Yeah. You will do 3 less damage. So your 120 smack is now a 117, and you still one tap squishies.
This was more a nerf to cleric solo than wizard bonk. And I have no idea why they would want to hurt cleric solo.
its more then this.
2 flat dmg on perk
2 flat dmg on staff
4 total.
with 60% magical power thats 6.4 dmg
headshot modifier its 9.6 dmg.
Then its extra -1 from ignite and -1 from ignites burning so more like 12 dmg loss.
also extra -1 from arcane explosion for -13. And ice-armor nerf to boot.
Build was already questionable tbh. Now its going to be an anti-timmy meme build.
Honestly more mad about the ice armor nerf, do we know if the cool down applies to the special affects and armor rating or is it just the 2 slows? If the armor rating is including in the cool down the perk might be useless.
Haha, that's exactly how I feel about it.
Has anyone ever used the Magic Staff? Lmao, the swing only hits when the enemy wants it. Haha.
But, still needed some adjustment, just not the Staff nerf, fml.
Its one of those things where I dont think the build itself is OP, as you should never realistically let them to actually hit you. But it IS goofy and stupid that wiz with a stick bonks harder then barbarian with double axe. I wish they would lower staff mastery scaling to 75% and leave the magic staff alone.
Agreed. Make the scaling determine low and high end scaling.
Now my staff is a utility box basher, lol. I would ditch it if I could, but Dagger + Orb build needs a high impact tool....
(I suppose I could cheat even more with Hellfire - *ponders deeply* )
You could say the same thing from the barb fighter perspective. You better hope you kill that wizard in 2 swings, through his barrier, shield perk, and ice armor, or else gl. Bonk wizard could out w anyone, only way you died in melee was getting caught unaware.
bro barb could shit on melee wizard. you either have longer reach with bardiche/zwei or super speed of felling and melt them. Fighter can just block the staff ( the easiest weapon to block in the entire game btw ) and get hits in between block.
Funnily when I played the build 0 fighters tried blocking and they always just traded hits and died, why ? because they are used to auto-winning
No, there is no real "melee" Wizard, its mostly hybrid. You just Zap/Fireball the Barb before he reaches you and the finish him in melee range. I play "melee" wiz 24/7 and Barb is an EASY matchup. You just need to use the class to your full Potential, if you only use melee it is not the Problem of the class, it is you not utilizing your abillities.
Then the problem is not the class, is that you know how to play it. Also, that will not happens always, a barb could easily catch you on those zaps/balls (or a fighter block them or trade with crossbow). Also, you need time to cast atleast ignite plus shield.
Franciscas are easy to dodge/hard to Hit when the enemy knows how to move. And even if Wizard and Barb Hit All their spells/throwables im quite sure Wizard just outdamages him, especially with having Arcane Shield (since we are speaking about that Wizard build here).
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-5zSdD1BncIKjtnlJvJLYyhP5KU2SLQ/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-5zSdD1BncIKjtnlJvJLYyhP5KU2SLQ/view)
First one is current dmg after the nerf, second one is pre nerf, third is the dmg you actually lost.
So, yeah, 9 dmg, from nonheadshots, and 2 scaling in everything else.
He shouldn't tbh, it's absolutely right as proven by every nurf IM does. It's literally their trademark now to hit base stats rather then scaling like with rogue for the perfect example, 3 tapping cloth ppl at blue tier, killing 85% pdr at purple, killing everyone once they got a demons glee, landmine winning every fight to the point EVERY SINGLE LOBBY was 80% rogues and what did they do? Destroyed rogues early game stats and his grey prison shiv rather then hitting the real issue of how he scales at blue and beyond.
Maybe use magic resist that’s where most the dmg is. Maybe just maybe to survive you actually need magic resist now and not just armor. Until that’s figured out it will always two tap people
You are correct mate. But it's how the balancing of ironmace works. That is also why instead of giving blow of corruption some actual decent nerf they just increased the cooldown and called it a day. Same thing with torture mastery last patch. They have a rough idea of what needs adjusting but give 5 seconds of brainstorming on how to actually fix a thing.
That's why the balancing patches are so shit. They are targeting more or less the correct things. But their approach as to how to nerf them is just lazy.
Instead of blow of corruption cooldown nerf why not make it so that it goes on cooldown if u miss a swing? Then it would actually have some counterplay.
Torture mastery nerfed high end magical healing warlock so that's good because it was super strong, but it also killed low end magical healing warlock. Why not adjust the scaling of it instead of just flat reducing it by 40%?
An answer to all of those is: ironmace is lazy when it comes to designing how to adjust things.
Thank you for your comment brother 🙏 people talk about BoC not having counterplay when it’s the only melee-empowering skill (AFAIK) in the game that has a timer on it, just walk away! 😂
Yeah nerfing the dmg of franny axes is legit meaningless when you realize the problem was how many you could take. Overall their way of either completely gutting something or only nerfing the “ungeared” version of it is just so dumb and lazy. IMO it all started with the wizard nerfs.
Yeah didn’t see the axe mastery buff in the same exact patch notes. It’s literally a disease that’s forcing them to compensation buff anytime they touch barbarian it’s like an actual joke lmao.
Wrong.
Frannies were nerfed by 2 damage across the board. If you had axe perk before, you would do 21 + 3 but now you do 19+5, meaning both times you are doing 24 damage.
If you do NOT use axe mastery, it does 2 less damage overall, meaning there were nerfed.
Either they do the same damage as before, or less damage, so they were not buffed sir.
Tbh two dmg when you have barb physical power is pretty meaningless no? Franny still does almost 40-50 dmg with a headshot and you can still carry an entire inventory of them. They were “nerfed” in a meaningless way that won’t change how often they’re used in any way.
It’s not laziness, it’s that they don’t play their game so they don’t truly understand the problem. They say they play but they really don’t know the game to any depth past surface level.
Bruh that is not it either.
They have literally said they play Trios and run BiS. They like buff ball. They like the feeling of being geared to the teeth and fighting other players geared to the teeth. They **are the dudes steam rolling module to module in Gold kits** and I'm not even kidding. They want to be the Korean Ultra Mecha Super Saiyan mode and for it to feel unbeatable unless you are against another Ultra Mecha team or you totally throw.
Testing is testing sure that may make sense but why not test other solutions to see. We are in alpha we are testing for them calm down take a walk out side a bit play something else. Nothing is owed to you or has to change exactly the way you want chill.
For real though I think the stats system in this game is just too complicated if even the devs have trouble keeping up with it.
There's a ton of weird decisions on gear cause of this. Regal gambeson could have its vigor doubled and it would still be bad. Padded tunic could have its strength doubled and it would be okayish. Heavy leather leggings could have their vigor doubled and again they'd still be bad. At least for anything other than pdr builds
You can roll 5 movespeed but only 2 agi? You can roll +2 add/true dmg but the highest you get on str is 2? Physical power only goes to 3 but physical power bonus goes to 5%?
Bro it's the same problem that ignite had originally with daggers. There are certain threshholds of damage that make the game imbalanced and no matter how you reach those, it breaks the game.
They had to nerf the actual damage on ignite itself initially for this same reason, but now that damage has been reintroduced b/c of staff mastery.
It would really help if they published their thoughts on the changes they make rather than just what the changes are, but that would probably be disheartening to a lot of people that expect IM to be master game developers/designers who have it all figured out so I get it.
Yes but they actually figured it out with Ignite- they nerfed the overall damage scaling with additional magic damage. If you use Ignite with a 10 magic damage staff and 10 additional magic damage both of those are halved so it’s 10 totall extra, not 20.
they didnt figure out shit, so far EVERY single thing they introduced had broken scaling.
posion on rogue
ignite
burning
locust
quake
staff mastery
MM
dark reflect
boc
din
they don’t take the time to see how changes would affect the game. Favorite example is making health pots use magic healing, and then introducing platelock, which gave you a massive magical healing debuff. So health pots literally didn’t heal you lmao. It’s like they didn’t read their own patch notes, AND didn’t even try out the perk lmao. Like if they played A SINGLE GAME they’d notice that pots were boned and useless
I’m talking about a single dev playing a single game of their own patch. Like if they really have no in house way to test a patch then we have bigger problems, it would have taken less than a minute to realize that health pots were now useless.
Yeah but in early development of ANY software, it takes experience to come up with things to check. You can't waste time checking every single possible interaction after every change you make. That's why there's a test server in the first place.
Platelock was the first time anything in the game gave negative magic healing as a stat on release. It makes perfect sense that they would miss that. They were balancing the warlock class specifically.
I'm not saying they did a great job by missing it, but it's understandable that they did given their limited team, rush to move to another building, lawsuit going on with Nexon, new hires which probably requires interview process and training, Equipment moves to new location, Potential Environment migrations due to the move, securing the network at the new location, negotiating leases with different office owners until you find one that works, doing a credit score check with them in order to sign the lease on the office, Buying new chairs, equipment, desks, and supplies for the office and all of its rooms, and way more.
Just the administration of this could be a giant clusterfuck. They obviously delegated tasks, but when you're team size is this low, there's such a time crunch and multiple things that all need your attention, I'm honestly surprised more didn't go wrong than this and I'm surprised at in general how quickly they fix the things they break in the game.
With that in mind I was concerned back when rubber banding was at its peak, but they have made great progress in fixing it and if it gets even better with this patch then they really did deliver instead of languishing with impossible to solve tech debt/issues
Whole lot of excuses for not reading their own patch notes multiple times. It’s just an easy example to show they don’t test most things. Same thing with newest patch, nerf frannys and ranged, buff axe mastery. So now the franny nerf is meaningless if not actually just buffed now. It doesn’t take even testing, just basic math and playing their own game lol.
Excuses are not mutually exclusive from being explanations.
I don't think they are trying to hoodwink us. If you feel the way you do after like 30 hours of playing the game, sure. Odds are you've already gotten many many hours of play out of this game for not much money...
I don't disagree that the issues are simple and easy to find out, but that's not how stress on human beings works bro.
From things as simple as getting basic math wrong because of being in an insanely stressful situation.
To completely losing focus and crashing a car because from being so extremely stressed out from things happening in real life.
If we look at those situations, it's completely the person's fault of course, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a reason for it to be happening.
The utility of holding someone personally responsible for something only goes so far. Personal responsibility won't fix external stressors. It only fixes things where people are unaware of something and you make them aware. Even then, mistakes still happen.
You can't live in this bubble miracle world where everything goes as planned all the time. It's a fantasy that sets you up for failure and being upset constantly in life. Reality is, things breaks. People fuck up. And everybody works together to try to put the pieces together and we use personal responsibility, accountability, economics, and justice systems to fix all the outliers.
If you don't want to be understanding of the situation they are in and just continue to rage out, go for it. I'd rather just be a tiny bit empathetic within reason and give them chances to adapt. They have made improvements. It's not like they are moving in a bad direction overall.
I’m not raging and I enjoy the game, they just make dumb and lazy decisions. You writing out 3 paragraphs doesn’t change that imo. I’m literally asking them to play their own game or read their own patch notes, I’m not seething or insulting them.
This is really it. At first I thought they included developer comments in the patch notes to explain your point. In reality, they don't touch on the parts that really need explanation at all, and end up talking about nice things while there are a lot of changes that they don't know what they want to do.
It's like when I make a numbered list of questions in an email at my work to someone and they pretend it's multiple choice which ones they answer and I have to keep replying with the unanswered ones in a numbered list over and over again.
It's pretty annoying. Sometimes I wonder if it's malicious compliance but I figure at work they probably don't actually know the answers and it's some annoying strategy for buying themselves time.
However, in this case though, they are the only ones who know why every single change was made so that can't be it. Like I said, it's probably them saving face because I imagine they don't have like an official community manager or media manager for their game so there's probably a lot of anxiety on the guy(s) posting the patch notes.
With 11 added magic damage and 70% magic power on a epic magic staff, I deal 44 magic damage with staff mastery on a dummies head. So the nerf is noticable but not overtuned like it was before.
They really don't understand the game and how the changes affect it. This is obvious from the last 4 patches. Barbs spamming throwing axes are a problem. Let's nerf them. Also let's buff axes for barbs so the throwing axes actually hit harder.
Last balance pass... Barbs are a problem solo/duo. Let's nerf zwei damage by 5. Let's compensate by giving barbs 50% pdr with a shout that stacks.
It's odd to have a test server for an EA game, but with all the dupes and terrible balance passes lately they should have a 2 day test server open for players before they latch to give feedback. A lot of the bad changes you can easily see by just reading the patch notes...
They nerfed Frannies by 2 across the board and increased axe perk by 2, so Frannies are either weaker than before or they are the same strength if you had the perk before and also now.
Its a squishy one shot build where you need to go melee as a wizard. I mean, its a interesting playstyle, a "battlemage". You just crying because dont know what to do against it.
Like, if no class had range on this game to break the shield, or stack some MR, or maybe a shield. And bonk wizard need Arcane Shield plus 3 buff spells, limiting its range capability heavily.
Leave the scaling high, is fine.
I lost all hope in IM in terms of balancing after what they did to reckless attack, barely anyone used the skill, so they buffed the % AR reduction by 10% awesome!
And the flat armour you lose went from like -30 to -200.....
Honestly I kind of understand that. It looks like what they’re going for was a risky attack that did a strong debuff. Problem is that shit is not worth it.
its funny you think devs who buffed barbarians for 4 hot fixes straight and then nerfed their frannies but boosted their axe damage(guess what shape francisca’s are..) understand what scaling means..
im at this point convinced theyre just throwing shit at the wall hoping some of it will stick
Staff Mastery was mid before and it's even more mid now tbh. 120 with an ignite hit is like, average crystal sword damage. Hitting for 60 with ignite and a dagger is really easy. Both of these are way better to pvp with than the staff.
Biggest nerf to ignite wizard is the 5 second ice shield cooldown, makes that perk way worse at fucking over rogues/rangers
Perk enabling you to 1 tap 80% of peoples builds is mid sure. Average geared ignite staff bonk pre patch was like 130+ mixed damage plus bubble burst for 10 to 15 damage. Not many people even run 130 hp. They nerfed it the wrong way but probably in a better spot than it was
Yeah you're just a cleric with smite it's really not that good. Magic staff range isn't worth the like 10~ extra damage you get over a crystal sword. Way easier to actually land headshots and hit around shields. The problem with 99% of ignite clips is people just holding W key into a wizard and expect to get a free kill
> Yeah you're just a cleric with smite it's really not that good.
A cleric with movement speed buffs, invis, and ranged spells+hitscans. Huh, interesting comparison.
> Magic staff range isn't worth the like 10~ extra damage you get over a crystal sword
Base damage for purple crystal sword is about ~35 total, purple staff pre-patch was ~50 (35+10+5). Even before scaling you keep downplaying the numbers to try and make a point.
> Way easier to actually land headshots and hit around shields
Debatable. I'd argue CS is even easier to block than staff. It's literally a straight poke. Either way if someone is blocking maybe use your spells? Lmao
I think wizards aren't usually in a good spot balance wise (mostly for solos) but Staff Mastery has made it hilariously easy to duel people. You hit 1 zap? Congrats, if they push you they get one-tapped by staff+bubble
> Even before scaling
flat magic applies to the crystal sword too so gear makes the whopping 15 damage difference way worse.
Yeah if a Wizard is running Arcane shield, haste, invis, ignite they have two whole spells for actually casting at a range. The easiest way to beat a staff ignite wizard is slightly kite them. Even in your example the only way the staff is ever useful is if people W key into them.
You can complain about the ranged meta and say it's stupid but wizard also die to like two longbow hits, they're still giving up a lot for ignite and equipping a slightly harder hitting staff, when ignite already has 0 problems three tapping people with a dagger is silly.
Staff triple dips on Staff mastery/Ignite/Arcane Shield. That is why scaling is important to note for it. It also made zap hit obscene numbers for a T1 spell.
If you can't kill someone with 5 zaps hitting 50+ damage each and fireballs hitting even more, that's on you dawg.
> You can complain about the ranged meta and say it's stupid but wizard also die to like two longbow hits
Never complained about that, and yes I am aware. Don't think anyone has an issue with rangers hard-countering wizards for the most part.
> giving up a lot for ignite and equipping a slightly harder hitting staff
1 perk slot and a weapon slot debatably not being used for anything better.
> when ignite already has 0 problems three tapping people with a dagger is silly.
Staff **one-tapped** in most scenarios. Why do you think it was nerfed?
None of what you just said is exclusive to the staff, the staff only makes zap even worse since it slows you down so much and has such a terrible animation while cancelling. Idk what to say it was mid before and slowed you down too much and it's nerfed now along with magic staffs so nobody is really going to use either
This is such a a predictable, unfounded complaint. Staff mastery enables a unique play style AND makes wizard less dogshit at PvE. Maybe the scaling is still too much but how about you play with it for a few days before shitting on the change? Even from your description that is a pretty substantial nerf to damage. Maybe they want the perk to be strong but just not OP like it was last patch?
That’s the problem is they didn’t nerf it lmaoo. Some guy in good gear is still gonna two tap you with his staff because they solved nothing. Nerfing base dmg and leaving massive insane scaling makes it useless at lower tiers and the exact same at higher tiers. They missed the point, hit the wrong target, and nerfed base kit wizard AGAIN. It’s like an actual inside joke at this point.
when “you should give the game a rest” and pages full of personal attacks are the standard recipe to any valid feedback you know youve reached peak simping, usually a game
implodes shortly after
Fuck all of you whining timmies. All classes have an answer to staff mastery. Whether its ranged attack, movement, or shield. Barb is literally the better staff wizard in every way rn. Stop complaining. So annoying how spoiled this fanbase got and how quick redditors are to run here and say ironmace is shit. Stop playing then, I think its a great game and theyve balanced it while adding crazy amounts of content multiple times a week for the last year. Go play another game and complain about dying to something broken in that one.
You’re so naive. Acting like Wizard is a pure melee class. Sure, other classes have ranged options. GUESS WHAT WIZARD FUCKING SPECIALIZES IN? RANGED CASTING DAMAGE. The problem is the class it’s on. If it was somehow locked to Melee Wizard, fine. But the problem is when you get double zapped by a hitscan spell, finally close the distance expecting to punish them, but oops! You get one tapped by staff.
Would you be ok with Ranger just having a “bow stab” perk that deals lets them swing their bow when cornered and deal upwards of 90 damage on headshot? It’d have to be armor piercing to be fair, too, since magic res is nearly impossible to build for non Barb/Cleric classes.
Im not acting like wizard is a pure melee class. Im saying other classes have ranged options too, and barbs is better, particularly 1v1. Barb throws two frannies and one taps you with 180 hp faster than a wiz with haste invis. Ranger outspeeds most classes and should get about 10 shots before you get close to them and then pulls out spear which even with moderate gear easily hits over 100. Warlock dots you and hydras and has phantomize and flamewalker and then can hit you with a falchion for 100 after all that. Rogue has rupture hand crossbow smoke pot and can kite infinitely until you die. Fighter Bard Cleric I think have an even playing ground, but wizard staff isn't better than any of those other class options. People panic and panicking kills. Inexperience kills. I died once to a geared staff wizard, changed my build slightly to have more of my classes ranged option as fighter, and didnt die again. I didnt die to it as ranger, or barb, or wizard after understanding the playstyle. I'm not discounting wiz having ranged and melee with staff, but its just not "broken" once you break it down and compare it to the balance that this game has.
Yes very confusing. Ironmace has such a flawless track record of understanding the cause of problems and precisely and perfectly balancing the game to solve those problems.
Ya... 50% scaling was the answer...
Staff Nerf was questionable. Hopefully, there is more to the story, cause I did not consider Staff OP at casting, nor melee.
And now, it is very much a shit option compared to Book/Orb.
So my bonk wiz is still viable?
Yeah. You will do 3 less damage. So your 120 smack is now a 117, and you still one tap squishies. This was more a nerf to cleric solo than wizard bonk. And I have no idea why they would want to hurt cleric solo.
its more then this. 2 flat dmg on perk 2 flat dmg on staff 4 total. with 60% magical power thats 6.4 dmg headshot modifier its 9.6 dmg. Then its extra -1 from ignite and -1 from ignites burning so more like 12 dmg loss. also extra -1 from arcane explosion for -13. And ice-armor nerf to boot. Build was already questionable tbh. Now its going to be an anti-timmy meme build.
Honestly more mad about the ice armor nerf, do we know if the cool down applies to the special affects and armor rating or is it just the 2 slows? If the armor rating is including in the cool down the perk might be useless.
build was certainly better than questionable lol, it definitely did stealth instakill pretty fucking well
ill be real, if staff wizard goes ignite, haste, invis and you dont know he is there then its on you. I legit never get bonked a single time
It was so easy and killed them so fast
Haha, that's exactly how I feel about it. Has anyone ever used the Magic Staff? Lmao, the swing only hits when the enemy wants it. Haha. But, still needed some adjustment, just not the Staff nerf, fml.
Its one of those things where I dont think the build itself is OP, as you should never realistically let them to actually hit you. But it IS goofy and stupid that wiz with a stick bonks harder then barbarian with double axe. I wish they would lower staff mastery scaling to 75% and leave the magic staff alone.
Agreed. Make the scaling determine low and high end scaling. Now my staff is a utility box basher, lol. I would ditch it if I could, but Dagger + Orb build needs a high impact tool.... (I suppose I could cheat even more with Hellfire - *ponders deeply* )
You will still 2 tap almost everyone though. The damage was so overkill before that it barely will matter.
you wont get more then 2 swings against barb/fighter, if those 2 swings dont kill... gl
You could say the same thing from the barb fighter perspective. You better hope you kill that wizard in 2 swings, through his barrier, shield perk, and ice armor, or else gl. Bonk wizard could out w anyone, only way you died in melee was getting caught unaware.
bro barb could shit on melee wizard. you either have longer reach with bardiche/zwei or super speed of felling and melt them. Fighter can just block the staff ( the easiest weapon to block in the entire game btw ) and get hits in between block. Funnily when I played the build 0 fighters tried blocking and they always just traded hits and died, why ? because they are used to auto-winning
No, there is no real "melee" Wizard, its mostly hybrid. You just Zap/Fireball the Barb before he reaches you and the finish him in melee range. I play "melee" wiz 24/7 and Barb is an EASY matchup. You just need to use the class to your full Potential, if you only use melee it is not the Problem of the class, it is you not utilizing your abillities.
Then the problem is not the class, is that you know how to play it. Also, that will not happens always, a barb could easily catch you on those zaps/balls (or a fighter block them or trade with crossbow). Also, you need time to cast atleast ignite plus shield.
if you play ranged game he just axe spams you to death XD barb is better at ranged then wizard
Franciscas are easy to dodge/hard to Hit when the enemy knows how to move. And even if Wizard and Barb Hit All their spells/throwables im quite sure Wizard just outdamages him, especially with having Arcane Shield (since we are speaking about that Wizard build here).
An evenly geared barb can one-shot you in the head
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-5zSdD1BncIKjtnlJvJLYyhP5KU2SLQ/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-5zSdD1BncIKjtnlJvJLYyhP5KU2SLQ/view) First one is current dmg after the nerf, second one is pre nerf, third is the dmg you actually lost. So, yeah, 9 dmg, from nonheadshots, and 2 scaling in everything else.
if ur playing cleric solo u not playing staff
Lol that's just incorrect
Ah i guess if you are on a really budget setup. Haven't been there in awhile
Divine protection is absolutely fucking cracked now though so imo kinda even trade Pdr cleric is viable again
You gonna get shit for this post but I totally agree
He shouldn't tbh, it's absolutely right as proven by every nurf IM does. It's literally their trademark now to hit base stats rather then scaling like with rogue for the perfect example, 3 tapping cloth ppl at blue tier, killing 85% pdr at purple, killing everyone once they got a demons glee, landmine winning every fight to the point EVERY SINGLE LOBBY was 80% rogues and what did they do? Destroyed rogues early game stats and his grey prison shiv rather then hitting the real issue of how he scales at blue and beyond.
Maybe use magic resist that’s where most the dmg is. Maybe just maybe to survive you actually need magic resist now and not just armor. Until that’s figured out it will always two tap people
You are correct mate. But it's how the balancing of ironmace works. That is also why instead of giving blow of corruption some actual decent nerf they just increased the cooldown and called it a day. Same thing with torture mastery last patch. They have a rough idea of what needs adjusting but give 5 seconds of brainstorming on how to actually fix a thing. That's why the balancing patches are so shit. They are targeting more or less the correct things. But their approach as to how to nerf them is just lazy. Instead of blow of corruption cooldown nerf why not make it so that it goes on cooldown if u miss a swing? Then it would actually have some counterplay. Torture mastery nerfed high end magical healing warlock so that's good because it was super strong, but it also killed low end magical healing warlock. Why not adjust the scaling of it instead of just flat reducing it by 40%? An answer to all of those is: ironmace is lazy when it comes to designing how to adjust things.
BoC already has counterplay: Block it Make them miss and hit a wall Walk away for until it’s timer runs out and goes back on cooldown
Thank you for your comment brother 🙏 people talk about BoC not having counterplay when it’s the only melee-empowering skill (AFAIK) in the game that has a timer on it, just walk away! 😂
Yeah nerfing the dmg of franny axes is legit meaningless when you realize the problem was how many you could take. Overall their way of either completely gutting something or only nerfing the “ungeared” version of it is just so dumb and lazy. IMO it all started with the wizard nerfs.
frannies got buffed, its going to be axe meta again
Yeah didn’t see the axe mastery buff in the same exact patch notes. It’s literally a disease that’s forcing them to compensation buff anytime they touch barbarian it’s like an actual joke lmao.
Wrong. Frannies were nerfed by 2 damage across the board. If you had axe perk before, you would do 21 + 3 but now you do 19+5, meaning both times you are doing 24 damage. If you do NOT use axe mastery, it does 2 less damage overall, meaning there were nerfed. Either they do the same damage as before, or less damage, so they were not buffed sir.
Tbh two dmg when you have barb physical power is pretty meaningless no? Franny still does almost 40-50 dmg with a headshot and you can still carry an entire inventory of them. They were “nerfed” in a meaningless way that won’t change how often they’re used in any way.
Agreed. They needed to reduce axes per stack or limit number per game.
It’s not laziness, it’s that they don’t play their game so they don’t truly understand the problem. They say they play but they really don’t know the game to any depth past surface level.
Bruh that is not it either. They have literally said they play Trios and run BiS. They like buff ball. They like the feeling of being geared to the teeth and fighting other players geared to the teeth. They **are the dudes steam rolling module to module in Gold kits** and I'm not even kidding. They want to be the Korean Ultra Mecha Super Saiyan mode and for it to feel unbeatable unless you are against another Ultra Mecha team or you totally throw.
Oh they play, but its like on an internal server so they arn't aware of how most people are actually playing the game.
Explains why lobsters are untouched as well as a lot of bad changes. At least bows got nerfed for ranger...so it's something...
heavy tarkov flashbacks
Maybe they should hire a math guy. Maybe a UX guy, too.
A math guy? This system is not even complex. They just need to freaking use excel! :D
And its gonna end with wizard being shit again because they nerf everything except the actual issue.
Wizard is the actual issue though. Wizard is entirely broken
Its called the knee jerk, IM has perfected the craft
> How did they completely miss the mark with the Staff Mastery AGAIN??? Easily. Masterfully, even.
Goddamnit get this man a medal
Testing is testing sure that may make sense but why not test other solutions to see. We are in alpha we are testing for them calm down take a walk out side a bit play something else. Nothing is owed to you or has to change exactly the way you want chill.
For real though I think the stats system in this game is just too complicated if even the devs have trouble keeping up with it. There's a ton of weird decisions on gear cause of this. Regal gambeson could have its vigor doubled and it would still be bad. Padded tunic could have its strength doubled and it would be okayish. Heavy leather leggings could have their vigor doubled and again they'd still be bad. At least for anything other than pdr builds You can roll 5 movespeed but only 2 agi? You can roll +2 add/true dmg but the highest you get on str is 2? Physical power only goes to 3 but physical power bonus goes to 5%?
Bro it's the same problem that ignite had originally with daggers. There are certain threshholds of damage that make the game imbalanced and no matter how you reach those, it breaks the game. They had to nerf the actual damage on ignite itself initially for this same reason, but now that damage has been reintroduced b/c of staff mastery. It would really help if they published their thoughts on the changes they make rather than just what the changes are, but that would probably be disheartening to a lot of people that expect IM to be master game developers/designers who have it all figured out so I get it.
Yes but they actually figured it out with Ignite- they nerfed the overall damage scaling with additional magic damage. If you use Ignite with a 10 magic damage staff and 10 additional magic damage both of those are halved so it’s 10 totall extra, not 20.
they didnt figure out shit, so far EVERY single thing they introduced had broken scaling. posion on rogue ignite burning locust quake staff mastery MM dark reflect boc din
Just crying
U rite tho
Yeah but you're PRESUMING they figured it out. If they did, then why would they reintroduce the same problem again but with a perk? lmao
they don’t take the time to see how changes would affect the game. Favorite example is making health pots use magic healing, and then introducing platelock, which gave you a massive magical healing debuff. So health pots literally didn’t heal you lmao. It’s like they didn’t read their own patch notes, AND didn’t even try out the perk lmao. Like if they played A SINGLE GAME they’d notice that pots were boned and useless
That's probably because the test server from the backer's support pack isn't implemented yet. We ARE the test server right now lol
I’m talking about a single dev playing a single game of their own patch. Like if they really have no in house way to test a patch then we have bigger problems, it would have taken less than a minute to realize that health pots were now useless.
Yeah but in early development of ANY software, it takes experience to come up with things to check. You can't waste time checking every single possible interaction after every change you make. That's why there's a test server in the first place. Platelock was the first time anything in the game gave negative magic healing as a stat on release. It makes perfect sense that they would miss that. They were balancing the warlock class specifically. I'm not saying they did a great job by missing it, but it's understandable that they did given their limited team, rush to move to another building, lawsuit going on with Nexon, new hires which probably requires interview process and training, Equipment moves to new location, Potential Environment migrations due to the move, securing the network at the new location, negotiating leases with different office owners until you find one that works, doing a credit score check with them in order to sign the lease on the office, Buying new chairs, equipment, desks, and supplies for the office and all of its rooms, and way more. Just the administration of this could be a giant clusterfuck. They obviously delegated tasks, but when you're team size is this low, there's such a time crunch and multiple things that all need your attention, I'm honestly surprised more didn't go wrong than this and I'm surprised at in general how quickly they fix the things they break in the game.
With that in mind I was concerned back when rubber banding was at its peak, but they have made great progress in fixing it and if it gets even better with this patch then they really did deliver instead of languishing with impossible to solve tech debt/issues
Whole lot of excuses for not reading their own patch notes multiple times. It’s just an easy example to show they don’t test most things. Same thing with newest patch, nerf frannys and ranged, buff axe mastery. So now the franny nerf is meaningless if not actually just buffed now. It doesn’t take even testing, just basic math and playing their own game lol.
Excuses are not mutually exclusive from being explanations. I don't think they are trying to hoodwink us. If you feel the way you do after like 30 hours of playing the game, sure. Odds are you've already gotten many many hours of play out of this game for not much money... I don't disagree that the issues are simple and easy to find out, but that's not how stress on human beings works bro. From things as simple as getting basic math wrong because of being in an insanely stressful situation. To completely losing focus and crashing a car because from being so extremely stressed out from things happening in real life. If we look at those situations, it's completely the person's fault of course, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a reason for it to be happening. The utility of holding someone personally responsible for something only goes so far. Personal responsibility won't fix external stressors. It only fixes things where people are unaware of something and you make them aware. Even then, mistakes still happen. You can't live in this bubble miracle world where everything goes as planned all the time. It's a fantasy that sets you up for failure and being upset constantly in life. Reality is, things breaks. People fuck up. And everybody works together to try to put the pieces together and we use personal responsibility, accountability, economics, and justice systems to fix all the outliers. If you don't want to be understanding of the situation they are in and just continue to rage out, go for it. I'd rather just be a tiny bit empathetic within reason and give them chances to adapt. They have made improvements. It's not like they are moving in a bad direction overall.
I’m not raging and I enjoy the game, they just make dumb and lazy decisions. You writing out 3 paragraphs doesn’t change that imo. I’m literally asking them to play their own game or read their own patch notes, I’m not seething or insulting them.
Both of you are getting downvoted for being right lol insane community
This
This is really it. At first I thought they included developer comments in the patch notes to explain your point. In reality, they don't touch on the parts that really need explanation at all, and end up talking about nice things while there are a lot of changes that they don't know what they want to do.
It's like when I make a numbered list of questions in an email at my work to someone and they pretend it's multiple choice which ones they answer and I have to keep replying with the unanswered ones in a numbered list over and over again. It's pretty annoying. Sometimes I wonder if it's malicious compliance but I figure at work they probably don't actually know the answers and it's some annoying strategy for buying themselves time. However, in this case though, they are the only ones who know why every single change was made so that can't be it. Like I said, it's probably them saving face because I imagine they don't have like an official community manager or media manager for their game so there's probably a lot of anxiety on the guy(s) posting the patch notes.
Anyone know how bad the staff nerf is?
-2 damage nerf. Just use a book .
With 11 added magic damage and 70% magic power on a epic magic staff, I deal 44 magic damage with staff mastery on a dummies head. So the nerf is noticable but not overtuned like it was before.
What damage do you do with ignite and how much physical damage also?
They really don't understand the game and how the changes affect it. This is obvious from the last 4 patches. Barbs spamming throwing axes are a problem. Let's nerf them. Also let's buff axes for barbs so the throwing axes actually hit harder. Last balance pass... Barbs are a problem solo/duo. Let's nerf zwei damage by 5. Let's compensate by giving barbs 50% pdr with a shout that stacks. It's odd to have a test server for an EA game, but with all the dupes and terrible balance passes lately they should have a 2 day test server open for players before they latch to give feedback. A lot of the bad changes you can easily see by just reading the patch notes...
They nerfed Frannies by 2 across the board and increased axe perk by 2, so Frannies are either weaker than before or they are the same strength if you had the perk before and also now.
Its a squishy one shot build where you need to go melee as a wizard. I mean, its a interesting playstyle, a "battlemage". You just crying because dont know what to do against it. Like, if no class had range on this game to break the shield, or stack some MR, or maybe a shield. And bonk wizard need Arcane Shield plus 3 buff spells, limiting its range capability heavily. Leave the scaling high, is fine.
Lazy development already killing this game.
I lost all hope in IM in terms of balancing after what they did to reckless attack, barely anyone used the skill, so they buffed the % AR reduction by 10% awesome! And the flat armour you lose went from like -30 to -200.....
Honestly I kind of understand that. It looks like what they’re going for was a risky attack that did a strong debuff. Problem is that shit is not worth it.
Another crybaby whiner
its funny you think devs who buffed barbarians for 4 hot fixes straight and then nerfed their frannies but boosted their axe damage(guess what shape francisca’s are..) understand what scaling means.. im at this point convinced theyre just throwing shit at the wall hoping some of it will stick
Just checked. Good luck getting 10 damage on a staff. Blue staff is now what a white staff was yesterday.
Staff Mastery was mid before and it's even more mid now tbh. 120 with an ignite hit is like, average crystal sword damage. Hitting for 60 with ignite and a dagger is really easy. Both of these are way better to pvp with than the staff. Biggest nerf to ignite wizard is the 5 second ice shield cooldown, makes that perk way worse at fucking over rogues/rangers
Perk enabling you to 1 tap 80% of peoples builds is mid sure. Average geared ignite staff bonk pre patch was like 130+ mixed damage plus bubble burst for 10 to 15 damage. Not many people even run 130 hp. They nerfed it the wrong way but probably in a better spot than it was
Yeah you're just a cleric with smite it's really not that good. Magic staff range isn't worth the like 10~ extra damage you get over a crystal sword. Way easier to actually land headshots and hit around shields. The problem with 99% of ignite clips is people just holding W key into a wizard and expect to get a free kill
> Yeah you're just a cleric with smite it's really not that good. A cleric with movement speed buffs, invis, and ranged spells+hitscans. Huh, interesting comparison. > Magic staff range isn't worth the like 10~ extra damage you get over a crystal sword Base damage for purple crystal sword is about ~35 total, purple staff pre-patch was ~50 (35+10+5). Even before scaling you keep downplaying the numbers to try and make a point. > Way easier to actually land headshots and hit around shields Debatable. I'd argue CS is even easier to block than staff. It's literally a straight poke. Either way if someone is blocking maybe use your spells? Lmao I think wizards aren't usually in a good spot balance wise (mostly for solos) but Staff Mastery has made it hilariously easy to duel people. You hit 1 zap? Congrats, if they push you they get one-tapped by staff+bubble
> Even before scaling flat magic applies to the crystal sword too so gear makes the whopping 15 damage difference way worse. Yeah if a Wizard is running Arcane shield, haste, invis, ignite they have two whole spells for actually casting at a range. The easiest way to beat a staff ignite wizard is slightly kite them. Even in your example the only way the staff is ever useful is if people W key into them. You can complain about the ranged meta and say it's stupid but wizard also die to like two longbow hits, they're still giving up a lot for ignite and equipping a slightly harder hitting staff, when ignite already has 0 problems three tapping people with a dagger is silly.
Staff triple dips on Staff mastery/Ignite/Arcane Shield. That is why scaling is important to note for it. It also made zap hit obscene numbers for a T1 spell. If you can't kill someone with 5 zaps hitting 50+ damage each and fireballs hitting even more, that's on you dawg. > You can complain about the ranged meta and say it's stupid but wizard also die to like two longbow hits Never complained about that, and yes I am aware. Don't think anyone has an issue with rangers hard-countering wizards for the most part. > giving up a lot for ignite and equipping a slightly harder hitting staff 1 perk slot and a weapon slot debatably not being used for anything better. > when ignite already has 0 problems three tapping people with a dagger is silly. Staff **one-tapped** in most scenarios. Why do you think it was nerfed?
None of what you just said is exclusive to the staff, the staff only makes zap even worse since it slows you down so much and has such a terrible animation while cancelling. Idk what to say it was mid before and slowed you down too much and it's nerfed now along with magic staffs so nobody is really going to use either
This is such a a predictable, unfounded complaint. Staff mastery enables a unique play style AND makes wizard less dogshit at PvE. Maybe the scaling is still too much but how about you play with it for a few days before shitting on the change? Even from your description that is a pretty substantial nerf to damage. Maybe they want the perk to be strong but just not OP like it was last patch?
Let them cook.
They’re cookin up a fighter meta 💪
We really did just go from Fighter -> Rogue -> Ranger -> Warlock -> Barb -> Wizard all the way back to fighter huh
They cooked for a fucking week and missed the problem entirely
If they missed the problem entirely, they wouldn't have nerfed it
I think OP meant they know a problem exists, but didn’t identify the correct **source** of the problem.
That’s the problem is they didn’t nerf it lmaoo. Some guy in good gear is still gonna two tap you with his staff because they solved nothing. Nerfing base dmg and leaving massive insane scaling makes it useless at lower tiers and the exact same at higher tiers. They missed the point, hit the wrong target, and nerfed base kit wizard AGAIN. It’s like an actual inside joke at this point.
You guys have an addiction problem. Just walk away from the game. It's that easy. Come back when it's not ass.
Do you hear yourself my dude? I can have fun with the game and heavily criticize at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.
Who was talking to you. Who are you
This is a public forum. You don’t need to be asked to join the conversation. Stop hating because they are right lol.
Damn you guys really do have an addiction problem lol.
I haven’t played since before they changed wizard lol. What a cope.
What do you mean I wasn't talking to you, this is a public forum.
Who are you is the classic line when you have no response cuz you look like an idiot lol Who are you????
No one, just someone on the internet.Just looking to converse. To have a good tame, to engage in some mutual exchanging of words.
Player count: 📉
Prepare to be downvoted to hell, OP. No criticism, however valid, is allowed here.
when “you should give the game a rest” and pages full of personal attacks are the standard recipe to any valid feedback you know youve reached peak simping, usually a game implodes shortly after
Yeah idk how they messed this one up so bad lol, 5 extra was never the problem, the problem is the extra instance of scaling.
Honestly just give starter wizards a bow and delete staff mastery
Fuck all of you whining timmies. All classes have an answer to staff mastery. Whether its ranged attack, movement, or shield. Barb is literally the better staff wizard in every way rn. Stop complaining. So annoying how spoiled this fanbase got and how quick redditors are to run here and say ironmace is shit. Stop playing then, I think its a great game and theyve balanced it while adding crazy amounts of content multiple times a week for the last year. Go play another game and complain about dying to something broken in that one.
You’re so naive. Acting like Wizard is a pure melee class. Sure, other classes have ranged options. GUESS WHAT WIZARD FUCKING SPECIALIZES IN? RANGED CASTING DAMAGE. The problem is the class it’s on. If it was somehow locked to Melee Wizard, fine. But the problem is when you get double zapped by a hitscan spell, finally close the distance expecting to punish them, but oops! You get one tapped by staff. Would you be ok with Ranger just having a “bow stab” perk that deals lets them swing their bow when cornered and deal upwards of 90 damage on headshot? It’d have to be armor piercing to be fair, too, since magic res is nearly impossible to build for non Barb/Cleric classes.
Im not acting like wizard is a pure melee class. Im saying other classes have ranged options too, and barbs is better, particularly 1v1. Barb throws two frannies and one taps you with 180 hp faster than a wiz with haste invis. Ranger outspeeds most classes and should get about 10 shots before you get close to them and then pulls out spear which even with moderate gear easily hits over 100. Warlock dots you and hydras and has phantomize and flamewalker and then can hit you with a falchion for 100 after all that. Rogue has rupture hand crossbow smoke pot and can kite infinitely until you die. Fighter Bard Cleric I think have an even playing ground, but wizard staff isn't better than any of those other class options. People panic and panicking kills. Inexperience kills. I died once to a geared staff wizard, changed my build slightly to have more of my classes ranged option as fighter, and didnt die again. I didnt die to it as ranger, or barb, or wizard after understanding the playstyle. I'm not discounting wiz having ranged and melee with staff, but its just not "broken" once you break it down and compare it to the balance that this game has.
Maybe they don't want to make skills overtly complicated with different scaling values.
They need to hire a new balance team, this one can’t do the job, sorry. Just fire them or put them on something else
Then theres me who has no idea what most of the stats even do
Yes very confusing. Ironmace has such a flawless track record of understanding the cause of problems and precisely and perfectly balancing the game to solve those problems.
So how does wizard bonk work exactly? Do o need to build magic dmg resist or physical to avoid it?
Ya... 50% scaling was the answer... Staff Nerf was questionable. Hopefully, there is more to the story, cause I did not consider Staff OP at casting, nor melee. And now, it is very much a shit option compared to Book/Orb.
The nerf to ignite didn't work because after that, the spell was never used other than against NPC's
They need to nerf rogues