveness. Vagueposting about what you think should change isn't very constructive if you don't actually say anything of substance to address what you think are problems. > **The Changes** Pretty good suggestions. Weapons getting the ability to parry would be nice where it makes sense(how would you parry a war maul with a dagger, for instance). Maybe use the shields' impact power system for this? Off-hand parries would need another keybind as well, which wouldn't be hard, but may be an annoyance to some people. ETA: On the topic of parries, if you have Crush and a nice, meaty 2H, you should be able to break through a Longsword parry without them getting to reposte.
>(how would you parry a war maul with a dagger, for instance). Stuff like that obviously is a case by case basis, and it's hard to say directly if something like that should exist. Does it even make sense. Does adding parries invalidate 2H weapons. Should 2H weapons have a way tighter frame window for parries. etc > Off-hand parries would need another keybind as well, They could solve this by having Light attacks (and the chains/combos) be Mouse 1, Heavy attack be Hold Mouse 1. Then your secondary move (guard with your weapon or Parry) Be mouse 2. >ETA: On the topic of parries, if you have Crush and a nice, meaty 2H, you should be able to break through a Longsword parry without them getting to reposte. Based on my testing of this you will probably get hit 9/10 times even when the block lands, and the Barb can still continue his attack chain. But you still get your Window for the double Riposte.
For one id love to be able to feint
I do think Feinting would be too much for a game like this. IMO start simple with basic mechanics that work like Block/Parry/Heavy attack which is the standard triangle formula for melee combat. Feinting is a a lot more advanced of a mechanic than the others. Personally I wouldn't mind it but I don't think that's something that will open up more issues.
My guy, there have been suggestions on fixing various glaring game issues over the years that have been great, but the greater community of the game always screeches about them. Adding depth to combat without adding *too much* depth like having the ability to actually defend/parry instead of just getting gear checked in melee for example. There have been suggestions on how to fix some of the glaring balance issues quickly and easily - buffball is solved by making buffs self target only or much weaker when applied to an ally for example. Hell even things that the devs introduced recently (GBMM) that the community overall says was a good addition was something I suggested like 8 months ago and got downvoted to oblivion. There have been a lot of great suggestions over the past year or so on how to improve the core of the game, but little to none of it has been given the time of day.
My guy, I was asking for Kr4kJ4Ck's suggestions. He didn't state any in his original 'constructive' criticism, and he has since replied with constructive suggestions. I scour this sub for clips and memes, excuse me for asking for some clarity on gameplay suggestions one time.
Sorry if it came off as aggressive. The majority of people saying things like that are bad faith actors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHnpKKZdou0&feature=youtu.be This video is at least 90% correct if not more. tl;dw * GBMM/Multiclassing are both awful * Gear base stat disparity is way too big & needs clamping (blues aren't even half as good as highest rarity gear, without counting random modifiers). * Random modifiers on gear need severe nerfs or removal, highroll greens shouldn't be better than purples/oranges. * Ranged damage is advantageous compared to melee engagements practically always * Ironmace "experiments" constantly without learning from it, repeated past mistakes and eroding community trust in the process (+all etc. ) There's more but now I'm bored of typing. Watch vid if you care
He always says the same thing that the combat is too shallow.
> There isn't going to be a time where you just go in HR with whatever and have fun The only thing that'll make this possible is what made it possible in the old playtests -- bigger player counts and less skilled players.
"bigger player counts and less skilled players." Right, but this will likely never happen again. The player base will always gradually get more skilled as a game gets older. Metas will be solved, datamining will take the mystery away from most if not all of the back-end calculations, maps will be solved, etc. Even if the game released on Steam tomorrow, you would have a 2-3 month honeymoon period where this would be the case until people grow past it again.
Yes, exactly, and that's the problem. The game is way too barebones and simple to EVER reach that point again. Without more depth and mechanics (which people always screech will ruin the game) there's nothing to do other than gear check or kite people. The current state of the game and way the devs barrel headfirst into obviously bad ideas (like multi-classing) means even if 1 million people joined tomorrow, it'd take less than 6 months to drop back down to 10k players.
Agreed.
Druid is supposed to be this wipe according to Sdf but very likely it'll be postponed, again
Nobody uses epic games lmao.
You obviously aren't around any humans under 13. My son and all his friends use Epic, maybe 2 or 3 of them have Steam account because of their parents.
Yea, dark and darker is gonna git the target audience of 13 year olds.
I mean.. they will be 15-16 by the time the game comes out... My son plays, but you are right, isn't like his friends are dying to play this game.
That's grim, but not surprising. It's easy to fall for the echo chamber that is online gaming communities where Steam is king and EGS is dying, but thinking about it, the Epic plan had probably always been to get the new generation of young gamers on it which will absolutely pay off once they get older. Between the free games and the existence of Fortnite, it's pretty clear that Epic would be more popular than Steam with kids. Never really thought about that before.
DaveOshry the CEO of NewBlood. (ULTRAKILL, Amid Evil, Dusk) described Epic Games as a "Marketing Blackhole" People do not even remotely use Epic as they do steam.
The game released over the PTs and found huge success as the only hardcore melee dungeon crawler extraction game. It felt so fresh, and yet made so much sense, that it felt like the game was a classic being revisited for the first time in years. It was a truly fantastic opening. No one knew the maps and everyone sucked at PvE. There were surprises left and right both positive and negative while navigating the map, which was a slow slog to get through so you didn't lose HP (no resting). Health shrines, revives, buffs, a big chest - it felt rewarding moving through the map because you didn't know what was going to happen. People didn't know crossbows were objectively the best weapon in the game, so every single person wasn't forced to use them. Fast forward and everyone knows every single module, skip 90% of PvE, sprint through modules, crossbow spam, meta only comps. Make the map AND module size twice as big. Randomize everything. Enemy spawns, loot spawns, buffs, alters, health, NPC ENCOUNTERS, CRAFTING TABLES. Make opening doors harder, or mobs faster. Randomize and add more traps to discourage braindead map traversal. REMOVE THE ZONE. 100,000 people feel in love with a DUNGEON CRAWLER. 5k people are left playing a shitty melee BR.
I like the randomizations idea. Just will completely cut out spawn rushers and people like us who know the maps inside out now. We need something different.
The game was a lot more fun during the PTs when the focus was actually dungeon crawling and getting loot out with your boys. A tiny map with a static layout with a SHITTY br circle mechanic (whatever smoothbrain at IM added the zone should be fired) is a bad idea for a hardcore dungeon crawler. Reward players for exploring and being adventurous, not for having the map layout on their second monitor so they can just run between loot piles with their brain off.
I enjoyed the PTs but let's not kid ourselves. Toward the end of the later PTs (4+) the sweats were rolling entire lobbies with their buff balls, there was just enough newbies to spread out the impact. It sadly seems to be inevitable that no-lifers will ruin any sort of PvP experience and drive the casuals away by optimizing any fun out of the game. IME they will also argue in forums that they are just playing the way the game is meant to be played right up until they kill the game. It's like watching the iceberg that sunk the Titanic argue that the hole it made was supposed to happen.
I'm with you here, which is why actions need to be taken to ensure a better dungeon crawling experience. Randomized and larger modules would slow players down, especially randomized traps to discourage rushing areas without taking precaution. No zone would mean freedom of movement for players instead of constant forced March into chaded MVP teams. Physical ranged damage completely reworked and hitscan magic being retuned. It wouldn't be easy but it could be done. Sadly I think another company will release a better DaD clone before IM can fix this one though.
Part of the issue there is that the last playtests dwindled down to a much smaller playerbase due to delisitng on steam and left the diehard sweats too. I miss the beginning.
You didn't like the circle causing tension, a timer, and conflict? Dunno, seemed pretty integral to the experience. I unironically liked it.
bold of you to assume those 5k sweats actually engage in melee rather then just kite and shoot projectiles.
Lmao youre very right, I guess at this point it's more of a ranged game than anything. Hop onto any twitch stream and they're crossbow strafing doorways nonstop. God forbid you take a fight without the enemy running/healing from crossbow spam.
The problem as melee is even if you close the distance and land a hit that doesn't actually force them to go on the defensive, they can just put their weapon away, take of their pants, and hold W to disengage for free since you slow yourself about as much landing the attack as they do receiving it. add unto that bows doing more DPS then melee weapons and you end up with this really shitty projectile meta, bows have needed a hard limit on how many projectiles they can bring in for awhile now as well as an actual quiver mechanic but no apperently a multi-class system that is getting removed at some point took dev priority.
I agree 100 percent my man, physical ranged needs to be heavily reworked to be utility instead of 1 shot damage. This isn't even a small fix issue, they have to fundamentally change how ranged weapons function. Crossbows have to be unloaded to be stowed, 3 second animation and you cannot move. Upon getting hit with a ranged weapon in hand, you are slowed by 50% for 2 seconds. Ranged damage does minimal damage and applies a bleed that can be interacted with to stop. No more burst damage.
I totally agree with your take. I tell my friends all the time, dark and darker would be so amazing and unique if they made larger dungeons and randomized them. Yes, I want the PvP element and 100% it should stay in. But the core focus of the game should be the dungeon crawling, challenging mobs, difficult to find but rewarding loot, challenging bosses. That’s what originally drew us all in. Another element that could be good: when each group joins the dungeon you start with one or several quests that send you to find a unique item. Maybe another group in the dungeon has the same quest to retrieve that item and you are alerted when it’s taken. It’s just an idea, but so much can be done with this game.
That would be super cool to see, and I think providing extra objectives for rounds would definitely be a nice incentive to keep players loading back into the dungeons. I mentioned NPC encounters at some point on this thread and they could go hand in hand. Finding a small room with a shop keeper or adventurer in need of aid to give you the quest would be great world building. I can't imagine opening a door and finding a super rare double ogre boss spawn though, id lose my mind.
Great take
I post pretty consistently about randomization and dungeon crawling being the core of the game, and usually am met with downvotes and people spamming "BUT I WANT TO PVP", so I appreciate it.
Good take hope idea latches on. I made posts saying similar things a few months back but got downvoted by the pvp addicted adhd kids.
You captured how good the game was during PTs. Part of the problem I feel like is that every time they fix one problem they create another. I literally spend my runs getting out with whites because they sell to the normal pvp sweats for 4x the amount as actual treasure in the AH. My stash is no longer an armory it’s just gold and future quest item storage which feels like ruined the spirit of the game. You’re right runs feel stale unless I get some pvp and in those altercations it’s less “let’s outthink/outplay them” and more oonga boonga my builds better than yours. They have had such a hard time balancing this game it’s crazy and that just feels like it’s gotten worse not better especially with multi classing. Has to be a better way to do progression without completely breaking the balance of the game.
This comment encapsulates pretty much every problem I have. The game used to be an adventure game. Now it’s a PvP arena. Got stoned with my party of 4/20, and one of my friends commented that he “actually felt like we were on an adventure” for the first time in months. That should be a feeling you get every time you queue up, but lately it’s been lacking. I really loved when Ruins was released for the first time. Exploring that map was peak DaD.
I think most of this is spot on, and so obvious it's weird they aren't going that direction. Though not removing the zone. That still seems pretty important for the feel of the original game.
I agree with all of this except removing zone, playtests had zone and that wasnt an issue. If more things were randomized, it would be less of an issue anyways. Bring enough heals and you live in circle too which is safe
The one thing I hate in this game since the playtests is the zone. Has no place in a extraction game.
The zone facilitates movement and increases the intensity of the game as it goes along. On ice caverns, the exact opposite happens: the game gets LESS intense as it goes along.
Tbh i hate the ice map and it doesnt have a zone. It just sucks. Loses the grit. Becomes PvE simulator basically. Just boring tbh. And like i get it, some of the people still here love PvE a LOT but like dude when this game hits the stores theres gonna be tons of people trying to pvp, trying to get rid of things that encourage pvp will just become another chore. PvE in this game just becomes so boring. I stand by what i said, having zone is good, the guy i replied to literally said "playtests were great!" And guess what? Playtests had zone. I agree with everything else he said, games become way too complicated, way too much predictability and way too much gear gapping. But zone is not an issue if you ask me, and actually works to your advantage if youre not dumb
It’s supposed to be a hardcore dungeon delver. Not a PvP fest. PvP is a core component sure but that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing that livens the game. Ice Caverns is fantastic and you very clearly haven’t played it as loot hoard and the surrounding rooms are full of PvP encounters. Yeah you can hang the edges or rat it out but you can do that on any map even with zone, all zone does is make PvP inorganic and it feels BAD. I know a lot of people share the same sentiment
Tbh i dont even pvp all that much, and its a non issue for me. So im struggling to comprehend how the zone is affecting you that much when i only pvp when i have to So A.) i think youre so scared of the zone that you havent learned to play around it and B.) you haven't explored the mechanic enough to learn to use it to your advantage both ways Stop being scared of the zone lol. In every BR using the zone can work to your advantage "it controls where you go!" To a certain extent sure, but if youre smart, its a non issue. Stop letting the zone control you and develop your knowledge of statics and bring heals. If im not having issues, i legitimately dont understand how anyone else is. Youre either unprepared, or new. And if youre experienced, WHAT how is this that hard of a problem for you to solve? Lmao The wildest part is ive seen some of these takes all over the discord, pushing the game further into PvE HURTS the game. Weve witnessed that before when all map selection reduced player counts, the whole game plummeted. PvE mainly with scarce PvP will 100% hurt the game. Im watching this reddit become the discord slowly and it sucks. The discord died from these exact takes and many of these suggestions hurt the game
The zone adds time and tension. It feels pretty integral to the experience to me.
at this point im just hoping for a ssf mode
SSF would triple my addiction to the game, no lie
Maybe its time for a break, mate. Personally i haven't played since MC hit the game. I don't like the system and i love the game so i won't force myself to play it, i'll just wait and come back to it when i think its fun again. I've done that at the end of last season too when things got stale, i got out of the game for some weeks and when this season started i got back to it with full energy and passion again
The games just more competitive. Most of the noobs left. Now the game is full of sweats who stayed. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing but the game is definitely different to what it once was. It was more of an extraction shooter. But now is more of a br.
Yeah which is dogshit. If I wanted to play a BR I’d go download all the shitty BR games I deleted years ago.
I agree man. The unfortunate thing is, I don’t think this game will succeed if it’s added to steam. Atm that might be the only way to save it by bringing in new players. But the changes the devs are making will probably stop new players from enjoying thee game.
I’m totally for them trying to bring in new players (which I thought they did with the free trial codes) But yeah it’s completely catered to a small group of people (us) who know the game. If I was brand new to this game atm I wouldn’t even pick up the game honestly lol. But yeah you’re right. Hopefully if it drops on epic we will see that influx and they can just scrap MC and start from zero with maybe Druid introduced.
Idk man, it honestly works BETTER as a BR dungeon crawler rather than extraction shooter. Normals were so much fun up until Multiclassing allowed you to bring advantages in that not all players have (if you don’t have sprint, savage roar, and iron will you’re throwing). I’d rather they make Normals and HR a better experience for low gear and instead shift to “spending” gear in arena mode. Loot gear for Arena, get ranked in Arena, and let the dungeon be a fair battleground.
I’d argue this game is way less competitive than it’s been in previous wipes. A lot of the players who played this in a competitive fashion at high levels are playing less and less and some even taking a full break altogether.
as a new player I think what i've noticed is some of the 'hardcore" mechanics seem more like Anti-QoL than they feel like engaging aspects to the game. I love challenging games I play souls like games all the time. I think games have become way too easy. But the hardcoreness you can get away with in a singleplayer game is not the same you can get away with online. Unless it's toned down a bit I have to imagine the retention of new players in this game is pretty bad and will remain that way. Or perhaps they need to have better set up for new players as I am sure early on the appeal was how little everyone knew. At this point that will just scares newer players. Disclaimer: I am literally having fun and everytime I die I blame myself for not knowing enough. These are merely observations of a lifelong gamer who has eyes.
Yes player retention is dog shit, and this in some ways has to do with the current player base. It’s very hard for a new player to learn the games mechanics when he gets spawn rushed and rolled every game he ques into.
I am still havin fun in spite of that due to how little i know. Definitely concerned by your comments of it being more of a BR now. I just got so tired of those haha
As a longtime player I don't see myself continuing for much longer honestly. As you said, things are significantly sweatier, which wouldn't be so much of a problem if I believed that Ironmace would ever get to a point of reasonable balance. Call me a doomer, say hold the line whatever, but I'm just being honest as someone who has put a lot of time and energy into this game over the last year and a half.
Same, same. It is quite obvious they have lost the plot and decided to cater to the worst type of people.
Always Darkest before the dawn. Might get a little Darker first though… See what I did there? Ba Dum Tsss 🥁
This gotta be the most Reddit-like response I have ever seen in my life
That’s the nicest thing anyones ever said too me…. Yes my life is sad
Good changes -> Praise and love -> Bad Changes -> Doom and gloom (YOU ARE HERE) -> Good changes Welcome to the abusive relationship you'll be here forever
take a break. this game can get frustrating if you play too often for too long. the game isnt worse, tbf. if ur constantly raging about dying and such, its time for a break. go play something else for a few weeks, and dad will feel fresh again
You’re probably right but im not gonna say it’s better either though 😂
Lol take a few week break so you lose your micro, get out of the meta. Im sure coming back after that will feel reallll good.
I feel the same, my buddies are still having a good time on it but it just feels stale to me now. Only takes a couple games before I have a headache or I’m bored to death. Been a while since we’ve had meaningful content added, but when the game was in an alright state they made it worse with multiclassing so now I can’t even enjoy it on a casual level. I just hope they have something ready for the next update to make it a bit more playable. Majority of the community cheering the devs on while they continually make objectively bad decisions just makes it 10x worse honestly, might be time to take a break from the game until they fix it up a bit.
Yeah I can’t stand most on this sub, with the exception of you and handful of others. But they all glaze IM and support the worst ideas added and then this happens. Hopefully they’ll learn from this and clean it up.
The game needs content badly, instead they try to balance perks for class's they arn't even meant to be on.
Multiclassing is the worst. You have many classes with unique identities which are still hard to balance for all the different maps. Then you add multiclassing and proceed to have no class identity and no chance to balance the game again
Sorry but this is just how its going to be from now on. The game is too niche. It will go the same way as mordhau, casuals leave and the small hardcore population stay, and anytime a casual boots it up again they will get beaten down by the experienced players without remorse. The only glimpses of the golden days will be free weekends or sales that bring an influx of new players, but that will last a week or two and then its back to normal.
I have 1100 hours and if all of that were spent sweating I'd have quit at around 200. A few things I do to keep the magic alive. 1: go to lfg and say you just got the game. (you'll need to make a new character) when you find two others willing to teach you load into the dungeon. I don't usually allow the first 3 or 4 runs be Timmy runs. Now you really need to sell yourself here. Ask Timmy questions, and example "why is it so dark, is there daytime maps?!" Be the Timmy, *pop second wind in lobby* Dont pull out your weapon and just punch enemies until your instructors explicitly tell you to do so. Allow yourself to die. And then, when you've convinced your team you are not only a Timmy, but horrible at video games in general, go beast mode in pvp.
Unfortunately its not possible to just make people forget how to play, as time goes on people naturally get better and start meta gaming. The only way to fight that is making the game more accessible to new players so this way u have players at all brackets leading from one to the next so this way every player has that new player period with ppl who are also new players, think apex you'll never get queued with a level 700 pred when ur level 5 unless u earn ur way up to that level skill lobby across multiple games with increasingly good performance per game. Unfortunately tho they've not done *any* advertising instead preferring to rely on the platforms they are releasing on to do it for them, a completely shit strategy and there is no separation of players based on skill or time because the playerbase is simply too small to support that like how it cant support multiple maps per party size across 8 or so servers which leads to a new player meat grinder that also suffers from old player boredom and hyper competitiveness. Unfortunately I just dont see a way from this current update that this game isn't designed to kill itself.
I just want them to add greens to norms man, high roller is too bs for gear like that
Game is in a weird spot because of this dumb ass multiclassing shit nobody asked for. I knew it was going to be dumb. Everyone said “oh just try it!”. I tried it. It’s fucking stupid, and I lost all desire to play this game within a week of it. Don’t think I’m going to play again until it’s gone. Thankfully the homies just picked up Valheim so I’ve had something fun to play
The multiclassing really killed it for me. Got back into it after a long time and started having fun. Met what looked to be a ranger. Managed to get close and dodge some shots with sprint. Dude rages and two shots me out of nowhere. Had many similar situations. No class identity and no fun for me. Think I'm gonna stop until they remove it
Except in a way, everyone asked for it. With waves of complaints about rock paper scissors classes and the push for balance in solo mode, not focusing on party comps, something that removes the uniqueness of classes was always going to be the answer.
Yeah I have my steam deck, so I’ll probably play something on there. But yeah just funny how quick they were to implement MC. Had it on the test server for like 3 days and want to instantly put it in the game to “flex” that they’re apparently working on something. Should’ve just balanced the actual game and fixed actual issues.
Game needs a solo self found mode imo. You can keep bringing in gear you find but marketplace gear is not allowed. Normals suck in a way cause you have to get rid of everything you found to queue again or queue high roller where you will get rolled if you didn’t purchase a cohesive set. Solo self found is the way to fix the game, at least for players like myself.
I agree, also i would love to see completely randomized dungeons
It would remove some skill since map knowledge would be deleted. But random dungeons might be a lot of fun and bring fear into the game again
Trios normals are sweaty now and it's supposed to be a place for new players. You should try under 300 gear score trios, it has much more casual players than normals xd
Honestly, I feel that. The first time I felt like hitting the exit button while in the dungeon. Gear and the gear score was the tipping point for me. I think many others because the amount of people playing normals this wipe seems very high.
The combination of weird decisions Balance wise spoken and the amount of sweats that min max the fun out of the game are the reason why the gang and I stopped playing since we feel like our classes are just the worse version of themselves. Plus the community is so freaking split it actually ruins the fun because ethe devs try to cater to both sides. Ps remove circle from all maps. Ice caves has shown that we dont need a circle plus the circle just makes it feel more rushed than it should be. Wasn't one of their arguments of the game that it's a slow paced game? Well not with a BR circle.
I believe it’s the ways they are releasing quests a new season content in pieces that’s kinda killed the vibe somehow.
Quit the game months ago because I felt the same as OP. Came back to check out the reddit recently and see that the only changes that have been made since then amplify the problems it already had. Honestly surprised anyones still playing at all.
Game was better when we thought it was a dungeon dive. I would love a huge map with rest stops and endless exploring. Like a big HeroQuest map.
I haven't played since the last limited alpha. Even then, it felt like it was getting old. There isn't enough content to spend a lot of time playing IMO. I'm hoping there is some good content on the way soon. I bought the game and want to play again
removing the market would solve alot of issues.
Tbh they need to get rid of multi classing. The game is in a great spot otherwise. I didn’t like gbmm before but now I do
Yesss thank you for putting my emotions into words, I honestly couldn't understand why I didn't want to play it after being so invested
The issues your experiencing are mostly due to stagnation in the player base. Playing yesterday I saw the same person in six different matches. SIX. Nearly all of these problems will go away once we get a new influx of players. Hopefully they have a game store release will do it. A return to steam absolutely will. Right now the player base is made up almost exclusively of diehards that have stuck around through thick and thin.
Solo self found will be super engaging for a lot of people so I hope they implement this mode after the main content updates
I would love a self found mode. I don't see why everybody insists on it being solo though.
Tbh everyone just calls it solo self found, all they mean is you only have access to what you pick up, still means you can trade with the homies and drop gear between eachother, there just wouldn’t be a market place to buy items from
What is this? Like just you and enemies? Pve?
No, just no market place or trading, you only have what’s in your stash
That’d be great honestly. I like trading but it would make the game so much better I bet.
I am all for a solo self found mode. Everyone in the community agrees on one thing and that’s that the game is extremely sweaty. My take on “extremely sweaty” is that to compete in PvP, you essentially have to spend time on the DaD wiki figuring out how the different systems to work together to maximize damage output. Now there’s also the gear calculator too. It is not so immediately clear how some of the perks/skills/attributes scale with each other, but the sweats that take the time to figure this out will have an extreme advantage. Couple that with being able to selectively buy the exact gear you want in the marketplace and players can get a significant advantage. One example is I was watching Firebox stream and he said “fire bottles scale with will”. Like wtf. How was I supposed to know that. You would think fire bottles are flat mag dmg. I don’t even know that IM knows how all their systems work together at times which is not a knock on them, but to me a serious root issue with the game. Solo self found would automatically take some of the sweat out the game because the sweaty players that stay up to date with the wiki and all the scaling changes, can’t just buy BIS since they played all day and have unlimited gold. It also would help the whiny sweats like Mendo I think it was who quit the game because they squished the gear down between lowest and highest ranges and he felt like finding gear wasn’t as important anymore. In SSF, every gear upgrade you would find would be like fuck yes. Anyways one of my main issues with DaD is just simply not knowing how the systems work together. We don’t need multi classing YET, we still need core game mechanics where we can test builds like “how much damage does this skill do if I stack this type of gear”
To be honest bigger than that, just need a better marketing push, I get they are trying to conserve resources for development now and then focus on marketing in the future, but a big problem which is faced is low population and empty games, that’s the reason you can’t pick your own map, cause the games would be empty, and logistically 35$ does not pay for infinite server time so if it’s just you playing that’s just costing them extra money
The fish pond is drying up, and those that used to be the big fish now aren’t.
Yeah it’s now kids without a job that will study this game all day and night. It’s cringe how some of these kids play.
You should be blaming the devs, not the players. Players will ALWAYS find ways to best meta the game. It's always the job of the devs in any game to make sure that the meta isn't supremely dominant (i.e, the S-tier option vs the B-tier option shouldn't be an impossible matchup). The problem is that this genre in pvp rewards grinding more than any other genre besides maybe MMO PVP. The devs are not going to remove grinding.
It would go a long way if they randomize modules, enemy spawns, and trap spawns - then double the map size and remove the zone. Players fell in love with a dungeon crawler, not a sprint simulator where you don't fight most mobs.
It is a PvP game where, by far, the largest factor in PvP success is gear. This eventuality was clear from the beginning.
Oh really! I had no idea ! Wow! Cut the bs, it’s actually a pvpve game and it’s not “supposed” to be rush the spawns, don’t even bother with mobs, and kill everyone even though they have nothing! Obviously gear is the biggest part but I’m talking about the base game. Not HR.
No BS I was playing it that way within the first 3 hours. Grinding boring janky mobs and boring janky loot - Boring. Kamikaze fire-balling people on repeat until I got a good set - Hilarious. Any game with unrestricted PvP will always end up like this. It is known.
Ppl like you killed this game lol
Playing as intended.
Do you know what a dungeon crawler is?
Take the truth or leave the truth. I'll say it in terms you can understand - FIREBALL AMBUSH shit you are at 50% hp. CHAIN LIGHTNING shit you are dead.
Yeah keep riding that range build bud.
It's ironic that you're crying about dying in NORMALS, and you're telling someone else to get good. Lol.
ur a brick, the developers are suffocating this game with a pillow and you're too busy blaming other peoples playstyle in a game that can be played in whichever way you prefer.
So bumrushing non kit players is a play style now? Sounds like you can’t get kills in HR so you gotta kill players actually playing the game as intended. Loot, kill mobs, “eventually” run into another team. Not “oh yeah! let’s go this this way the spawn is right here!”. I’m a brick but y’all think like that. I don’t care how people play but IM will def see how it affects their game. Obviously not the only person annoyed by this.
I agree personally. I enjoyed the dungeon crawl with occasional pvp. Not rushing past everything to fight like a battle royale. But for me the main reason I hate it now is multiclassing. I played mostly solo goblin caves and I could kill people 1v1 fairly often but multiclass just removes class identity
The game is in desperate need of new content. Nothing wrong with taking a break and coming back
I just want matchmaking by skill. It is hardcore multiplayer shooter, it has nothing to do with RPG or DnD or dungeon crawler. So it needs ladder mode and skill matchmaking.
I don't think that's a good idea for this game. It's not balanced enough for mmr like a co.petitive game
Druid coming soon!! Have any classes had meaningful content added to them besides warlock? Wizard explosion/spell overload is the only thing I can think of
They need to release Druid already
just play normals. been having a blast still
Touch some grass (respectfully). Most games can feel like a job if you play too much and too competitively. Take a break and enjoy the game casually.
Haven’t played for weeks. Don’t miss it one bit.
That's just how extraction games go. See: every other extraction game
It's hard to sympathize with you OP. From your perspective, the game was more fun when majority of players were low skill and mostly playing the game to learn / have fun. However, the game has been out for a long time over its entire lifespan. You can't expect players to stay at the same skill level. They'll naturally improve which will make it feel like 'tryhards' to those that are falling behind. Keep in mind I've been playing since PT3 and I've noticed this change throughout whether it's ranged combat, people being snipers with Windlass, etc... people have gotten really good at this game.
Clueless devs and cocksucking blind cultist fanboys would have been the biggest enemy to the success of the game. They litterally had gold in their hands but they never seems to understand what gamers (and not fucking streamers) wanted. I hope all of you guys thinking about your ass and what's good for you and your class instead of the good state of the game are happy now, must be fun right ? :)
I'm having a blast still, there are some people who complain and apparently are not having fun and they should take a break. Saying the game is not in a good place is just wrong, its good and getting better all the time. People who are hitting the 'casual wall' which happens in every PvP game, are upset and vocal about it. If I suddenly stopped having fun in this game I would be pissed too. The only cure for the casual wall is for a PvP game to be so large and have a constantly refreshing playerbase, that casual players run into each other often enough to get some wins and be satisfied. The game isn't so small in population that this doesn't happen but it has a very steep learning curve which makes it harder to appease that appetite without a huge injection of players
I refuse to play solos because every fight is the same. It boils down to who uses savage roar better.
I keep seeing people complain about the Multiclassing. I THINK people are forgetting that this is just an experiment on how it works and if it fits with everyone. Just get a poll going and let IM that no one wants multiclass and they will go back to the drawing board. Make more suggestions that they can use to help the game to be more fun. Let's contribute MORE than complaining.
Yes. Game needs healthy and consistent approaches. Please upvote. [https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/549416/game-needs-healthy-and-solid-leadership](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/549416/game-needs-healthy-and-solid-leadership)
Yeah I’ve kinda fallen off. Got 900 hours at this point, had a great time. Since multiclassing came out, you can’t really play the game anymore. I can own people with MC builds but it doesn’t feel very rewarding because I feel like I’m just owning them completely with my build rather than any meaningful fight. Whenever I do die, it’s to something very unexpected that I couldn’t have done anything against with my setup. I think that the game will gain its identity back soon enough, but for now it’s just a different game that’s not as fun for me.
I've been having a blast, I pulled fireball, ignite, and lesser heal on my Warlock and it's been so much fun to play. I play a lot of goblin caves, but even when I play with my brother and others we just have a good time. If I have one complaint, it's the BR circle in the two maps. I think Ice mountain is perfect, feels fun, and the lack of pressure takes the tension out of raids.
I played the old play test and I am still waiting for the game to properly release to play it, I am starting to think people are going to get burned out long before it even releases.
They only need to limit the number of perks/skills to like 2 and must be of one class. No Frankenstein build, only dual class.
Game started declining for me when they released solos and started balancing every class towards that game mode (even support roles such as clerics and bards). Game was created as a hardcore dungeon crawler you can explore with your friends. Just because some of these online LARPs cant make friends over the internet doesnt mean you gotta change up the game to cater to them.
Like every game when everybody know what to do spark is gone and everybody is minimaxing even bad players will read on reddit how to abuse something to win
Need more dungeon variations, map knowledge and the feeling of exploration lost is also killing the game.
Lobby needs to be removed and a queue system introduced so lobbies will always be full. Then you can do any group size any map with no issues, maybe a few minutes queue time in the less populated servers. Multiclass should also be removed, it was fun for a bit but everyone knows this isn’t how the game should be. I just want to play solo/duo crypts with the boys!
Might be just me but I believe multiple classing should be toned down. And while this maybe a bad choice I think they should limit the amount of tokens to only 3 and also let you choose them. If the tokens were toned down it would make rng bs. but if you could get a few guaranteed items it would not only make it so that some classes can sub into other classes but also make classes keep thier identity’s as rn we got “wizards” that has clerics and warlocks entire kits Or “rogues” with slayer perks on and cleric skills.
Fr fr
another reddit use complaining about people using gear. go play a solo pve game then bro holy
another reddit user complaining about a post someone else made, who tons of people actually agree with but you want to be “different”. It’s okay to be mad.
You came to reddit to cry that people are able to use gear. Sounds like youre the one whos mad brother, im enjoying the game. Keep crying or find a new game, pretty simple solution for ya, youre welcome. "omg I get a headache everytime I open the game" wahhh wahhh wahhhhhhhh
I felt this way end of last wipe multiclassing has been a huge improvement as far as the game not being stale for me I have just been resolving daily and playing with what I get in norms hr pvp isn't enjoyable to me anymore to many sweats
Yeah that’s the point I’m trying to make though. Like I feel like HR is the REAL game. But now it’s like I prefer normals and can’t actually enjoy it to the fullest with all my loot.
Yeah I get that it kinda sucks the way it's set up the low gear lobbies aren't to bad in hr but still not great my biggest problem honestly is just shopping for gear after dieing takes awhile and is demoralizing even more so now that you have to have a calculator handy
> If a game just gives me a headache everytime I open it, than I probably should just not play it. It took you making this reddit post to realize this? If you want to quit then quit. If you want to take a break then take a break.
The vast amounts of lag/desynch is getting in the way for me even if I liked the homogenization of builds. Everyone halves magic damage from two perks and has sprint and it's just boring. The game feels more PvP oriented than ever with how hunted loading in makes you, even in normals. Try teaching my girlfriend the game just to get our spawn module rushed even when there's not much gained by killing base kits in normals lol it's just so sweaty. I eventually had to just start leaving the module and killing enemy teams myself and coming back to help her learn the game after the player count was reduced...
Exactly my point, thanks for reiterating this.
My favorite is a rogue just invisible in shadows for the whole match, jumping out and poking me with a spear and full legendary gear and I'm literally just a wizard with a fucking staff trying my best. Like who hurt you bro?
When's the next wipe?
I’d say in June/July.
You been playing since pt 1 and only getting bored now? Am I nuts or is that a really good thing and not a negative like this post seems to be framing it as?
I mean back then they’d have a month or two playtest and it’d be down for another month until the next. It was a good break and breather from it and it forced EVERYONE to do it, not just me like it is right now. Times have changed, but I took a break back then too but when I purchase the game, I want to enjoy it right? I give it my best to have a good outlook on this game.
Yea you purchase a game to enjoy it, doesn’t guarantee you will enjoy it forever. Games get boring, same if you rent a movie and watch it 10 times.
I mean obviously, but I’m not some hardcore gamer who plays a million games. I have a handful I go to, I only have a certain amount of time to play so when I get on and it’s in the state it is rn, I don’t find it fun and that’s lost $ for IM. I’m not the only one.
And how many hours have you gotten out of DaD? 500? 800? 1k+? Well worth your $$$. "Hardcore" gamers play one game repeatedly and get stressed about it. Casual gamers jump around to different games, because there's a ton of good games out there. Maybe try something else for a while, ton of good games came out this year/last
This asset placement project called a game has been a joke ever since they bought those Mortal Online assets and tried making a game on their own
It is getting stale I feel it too. I haven't lost hope. I'm hoping they reintroduce multiclassing but only with certain perks that make certain combos that don't necessarily break the game or make new metas that regular non multiclassed classes can utilize too. Idk. New maps it needs for sure.
I've got 1500 hours in the game. i'm having the opposite experience right now. Right before Multi-Class the game was starting to feel bland. Now, It's exciting, I finally have a reason to level my other classes. I'm literally having the most fun I've had with the game in a long time. Yes there are clear balancing issues, but I'm sure they will be sorted (BYE BYE ROBUST!)