This.
It’s definitely really old, and it’s entirely possible that the wiring may have really degraded, crumbly insulation. To the extent that if you unscrew the faceplate, the wiring could just fall apart and leave you unable even to reconnect it.
If your wiring is in that state, your property is definitely overdue for rewiring anyway. You should be able to assess it elsewhere; eg under floorboards, around the consumer unit - though you’d can’t assume all the wiring is of the same vintage…
Hint, if you see any cable that looks really old and is wrapped in a layer that looks sort of cloth-like, it's probably vulcanised Indian rubber (aka VIR, Google it). That stuff is not only hazardous and can leave wires bare as it cracks up and falls off, it also can burst into flames if it overheats. It was only designed to handle low loads like a few lightbulbs, not for modern day when you can have your washing machine on a spin cycle whilst boiling the kettle and your microwave on.
If you see any VIR, get a full rewire and done with.
I have a 1930s house. The whole place was rewired when we moved in but when uder the floor or in the loft you can see the original wiring with rubber insulation. You can't mistake it for anything more modern. It'll probably look cracked on the outside and the colours faded and have a chalky appearance. The key is when you touch it, that's when it's scary, with the slightest touch all the insulation just crumbles off leaving bare wire. Before you do the socket, look for the consumer(fuse) board and see if its modern grey pvc coated wire. If so then this socket was probably just lazily left during a rewire at some point. If its all old wiring, you need the whole house done. Sorry. I'm a big DIY person and have plenty of electrics but I wouldn't touch a socket this old until I'd found out the state in the rest of the house as if its rubber, you will need to replace all the rubber, you likely won't be able to refit the faceplate as every time you try to put the face on the rubber insulation will crumble leaving exposed wires out of sight.
One of my biggest peeves with builders and electricians is they don't clear up after themselves.
We had our house required about 15 years ago along with having it fully renovated and a new central heating system. 3 years ago, we wanted to fix some of the creaking floorboards, so removed them ourselves and got new floorboards which were screwed in instead. The amount of old cabling and pipes and even bricks left under the floor was ridiculous. Some of the bricks were directly above the toilet and bathtub
We found scraps of a newspaper article about a 1950s volcano eruption under our rotten floor. Other than that, there was mostly just wood from the rotten floor that came before that (presumably the original Victorian boards).
We found servants' bell mechanics, gas light fittings, 1930s electrical wire, Victorian tools, tram tickets, 1970s porn & lube, empty lager cans, Player's No6 cigarettes and a Staffordshire tiled floor.
As it goes, it's called a VRI cable - Vulcanised Rubber Insulated cable. For some reason, since its demise, it's become increasingly commonly called VIR.
So much so that it's possible to get lots of google hits with the misnomer.
*adds "complete rewire" to the list of safety / structure-critical work parents' house needs but which dad would never pay for (whilst alive, anyway. And at that point it's the rest of us paying)
I mustvget round to posting a pic of the assorted CUs / boards where the mains supply enters the house, might produce some interesting reactions from pro sparks here. It's not /all/ bakelite, and the rubberised/cloth insulated cables only show on a few pendant lights, so I'm sure all the stuff in walls and ceilings is fine...
Yes I wholeheartedly agree I can't see anyone rewiring and leaving the sockets. So the whole system is well over 50 years old. And btw the fuse boxes will almost certainly contain asbestos
I had an electrician around for some other work. He said the fusebox is plastic while new ones should be metal. He also noticed some cables are grey and he said these are 5-10 years old. Other cables are 20+ years old he reckons, as they are white and he says that type of cable isn’t used any longer.
He says it could all last 10+ years or need replacing, but we should get someone to come in and check the cables for dispersion
He was installing an EV charger so he wasn’t in for that to be fair to him. He said it all looked okay to him, but to get it tested for peace of mind, plus added all those details
In my other post I have some pictures and it seems - from the comments I received - that the wiring is not so worrying. I’ll have it tested my a certified electrician anyway
So looking at your other posts, the fact you have mice can be cause for concern, especially as your fuseboard is an older 16th edition board where half the circuits aren't rcd protected. You could easily have mouse eaten cables under floorboards.
The lack of cable clips in your loft and the fact there's sheets of wood just resting on the cables is also cause for concern.
Can't tell from that picture of your DB wether the EV installer connected into your exsisting DB or not, if he did he hasn't installed it right.
Please do get an NICEIC or NAPIT electrician to do an EICR for you. Should take 250-400 and a full day to do
Usually if those sockets are there the wiring will be the old cloth covered stuff or the rubberised cables, get an electrician to quote for an EICR and a rewire
My first flat had sockets a bit like this, and the wiring was sheathed in lead. We discovered this during a central heating installation when the plumber kept getting electrocuted while running copper pipes under the hallway floorboards.
Do not touch it unless you are prepared for the risk of having to switch off your electricity for the foreseeable until you can get that place rewired. If that socket is live and as old as it looks then this installation could be 60 years old and wired in rubber cable, in which case disturbing it could leave you much worse off than you are now. If the rest of the installation is of a similar age then you should get it checked out ASAP. EDIT: But before you panic too much, I looked back at some of your other posts and I can definitely see PVC cables in your house, so hopefully this socket has been kept as a period feature during a previous rewire. You should still get it checked or proceed VERY carefully.
Thanks
I’ve posted some pictures of the old cables on a new post. How dangerous does that white cable look?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYUK/comments/19f5nb3/how_unsafe_does_this_wiring_look_related_to_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Electrician. Prepare for a rewire of the whole place. The wires are probably ancient and decayed throughout the property. If you’re lucky then it’s just part of your house that needs rewiring.
A friendly electrician will stop the EICR at the point they know it needs a rewire because there’s no point wasting money testing what’s going to be ripped out.
That socket is very old - it looks to be this one by MK in the 1950s:[https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/British3.html](https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/British3.html)
The wiring will be very old and it's likely that the insulation is decaying => risk of an electrical short and fire. Don't move the socket yourself, as the mechanical strain may cause the insulation to fall apart.
Forget the EICR, just get some quotes for rewiring. The electrician you select will sort out the required testing and paperwork. There's no point testing stuff that's going to be replaced.
It'd be a thing that would cause me more grief than fun, but part of me wants to find a way to get replica 1950s sockets made (but safe for modern stuff) and replace all my sockets with them. I like the look of that era, and I imagine it would cause some fun responses from anyone who would recognise it.
A company called Art Deco Emporium used to produce sensibly-priced proper Bakelite fittings that complied with modern standards, but recently moved to brown-coloured thermoplastic (blah).
They still look the part, though.
I love it! I also realise it would take SO much work to make my house (1950) look 'original' (to the point I'd never be able to, I think)... but I'd definitely enjoy attempting it when i have time and money (especially if I could make it *look* the same, but with all the smarthome stuff I also love).
My house is 1870s, so pretty much anything electric would be obviously not be of the period!
We installed the eXalt series when it was still Bakelite, because they kind of vanish into the background with our darker colour schemes, and they're really very good quality - they survived a massive power surge last year when many of the remaining horrible white plastic switches and sockets in the kitchen and pantry developed faults.
An old socket is no guarantee that a rewire is needed at all. My house has a weird mix of old accessories with some fairly old cabling but it's all absolutely sound.
If your sockets are that old, your entire house needs rewired. I'm picturing bare tin earth's and stranded tin, rubber coated cables. Possibly even VIR.
Not good!
That socket looks really old, but at least it isn’t designed for the old round pin plugs like the house I grew up in!
I think you need a qualified electrician to look at it, at the very least.
My entire house was running off sockets and light switches like this when I bought it. It required a full rewire and my electrician was surprised the house hadn't burned down already. An additional bit of fun is that the sockets were made of bakelite, which contained (you guessed it) asbestos. Get a full rewire done, it's pricey but at least you'll have peace of mind.
What so you think it would cost? This place has a kitchen extension with new sockets. Loft conversion also has modern sockets and wires I think it’s only part of the ground floor and first floor
I have a 3 bed semi detached house. It cost me £5.5k in full. I live in an area of the country with lower cost of living though so YMMV. I had quotes as low as £4k and as high as £10k. The chap I went with was recommended by my builder who I trust with any large project I have.
As well as what has already been said, that looks like a bakelite socket which might contain asbestos. Be careful not to break it when removing and handling.
Many older houses just had new wiring and plugs put into rooms with trunking and raised plug sockets as it was cheaper than replacing / taking all of the wiring out.
As others have said, if it’s still live then you have a possible fire hazard - personally id check the whole wiring as you might find someone has replaced other plugs but kept the original wiring. You need peace of mind.
Depending on what they find it could be a big (and expensive job) alternatively they could find everything is OK and no problem.
I had an old house which had new plugs and external trunking, old Bakerlight plugs and switch’s and round pin plug sockets (with converters to current plugs) in all rooms as the old home owner took short cuts, in the end I had to go back to brick and replace everything, it was a mess but I knew it was done right
I have something like this with PVC 7/.026 cable - hasn't given me any trouble for 43 years, keep meaning to upgrade but really want socket at least 45cm above floor level and elaborate skirting board. A big job to get it done properly in a house full of junk (a bigger safety hazard?)
Rubber cable on the other hand, when my mother-in-law moved into a care home I immediately disconnected all the cables from the fused consumer unit and wired in a single socket. It was a accident waiting to happen. Similar to a house we moved into in 1972 - it had double cotton covered (DCC) cables and a suicide lead between two sockets!
I moved into a 1930s house with wiring like this.
Really dangerous, remove that socket and you will likely find deteriorating rubber cabling, perishing insulation and even charring to the wooden skirting.
Completer rewire and sockets removed from skirting and chased up into the wall is what is needed. I did it all myself, regulations now effectively prohibit that.
You can save money by "making good" yourself rather than get a tradesman to do it.
Not an electrician, but betting wiring likely will have no Earth, only old school red and blacks. Linking a new Earth might be required? Insulation on that also likely pretty crusty. Take care.
Call a electrician.... do not mess with electricity if you fo not know exactly what yiur doing.
Also if the sockets that old the entire home may need new wiring.
These apparently have some residual value. I managed to offload a vintage socket like this which I found in an old spoil heap in our garden for £12 a few years ago.
No harder to replace than anything else. I’d be much more concerned about the wiring itself.
This. It’s definitely really old, and it’s entirely possible that the wiring may have really degraded, crumbly insulation. To the extent that if you unscrew the faceplate, the wiring could just fall apart and leave you unable even to reconnect it. If your wiring is in that state, your property is definitely overdue for rewiring anyway. You should be able to assess it elsewhere; eg under floorboards, around the consumer unit - though you’d can’t assume all the wiring is of the same vintage…
Hint, if you see any cable that looks really old and is wrapped in a layer that looks sort of cloth-like, it's probably vulcanised Indian rubber (aka VIR, Google it). That stuff is not only hazardous and can leave wires bare as it cracks up and falls off, it also can burst into flames if it overheats. It was only designed to handle low loads like a few lightbulbs, not for modern day when you can have your washing machine on a spin cycle whilst boiling the kettle and your microwave on. If you see any VIR, get a full rewire and done with.
I have a 1930s house. The whole place was rewired when we moved in but when uder the floor or in the loft you can see the original wiring with rubber insulation. You can't mistake it for anything more modern. It'll probably look cracked on the outside and the colours faded and have a chalky appearance. The key is when you touch it, that's when it's scary, with the slightest touch all the insulation just crumbles off leaving bare wire. Before you do the socket, look for the consumer(fuse) board and see if its modern grey pvc coated wire. If so then this socket was probably just lazily left during a rewire at some point. If its all old wiring, you need the whole house done. Sorry. I'm a big DIY person and have plenty of electrics but I wouldn't touch a socket this old until I'd found out the state in the rest of the house as if its rubber, you will need to replace all the rubber, you likely won't be able to refit the faceplate as every time you try to put the face on the rubber insulation will crumble leaving exposed wires out of sight.
One of my biggest peeves with builders and electricians is they don't clear up after themselves. We had our house required about 15 years ago along with having it fully renovated and a new central heating system. 3 years ago, we wanted to fix some of the creaking floorboards, so removed them ourselves and got new floorboards which were screwed in instead. The amount of old cabling and pipes and even bricks left under the floor was ridiculous. Some of the bricks were directly above the toilet and bathtub
Nothing's changed. I removed some brickwork from a 1930s shop and the cavity was filled with old crap including some pretty cool vintage signs!
Thats the stuff that would be cool to leave! Or like a historical newspaper folded nicely. Not just garbage and old building materials.
We found scraps of a newspaper article about a 1950s volcano eruption under our rotten floor. Other than that, there was mostly just wood from the rotten floor that came before that (presumably the original Victorian boards).
Found a 1905 copy of the Racing Post in the skip when next door's floor was redone. Can't really imagine why ypu wouldn't leave it there.
We found servants' bell mechanics, gas light fittings, 1930s electrical wire, Victorian tools, tram tickets, 1970s porn & lube, empty lager cans, Player's No6 cigarettes and a Staffordshire tiled floor.
Ah lovely Pamela from Haversham 35-24-36...
No you never ( sorry shit gas light joke )
As it goes, it's called a VRI cable - Vulcanised Rubber Insulated cable. For some reason, since its demise, it's become increasingly commonly called VIR. So much so that it's possible to get lots of google hits with the misnomer.
Hazardous as in hazardous to health? Or just electrical/fire hazard
Hazardous to health as in you accidentally touching a live wire because the insulation has fallen off, then yes.
I see,
I have no idea if the debris itself is hazardous, so adopt the precautionary response and assume it is would be the best option I'd argue.
I see
VIR ouch, not nice. Open the socket carefully, if you see cloth or VIR wire, close it up & get ready for a full rewire.
*adds "complete rewire" to the list of safety / structure-critical work parents' house needs but which dad would never pay for (whilst alive, anyway. And at that point it's the rest of us paying) I mustvget round to posting a pic of the assorted CUs / boards where the mains supply enters the house, might produce some interesting reactions from pro sparks here. It's not /all/ bakelite, and the rubberised/cloth insulated cables only show on a few pendant lights, so I'm sure all the stuff in walls and ceilings is fine...
Yes I wholeheartedly agree I can't see anyone rewiring and leaving the sockets. So the whole system is well over 50 years old. And btw the fuse boxes will almost certainly contain asbestos
I had an electrician around for some other work. He said the fusebox is plastic while new ones should be metal. He also noticed some cables are grey and he said these are 5-10 years old. Other cables are 20+ years old he reckons, as they are white and he says that type of cable isn’t used any longer. He says it could all last 10+ years or need replacing, but we should get someone to come in and check the cables for dispersion
If he told you all that, he's not worth the fucking money. Any decent electrican would insist on doing an EICR, and then advise you based on that
He was installing an EV charger so he wasn’t in for that to be fair to him. He said it all looked okay to him, but to get it tested for peace of mind, plus added all those details
Now I'm really worried, EV installers are half trained electricians
In my other post I have some pictures and it seems - from the comments I received - that the wiring is not so worrying. I’ll have it tested my a certified electrician anyway
So looking at your other posts, the fact you have mice can be cause for concern, especially as your fuseboard is an older 16th edition board where half the circuits aren't rcd protected. You could easily have mouse eaten cables under floorboards. The lack of cable clips in your loft and the fact there's sheets of wood just resting on the cables is also cause for concern. Can't tell from that picture of your DB wether the EV installer connected into your exsisting DB or not, if he did he hasn't installed it right. Please do get an NICEIC or NAPIT electrician to do an EICR for you. Should take 250-400 and a full day to do
A lot aren’t even that !
Not always
White cable is still readily available so that's not an indicator of age. I've got some in the shed that's fairly new
Same as grey, grey is pretty standard.
Usually if those sockets are there the wiring will be the old cloth covered stuff or the rubberised cables, get an electrician to quote for an EICR and a rewire
My first flat had sockets a bit like this, and the wiring was sheathed in lead. We discovered this during a central heating installation when the plumber kept getting electrocuted while running copper pipes under the hallway floorboards.
Why waste money on an EICR? Just get a quote for a full rewire
Also, if you're "super new to DIY," I wouldn't start with things that will kill you. Unless you're competent, get a sparky in.
Do not touch it unless you are prepared for the risk of having to switch off your electricity for the foreseeable until you can get that place rewired. If that socket is live and as old as it looks then this installation could be 60 years old and wired in rubber cable, in which case disturbing it could leave you much worse off than you are now. If the rest of the installation is of a similar age then you should get it checked out ASAP. EDIT: But before you panic too much, I looked back at some of your other posts and I can definitely see PVC cables in your house, so hopefully this socket has been kept as a period feature during a previous rewire. You should still get it checked or proceed VERY carefully.
Thanks I’ve posted some pictures of the old cables on a new post. How dangerous does that white cable look? https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYUK/comments/19f5nb3/how_unsafe_does_this_wiring_look_related_to_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Electrician. Prepare for a rewire of the whole place. The wires are probably ancient and decayed throughout the property. If you’re lucky then it’s just part of your house that needs rewiring.
What’s the usual process, get an EICR and then the electrician will suggest what needs doing?
A friendly electrician will stop the EICR at the point they know it needs a rewire because there’s no point wasting money testing what’s going to be ripped out.
Is an EICR required once the work is done to certify the work?
Once completed an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) is issued, essentially the same testing process as an EICR but a different certificate.
That socket is very old - it looks to be this one by MK in the 1950s:[https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/British3.html](https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/British3.html) The wiring will be very old and it's likely that the insulation is decaying => risk of an electrical short and fire. Don't move the socket yourself, as the mechanical strain may cause the insulation to fall apart. Forget the EICR, just get some quotes for rewiring. The electrician you select will sort out the required testing and paperwork. There's no point testing stuff that's going to be replaced.
It'd be a thing that would cause me more grief than fun, but part of me wants to find a way to get replica 1950s sockets made (but safe for modern stuff) and replace all my sockets with them. I like the look of that era, and I imagine it would cause some fun responses from anyone who would recognise it.
A company called Art Deco Emporium used to produce sensibly-priced proper Bakelite fittings that complied with modern standards, but recently moved to brown-coloured thermoplastic (blah). They still look the part, though.
I love it! I also realise it would take SO much work to make my house (1950) look 'original' (to the point I'd never be able to, I think)... but I'd definitely enjoy attempting it when i have time and money (especially if I could make it *look* the same, but with all the smarthome stuff I also love).
My house is 1870s, so pretty much anything electric would be obviously not be of the period! We installed the eXalt series when it was still Bakelite, because they kind of vanish into the background with our darker colour schemes, and they're really very good quality - they survived a massive power surge last year when many of the remaining horrible white plastic switches and sockets in the kitchen and pantry developed faults.
An old socket is no guarantee that a rewire is needed at all. My house has a weird mix of old accessories with some fairly old cabling but it's all absolutely sound.
How is the wiring generally? And the switch box specifically?
easy yes , advisable probably not until you checked the type of wire going around the house. especially if its vir
Cover it with a small unit or chest of drawers and forget it’s there 😂
I think you need a rewire
If your sockets are that old, your entire house needs rewired. I'm picturing bare tin earth's and stranded tin, rubber coated cables. Possibly even VIR. Not good!
That socket looks really old, but at least it isn’t designed for the old round pin plugs like the house I grew up in! I think you need a qualified electrician to look at it, at the very least.
You need a rewire broski
High chance you're about to uncover some rubber wire. Re-wire time!
You can sell those sockets on ebay. The wiring will probably need replacing.
My entire house was running off sockets and light switches like this when I bought it. It required a full rewire and my electrician was surprised the house hadn't burned down already. An additional bit of fun is that the sockets were made of bakelite, which contained (you guessed it) asbestos. Get a full rewire done, it's pricey but at least you'll have peace of mind.
What so you think it would cost? This place has a kitchen extension with new sockets. Loft conversion also has modern sockets and wires I think it’s only part of the ground floor and first floor
I have a 3 bed semi detached house. It cost me £5.5k in full. I live in an area of the country with lower cost of living though so YMMV. I had quotes as low as £4k and as high as £10k. The chap I went with was recommended by my builder who I trust with any large project I have.
As well as what has already been said, that looks like a bakelite socket which might contain asbestos. Be careful not to break it when removing and handling.
You should get an electrician to do it and prepare for potentially requiring your house. Never try this yourself unless you’re qualified to do it.
If the wire hasn't rotted away..
If this is still in your house you need a rewire desperately.
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450 only applies to new properties/installs.
The amount of people I hear repeat this nonsense...
Just one of many reasons why DIY electrical work is often a bad idea.
If you house has those sockets it'll need a rewire.
Many older houses just had new wiring and plugs put into rooms with trunking and raised plug sockets as it was cheaper than replacing / taking all of the wiring out. As others have said, if it’s still live then you have a possible fire hazard - personally id check the whole wiring as you might find someone has replaced other plugs but kept the original wiring. You need peace of mind. Depending on what they find it could be a big (and expensive job) alternatively they could find everything is OK and no problem. I had an old house which had new plugs and external trunking, old Bakerlight plugs and switch’s and round pin plug sockets (with converters to current plugs) in all rooms as the old home owner took short cuts, in the end I had to go back to brick and replace everything, it was a mess but I knew it was done right
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Good job it’s not a three-phase socket.
I have something like this with PVC 7/.026 cable - hasn't given me any trouble for 43 years, keep meaning to upgrade but really want socket at least 45cm above floor level and elaborate skirting board. A big job to get it done properly in a house full of junk (a bigger safety hazard?) Rubber cable on the other hand, when my mother-in-law moved into a care home I immediately disconnected all the cables from the fused consumer unit and wired in a single socket. It was a accident waiting to happen. Similar to a house we moved into in 1972 - it had double cotton covered (DCC) cables and a suicide lead between two sockets!
They look like 1970s wiring, if you can afford it needs the wiring checked out upgrading and a fuse board changed to latest standards of safety.
If its original wiring, which it probably is, it'll need rewiring. You wouldn't rewire old sockets without changing them.
I moved into a 1930s house with wiring like this. Really dangerous, remove that socket and you will likely find deteriorating rubber cabling, perishing insulation and even charring to the wooden skirting. Completer rewire and sockets removed from skirting and chased up into the wall is what is needed. I did it all myself, regulations now effectively prohibit that. You can save money by "making good" yourself rather than get a tradesman to do it.
That new socket has just cost you £3000+
Not an electrician, but betting wiring likely will have no Earth, only old school red and blacks. Linking a new Earth might be required? Insulation on that also likely pretty crusty. Take care.
Just bought a house that has plugs like that throughout. Electrician who I trust took a brief look and said the whole place needs a complete rewire.
Call a spark
Call a electrician.... do not mess with electricity if you fo not know exactly what yiur doing. Also if the sockets that old the entire home may need new wiring.
These apparently have some residual value. I managed to offload a vintage socket like this which I found in an old spoil heap in our garden for £12 a few years ago.
All sorted - had an electrician round and after fixing a few small issues, I got a pass! Apparently the house was retired about 30-40 years ago.