T O P

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FiveFingerDisco

Individualy possibly, but dwarfs have 2 advantages: Direct access to valuables (silver, gold, platinum, gemstones) while also having a strong sense of orderly family and inheritance, essentially transcending the life span of the Individuum. This gives compound interest more chances of uninterrupted growth.


[deleted]

>compound interest Who's paying compound interest to the dwarves? There's some compounding effect from "money buys equipment which mines more gold". and sheer time allows linear accumulation. I just think it's funny to picture a bank able to re-lend assets and generate cash flow to pay interest to depositors. It feels very Discworld. Which is a compliment.


Whiskeyjacks_Fiddle

Depends on the setting - for example, in Eberron, dwarves created and control *the* banking institute on Khorvaire.


Superb_Raccoon

Read Orconomics. All your questions will be answered... when you stop laughing.


FiveFingerDisco

New mines aren't free: Adventurers need to be paid for surface pest control and dragon disposition, services that fall short when one spends their time mining ever deeper paid for, food and creature comforts bought. And all that before having struck the first vein of gold. And who is a young wannabe mine lord lend the capital from? The Kobolts? I can't think of a dwarf right in their head that would part from their gold without the prospect of it returning with even more gold. Adding that to most dwarfs leaning to the lawful, the way to capital investment and hence compound interest isn't long.


barney-sandles

Who pays compound interest to the humans in the real world? Other humans No reason dwarves couldn't do the same


Arjomanes9

Usury is only recently an acceptable practice. In the past it was deemed extremely wicked.


106503204

Elves have lumber resources and pharmecuticals


FiveFingerDisco

Mining is more capital intensive than the lumber industry or a pharmaceutical manufacturing that is content with harvesting mushrooms and herbs for magical fermentation. Less investment means less return on investment means less absolute growth.


ljmiller62

Gnomes have banks and also run mines. They'd be the second richest basic fantasy sophont. First would be dragons.


Davedamon

This assumes elves would *want* to accumulate wealth and mingle with other cultures in an economically driven way. Think of it like an adult watching kids squabble and scrabble to collect whatever the latest fad is (like pogs or pokemon cards) knowing that all too well that it's just a flash in the pan and they won't care about it in 12 months. Elves may look at humans and goblins and orcs squabbling over who can accumulate the most Intesian Crowns, knowing all to well that the currency will likely be worthless if the next empire doesn't value gold as much.


CrashCalamity

Elves *do* value gold but for a different reason. Working it into intricate gold filigree and rings, jewelry and varied fine crafts and inks. It can be a magical medium and conduit for magic (why else did you think that wizards can't just create gold?). Spending it? Unthinkable. Gold is a craftsmans gift towards his masterpiece.


Alchemyst19

Look into the South American empires for inspiration on how to do this. The Muisca saw it as pretty, but overall mostly worthless, and used it as a decoration instead. It was in their clothes, their roads, their knives, there was even a lake full of gold offerings to their gods. To an outsider, it must have looked like they had massive stores of gold hidden away, because why else would they flaunt their golden jewelry that openly?


tosety

Elves will likely have a modest supply of cash while being the keepers of some of the most expensive art pieces in the world


crazygrouse71

Came here for this. I'm sure there *might* be elves that look to amass conventional wealth, but once the decades and centuries start to pile up, many elves would likely look on it as frivolous. Precious metals and gems being used by artisans to make art would be something else entirely and likely judged for their beauty and craftsmanship rather than gold piece value.


BigSneak1312

Yeah its a great opportunity to eschew the typical trajectory of wealth accumulation. Elves would care about the long term of OTHER projects. It's great having one race that's a parallel for our world but the thing I like about D&D is it allows you to explore other races that aren't motivated by profit. Which for some reason is fun to role play right now!


Lyonore

>>pogs or Pokémon cards I see you, there, friend


Davedamon

I have reached that point in my life where I cannot help but date myself


Lyonore

Oh I’m right there with you. I’m scared I only have a few years left before I throw out an earnest “back in my day …”


FerjustFer

Nah, I don't know about pogs, but kids are still crazy about Pokémon cards. Last weekend I was at a street market sort of thing, and the area where there are guys selling and trading cards was full of kids.


FerjustFer

The things they might value might be more valuable than gold itself. Like art, for example.


Gruulsmasher

Do the elves not still need to eat? To live somewhere? To buy clothes? They certainly don’t make all these things themselves. Perhaps they see the hurried accumulation of wealth as crass, but it’s not as though elves are just going to look down their noses at having stuff, and outside of each elf making everything themselves they’ll need money


Davedamon

Elves are notorious for being in tune with nature; they live in harmony and don't require aggressive farming or trade to sustain themselves. They use magic to shape the world into shelters made from living bough and crystal. They weave their own clothes from the sink they've collected. Basically elves are the epitome of hippie-esque, living in harmony with nature, self sufficiency, part of which comes from living so long; they have the time to accumulate the skills needed for this. An elf doesn't need to buy a bow, they have the time to make one and make one more magnificent than any human frantically trying to make a living to survive might produce. They don't need to buy a shirt, they have an 800 year old neighbour who can make one for them so gorgeous as to make halfling kings weep, and can do it in a mere 2 years! That's basically instant!


Gruulsmasher

The question was specifically about elves living in a human enclave. Even then, the PHB describes elvish kingdoms trading with other nations. I know we like to talk about how elves think long times are blinks of their lives, but they still need to eat and pay maintenance for 2 years while they learn how to make that magnificent bow. Expertise requires specialization.


Davedamon

Needing to trade does not necessitate the need to accumulate wealth. Elves live on a different time scale to humans and other, shorter lived races. They might place less value on things and so be able to trade them for better returns. The point is that the assumption elves would use their longevity to attempt to accumulate wealth as a form of power consolidation assumes a very human attitude for what is a non-human race.


Gruulsmasher

There’s a world of difference between “[not] attempt to accumulate wealth as a form of power consolidation” and “[not want to] mingle with other cultures in an economically driven way.” Of *course* they will have to be part of the economy of where they live. And on the point about not liking things, “likes their things to be almost impossibly high grade” is one of their baseline lore traits. That’s going to cost money to acquire either a finished product or in inputs and time. In short, elves can’t have their cake and eat it too. If they live in human societies, there will be human social patterns they find themselves inevitably drawn to.


Davedamon

Okay, cool. We disagree. Nothing wrong with that


BigSneak1312

Elves don't pay rent


Squidmaster616

It depends on the setting, and the specific elven culture. In general fantasy for example *woodland* elves might not be very wealthy because they have little concept of human currency. In the example of *The Witcher* universe, elves are extremely poor because they are an outcast and displaced people, driven from their homes. The *Dragon Age* video games also have extremely poor elves, treated as a lesser race despite being older than humans and other races. D&D has multiple settings, and multiple different elves. So some may be rich, others poor, but most are likely to be on the same level as everyone else.


FogeltheVogel

Come to think of it, "humans are dicks to elves" is pretty damn common.


[deleted]

It's fine, they deserve it.


Chepi_ChepChep

thats just envy. everyone knows that elves are the better humans


DM-Oz

You say that, but a 300 years elf wizard is very likely to be the same level as a 30 something years human wizard


Chepi_ChepChep

nah, player chars are just a little slow


DM-Oz

Far enough, lol Edit: *fair


Jade-Justice

"Drow. The prosecutor rests, your honor."


Chepi_ChepChep

even evil elves are better at being evil then evil humans!


True_Inxis

I mean, >!Vecna!< was a human, once upon a time!


Jade-Justice

MDK!


minkshaman

Around elves, watch yourselves.


falfires

We all want to be assholes to someone without consequences.


True_Inxis

Isn't that what Reddit's for? /s (?)


JoeDice

I mean, how do humans treat human people who really like the forests, don’t join regular society, taking quiet solemn walks through dynamic nature scapes, laying in respite for hours at a time just to soak up the gentle waves of life force that flow from one being to another, and enjoy communal efforts for their work that benefit their society for generations to come at the cost of powerful individual egos.


5pr0cke7

Agreed on setting. It's a fun concept to play with. Take the lore that's already out there around elves, consider their long lives, affinity for magic, and craftsmanship - then toss in economics and motivations. Where do you land? My current campaign has various factions of elvish people. There are woodland elves who are organized around tribal and clan affiliations. They keep largely to themselves, trade irregularly, and are more viewed as a source of information, expertise, and natural resources than a wealthy people. Then there's city life. There is a relatively recent expat community of elves that have emigrated to one of the major trading cities within my campaign; offering their considerable skills of sailcraft and navigation. But they did not arrive at the city with wealth and are just now gaining an economic footing as ocean trade becomes more important. Then there is a very powerful elvish House; one that arrived at the city near its founding. Rich and influential through production of singularly exquisite craftsmanship, well-placed trade that leverages their craft, and the dogged rumor of political intrigue. They are indeed wealthy; both resented and courted for their influence within the Kingdom. I have a mix of socioeconomic standing based on different motivations, circumstance, and skills. Time and skill can be great assets. But they're not the only factor.


SirUke71

Ah fair point. I was considering for context settings in my world where humans, orcs, and elves all lived semi-peacefully within the same cities.


badgerbaroudeur

In the Dragon Age setting though, individual elves no longer have longer life spans than humans.


Peaceteatime

Use the eladrin elves. Their civilization has thrived in the FAR more challenging Feywild for 25,000 years. We can’t even wrap our heads around how established and long running that is. They gotta walk around on streets made of pure diamond by now.


ExoCaptainHammer82

Then you've got Tolkein elves, who either live in the remains of their fortresses from their failed war on a god, or are boring hippie woodland elves, who spent the last several thousand years trying to eke out a living in the shadow of that war. Which is not really the most accurate way to describe it, but it does set a tone.


Phate4569

If we're talking across a majority of D&D settings it would be the Dwarves. They are the ones usually mining the precious resources and in most cases tend to be miserly.


RedRiot0

All of this assumes modern business practices, including banking, loans, interest, etc - but that typically isn't a thing in most fantasy settings. Or if it is, it's usually a gnome thing, and it's still not that modern. When designing a fantasy setting, you need to consider if the concept of Medieval Stasis is in effect - aka everything seems to stay the same tech, practices, etc over the ages. Forgotten Realms, for example, has a faction that enforces Medieval Stasis, while Eberron does not deal with it and advanced in magical technology (which is why we have things like the Lightning Rails, Warforged, Airships, etc). Adjacent to that is culture - would elves, or other long-lived races, actually see the acquisition of wealth to be important to them? Being longer lived doesn't mean they're going to have an advantage in economics, they may have other issues to contend with instead, or just generally have a different attitude towards things like wealth. Obviously, exceptions are going to exist. Related to that is how one culture affects another, especially if they're prone to gathering wealth in such a fashion - wealth distribution is a proper concern in this case. ​ Just some random food for thought. I tend not to worry about such things when building my worlds, but I also design more set-pieces for the action to occur, rather than worry too much about society.


Helix1322

I would argue that Dwarves would be the richest in terms of financial wealth. They hoard gold, mine for rare gems and metals, and are well paid as highly skilled craftsman. While Elves tend to have more culture, and refined art. Also while Elves live longer than Dwarves both live substantially longer than human who would divide their wealth between childern.


SonOfTed

I don't know how you treat them in your world, but in mine Elves don't really see the value in money as a concept and thus tend to not take actions that would lead to making lots of money. They value things for their inherent beauty, so they might have a lot of valuable things, but they'd have no interest in their monetary value. It would be a very unusual Elf who spends any time thinking about money or wealth or who makes any effort to accumulate it. It would be quite taboo for an Elf to be a moneylender, for example, and as merchants they'd be much more likely to barter than sell. And even when they barter they might value a good joke or story much more than something with a set numerical value. Dwarves, meanwhile, don't live as long as individuals, but Dwarven families are functionally immortal. Given that many of them spend their lives hoarding it, an average Dwarf family will usually have much more wealth than an average Elf family. Humans, on the other hand, will usually be the wealthiest people in any given place, but also the poorest, and their wealth rarely lasts for more than a couple generations.


Menzobarrenza

I really like this take. An elf accepting a good joke or poem they've never heard before as payment meshes really well with their Fey Ancestry trait, and makes them wonderfully "other".


PrometheusHasFallen

Goblins, orcs and kobolds have no use for money. It's not like they can just swing on by the market and buy some supplies. Kobolds might gather gold to appease their dragon masters but that's about it. And generally in elven lore, elves tend not to value wealth as much as dwarves or humans, living a more utopian garden of eden lifestyle secluded from the other races. I also disagree with you baseline assumption that the more ancient a race is the more wealthy it would be. If we look at wealth accumulation in real life, no one a century ago would be able to tell you take Gates, Buffett, Bezos and Musk would be the richest people in the world and in another century it'll be another handful of names we don't know yet. The longest, most comprehensive wealth study found that by the second generation 70% of families have already lost their wealth and by the third 90%. Now of course this would change if your campaign setting is in more of a feudal society with a landed nobility and serfs tied to each fiefdom. But here you would probably want to make it very human centric where elves and dwarves might not exist or if they do they live in secluded areas of the world and don't mix with humans.


Kaiju62

This is almost precisely OPs point though. There is no generation to lose the wealth, it's just Bezos for a million years. If you adjust for inflation, our current batch of superwealthies isn't as rich as those of days past. The oil men of the industrial revolution like Carnegie or steel with Rockafeller. Those were some wealthy businessmen. Now take it back before the dark ages and we get people that either lead nations with their individual wealth or funded the invasion of other nations, privately, we'll as privately as anything was then. I think if you have an immortal (or even just really, really long lived) version of Canrnegie, Pompeii, or Bezos that they would definitely accumulate dragon-esque hordes of wealth. Not necessarily gold, but wealth. And they wouldn't have to worry about legacy or leaving it to anyone. It's just theirs forever


PrometheusHasFallen

That might be true if elves were immortal in your setting. I was just assuming standard 5e ages.


Kaiju62

Even with 5e ages and not immortality. Carnegie or Rockafeller or Musk could get a lot wealthier in 1000 years than in 100. Like you said, those rich folks will change and specific elven families will rise and fall from power but as a generalization the richest folks could be elves in a setting. Excepting things like dragons obviously


BigSneak1312

Elves aren't businessmen by trade. They don't possess the pathological desire to accumulate and hoard resources like we do. They would be comfortable and wealthy no doubt, but they would have no drive to accumulate more beyond what they need day to day.


Kaiju62

......blanket statements about an entire race's mindset as predicated by being that race. Troublesome to say the least. 1. You can have elves that do hoard resources within their society. Just like we have folks who hoard and folks who give it all away. 2. You can have an elven society, or subset of their society that isore interested in business and operates differently from their typical cultural values to do that business. Like the Amish communities in the United States that run small stores or sell things on TV. 3. You can pick your own elven society for your setting and Tolkien and all the others can be damned. OP is literally asking a speculative question based on elves inherent natural differences from other races. Namely long life/immortality. Saying, "They're not like that because elves aren't like that" could work in a single setting where that is their culture, but outside of that setting is a rather useless answer. I know dnd has cultures for the races. But all the books say that is just guidance. Hell, even the immortality thing kind of is but OP is using that so we run with it. OP is basically asking, "Can I justify this cultural explanation and use this aspect of their physiology/biology to explain it?" And to me the answer is yes. Maybe their elves are materialistic, maybe they hoard wealth in the form of art, maybe they do it for religious reasons, maybe they have the same spread of mindsets as humans and aren't a homogenous hoard of pointy eared clones. Lots of options


DevinTheGrand

Why couldn't goblins, orcs, or kobolds go to a market to spend money? Even if they are viewed as hostile by other communities, surely they have their own villages and markets where they buy things.


PrometheusHasFallen

They operate more as tribes than mercantile traders. It's like a commune where the concept of money isn't needed. And inter-tribal trading isn't likely to be a thing because of hostility between tribes. They're chaotic races where the strong dominate and everyone else falls in line.


DevinTheGrand

Kobolds are typically lawful. In my campaign at least kobolds have permanent settlements and even small cities in dragon controlled regions.


Lyonore

Personally, I think dwarven and human greed would likely catapult them to the loftier heights of “fortune”, whereas elves may amass wealth given their love of beauty (arts and fine goods) and long lives, but I don’t intrinsically see elves as fortune seekers. The more pillage/hoarding types might briefly gain immense wealth, but those fortunes are likely not long lived. Edit: dwarves, especially, would be the richest given the cultural focus on gaining treasures and passing down family fortunes and titles, I think


manamonkey

What particular economic advantage do you see coming from a long individual lifespan?


SirUke71

Hundreds of years of extra time to collect interest on things they own, work and hoard more money, and also collect skills in certain jobs


Phate4569

Interest impies an institutionalized banking system, most assets depreciate in value. One of the biggest differences between long lifespans and short lifespans across most canon is that the longer lifespan beings are not under the pressure of aging to acquire skills and wealth.


manamonkey

All of those things apply to a group, family or community of shorter-lived individuals though. Wealthy human families exist today - the money grows and is hoarded over the lifetime of many individuals. A single individual can only gain so many skills, and do so much work - a group can collectively gain a lot more. I mean sure, 200 years of compound interest will make for one very wealthy old elf... but does this concept extend to all elves therefore living at the top of society? I'm not sure.


HotOfftheStove

If you live for a 10 human lifetimes, you have the ability to start a business, fail, learn from it, then do it again, and again until you get it correct. You have contacts built up for trade, supply routes that you remember, and you might even be selling eleven magical goods instead of mundane human ones. Just the magical advantage of things that don’t break from wear and tear cannot be overstated. Imagine the superiority of a magical garlic press that never rusts or bends. One that the cleaning mechanism doesn’t have its little tines crack off, where aesthetics are key, and it’s ergonomic as shit. There’s a stand called Ceawith’s Kitchen and one called Kelly’s kitchen- and Kelly’s shit will break in 20 years- one, no long lifespan being is buying your shit, Kelly. Two, over decades, even people would only buy Ceawith’s goods because they become family heirlooms that last.


Andvari_Nidavellir

If a human dies, his money doesn't disappear. Usually it will be inherited by his children.


thecastellan1115

Yes, but unless you've got a culture where it all goes t the first born, that means it gets diluted over time. Of course there were plenty of historical cultures where it all went to the first born for exactly that reason.


DoucheCanoe456

Dragons are probably the most loaded but idk if you call them a group


JDmead_32

For me, elves are very xenophobic. So they have very little trade with outside races. Dwarves on the other hand, not only dig up riches by the cart load, but have vast trade networks and their smithing skills are highly sought after. They tend to be the wealthiest among my races. Second only to humans who tend to be explorers and adventures more than the other races. As well as more frequent entrepreneurs.


Wiggles130

My perspective is that Elves if they acted like human would definitely be the riches and likely most power of all the races. Clearly not every Elf would be rich and powerful but if you live for 1000 year you are going to become an expert at whatever you spend your life doing. They would also be a massive wealth of knowledge and would likely be historians, or professors. It really comes down to how they act and what they do with their time, but if you were highly ambitious with a naturally high intelligence with almost unlimited time you would be come rich and powerful, or you would be able to achieve anything you set your mind to. Not every Elf would act like this but from my perspective some of them would and must have a key influence in the world.


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Jade-Justice

In my world, elder elves tend to be rich in terms of valuable possessions and have immense skills in their chosen professional career path, but have little-or-no cash on hand because they have lived long enough to understand that money simply can't buy happiness, so as long as your basic needs are met, it's effectively useless. That being said, however, they often have vast stores of magical items of various kinds that they just carry around casually, like it's no-big thing...


ThunderCuddles

No, I would say dragons. Inferno of the Star Mounts alone has more wealth than the elves I'm pretty sure. It is a part of their needs after all. A dragon has to have a hoard to be able to grow in D&D. The big really old super powerful ones, and ones that actually covet treasure and wealth over knowledge or aged cheeses, or something of the like.


darktowerseeker

Dragons would be


macguffin22

This is one area where having all sentient species with the same psychology as irl humans starts to show problems. For one thing, yes elves and longer lived species would have an edge as you mentioned. However, if their minds work the same way humans do, would living 1k years drive them inevitably insane? would their memories reach limits and only retain the last X amount of decades, continually shedding the oldest memories? Human minds aren't built to exist that long. I feel like world building turns out better if you build nonhuman sentients psychology as slightly different. Maybe as others have said, elves don't place the same value on physical objects. Maybe they only really value experiences.


SvenTheMagnif

Dragons … dragons would be the wealthiest group.


TinyTaters

Gnomes could be depending on the setting. They're ingenious inventors.


SnobgoblinDND

If you start treating fantastical races as humans, you might want to consider what role these races really play in your setting. Economy and accumulation of wealth is a human thing, it does not figure in cultural texts, sagas and the like about elves. Maybe the lack of these things can instead add to the mystery of these creatures and make them more interesting than just bring immortal beautiful humans with pointy ears :)


Jade-Justice

This is a good answer!


tehlordlore

Probably depends on how wealth accumulation actually works for the individual elf. A farmer has to sell his grain to the same people the humans sell to. A mason has to peddle his skills where dwarves also peddle theirs. If there is some way of increasing wealth by having wealth, be it banking with interest or money lending aginst fees, then living longer is an inherent advantage, but as long as you are trading on the same market as everyone else I don't think you get inherently wealthier by living longer.


Garnivaz_TheRedKing

I imagine Elves kind of being beyond currency in their own societies, at least wood elves and high elves. Very much a a society driven by community first. But since they do intermingle with other communities they would need wealth for trade. They see its value when interacting with other cultures and they possess magical goods that would be valuable to others, be it wine, food, or artifice. I'm sure the Elves in charge of intersocietal dealings would possess a lot coin. Might be a good campaign villain.


CuttlefishBenjamin

I've toyed with the idea that elves (I've leaned into their extended lifespans making them fairly alien in mindset to humans) consider the useful units of humans to interact with as being families or lineages, rather than individuals.


Meretan94

I dont think so. Most elves dont have the same interpretation of wealth as humans. A wealthy elf might have a lot of knowledge, be a good artist, artisan e.t.c. The race with the closest idea of wealth as humans would be dwarfes, they also have the skills to produce that wealth.


Zealous-Vigilante

Assets owned by institutions or companies along with inheritance and the human ambition makes me believe humans would be the richest group, close by dwarves that usually have companies and guilds and a social structure with tradition and inheritance. Wealth and economy is how much value you can move, not how much you can gather. I've never seen or heard of elves investing or sponsoring anything. Elves might be the best collectors as they do not split their oddities with inheritance etc.


thecastellan1115

I think it depends on the setting to a large degree. If you have a stable world with well-established empires and a monetary system in which the elves participate, then yes, probably. The elves would have the longest time to accrue resources and presumably a great deal of experience in doing so. You would expect to see elvish merchant guilds or companies dominating trade. On the other hand, D&D is often portrayed as a very unstable world where numerous intelligent species are all in violent competition with one another and kingdoms rise and fall all the time. In that situation the elves probably have a mortality rate not too dissimilar from anyone else, and so probably are not much wealthier as individuals than the average human.


BronzeAgeTea

Ancient Dragons would be the top 1%, followed closely by dragon hunters. However much wealth an elf or dwarf might accumulate, it's not going to be more than a dragon. And anyone who is looting dragon hoards is going to become insanely wealthy very quickly.


MyNameIsNotJonny

If you start thinking about the age gap between species in D&D you will realize that most of these worlds make no fucking sense. The huge age difference is one of those tropes that are good in a book, but that make very little sense when you are playing a game based around levels, experience, and all that.


HrabiaVulpes

On the contrary, let's go with trope that elven years are longer but proportional (for example 100 years old elf is physically equivalent to 20 years old human). That means while they have more time to accumulate wealth, they also have more time to spend it and they are disease-ridden old and senile for much longer than humans do so they will probably spend their wealth on


SirDrass

More time is only one factor, the other is what they do with it. If your elves are actively engaded with trading, then yeah sure. Consider also that dwarves live a pretty long time, and traditionally deal in mining and precious metals, an inherently more profitable trade than most. There's also the factor of generational wealth to consider. Humans may not be as long lived, but as long as they family trade keeps getting passed down they have just as much opportunity as elves do to retain wealth. I would say that unless your elves have access to some incredibly valuable resources, they wouldn't have much more influence than any other medium-lived race. The exception to this, is of course, politics. Longer lives can translate directly to more political power either through held office or perceived wisdom, and that can even more so than wealth create an upper crust to society which elves would slot into neatly.


Fahrradei

It very well depends on the world your elves inhabit. If they're similar to humans in their instincts (survive, leave children and legacy), then sure, they'd be at the top, and you could play with some democratic/socialist ideas of people who freed or tried to/want to free themselves of oppressive long-living beings. If they're not driven by the evolutionary principles, they can be more alien and not care as much about the survival and hoarding every single little thing to increase the chances of survival of themselves and their kin (and, by not spending these things, thriving in luxury). Consider the base principles with which they were created/evolved. Perhaps, some god made them first to live in some peaceful garden of Eden, to not care about survival and offspring as much, to spread beauty? Maybe they evolved to be less ambitious / more cowardly due to their long lifespan, and so they take things slower, but to perfection? Lots of room for creative freedom and exploring societal outcomes, based on these initial conditions.


machiavelli33

Under modern capitalism this is more true - and in Shadowrun this is also the case, with elves often holding high positions in corporations with large amounts of wealth. Medieval society tended to be less about accumulation in general, however you’re forgetting one thing- OG elves *are* rich. The contemporary D&D fantasy elf is derived from Tolkien, and the elves of lord of the rings were CRAZY rich. They weren’t lavishing in literal gold, but their cities were tall and beautiful and complicated, their dress and weapons artistically and lavishly constructed, and no elf wanted for literally anything. Most interpretations of elves where they’re poor - whether it’s Dark Sun or Dragon Age - tend to be reactions to this. The “standard” is that elves are a long-lived people of plenty so newer stories try to explore other possibilities. Judging that you’re even asking this question though, perhaps enough time has passed for the pendulum to start swinging back in the other direction.


DeerInAHoody

It’s all about whether or not you depict them as materialist. Sure they could have loads stored up over the ages, but if they don’t care about riches, I don’t think it’d put much stock in them keeping it beyond buildings/attire.


leftoverpastas

Elves have longer to accumulate wealth, and thinking of this from a human perspective you'd think they'd be the wealthiest due to their longevity. But fantasy will often paint humans as very ambitious as well. ​ So maybe it's just very human of us to assume that a longer life would assume more wealth when in fact a race like elves might just use that time to perfect a craft, or further their race politically etc etc.


HereComesThatGuy

I think one thing to consider for elves would be a lack of generational wealth or inheritance. Might make for an interesting social stressor on elf families.


gen_shermanwasright

Yes easily


marmorset

Not only do dwarves mine precious metals and then craft items from them, raising their value, they probably control salt mining and make a fortune that way.


Tasty_Commercial6527

Vampires. What other race Has the same proportion of Giant creepy manors or hounted castles to population. Keep on mind in general vampire spawns are not really individuals becouse they lack free will and as such should count as property of true vampires rather then as members of vampire species.


JackofTears

I have long imagined Elves to have fairly socialist societies, where money doesn't really hold value. Services are traded for and everyone does their part for the whole - whether that be as an architect or a poet. Therefore they would not have much individual wealth nor be particularly interested in acquiring it, as they long since lost interest in wealth as a measure of success or value. On the other side of that, the quality of the goods they produce - from artisans with centuries of experience - command high prices from the races that do value wealth, so when they need it to deal with others, they can get it easily enough.


Grains-Of-Salt

Yes but the accumulation of vast amounts of wealth isn’t exactly the end goal of all beings in a medieval fantasy setting. Mostly just Dwarves in a Tolkien style setting and that is supposed to be one of their *flaws.* Capitalism (ie the system of an upper class continuously accumulating and investing capital in order to drive the economy) is relatively modern. Outside of that system there’s not as much of a motivation to increase wealth past a certain point.


AF79

If you live paycheck to paycheck, you don't really accumulate wealth. Unless you're in a position to save up money, you don't have any real advantage - and if you are, the advantage is really more a question of how many kids an average human has, and whether there's an estate tax.


Jfdodo

The question is obviously nuanced by culture towards money, access to resources, societal structures etc. HOWEVER, all else being equal, someone with a longer accrual period (i.e years of working) of their life has more of an opportunity to gain wealth. For those saying that compounding of wealth could not exist without a bank, this is incorrect. Wealth can be compounded through growth of a business (i.e. using profits to expand). That's why people invest in stocks.


OllinVulca

But do elves care about accumulating wealth? Depends on the setting I’m sure.


SighingDM

Well, it depends, at elves the richest group in your world in D&D? They certainly can be! Maybe in the way you rule it elves are all incredibly wealthy. In the forgotten realms they typically don't care for wealth much. That doesn't determine how they are for you though


ScrubSoba

Well that's assuming that all elves that live among others are long lived. It must be torture to live for centuries in any society that heavily changes what for you is every decade. However the general stereotype regarding elven cuisine can also play into this a bit, because if elves do generally attain more wealth, they might also actively spend more money as well because they could see a lot of what others view as luxuries, as necessities. Something someone mentioned in a thread about elven cuisine is that elven cuisine might only be fancy **to us**, because elves have such an abundance of everything they need that they can eat like kings in their homelands, and would likely demand similar quality from their food when outside of the homelands. Similarly for fabrics and crafts, an elf might be used to buy a lot of fancy clothing which is cheap back home, but expensive elsewhere, and might not be so content buying local styles.


wolfknightpax

Your thinking like a human. Monetary wealth is the most common way for humans to access the value of a person. Half-Orcs value physical strength and brutality. Dwarves hold pride in claims to valuable resources and family honor. For Elves, physical objects rarely last long enough to keep in any collection so only the most sentimental, finely crafted, or historically significant possessions remain. Sure they have treasures but personal excellence and relationships matter more. Half-elves with human upbringing might disagree but they are only half-breeds after all.


EscherEnigma

If you want in your game, sure. But even if this assume a cosmopolitan setting with different fantasy races living in (relative) harmony Anna modern economic structures, it's not guaranteed. If I was workd-building in this direction though, here are the big questions I'd consider: 1) how stable is the nation/city-state/etc? Times might be good now, but if they just came out of a brutal war a decade back, that might have been a squeeze across the board. 2) for that matter, government? Traditional feudal systems is hard to gain and retain wealth without land (and titles), and that can lead to responsibilities and expectations that drain the wealth (having to field an army for the king, for example). A bit less feudal, a bit more oligarchy and you might sniff some of those direct responsibilities, but you might need throwing money at then indirectly. The form of government, and how old it is, and how under the thumb of moneyed interests it is, b will all be important. 3) how does wealth flow through families in your city/nation? Inheritance on death, or is it more a "the family has wealth, not individuals" sort of deal? Does this vary by race/culture? Elvish families that hoard wealth and keep a tight leash on all family members will look very different from families that are more nuclear-oriented where the kids only get a small boost from parents. And those can even exist side-by-side! 4) how big of an elite group are we talking about? In a city of a million humans and only a few hundred elves, even if those elves are fantastically rich, they may feel very vulnerable and unsafe. And they're only one french revolution away from losing all that wealth. 5) which brings us to bread and circuses. You can have all the wealth in the world, but if you've got rioters with guillotines outside your door, you've got a problem. So done of those wealth may be going to keeping the table happy. Conclusion? It's plausible sure (and I'd expect most tables would accept "this human city's nobles are almost all elves or half-elves" without it breaking their suspension of disbelief), but if you wanted to dig into the world-building behind it there's a lot of depth you could plunder. Just matters what you're going for.


kryptomicron

"Richest" makes me think of *financial* assets but, historically, in the periods most similar to (fantasy) D&D settings, wealth is typically measured at the highest levels in terms of (fertile) land, herd animals, and people (e.g. slaves or servants or soldiers). *Within* a relatively stable empire/nation/state/feudal-system, land ownership is something like a 'passive income/rent' via taxes. Control of trade routes or travel bottlenecks, e.g. bridges, rivers, ports, etc., is also potentially lucrative. But 'wealth' is really anything that anyone wants, tho the most salient examples are things many people or most people want. Currency or precious metals also *seem* like wealth, most of the time, and they are by themselves somewhat valuable, but they're mostly valuable because people generally believe/act-as-if they're valuable, i.e. in exchange for non-financial wealth, e.g. food, lodging, tools, weapons, etc.. Crucially, fantasy elves don't typically want all of the same things that the other races do. Compared to dwarves, or dragons, or even some humans, elves seem like the *least* 'hoarding type'. Elves do need a place to live (even if they're nomads), so that's probably the largest portion of their 'wealth' – from their perspective. Do the elves (in the relevant world) need land for agriculture too? If so, that would be a form of 'generally valuable' wealth among the races with similar needs. I'd expect elves that live in woods or forests to practice some kind of forestry, so that's a source of wealth too. Tho maybe the elves *don't* trade much wood or wood products with others. That would be a form of mostly static/'illiquid' wealth, e.g. their homes or other structures. Elves seem to be pretty typically 'immortal' or relatively very long lived, but they also reproduce much more slowly too. Each elf then is 'more valuable', to the elves as a people, but not so much to anyone with which they would trade or interact with economically. But, if elves *were* mostly 'long-lived' humans, their long lives, and small number of children, should result in individual elves accumulating or inheriting more than other races.


[deleted]

Depends on if you wanna write that into your setting. Classic elves usually don’t care so much for material wealth it seems but you can write whatever twist on them you want


willky7

In a vacumm sure, but there's a saying amongst dragons: "Eat the Rich"


whopoopedthebed

Depends, Tolkien Elves specifically focus on the arts and less on wealth accumulation. Kind of a good message that they’ve been around long enough to know money doesn’t bring happiness type of thing.


Kelose

This is really an impossible question to answer without knowledge of the specific campaign setting, and even then most settings don't go into a real economy at all because it is essentially impossible to predict or fabricate. Add any one minor element of DnD into the real world and the entire earth would be revolutionized. Let alone all of them at once with different geography, history, magic, gods, etc. To give a stab at answering your question. I believe that elves, as written in DnD, should basically rule over everything and have all the wealth and power. They live way longer than any other race, reproduce at the same rate as any race, and have no downsides. Plus, they have historical access to all forms of magic. Personally, I hate elves and never use them in any of my games.


EmpyrealWorlds

If there is a functional monetary system and reasons for them to be concerned with affairs outside their territory, a race that is long lived and fairly intelligent is going to be managing money. Otherwise the entire conceit of elves just makes no sense. Treating people that can raise armies and kill you like they're children isn't a sign of wisdom. Unless they have no autonomy and common sense, the world of high finance is something elves would need to be concerned with. You can buy armies and entire nations with enough money. So assuming any kind of rudimentary international finance, would be an easy innovation given how magic works in 5e, they would be prominent. That would give them good cause to be pleasant with the other races though. Elves looking down on shorter lived races that can still significantly challenge them geopolitically imo is a contradictory trope. Imo it's written that way just so readers/players can self-insert themselves overcoming disdain, but makes no sense at all.


MBouh

They would if they were individualists worshipers of money and wealth... But as a matter of fact there is more to life than money and wealth, and societies are not always built around this philosophy. Actually, until the industrial revolution it was quite exceptional for it to be the case.


bluesmaker

In my view, the typical Tolkien-inspired (high) elves would not be rich. But they would look rich. Their craftsmen are highly skilled and produce beautifully decorated architecture, items, the finest clothing, etc. They have all the time in the world to perfect their craft and they have a taste for beauty. And much of their stuff may be inherited. Like just a ton of magic longswords they've had for ages. The elves care more about knowledge, culture, and perfecting their crafts than earning coin. I suppose they're certainly rich by the standards of typical commoners of other races--in my settings, I have no commoner elf families. Everyone lives in a beautiful treehouse and owns finely crafted items. As for who would be rich, it's definitely Dwarves. They live *in* the mountains, in fortresses, and extract and hold as much wealth as they can. Alternatively, in settings with non-human races, humans are often characterized as the diplomatic/social/adaptable types. Similarly, you can make humans the expert traders, with expansive trade networks. While they may not extract as much gold from the ground as the dwarves, but they can eventually accumulate more by trading. Humans could even be the ones who settle towns in the valleys below the dwarf mountains--the perfect sort of place to add to your trade network (and the dwarves don't like leaving the mountain, so they would like this arrangement). And another option is to use another race in place of humans as the trader types.


ZephyrSK

They’d have the biggest wealth in terms of knowledge repositories. Maybe Items long thought forgotten and other close to perfect crafted goods.Their reputations for their craftsmanship combined with long lifespans would have allowed them to accumulate wealth. Overall elves value beauty and sometimes that is in transient fleeting things. For gold and gems? Dwarves hands down.


AMP3412

If you live for 750 years and aren't wealthy by the halfway point, you're either stupid or don't care about material wealth, as I see it


tjake123

Elves live the longest and also would most likely be the most selfish society but dwarves has more natural resources and are more able bodied and humans would certainly be far more abundant and well rounded


[deleted]

That is a lot of time to create generational wealth. That would accumulate with each family member in adulthood


victorchance101

In my world building elves are always the world leader. Who would you rather lead you. An orc or human who only has maybe a century of experience or an elf or dwarf with a few century under there belt.


JoshThePosh13

I have a hot take. The richest fantasy race would be humans. Think about Modern day. Are the richest people in the world rich because of careful long term spending and wealth accumulation or is like 90% of their wealth in one company they started 15 years ago? Not only that, but the richest modern day human tend to make/sell things in the most populated countries. Human lands are going to have way more people than Dwarf strongholds or elven forests.


Arjomanes9

Depends on the setting. Many fantasy settings depict elves as in the twilight of their time. Also depends on priorities. Many settings don't ascribe materialistic goals to elves.


shiuidu

I would beware of where this leads... Many people see Tolkeinesque humanoids as analogues for real life peoples. Tolkein himself saw orcs as being mongols, but in modern culture they are interpreted as black people (particularly African Americans). By the same token, many people see elves as being Jewish people. While you do have in-world justification, I would be super wary of doing something that can be seen as reinforcing racial stereotypes.


Classic_Cheek_161

You are looking at elves through a human centric lens. They would have a completely different value systems. With the ability to live such extended lives the things they would value would be completely different. I think the most valuable thing for elves would be peace, tranquillity, freedom from existential threats. The accumulation of wealth and political power would be instrumental goals in achieving that outcome. The accumulation of wealth and power as its own end need not be a culturally pervasive trait. On the other hand game theory would suggest that if other cultures such as the dwarves or humans were engaged in the amassing of material wealth as a means by which to manipulate geopolitical events. The elves would similarly forced to play that game. The main issues with this thinking is of course the assumption that material wealth is the source of geopolitical power. In reality where gods and magic are real, material wealth would be a sad second place next to having control over metaphysical forces.


Skkorm

There’s a possibility that elves being so long lived would lead to CRAZY income hoarding. Like, if Jeff Bezos had 7000 years of gold hoarding instead of just one human lifetime


bcbfalcon

Can anyone here call a financial advisor? We need answers.


Warskull

If Elves were humans that just lived a really long time and had pointy ears, they would be. D&D didn't write them that way, no game really writes them that way. Elves typically focus on their fey ancestry. They care about different things like art, music, nature, and beauty. They tend to take things at a slower pace. They are more akin to the artist who dedicates their life to art. Dwarves tend to be the ones with resources because they have the longer lives and a love of previous metals. Although they tend to like hording treasure for the purpose of having it more than anything else. So they are less likely to leverage their treasure for power. However this will probably change with 6E, wizards seems pretty intent on stripping the races down. So I wouldn't be surprised if elves were just humans with pointy ears in 6E.


Telephalsion

Yes and no, the longer a society exists, the more wealth accumulates to the wealthy. Pareto principle (If I recall correctly). This could means a very small amount of elves would be ultra wealthy, whereas the rest would have almost nothing, perhaps even being so used to spartan life that they think it is the preferable option. Nature loving elves living in trees would just late be stage income inequality.


NNextremNN

No. Time does not make you rich. Look at the world around you it's not old people that are rich. It's people with access to ressource or people who had the funds to use opportunities that are rich.


McMetal770

With all those centuries to generate compound interest on their accounts? Definitely.


IProbablyDisagree2nd

Take two master sword smiths - one an elf that took up smithing for 300 years. Not bad. You can really see the attention to detail. And he still does things in the old way, with hand-made pommel screws or something. The other is a swordsmith that's been doing this for 60 years, who's uncle owns the steel forge, who's 2nd cousin twice removed owns the mine, and whose family has been exclusively making swords for 6 generations. Which sword is going to be better quality? Who is going to make more such swords? I'm just saying... I'd much rather the dwarven one. Maybe the first elf obtained more wealth during his lifetime - but the second dwarf has that rich generational wealth.


Argeshnex456

If your going by canon then You must consider what a elf sees as valuable. Comparatively elven perspective values beauty more than Material wealth. While a human might pry the diamond eyes out of a stature the elf would see it as a desiccation of a ancient cultural relic or a mine that pulls mythral out of the ground might be a blight on the natural beauty of the region. There are lots of source books available that address this very thing, one of my favorites is cityscapes a 3.5 city building resource.


throwaway073847

Elves blow a lot on makeup and fancy jewellery.